Today we're going to be talking about us, me and you.
I know it's kind of weird. we're not directly talking about me and you, we're kind of indirectly talking about me and you.
Because today's topic addresses the type of relationship that we have.
Me. as a podcaster and you as the listener.
But also to zoom out from that, me as a public figure and you as somebody who. consumes content of me.
Today we're going to be talking about parasocial relationships.
Now you probably heard this term because it's a buzz term.
The term parasocial relationship has been used a lot. over the past few months and the past few years, but it's especially relevant now with the internet.
But before I go any further, because I just want to totally jump into the topic.
But I have to be responsible and read the definition of parasocial relationships so that...
We're really on the same page here. Parasocial relationships are one-sided relationships where where one person extends emotional energy interest in time, In the other party, the persona is completely unaware of the other's existence.
I think the most obvious example of this is a celebrity and a fan.
The celebrity... is completely unaware of the individual fan's existence.
Yet the fan is putting large amounts of emotional energy interest in time into supporting the celebrity.
That's like an awfully harsh way to look at it.
But, It is the truth. This applies with actors and the characters that they play in movies.
This applies to musicians. This applies to...
Any type of online personality, whether that's a YouTuber or a podcaster or just an influencer...
This applies to every type of celebrity who puts themselves out there.
But it also applies to fictional characters, like a character that you're reading about in a book, or... watching in a TV show or movie.
I think why this is such an interesting topic is to me is because I've experienced both sides of a parasocial relationship and I've experienced the side of it where I'm the persona, you know, I'm the public figure People have a parasocial relationship with me.
But... I've also had many parasocial relationships with public figures.
I grew up watching a lot of YouTube and YouTube is obviously more intimate and than TV shows and movies and fictional characters...
So I grew up with very strong parasocial relationships. because I grew up watching YouTube.
I also had parasocial relationships with other celebrities.
For me, It was always celebrity crushes.
But on YouTube, it was more like... Oh, these are my friends.
These are my friends, people I hang out with.
The reason why I wanted to discuss... parasocial relationships was because, as with all things, it can be a little toxic. on both sides, but it can also be incredibly positive and healthy.
And I think my goal with this conversation is to...
Just instill self-awareness and... mindfulness around this topic.
So that both of us, me and you, can... have it in the back of our minds that we have to keep our parasocial relationships under control so that They can be a positive thing.
They can be a healthy thing. Have you ever been shopping online and the website just gave you the ick?
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First, I want to talk about how parasocial relationships can be positive from the fan perspective and from the celebrity perspective.
From the fan perspective, parasocial relationships can be incredibly beneficial. in a lot of ways.
And a lot of people look at parasocial relationships as automatically unhealthy.
Because it's like, how could it possibly be healthy to have a relationship with somebody who doesn't know you?
But through my own experience and through a little bit of research, I've found that's not true. they're not completely unhealthy.
Can they become unhealthy at a point? Absolutely.
But, When there's a healthy balance, can they be healthy?
Yes. Sometimes we find ourselves in a place where we don't have a strong community of friends around us.
We don't have a strong community of people in general around us and we feel kind of alone.
Parasocial relationships can really help us feel less lonely during these times.
Now, it's one thing to be chronically lonely.
Right. Where it's like, this is not a phase.
This is ongoing. If that's the case, then maybe parasocial relationships are getting in the way. of you going and meeting new people.
But if you're in a place where you're sort of searching for new friends, searching for new community, and you're just going through a phase of loneliness, parasocial relationships can really make that time. more enjoyable.
On top of that, it can kind of help you figure out what you're looking for because parasocial relationships are low risk, right?
You can start watching a TV show, start watching a movie.
Start watching a YouTube channel. And if you don't like it, you can turn it off.
And no one's feelings get hurt. Everyone's fine.
But you can sort of gather information about what type of people you want in your life. based on the parasocial relationships that you create.
For example, if you start watching a YouTuber who's super bubbly, loud, and fun.
Maybe that's a sign that that's a trait that you're looking for in a friend.
And you can start looking for that in your real life.
