From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
The show for people with big opinions.
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best.
Today, it's a clash of the critters, a bash of the beasts, a tussle of two cuties.
It's pigs versus frogs.
One's a happy hopper, the other a mighty fine swine.
Which animal will take the trophy?
Let's find out.
Here to go big for Team Pig is writer and archaeologist Anna Goldfield.
Sitting in the mud there, my buds.
Pigs.
And he's not fibbing about loving amphibians.
It's actor, voice actress, and improviser Billy Soko.
It's time to ribbit.
Ha ha ha.
And in the judges' seat today, we've got Emmy from New York City.
She's into debate, theater, and everything chocolate.
She's got a dog named Storm, and she's co-hosted our sister pod, Brains On, not once, but twice.
Hi, Emmy.
Hi.
So you and I go way back at this point.
What was the first episode that we did together?
First episode we did together was Owl About Owls.
I was in fourth grade.
Okay.
Yeah, that's a long, because now what grade are you in?
Eighth.
Eighth grade, so four years ago.
Do you still love owls as much as you did back then, or have you kind of moved on to other things?
Probably not as much as I did back then, but I still do love them.
That's great.
You love animals, clearly.
So this is going to be an exciting debate for you to judge today.
So you are a debater now.
Yes.
So what advice do you have for our debaters today?
If you use logical fallacies...
I will not cast you as the winner.
Ooh, okay.
Oh, boy.
No logical fallacies allowed.
And in addition to debating, you're also a performer in theater.
What is your most recent production you've been in?
So right now, I'm doing The Sound of Music.
I'm playing the role of Maria, so I'm super excited for that.
Oh, my goodness.
How do you solve a problem like Maria?
So exciting.
Break a leg.
Tell us how it goes.
I can't wait.
Thank you.
Well, will Emmy side with Team Frog or Team Pig?
Only one way to find out.
But first, here are the rules.
Every debate consists of four rounds the Declaration of Greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack and the final six.
After each round, our judge Emmy, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too.
Mark down your points as you listen.
At the end of the show, head to our website smashboomorg, and vote for whichever team you think won.
Okay, Anna, Billy, and Emmy, are you ready?
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness.
In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side.
Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
We flipped a coin, and Anna, you're up first.
Time for you to let it all out for the one with a snout.
This little piggy went to market, this little piggy stayed home and this average-sized human is here to tell you all about pigs.
Wait, when do I get to go wee-wee-wee all the way home?
Oh, littlest piggy, sorry to cut you off, but I was only using that old kid's rhyme as a literary device, you know, to illustrate things that I was trying to Fine.
I'll just wait here till you finish it.
Okay.
But I was sort of done.
I wasn't planning on finishing the rhyme.
No, no, no.
It's fine.
Just go ahead.
Okay.
The domestic pigs that we know today have been around for about 9000 years, with an oink-oink here and an oink-oink there and an oink-oink on every continent except Antarctica.
Wait, are you singing a song while trying to say there are no pigs in Antarctica?
Yes.
Again, I was just using the old MacDonald tune to make a point.
It's less fun when I have to explain it.
Okay, go on.
I'll just wait.
You're doing great.
Anyway, I'm here to tell you pigs are cute, clean, and smart.
But for some reason, they've gotten a bad rap.
Probably thanks to big frog lobbyists who keep flinging mud on pigs' good name.
Ribbit.
Us frogs can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a big frog lobby.
Ribbit.
Ribbit.
Speaking of flinging mud, pigs are not filthy.
As long as they're given enough space, they'll use separate areas for eating, sleeping and potty business.
And like me, they prefer having their eating spot as far away as possible from their bathroom spot.
You might have seen pictures of pigs rolling around in mud or heard pig pen or pig sty used to describe a gross dirty place.
Again, slander, because pigs actually need mud to keep them cool and protect their skin.
See, they don't sweat and they are one of the few other animals besides humans who can get sunburned.
Mud is just part of their skincare routine.
Okay, my pretty piglets, before you go out and slay the day away, I want you to make sure you slather on your mud.
This all-natural, organic sunscreen is safe, easy to apply and you can make it all at home with just some dirt and water.
Skincare hack!
Oink, oink!
But I think my favorite thing about pigs is how smart they are.
Pigs have really good memories.
