Hello, lovely listeners.
Robin here, and I am so excited to have Rosie and Headspace Mental Health Coach Nika on Dear Headspace with me today.
Now, we have some questions about loss today.
We'll be talking about what to do when you lose a parent, what to do when you're struggling to care about your work.
And we have a question about when you are struggling with fertility issues.
So the questions you know they're not always easy, but hopefully we have some helpful advice for you today.
So I say let's get started.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial?
Or a therapist you can call after a long day?
Or a mental health coach you can lean on for advice?
Someone to help you see things differently?
Welcome to Dear Headspace, a podcast where I sit down with Headspace experts and we answer your questions.
All right.
Hey, y'all, you heard the topics for today.
Are we going to push you to the edge of your wisdom and credentials?
That is the most important question to start with.
I mean, I don't think that's possible.
I don't know.
It's possible for me, but we'll see.
I doubt it, Nika.
Same.
Please, you two are the best.
I mean, I have all the faith in the world in both of you.
So I think we should just get right to the helping.
Are we ready?
Let's do it.
Okay.
Here's our first question from Sophie.
Hi, dear Headspace.
My name is Sophie and I love your show and the app.
My question is about work.
Lately, I kind of been struggling at the workplace.
First, I don't feel motivated at all.
I mean, it's hard to wake up every morning and find the energy and the motivation to do the job.
And on the other side, it seems like I also stopped caring that much about what I do.
I tend to compare myself to my coworkers because on their side, they always seem to be super motivated, super productive.
And I mean, I don't feel like that every day.
I'm not at my 100% every day.
And I put pressure on myself and I feel guilty and I feel bad because I'm not like that.
And I wanted to be like that.
And I can't seem to find the right balance for me to enjoy what I do at my own rhythm, at my own way.
And...
I just want to.
I don't know, I want, maybe I just need to clear my head and I can't seem to find the right tools on how to navigate all this.
Do you have any tips, maybe?
Well, thank you for this question, Sophie.
I mean, it sounds a little bit like a good old-fashioned rut to start off with and then add into it comparing yourself to others.
It's like if I were to judge my life based on what I thought people were doing, or how they're doing, or how well they look like they're doing on Instagram.
I mean, that's a recipe for disaster right there.
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that.
It always takes so much for us to be able to voice our feelings, especially if we have a deep sense of dissatisfaction with something that you know a lot of people maybe don't have a job right now right,
So I think that it's very courageous to be.
Just because you have a job doesn't mean that you have to like love it right.
She even talks about how I could hear and I could be wrong, but I could hear a little bit of self shame in there where she's saying I'm not having as much fun as my co workers.
And in a way, it's making her feel bad.
And I think look, a lot of us, even us here.
I'm sure Nika and Robin can relate to at some point in our careers being in a rut or feeling like we're stuck or unmotivated.
I think for me, I really have found that exploring what your extrinsic and intrinsic motivations are, extrinsic meaning what are the motivators outside?
Are you wanting a promotion?
Is there a place for you to move to?
Is there something to look forward to?
Is there a different part of your organization that you feel like you're more of a fit in?
If there's external motivators, that can potentially create some excitement.
I think that's really worth exploring.
And the intrinsic motivators are what is it about your job that attracted you in the first place?
Like, is there a part of the job that you still really connect with?
You know, maybe it's the company's mission, or maybe it's the people you work with, or just I think it's worth exploring when you are in a rut.
That's been my experience.
I feel like when I can really look at that from the perspective of where am I at currently?
And where was I before?
And where could I see myself moving forward?
Yeah, sometimes like, I find I don't know about you guys, but I find work to be cyclical.
When I get closer to summer, I have a lot like a feeling of like, really I gotta keep showing up, you know, or like, maybe near the holidays and stuff.
Then it takes like extra effort to.
Is it that or is it that maybe that you took a job that you?
It was just the job that was available at that time and it might be time to move on.
Like it's ripe for asking a lot of questions to yourself.
