Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable. You're listening to Roundtable, I'm your homelain coming up from tech-driven success stories to AI-powered business models and China's e-commerce revolution.
It is always exciting to analyze the factors propelling China's as well as the world's economic development.
Today, I have the privilege of hosting two special guests, Lee Dong-ni, Associate Professor at Beijing Institute of Technology, and Danny L.
Barbosa, a student at the Yanqing Academy Picking University.
Together, we explore how new quality productivity forces, artificial intelligence, and e-commerce are driving industry upgrades with inspiring stories of technological advancements and AI-powered success.
I'm ready to listen to the most compelling stories of economic transformation and listen to the innovative ideas about the future development strategies.
Actually, I'm very excited to have both of you because Roundtable is no stranger to all these topics, but we can only do this from an outsider's point of view.
We read the fun stories, we try to analyze how technology is shaping our world, shaping the way we develop, but we do not have the ability to adjust or to analyze them from an insider's point of view.
And both of you are actually business insiders.
You've got original and authentic studies.
You've got real cases that you work with different enterprises, and you've seen the real success stories, which I am super curious about.
So I am ready to listen to the most compelling stories of economic transformation and innovation.
So let's first, again, introduce yourself a little bit.
Let us know what exactly do you do, especially Professor Lee.
Can you tell us in layman's term, what do you do about the research subjects in the academic world, as well as the projects you do in collaboration with different enterprises?
Okay. I am from Beijing Institute of Technology, and my major is computer science, including artificial intelligence, which is one of the key words of today's talk show, which is AI.
Well, about my specialized field is about intelligent optimization approaches, and their applications in, for example, smart factories and intelligent warehousing and logistics and so on.
In other words, we try to use AI or intelligent technologies to improve smart factories and logistics and other industries.
How smart are we talking about?
How smart? Well, somehow it's a maybe in future.
I mean, you know, we are so vast in our territory, and we have so many factories, and they have different developed levels.
Our future, we hope it will be to a high standard, for example, automation and intelligence, and to help people to reduce their costs and improve the quality of their products and help them to make money.
But you know, as for how smart, I think it would be, it would be, make some progress than before, if we can use the technologies to help people somehow to improve their efficiency.
I think it's somehow progressing how they're smart.
Yes. And the reason I'm asking this question is that you do research, and also you work with different companies in different enterprises, and we know different companies are different.
They have their strengths, they have their weaknesses, and with the help of artificial intelligence or computer science, they can somehow improve what they're really good at already, and maybe reduce the cost, maybe make the process, the manufacturing process safer, and also make it more automatic.
So these are the areas that I'm super interested in.
But later on, we can talk about some real cases and see how these new quality protective forces are actually helping maybe one company in a certain way, and that would be very interesting.
Okay. Yes. And for our other guest, Danielle, we know your research actually focuses on e-commerce, and to be more precise, a kind of cross-border e-commerce.
So can you further elaborate on exactly what you study?
And more interestingly, I am actually curious, because now you're currently in China, you're in picking university.
Why would you choose China to be the fulure for your flower to flourish?
Okay. So I'm going to give a brief introduction.
So my name is Danielle Bahbozad.
I studied in the third university of Rio before coming to China, and currently as Hong said, I am a new and China Academy as a low-enssociety major.
Well, my research into cross-border e-commerce started alongside 2020 when I was researching about the rich countries.
And I thought that looking into e-commerce was an interesting way of studying commercial relations between countries and the field of international relations.
And then I looked into BRICS, and I wanted to see how each BRICS country was developing there on e-commerce market, on the domestic side.
And then when I was looking to each one of those countries, I was really interested in what was cut on by the China case, because it was very much different for me to think that was happening in the reals.
And then I got curious, and then I ended up writing my final thesis on Chinese development, the importance of companies, and how digital companies emerged, and then how China was expanding that two other developing regions.
So I thought that looking into cross-border e-commerce was a very interesting way of seeing.
Not only how China was building these connections through commerce, but also how it was transferring technologies to other regions, and how those regions were developing together with China and how they're building this sort of thing.
And before I focus into China's office-lager relations, and some specific cases of these technology transfers that I can come and on, and now I want to turn my research into China to let an America to see what can be similar in these two cases here, and what is different, and what it can learn.
