Discussion keeps the world's turning.
This is Round Table. Your listening around table with myself, who are young, I'm joined by Steve Hatherley, on the line at Ushan in the studio.
Coming up, your voice matters, and we want to hear it in our heart to heart segment, got a question, something you're itching to share, fire up that voice memo and hit us up at EZFM Round Table at boxmail.com.
And have you noticed your colleague in the next cubicle, could be enjoying some homemade lunches, whether you are a seasoned meal prepper, or a newbie to the lunch box game, there's something undeniably satisfying about packing your own midday lunches.
So let's swap recipes, share hacks and see if a new packed lunch style of dry and drab flies.
And you know what? It is popular right now.
And why we will discuss our podcast listeners can find us at Round Table China on Apple Podcast.
Now let's have a moment of heart to heart.
You ask. We answer. Round Table.
Heart to heart. First of all, we've got Mandy sending in a voice memo.
Hello guys, my name is Mandy and I'm a sophomore.
Though I started to pay attention to Round Table for only about two months, I learned a lot.
I think it was really surprised me when I listened to the English radio drama about Kool-Ai first time.
And I think it's not only an English radio drama, but love, peace, even someone's life.
I can't wait to meet their life as a listener.
I think it's a great honor and sense a lot.
To me honest, this is my first English email to someone.
And I have questions today.
It's about the language learning.
It's really necessary to learn a language today.
It is obvious that we have AI and some other translate tools like translation and pen.
I want to know is the language of the manager is also an advantage today for us students.
And I think whether I can use this advantage to be competitive with others.
And I would really appreciate for your reply.
Best wishes. Thank you so much Mandy for sending in this voice memo and sending us your first ever is it email in English.
Thank you very honored and we're happy to have you on the show this way.
So before we provide our responses, we have Mike from California who is a public schoolteacher in Seoul and also a friend of Steve's sharing his thoughts.
I think it is still necessary to study languages even though we have things like AI.
I analogize it to something like having a car or learning to drive a car, even though we have things like buses and subway and other transportation.
Having a car is more convenient for some and provides use for particularly people who need that kind of transportation.
Such as language. If you're just traveling and you need a couple of pieces of information, AI is really useful for that.
But if you want to live in a society where they speak into the language, you want to get in with the culture, get in with the people, you're not going to be able to do that as well if you have to rely on some sort of machine or another function to be able to relate to these people.
Especially if you want to have an intimate relationship with somebody or a more deep connection, AI is going to provide a barrier between you and that individual.
Thank you so much, Mike, for your response.
And you, Shana, I wonder how do you feel about this?
And also given the fact, you and I, we've studied a second language for decades.
So how do you feel about this?
Well, the first idea for me that I want to share with Mendy is that as a language learner and as a previous student of a major in language, like the English language and culture and translation, I will confess that yes, some facet of these majors were rather the jobs that this major is leading to will be replaced with time with the advanced technologies such as AI.
Because nowadays we are already seeing, like the example you mentioned, the Fenn E.B.
or the translation pen, tools like that.
They're already like helping us in so many ways.
But the purpose of developing such tools is to assist us rather than replace us in general.
So in order to assist us, it helps us to do things faster by doing things that was originally done by human beings.
But now they serve as an assistant.
But at the end of the day, you kind of need to ask yourself, like what kind of person you want to become in the future?
Like apart from all the tools or the assistance from the AI or other types of advanced technologies, do you want to be able to talk with someone from a different country or do you want to acquire the skill to speak various languages?
That's a choice that is up to you.
It's not really up to the purpose of learning alone.
We are taught to be capable at certain jobs or occupations in the future.
And you need to study hard and work hard to be ready for that.
But at the end of the day, it's still like a choice for our own future betterment.
So if it's something that you're up for, whether or not it's like a big market for AI, it's good for you.
And you just go for it, as long as you believe it's good for you and that you like it.
So yeah, that's my take.
Thank you. I have many thoughts about this, and I will just show my cards.
I am definitely pro learning another language and to a high level of proficiency if you can.
But I will just say one thing here, though.
If you are studying to become a translator, I suggest you pick a different occupation.
And just just give up on that.
Drop it now. Do something else.
There are still plenty of opportunities, but translation, I think this is something that we're already seeing.
There are too many platforms out there, too many tools out there to at least make.
I think mediocre level or pretty high level translation happen just like that.
But there are still many other reasons why I think it makes so much sense to learn English and maybe a different language.