Or let's say you fall in love with a character on a TV show.
And they're really sensitive and soft-spoken and gentle.
Maybe that's the type of partner that you're looking for.
You can kind of test things out and start to determine which traits are important to you and other people.
So I think during lonely moments, parasocial relationships can really come in handy. for comfort and for studying.
Studying people. I also think too, parasocial relationships at times can prevent you from going back to a situation that wasn't you a lot of times we go back to friends that aren't very good or a significant other that wasn't very good. because we'd rather be with them than be lonely.
But that's not a healthy way to deal with that type of situation. parasocial relationships can sort of temporarily fill that void until you can find new people that bring light and happiness to your life.
Parasocial relationships are also nice because they're easy.
There's no fear of rejection. There's no energy expended to keep up the relationship. yet there's still comfort and satisfaction provided from a parasocial relationship.
It's a different type of comfort. It's a different type of satisfaction but it's not to be ignored.
And I think having a few parasocial relationships in addition to real life healthy relationships, I don't see anything wrong with that.
There are days when we don't really want to be alone.
But we also don't have the energy to keep up socially.
And I think that's when parasocial relationships can come in handy. and can be really rewarding in a lot of ways.
But there is a fine line because I do think that you have to actively have healthy relationships in your real life or be actively searching for healthy relationships in your real life in order for the parasocial relationships to be healthy as well.
A lot of people also have parasocial role models. people who they look up to, they aspire to be like.
And I think that that's incredible because not everybody has a role model in their physical life.
You're very fortunate if you do. A lot of people... don't have that.
And role models can inspire you to Find your own unique voice.
Find your own unique style. Work harder in this area.
Become more organized in this area. Take a risk. that could change your life, see potential in yourself in a way.
You can have a parasocial relationship with somebody who makes you want to better yourself in a way. who inspires you to pick up traits and try things that you wouldn't otherwise.
And last but not least, the shared love thing. for a celebrity persona, fictional character. can actually help you build real life friends.
This is something I hadn't thought of because I've never made a friend this way.
But I read about it online and I was like, that totally makes sense. whether it's meeting somebody who's seeing the same movie as you at the movie theater, or it's meeting someone at a concert, or it's meeting somebody over social media, who's a fellow fan of the same person that you are.
There are so many opportunities to make real life friends. or even meet real-life significant others through a shared... love for the same persona.
That's pretty cool. Now, from the celebrity perspective, parasocial relationships are crucial to celebrities remaining celebrities.
Without parasocial relationships, nobody would keep up with what... celebrities are doing and a lot of them wouldn't have a career.
I mean, if you're an athlete or you're a fictional character... like you're pretending to be a character in a TV show or movie.
Maybe it's a little different, but for...
The majority of celebrities, I would argue that parasocial relationships are crucial to them having a career.
And so obviously that is one of the positive impacts.
But on top of that, the ability to help others through parasocial connection is really important, I think, to a lot of public figures, at least at some point in their career It depends it depends on the person right and whether or not they care and helping people, making people feel comforted, making people feel understood in some way.
Not every celebrity cares about that. Not every public figure, not every actor, not every obviously fictional characters are fictional, but the actors playing them. might care.
It depends. But I think if you trace any piece of media that could be connected with.
There's usually someone involved who cares about parasocial connection to an extent.
When someone writes a TV show or a movie, chances are they want the viewer to connect with it.
When a YouTuber makes a YouTube video, chances are they want people to connect with it.
When anyone sits down and records a podcast, they probably want someone to connect with it.
When anyone writes a book, they probably want the reader to connect with it and find something of value. that they can take with them.
Now, from the perspective of the public figure or celebrity, I think it's pretty obvious that without parasocial relationships... there wouldn't be a career.
People have to connect with you. in one way or another in order for them to want to consume your content.
And so I think that's the most obvious positive impact from parasocial connections. for the public figure.
I think it's pretty magical that one person can help... thousands, even millions of people feel more comforted and feel less alone in some ways through what they create and how they put themselves out there.
