Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Nihil Haleen joined by Steve and Yishun.
Coming up, have you ever dreamed of freezing through an airport without needing to show
a single document?
Well, that dream might be closer than you think.
Roundtable invites you to observe the global race to create a 100% document-free airport
with cool new tech like Fisher Recognition and Artificial Intelligence.
Airports are getting ready to say goodbye to paper and plastic.
Better for the environment as well.
Let's chat about what this could mean for the future of travel.
And why are some adults, as well as kids, spending thousands of dollars on a single card?
From the thrill of the chase to the staggering prices, these rare collectible cards can
command what drives this passion and how has it become such a lucrative market.
Roundtable will discuss the above all and more.
But now, as biometric systems and AI evolve, airports are moving towards eliminating physical
documents entirely, aiming to enhance both efficiency and security.
We see there is a case in Abu Dhabi and Steve is certainly going to provide a lot more
info about this very interesting airport.
When you go to the airport, what do you find annoying?
I wonder, you shouldn't.
Security check.
Because I have a lot of, you know, expensive jewels.
No.
I'm electronics.
You need to go through all of these security checks and take them out and go through
it.
How about you, Honglin?
I think it's similar, but it bothers me because I need to be there so much earlier than
I feel like I absolutely have to be.
It's like three hours early.
It's just too early, too much time.
Yeah, because of all the checks that you have to go through, all the documentation you
have to provide.
I'll use that as my segue into Abu Dhabi's Zayed International Airport.
They're already known for their high tech infrastructure.
And now they're in the news again, because they are launching their smart travel project.
And what they're looking to do is to install biometric sensors in every identification
checkpoint of the airport, every checkpoint from check encounters to immigration booths,
to duty free stalls, airline lounges, boarding gates, anywhere you need to show identification
or proof that you deserve to be at that part of the airport boarding passes or what have
you.
Biometrics, they are looking to use that from the beginning all the way to the point
where you get on the airplane.
That is actually quite a bold movement because we do not feel the lack of this kind of
smaller improvements in different areas in different airports.
For example, I think before because for those of you who do not reach Chinese, actually
my name, there is for the Chinese name you're only in the home in the middle is a character
that is hard to write.
That actually means when I was a kid, when I have had to take an airplane, not only do
I have this passport, well not passport, this boarding pass, I actually have my name hand
written, especially hand written because the machine cannot get my character.
And I have to hand written and then find the one with the right to stamp on it, making
sure that I didn't write it myself.
He authorized it and I'll take that to different places and it's very annoying.
I'm still dealing with that today because of my middle name.
My middle name is Michael, but when it prints it out on a boarding pass, sometimes it only
puts the M.I.
And I don't pay attention a lot of the time because if they give me the boarding pass,
I assume that's good enough, but I'll get to the security gate and they'll say, no,
you have to go back to the desk, get them to physically write out the C-H-A-E-L, the
rest of Michael, and then stamp it and then I got to go back again.
And that was the situation for me for a really long time.
On to one day, I realized the computer started to recognize my name and can print it out.
And then another day, I realized I do not need a boarding pass, a physical boarding pass
anymore because I can have the electronic one in my phone.
And the other day, I realized after using, well, I think a lot of airports in China provide
the service that you still need your ID card or your passport, but you do not need a human
to physically check that.
You can have it on a machine, have it scanned and have the official recognition system.
So yes, I feel like these improvements are happening gradually, yet the Abu Dhabi movement
that is installing the physical, well, the check up sensor, the biometric sensor everywhere
from the top to what from head to toe, that is quite impressive.
They're looking to, sorry, to interrupt nine touch points.
So that's the goal.
And if they do that, then they're going to be considering this a success.
So how it works is if you visit the UAE for the very first time, all be you, a resident
or a tourist, you have your biometric.
So the metrics collected at immigration by the federal authority for identity, citizenship,
customs and port security, that's the, that's basically the police of the airport, if
you will.
Then the system gathers all that information.
And after you go back a second time, you're automatically recognized, you're automatically
authenticated as you move through the airport.
And the whole goal here, by the way, we haven't talked about that, is to ease the flow of
passengers making the transit much quicker.
We know, and you talked about it, Honglin, sometimes three hours to get from the parking
lot to the to the airplane.
It doesn't seem very efficient.
It doesn't really take that much time.
It's just one you are asked to give that amount of time to make sure it's safe.
It's a bit annoying.
And if we can shorten that time slot, it's actually much better.
Especially when you are getting late.
Yeah, when you're, yeah, when you're about to be late for your flight.
Exactly.
Well, Andrew Murphy said that this could cut the time down from the parking lot to the
gate to 15 minutes.
