This is an All Ears English podcast episode 1449, a natural way to offer two options in English.
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Today, a listener asks us a good question about how to offer options in a natural way in English.
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Hey, Lindsay, how's it going?
Excellent, Michelle.
How's everything with you?
What's going on in New York?
Oh, you know, nothing much.
I'm actually with my parents right now, so that's nice and uh yeah yeah, it's good to see them.
So um, that's been, that's been a nice bright spot.
How's everything with you?
Good, i'm also thinking about going to the east coast.
Oh, are you october to see my parents?
Yeah, you know, i haven't seen them since christmas.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, i mean With COVID and everything, I've kind of avoided it.
But I don't think I'll be able to go home for Christmas this year or Thanksgiving honestly, just because we don't know what's going to happen with COVID and everything.
So I want to go home to the East Coast in the fall, when it's beautiful, and spend some time with them and maybe introduce them to my new puppy.
Yeah, all right, all right.
So are you thinking of road tripping out there?
I think we will road trip out there.
Yeah, you're the road tripper.
I love road trips, michelle.
I mean, this one might not be the best.
I personally like the westward road trips less than the east road trips um, just because the west is amazing, but any road trip is okay.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
So Lindsay, are you free tomorrow and or next week to do some extra recording?
Like whatever we could get done would be great.
Oh, tomorrow and or next week.
I am.
I could do that.
I could be open to that.
Sure.
OK, awesome.
So, Lindsay, what did I mean by that?
I mean, I said and or.
Yeah, you said and or.
So you kind of meant either or.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it's kind of a way to say that you're pretty flexible and open.
Like it could be tomorrow or it could be next week or it could be both, is kind of what you're saying.
Right, right, right.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
So we're going to get into this more today because we have a listener question about it.
So Lindsay, would you read the question for us?
Yes, I love when we have a good listener question.
So another listener from Iran.
So Reza says, And so she says, good day.
I wanted to know how to pronounce and or when we encounter it in a sentence.
For example, dot, dot, dot, and or improving our skills.
Thank you very much.
Love you and your lovely podcast.
Okay.
Thank you, Reza.
That's fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, that is a good question.
I am excited to talk about this.
This is very common in English.
So before we get into that, guys remember, take a second right now and hit subscribe on your podcast player.
Wherever you're listening to this podcast, hit subscribe because you don't want to miss anything.
So take a second.
Three, two, one.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
All right.
Thank you.
Okay.
Awesome.
So let's get into it.
So again, great question.
Lindsay, do you use and or?
Yeah, I do.
I do.
Especially when I'm writing.
Less when I'm speaking, I think.
It feels kind of weird to speak it, but I definitely would write it in an email sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, we're going to talk about how to pronounce it and how to use it in English.
So, again, you just say, when you see it, you will see and. slash or, right?
So their listener was asking about, you know, how to say it.
So it's and slash or, but you don't say the slash.
You just say and or, right?
Yes, exactly.
That's the key takeaway from today, right?
So just say and or.
Don't say that slash there.
That would be weird if you pronounce that wrong.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So just and or.
So like, oh, do you have any apples and or oranges?
Yeah.
And that sounds kind of weird.
And or oranges, right?
Yeah.
And or oranges.
That's hard to say.
Yeah.
So I mean, like you were talking about, it really means kind of like one or the other or both.
So it means option a, option b or a combination.
So yeah, so it's kind of like when you're trying to express that you're quite open to different options right, like If you know someone's busy and you're trying to schedule a meeting with them, you may email this, email it like this you know, could we meet up this week?
Or, you know, or well, I guess and or wouldn't make sense there.
But let's just say you're trying to be flexible, right?
You're trying to leave yourself open to a lot of options and putting it in their control as to what to choose.
Right, exactly.
So it's kind of like when I asked you in the beginning of the episode, I said are you free tomorrow and or next week to do some extra recording?
Whatever we could get done would be great.
So maybe, yeah, maybe this would have been more like in an email.
Like I could definitely say this in an email.
So I'm asking you if you are a free both tomorrow and next week.
Right.
So maybe I'm thinking OK, we got to get a lot of stuff done if we could do both, or be free just tomorrow, or see free just next week.
And I'm fine with all of it.
I just want to I would love to meet one of those times or all of those times.
That's like you said, kind of being flexible.
You just want to record the podcast, right, Michelle?
You don't care when.
Exactly.
I'm just so excited.
No, I am like, no, I'm, you know, because let's imagine maybe one of us has a vacation coming up or something like that.
So that's when we might use it, right?
We're trying to schedule something.
The idea is that any of these options could be helpful.
So I think oh, maybe if we did three episodes here, four episodes the next week, but even if we just do one extra day, that will be good.
Totally.
And we have written things exactly like this, guys.
This is real English, right?
It's very real because we often do have to record a lot of episodes at the same time within a week or two, if we are going on vacation or someone needs to take time off.
So very realistic, very good natural situation, guys.
Okay.
Good stuff.
Right, right, right.
So could I have just said or?
So could I have said, are you free tomorrow or next week?
