Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with me, Steve.
Today on the show, I'm joined by Liming and Honglin.
Coming up, what does it take to make a great romantic relationship?
Step one, find a partner.
But after that, things can get a little complicated.
and we find out today the perfect recipe for a romantic relationship and after that a new trend is seeing celebrities popping into shops to show us through video the best businesses have to offer.
Are you buying what they're selling?
Remember you can always find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast and if you have any questions that you want us to answer on social issues or business or technology or whatever is on your mind you can send those thoughts our way.
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And now, a dash of respect, a pinch of time talking, and a sprinkle of kisses.
Sounds like the beginning to a Disney song, does it not?
But this could be the recipe for a perfect relationship.
Or is there even such a thing?
Well, one therapist or relationship expert in the United States has a decade's worth of experience counseling couples.
And based on her experiences, she believes she knows what it takes to keep those happy relationship vibes all the way to the end.
So let's go through the ingredients and see what we can learn.
So tell us the secret to unlock eternal happiness in our love lives.
The answer is 42. 42 what?
42 fights? Remember the movie Hitchhiker's High Guy?
Oh, 42 is always the answer, eh?
Oh, right, right, right.
The answer to the ultimate question of the universe is 42.
Let's start perhaps with who this expert is.
I mean, who is this love expert?
Dr. Sarah Nassar -Zadeh has a doctorate in social psychology and focuses on relationships in her private practice as a therapist.
She has been researching and working with couples across more than 40 countries for more than two decades and seems to be in a state of perpetual curiosity about what makes them tick.
Anasa Zada is also the author of three books, including the recent Love by Design, Six Ingredients to Build a Lifetime of Love.
Interesting, six specific ingredients.
All right, well, let's go through these ingredients and see if we agree with some of them.
Who knows, we might disagree with some of them as well.
I'm disagreeing already.
Okay. You don't even know what they are.
Well, I know these six elements are mutual attraction, trust, respect, shared vision, and loving behavior.
I'm not disagreeing with the ingredients.
I'm disagreeing because I feel like these basically are the ingredients for any perfect relationship.
There's no perfect relationship.
We just try to bear with each other for as long as we can.
See really different views.
My view is that this is like too simple an answer.
Of course, these elements are important, but they are also important in the relationship you have with your friends, in the relationship you have with your co -workers.
Loving behavior with your co -workers.
Yeah, that one. We strike that one.
Please. But what I'm saying is...
Mutual attraction with your co -workers.
Actually, no. Hold on.
All right. Minus that one, too.
These are just simple...
The list is getting shorter.
Simple answers. It's like, yes, you have to trust each other.
You have to be able to communicate.
You have to share responsibilities and you have to know your roles.
And see, I can easily name different elements here already.
I mean, if you tell me there's just one secret to a perfect relationship, I'd like to listen.
But you're telling me there are six elements or six ingredients.
That's just, you know, too long a list.
On the surface, I would agree with you.
If we dig a little deeper into each of the ingredients, let's do it with the respect one.
This is what Dr. Nasir Zada has to say.
When her, I was going to say customers.
They're not exactly customers.
When her clients says, I'm not respected by my partner, the doctor always asks, are you respectable?
What are your boundaries?
I thought that to be quite an interesting point because people might often have that complaint.
I don't think my partner respects me.
therefore putting the blame on them, whereas Dr.
Nazr Zadda is suggesting the problem partly may be with you.
Well, it's a two -way communication.
You have to make sure that your boundaries is communicated to your partner and you have to make sure he or she understands how much this matters to you.
And then you have to make her or him understand that if they don't respect your boundaries, something is going to happen.
maybe your relationship is at stake.
But I find that to be a challenge though.
Of course, it's going to depend from argument to argument, but sometimes you just give up the fight for the sake of giving up the fight and you don't feel like letting your thoughts be known though.
Isn't that true? Well, a great leader in this country once said, if we were willing to give up on our own interests to work for unity, that unity can be quickly lost.
Whereas if you fight to build a consensus, that consensus can last longer.
Good point. What kinds of problems, Lyming, does she typically encounter with modern troubles in her practice?
And what kind of couples does she see?
You know, 40 different countries for over a decade.
She's seen it all, I suppose.
Yeah, she's seen submerged couples.
and these partners have very low levels of autonomy and identity.
Well, she sees contemporary couples, which is very common in this relationship.
The allocation of resources, including time, energy, attention, and money, always revolve around the couples themselves.
Modern couples want to maintain some of these resources for themselves and then give part to the relationship.