So yes. I know you scientists, to a commission hate this question, but as a journalist, I ask this a lot.
That is, if you have to use one word or one sentence to characterize the distinction of China's e-commerce sector, set it apart from others, what that sentence would be, or what that character you would consider it is.
I would say maybe norm, or what how can I explain this, but it's basically in China buying online and consuming online free-recommers and using digital means to pay for stuff specifically because digital also really popular in China is the norm or is something that is incorporated in society in everyday life.
So we take that for granted.
If you look at Brazil, of course we have digital methods and we have advanced technology being used for our consumption, but I would say it's not the same thing, it's not second nature.
And from what I can see is for some members, I never live in Southeast Asia, but it does seem to not be the same in China.
So I would say maybe the word would be norm is common, it's normality for you to buy online and engage with this consumption word through digital means in a way that it's not the same scale or the same routine like behavior as you're having China.
That is a really good answer and I enjoy it quite so much because I feel like if we've have in a way, take it for granted, the market environment, the e-commerce status of China for quite a while, then we must be doing something right and this kind of successful cases can be copied into other markets, into other areas of the world and the China solution might be helping other countries as well.
And we as Chinese people always like to see that.
And through all these years, China has been trying out different approaches in innovating, in improving the country's economic development in different sectors.
We see that from the very beginning, I think we concentrate on GDP a little more than the current situation.
That is, we want to make sure that the economic development is up to certain standard, but we have been moving away from this growth, maximizing orientation for a while and from quantity to quality, that shift has been made.
And through these years, technology, innovation has gained a lot of attention and a lot of momentum.
And especially these several years was the exploding development in artificial intelligence.
We see the potential and we see how artificial intelligence can help in a lot of different areas in different sectors.
But to be precise, how is artificial intelligence enabling enterprises to upgrade intelligently and digitally?
Is there any fun case that you'd like to share with us, Professor Lee?
Well AI is a new term probably because since 2022, when CHPT appeared to, so all of the world got shocked, wow, it seems so smart.
And actually China has been devoting our efforts into AI or intelligent technology for many years.
For example, in about 10 years ago, when I and my students, we do some projects with enterprises, especially with the manufacturers.
Well, just say that there are different levels of manufacturers in China.
Some of them are already very smart, but some are not.
Because they have been existing for so many years.
So they have many classical or traditional production modes.
In addition to some new production modes together in the same factory.
So it seems that how to scheduling their production is a very complex problem.
For example, when W11 shopping festival, the manufacturer for example, for producing toys for children, they receive a very big order.
But they do not know which order we should have the highest priority to take them into production and how to allocate their resources.
They have, for example, machines and robots and different workers with different skill levels and skill ranges.
How to organize their production lines is super complex.
According to human experiences, this problem can hardly be resolved.
And so intelligent technology, you can come up, you can use your efforts to do something for the factory.
And so we did some software.
I mean, using the new terms, it should be a maybe industry software, which is to scheduling everything, organizing their production lines.
And so we can tell the factory which order should take the highest priority and which workers and which robots and machines should be organized together.
In this shop floor, and producing for how much time, and everything can be arranged much better than they haven't the software.
And so this happened maybe 10 years ago.
I mean, since that time, there are many enterprises or manufacturers have been taking these actions or efforts to improve their productivity.
So that is actually a very good example.
This one we think about artificial intelligence because of chat GPT precisely, we think of their ability of talking like human being.
But actually their biggest strengths, maybe according to at least this example, is the fact that their computing power is definitely beyond an ordinary human brain.
We can do calculation, we can spend some time to figure out what is the priority.
But with computing science with artificial intelligence, maybe that is a blink of an eye and they give you the solution.
And the next hour, the solution changes according to different orders taking in according to the manufacturing power of a certain production line.
And that kind of adjustments, that instant reaction is what artificial intelligence really good at and can actually provide help.
And with all that, we can see a company moving upward, upgrading and making their manufacturing process better.
And once they do that, maybe that's one step in the development process.
And the next thing maybe what they want to do is to expand their business.
And in that area, perhaps Danielle would have some examples to share because once you have the ability to have a smooth production process, maybe you want to expand in the sense of your business model.
And now we see China, for example, EW is the capital of small commodities.