Yeah, you could have said that for sure.
Yeah.
It's just showing a little bit less flexibility.
Right?
Right, right.
It maybe seems that I want to do just one or the other.
That's what I think it sounds like.
I mean, if I said just and, are you free tomorrow and next week?
I'm asking if you can do both.
Not one or the other, right?
Right.
And you might be available for only one, but it sounds like I'm asking you about both.
Like, it almost sounds like I'm saying, like, unless you can do both.
Yeah.
Like, you know?
Yeah.
For tomorrow and Friday, you need to say yes or no for both.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, um, yeah, when we already talked about with or so.
Um, yeah.
So I think that this is definitely helpful.
I feel like I see it in writing more, like you said, Lindsay.
Oh, yeah.
I may say it from time to time, but definitely good for writing.
Yeah.
I mean, certainly you wouldn't say it in any kind of fancy presentation.
It's really about logistics, right?
This is about making plans generally.
That would be kind of the use case for this, I think.
Yeah, I think that's one that's really helpful.
I think using this really only works if the first option, the second option or both options are actually possible.
That's when you have to really think about what's actually okay.
Right.
Because if you'd go and say and or, they may say, yes, all of those work.
Right, right.
And one of them may not be possible for you.
Don't get yourself in trouble.
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah, it could get all sticky there.
So let's do a couple other examples.
So here's one.
Lindsay, do you have a job and or place to live in San Francisco yet?
I may have some leads.
Okay, yeah.
So do you have a job and or a place to live?
Yeah, so you're asking about all of the above.
Right.
Well, right.
And I'm I'm talking I'm saying so does it sound like I have leads on the job, the place or both?
Both.
I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm saying I might have for all of those things.
Maybe I'm very well connected there or whatever.
So I'm right up in my new life in San Francisco.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Oh, man.
I've been to San Francisco only once.
Do you like it?
Yeah, I mean, I was pretty, pretty little.
So I don't remember much, but I'd love to go back.
Yeah, I went there on my road trip in 2016.
We actually filmed some footage for the Connected Communicator.
It's a great city, but it's becoming so expensive nowadays, you know, just because of the tech world, Silicon Valley and all that.
But it's a cool city.
There's still like an artsy vibe to it.
Yeah yeah, i'd love to go again one day, one day, so i don't think i'd ever live there.
No, i don't think so.
I think it's just like astronomically expensive um, and it's kind of cloudy.
It's kind of like the weather is kind of like not not like seattle cloudy rainy, but kind of cold and like um yeah misty, i guess, a lot of the time, not not as much sun as far as i know.
Yeah Yeah yeah, definitely.
I know that it is colder.
So yeah, it's a little colder.
Yeah.
All right.
So next one.
So you're not really moving to San Francisco, but you know, I'm not.
So all right.
What's another example, Lindsay?
Let's see.
Where is the next?
Okay.
It's important to live in a place where you have friends and or family.
So it's like, yeah.
So in this case, you're throwing it out there.
You're saying friends, at least friends or family or both.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Exactly.
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Here's another one.
Okay.
Maybe a waitress would say, okay, you have the option to get up to two beverages.
Would you like coffee and or orange juice?
So this is a good example because you're not just saying coffee or orange juice, right?
You don't have to choose one.
You can choose two.
So you could say, I want both.
I want coffee and orange juice.
Are you an orange juice drinker?
I used to be when I was a kid, but I stopped drinking OJ.
OJ, by the way.
Everyone says OJ, right?
No, I kind of stopped drinking it when I realized how much of a sugar bomb it is.
No, I know.
I know.
It is very good, but I know.
It's good.
Like if I go to a nice brunch and it's fresh squeezed, I'll definitely have it.
But I don't buy it in the cartons from the grocery store anymore.
I just do water and coffee.
Yeah.
I know you do coffee.
I um okay awesome, so when to use this?
So lindsay, you were talking about logistics.
That's definitely good.
You know, something interesting when i was looking into this is i've heard that it's not really that useful for formal writing.
Yes, what do you think?
Yes, actually i'm glad you said that because i think i've seen this written somewhere lately.
Um, And this would be another question to ask our IELTS experts over on the IELTS Energy podcast guys about your writing tasks, right?
But I think if you're writing academic writing, you should not be writing and or because it's not being specific.
Right.
And we always want to be specific and exact and good, concise writing.
Right.
Where and or we've talked about it's kind of a flexible expression.
Exactly.
So, yeah, not not quite specific.
It's kind of lazy in good writing.
Yeah.
Right.
Like if you're writing and or it's lazy.
What are you trying to say?
You're saying this or that or both or what?
Be more specific.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I agree with that.
I mean, that's like, I mean, we could do other episodes about this.
But like when people when people ha ha ha, I just broke the rule.
When someone says Oh, people always say that you know in writing and it's like that's a no right.
Right.
Right, right, right, right.
There's some very, yeah, exactly.
I mean, when I learned writing in college, it was all about, yeah, don't be general like that.
Don't be generic, use specific examples, be concise, and don't be lazy.