Like they can remember places where they've found extra food in the past and they'll go check on those places sometimes to see if more snacks are there.
So relatable.
They can also recognize other pigs and even people.
And scientists have found pigs actually get happy when they see people they like.
And pigs recognize themselves in the mirror, which is something most animals don't do.
It's a sign of intelligence and self-awareness.
Anna!
Anna!
Is it time for me to go wee-wee-wee all the way home yet?
Oh, you're still here?
What does that even mean, going wee-wee-wee?
You know what?
It doesn't matter.
Just hold tight.
Where was I?
Oh, yes, as if real-life pigs weren't cool enough, pigs also dominate pop culture.
Like the Three Little Pigs, who taught us that one out of every three pigs is good at building wolf-proof houses.
Impressive.
There's Babe the Pig, who learns to be a sheep herder.
So talented.
And Wilbur from Charlotte's Web.
He's plucky.
Plus the most glamorous oink star of all, Miss Piggy.
Iconic.
So, despite what you may have heard, pigs are not dirty, they're not dim-witted and they are anything but boring.
In fact, these clever, clean companions put the oink in yoink.
I just snatched the win from frogs.
So, hear me out.
Choose the snout.
A curly tail never fails.
Take it from me.
Choose the one that goes... Now's your moment.
All the way home.
Oui, oui, oui.
Yes, yes, yes for pigs.
Emi, what stood out to you about Anna's argument?
I liked her use of the examples from pop culture, as well as explaining how pigs are smart and clean at the same time.
Very good.
Okay, Billy, it is time for your rebuttal.
Tell us why Anna's arguments are nothing but hogwash.
You got 30 seconds and your time starts now.
Yes.
So, pigs.
I mean, I guess you could say pigs are smart, but to be able to see and understand yourself in a mirror doesn't for me equate intelligence.
What it equates is vanity.
Okay.
So if we're being real about this, I think pigs are very vain.
And that is not a quality in an upstanding animal or creature.
I would also say that history tells us that pigs are clearly not the best.
Clearly not the best what?
Oh, my gosh.
I will never know.
We'll never know.
I mean, just because you see yourself and recognize yourself in the mirror doesn't mean you're into it.
I just want to put that out there.
Pigs could be like, ooh, I should wipe that little smudge of mud off my snout.
Well, I've seen so many pigs and they're always looking in the mirror.
That's what I see.
Frogs don't need mirrors because they have the reflection in the water all the time, everywhere.
Oh.
Well, debatable.
While you think about what we've heard so far, we're going to take a quick break.
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Okay, let's get back to the debate.
Billy, it's time to hear your declaration of greatness.
Hop to it and tell us all about Frog's...
This debate isn't fair because frogs are the coolest.
You couldn't find a cooler animal if you tried.
To prove it, I hired this guy.
Yo, Rick Lickley here.
Cool animal tracker.
Here's my card.
Uh, this is an ice cube?
Because I'm that cool.
Rick here agreed to try and find an animal cooler than a frog.
Easy.
Finding cool critters is my passion.
And putting on these slick sunglasses is my fashion.
But you're already wearing sunglasses.
I wear two pairs.
Now, time to ride off on my chopper cycle and find some animals.
It's part motorcycle and part helicopter.
Later!
Man, that guy is cool.
But so are frogs.
Like a chopper cycle, frogs are two in one.
They are amphibians, so they can live on land and water.
Frogs are stacked with superpowers like this.
For starters, they are super jumpers.
The record is held by the South African sharp-nosed frog.
It can jump over 17 feet, which is more than 90 times its body length.
That would be like you going more than a football field in a single leap.
The quarterback has the ball.
He's looking for a pass.
And is that a kid flying across the gridiron?
I have frog powers!
They have super tongues, too, which shoot out faster than you can blink.
And the tongues hit the prey with a force several times stronger than gravity.
Honestly, Peter Parker should have been bitten by a radioactive frog, because these creatures do it all.
Frogs also have the coolest life cycle.
They hatch from eggs as little tadpoles, which are fish-like critters with tails and no limbs.
And they grow and slowly get legs, arms, lose the tail, and eventually become full-fledged frogs.
The word for this is metamorphosis, which is something you probably learned studying frogs.
Meanwhile, pigs are born as little pigs and just become bigger pigs.
Oh, boring.
Hey, Broseph.