Yeah, I agree.
I think you know, if we look at this idea of your job, has to be your passion.
You know like I have to be passionate about my job.
And if you live in these United States of America, like that's the thing you're told, that and your job doesn't have to be your passion.
Right.
And so she could be working with, you know, people who just they love it.
We don't know what type of work Sophie does, but they may love it.
They love everything about it.
They could eat it every day, whatever it is.
Right.
And like, that's really OK.
So I think you know, even just kind of asking the question like does my job have to be my passion for some people?
Yes.
For others, maybe not.
But what is and maybe start exploring that thing, because we stay really focused on work.
You know, just like my job.
And I know we're there all day, every day, that kind of thing.
But you know, we want to begin to look at ourselves like in totality, like as a whole person.
You know, like as a whole person, who am I?
You know, what do I bring to the world?
And so it might not be necessarily the job, but what are you bringing there?
That is, you know this, this elevated part of you that you get to also bring.
And sometimes it's just having good relationships with people, your coworkers or you know.
Maybe you bring the snacks to the break room.
I don't know, but whatever that is like, it's really.
I think about this whole idea of just being a whole person.
And sometimes, sometimes we just define ourselves by our work too much.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Cause, like in my twenties, like I was so focused on where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do that it didn't.
It was just about the place, and then, as I've gotten older, it became about the people.
Yes, because it's like I don't, it's like it's too much of our lives to be around people who make me feel sad or whatever, and I want, I want to be around people that bring joy, and so it's like I.
You know, I do think, like Sophie, there's a question to be asked about like is this place the place for you, in addition to all these things that Rosie and Nika are saying, to ask like is this a place?
If you're just feeling like competitive with everyone?
Are you actually connecting with people?
Are there ERGs you could join?
Are there, you know, employee resource groups?
Are there after work activities that you could do?
Or do you go out of the work and just blow up your life in the most amazing way, like finding really great things that fulfill you, knowing that work is a paycheck and it's not a bad place to be, but it's a place I got to go for these hours?
Yeah, Robin, I love that.
I think that that's so on point too.
I think we also in our society, assign the role of our work, fulfilling every part of our lives right.
We have to be motivated.
We have to be excited.
We have to be selfless.
We have to be completely aligned and set.
You know just.
I think that we put so much pressure on ourselves.
And sometimes our job is our job and our outside life is our outside life.
And I think it's important for us to be present with wherever we are on our journey.
I think there's going to be times when we're in a situation that's not completely fulfilling us.
And I think that that's part of the process as well.
Yeah.
It's like not every job is going to completely 1000% satisfy you.
And that's okay.
I think that's just part of life.
You know, sometimes things are just meant to be for a season or for a reason.
And that's where we're at.
Might be some time for some, like inward questioning, whether it's journaling or talking to friends or talking to someone to help you kind of sort through why you're there and what you want, if it's more than just a rut, you know.
But regardless, I hope that you take comfort Sophie, in knowing that every single person in this room right now has been exactly where you are.
And it does pass.
It does pass.
It does.
It's true.
Okay.
All right.
We are going to move on to our next question from Judy.
Hi, Thea Hespace.
My name is Judy.
I live in Miami, Florida.
I'm originally from New York and I moved on here to be closer to my parents, where I actually live with them.
My father passed away on January 13th of this year.
And my question to you today is, what is your advice in dealing with his death?
Thank you.
Oh, Judy, thank you so much for your question.
And I mean, we just have to start by saying we're sorry for your loss.
That's just it's not easy.
It is not easy.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I mean, it's always such a difficult process to go through.
And you know, I'm actually really curious Nika, your thoughts on this too, because I feel like grief is so multilayered and multifaceted.
And I
I don't think there is one process that's one size fits all.
I think it looks differently.
I know that I've experienced loss throughout my life and it hits differently every time.
Sometimes it comes in waves and you might be okay one minute and not okay the other.
But the thing that I have found the most helpful since my older adulthood and utilizing practices like mindfulness to really give myself space, to know that anytime I feel an emotion, to allow it to be there.