So...
Definitely, definitely.
So yeah, but guys, this isn't about you know that whole rule, because it is used, but that's definitely something to think about, about you know how.
It's maybe not good for your academic writing, for your formal writing.
But whatever the rule is...
It's not the focus of today.
We're talking about how we can use it.
The point is, I mean, I see this in so many places.
Even when I did a quick Google search, I would see it in tons of news articles.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, I did.
But I think it may be a good idea to avoid it, you know, in general.
So I did see it in writing when I was looking it up, but, you know...
I wasn't really looking into academic writing.
So maybe it's okay in news or things like that.
But I mean I've also.
It's funny because I heard I saw something that said it's good for legal documents.
And then I also saw something that says you shouldn't use an illegal document.
So...
That might have something to do with lawyers wanting to be broad when they write a contract but specific when they sign one.
I don't know.
Like we'd have to have a lawyer on the show.
Yeah.
Who knows?
Maybe someday we'll branch into legal English as a special offering for our listeners.
That would have to come for that.
In that case, we'd interview lawyers.
We'd get them on the show, guys.
But yeah, that's a good question, Michelle, whether or not that is good legal language.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So let's talk about just before we go, a few examples of when this may not work.
Good question.
Lindsay, could you read this example?
Okay, here's an example that does not work, okay?
I could really go for some cake and or cookies for dessert.
Yeah, why does that not work?
I don't know.
It just sounds awkward.
I would just say cake and cookies or cake or cookies.
Like, it's just a little bit awkward sounding.
What do you think?
Yeah, i think it's just too.
Again, i think this is useful when it comes to logistics, so it seems kind of silly to bother to say it's like you're putting too much effort into it.
Yeah, just say one.
Just instead just say cake or cookies or both, yeah.
Yeah, it's not necessary, i think, to show like your flexibility in there.
You know what i mean, and i think i think one of the keys here is that we are looking for a response from the other person right when we say and or it's kind of like we're offering options and here you're not looking for a response, you're just saying this is what I want, yeah.
So that might be why it's awkward too, Definitely.
Or this example, I'm looking to rent a house and or an apartment.
That's strange because you wouldn't rent a house and an apartment.
I mean, unless you have a lot of money.
I mean, you know, like likely you're looking to have one or the other.
So, yeah, if it's not if you aren't actually considering both, you should just use or.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
So and then guys, you know if somebody uses and, or if you see it and you're not sure what they mean, feel free to ask.
Yeah, definitely ask.
Make sure you're clear on what's being offered, what's being said.
OK, we just need to know what's being presented.
So what's the main thing that we should think about here, Michelle?
Yeah, you know, are you being specific is and or what you actually want to say?
And are you really okay with either option or both?
If you're not, don't say that because you can get yourself into trouble.
Especially when it comes to making appointments, offering up your time.
If someone says I want your time on Tuesday and Wednesday and that's not what you meant, you're in trouble at that point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then also, just you know, think about I like what Lindsay said that it's often when you're kind of like engaging in a back and forth maybe you're looking for a response.
I mean, you know, otherwise it could be awkward, like some of the examples we gave.
Yeah.
Cookies and or ice cream now.
Just say you want cookies or ice cream.
It's too much.
It's too much to say.
It's too much.
Too logistical.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
I love this question.
So guys, remember, again, subscribe to the podcast so that you don't miss anything.
Right, Lindsay?
Yeah, definitely.
And send us your question.
I mean, We are getting a lot of questions over on Instagram, but send us your questions.
This has been a fun one for us to kind of throw around in our minds and kick out to you guys and give you a chance to figure it out right.
So give us these specific questions.
We love these questions.
Really good stuff.
Yeah, I saw this one and I was like, ooh, I'm excited for this one.
Good stuff.
What's the takeaway for our listeners, Michelle?
Well, I was going to ask you, but I guess... Oh, okay.
I was going to say, you know, some people, you know...
And or isn't always appropriate.
That depends on writing or who you're talking to or whatever it is.
I think it can be useful.
And I personally see and hear it all the time.
I may not say it that often, but I might.
Um, and I think this just kind of comes down to what you, what do you actually read and hear in your conversation.
So listen for this, look for this, see where it is in writing right, do I mean?
I always do like a google search and then I look, I press news, and that's How I can really get some really good examples.
That's one of my favorite ways to get extra, extra examples.
You mean like if you go over to Google and then you select news instead of just like articles?
Is that what you mean?
Yeah.
Oh, very cool.
So then I can look for the word and see how it's been used recently.
You know, I love that.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
Guys, go ahead and yeah, take Michelle's advice on that one.
I've never thought about doing that.
But that's a really great way to see it written in the news or in any medium you want.
It's all right there for you in Google.
Love it.
Definitely shout out to google um so, um.
And today we also talked about, you know interactions, how you would use this and remember and or not, and slash, or.
That's important.
That's important okay, michelle.
All right, good stuff.
Thanks for hanging out with me today on the podcast, as always, and i'll see you very soon.
All right bye, lindsay bye.
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