I found the coolest animal.
Check it out.
It's got see-through skin.
Dope, am I right?
Very.
But that's just a glass frog.
I love how you can see its organs, though.
How about this one?
It can soar between tree branches thanks to its wing-like feet.
Nice.
But that's a Costa Rican flying tree frog.
Ah, butterscotch.
Back to the chopper cycle.
BRB, Bromeo.
Frogs are also cool crooners.
I mean, an oink is fine.
But frogs make music.
The Rainbow Connection?
Ha!
What a classic.
But sorry, Kermit.
I'm talking about the chorus of croaks you hear on warm spring and summer nights.
Sigh.
Hey, Deuterino, I'm back with a seriously cool animal.
It looks like a rock covered in moss, but it's alive.
See?
Whoa, you found a Vietnamese mossy frog.
They are masters of camouflage.
What about this creature that looks like a rainbow?
You mean the red-eyed tree frog with its red eyes, yellow toes, and green and blue body?
These are both frogs.
But it's a good reminder that there are so many different kinds of croakers.
Ones with cool colors, ones that can survive in deserts, ones that are poisonous or ones that make neat pets.
Well, you were right.
I can't find an animal cooler than a frog.
So I'm going to do something else cool.
Admit I was wrong.
It's all good.
Frogs are just too cool.
They've got awesome powers, neat life cycles.
They make amazing sounds and come in so many rad varieties.
So if you want the okayest animal, pick a pig.
But for the coolest, it's got to be a frog.
Super frog.
I love it.
Okay, Emmy, what stood out to you about Billy's arguments?
I actually didn't realize that those frogs may be singing.
Very true.
And you love theater and singing.
Yes.
Maybe they're a bit of a ham.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
It is time for your rebuttal.
Tell us why frogs don't measure up to hogs.
You got 30 seconds and we're going to start it, right?
Now, frogs don't sing as much as they cat call.
It's a mating ritual.
And so when you hear frogs singing on a beautiful summer evening, what they're saying is hey girl hey, over and over.
And also pigs are great because humans domesticated them.
So they are tailor made to be companion animals and to be farm animals.
And we love them.
And they don't cat call.
They pig call.
It's just oinking.
Equal opportunity.
Males oink.
Females oink.
Everybody oinks.
And time.
Here an oink, there an oink.
Everywhere.
Oink, oink.
An oink, oink.
Just to clear the record, it's frog calling.
And, you know, I think a serenade is a really sweet gesture.
We do it, you know, people do it at weddings and, you know, in the movies.
All night.
Sometimes when you got to sing, you got to sing.
You know, you let your heart out.
And that's what frogs do, you know.
Break out the classics.
Yeah.
Okay, Emmy, you have heard our debaters and it's time to award some points.
Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over.
You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one team's jokes make you giggle?
Was another team's logic impeccable?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
Excellent.
Billy and Anna, how are you two feeling so far?
Pig-sided.
It's like a cat's got my frog tongue.
Overwhelmed with excitement.
Okay, it is time for a quick break.
Kick back in your sty or lounge on your lily pad.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
Well, would you look at that?
It's the bagged salad to my freezer lasagna, Taylor Lincoln.
And look right there.
It's the cheese cracker to my gas station pastry, Todd Douglas.
Hey, Todd, do you love babies?
Of course I do.
The way they coo and cuddle and, you know, poop themselves.
Ah, pretty precious, right?
But sometimes caring for an infant can make you forget things.
Like, what makes a strong argument?
Ooh, sounds like you've got some hot goss, Tay.
You bet I do.
I overheard two friends using a logical fallacy the other day, which makes your argument weak.
Take a listen.
I just love her so much.
She's the smartest baby in the whole wide world.
Do you ever wonder what she might become like when she's our age?
Only every single day.
I wonder if she's going to be a firefighter or a mortician or a florist.
No Graham, she's gonna be a senator.
A senator uh, that's interesting.
I guess i can see that she's got to be a senator or she won't be successful.
Whoa, that's not the only way to be successful.
Yeah, it is you're a senator or you failed in life two choices.
But we're her dads and neither of us are senators.
Exactly wow, low blow, alan Ouch.
Am I ever going to be successful in this life if I'm not a senator?
Yes, of course, Todd.
Allen was using a false dichotomy, also known as the black and white fallacy.
