Welcome to Social Work Stories, a podcast exploring social work practice through stories and critical reflection.
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But for now, on with the episode.
Hello everyone, welcome to the Social Work Stories podcast.
I am your host, Dr.
Mim Fox, and I'm here with my fabulous co -host Liz Murphy.
Hi, Liz. Hello, Mim, and hello, everyone on this beautiful spring day.
I know. And it feels like it's been a little while, Liz, since we've actually recorded.
And I'm wondering whether our listeners have realised this, that actually we're taking a bit more of an organic approach to our episode releases at the moment.
Look, we are indeed.
It's like we've gone into semi -retirement.
But what I want to say to our beautiful listeners is, we're still here.
We just are more organic.
We're taking a more organic approach, Mim.
We have. But what we've decided, everyone, is that rather than hell or high water releasing an episode each month, we're going to see where the stories take us.
And when there is a beautiful story that we want to share, that's when we're going to release an episode.
We hope that you guys will stay with us throughout that.
But I think after we've been doing it, it's been six years now, Liz, that we've actually been working on this podcast.
And I think, you know, there's a lot of beautiful stories out there still to tell.
And let's see where the next year takes us.
This is a good place to come to at the end of 2024, actually, right?
It is. And so is this little story that we've got today, Mim?
It feels like the timing is just perfect for this time of year.
And that's because this is a story from a new grad social worker.
And I feel like there'd be a whole bunch of our listeners out there who are reaching the pointy end of their degree, they nearly finished their final placements.
Many would be thinking about, well, what now?
Yeah. Where do I get that first job?
Right? How do I approach interviews?
What do I, how do I showcase everything I've learned?
This is that time of year.
It absolutely is, Mim.
And the other thing I'm hoping we can have a conversation about is, what are some of the things that our listeners need to be discerning around, given that they've worked so hard to get to this point?
They're graduating.
What do they need to be looking for as a new grad social worker?
Now, today's story is from a social worker who graduated about two years ago, and she was lucky enough to secure a position in an allied health.
Well, it was a social work new grad position, but it was part of a program based in rural Australia, where they actually provided her with two years of work where they rotated her out into different clinical areas.
She did inpatient work, outpatient, mental health, pediatric, community based, a wonderful example of a new grad program.
She also tells us a story that's very typical of the creativity required of a social worker discharging into a very remote area.
And so that's a that's a lovely story that she'll end with.
It is a brief story, but it actually then frees us up, because I'm curious about what you're telling your students at the moment.
And I'm also thinking about some of my own reflections on what I would do differently if I had my time again.
These new grad programs, these are such fantastic opportunities, aren't they?
And so I think you're right.
I think this beautifully simple story actually illustrates what it's like in that first couple of years and can kick us off to have a good discussion.
So let's hand it away to the social worker.
So I am a new graduate social worker.
I'm in my second year of social work practice and I graduated end of 2022.
So I've been loving the past almost two years.
And so I knew originally when I kind of got into social work, I was really interested always in social work within a health setting, whether that's in inpatient hospital setting or community, I was kind of open to it all.
I think I've always been really drawn to social work within health because I think it's so interesting to challenge the biomedical model of health and what we deem is healthiest society and the norm.
And I think that social work plays such an interesting role within a multidisciplinary team full of allied health professionals.
It was during one of my placements, my first one actually, at a large metro Sydney hospital.
That's when I kind of found my passion for it.
And I guess my true love for hospital social work, I think that I knew from then on, that's really where I want to go.
But I never kind of knew where.
And throughout my placement, I had a really amazing supervisor and even still to this day, I admire all the work that she has done because she's been such a good mentor for me.
But she pulled me aside one day and she said, oh, I think that you'd really like rural social work.
And I remember thinking I could not imagine myself doing that.
I am a Sydney girl through and through.
Which I think, oh my goodness, thank thank God that I didn't kind of listen to that idea and stick by that because I would have missed out on so much.
So when I graduated, I was a little bit stuck, like probably other new grads are where you think, oh, I don't know where I want to go.
And sometimes I think health is a little bit hard to get into.
Initially, I had saw a job opening.
This was a new program.