I know that is very impressive.
And in the meantime, I have already also shared some of the moves that are initiated and
actually implemented in different transportation areas and transportation spots here in China.
And I believe there are actually more.
Yeah, actually, I think Chinese people shouldn't be unfamiliar to or with these biometric technology
to be honest are subway stations, high speed rail entrances and so on are now also have
these kind of facial recognition technology for entry.
But from my observation, actually, people don't use that much.
I think one thing is that there is a certain threshold to use it.
You need to basically register it and then people need to trust the technology enough and
find it convenient.
And it needs to be smart and fast enough, I would say, because especially when we're using
the subway, we need to, we want this entry to be as quick as possible to, you know, don't
to be smooth.
Of course.
Yeah.
Don't block the people behind you.
So there is a adaptation process to be needed, I would say, when you are, it is quite new
to people.
But it seems like people wanted in October of 2023.
There was a survey done by the International Air Transport Association and they found that
75% of passengers said they want to be able to use biometric data over their paper pass
ports in the future over their boarding passes in the future for the remaining 25% who still
feel uncomfortable, by the way, it's not like you're being forced into this.
You don't have to use this biometric process if you don't want to.
You can go the traditional route that's still an option in Abu Dhabi, but you're going
to be waiting a lot longer.
Yes.
And here is my question, because here in China, actually, back in 2020, 2021, 2019, there
have been media reports about different airports in Sichuan province, in Beijing, Daxing airports,
in high-nan province, in these, all these different places.
There have been this improvement of using biometric information, of official recognition.
Yet, the problem, the issue, the difference here is that we still use our ID card.
We still use our passport.
It's just that instead of having an actual human being standing in the checkpoint, checking
your identification, you have the machine, just the job.
And you talked about 15 minutes, actually, back in 2021, one, this is a TNF Airport conducted
this drill of trying to see how many people they can accommodate if they're using this entirely
official recognition check in this entire process with the security, the boarding, using
the technology and a paperless system, how much money, how much time it could save.
Actually, it's still around 15 minutes, as little as 15 minutes, you can finish the whole
process.
So, what I'm saying here is that we all know with the ID card, you have the chip in the
ID card, and if you use official recognition as well as the ID card or the passport, you
can get things done and can be a bit faster.
But official recognition itself, solely official recognition is another thing.
You would have to put in a lot more of your personal information into the system, allow
the system to get the access of your biometric information.
Do we, are we really ready to give out all of our private information?
Are we confident enough that they will secure our data?
I mean, Singapore is ready.
They started it earlier this month, only partially terminal three at the airport in Singapore.
If you've ever been to that airport, it's a really pretty place.
Actually, it's almost like a tourist attraction on its own, the Singapore airport.
Anyway, they use lanes designated for their new, what they call, tokenless clearance program,
where you can enter the country using eye and facial biometric processing, rather than
passports, not just Singapore, Hong Kong International Airport, Tokyo, Nareta, Tokyo
and Nareta, Delhi's airport as well, the Indira Gandhi International.
They've launched biometric terminals at certain points during transit too.
I think we're going to see the future of airports being fully biometric, I don't know.
And also, of course, European airports are making strides too.
Last year, IATA partnered with British Airways.
And also in the US, the customs and border protection protection has implemented biometrics
at the arrival zones of all of its 96 international airports, with 53 locations also having the
technology available at departure.
I would say, of course, the technology is making the whole process sufficient, faster and
maybe convenient.
But I really enjoyed this convenience that the biometric technology brings us.
But I will also feel that as people are traveling more frequently these days, we also want to
keep things like tickets and boarding pass.
As a collection?
Yes.
So, as a little bit of...
For your scrapbook.
Next to your expensive jewels.
Very old school issue.
Very old school.
You don't collect any of these boarding passes?
I keep all of my boarding passes, do you really?
Well, you need them for later because you have to upload them to a picture to the app
to get your points sometimes.
You can also print it out if you want to.
But my next question is, if most of the airports or some of the airports are initiating
this new way of checking, I still have to carry my passport or my ID card.
If I am enjoying multiple travels in just one journey, maybe in this airport I'm fine,
but I still need it for the next airport.
Oh yes, if you're listening, please don't think that you can leave your passport at home.
No, that's not the point at all.
You're still going to need...
Even if you can go through a local airport using biometrics, the airport you're arriving
to might not have that system.
If you're even if it does, if you're arriving for the first time, you're still going to
have to prove who you are.
So all the documents that we may not need in the future, we still do need them right now.
That's why we say that, okay, it sounds like everything is so fast and convenient.
But actually, behind it is a lot of cooperation between these airports and also local authorities.