We have a lot of factories, manufacturing different things and they're taking their business from the domestic market, not away from the domestic market.
But expand from the domestic market to the international market as well.
And are they doing a good job?
Yeah, I do think that there are interesting projects regarding that happened on the past decade regarding the cross-border commerce zones that were creating China and then expanded to some other regions.
I can comment on that today and think it's interesting.
So for instance, the first cross-border commerce was creating Hangzhou in 2015.
It was a partnership between the other Babag group and the local Hangzhou government.
And starting in 2012 with the utilization of some of technologies to optimize production and to also to boost the commerce in the region.
And then in 2015 onwards, it was created a cross-border commerce zone that used, it was also AI technologies to optimize production and to better organize how it worked and also how you can put what was produced inside to the outside.
And then later, if I believe on 2017, 2016, the Babag group's sales and implement a very similar solution in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, thinking about how using these same technologies to also optimize e-commerce in Malaysia, not only for China and Malaysia commerce, but for Malaysia and international commerce with the Southeast Asia region and beyond.
So I think it's quite an interesting example of how domestic solutions that China used to optimize is already developed, already more mature the commerce market in other regions as well.
Yes, I think already things that are being used that I know for cross-borders, we're coming specifically as a professor of the E-Mension, are AI technologies use on CRM, customer relation types of platforms and also to warehouse management, which is already technologies that are being used to further expand the production in China to other regions and to better organize this production when you go to other regions.
And maybe finally, I can comment a little bit on the Alex Press case in Brazil, which I think is quite interesting because it's a presence that's being greater and greater with time.
But still, the Brazilian market is quite small.
And then I wouldn't say that it's a case of non-success, but it's a case of maybe trying to understand why is it not as successful as Alex Press as being in other places.
It's been growing for sure, but there's still some problems.
Many people mention infrastructure and many people also mention maybe how the Brazilian commerce sector is still not ready for embracing as much e-commerce as China is what I'm doing.
So yeah, maybe that would be a case of not exactly a failure of expansion, but an expansion that is not a represent successful yet.
That is a funny, unsuccessful case in a way, not the case precisely, but I see your point.
And actually, developing digital economy in that area, China's digital economy is among the most vibrant and fast growing in the world.
We know in 2022, the scale of China's digital economy accounted for 41.5% of its total GDP.
And its 5G penetration rate surpassed 50% in 2023, which is why Danielle has said that it's a norm for Chinese people to doing things, not only buying things, but booking trips, ordering or not making registration for hospital visits online.
We're doing basically everything online and there is the base for that.
And we're discussing about China's economic development pattern on today's roundtable.
It sounds like a very hard topic.
It sounds like the topic that only experts, well, you are experts, but it's not the kind of lifestyle stories that roundtable usually feature.
But the fact is that for us ordinary people, including myself, we find these stories intimidating, but they actually affect our daily lives quite so much.
We buy things online all the time.
We wish that the little toy we buy for our kid can deliver to us the next day.
But that actually depends on the factory.
Making them frumfin air really fast.
And then the shipping power, making sure the logistics is there to deliver the product to our doorstep.
So these topics actually matter quite so much.
And we look back to the past 10 years, for example, and we see the difference and we see the changes, but we really think about if we're not in the business, we really think about the policy behind it.
And we really think about the kind of reform and opening up the intricate strategies and different frameworks that have been propelling the development of these different industries.
So for roundtable listeners, maybe the word new quality, productive foruses is not that indifferent for them because they listen to our show and we try to introduce these new words, these buzzwords as much as possible.
And for those of you who find it a little bit strange, it actually refers to advanced productivity freed from traditional economic growth models and productivity development paths.
It features, for example, high technology, high efficiency and high quality and it is in line with the new development philosophy.
So that is my very simple understanding of this term from a professor, a expert's point of view.
What do you think is the best way to describe this new quality productive foruses, Professorly?
Well, I agree with your opinions, actually.
And I think different from the traditional productivity force, I think the new quality productive force, it emphasized more on the innovation or breakthroughs in science and technology, which can, for example, accelerate or improve industries, even generate new industries which benefit the whole economy, the whole society and the country.
So I think AI is one of the hardest issues in science and technology that is changing the world.