It's called the Allied Health Rural Graduate Program.
It's a two -year contract based at three different sites within my local health district.
And it was offered for the kind of five big allied health, so dietetics, occupational therapy, physio, social work and speech pathology.
And to me, one of the biggest factors was the fact that I could have the ability to rotate throughout sites.
So I would be seeing inpatient, outpatient, pediatrics, JCPRP, so child protection within health and other different sites.
Also, mental health was something that I was really interested in exploring and rehab, social work, anything that I had an interest in, I was able to explore that.
And for me, that was such a draw factor.
And the ability to practice over such a large geographical area was something that was so interesting to me.
And so I applied and I got the job.
I'm so thankful that I didn't actually kind of listened.
That idea that I had that I could never do rural because I think it's just been such a thrilling and exciting kind of first start to my social work career.
So I'm really thankful for the graduate program.
And to be honest, I would recommend grad programs to any new grad social worker because I think that they just give you so much more support.
Your dedicated supervision time and that ability to grow and you're able to go to education sessions and just find out who you want to be as a social worker.
And I think also in a rural space, there's a lot more flexibility in that.
There's a lot of kind of wide areas where you can go in social work and rural health, but also too, they're really supportive of you.
I think that rural social work particularly knows that to keep people, you have to make people really happy and providing supportive environments is just something that works and they provide that.
And I really appreciate that I've been given supervision and I've been given a great manager who supports me in anything that I'm interested in.
She goes, yep, go ahead, let's do this.
So I really appreciate that.
I guess the case example that I wanted to discuss is a bit of a unique one.
So I had initially met this patient when they had presented to the main site that I work in.
Unfortunately, they were brought in in a pretty bad condition just due to the fact that they lived alone and unfortunately wasn't able to access health in community.
So they came in and they were quite sick for some patients that we have because of isolation and loneliness is such a growing issue in metro settings, but also particularly in rural settings, we didn't really have any contacts for this patient and we weren't able to really get in touch with anyone.
So we had like initially been referred for some discharge planning, but also to just to support this patient and to see, you know, do they need anything like, do you need one of your loved ones to come in?
Do you want them to come in?
So I had initially met this patient and it became apparent that they were they didn't have any other family around nearby and they had a few friends and things like that in town, but they didn't really want anyone contacted and that was all right.
We did manage to have one person of contact put down just in case, but we also had that GP and things listed just in case.
It became pretty apparent to me throughout my discussions that my patient was pretty, I guess, apprehensive initially to talk to social work.
I had to really explain what my role is and that, you know, I'm here to work with you and what you want.
And you know, if you don't want anyone contacted, that's OK.
I guess also through my discussions, my patient had really opened up and I think by just taking that time to sit with them that built that trust and rapport in order for this patient to open up to me.
But I guess this patient, one of the things that they were struggling with the most is that they were older.
So they were over the age of 65, so they qualified for age care.
But one of the things that was kind of behind this is that they lived in a really small town, one of the towns that we don't actually know the population of.
It's quite an eclectic town.
But one of the things with this town is that there's not a lot of services and unfortunately, we don't actually have any disability support or not a lot of age care support within this town.
So it's quite difficult discharge planning wise.
But through my discussions with this patient, it became really apparent that they just and they had capacity to make this decision that was deemed by the team.
But they really just wanted to stay at home.
And that was one of their main goals, is that, you know, they really liked that independence of living at home.
I think they just had highlighted that this is something that I want to do.
How can we work towards that?
So we utilized a lot of different members through their kind of multidisciplinary team.
And during this, my patient had actually been kind of transferred back to one of the smaller sites that feeds into us.
So a lot of my discussions then proceeded to be virtual.
So that was, it's an interesting kind of sphere to work in because thankfully for this one, I was able to see the patient through a camera.
So I was able to have pretty good discussions because they already knew me and just building on this kind of report that we already had and just highlighting how can we work together?
So we were able to get some home modifications done for my client.
So that means that they were a little bit safer at home in terms of what they could do and how they could maneuver at home.
So things like shower rails, kind of stair rails, and like a personal alarm and things like that.
