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Okay, let's get started.
Hey, Cooper.
Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan.
Hey, Cooper.
How are you?
Good.
How are you?
Okay, I'm going to ask you to pretend to be excited to see me.
Because right now, you just look like you're in the eight items or less aisle.
Okay.
And you're just, I mean, I want you to just manufacture, right?
Just to manufacture a little like, wow.
Just be excited.
Be so excited.
Yeah, no, seriously, how are you, Cooper?
I am really good.
I am so excited to be here.
Okay.
Well, now you look like you're a hostage who's saying the stuff you've been told to say by your captors?
Which kind of way you are.
Where are you coming from, Cooper?
I live in D.C.
OK, OK.
And tell us a little bit about yourself, Cooper.
All I know is you're Cooper.
You're from D.C.
You appear to be a young fellow.
Are you in your late 20s?
Are you in your 30s?
Give us an age.
I'm 26 and I am a Civil War historian.
Oh, my God.
Okay.
I'm glad to talk to you.
I'm a bit of a Civil War.
I'm a bit of a history buff.
And Civil War is one of the areas that I'm kind of interested in.
Have you been a Civil War buff your whole life or is this something you came to later on?
I have.
I've been a history buff my whole life.
When I was in third grade, my teacher wrote on my report card that I watched too much History Channel.
Wow.
Held back a year.
Enough history!
Yeah, which basically meant I couldn't shut up.
And then it was a fifth-grade field trip to Gettysburg that really got me onto Civil War, and I haven't really stopped since.
Yeah, Gettysburg will get you.
I've visited many battlefields and my wife drew the line when we were in Georgia and I tried to make her come see Andersonville, which is the famous confederate prison where they kept a lot of uh, northern prisoners, and they all died of dysentery.
And my wife was like wait, where are we driving to now?
And i said we're off to andersonville and she said what happened there?
Thousands of people died of diarrhea.
And she said nope, not on our honeymoon, not on our honeymoon, So I haven't been there.
I blame her.
But Gettysburg, that is it's incredible to walk that area.
It was such a pivotal battle and to walk that area and kind of you can see the topography still the same.
So you can kind of get a feel for why things played out the way they did.
It is.
It's really amazing.
And I get the chance to lead students on tours there every year.
And you can tell not all of them are really into the military history, but I think the human interest stories are really how you get to the students.
Like when I, when I lead a tour of, shall I say, older people, they really want to know the nuts and bolts of where was the right flank of the third Alabama?
But when you're engaging with high school and college students, it's the human interest stories that like really blow them away at a place like that.
Yeah.
You tell them here's where Taylor Swift reloaded her musket.
Yeah.
I would just lie to the students.
I would just plug in all kinds of the latest pop stars and reality stars just to get them interested.
Yeah.
Here's where the real housewives of New Jersey let it charge.
Cooper, you're allowed to lie if it keeps them interested.
No, you're not.
No, you're not, Cooper.
You can't lie about the Civil War.
Um, can I ask you a question?
One of my favorite books, like one of my desert Island books.
If I was allowed like five books on a desert Island uh, one of them would be killer angels by Michael Schara, which I think is one of the most beautiful.
It's a novel, but it's historically accurate to the Battle of Gettysburg and it takes place over three days and all the main players are in there.
And I've read that book maybe seven, eight, nine times.
Wow.
And I just find it haunting and beautiful.
Killer Angels, Michael Shira.
You don't even have to be a Civil War buff to find that a powerful book, I think.
Do you agree with me?
Yeah, I read that when I was very young.
It's a good one.
Oh, okay, so you're so smart.
You read it when you were, you're like, yes, I read that when I was two.
You read it just before everybody poops.
With dysentery.
Yeah, exactly.
You got to bring it back.
OK, well, so I like you.
We have similar interests.
I think this date's going well so far, Cooper.
And you live, you know I would think it'd be hard not to get into some of the history, because if you live in DC and you live in that area, you know you can't walk 15 feet without being on ground that was somehow involved in something historic.
Right.
