Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Hey, it's Mel, and I just got some really sad news that Dr. Jim Doty, who is the neuroscientist and neurosurgeon who changed the way that I think about manifesting how I understand it, that he has passed away.
And I was very sad to hear the news, and I wanted to do something to to honor him because he came on this podcast and it was one of the single best conversations we have ever had on the podcast. It is one of the most popular episodes we have released of all time.
It is the most viewed episode that we've ever done on YouTube on the Mel Robbins podcast. And the conversation that I had with Dr. Jim Doty near the end of 2024, it fundamentally changed how I view the world, how I view what's possible.
It's a conversation about manifestation, neuroscience, magic, and how you can unlock the power of your brain, your heart, and your deepest purpose in life.
In honor of Dr. Jim Doty's legacy and of his work and of the impact that he has made in my life and of yours, it is my honor to re -release this conversation in his memory today.
day. I want you to hear some of these comments from listeners around the world.
I've listened to this episode at least four times.
It is so powerful and so useful.
I was so moved by this one that as soon as it was over, I started it again.
The first 15 minutes of this podcast should be a must -listen for all humanity, and it gets even better after that.
This is my third time listening to this one.
I rarely listen to an episode more than once, but this one I've come back to over and over and over again.
And I know you're going to come back to it too.
Because Dr. Jim Doty was a world -renowned neuroscientist, a pioneering Stanford neurosurgeon, the chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation.
And this episode is going to change your life forever.
Now, Dr. Doty ended up getting very sick not long after he left our studios, making it one of the last interviews he ever did.
And one of the things that helped him during the the many months that he spent in the ICU was hearing so much love and support from the listeners of the Mel Robbins podcast who were fundamentally changed forever by this episode with Dr. Doty.
So whether you've heard this conversation or not, in his honor, I invite you to listen again to Dr. Doty's magical and empowering words because this episode will open your mind to the extraordinary possibilities of your life.
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Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're here today.
It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.
And if you're new or you're listening to this because somebody shared it with you, I wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
Today's episode is in honor of one of our most beloved guests of all time on this podcast. His name, Dr. Jim Doty.
Dr. Doty appeared on this podcast in late 2024, and his episode quickly became one of the most popular episodes I have ever released in the history of the Mel Robbins Podcast. podcast. I learned this morning that he passed away, and in his honor, I wanted to share this extraordinary episode with you again.
Dr. Doty was truly an extraordinary human being who lived an extraordinary life.
He was a Stanford neurosurgeon and neuroscientist, a New York Times bestselling author and philanthropist. He was the founder and director of the Stanford Center for Compassion Altruism Research, and he did so much more than just that, but to name a few, He was a military veteran.
He founded massive medical device companies, and he was the chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation.
But the impact that he made in my life and in yours was when he came on this podcast to teach us the science of manifesting and visualization, why it works, what's happening in your brain, and more importantly, how to do it properly.
I am sharing this episode again with you in honor of Dr. Jim Doty and his extraordinary legacy.
I hope this conversation has a life -changing impact on you the same way it had on me.
So please help me welcome Dr. Jim Doty to the Mel Robbins podcast. It is a pleasure and a joy to be with you.
I am so thrilled that you are here, and I cannot wait for this conversation.
And so where I want to start is, can you speak directly to the person that's listening to us and tell them how their life might be different if they take to heart absolutely everything that you are about to teach and share with us today?
Of course. And I think the challenge for so many many of us, is that we believe the negative self -talk we have. And as a result, we create limited beliefs that then limit our possibilities.
And we believe this ongoing narrative.
And the reality is we have more power within ourselves.
And it's understanding that you control this because there is nothing out there.
And I don't mean this in a negative way, but I mean you can't wait for somebody to magically take care of everything the reality is you have the power within yourself to change your circumstance and it's just believing it and listen I will tell you as you know I grew up in a challenging background my father was an alcoholic my mother had had a stroke when I was a child she was partially paralyzed chronically depressed attempted suicide we were evicted we're on public assistance and in those situations you know you think there's no hope but as i found and from my first book into the magic shop
i walked into a magic shop and met a woman who looked at me as a human being.
And what I mean by that is so many people make judgments about people.
And they don't recognize the paths or the problems or the the adversities they faced.