But before I go on further, Steve, what are your thoughts?
Do share. In Canada, I grew up in school studying French and then after living in Korea for a short time, I started to study Korean.
And I think Mike made a good point.
You know, it's an interesting analysis, isn't it?
Comparing it to having a car.
You don't need a car. There's other ways to get around.
But it just makes things more convenient for you.
I think these types of tools are exactly that.
They're tools. They're supplements.
Can they replace language study?
Will there be a need for language study in the future?
I think it depends on the person.
So, Mandy, first of all, well done on your first English email to the station.
Hopefully, it's not your last.
I think you're studying English for a reason because you have an interest in it or you want it to be a part of your career.
And like Mike said, if you want to have a cultural experience, if you want to have a deeper interaction with perhaps in the future, your clients or your friends from different cultures, then I think that you need to be studying the language.
However, I had a conversation with a taxi driver in career recently who told me that he went to Vancouver for three months.
And he said he couldn't speak English at all.
We were chatting in Korean.
And I said, oh, how did you get around?
How did you communicate?
And he said, oh, pop-a-go.
And pop-a-go is a translation app.
So he said, whatever I wanted to say, I just said it into the app.
And then it popped out in English.
So if you're using it for that, that's amazing.
Now, that taxi driver has no need for English in his life.
He was like 65 years old now.
So for him, that's fantastic.
He can use that tool to the best of his advantage.
But for you, Mandy, it seems to me, I don't know you, but it seems to me that your language skills and your studying is going to be very, very useful in your future and your career.
So to answer your question, I would say these tools will not and should not replace language study in the future.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think they are really handy for tourists.
Also, I only just figured out.
And then, because the other day I was in the Apple Store and the human sales representative gave me a quick crash course on how to use one of the basic functions of instant translation.
And I didn't know that feature was always sleeping on my phone.
Well, teach me when you have time.
Yes, it's really easy, actually.
So I think if you're in a foreign country and you want to know the way, you want to order food or do the really basic stuff, it can do it all.
That's all sorted. But I still absolutely 100% think that learning foreign language is really useful.
Specifically, I would say English.
Learning English is still very, very useful because it is the primary language of AI development of technology, of the internet.
All kinds of technical documentation and research papers are all written in English, making it essential for anyone looking to work in these areas, making it essential for anyone who wants to get the latest cutting-edge information on this stuff you need English.
Of course, you can translate it, but you still need to find it.
And this search for the latest info and tech I think is most handy if you do it in English.
If you do it in Chinese, I think there is a chance that you can with the help of all these tools, but it's just slower and different process.
So in order to get ahead with all this latest happenings in the world, I think having English at your disposal is really important.
And also, I agree with you guys that having a different language or knowing English can help to deepen your cultural understanding.
Being able to converse with native speakers, being able to read the books, the literature, listen to the music and all that stuff in its original form, fosters deeper cultural awareness, which in turn fosters open-mindedness, empathy, and intercultural competence.
And a lot of the times I wonder, with all the stuff that goes on international politics, or when decision makers or policy makers are making these important decisions that affect the lives of so many people when you're interacting with different countries, I wonder if they understand the cultural aspect of things.
If you can be in the shoes of the receiver end, then it will make you come up with policies that has a different dimension of understanding better.
And that might be me being a little bit idealistic here, but I firmly believe that.
I think this is a very good relationship.
Did that come out correctly?
Thank you for the support!
I just used my phone AI translator to suddenly be able to speak Chinese with you.
So it is a useful tool. It's a bit of which Steve, may I ask, what is the reaction of the Korean folks when they hear you speak Korean to them?
Oh, I mean, it's totally different now.
When I moved here in the year 2000, it wasn't common for expats to be able to speak Korean at that time, so even just being able to say, Anyeon-Aceo, which is hello, would draw some sort of reaction.
But now it's 20 some years later, expats now, it's not uncommon for them to be able to speak Korean almost fluently.
So now there's really very little reaction, especially when compared to the way that it used to be.
I guess the point here is that, you know, the world is getting more adapted to different, say, people from different cultural or like national backgrounds, kind of kind of emerging in the same, say, dialogue or in the same language where, like, people are more opened up to that to a point that is becoming a new norm, or not really a new norm, like a fact now, which makes learning a different language just more common and day-to-day to a lot of us.