And I felt the same way in Massachusetts growing up.
It was all about the Revolutionary War.
You could take a trip to Lexington and conquer.
Even if you're walking around Boston or in the hills around Boston Bunker Hill, it's all stuff where history played itself out.
So I think that helped fuel my interest in history was just that I kind of grew up around it.
Yeah, absolutely the same for me.
I mean, I grew up a little bit north of Gettysburg.
So I kind of grew up in an area where Civil War history was, you know, all around me.
And then moving to D.C. for grad school, obviously, I'm next to the archives.
I'm immersed in history all the time.
So almost almost to the point where I take it for granted, but I try not to.
So tell me a little bit about your life.
So we've covered the Civil War part.
Tell us more about Cooper.
What's your last name, Cooper?
Winger.
Okay, Cooper Winger.
Tell us about Cooper Winger, the man.
What's going on?
What's happening?
I guess my two hobbies besides, I love reading and writing.
I love teaching.
That kind of is an extension of my work.
So that's a big part of who I am.
I
One of my favorite things professionally that I do is each summer I do a summer program for rising high school seniors.
It's aimed at first-generation college students.
So I actually get to live in the dorms with these students.
I'm like their TA, their RA.
I'm like basically their glorified babysitter.
So I get to kind of help them transition to doing college-level coursework.
But at the same time I have to like – just be like the adult in the room and make sure they look both ways before they cross the street.
So it's kind of one of the fun things I get to do.
I get to be really silly.
I get to do like PowerPoint night with them.
I have a fan favorite, Nicolas Cage PowerPoint.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
So every now and then, when you guys really want to just rip the lid off this thing and go totally loco, you have PowerPoint night.
I know.
How old are these kids, by the way?
They're 16, 17.
So we got to keep them, you know, like, you know, fun and not crazy entertainment.
Yeah, but when do you get to the fun part, Cooper?
Or crazy entertainment.
Yeah.
When...
No, they get to design the PowerPoint.
So they design a PowerPoint about some crazy topic they pick.
And then we as the staff also design our own PowerPoint.
So I design one about how Nicolas Cage blew his fortune and they seem to like that one.
Okay.
All right.
Wait a minute.
I'm liking this now.
How did Nicolas Cage blow his fortune?
A series of very strange purchases, like a dinosaur skeleton that ended up being repossessed by Interpol, I think.
You know, there's nothing worse than when a skeleton you bought is repossessed.
It's one thing when they come take your Maserati, but when they take your skeleton, If I had a dime,
Yes, I didn't.
He he bought some bones and then they were controversial.
Maybe they were even counterfeit.
Who can say?
I don't know.
But look, Nick Cage, terrific actor, great body of work.
But maybe what you're saying is we shouldn't go to him for investment counsel.
Maybe not.
That's kind of the theme of the presentation.
Okay.
Well, okay.
It sounds like you guys are having a good time.
The PowerPoint.
The PowerPoint, yeah.
What about your life?
What's going on in your social life?
I live in D.C.
I'm in the final stage of my Ph.D. program, so I am kind of, like, on the job market.
So I'm, like... potentially moving anywhere in the country.
So everything's kind of up in the air right now.
But it's kind of a good position to be in, because I don't really like.
The choices are in some ways like out of my hands.
So I'm kind of, you know, just kind of seeing where things go right now.
Okay, but what about like dating?
Are you on the apps like all the young people?
Are you on the apps?
No, I am single.
I try not to bring up the Civil War stuff on dates.
Wait a minute.
I said, are you on the apps?
And you went, no, I'm single.
Well, I'm married and I'm on the app.
And I am cleaning up.
I'm like, Liza!
Kiki in Palm Springs is into it.
You're single, but you're not on the apps.
No, I am on the apps.
Okay.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
All right.
And you want to kind of hide the Civil War stuff for now?
I think let it out in moderation.
I don't want to scare somebody on a first date.
You know, it's kind of like I almost imagine giving a date.
Like you know the cards they give you in like a soccer game, the refs like they hold up a card.