I feel like a lot of the times we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to.
I'm going to do air quotes.
Get over something.
But I just don't know that we ever, I don't think grief is something that we get through or over.
I think it's just something that we learn to live with and that we process in our own time and in our own way.
And I think it's a really great opportunity to connect with others who have gone through the same process and to utilize this as an opportunity to connect with more people and to talk about how you feel.
And yeah, I'm a fan of letting the process be What it is and giving yourself the space and the grace to deal and process this grief.
However, however it comes,
Absolutely.
When I think of grief, it's just one of those things that just it ebbs and flows.
It's just not you don't ever get there. you know?
Yes.
There is no there.
There is no there.
There is no there.
And so when you lose someone, especially a parent, it sounds like you know.
Judy moved there right to be with her parents.
We don't know why, but you lose someone you know, who raised you like.
This person has always been a part of your life.
That's very difficult, right?
Like I lost my grandmother who, my grandmother raised me and it was like, surprise.
I was like, what do you mean that this happened?
And I just remember initially just being very numb, just not knowing how to feel or how I'm supposed to feel or what I'm supposed to do.
And the things that I took pleasure in, they weren't pleasing to me anymore.
They didn't feel good.
And so what I realized is that not only is this a change in my life, but this has changed me, right?
Like this grief, this thing has changed me.
And so you go through, I think it's five stages of grief is what they say.
Some people say seven, whatever.
But eventually there is an acceptance.
And acceptance doesn't mean, again, like everything's great.
It's fine.
It's okay.
It's been over like 20 years this year, actually. since my grandmother passed.
And some days I cry like it happened yesterday.
You know, some days, 20 years later, I do.
And other days, like, I'm okay, most days.
But I think allowing yourself to Rosie's point to feel whatever you feel and how you want to feel, I think is very important.
And understand you're going to go through these stages.
You're going to be angry.
You're going to have denial.
You're going to bargain.
You know, how can how can you come back or what can I do differently?
You know, you're going to go through that and it's going to be cyclical and all of that is okay.
And like, that's if I can impress anything upon Judy, like whatever you're feeling, it's okay.
And don't let people, because people can kind of try to talk you out of feeling your feelings, you know, and going through the process
Because they're uncomfortable.
People are uncomfortable.
Or it's not on their timeline, whatever it is.
It's not.
And so it's like, Forget your timeline.
This is where I am.
And so it is trying to figure out what is true.
Right.
Like you're trying to get yourself stable and get to where you need to be.
But again, I just I noticed that, you know, and some of my relationships changed because people could not hold space for me.
And I and I didn't know how much I needed people to hold space. until that happened.
And then I realized like, oh okay, if you can't allow me to feel my emotions and be in this space, then I, you know, maybe I reevaluate this friendship.
And that doesn't mean you end things or whatever, but it just makes you look at again.
It changes you.
It makes you look at life differently.
So I think becoming okay with that, you know, and processing that I think is really important here.
Yeah.
I've lost both my parents and One was.
I would say, expected is the wrong word, but like, it was kind of like when this is, this is the likely conclusion to a certain set of behaviors.
And it's just a when.
And then the other one was my dad.
I was like, oh, well, he's got all kinds of longevity.
He's not going anywhere.
And then it was like out of nowhere.
And.
Both of them hit me in completely different ways.
I had to process them in completely different ways.
And then there was you know levels of like.
When I lost my second parent.
There was like a feeling of like being untethered, like that foundational.
The people who brought me here and my history, family history, was gone.
And I had to process them both in completely different ways.
One was a faster processing, if that's even fair to say.
And the other was a little bit longer because it was unexpected.
So it's like you have to just be gentle and like let whatever's coming at you come at you.
And it will shift and it will change.
And it's completely different now for me.
Like now I just keep getting these visions of them watching me over my life.
I still miss them, especially like through my kids.