And everybody deserves to be listened to.
So, this woman in this magic shop, she was a radiant being.
She had a smile, a presence that made you feel safe.
And this is a key psychological safety to down -regulate your stress response.
And she made me feel okay.
She She didn't look down on me.
And I was 12, as a 12 -year -old, she looked at me as an equal, eye to eye.
And that interaction with her changed the trajectory of my life because it changed how I saw the world.
You've written about your past. You've written about this interaction with this woman in the magic shop.
And still, it brings so much emotion up in you.
How come? One, I'm appreciative.
Two, I mean, having somebody take the time to look at you, see you, appreciate what you are, and taking that interest, it's very meaningful.
And I try never to take that for granted.
and even and i hope every interaction you understand that a lot of people are suffering they're carrying baggage from their past and that baggage is limiting them and oftentimes just listening to somebody can profoundly change their lives because that's what people want to be heard and sometimes it's just hello sometimes it's just a hug so i always tell people never forget get your own ability to change somebody's life, and also to recognize that oftentimes how somebody is interacting with you has nothing to do with what's going on.
It has to do with the baggage they're carrying.
And so give people a benefit of a doubt.
And so if you grew up in a background like mine, typically there are two paths.
One is the path you become an alcoholic, drug abuser, or have mental health issues the other issue over excel right overachieve then the path of the overachiever gets bifurcated there's one group who say nobody helped me i did this all myself i'm not going to help anybody else then you have the other group which i probably typified maybe excessively where i understand the pain people go through uh and very deeply so uh I'm very attuned to that um I personally cry all the time for the same reason and I don't think I've ever heard anybody explain um why I feel so driven to do what I do.
So thank you for that.
That was a real gift to me to hear somebody explain why tears come up all the time and why I end this podcast every single time by telling the person who's listening that I love them.
Because I know for most people, they actually don't hear it said by anybody else.
No, and which is a very sad statement because, and we can talk about this, but so many people live in a fear mode all the time.
And of course, it has all sorts of deleterious effects.
And being in a love mode or a heart -centered mode is very difficult, especially if you have all sorts of challenges that distract you from who you really are.
are. And I think the gift you give people, and hopefully I try to give people, is a sense of hope and possibilities.
I want to go back to the moment in the magic shop that truly shaped you forever and changed the trajectory of your life.
And so the person who's listening can really perhaps see themselves or someone they love in the story.
Could you explain, as a 12 -year -old, you're walking into this magic shop first, just kind of how you felt emotionally at that point in your life, going through all of the heartache and the hardship that you did that so many people do and how this interaction with an adult woman who you had never met, who just interacted with you how that actually changed.
Well, what would happen in my situation at home was whenever there was fighting or challenging events, I would get on my bike and ride as far and as fast away as I could.
And I rode a great distance far from my house and ended up at a strip mall.
And I'd had an interest in magic for a while.
I used to have a plastic thumb that I would do you tricks with.
My son has one of those.
Yes. Yes. And I lost it.
And so I was looking for a plastic thumb.
But anyway, I saw the magic shop and I went in and what was interesting was this woman was there and who was in her mid fifties probably.
And I still remember her vividly because she was wearing a blue and white muumuu.
Remember these outfits?
Because she was a larger lady and she had this flowing gray hair and she had these glasses that were at the tip of her nose and she had a chain on them and she was reading this paperback book.
You sound like you're describing the potions professor in Harry Potter.
And she may have been actually.
But anyway, she looked up from her glasses and I started querying her about magic.
And she said, I'm just here babysitting the shop because this is my son's store and he's doing an errand.
But this led to her and I having a conversation.
And after about 20 minutes, she said to me, she said, I really like you.
she said i think i can help you i'm here for another six weeks if you show up every day i think you could learn a lot and i had no clue what she meant and this was before mindfulness or neuroplasticity were in the sort of common lexicon and i did show up every day now i have to tell you it wasn't because i had any insight or self -awareness i was a poor 12 year old in in despair with feeling of hopelessness, but I did show up.
And the reason I showed up was one, I had absolutely nothing else to do.
Two, she was giving me chocolate chip cookies.
So those were the two drivers of my interaction with her.
But to sort of understand what happened is she apparently had some exposure to Eastern meditation practices.