If you do something like commit a foul.
Sure.
Like that's what I need for.
Like when I start going off about the civil war, I need somebody to just be, like you're cut off.
Okay.
Like this is your warning.
So Cooper, this could be bad advice, but I couldn't disagree more.
I say you lead the civil war and go hard.
I say yeah, I say you should.
You should be dressed on the apps as a civil war soldier with the, with the kooky beard and the musket.
And you should talk to them and say, like, I just got back from battle.
I was in the hornet's nest.
The fire was coming pretty fast and thick.
Why is he talking like that?
You know what?
What?
Civil War reenactment.
Yes.
You can meet someone at a Civil War reenactment.
You've done a Civil War reenactment.
Sure, I did.
I did.
Yeah, we did it down in Atlanta.
Yeah.
That's where I met Liza.
She was a corpse.
We were two corpses right outside Atlanta.
And I just liked the way that she was laid out, you know?
Oh, dear.
Laid out.
And we couldn't move much, but I was like, hey.
And she was like, hi.
And I'm like, I got shot in the chest.
And she's like, I got a belly wound.
And I'm like, those are bad.
Those get infected.
And one thing led to another.
Yeah.
And yeah.
So have you done any Civil War reenactments?
I have.
When I was like 12, I was conscripted into one for 10 minutes and I quit.
You can't be drafted.
I'm sorry.
You can't be drafted in a fake war.
No.
Yeah, how?
How?
I think one of the reenactors like had to leave for some something.
He just got in his car and drove away.
So they gave me a uniform and they said like, carry this baked potato from here to the cannon and put it in the cannon or pretend to.
And we're going to bake potato.
What kind of reenactment is this?
You know what I like?
I like a no starch reenactment.
No starches on my reenactment.
That's hilarious.
Well, I was a very odd child and I remembered writing a play about Lincoln's assassination at Ford Theater in the third grade and making Scotty McGregor play Lincoln and I played Booth and we staged it in the gymnasium so I could yell sick Semper, Tyrannis and jump from the top.
They had bars that went up to the ceiling for gymnastics and I leapt and then crawled into a little crawl space and hid.
And the play lasted like three minutes.
And the whole third grade- I just love you in Booth, too.
He's so dark.
I know.
I know.
Why did you choose to be Booth?
Because I wanted Scotty McGregor to be Lincoln.
I thought he was a good- And I wanted to make that leap.
Six Semper Tyrannis and then leap.
And and then I crawled into a little hole and I had to stay there because there was no way out, until all the students left.
So I crawled into a little hole at the Michael Baldwin School in Brookline, Massachusetts.
Were you in costume?
Yes.
I had a little mustache and I had a little overcoat.
And I think my Derringer was just a baked potato because that's the go to in Civil War reenactments.
So I killed Lincoln with a baked potato.
But yeah, I don't know why I remember that very well.
Scotty McGregor asking him in the playground, can you be my Lincoln?
He was like, sure.
What do I do?
You just sit there and watch a pretend play and I shoot you.
And then I climb into a hole and hide there until the whole auditorium leaves.
So I'm a weird guy.
And I like you.
I like you, Cooper.
Oh, my God.
Well, I don't think you have to hide the fact that you have these interests.
You seem like a really nice person.
I think, you know, I think you can be open about it.
Yeah, because what if you meet someone that's just as into it as you are?
That would be surprising.
Would you either want that or do you kind of like to keep it for yourself?
I mean, to be honest, I don't think that's ideal in a partner.
I think if there's too much similar interest, I don't know that I want to hear about the Civil War from somebody else.
I like to listen to myself talk about it all day, but I don't know if I want to hear somebody else's voice talking about it.
I just love you saying if I hear one more word about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, I'm going to lose it.
I don't, I just, you seem like an exemplary young fellow, doesn't he?
I mean, this is the kind of person we need more of.
You're teaching, you're helping people, you're obsessed with the Civil War.
These are all the qualities that I find mandatory in a human being.
Where are you right now in your house?