You know, because I'm like, oh God, right now my mom would love how how much my son is acting up, because I'm pretty sure I did that to her.
So it's like I'm like she'd be laughing hysterically.
You know, it's like so all of these things, I miss them.
I wish they were here to see things.
But I it's now in a different place.
So it's just like to Nika's point as well, like riding it wherever it goes, it will shift.
It will change.
I think the thing we haven't said is. which I think we all know, is it's just hard.
It's just hard.
Yeah, it's hard.
There's this quote that says, the pain of grief is the love of two hearts moving into one.
Your heart has to grow to now encompass two hearts' love in one.
And I just really love that because I'm like, oh okay, now I have that living within me and i and i can, you know, process that and and still feel sad and, you know, go through the stages of grief on my own time.
But i know that you know love, love is eternal right, absolutely.
I think too, there are so many different ways to honor the people you know in our lives that you know we, we lose.
I think you know, as we think about ways, judy of you know, dealing with this process.
You know finding ways when you're ready to honor, you know, your dad, and just you know figuring out what that looks like.
You know, some of his favorite things.
I don't know.
Maybe you go buy more of them.
I don't know what it is, but finding that you know to do like for me, stuff like cooking or baking, definitely honors my grandmother.
For one, I don't cook and or bake like that, so when I do it I think about her right, because she just really like she could cook stuff from scratch.
Like I never had like a birthday cake like from like like a box made type birthday cake, like until I was maybe like 10 years old and I'm with somebody else's birthday party and I was like I don't know the cake tasted funny right, It's just because I made mine from scratch.
Oh, OK, now I get it.
I didn't know it was a thing.
But when I, you know, bake from scratch again every now and again, like I'm, it's like an honor of her, you know.
So fine.
Mine is with my dad.
He was like always like redoing the house.
So it's like any time I paint the house or like our apartment or I like sand something or do something like construction.
I'm always like, I know he's right there watching.
Like, it's just it's like they're.
They're with you in whatever ways they were with you when they were here.
Yeah.
Well, Judy, we are with you.
We are sending love.
We are sending compassion.
And just good luck on the roller coaster of grief.
It'll get better.
All right.
Let's go to our last question from Jill.
Hi.
Hi.
My name's Jill, and I just wanted to let you know first and foremost that I love the show.
And I'm hoping that you can help me because I'm struggling right now with infertility.
My husband and I have been trying for a couple of years and we just went through another round of IVF that didn't work.
And I don't know, I'm just looking for some support, I guess.
Thank you, and thank you for all you do.
Thank you, Jill.
Thanks for listening.
And I'm just sorry you're in the middle of this right now.
It's.
You know, I've been through the fertility process, you know, for different reasons.
Obviously because I'm part of the LGBTQ family and there is no other way to make the kids than to to do that.
So it's but I know that the process is is fraught.
It is fraught with, you know, the stakes are high.
The money you spend is a lot.
And there's a pressure.
I always say, you know, I used to host a podcast about LGBTQ family planning.
And we used to talk all the time about.
The moment that you decide you want to have a kid is the moment that you want that baby there.
And however long it takes to wait, you start doing math and you start doing, you know, it's just it's it's a road and it's a process.
And And the worst part about it is that all those worries and all those concerns don't help fertility rates.
So it's like you're in this, I must relax, I must relax.
And then there's the sadness and the grief that comes when it doesn't go the way you want it to go.
So that's a very long-winded way of just saying I understand and I hear you and you are not alone, and it is hard.
Yeah, I mean.
This is obviously something close to my heart as well.
Robin, as you know, it is a tumultuous journey to take, once you do make that decision.
Yeah.
And it really is.
I mean, it has been some of the highest highs and lowest lows, I would say.
So Jill, I just want you to feel seen, heard, and understood.
And I think that so many women are going through this process, have gone through this process.
Some have succeeded.
Some have, I don't want to even say not succeeded.
Some have succeeded in other ways.
And some are in this just state of limbo of the not knowing.
And I think there's so much uncertainty.