And she taught me, if you will, what is now called a mindfulness practice.
And what I never realized was that as a child, I was in a war zone all the time, a constant trauma because you never know what's going to happen.
It's chaos. There's always unexpected things.
You can't rely on anyone or any person.
And as a result, your muscles are always tight.
You're always looking around.
You can't focus. And of course, to learn, you have to be able to attend.
If you can't be present, it's not possible to learn.
So she recognized this and she initially taught me a relaxation technique.
And then she taught me the ability to focus or attend.
And then probably the most critical thing was she taught me that the negative dialogue that was going on in my head was not truth.
And oftentimes when we tell ourselves we're not good enough, we're not worthy, we don't deserve love, we think there's some truth in that.
Yeah. But we have, as humans, a negativity bias where negative statements have a tendency to stick with us.
And this leads oftentimes to rumination.
And once you tell yourself, it is not possible, I cannot, that becomes truth.
Yeah. And so we create our own limited belief system.
And so she taught me a technique to To respond with positive self -affirmation, but also to not respond to those negative feelings and just let them drift by, but also to constantly encourage positivity within yourself.
And this led me to look at the world in a different way.
And the reason I say that is, if you're hypercritical with yourself, you're hypercritical in the lens through which you see the world, and you're very judgmental.
And what I tell people is once I understood what was going on in my own head, it made me look at the world through a different lens, one of kindness, compassion, and it also dissipated the anger that I had towards my parents.
Because what happens is, of course, they're supposed to be the caregivers, but if they don't have the tools to take care of their own pain, they can't help you.
So, that realization was very important as the realization that people carry baggage and their reactions oftentimes have nothing to do with you.
And so, having a much more thoughtful, gentle, kinder way to interact with people, I think, is extraordinarily powerful.
You went on to become a neurosurgeon.
How and when did you start manifesting?
And can you talk about the kind of overlap and connection between being a neurosurgeon and the interest in the functioning and wiring of the mind itself?
self well the other thing i didn't mention was that at the end of this if you will mindfulness type practice we had a discussion and the discussion was about how to manifest or visualization so she taught you how to manifest and visualize at the age of 12 yes wow so she asked me to make a list of 10 things that i wanted now i have to tell you this is through the lens of a 12 year old who's poor.
So in typical fashion, I said I wanted to be a millionaire, which in 1968 was a lot of money, it seemed like.
I wanted to have a mansion.
I wanted to be a doctor.
And it wasn't so much, listen, I was always kind and thoughtful, but I wanted to be a doctor.
So people looked at me and said, you're okay.
I wanted a Porsche.
I wanted a Rolex watch. And all of these external material things that so many people in our society think they need.
They think somehow if you get this stuff, that's going to fill the void all of us have. And of course it doesn't.
and uh but society is oriented unfortunately towards seeking external affirmation with the belief that if you fulfill the societal narrative of success which is money power position that will then translate into happiness and of course this is a story that's been told over and over and over again and it does not and i'm sure you know many many extraordinarily quote -unquote successful people who are actually miserable?
Well, you know, one thing I want to highlight as you're listening to Dr. Doty, and I just am so blown away by your gift of explaining things and how connected you are to why this is important to you.
And it's important to, I think, everybody to understand what you're trying to teach us, is that I think a lot of us know that chasing the external stuff is what society has been prioritizing, but you're going a layer deeper, which is it's not just about the belief that you think those things will make you happy.
It's that your lived experience, when you feel invisible, is that people that have those things are seen.
And that is an explanation that cuts at a way deeper psychological driver than happiness.
And that experience of feeling like you don't matter, you're not seen, you are not treated with a level of dignity and care that every human being deserves.
I haven't heard anybody truly connect the dots between the obsession with chasing status and surface level items and actually not happiness, but the fundamental need that we human human beings have for connection and the sense that somebody actually cares about you and you think that that's going to happen because of the shiny stuff that you acquire.
And you're here to say that actually it doesn't.
It doesn't at all. And I think that's a challenge for so many people because they've been sold this narrative and it's a narrative of unhappiness and it's a narrative of fear.
And I was saying earlier, when you chase slings like that, that's because of your own insecurity.
And as a result, that activates your sympathetic nervous system, which of course is the flight, fight, or freeze response.