This is what happens in my family.
My wife and I both run our own bank accounts for the benefit of online shopping because it gets tired asking for the passcode when you're buying something in the middle of the night.
You have to push her, wake up, wake up, I need your passcode to buy something.
It's just simply inconvenient.
It's a personal question you don't have to answer, but the way my parents do it, it sounds very similar.
Mom has her own bank account, dad has his own, But they also have a shared bank account where they use that for groceries and things like that.
Is that the same system you use?
Yes, we have a shared account where I put money in there and both of us will pay for the mortgage and the tuition for the kids and stuff.
So the contemporary couple agrees in the allocation of resources, including money, of course, but also including time and energy.
so that means if one person in the relationship feels like they're contributing more resources to the relationship where it should be 50 50 then that's going to cause a problem if there's an imbalance what do you think on me but if you think about it it's never fair is it you can never find a perfect
50 50 balance in your relationship if you think about the time frame as in one week, this week, you definitely would do more than the other party if you think about it only financially or if you think about it only time -wise, whether or not you are contributing more time to the family, to take care of the family.
So I think that is something really hard to define.
You can't really punch in when you play the role of a father and then punch out when you decide you want to do overtime at home.
Sadly, I think some dads probably do that.
Okay, contemporary couple.
That's example number one.
Here's another one.
The leftover couple.
Hong Lim, what's that?
Well, what happens with a leftover couple is that they are trying to manage those resources on their own.
And whatever is left will go to the relationship space.
These couples are prioritizing their individuality over the relationship, sometimes by choice, sometimes by demand.
And they do see their relationship as a separate entity from themselves.
but relegate it to just one more item on the to -do list.
Oh, that's interesting.
So the marriage, and this, according to the doctor, this type of couple, which she calls the leftover couple, is very common.
So this type of couple sees the relationship almost as a task.
A project. That needs to be worked on, just like doing the dishes or the grocery shopping.
And it's not even on the priority list.
or gets pushed way down the priority list.
Yeah, this is very interesting because a very popular reality show called See You Again is the fourth season of the reality show here in China.
And the concept of that show is to bring couples who are thinking about separating or who have already divorced, but just divorced, like three or four couples, and they talk about their problems in the reality show basically showing their wounds and showing their problems to all the audience out there.
And in these kind of shows, definitely someone would be blamed for quote -unquote breaking up the marriage or being the one who's at fault in this relationship.
And the reason that the show got a lot of attention is because people are talking about this NPD situation in the couple that is narcissistic personality disorder.
meaning that you pay too much attention on yourself.
You don't really care about other people's opinion and you think really high of yourself, these kinds of situations.
I feel like this would relate to leftover couples.
Some leftover couples might have that problem.
On the extreme end of things, right?
But you still, in this example, the couples still, the individuals within the relationship, they still see themselves as part of it and an important part of it, needing to satisfy their own kind of wants and needs well that would be the problem if it goes too far and that's the example or the that's
the opposite excuse me of example number three according to the doctor she calls these couples submerged couples and she says in this example the partners have very low levels of autonomy and they identify as one half of a whole person oh yeah we are happy today so yeah right oh we went shopping today
we don't feel like going to the movies tomorrow right we we we we and they tend to finish their sentences each other's sentences they do that a lot they say things like i can't live without him or i can't live without her now we see that a lot in the movies and we see that as being ultra romantic right
and the media depicts these types of couples as almost the the standard one yeah right but here's what the doctor has to say about that if you are in that relationship you're doomed now again this is not the express opinion of roundtable this is the opinion of one a relationship doctor but this is what she says
if you stay in this space you're doomed because you're so wrapped up in your couple bubble that you lose your individuality.
And while at the time it may be okay, but there may come a time where your own individual needs become important too.
And at that point in time, the relationship will suffocate you.
I don't know. I think it really depends on the formula.
I could see somebody with MPD working with a submerged couple candidates.
I think they complement each other.
Yeah, you would think that.
But one couple in the reality show I just mentioned, the see you again.
I think in Chinese, we call it 再见爱人.
So goodbye, my lover.
It's like, bye. So the couple that I was trying to give as an example is exactly the combination of super someone who thinks that he is super important and his every word should be written down and giving people as golden advices.
and another party. The women in the relationship used to think that she respected her husband so much and he is so smart and he was so right at everything.
But guess what? Nobody's always right.
And people grow. The problem with having not enough or good enough personality or individuality or recognition of who you really are and what you want in a relationship is that once you grow or your significant other grows, the relationship would fall apart.