But one of the things, because they were so wanted to live at home independently and was very apprehensive about aged care services, is that we utilized different members in community that they were close to.
So it felt like, to be honest, I refer to this one as a bit of a MacGyvering up of discharge plan because we were able to use contacts that this patient had in order to form kind of a surrounding system and network of strengths for this person.
So we utilized the local kind of grocery shop who, you know, the owners knew small town, everyone knows each other.
So the groceries could be delivered, I think, like twice a week.
And during those times, my patient would often have a shower so that someone was at least home with them while they were having a shower and that they knew that they were OK to do so.
We were also able to work with about three or four different friends that would come by at alternating times in order to provide support for this patient.
And because it's a country town, I think, whilst it's not a formal service, a lot of these friends and like different other people in town were so willing to help, which is something I think is just so unique to rural social work because country towns and people in them pull together so well and are so resourceful
and pull up different things that they have.
So it was really great as a support for this patient because, you know, they had community transport that was done by a friend.
They also had groceries done.
They had home modifications complete.
So my patient was really happy because we were able to work together in order to get what they wanted, but also to to make sure that it was safe.
It was also really cool because we worked alongside the local kind of small hospital there in order for them to come in for treatment and things like that.
So they were able to kind of still have eyes on them and they knew different supports in town.
And I think, yeah, just country towns are really resourceful.
And I think this case example, it was quite early on in my new grad year and for me, it was really such a good one because I worked alongside with this patient and a lot of it was rational choice theory, but also systems theory and highlighting that whilst we might not have services in every area or we
might have kind of small gaps, we can work together with patients in order to find and fill those gaps for what they need.
Also, I think it's really important to listen to what your patients want and respecting that whilst it might not be what you think is best.
If they have the ability to make that decision, then let's work alongside that patient to make sure that they're getting what they need.
So, yeah, that was a really great outcome and my patient is still able to live in community and is thriving.
I love listening to the enthusiasm of this beautiful social worker.
I feel like she could be the pin up girl of rural social work.
And I've had had the privilege of actually talking to her prior to her recording this story and she loves it.
She absolutely loves it.
After her two years of rotating around in all these various clinical areas, she's actually now got a permanent position.
She wants to stay out there.
But it actually, before we get to her story, I just wanted to tell you that I did something very similar.
I worked in Sydney for a little bit.
Just did, you know, the typical you do a few locums until you find a permanent position, you say yes to anything, given that you're a new grad.
But I ended up going outside of Sydney, similar to the social worker.
And what I would say is the opportunities that I had because I was working outside of a major city were so many more opportunities because of that.
Absolutely. But that's always what people say, right.
When you go out to the areas where there aren't the services, there aren't actually the networks for you professionally.
You, therefore, are having to meet the needs of a community in a completely different way.
And that case study of this social worker certainly demonstrated how creative you have to be.
And we'll come back to the case study in a minute.
But the other thing that I found similar to this social worker when I went out of Sydney was the community that is formed with other new grads and with the health community as well.
I remember I'd actually arrived in this small country town.
I wasn't intending on being a social worker.
I was going to be an at home mum just for, you know, a few months.
I heard that to my son at least.
And I got a phone call because someone on the on the grapevine had actually heard that I had moved to the area.
No job interview, just a job offer.
And also a position in the local craiche for my son.
So wow. And and also with that came come over for a Barbie.
Have that, you know, we're going out for drinks on a Friday night.
How'd you go with that home visit?
There was such community and support in those early years of my career.
I will always think fondly of it.
And and I get a sense from this social worker.
That's certainly been the draw card for her too.
Yeah. I mean, every student that I've had over the years who has taken that leap to go and work in a rural area or a remote community has always spoken about the same thing, that sense of community and feeling like often it's exactly like this social worker where they're city people and they always
thought they were city people.
But they decided to take the leap of faith and then discover that they love it.
And I know a number of students who made that move, did their final placement in a remote area, ended up getting a job, falling in love, starting a family and ended up never coming back to the city and discovering a passion for social work.
Oh my gosh, it's like McLeod's daughters.
I know, I know. And so I do think the opportunities, I'm not saying that everyone's going to go down that family route, but the opportunities for really rich work experience are very solidly there in rural areas, for sure.