And when that happens, actually that has a very negative effect on how your brain functions, but also your peripheral physiology and can lead to a lot of of very significant diseases and decrease your life expectancy versus if you shift that narrative, if you will, to the love mode.
And what I mean by that is all of us have the ability to actually shift from engagement of our sympathetic nervous system, which is part of our autonomic nervous system, which arises in the brainstem and is distributed throughout all the organs in your body, but but especially your heart, to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is really how we evolved to live as a species.
It's not that we were stressed every second, we were stressed periodically, and that stress mode was meant to activate in the face of threat and respond, and either you survived or didn't survive, but then you immediately went back to engagement of your parasympathetic nervous system if you survived.
That is the system we were designed to live in.
That is the system in which you care, which you're rewarded for caring, where you have the release of oxytocin and these other neurotransmitters that activate your pleasure and reward centers when you care for another, especially your offspring, but also within the context of our common humanity.
And that is the mode you want to be in, especially if you want to manifest, because that is when your cognitive brain networks, your peripheral physiology work at their best. and that is from the love mode, if you will.
I wanna see if I can translate back because those were a lot of big words.
I realize that you are a neurosurgeon and you teach these concepts all over the world, but I want you and I to put our arm around the person that's listening and I wanna see if I can't shorthand all this science.
So you keep using the word fear mode and heart mode, which I love, you also just beautifully explained, if I'm hearing you correctly, that there are two modes to our nervous system, parasympathetic, sympathetic, rest, calm, and love, fight or flight.
And that as we listen, is it okay if every time you say fear mode, we just go, okay, he's talking about the sympathetic fight or flight nervous system that a lot of us live in that shuts you off to possibility, connection, potential, and love versus the heart mode, which is your parasympathetic nervous system.
And it is where where the connection and manifestation and fulfillment and the potential of your life exists.
Is that a way to think about this?
No, that's the perfect way to think about it.
And when you're in that mode, everything changes for the positive.
The heart mode. Yes.
And the possibilities of having your intention manifest are greatest when you were in that mode.
Okay, got it. So I want to be in heart mode.
How did this amazing woman in the magic shop teach you to manifest when you were 12?
Well, I have to tell you, and I don't want to mislead people, I thought it was a lot of bullshit initially.
And the reason is, is because, of course, I had never been exposed to anything like that.
I mean, being able to sit and relax your muscles with intention, being able to breathe a certain way to calm your nervous system down were completely new to me.
So it took a little while for me to understand that.
But once I did understand it, I realized how powerful it was because I didn't constantly have this negative self -talk going on and this fear constantly.
And so, as you know, these types of mindfulness practice, which are very commonly discussed today and have changed millions of lives, are readily available to everyone.
And fundamentally, what she taught me was this type of a technique, a relaxation technique, a focus technique, and dealing with the negative self -talk, looking at the world through a lens of compassion.
and we talked about visualization for you to maximally visualize that means you have to be relaxed you have to have calm you have to not look at what i want and this is the difference for a lot of people because they have a vision of what they want but not what they need and as an example we're talking about possessions i want a porsche i want a rolex which was what i did and they think that if I just get that, I'll be okay.
And the problem is that it won't make you okay.
And when you're sitting there self -focusing, if I just have that, I need this, versus as an example saying, I wanna be a doctor.
Now, it's not, I wanna be a doctor so everybody looks at me and says how great I am, which is what I did.
It's, I wanna be a doctor because I wanna help people.
Those are completely two different narratives.
One is I want to be of service.
That is how we were designed as human beings, not I want for me.
And when you change how you look at the world, when you change what you want, you realize, one, a lot of what you think you want is worthless versus what is powerful, what gives a person and purpose and meaning, which, of course, activates every aspect of your physiology, both brain and peripheral physiology, to work at their best, is being of service, being connected, caring for others.
And we know through the work of Robert Waldinger and the 85 -year -old Harvard study, when you care for others, when you look through that lens, everything in your life improves.
And that is the place where you also have the ability to maximize the possibilities for your intention to manifest. You said that human beings are wired for service.
As a neurosurgeon, as a person that, you know, you're here in Boston to go teach about compassion.
You were the chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation.