Fair point as well.
Do you enjoy watching that show because you enjoy watching other people kind of suffering?
Yeah, gossiping, legit gossiping with my friends about other couples.
That's fun. Because that sounds like something that would give me happiness as well.
Just before we wrap this up, from 2024, a study from 2024, the Not Relationship and Intimacy Study, the top five attributes that people are seeking in a partner.
You tell me what would be number one on your list.
Here they are. Easy to talk to.
Physical attraction or chemistry.
Sense of humor. Emotionally available or financially stable.
Lai Ming, if you are starting all over again, what would be number one on your list in terms of priorities of looking for a partner?
I'll ditch all of them and choose shared vision.
Shared vision. Because really, if I live with somebody who doesn't share the same vision as me, there's going to be a lot of problems.
If my spouse doesn't believe in working hard and improving myself, I will complain about her playing with her cell phone all the time, watching soap opera, wasting her time.
If she doesn't believe in being the best of oneself, then she probably couldn't stand me working overtime, studying and trying to improve myself, wasting time on pointless studying without paying attention to the kids and to the family.
And also politics. If we don't share the same vision about politics, then perhaps in the US, if you voted for Biden, whereas your spouse voted for Trump, then that could be a big issue.
And it is a big issue.
I've talked to American families where they had both Republicans and Democrats within the same household.
They have to keep it a secret who they voted for.
I was told they don't discuss.
They never discuss it.
I know. Honglin, what would be your answer there?
Well, I would also not choose any factor from the list.
And even if I just trash talk to the sixth element, I would actually go for mutual attraction.
I think there has to be some element that is romantic.
I know it is not something that you would see all the time in your family life.
Yet it's something, I think it's the fundamental element or at least a starting point of being able to stay together forever.
It's the glue which you use after you had a fight and you have to pick up the pieces.
The hot and sexy glue.
you're listening to roundtable with myself steve libing and hongling coming up next celebrities are exploring stores for you but are you buying it stay tuned looking for passion how about fiery debate want to hear about current events in china from different perspectives then tune in to roundtable where east
meets west and understanding is the goal You're listening to Roundtable with Honglin Laiming and myself, Steve Hatherly.
And these days, a new trend has emerged.
Influential individuals often attract popularity and traffic to certain stores or brands.
Celebrities used to film TV commercials for brands, but now, with the increasing reach and impact of short video platforms, the trend has shifted.
A variety of popular celebrities, especially some of the high -profile entrepreneurs developing personal brands, have joined the trend of store explorations, becoming food critics or travel and culture bloggers.
The topics are various, but the trend is real.
Their involvement has brought new changes to the store exploration scene, and I wonder what's driving the shift.
There's a Chinese term for it, right?
Store exploration? Yes, we call it tanjian or store exploration.
It's kind of like restaurant exploring or store tour.
It is a popular activity where people personally visit and experience various shops, especially dining venues, and then share their experiences.
Sometimes they do it in the form of short videos.
The short video one would be more organized.
They would say, what kind of store is this one?
what kind of store this is and what are the dishes they ordered and which ones they enjoy, which ones they don't.
Sometimes they would even include the ingredients, the reaction next day if there is any.
And for the live streaming ones, yes, live streaming could be a form of the store exploration kind of activity.
Are these arranged?
I haven't seen any and I apologize for that.
But does it start? I'm kind of envisioning things that I've seen in the past where a person starts the video outside the shop, then they go inside and here I am today at this place, XYZ restaurant.
And then they go inside, do they go into the kitchen and the chef explains the dish or is this more realistic rather than like a TV show where they go inside, they order their food and then they're just giving kind of their own personal experience.
There are so many different kinds nowadays.
Actually, I think at the very beginning of it, it's more of a, I am just a real person and I don't have any connection to any of these stores.
I am only sharing my experience eating in the restaurant, for example, but quickly starting from there, people would visit the chef, visit the kitchen sometimes.
And sometimes the people we're talking about are chefs who understand how to cook the a special dish and they would explain why am I enjoying this quite a lot and why I don't and what would I do for this dish and later on there are forms that they would hide their cameras and pretending that the restaurant
owners do not know they're coming different forms quite a lot of variety here and these store tours are made by all kinds of people and in all kinds of ways that I don't think what we're talking about now is new.
I mean, it's new, but it's not entirely new because think Anthony Bourdain parts on now.
It's kind of a store tour.
Anthony Bourdain, sorry for our listeners who don't know, he's a famous, I think he was Canadian, maybe not, maybe he was American anyway, a famous chef.