So when we are saying that, okay, we can go through all of these gates without showing
our IDs or passports with all of these sensors.
Actually, we are also giving out our personal information.
Exactly.
So a lot of people are concerning about the security of our personal information.
I totally agree.
I think that is why as airports move towards this high-tech future, it's going to be important
to make sure these innovations work for everyone and keep our personal information safe.
As we move closer to this reality, it will be essential to address these challenges,
spotfully, ensuring that the benefits of a document-free experience are accessible and
safe for all travelers.
You're listening to Roundtable coming up next.
Let's explore a fascinating and expensive hobby that has captivated many people around
the world, the collecting of rare cards.
From trading card games to sports memory.
To boarding passes.
To boarding passes for you, Sean.
The market for these items are exploded, will take a closer look at what drives adults,
as well as kids to spend big on these collectibles and how these niche market has involved into
a lucrative industry.
Stay tuned.
Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Turn into Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's the hour of Roundtable with myself, Neil Holen, Steve Hatterley and Yushun.
Moment of truth.
Do you collect anything that might seem useless?
I'm using the air quote, Yushulis in other people's eyes.
Do you?
Yushun.
I'm going to let you go first with your very long list, I assume.
I think we know on the list the top of the list is sporting pass.
So what's also on the list?
I'm guessing old tech items.
Oh, wow, cool.
Actually, I do.
I don't think I am collecting them.
I just have hoarding them.
Bonds.
Bonds.
With all of these old items that I used to use.
I've been using them for, anyway, that's another topic.
Actually, I don't know how kids in other countries are, but Chinese kids probably all have
some kind of card collecting games or habits or trends over there.
When I was young, there was Pokemon cards that was really popular in all sorts of
shapes and styles that we would trade with friends or we fight with our friends with these
cards.
I have that too.
So in recent years, the elementary and middle school students nowadays are just born after
2010 are still into similar things.
So I would say, young kids just have that kind of habits.
I did when I was a kid.
Hockey cards, baseball cards.
Of course.
Yeah, that was the thing.
So the star cards, right?
Well, what you would try to do is you would try to collect, if I remember correctly, you
would try to collect the whole set of players.
And that seems maybe a little childish, but those things can become rather valuable when
time passes.
Wayne Gretzky, you probably don't know who that is, but he is considered to be maybe the
best hockey player in history.
Well, I have his card from his first professional career year, which was like 1978.
I got it from a friend much later in life.
And that's worth almost $2,000.
Now that just won that one card.
So we shouldn't, we shouldn't tease these kids for collecting these cards now or we shouldn't
tease anyone for collecting anything.
Who knows in the future, it might be considered pretty good investment.
Yeah, who knows?
The boarding pass could be limited edition of this year.
No, those will be useless.
Actually, those are already useless.
But even if they're not that investable, I still can see the fun of collecting the cards,
knowing the stories behind each and every character on the card and also trading them with
your friends because we talked about when I was a kid, we had the little cards.
There were at least two types of cards.
One cards were in a bag of instant noodle, but like instantly eatable noodle, not the kind
of noodle that you need to pour in boiled water kind.
It's just like, it's chips, it's Chinese style chips, it might understand it.
And those cards are a bit like today's cards, except that we still have some snack that
we can enjoy, but for today's cards, you just buy the cards directly.
The likeable element include the fact that these cards are from the romance of the three
kingdoms or from the journey to the west, that the characters are from these ancient Chinese
classics.
Yes, you get to know the stories of that character from the back of the card.
There will be a little description of the character.
Those cards are collectible.
Then for the game playing winning cards from your friends, from your classmates' kind of
cards, we would have a huge piece of paper relatively thicker than papers that we used
to print.
You can play those cards by flipping them over if you successfully flip over both your
cards and your friends' cards, then you wing them both.
You have to throw it at the ground, is that clear?
Yes, yes, yes, some of them are like that.
I think it's played all over the world.
And the thing for today's situation is that you take out the playing element and you
putting a little bit of spending too much money element.
And that element is much concerned to buy parents.
Yes, and there is a legitimate reason to be concerned because sometimes the kids become
obsessed with getting that hard to get card.
They'll open up the pack and they'll get the repeated cards over and over and they feel
disappointed so they keep spending money.
Parents have to keep an eye on that, I guess.
Exactly.
You know, these new, I mean, franchises like my little pony or Ultraman or Naruto and
so on.
They are, I think, popular among these young and primary school students or middle school
students.
And also they actually design different types of these cards.
Like, first of all, you get the most normal one playing cards and then maybe got the rainbow
cards, golden cards, shiny cards, everything.