Yes. So how are we wired for service as human beings?
Well, if you look at our evolution as a species, unlike other species, one, we have a small litter size.
That's a very clinical one.
I think if I were your wife and you said that, I'd smack you, Dr. Doty.
A small litter size.
Well, my wife has smacked me multiple times, believe me.
And our offspring do not run off into the jungle or the forest. they have to be cared for for well over a decade.
And why would you expend the time, the resources, the energy to care for your offspring unless you were rewarded?
The way you're rewarded when you care for your offspring is the release of different neurotransmitters such as oxytocin or the love hormone.
And when those are released, least, your pleasure and reward centers are activated, your physiology works at its best, and you look at the world through the lens of love and caring because you want your offspring to survive.
As we evolved as a species, and you're probably aware of that, there's something called Dunbar's number.
So up to 150 people, which was typically the size of a tribe, again, it was important because you were in a hostile environment that you cared for the other or the the group would not survive.
So, these are very deep -seated genetic imperatives that are with us that allow our species to survive.
We are not meant to live chronically in the sympathetic nervous system.
We are meant as a species to live in our parasympathetic nervous system where we have openness, generosity, caring, love.
The problem is the nature of how capitalist society has been developed actually for many, many people activates their sympathetic nervous system chronically and they get distracted from their purpose.
Our purpose is to love one another.
I love that. And I love that you've simplified it to you're either in fear mode and heart mode and that you are hardwired for heart mode.
Your purpose is to love yourself, to love other people, to be in that mode.
And Dr. Doty, we need to take a quick pause So we can hear a word from our sponsors But don't you dare go anywhere In fact, while you're taking a listen to the sponsors Share this with someone This is one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had And so I want everybody that you love To experience this life -changing wisdom too And don't go anywhere Because Dr. Doty and I will be waiting for you After a very short break Stay with us You know what makes life easier?
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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins, and today you and I are spending time together with Dr. Jim Doty from Stanford and we're digging into the science of manifestation.
So, Dr. Doty, can you explain what manifesting is?
How do you think about it or describe and teach it to people around the world?
So, as you know, with manifestation or that terminology, there's a lot of woo -woo and pseudoscience.
And a lot of people take advantage of that.
And it turns, unfortunately, into a money -making opportunity for some people.
The reality is, though, that actually the ability to manifest is fundamentally based in neuroscience.
There is no woo -woo.
There's no magic. There's no law of attraction.
Based on the history of it back in the first and second century, The Hermetics came up with this idea, and it's been propagated through different prosperity gospels and all sorts of other things, as if if you have positive energy and you put that energy out in the world, you will be able to manifest the Porsche, the Ferrari, the mansion.
And but if it doesn't happen, it's your fault because you didn't care enough or you didn't do it the right way or just buy another book.
And I'll tell you the real way to do it.
but fundamentally it's based on neuroscience and what i mean by that is the way in which you manifest and i'll define manifestation is the ability to take an intention and embed it into your subconscious in a manner such that it has the greatest likelihood to occur or to manifest manifest. And what I mean by that is what people don't appreciate is every second we have about six to 10 million bits of information coming to us from our sensory organs.
That's what makes us who we are.
That creates our reality.
But on a conscious level, we can only deal with 50 to 100 because 99 .9 % go to maintain our bodily function.
That 50 to 100, though, you have control over.
50 to 100 bits of information.
100 bits of information.
How do you deal with that?
Well, you take the tools, and what I mean by that is the tools to embed something into your subconscious.
Okay. The best way to do that, and I'm sure you've heard the term, what fires together, wires together.
But can you explain that for the person listening?
What does that mean?
So, if you create habits, this results in the creation of neural pathways.
And if the mere repetition of those habits actually lays down the circuitry, that then gets embedded and then actually makes things happen.
And I'll explain it as follows.
When you are able to use all of your sensory organs or abilities to embed that intention and do it repeatedly, that is when you're creating these neural pathways.
ways. As an example, if you have an intention, you take a pencil, you write it down, you're actually doing something physical, tactile, then you read it silently, then you read it aloud, then you visualize that, and you do that over and over and over again, what that will do is then embed that into your subconscious.
And then these different cognitive brain networks get activated.
Now, can we unpack that just a minute?