And part of this program that I became aware of is that support is inbuilt in this.
So in every clinical area that this social worker is placed in, she had constant supervision, she had mentoring from the social worker that had expertise in that area, she met regularly with the other new grad allied health people as well.
And I think this is an example of a really good supportive program.
And I realized too, that there are other allied health professions that are far better at this than social work.
This is quite an unusual one.
I know in physiotherapy, it tends to be the trajectory of many new grad physiotherapists.
But I am curious why as social workers, we don't have more of these programs?
Have you got any idea about that?
Well, they definitely exist.
And usually they're linked to a rural university campus.
Right. Or, yeah. So usually you'll have a partnering between a rural allied health service with a rural university campus.
And that's why nursing, for example, dominates because of the numbers of nurses that are acquired across the country, right?
But yeah, I mean, look, more and more I'm hearing about different new grad programs and not just in health.
I mean, Department of Communities and Justice, Child Protection, new grad programs are really common and have been for a really long time.
And there are other sectors as well.
So I think it's more about knowing, like being able to see them when they come up, making sure that you're connected back to your university before you leave the university that you're speaking with your academics and your lecturers about how to access new grad programs, because often they'll come through
to universities to disseminate that information, but also then going to the websites of the different government departments that you're interested in going into and seeing what the new grad opportunities are.
And Mim, what do you suggest to our listeners that they should be looking for in a good new grad program?
I think what you've just said about support is probably the biggest, most important thing.
However, what often happens is that students come out of social work degrees with really high expectations around support because of course, we all teach to the importance of supervision.
And the reality for lots of our sectors is that that's not always as common as you would want it to be.
This social worker that we heard a story from is obviously a different example.
But often what happens in remote areas is that the supervision or support you receive is remote.
So when COVID hit for a large part of the country, working remotely was new.
But there was a whole other part of the country where they'd been doing it really well for a really long time.
And the remote areas are actually where that flourishes.
And I know that because of the universities that have social work programs in those areas and the way that they have always provided education and support to students way long, long, long before the pandemic.
So that is a shift that I think new grads need to realize when they go into remote areas that sometimes the supervision and support does look different and feels different.
But still wanting to ask about that and wanting to know what the potential for that is, is really important.
So that then once you land, you can actually be seeking out what you're going to need.
Because sometimes that support isn't going to come from someone down the corridor.
Sometimes it's going to come from however many towns over or in, you know, however many hours away.
So that's really important.
I also think what I always say to new grad students is you need to be open to the opportunities.
So often students will come to the end of the degree and they've done their hard four years or two years in a master's and they feel like now's the time to work in, walk into the perfect job that they always wanted and the reason why they did the degree.
And the problem is that actually you need to get to that job still.
Those first few years out of the degree are actually still your training program.
It's just that now you're not training in a university, you're training in the workforce.
So even if you're not in an official new grad role, you are still a new grad, which means you are still learning and you are going to have to build and develop your skills.
So being open to the possible opportunities that are out there, you may never have wanted to work in a certain sector or with a certain client group that sector.
Those client groups will build you the skills that you're going to need when you finally apply for that perfect job.
So make sure you're open to those opportunities.
That's what I always say.
So if you were in a job interview as a as a new grad, would there be questions that you would ask of the interview panel, you know, that final thing that they say at the end?
Are there are there questions that you'd like to ask of us or even prior to the interview min when you're ringing up and finding out about the job it's advertised?
What would be some way that you can ask questions that would give our listeners a sense of is this a supportive environment that I need at this stage of my career?
I would always at that point, firstly, always have a question for the panel.
But secondly, because it shows that you're interested and you're taking initiative and you're proactive.
But secondly, I would always ask a question about support and mentorship.
Absolutely. And supervision.
Absolutely. So you can say as a new graduate, these are the areas that I'm looking to work on and improve on or learn about or develop in my career.
What opportunities are there for me here?
And it puts them on the spot.
If they haven't thought about that, you will see that very quickly in their answer.
So quick pause, Lizniss, and just write down that question now, because that sounds like gold.