And not only does that feel good for the fan, if you will, the person consuming the content, But it also feels good for the public figure, celebrity, whoever creating it. it feels good to make others feel good.
And I think the ability to do that through parasocial relationships is really rewarding.
I've also seen many celebrities go through challenging times. and share that on the internet. and feel truly supported by their fans and that's such a rare but beautiful experience. to receive so much love and support from people who don't even... know you in person.
That's pretty cool and a beautiful thing.
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And we're gonna start from the fan perspective.
There are a lot, but don't take this the wrong way, right? yes, there are a lot of downsides.
Um, But the upsides, I think, can outweigh the downsides.
But we just have to be aware of the downsides so that we don't find ourselves in a place where we're experiencing the negative impact of parasocial relationships, okay?
When taken too far, parasocial relationships can cause us to neglect our lives. parasocial relationships should never be the center of your life.
They should be A small detail. But it's easy to... lose control with things that feel good.
Parasocial relationships are no exception.
It's so much easier... to participate in parasocial relationships than it is to participate in real life ones.
And if that ease prevents us from going out and making real life decisions, then we have a problem.
Because at the end of the day, Those are not real tangible relationships.
That... persona is not going to be there for you when shit hits the fan.
It's real in the sense that you feel real emotion.
And it's real in the sense that whatever, you know, persona that you're in the relationship with does exist to an extent, but...
It's not real because you don't sit in a room together and you can't call that person a in a time of need.
I also think people can drown themselves in a parasocial relationship to a point They don't even care about their own life anymore.
It's become all about this other person, persona, whatever.
In the fans, life can suffer as a result.
And it's like, what happens when you wake up from this sort of... haze that you've been in in this parasocial relationship and you realize I've kind of let my life go a little bit because I got so... sucked into this relationship that isn't even real really.
And now my real life in reality has fallen to pieces. that's not a place you want to find yourself in.
So again, Making sure that the relationship is just a small detail of your life. rather than the focus of your life is so important.
To piggyback off that point, I want to sort of zoom in on how parasocial relationships can damage your real relationships.
If you start spending too much time in a parasocial relationship, And you start finding a level of fulfillment in that that goes beyond what you have in your real life. you might completely abandon all real relationships in your life.
And even worse, you might lose inspiration to find something new friends or a new significant other because you're like, Well, I'm already satisfied with my parasocial relationship.
I don't even need that anymore. And that is so dangerous because you can't be complacent with your social life.
Parasocial relationships can also negatively impact our self-esteem.
You know, the person that we have the parasocial relationship with isn't sharing every detail of their life. as a fan you're consuming the best of the best from them.
I mean you might see some emotional moments, you might see some challenging moments But for the most part, you're seeing them in a manicured... controlled environment.
You're seeing them in their best moments for the most part.
Or in some cases, you're seeing them in a completely fictional context. in a movie or TV show. you're seeing them quite literally as a character.
They're not even real, right? They are, but they're not.
Naturally, We compare ourselves to people.
And in parasocial relationships, we can compare ourselves to to those who were in the parasocial relationship with.
And... That can really fuck with our self-esteem.
We feel like we know everything about this persona.
We feel like we completely understand it.
And we compare ourselves. to something that we feel so close to when in reality, we don't know everything about that person.
We don't have all the context. And in some cases, we're comparing ourselves to an unrealistic character. with fictional characters, right?
But it's so easy to convince yourself when you're in a parasocial relationship, that everything that you're seeing is true and that there's nothing else going on behind the scenes.
And that can be dangerous because not only can it lower your own self-esteem because you're comparing yourself to something that's inaccurate by nature, but it can also set unrealistic expectations for yourself, your other relationships, that your life will pan out, it can set unrealistic expectations which will lead to disappointment as well as lower self-esteem.
And you would think, well, with a parasocial relationship, there's no way that heartbreak could be involved.
But that's not true at all. There's so much... room for heartbreak with parasocial relationships.
Like let's say your favorite celebrity Quits the internet.
Just quits and goes away one day and deletes everything.