There's so many emotions.
There's so many experiences to grapple with.
And I would say now being on, I'm still in that uncertain plane.
I'm in the limbo, right?
So I can speak more to the state of being in that in between.
I wasn't, you know, we tried for many years.
I was unable to have a successful pregnancy.
We tried a bunch of other options.
And then ultimately I went into perimenopause and then I went into menopause.
And so now I'm postmenopausal.
And in order for me to go that route, there's a different process.
But still in that In the last, you know, I went through this for the last six, seven years.
And like I said, some of the most challenging times in my life.
And I think that I learned a lot.
You really start to go into your motivations for why and how you want you know what it means to be a parent, why you want to be a parent.
It puts you in that place.
That Robin was talking about how, when you make that decision of having a child, you want to have that child right away.
Then, when it doesn't happen, you are overwhelmed by all the circumstances to which it is not happening for you in that moment.
And I think it can be extremely, extremely emotionally taxing for the person going through it, for the partner that you're with.
If you have a partner and you're doing it with somebody, or just as a communal unit, if you have a support system around you, it's a really taxing thing to go through.
And I mean, I'm looking at us even having this conversation.
I'm like this is a much longer conversation, that we need more time to discuss, rather than trying to give somebody a quick tidbit of wisdom on dealing with it, right?
I feel like this is one of those conversations that really needs to be expanded on, unfold.
We need to really unpack what's there, because I think for me and my process and I'm curious to hear both of your perspectives on it The biggest thing that I struggled with the most was the shame of not being able to do to do something.
There is a lot of shame, and also that you need help and that it's not going the way that it does for everyone else.
There's a lot in there and people don't talk about it.
People don't talk about it.
They don't talk about miscarriage.
They don't talk about any of it.
It's I'm always like we should be talking about this.
Why would you go through something so heartbreaking and so hard without the support of the people that you love around you?
That is mind blowing to me.
That's so much to not discuss.
I personally have not.
I don't have children and don't plan on.
I've not had some of the same concerns, but I've had friends that have.
And one of the things that stuck out to me was Just having the support you know, just being able to talk about it to your point Robin, that people don't talk about this at all.
They don't talk.
Like you said, none of the things that especially we, as women, should be able to talk about like nothing is broken within us.
You know nothing.
And why wouldn't you talk about it?
Because I think society is like shamed you into saying like something's wrong with you.
Exactly.
If you can't have a child, if you can't do, oh, something like what's wrong?
Nothing is wrong with you.
With me.
Yeah.
Well, and it's like I feel the same way about miscarriages.
Like I had a miscarriage and and it was like I had been obviously because of my fertility journey.
You know, it's like you're going to the doctor every five seconds.
So it's like I was very vocal about where we were in the process.
And I realized I was so thankful to have that everyone knew, so that when the miscarriage happened I had all that love and support around me.
So I mean.
So Jill, I mean I think that's if you're not talking to people, talk to people.
Talk to the people that you love, that are around you, because they can offer you support and you will hear.
I can't tell you how many people who were like, oh, I also had a miscarriage once I said it.
Yeah.
And I was like, you did.
You did.
You did.
And that made me feel less alone, because the process can make you feel very alone.
Part of my healing journey too, has been to be able to talk about it, because I see the response from people.
I mean, I post about it.
I've done podcasts about it.
I'm actually really grateful that we have done a collection for it, for Headspace, one that I feel like I just I'm so excited about.
I think it's going to help so many people feel seen, heard, and understood.
And I think In my process the point that I was trying to make that has helped me the most has been to be able to share about it when I was ready right.
When I felt like I could utilize my words properly and be able to express myself without feeling like I was naked.
Because a lot of the times I think in the beginning, we feel so there for me, I'll speak for myself.
There was a lot of shame.
There was a lot of guilt.
There was a lot of feelings of inadequacy.
I felt like there was something wrong with me.
And the things that I was getting from people in my immediate circle were a little bit negating of my emotions.