I also mean, personally, I like and anyone who knows me any student who's worked with me, and we've done the simulated job interviews, I say to them, if I'm the contact person, and you haven't contacted me before the job interview, you're already on my blacklist.
Ring that person, make contact with that person pitch the interview to that person.
Because a job interview actually starts when you ring them up.
Always, every time.
And they're also the really, it's a golden opportunity to be asking those questions about support, but also about the community.
Yeah. One of the things that this new grad storyteller told me was that it was really challenging to find accommodation at first.
Yeah. So that was a challenge.
I know that there are some new grad programs where they'll actually help you to move to a new area, there's even funds available.
So that'd be something worth considering and asking about.
But be curious about that area.
I mean, especially if you're city slickers like you and I, I mean, to go out to some of these areas, it is like going to a foreign country and it is really good to be curious about it.
The other thing that I learned from this social worker was that the impact on the earth, like droughts, like plagues, like, you know, they've had a like locust and mice plague, she was saying, impacts on people's health, and therefore impacts on the way in which you engage the social worker, which is so interesting.
So to be able to find out a little bit more about this area, for instance, is it's a wheat belt and a sheet belt that she's working in.
She said the distances that she has to travel is like traveling across, you know, the UK.
So to be familiar with things like that is also important, but also appealing to lots of people too.
It's such an unusual setting.
And like you say, you might be getting supervision through, virtually, but they're also, as you saw in this case study, discharge planning's done virtually.
So this particular gentleman was discharged home and she had to organize a whole lot of services virtually.
God love it. Did you love the creativity that she showed in supporting this very isolated gents?
I know, I know. I was going to just say, Liz, I mean, the point you're making about students doing research before going to an interview is just gold.
Like, I know that students often will think, but it's all about me showcasing what I've done.
And, you know, students will often say, well, I, you know, I had that terrible placement or I didn't get to do, you know, all the counseling and casework I wanted to do.
I'm going to have nothing to show.
Going and doing some research about the geographical area that the job is in, the population that exists there, the demographics of that population, all of that, the health service or whatever the context is for the organization that you're going to be working in, all of that shows the panel that you
are the sort of person who is proactive, who is interested and who has the skills of research, who is able to actually investigate an idea or a problem or a situation, right?
You are already demonstrating to the panel what you would bring to the job.
And so I think that's a really important thing that students actually need to embody their skills, not just talk about them.
You need to actually show who you could be once you got the job, because that's part of what the interview process is.
It isn't a tick box.
That's why they're meeting you, because they want to know what sort of person it is who will actually walk through the door.
I think that's a really important point, Liz.
I'm one of the examples of people who it took a long time for me to land, because I did my final placement in Sweden.
So I didn't have all those networks when I first got back to Australia.
So I went back to my cinema job.
And while I looked for a social work job, and I had done a job in England, a short term locum in London, in aged care, before I came back to Australia.
So I had that, but it was very little.
After however many months working back in my job at the cinema, I actually was able to use that very short locum I'd done in England as the experience to then get me another locum in aged care again, aged care and disability.
It was back when the Department of Communities and Justice had aged care and disability, along with child protection, right?
That's I'm aging myself now, Liz.
But because I got this other short term casework, well, now remember, I've said it on other podcast episodes that we have, I never wanted to work in aged care and disability.
But this is where I landed.
And so doing that short term locum, then got me into a community job in disability, something I would never have wanted to do, taught me so much.
And from there, finally got my head around what was the clinical area I wanted to do.
I never wanted to work in health ever.
But I actually found after a couple of years that I wanted to work in death and dying.
And where are people dying?
In hospitals, in health.
So that's what then got me over to health.
It took me that while of doing these smaller jobs and taking different opportunities, and building my generic skill base, right, my transferable skill base to finally figure out what it is I wanted to do.
And so I would say that to everyone is now be kind, be kind to yourself.
When it comes to job seeking, apply everywhere, apply to anything that makes that looks like you could would actually enjoy using skills in that area, because all of that is going to help you eventually, when you're thinking about the job that you really want to set your sights on.
The only thing I would add to your golden words, Mim is if you're still on placement, approach your field educator about doing a simulation of a job interview.
Absolutely. Various settings, they'll be doing it anyway.