That could be heartbreaking for a fan. Let's say news comes out that your favorite celebrity is a bad person.
That could be heartbreaking. Or let's say your celebrity crush starts dating somebody.
That could be kind of heartbreaking. Or your favorite band breaks up.
Or your favorite TV show stops running. Or...
Your favorite movie announces that it's not coming out with a round two. or around three, listen, I don't think heartbreak is completely negative.
I think it's crucial for growth in a lot of ways.
But also it isn't fun, right? Like heartbreak isn't fun.
For anyone. It's uncomfortable. It's painful.
And it's shitty. And as much as I think it can be... incredible for growth in life, I don't know if it's necessary to experience heartbreak in parasocial relationships.
Because we already deal with enough heartbreak in our real physical lives.
So I don't know, I think parasocial relationships should never get serious to a point where heartbreak is involved.
That's my opinion. But maybe it's okay.
I'm considering it a negative impact though.
Last but not least, parasocial relationships can become so strong to a point that they're blinding for fans.
Fans can become so blinded by their obsession with a celebrity. or persona, that they will literally...
Forget morals, values. the law, even, fans can become so infatuated that they are literally blind to reality in a way.
Now, this is definitely the most extreme negative impact, but I had to mention it because it is... becoming more and more common.
Fans will do morally wrong things to protect or defend the persona that they have the... parasocial relationship with.
And that can ruin a person's life. That's not good.
Not only does that have a negative impact on the fan, but it also has a negative impact on the celebrity. or persona, and it also has a negative impact on society as a whole.
So extreme obsessive and toxic parasocial relationships truly benefit no one.
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There are some, I mean, the pressure to maintain the relationship and please everyone's desires can be really overwhelming and really stressful.
It's impossible to please a thousand different people.
It's even more impossible to please a million different people.
But I think a lot of public figures feel the pressure to please the fans.
And to be honest, it's impossible. And that can be really upsetting for people public figures because they want to make everyone happy.
They want everyone to love them, but They'll never have that.
But it's a hamster wheel that's really hard to get off.
I think a lot of public figures are constantly striving to get as close... to perfect when it comes to pleasing everyone.
But again, it's just completely unrealistic.
And what I've noticed is that... Usually pleasing everyone means sacrificing the mental health of the public figure.
Almost always, if not always. Because pleasing... thousands or even millions of people can require... doing things that aren't fulfilling for the person. can require doing more than they can handle.
And it can take away the... the freedom in a way of the public figure.
At the end of the day, everyone on this planet has to do what makes them feel fulfilled and and happy and inspired and creative and excited.
And it can be really challenging to do that when you have thousands or even millions of people saying, what you're doing is wrong and you should be doing it this way or you should be doing it that way or why haven't you done this or when are you going to do that?
And that can really be challenging. But I think people who have a parasocial relationship with you can feel like, oh, I'm allowed to say that because I know you and you owe me something.
But the truth is, In a parasocial relationship, nobody owes anyone anything. because it's not quite a real relationship, right?
There are also parasocial bullies. You know, they always say, Your bullies are your biggest fans.
Your haters are your biggest fans. And it's because in order for somebody to hate you, they got to be keeping up.
You know, they got to be keeping up. They got to care a little bit.
But some people... can become so obsessed with hating you. that it becomes a parasocial bully.
You know, parasocial relationships can be hateful and angry in nature.
They're not all sunshine and butterflies.
And I don't care... who you are, getting bullied on the internet feels awful.
And it's happened to me and it's traumatized me to an extent.
I mean, not complaining. It's I. I'm on the internet, so I'm subjecting myself to that.
But I can still be traumatized by it. Just because I subjected myself to it doesn't mean that...
I am not allowed to be traumatized by it.
Of course I am. We're allowed to have our feelings and our experiences.
I think I'm not using enough conviction in my voice to portray how Traumatizing it feels to get bullied on the internet, but i'll save that for another day, but parasocial bullies are real and Wow, that sucks.
