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Hey everybody, it's Meredith, and welcome to Love Letters.
I'm excited to tell you that we are doing a lot of recording of news stories.
They are, I think, some of the most interesting ones we've ever told.
But during this break I wanted to give you some reruns, because we're lucky enough to have a catalog of stories that date back to 2018.
Sometimes I get updates from the people in those stories, and I want to share them.
And other times it's just that an older episode has stayed on my mind for reasons.
I want to start with an episode like that today, one that's close to my heart.
A few months ago I was writing a lot about the five-year anniversary of lockdown and where we are in our relationships five years after the start of COVID.
It made me think about those first days of the podcast when we realized okay, we're not going back to the office just yet.
A colleague of mine dropped off our podcast equipment.
He basically threw it on my lawn, and I learned to set it up in my basement.
One of the first stories I wanted to tell was in this new scary moment in life was how does one survive lockdown with a partner who is absolutely going to annoy them a lot?
I lived alone during lockdown and I was fine.
I was frightened about the pandemic, but I was okay by myself.
Meanwhile, my coupled friends were staring at each other all day, some of them in very small apartments, and I wanted to help them.
I found expert advice back then from a couple who'd grown used to spending most of the year not just alone but, like all caps, alone.
No outdoor picnics with friends, no constant Zooms to catch up.
This couple had long lived in the middle of nowhere, and they had lots to say about it.
I wanted to reshare this one with you because I think about it a lot.
This episode came out five years and one month ago.
As we listen, I think it's a nice moment to think about the pleasures of being able to reunite with others when we can and the gift of having good company that doesn't get sick of you.
Thanks for not getting sick of me.
Let's listen.
Kim Scriver was 18 and living in Salt Lake City when she and her friends decided to throw a party.
We were just making a big old punch in this big old trash barrel and we decided fruit would make it look more appealing.
So I sent my friends to the store.
Her friends came back from the Safeway with more than just fruit, though.
I love cowboys, but I wanted a hippie.
So they finally came home and said, we found you one.
I mean, they invited him with in mind, that looks like what Kim's looking for.
And this, in June 1978, was how Kim met Glenn.
Little did she know just how much time they'd be spending together in the years ahead.
We really didn't hit it off that well.
I don't, to this day, don't get Glenn's sense of humor.
It's the most infuriating thing, but I think that's what drew me to him.
So maybe opposites really do attract.
From the Boston Globe and PRX, this is Love Letters.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Here we are in week whatever of this mess.
I'm trying to figure out whether I should see my friends six feet apart on lawns.
I know many people are getting haircuts now, but I can't imagine doing that.
I've started watching Alias, which is great television entertainment to keep me in the house, but the characters are already making out.
And that makes me wonder when single people will be able to kiss in real life.
The inbox for my advice column is still filled with letters from people quarantining with a significant other.
All this time together has magnified all of their little issues.
And I empathize because partnership was not designed for 100% isolation.
Couples are supposed to be supported by community.
They're not supposed to feel like they're on an island.
But over the years, I have heard of couples who are good at this.
Couples who've traveled on a boat together alone or lived in remote places without it turning into the shining.
What can we learn from people who have figured out how to be good at seeing only each other?
How do they do it?
To answer this, I wanted to talk to this kind of couple.
So I found Kim and Glenn Scriver.
About 15 miles outside of Aspen, Colorado, there lies a gorgeous mountain lake.
It's called Grizzly Reservoir.
Nestled among pine trees and snowy peaks, the reservoir is part of an elaborate mountain water system that supplies drinking water to cities like Colorado Springs and Pueblo.
For a dozen years, Kim and Glenn have lived and worked at Grizzly Reservoir as its caretakers.
It falls to them to keep the water flowing.
Here's Glenn.
It collects 45 square miles of drainage on the upper Colorado.
And we bring it all into our reservoir here and then put it through a nine and a half foot tunnel, four miles under the continental divide, and supply water to the Eastern slope of Colorado.
Our only job up here is to collect water and get it through the tunnel.
Their day-to-day tasks shift depending on the season.
Winter means a lot of plowing roads, Grizzly sits above 10,000 feet.
They get 300 to 400 inches of snow every year, Glenn says.
In warmer months, they control the water coming off the Rockies.
They maintain the grounds.
It's always just breathtaking.
The first thing we wake up we go to the kitchen window and we look out and see the reservoir and see what the water's doing if it's high or if it's low.
We always check the weather.
One thing I've noticed I I'm kind of occasionally hot headed.
It's you get real angry and like storm out of the house, you know, and you just look around and it's, it's immediately calms you.
It's a blessed place to live without a doubt.
Kim and Glenn are physically isolated from civilization for weeks at a time, sometimes even longer.
For most of the year, they are only looking at each other.
In other words, they were into social distancing way before it was cool.
I mean, as far as dealing with the isolation, we're just used to it and it just seems normal to us.