But if they're not, get your field educator to do an interview with you, because they'll know what it's like.
Just start practicing it now.
Yeah. Get your little spiel down, your little two sentences that describes who you are as a social worker.
And I always say to students, you know, we talk about practice frameworks.
Just give it practice getting a succinct sentence or two that says, this is my approach as a social worker.
These are the theoretical frameworks that I really use and draw from.
And this is what it means when I use them in my practice, you know.
And so a really good example is, you know, I come from a feminist and critical social work framework.
And therefore, when I'm speaking with clients, I am listening to their lived experience and their stories and prioritizing their lived experience.
And I'm thinking critically about the systems in which they find themselves.
I'm feeling the pause button going down now.
Right. And actually, I'll be sorting out a transcript for this episode as well.
But again, a little bit of gold there for you listeners.
Well, I know it's hard to go from the classroom to practice with some of these ideas, but that's what the crux is of a theoretical framework, practice framework, is who are you?
Why do you practice in the way that you do?
And how does that actually look?
That's all it is. A sentence or two that describes if they hired you, what sort of social worker would they be getting?
Beautiful. So in a nutshell, research as much as you can about the job, contact the person who is the contact person for that job, have a conversation with them, start to think and boil down your personal framework.
And if you're going for any health positions, me and you can guarantee there'll be a case study.
And they'll also want to know about how you deal with conflict.
Yeah, that's so true.
And the first question is always going to be what appealed to you about this job?
And what skills and experience did you do you bring?
I'm breaking out into a hot sweat just thinking about going for a job interview.
You know, you know, Liz, across the board, social workers are one of the disciplines that hate interviews the most.
I know of some people who are unhappy in their positions, but will remain because the idea of going for another job and having to be interviewed keeps us stuck in the position.
I know so many social workers like that, Liz.
This is because of their humble try.
It's hard for people to talk about themselves and to talk about what they do.
Yes, we understand, but get them talking informally.
Yeah. And telling us stories.
The stories are fabulous, as we've discovered over the last six years.
I want to before we sign off, also tell everyone about a book that you and I have both done on.
It's called Podcasting Pedagogy, Podcasting in Social Work Education.
And it's about how to use podcasting for students, how to use it for training social work students, but also working with industry, working with issues of marginalization, working with teaching clinical skills, teaching research skills, a whole range of different things.
It's published now available through Outledge.
We're going to link it in the show notes.
Liz, you and I wrote two chapters together in that book.
We wrote a chapter on this beautiful podcast and how to use it in critical reflection and in supervision, which was a joy to write.
And we also wrote a chapter in there about all of our wonderful students that we have hosted on this podcast and how to co -create podcasts with students, right?
What's the title of the book?
Just in case people are also wanting to write this one down.
Podcasting in Social Work Education.
There you go. A way forward for educators.
So this book was written by myself and Professor Jonathan Singer, who some of you may recognize from the Fantastic Podcast Social Work Podcast.
And also our beautiful producer, Ben Joseph contributed to the book, along with a whole range of other authors as well.
So really, we will link it.
It is fantastic. If I do say so myself, but I think if you're interested at all in how to use podcasts, both in teaching, in practice, in research as well, we touch on as well in this book about podcasting scholarship and where does it fit with academic research.
So I think it's, I feel like we've made a contribution here, Liz.
I particularly, personally, one of my favorite chapters is our critical reflection chapter coming out of this, this beautiful series.
So, you know, I'm sprucing it as you can, as you can, because one, this is your podcast.
So until we meet again, listeners, take care for all of you finishing your course.
Well done, you. Well done.
Congratulations. What a hard slog you've all done.
We know how hard it can be, and we're super, super proud to have you all into the profession.
It's just fabulous.
Take care, everyone.
Bye. Thanks for listening to the Social Work Stories podcast.
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You can connect with us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or you can share our posts with your friends to help spread the word.
And you can always find us at our home on the web, socialworkstories .com.
The Social Work Stories podcast is made by Liz Murphy, Dr.
Mim Fox, Justin Stesch, Dr.
Ben Joseph, and Maddie Stratton.
Thanks so much for listening.