That's when someone makes it sound like there are only two choices, when actually there are lots of options.
So you're saying there are more career options than just being a senator or failing in life?
Exactly.
Thank goodness, because I've always wanted to be a video game tester.
Slash food critic.
Slash gerbil playground engineer.
And honestly, Taylor, I'm not willing to give up on my dreams.
Please don't ever give up, Todd.
The world needs another video game tester, food critic gerbil, playground engineer and it needs it very badly.
We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
Smash Boom Best You're listening to Smash Boom Best.
I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
And I'm your judge, Emmy.
And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners, like this one from Jack.
Hi, I'm Jack.
And my debate topic is Medusa versus Harry.
Medusa versus Hydra, a debate of mythic proportions.
We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Jack thinks should win.
But now it's back to this debate, pigs versus frogs.
It's time for round two, the...
Micro round.
It's time for a fact off.
In this micro round, Anna and Billy will each get three chances to make a micro argument backed by a cool fact or idea.
Anna went first in the last round, so Billy, you start us off.
Let's hear your first fact.
Okay, I don't know if you know this, but did you know that brightly colored frogs aren't just stylish?
They're sending a sign to predators that says, back off, buddy.
That's because many animals with bright flashy patterns are poisonous, and animals quickly learn to leave them alone.
You see?
Frogs fashion and function.
Ooh.
So when you domesticate animals, something happens that tickles the human brain in a really fun way, because the snout tends to get shorter, the eyes get bigger, the ears get floppy and all of a sudden oh, they're so cute.
We are wired to think that pigs are adorable because we domesticated them, and I think that's neat.
Well, listen, I'm about to put the O-G in F-R-O-G.
That spells frog, by the way.
Because there's evidence that frogs go way back roaming the earth for over 200 million years, at least as long as the dinosaurs.
How can something so ancient be so cute?
Well, let's ask a frog.
Do you have one?
Yeah.
Hold on one second.
Okay.
Hey!
Oh!
No, they're shy.
Aww.
Aww.
Follow-up fact.
Pigs can swim.
So, like, maybe they could do some laps with frogs.
I feel like that would be nice.
I would like to see that, personally.
Frogs can be cool as ice.
Almost.
The wood frog can live in the chilly Arctic Circle with 65% of its body frozen.
Its blood uses stuff called glucose to torn into a kind of antifreeze and keeps the important parts from freezing, while the rest of the frog becomes a frogsicle.
But it's still there.
It's still alive.
Isn't that rad?
That is very cool.
I would like to follow that up by saying bristles from wild pigs or boars were used as toothbrushes and shaving brushes for a really long time.
And paintbrushes.
So pigs make art.
With their hair.
I love it.
Okay, Emmy, what stood out to you about these micro-arguments?
So the facts are really interesting.
I didn't know that frogs were around for over 200 million years.
Well, I sort of knew about the pig bristles, but I still found it interesting that they were used for such a long time.
All right, Emmy.
Well, it's time to award a point, but don't tell us who it's going to.
Again, the criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
Perfect.
Keep it a secret and we'll be right back.
Want smash boom without the ad breaks?
Join Smarty Pass and get an ad-free feed of this and all the other Brains on Universe shows.
Plus, you'll get to do virtual hangs with me and the crew and you'll get discounts on our cool merch.
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Let's get back to the debate.
It's time for the... Sneak Attack.
This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot.
Today's sneak attack is called Be My Roommate.
Your challenge is to convince us that your animal is the perfect pal to split rent with.
We want you to present your argument in the form of an ad looking for a roommate.
So you'll pretend to be either a pig or a frog looking to find a flatmate.
Describe the home.
Tell us what amenities it has.
Maybe talk about how you'll help out around the house.
Does this make sense?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay, Anna, you're up first.
Let's hear why splitting digs with pigs is the best.
Hello, I'm a pig and I'm looking for a roommate.
The accommodations are spacious.
I love to keep my sleeping area separate from dining area.
And I will definitely help clean up around the house because I'm an omnivore and I eat everything.
So I'm more of an omnomnomnivore.
Yeah.
I love doing activities.
I love to play games.
I love to push a little ball around with my snout.
So fun.
And I'd be happy to play games with any roommate who wants to.
And if you like foraging and eating, well, fine dining is in my skill set.