Sure. Because everyone that listens to this loves to make sure that they just got the instructions from you, Dr. Doty, because I'm like hanging on every word. And so there were a couple steps to that because you had the physical pencil, you had the act of writing, you had this moment where if you're watching on YouTube, you saw it.
But if you're listening, let me describe it.
He sat back in his chair.
he put his hands kind of in prayer at his chest, closed his eyes, and he started talking about repeating the thought, is that the chain of events that you do to encode it in your mind?
Yes, absolutely. So will you walk us through it one more time?
Yes. So again, what you want to do is to use all of your sensory organs as much as possible to embed that intention.
So by writing it down, by reading it aloud, by visualizing it, That creates the process where this gets embedded into your subconscious.
And what happens is once you get this embedded, it activates different parts of your brain.
And without getting too technical, one is something called the default mode network.
So the default mode network.
Yes. So this is what happens when your mind wanders or you're daydreaming.
me. And it's self -referential because it's internally focused, but it's where you create the narrative of who you are or what you want.
So if you have negative self -talk, if you ruminate, if you are like, I'm never good enough, nothing works out for me, things like that don't happen to a person like me, I can never get it right.
That is in the default mode network.
Absolutely. And that gets really activated and results in rumination for some people.
Can I ask you another question?
Because one of the things that you said at the very, very beginning is you painted this gorgeous picture of the ability to leverage the remarkable power of your brain to help you get what you truly desire in life, to help you live in heart mode.
and you said it's just about believing it.
And part of the reason why we have trouble believing it is because of the default mode network and all of these stories you've repeated over and over and over again.
Is that fair to say?
No, that's exactly correct.
And can we can reprogram or we can lay down a new track?
Oh, absolutely. And it's available 24 seven and it doesn't matter what's happened to you before.
So many people get fixated, well, I don't deserve this because of, we all deserve it.
So once this gets embedded and you create the narrative of who you want to be or how you see yourself, what you're doing is you're creating salience, okay?
What's that word mean?
It means making it important, okay?
Once something is important, this activates what we call our task positive network.
And the task positive network has three parts.
It has the salience network, it has the attention network, and then it has the executive control network.
And once something is salient, what you're basically saying is this deserves my attention.
and by doing it in a very specific way then that becomes important to you that gets embedded into your subconscious as something to pay attention to once that is defined as something important to you then that activates your attention network so that then you cognitively focus your attention attention on whatever that intention is.
Once those are activated, and I use the analogy in the book, it's as if you have a file cabinet and you put this file into the file cabinet that says important stuff.
And once that is there, then the attention network is activated, which is, as an example, a bloodhound that says, okay, now there's something there.
I need to to track this down and figure out what's going on here then you activate the bloodhound and then that gets released and then once that attention is focused then it starts looking around through all the possibilities in your environment and as soon as it identifies one then your executive control network is activated which in some ways is the thing that chases down what is in your subconscious.
And this is how it works.
There is no magic here.
This is fundamentally basic neuroscience.
And it's something that we all have the ability to master by just doing these techniques whereby you are able to embed your intention.
You do it over and over.
And it's not as if one and done.
And what I mean by that is some people wake up and this is like a New Year's resolution.
I'm going to do this January 1st. And then January 1st comes and you already fail the first day.
You have to not have excessive expectations at first. What I mean by that is these are based on habit.
What happens with habit?
You start small. You don't sit there and say, I'm going to lose a hundred pounds in the next month.
You say, I'm going to try to modify my diet where I'm not drinking sodas.
That's the first little one.
And each of these little wins strengthens you to actually then do the big thing ultimately.
So you don't start by running a marathon on day one, you start by getting up out of bed and walking around the block.
I really appreciate you, especially as a neuroscientist, walking us through all those four parts of the brain and validating that based on the science, this is the mechanism through which you can activate the ability to reprogram your mind.
When we talk about forming new habits through repetition, I think most of us understand that if you want to, let's just take the example of stop drinking soda.
There is a specific physical action that I have to do every day, whether I like it or or not and the consistency of not drinking soda or probably better yet, just focusing on drinking water or a non -soda beverage, that repetition, I get it.
I know what I need to do.
Where I see people trip up is that when it comes to negative self -talk, it is so embedded in the subconscious.