Last but not least. probably the worst part of parasocial relationships for the celebrity or public figure, or persona, is... how blinded fans can become to boundaries. people feel so connected to celebrities that they think, oh,
I own you. Like I literally own, like you are mine.
And I know everything about you. And I can do whatever I want to you because you're mine.
This is more common than you would think.
And this can lead to people overstepping boundaries in a way that is shockingly common. whether it's celebrities being watched through a window or a celebrity's house address being leaked and people trying to come into their house, or being followed around, or... people touching celebrities are trying to hug celebrities or kiss celebrities in ways that are completely inappropriate.
People being overly sexual and inappropriate in a way that makes celebrities uncomfortable.
The list goes on, but there are so many examples of boundaries not being respected. because celebrities are not always viewed as people.
They're kind of viewed as objects in a way.
On top of that, the parasocial relationship convinces the fan that this is a real deep relationship And I know this person like the back of my hand and I deserve things from them.
I deserve them to let me into their space.
I deserve... them to become my friend immediately if we meet, et cetera.
And all of that is incredibly uncomfortable for the celebrity.
Celebrities deal with a lot of complications from this. piece of parasocial relationships, whether it's fearing for their safety and privacy. or it's constantly feeling watched and surveillanced, or it's constantly being disrespected by fans who don't respect... their boundaries.
It's just mind-blowing how extreme parasocial relationships can... cause people to behave in ways that are unimaginable in any other context.
Like I'll give you an example. It would be, really wrong to bang on someone's car window.
In any context, okay? It's really... not a good thing to do to just bang on somebody's car window to get their attention.
But celebrities will be in their car and if fans notice them, Fans will just come and start banging on the window of the car.
In any other scenario, that would not be okay.
And it doesn't make it okay just because it's a celebrity.
It's not okay. It's never okay to show up to somebody's house uninvited and try to come hang out.
Just cause. but fans will show up to celebrities' house.
And just wait outside and think, why? Why?
I don't know. I don't know. But all these things... become okay, When a parasocial relationship is strong enough in the mind of the fan.
But that is... Not all parasocial relationships.
It's maybe more than it should be, but...
If you were to do the math, that's a very small fraction. but it does exist.
And you know, those people aren't bad people.
Usually I'm not like saying that by default.
People who overstep boundaries are bad people.
They just aren't looking critically at their actions enough.
And that is parasocial relationships. I think to finish off this episode, I'll share some of my favorite parasocial relationships I've personally had.
Number one, the Jonas Brothers. Growing up, the Jonas Brothers were my boyfriends.
All three of them. in a time when I was just suddenly becoming excited about boys. but was too young to really want to talk to them.
I mean, I was a 10-year-old or something.
It was really fun for me to imagine like, oh... what would it be like to go on a date with the Jonas Brothers?
Do you know what I'm saying? It's sort of began my journey, my relationship journey.
Like being able to imagine going on dates with them, I don't know.
It just, it helped me get comfortable with that idea because At that time, boys were really scary for me.
But imagining the Jonas Brothers and me... hanging out or going on a date, I mean, imagine me going on a date with all three of them at once um iconic but you get the point i think my most recent parasocial relationship That was like,
Not serious by any means. I'm not stalking anyone.
But I don't know. that was like the most impactful for me was when I was going through a really hard breakup a few years ago, like really bad.
Really bad, really dark. I just really leaned into my celebrity crushes and it really helped me get through it. it now the second I got in a new relationship I was like okay now I don't care but it served its purpose.
And it really helped me. You know, when I was falling asleep at night and I was like, oh, I was sad.
I was thinking about... My ex then I would think about my celebrity crush and what it'd be like to go on a date with them And hang out with them And that distracted me and made me feel better.
And it was incredible. Thank you all for listening.
Thank you all for hanging out. Enjoyed our time together today?
Our parasocial time together today? New episodes of Anything Goes every Thursday and Sunday.
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Just keep being awesome, and I hope you have a...
Beautiful day this week. I hope one of your days this week is really beautiful.
Not every day this week needs to be beautiful.
That's unrealistic, but I hope you have at least one.
Okay, I love you. Talk to you later.