They were saying things like, don't worry, it'll happen.
Like, oh, keep trying.
It's not a big deal.
You're like, could I have access to your savings account to continue trying?
Thank you.
Yes.
And part of it too was the miscarriage.
Over the span of two years, I had three miscarriages.
And even going through that, I would get the feedback from people that knew me, you know, or even one of my doctors saying to me your body is the enemy, you know, so you have to, you know, you have to be able to navigate this in a way that is going to serve your intention of trying to get pregnant.
Meaning I was doing something.
Of course I was doing something wrong in this process, right?
It's really such a heavy and complicated topic that I really feel like I don't want to offer Jill any advice.
What I want to offer her is to just let her know that I, I hear her and I see her, and and I have so much compassion.
Yeah.
And you're not alone.
I have compassion.
We're in this together.
Like this is a community of, And I think that that's that's really what I want to offer her is to have her know that she's held.
We had.
We had a couples therapist that we went to who said you know, like when you want to be a parent, it's important to build a community of of people around you to help you support, like being a parent, because it's so difficult.
And I think, I always think, that starts now, before you even are pregnant, before you even have the child.
It's like building the community of people that will listen to you, that will support you, that will not negate your feelings, that will understand that you're in a place that's really hard.
And I think that's some of the best advice I ever got was to just start thinking about that as like building a community that's going to be with me through all of it.
So Rosie, you alluded to this earlier, but Headspace just added a collection called Support Your Fertility Journey.
And it's essentially help for anyone who's on a fertility journey, and it's going to help you take care of your mental well-being.
And it includes which I think this part is so cool five audio conversations with Eve and our dear Rosie right here, and mental health coach Shula.
And they dive into their feelings about isolation and self-care and grief.
And there are accompanying meditations that are going to help you, no matter where you find yourself on the fertility journey.
So check out that collection, support your fertility journey.
And Jill, we're with you.
You're not alone.
I mean, that's all there is to say, I think.
Yeah, I agree.
Wow, you guys, that was just incredible. incredible conversation.
I mean, I am always blown away by how there is hope in the answers, even for really really hard questions.
Yeah, and I love that there is always hope.
And I'm really, really grateful for everybody that's listening to this podcast.
We get such great questions.
And it just makes me realize how important having a space like this is for people, especially people listening to this podcast, people out in the You know, and I think there are some people who might want a bit more help.
And Headspace is now offering mental health coaching in the Headspace app.
And so what's pretty cool about that is, if you sign up, you're going to get connected with a trained expert, someone like our wonderful Nika here for live one-on-one care and support.
And it's help on your time and you can do it from anywhere.
Pretty fabulous.
For sure.
And I think the most important part is, whatever you're going through, your coach is there for you every step of the way.
Yeah.
And speaking of being there for you, Deer Headspace is here for all of your questions.
So just send them to us.
It's pretty easy to do.
You just go to sayhi.chat slash Deer Headspace and follow the prompts to record.
That link is, of course, in the show notes.
And if we use your question on Deer Headspace, you're going to get three months of Headspace for free.
Yay.
Okay, friends, we're always aware that we talk about some deep topics here.
So we think it's really important for you to give yourself a moment with everything you just heard.
So we've built in some time for you to process and reflect, even if it's just for a moment, before you move on to the next thing.
Here is the peaceful sounds of a campfire crackling.
As you listen, let your mind do whatever it wants to do.
Until next time, stay happy, stay healthy and be kind to each other.
Dear Headspace is a Headspace Studios original podcast.
It's executive produced by Morgan Selzer and Sarah Cohn and produced by Taylor Jennings Brown.
It's hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Rosie Acosta Keisunga Giscombe, Dora Kamau and Eve Lewis Prieto.
Post-production by Dan Kroll.
Music by Scott Sorensen and Chris Mergia.
It was developed by Ash Jones, Scott Sorenson, Robin Hopkins, and Barron Farmer.
And a special thanks to Danny Karasamy and Colleen Lutz.