I can use my snoot to snuffle up some truffles.
That's right.
Pigs have such an excellent sense of smell that they can find one of the most valuable mushrooms on the planet.
Gourmet truffles.
Delicious.
Also, pigs represent luck and wealth in Chinese culture.
So stick with me.
I'm a lucky pig.
Wow.
Okay.
A roommate that can play ball with their nose and find me some truffles.
All right.
I'm going to submit an application.
Billy, you're up.
Tell us why sharing a pad with a frog is rad.
Oh, hey.
How's it going?
I'm a frog.
Thanks so much for your interest in rooming with me.
So this place is a 350-room lily pad, two-bathroom...
I like to call the swamp.
I'm really looking for somebody who's like really nice and will clean up after themselves, but also, you know, share food.
Fortunately, the food is always flying around us.
I, during the day, I have a busy schedule.
I leap to work.
I'm an athlete.
I also, after work, I have choir practice.
So me and a few friends, we sing all night.
So long as you're okay with a little singing throughout the night, then I think this is going to work out really well.
You know, you can keep the AC on or put the heater on and I'm not bothered.
I'm very easy.
I'm very easy.
And hopefully you are too.
Thanks for your interest, by the way.
I like that purse.
Can I join the choir?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, we're always looking for new choir members.
We just are continuing to multiply.
Very interesting.
I get to find a very spacious, huge apartment.
You know, it's pretty big.
We like it.
We like it.
A little wet, but yeah.
As long as you're okay with a bunch of roommates.
All right, Emmy, think about which side's ad impressed you the most.
Was one funnier?
Did one sound like a better roomie?
Award your fourth point, but don't tell us who you're giving it to.
Have you made your decision?
Yes.
Perfect.
Then it's time for our last round.
The final six.
In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
A simple but powerful way to make your point.
Billy, you go first.
Tell us why frogs are unfrog-gettable.
Frog legs.
Hot, cold.
We rise.
Very nice.
All right, Anna, it's your turn to pour a little more praise on pigs.
Charming.
Intelligent.
Classy.
Gourmets.
Cute.
Oink.
Very nice.
Thank you.
Okay, Emmy.
Think over these words.
It's time to award a final point for this final six.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
Okay.
Tally up those points.
Are you ready to crown one team the smash boom best?
Yes.
All right.
Drum roll, please.
And the winner is... Team Figs.
Oh, my gosh.
Emmy, what was the moment that decided things for you?
It came down to the final six.
So close.
What were some moments that really stood out for you?
Well, I liked how Anna described how smart pigs were and how they were cute and did benefit humans because of their domestication.
And I liked how Billy described many interesting types of frogs.
And especially about that frog that lives in the Arctic Circle.
So many amazing facts we learned about both of these very cool creatures.
Oh, Billie, I learned so much.
I have a new appreciation for frogs.
And I know I mentioned Miss Piggy earlier.
And where would she be without Kermit?
I think if Miss Piggy can love a frog, then I can too.
You know what?
Congratulations.
I feel the same way.
I think Kermit and Miss Piggy really exemplify the connection that frogs and pigs have and will always have.
And I think one thing about pigs actually I didn't know was that the hair was used for paintbrushes.
And I thought that was really cool.
I love that pigs contribute to our art scene.
That's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that is it for today's debate battle.
Emmy crowned pigs the Smash Boom best, but what about you?
Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Mark Sanchez, Hannah Totten, and Billy Soko.
It was sound designed by Anna Weigel, and Mark wrote our theme song.
We had engineering help from Zoltan Sidonu.
Our announcer is Marlee Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Anna, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
I just want to give a shout out to Billy because this was really, really fun and I enjoyed the debate.
How about you, Billy?
Any special shout outs?
Oh, right back at you, Anna.
This is what a joy.
I was laughing.
I have a quiet laugh and a loud laugh and both were happening.
And Emmy, do you want to give any special thanks or shout outs?
I want to give a special thanks to my mom who is currently recording me right now.
A special thanks to my dad and my dog, Storm.
Aw, very nice.
Before we go, let's check in and see who Jack thinks should win the debate between Medusa and Hydra.
What I really think would be going is that the Hydra wins because, you know, with a quick shing shing shing, it has 21 heads, you know.
So I just wanted to say that that's my debate idea.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Farewell.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
I mean, congrats.