Because there's nothing hanging on the wall.
I know.
I actually stress so much about my Zoom background.
Basically I just moved apartments so I was going to do like a bookshelf, so I looked very professorial.
But just life got the better of me, so you're getting the hostage background.
It's okay.
I like how the light switch is painted the same color as the wall.
Thank you.
I thought it was a nice touch.
And the shelf rackets too.
Yeah.
Everything blends into everything else.
But man, does your green sweater pop.
That's for sure.
It's going well.
It is going well.
Cooper, do you have a question for Conan?
I do.
So I'm curious.
I know you have a big love of the Civil War.
If you were a Civil War general, I want to know what skill sets or liabilities you would bring to the battlefield.
In real life.
I think my cowardice, I'm going to say as a plus.
How so?
Well, it's very good to save lives.
And the best way to do that is to lead everybody away from the fight.
Now, would I be leading them so much as just running first?
I don't know.
I think I'd be really good around a campfire at night, you know, spinning a yarn, entertaining people.
And then the next day when the fighting broke out, they'd notice I didn't I don't see him either.
I don't know where he went.
Every night you show up.
Maybe he got killed.
But then I'm back at the fire that night and I'm like I tell you, did you see the way Lee took off on his horse?
Oh, that right flank.
He ran faster than a man.
That right flank crumpled, like you know, and then I would just be making jokes and stuff and I'd be laughing again.
Next day, I'm gone.
No one knows where I am because I found one hollow tree nobody knows about.
Just like Booth, you're in your little hole.
I'm in my little hole.
Like any threatened animal, I like to just go find a little hole and hide in it until everything calms down.
But I think I'd be a lot of fun around the campfire.
I really do.
What about you?
How do you, what are your, do you think you'd make a good leader?
Let's say we get in a time machine, you go back to 1863, Battle of Gettysburg.
Of course, summer, you know, you're there in Pennsylvania.
Do you think you'd do a good job?
Well, I mean considering that I quit reenacting after 10 minutes because the uniform was too hot.
You know, probably not.
But give me a baked potato.
Sure.
I mean, I could probably launch that thing.
Right.
OK.
And of course, and I hate to bring it up, but, you know, most soldiers did die of disease back then.
So, you know, what is that?
What's your point?
My point is that, Cooper, you'd get real sick real fast.
Yeah.
Probably, yeah.
And me, I wouldn't because I'd be far from the battlefield, eating wholesome, just a lot of apples.
You'd be at some hot springs, convalescing.
I find a five-star resort that's adjacent to the battle, and I've got... Binoculars?
No, no, no.
What do they put on their eyes in spas?
What do they put?
Cucumbers?
I've got cucumbers on my eyes.
Stop bringing up potatoes.
Anyway, well, I wish you well.
Cooper, you seem like a good guy.
I really do.
I think you're a good guy.
And I think, you haven't said it yet, but I can tell you really admire me and think I'm a great man.
And I'm just gonna fill that in and you can just keep nodding with about as little enthusiasm as I've ever seen.
I admire you so much.
I'd love for you to blurb my next book, but for it to be something totally unrelated to the book.
I'll do that.
Sure.
Like this book about the Civil War.
This had the greatest tomato soup recipe ever.
Done.
I'll do it for you.
We'll reach out to you.
We'll contact you.
What's your next book going to be about?
My next book is about the destruction of slavery during the Civil War.
Oh, good.
Well, you probably don't want to have, like I don't want a funny blurb on the back of a From a white, the whitest guy ever.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm the whitest guy in the world.
Did you see Conan's comedy blurb on the back of this book on slavery?
That seemed inappropriate.
I think you're trying to destroy my career, Cooper.
I'll wait till the next book after that.
But I do wish you all the best.
I think teachers are doing God's work.
I really do.
And so bless you, sir.
And I hope we meet in person one day on a fake battlefield.
Sounds great.
If you ever want to tour Gettysburg.
Okay.
All right.
We'll figure it out.
All right.
Take care.
Thanks a lot.
Bye.
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