Their story starts back in the late 1970s with that party Kim and her friends had in Salt Lake City.
I guess I was 20 years old and just with a couple of my buddies at Safeway getting some steaks and saw some girls and we went over and talked to them and they were just like hey, we're having a party over at our apartment.
We went over there and there was I don't know 50 people there and I saw Kim and was kind of smitten and so
Like a party goes, it dwindled off and went on and on.
Three o'clock in the morning, she and I were the only ones left there, sitting in a hallway talking to each other.
And that's how it all started.
We had a lot of the same values.
We're just earthy people.
You could tell right away.
We loved hiking, fishing, you know, our biggest dates.
At first, we're just, you know, on his old beat up.
Motorcycle, riding for hours and hours and exploring the mountains of Utah.
Kim and Glenn get married and move to the plains of southeastern Colorado.
Glenn builds them a house.
They raise five kids.
For vacations, they gravitate west to the Rockies.
It would be like just a spiritual experience really coming to the mountains.
In Colorado, you always wonder, what's on the other side of that mountain?
You know, so you go and find out.
And we finally bumped into Grizzly Reservoir and we just knew we wanted I don't know, just a knowing like oh man, how do you get that job?
So I started writing letters to the board of directors that run this company, telling them we were interested in the job.
And that went on for like 10 years.
And so when the job opening came up, they immediately just called us because, you know, we really wanted to get up here and thought it was a pretty neat place to be.
They still have one kid at home when they make the move, a son in seventh grade.
But after he graduates from high school, it's just Kim and Glenn, no one else for miles.
The nest is empty.
It takes them two and a half hours to pick up their mail.
They have to generate their own power.
And going to the store requires a lot of advanced planning.
I was in the Colorado Springs yesterday and I came back with $800 worth of groceries.
So we kind of load up, you know, and then the only hard thing is fresh stuff like lettuce and salad and that kind of stuff.
But other than that, you know, we're pretty much stocked for the summer.
They do have internet, which they use to make phone calls.
Kim can be on facebook and stay connected to her children and 14 grandchildren.
In the winter they're able to drive out and visit the grandkids, and in summer the grandkids can come to them.
There's been a few times that we cannot get out of here.
I mean avalanches fall down and bury the road and we're stuck here For three weeks.
Last year we could not get out at all.
How long do you normally go without seeing anyone apart from your wife?
Like how many weeks?
Our longest stretch that we actually don't see anybody is right now is like through the end of April, through maybe three weeks into June.
Because the tunnel, there'll be so much water running that we can't shut the tunnel off.
So we can't go out that way.
And we can drive down the canyon and go through a bunch of highway gates and things like that and get to Aspen.
But that's kind of a pain.
So actually... When they're not working, Kim and Glen say, they garden.
They snowmobile.
They talk about family and politics.
Glen dabbles in painting.
Kim likes to read.
They build furniture.
It's like their version of quarantine sourdough.
You can bend willows into chairs and, you know, love seats and things like tables.
So we build kind of willow furniture.
That's pretty fun to do and kept us busy.
My husband can make anything out of wood, you know, from a house to a spoon.
It's just amazing.
What do you think it is about her that makes her a good partner for this kind of life?
That she can handle the isolation.
You know, I mean, honestly, a lot of people come up here on tours and things like that.
And all the guys are like, geez, that's a great job.
I want it.
And every one of their wives are like, no way.
I'd never live anywhere like that.
So I don't know.
You just got to have something inside you that where you can live isolated.
It works out pretty good with us.
We've been up here 12 or 13 years now and still going strong.
Kim and Glenn are different, though.
Both say Kim is far more social and outgoing.
When we used to live in sort of civilization and stuff and we'd go to a company party or something like that, I'd either be like a stick in the mud, unless I was pretty drunk.
Then maybe I'd talk some or get around or whatever.
But other than that, I just am fairly antisocial and that's not how Kim is, so.
Now fast forward through the commercials.
When you tape a show, it's the worst thing that ever happened to me, because I'm a talker and Glenn's really not.
So usually, you know, in the evening when we're tired, it's like you throw all those little things in on the commercial.
Well, now he fast forwards through the commercial.
So that to me is a nice way to say, uh, quit talking so much.
They've had to learn how to be alone together and how to be apart when they need space.
You don't leave the house and go to work and see your spouse at the end of the day.
We're working together.
Some days, just a break is good.
But then even if the break's too long, it's like, no, I don't like it.
I mean, we truly have an advantage over each other, there's no doubt, because he knows every button.
Some of them he's even swore, I'll never push that button again.
And I've sworn, okay, yeah, that's enough.
I'll never, but we do, you know.
So what can Kim and Glenn teach us about how to be alone, but as a couple?
We'll be back with that after a short break.
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Okay, we're back.
One thing Glenn and Kim say they figured out about living together in isolation.
They really cannot afford to hold grudges.