But also, Steve, I suppose for the Korean people who see you here, you speak Korean, there's also immediately this shortening of emotional distance of some sort, because you're like, you're an advocate, and you're someone who's willing to learn their language, and then immediately there's this really, like, friendly feeling, I suppose, and it's the same here in China as well, as well as you can say, Ni Hao, people are so friendly here, they give you a grand round of applause.
So I think that's something that AI tools can't really replace because it's like human to human interaction to the, you know, it's a basic level, but also it's a deep level thing.
And the appreciation of the fact that you're trying.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree with all those points, and you're right, you're absolutely right here in Korea too.
If you can speak Korean to people, to Korean people, then it's just a different level of bond or relationship that you're creating right from the very beginning.
If you can't, it's not like people are rude to you or something like that, they understand that you're not from Korea.
And if you use an AI translator, that's cool too.
But you don't get that bond that you're, that you were just talking about.
You totally miss out on that.
Yeah. One more thing we would like to respond to you, that is Inquiries about the music featured in the show, Huang Li Hua, thank you for writing to us.
You said that you would like to know the name of the English song that's played on the last bit on the May 20th show.
So that's the warling show, the professing your love show, and it is an oldie, but a goodie.
Bun Jo V's always. And in another inquiry we got from a lot of you on Xiao Yu Zhou.
You're asking for this song that's inspired by the ancient poem Yodze Yin or Song of the Parting Sun, and you're asking where you can download it.
Well, guess what? New Hong Lin, I believe did say on that show, this is a song done by AI.
And also it's got the hands of our editors at CGT and Radio all over it.
Okay, so it's called Mother, and you can find it on CGT and Radio's Weibo on May 12th.
So that's where you can find the song if you would like to listen to it again.
And thank you all for your voice memos and emails.
If you like what you hear or you have a question, something you want to discuss with us, shoot us an email or voice memo to eZFM aroundable at Foxmail.com.
Coming up, why are more office workers packing their own lunches?
And is this new packed lunch trend which we will discuss?
Drab or fab? Stay tuned.
Looking for passion? How about fiery debate?
Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
Is the hour of Roundtable.
I'm Ha Young. I'm joined by Yushan in the studio and Steve Havily on the line.
Homemade packed lunches are gaining traction.
But why this dry, stale and simple option?
The Gumbah lunch. A trend of simple, dry and supposedly nutritious meals is sweeping through Chinese social media.
Inspired by a viral video of a British man making a quick sandwich, young professionals are embracing this minimalistic approach with over 600 million views on Do-Yin.
Gumbah lunches are seen as a convenient, healthy and cost-effective way to manage work day meals.
Yushan, please define what is Gumbah lunch.
It does not sound tasty to me at all.
You know, the term Gumbah actually means dry, like extremely dry in Chinese.
And by Gumbah lunch, it actually refers to an open-faced sandwich made with a sliced bread or toast as a base and also like vegetable and sliced meat or sliced food on the top.
So I think Steve might have heard of this type of sandwich before, which is called Tartini, as in French.
Our way of calling it Gumbah lunch, literally, like mentioned by Ho Young earlier, comes from a video that got viral on Chinese social media in the past few months.
It all started from a Chinese lady who filmed her British husband making such a sandwich for lunch.
And in the video, all of the ingredients look so dry and simple and in your face kind of rough, even like he just put like solid, like butter on crispy toasted bread that just looks like he's eating as if his applying soap onto the piece of, I don't know, like, cupboard or something.
He was doing his laundry.
Yeah, that's, I'm quoting from some of the comments down below that video.
Okay, so like he eats like he's applying soap on the cupboard.
That explains the Gumbah or the extremely dryness of the cooking style.
And yeah, just like that, like the way you guys are laughing proves how big of a deal that we're imagining the lunch is like so far.
And yeah, like mentioned by Ho Young, this video or rather the topic or the hashtags of Gumbah lunch or the Gumbah old man or Gumbah.
Oh, come on. The Gumbah lifestyle or what an age of the guy.
Yeah, this, not here to be criticizing or anything, but really like the keywords is accumulating over 600 million clicks on domestic TikTok, which is doughy in.
And right now the Chinese netizens, they're really having like a two-sided discussion about this.
Some are crazy about the simplicity of the cooking and call it like a non-decorative, really back to the essence kind of lifestyle while others, especially some Chinese who are so used to Chinese way of cooking.
They're like, oh my gosh, how can you swallow that?
Take that away from my face.
Yeah, yes. Off-putting.