And I think he was one of the first of his kind to travel the world and explore the connection between food and culture and people.
He made a famous TV show out of it.
He's no longer with us, sadly.
But that's what you're referencing.
That's who you're referencing.
Right, right. And I personally remember traveling on subway and the subway channel, I think it's owned by the subway operators.
They have a habit of introducing different restaurants by the subway stations.
They were going to the tours and introduce them.
I see progressively how she's grown bigger as she continued to dedicate to her job.
But what I'm trying to say is there are all kinds of forms and all kinds of ways in which people can make these store tours.
So I don't see anything new with Xiaomi's founder Lei Jun and Safety Software 360 founder Zhou Hongyi or for that matter, Education Institute New Oriental founder Yu Minghong starting to do these tours.
So then what is the shift in the trend?
If these types of videos have existed before and they've been done by countless people at countless locations at countless different types of businesses, then what is the shift these days?
Well, the shift is you don't commonly expect these entrepreneurs to start doing these restaurateurs because they are professionals in their own area of expertise.
they are owners or founders of tech giants and that you would expect them to be busy working on ppt's and presentations and trying to get uh second round third round zero on foundings so you just don't see them going into a restaurant you know they're rich they probably go to fancy restaurants entertain very
important guests you don't see them walking into a random store in for instance in sheen in northwest china and say this is a restaurant that i've been given going to as a college kid since 1990 is that part of the attraction then that these new videos are being done by people that we know who they
are it's just that we wouldn't expect them to be making videos like this well definitely because it's breaking their persona in the public area and i think that Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk going to a restaurant and introducing to you or Brett Obama eating a sandwich.
Which he did in one of Anthony Bourdain's movies.
Exactly. Vietnam, was it not, I believe.
It wasn't a sandwich, but it's Vietnam food.
So the idea is that, well, I believe the reason they're doing it, it's kind of like a personal promotional video for them.
Because if I am really looking into a store and trying to figure out if the certain product or a certain dish is good for me, I would look for the kind of professional, quote -unquote, professional store explorers who have already shared their preference in taste, whether or not they care about not only
the taste of the dish, but also the smell of the dish, for example, whether or not they enjoy vegetable or do they like spicy and how spicy is too spicy for them.
I would find the one that is closest to my taste and follow his or her advices.
Whereas for these huge entrepreneurs, by saying huge, I mean huge in the amount of money they have, their videos are with more entertainment element, in my opinion.
It's only because they're doing things that they normally won't do in public areas that these videos are getting more attractive to ordinary audience.
So it's the celebrity factor, but the celebrity being more attainable or down to earth, attainable, reachable for their audience.
Whereas, you know, you'd never have a chance to see a CEO try a bowl of soup and hear what their opinion is about it.
I can see I can see the attraction there.
Does it have legs or is this just a short trend?
Do you think? I don't know.
I personally, I only look at these as a form of entertainment.
I would never watch these videos as a reference to decide what restaurant I would go to, even though that has been the case for hundreds, if not thousands of people who watch these videos.
Well, the advantage for the businesses, this is like a win, win, win, win, win, I would think.
At the beginning, of course, because for the one who's doing the video, they're showing people their person side of them they're being done to earth approachable and they're sharing the memory they have in their college about their college days so it's definitely more likable comparing to the idea of oh
you have the amount of money well you make the amount of money in one day that i cannot make for my entire life and at the same time the stores would get some traffic and audience might be able to try something new that I didn't know before.
But I feel like if this trend, like you said, Steve, goes on and on for several years, when all that glare disappear, then people would still go to definitely the kind of blogger that they trust that share the same kind of preferences.
I think part of the attraction of celebrities is that they're not attainable.
They're not reachable.
They're not seen as down to earth.
They're seen as almost otherworldly at times.
So if, to use an American example, Tom Cruise were to suddenly start vlogging about his favorite local eateries every day for the next year.
i don't think that would help him in the future i think it would help the restaurants more or whatever businesses the fashion stores or whatever but i'm not entirely sure how much it would serve him serve his purpose interesting to think about uh well is it going to last that we don't know but what we
do know is that is extremely popular right now and that will bring us to the end of today's round table laiming thank you thank you honglin thank you great to be here i've been your host for today, Steve Hatherly.
Thank you to you as well for your time.
Don't forget, you can find us on Apple Podcast at Roundtable China, Apple Podcast at Roundtable China.
Thank you again for your time today.
And please do join us again next time on Roundtable.