I think everybody argues with other people and when there's nobody else, it's all you know, kind of aimed at each other once in a while or whatever.
But you just got to smile and move on.
Do you find that you've gotten better at that over the years?
Yeah, I do.
And I mean, seriously, when you're somewhere like this, you really don't have a choice.
It's either figure out how to blow it off and get along and go do something else for a while and whatever, and let things go.
And then the next thing you know, it turns around and everything's good.
Up here, the worst thing is if you get stuck on a disagreement between you two.
You don't go off to your office and talk to your girlfriends, or he didn't go off and be away from you for a while.
So you just have to literally deal with okay, I'm still dealing with this person every moment of every day, and not be how we can be when we're hurt or sad or angry.
They have two cabins on the property. which gives them an escape when they need it.
Glenn can watch a murder mystery on TV in his cabin, and Kim can watch a sitcom in hers.
You can drive down the canyon and act like well, I guess I'll just go camp down here till it gets really cold.
Then you come home thinking surely you were worried to death, you know?
And he's asleep on the couch.
I like to think he cried himself to sleep, but actually he thought oh, she'll be home when she's done pouting.
You play the game, dude.
That's what you do.
The relationship's the most important game you'll probably ever play.
Kim's wisdom here, I think, is particularly relevant.
Many couples today who may be spending way more time together than they ever have.
She says she's learned not to confuse a small fight or a moment of frustration or sadness for some fundamental problem in the marriage.
I'm going to feel like, oh, what did I ever marry you for?
Occasionally.
And that's okay.
That doesn't mean your love's gone and your marriage is gone.
It means, wow, maybe we need to Just get away from each other for a while.
If you're going to stay married, you have to be willing to hate them as much as you love them and still stay.
Because it only feels like hate.
It's not.
But if you just act on that, then it's over.
But if you write it out, you'll realize, no, that was hurt feelings.
That was just pure, I'm madder than hell.
That is still my advice.
It's cruel maybe, but it's true.
So, first of all, I love how she explains all of that, that it might feel like hate, but really it's not.
I also love this idea of putting your feelings on paper.
Kim works to process what she's experiencing with her partner and so that she doesn't lose track of reality.
What I do is, if I'm having an extremely hard time, I write it out boo-hoo for me, you know, and get it all out there.
I always, in my mind, I'm writing to God, I think, not to anybody.
I'm just writing.
And then I'll go back and read it a week or two later.
And it's therapy because okay, I'm not angry or want to kill you right now.
You know, and I use that lightly
But when I read it, okay, it refocused me back, but now things are better.
So I realized, okay, that was a hard time.
Glad I didn't act on, you know, just making it bigger than it is.
You work through it and hang in there.
I mean, just hang in because if you truly love each other, it's going to get back to good.
I just believe that with all my heart.
Kim doesn't keep these personal reflections.
After they've served their purpose, she burns them or tears them up.
I try to have serious talks with Glenn sometimes.
And he just I think it's a man-woman thing, but man is like I don't want to talk my problems to death.
And we're like, oh gosh, we've only talked about it three times.
So, you know, which one of us is wrong?
Depends what day it is and who won the fight.
Me and Glenn are devoted to each other.
I think, and we've been through so much together.
You know, raising five kids alone, that is in itself, those teenager years are just what they say.
And we've liked the same things.
We're just We're very compatible.
Glenn and Kim are both in their early 60s.
I asked them how long they want to do this job and how long they could stay isolated.
The last two guys died up here, more or less.
I mean, they were still working here and had heart attacks and things.
So that's kind of been our plan.
We really don't have a plan after this.
I mean, I know we have to make one one of these years, but...
For now, we're happy and it's good and we love this lifestyle.
And I don't know.
Being up in the mountains like this where it's peace, and quiet and fresh air and all that, I can't.
I don't know, I can't imagine doing anything else.
This summer, Kim and Glenn are celebrating their 40th anniversary.
It's worked for us, you know, for 40 years.
It hasn't all been marvelous.
But I wouldn't give it up, I mean, for anything.
Thank you so much for talking to us.
Thanks.
It was my pleasure.
Well, it's been fun talking with you, Meredith.
I hope everybody's doing great out there through this COVID.
Keep your relationships together because you don't want to look back and realize one of the saddest things to America has took you away from the person you love the most.
Love Letters is a production of the Boston Globe and PRX.
Today's episode was produced by Scott Hellman.
Ned Porter does our audio mixing, sound design, and mastering.
Devin Smith is our audience engagement manager.
Special thanks to Brian McGrory and Linda Henry.
Our music is from APM.
So we're working on our fourth season of Love Letters right now, and we're looking for love and relationship lessons that you learned at all different ages.
It can be any lesson and any age.
If you want to tell us your story, email us at lovelettersatboston.com.
You can also find us on Twitter at Love Letters Blog.
And if you like the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
Learn more at loveletters.show.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Thanks for listening and stay safe.