But Steve, I don't think this is off-putting to you.
What do you think? Is this pretty typical just a quick fix sandwich?
Absolutely. I'm bringing you just described sounds fantastic to me.
Western food can seem very boring and very bland to a lot of people, right?
And it's true because there's not a lot of spices, there's not a lot of ingredients that can go into many different Western dishes.
Not all of them, of course.
But what we're talking about here is the open-faced sandwich or just a sandwich in general.
Yeah, it can seem pretty boring.
It's very simple. There's not a lot happening, but it's very simple to make.
It's very time-efficient in terms of how long it takes you to eat it.
And it's very convenient in terms of how it gets transported around.
Right. Because there's no chance of spillage, right?
You can put that in your bag and you're not going to have any sauce accident in your backpack while you're on your way to the office or to school in the morning.
Right, but can you stand cold butter?
Absolutely. Isn't butter supposed to be room temperature or slightly melted and you spray it on even the hardest slice of bread?
Yeah, you're talking about hard butter here.
And that's one of my pet peeves.
You can't put hard butter on a piece of bread because it just destroys it.
So you at least have to have it warmed up a little bit so that it can go on the bread quite comfortably.
But that's the advantage of toast because toast is a little bit stiffer than your non-toasted bread.
So the chance of rippage in the bread is minimized.
Well, the other day when I went to this pretty trendy little cafe place and hipsters everywhere, maybe I'm one too, sadly.
Yeah, and I got this... I think it was a standard bagel sandwich, but as I bite into the hard and sharp bread, I can feel it scraping against the inside of my mouth.
The rough edges are so abrasive that they cut into my gums and the roof of my mouth causing pain.
Okay, you need to find a new bagel shop because that doesn't sound like a very good one to me.
Causing pain, Steve. And even making me bleed even the next day.
So I think that's a pretty good portrayal of what these gamba lunches contain.
And tail. So why do these fellow Chinese food appreciating crowd turn to this?
I think a lot of young people, especially the white collar workers nowadays, we don't really value the juicy bite as much as we used to.
But rather, we focus on the function of eating, which is exactly the purpose of the gamba lunch, which is such a sandwich, lunching style serves.
You have a bite of a little bit of everything.
There's enough nutritious topping and also enough carb and enough protein and enough...
Just a bite of a little bit of everything that you need in order to supply you in the middle of the day to keep on working and still focusing for the afternoon work.
Because as a keen believer in canteen food, I have to admit that I always get a little bit sleepy after having a big Chinese canteen lunch because our way of cooking is always...
Not always, it tends to incorporate a lot of oil and food sources as high in salt and sugar in a way that to make it cold and cold juicier and with tender and better texture in the mouth.
So in the meantime, it's hot and warm in a way that it makes you feel cozy.
So the typical Chinese way of having lunch kind of comfort you in a way, at least that's how it impresses me, that it comforts me to a point that I'm relaxing and that I can feel free to fall asleep a little bit after the lunch at 1 or 2 pm sharply in the afternoon, which is exactly where the afternoon working hours starts.
So yeah, I guess the point of gumball lunch in the meantime kind of, you know, just helps to reverse that a bit so that you just eat, you feel full, you don't necessarily feel good in the mouth as you just vividly described, but in the meantime, like it helps to boost you up for the rest of the day for work and ultimately is an adaptation of the work culture.
So you're eating to stay alive, not for enjoyment.
If it's such a bad description of Western food, eat for survival, not for pleasure.
We're just saying that sincerely, it's Western food, but you know, Steve, now we have less than a minute and it's your chance to redeem the reputation of Western food period.
Well, the sandwich, the history of the sandwich goes back to 1762 in England when a guy by the name of, I think his name was John Montague.
This was a guy, he was an url and he had a gambling problem.
And apparently the story goes that one day at the gambling table, he was so hungry that he asked one of the workers to bring him something that he could eat with his hands.
So the worker brought him a piece of bread with some meat on it than another piece of bread.
Then words spread throughout England, it eventually found its way to America, somewhere around the revolutionary war.
So this is a deeply ingrained part of our food culture as admittedly boring as a sandwich might be.
But let me end on this note.
A bad sandwich is boring, but a good sandwich with all the right ingredients will bring you lots and lots of pleasure and shouldn't injure your body or your mouth in any way.
I would like to try that.
And that results to the end of today's round table.
Thank you so much Ushan and Steve Hatherly for joining the show.