And then that's why these students are compared to each other with their own cards by seeing,
okay, I got a rare word card and you don't.
And then we can trade with each other.
And in this way, it is actually developing a kind of, I wouldn't say trading state of
market.
Yeah.
And it is also becoming a way of socialization among these young people.
I like it.
I mean, I think it's a healthy hobby, right?
Yeah, trying to keep kids.
By spending $195 a month on these little cards.
Is that the average?
No, that's an example that I saw on the internet that this, this dad has two daughters and
they spend like $195 a month buying all of these, my little pony cards.
And you know today's kids, you know today's entertainment world.
Once something is getting popular, Larry, among a certain number of people, it will be
showcased in certain ways on the internet.
For example, on live streaming studios and platforms, you see that this also becomes a
booming industry that is to openly trade these cards, these blind boxes in the cards by
showcasing the opening box process to kids.
And apparently we see, for example, we have this one stream, subtract over 400,000 viewers
on average with sales ranging from 200 to 500 cards per session and total sales between
one, two, $350,000.
That is, yeah, that is too much money.
Yeah.
And you cannot imagine, you know, all of these kids are watching these live streamings and
placing the order of buying these cards and they are using their parents money, I would
say.
So that is why people are concerning that if kids are addicted to these kinds of trades
or collection, they will bring them that kind of state of mind of, these things are the
value that I think it is worth it.
And then they will just buy it.
I forgot about the internet for a moment because I was thinking back to when I was getting
hockey cards and then meeting up with my friends at the school playground.
And do you have this one?
No, I don't, what you talked about trading before, right?
But that's all it was.
There was no online stock market type thing going on with the trading cards where it got
really, really expensive suddenly.
So I do see the point.
Yeah, as a parent, you got to keep your eye on, on this.
I still think it's a healthy hobby to have collecting cards or collecting something when
you're a child.
Every parent wants to keep their kids safe and they want to keep them doing healthy types
of things when they're young.
This is a good one, I think.
But yeah, you have to be aware of, well, just know, know where your credit card is at all
times or keep your phone, change your password on your phone to make sure your kids aren't
buying cards when they're not supposed to.
And who would know?
Actually, we, I did a little bit research on collectible cards and apparently there is
this passage talking about five reasons to collect cards.
Enjoy the rich history of rare cards, find a community of collectible trading card lovers,
help your mental health with a hobby bond with your family over sports cards.
There are so many reasons I can read about from those who promote this because they are
seeing this as a lucrative market and you still need to be aware of whether or not you
would genuinely find passion and defined enjoyable moments of those cards.
What did you collect when you were a kid?
When I was a kid, I don't collect anything.
You didn't know.
I didn't collect anything.
I just very healthyly play those cards.
But after a huge sense example, I realized that I didn't get rid of all my old gadgets
as well.
I just heard them like you shouldn't do.
So kind of get the sentiment.
And I want to ask Steve because he talked about sports cards and I have the list of baseball
cards, Pokemon cards, football cards, entertainment cards and baseball cards.
What do you think is?
He just said baseball cards twice.
Oh, basketball cards.
Yeah.
Excuse me.
Yes, basketball cards.
Which cards do you think would be more relatively speaking healthy or educational or
have service multiple functions for kids to collect if they really want to start this hobby?
Well, I mean, if you're not into baseball or basketball or football or any sport, then
you're probably not going to be interested in collecting the cards, I would think.
If you're not into Pokemon, probably not interested in collecting the cards.
So about your interest.
Yeah, I would say find your interest and then see what's collectible from that particular
interest.
I'll be at a sport or something else.
Yeah, for me, it was sports cards when I was a kid, but there are plenty of other options
out there as well.
Collecting coins.
Did you collect coins when you were young?
Collected coins.
I forgot about that.
I forgot about it.
But it's not a serious collecting.
It's more like one, my friends and family visit other countries.
I will bring some coins back and I'll find it interesting to learn a little bit about
the coins.
I think the key here is that one thing is you have to make sure that you can enjoy the
fun of the hobby itself, not merely because of peer pressure or you want to be likeable
among your friends.
Of course.
Because you want to have more friends, things like that.
And another thing is as kids or adults, you need to make sure that you're not doing it
with a gambler's mentality, it will probably not earn you that much money using it as a
kind of investment might not get you where you want to be.
So hopefully the intersection of passion, investment and cultural significance makes this
trend a captivating study of modern consumerism and the value we place on variety.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topics.
Leave us a comment wherever you listen to your podcast and probably give us a five-star
rating if you enjoy the show.
Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.
I'm your homelain with Steve Hatharly and Yishat.
Thanks for listening.