Based on your research, what are some of the domestic technological innovations in the field of AI technology that we should pay attention to?
Well, just yesterday I interviewed some of my foreign friends who visited China many times.
I asked them a question that what is the most impressive AI technology or application that you ever seen or experienced in China and they voted?
And you know what is number one?
I'm pretty sure it's not text to video or text to speech.
No, I, it's, well, when I test to video test to speech, they are popular everywhere in the world.
But as for China, they voted the number one is Vending machines.
Vending machines, right everywhere downstairs, by the streets, everywhere.
Because they were so impressed because they sold, I took nothing with me, no cash, no coins, no ID card, even no cell phone, no barcodes, just with myself.
This gains my face and recognized me and gave me the water I chose.
Just in a few seconds, they were so convenient, they were so impressed.
And once they say, oh, maybe it's tricky because maybe you have something in your cell phone, which is associated with your ID when you take your cell phone.
It recognized your cell phone and they know how the Vending machine recognized or it is you, don't need.
So we tested a prototype cell phone.
I took nothing. And the Vending machine recognized my face within one seconds.
And then it associated with my early pay or we should pay.
And then everything is done.
And this is the most impressive thing that they told me.
I think as for China, there are some AI applications that is really in the forefront of the world.
For example, like the self-driving, we can see some self-driving cars and taxis in some of the cities.
I love these examples because I see how the examples are actually changing our everyday life.
Yes. We say we want the economy to develop.
We want the technology to be driven to be the driven force.
But at the end of the day, we want a better life.
We want everybody to be able to enjoy what they do, enjoy their lives, to be happier, to feel the sense of achievement, the sense of happiness in their everyday and day out life.
And that is the key. And we are seeing those little changes and little achievements and little convenience happening in every corner we turn.
And that, in my opinion, is the most important thing.
We've talked about a lot of fun stories and examples about the past.
But looking forward into the future, do you, both of you, actually, I want answers from both of you that as do you see anything in the future that you think we should continue to do or we should move on from and instead doing some other things.
What is the future development path that we should take?
Yeah. I think as for AI or intelligent technology, I think we should identify our own problems and goals.
Well, there are some different situations in China as in other countries.
I think as we develop our AI technology, we have the best government support.
So we need to identify what goes and which feels and which domains we need to apply AI.
Sometimes I think it would be interesting for us to have maybe more Chinese experts own developing regions because we have a kind of tradition here.
It's quite interesting, quite good.
But we sometimes see that there isn't as many specialists in Latin America or especially living in South East Asia coming from China, at least on my own perception.
I may be wrong about this, but that maybe could be something for maybe the example that I was giving before on regards to Adibaba, Grinfect Expansion to Latin America.
And then you see all the transferring of this operation to there and all this investment and all this presence there.
But then you get there and sometimes you realize that you have a prevenous infrastructure or you have a prevenous domestic market of some of those countries.
And maybe I feel if you did the research before and then you communicated better than you could better adapt your own solution, which is already pretty good to their reality.
So I think that could be something.
But yeah, but it's still very a primary comment on myself because I think I would need to better research and understand better about this.
Yeah, look forward to that.
In the future, you might be able to come up with something even more insightful.
And we know that China's R&D investment has increased from over one trillion yuan, that is around 140 billion US dollars in 2012 to 3.3 trillion yuan in 2023, while the ratio of R&D investment in GDP increased from 1.9% to 2.6%.
And we also see that actually when it comes to young talents, it's also very impressive to see the total number of R&D personnel ranks now first in the world.
The full-time equivalent of R&D personnel has increased from 3.2 million person years in 2012 to 6.3 million person years in 2022.
And young scientific and technological talents have become the main force in scientific research while 80% of the National Natural Science Foundation projects are undertaken by young people under the age of 45.
And I see both of you are young talents and scientists working in your field.
And hopefully, after listening to today's roundtable, more and more people would like to jump into the big wave of making our lives better in our own ways.
And we've journeyed through China's innovative, economic landscape with the insights of Professor Lee Donee and Daniel Barbosa exploring the reform policies, industry upgrades that are redefining success and are transforming our lives.
So if you found this discussion insightful, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share the podcast.
Stay with us for more deep dives into the forces shaping our world.