You've been thinking this way for so long.
And because it's there in the back of your mind, unlike learning to drink more water or learning to go for a walk every day.
It's not a physical thing that you kind of see outside yourself.
This is actually programming deep within.
And so could you help me and the person listening understand, let's say that you have for your entire life had this narrative in your mind where like, I'm not good enough.
How do I use these four parts of the brain and the technique you just described step by step to program a completely different way of talking to myself in my default mode network and pick whatever, because you are the expert teaching people around the world, this technique.
Nick. So pick whatever you believe is the most common default negative self -talk or belief.
And then if you could walk us step by step, what am I doing, Dr. Doty, every day?
Well, I think the first thing people need to recognize is the burden we carry as a human being is negative self -talk.
It is not going to go 100 % away.
That's just the way it is.
In fact, I speak about these things and I say to people, how many of you have negative self -talk?
And usually 90 % of people raise their hand.
I say the other 10 % are lying.
And I don't care in theory.
I mean, obviously, you have examined these areas.
I have examined these areas.
I still have negative self -talk.
The key is, though, in the face of the negative self -talk, you're okay.
and understand what it is and not let it overpower you where you sit there and go, oh God, I'm horrible.
And you just ruminate over this, recognize for what it is and let it sit there.
You don't have to do anything with it.
And this is the fundamental practice of mindfulness meditation.
But the aspect which I think is different and actually what we teach at Stanford is to have compassion for self.
And this is when you give yourself these positive affirmations and you say you're worthy, you're good enough, you deserve.
And a lot of the negative self -talk comes from where?
It comes from the baggage that we carry from our childhoods.
And this is what a lot of people don't appreciate.
You're manifesting all the time.
What people don't realize, though, is that many of the decisions they make in their lives, the relationships, the jobs they have, the decisions they make are actually based on the baggage that they carry and that is the narrative of their story.
And so one of the first things I think you have to do is to sit back and whether it's with a therapist or just self -reflection where you're writing things down and trying to understand how you become you to have some awareness of what created this.
And once you have that insight, then that allows you to not be as affected or to believe it, but understand that it's the nature of how humans are wired, and it's okay, that's not going to change.
And in some ways, it's like also accepting your shadow self, right?
All of us have a part of us that we're ashamed of, we're embarrassed about, we've done actions that are horrible sometimes, and you can't push your shadow away, you have to accept it and integrate it into who you are.
And the same is true of this.
So once you're able to do that, that lessens the power of that inner critic.
So let me see if I can just, again, translate this because you've got a really big brain.
You operate on brains and you are friends with the biggest spiritual leaders of our time.
And you teach compassion, manifestation, visualization, all of this.
And I just want to make sure that I do my job and that as you're listening, that you truly are able to take all of this extraordinary wisdom and the gift of Dr. Doty and apply it.
And so I heard you say that if you were to take out a piece of paper and you were to just start journaling around what did my childhood make me believe about myself, that that first step of seeing that in writing helps you separate from it and see it for what it is.
which is it is a story, just like a story in a book, that is something you've been telling yourself over and over, and just separating yourself from it is the first step.
The thing I'm curious about, though, is how I start to learn a new story.
Because, for example, if we were to bring in a flute, right?
Would you be able to play a flute if I handed it to you?
Of course not. Yeah, me either.
But if I practiced it for a year, I could probably learn it.
And so I'm assuming that there's a technique, even once I separate and go, oh, my childhood taught me to think X about myself.
What is the technique for how you use the science of manifestation and visualization to start to write a new story about yourself?
No, I think that's an excellent question.
And in fact, the first step is understanding what you've already been manifesting.
Which is the negative.
Yes. And you've been manifesting it because you've repeated it in your subconscious and you've interacted with those thoughts all day long since your childhood.
And that is a form of manifestation.
It proves that it works because you've just repeated it over and over.
Well, I'm sure you've met people who go, gosh, I'm going through my third divorce and it's like I married the same person every time.
And you're like, yes, you did.
Yeah. Because you manifested it because you think the same way over and over and over again.
So we do have the power to change that narrative.
And then the next thing is, which we discussed a little bit, is understanding the difference between what you want or think you want and what you need.
But Dr. Doty, I don't want to think about what I need.
I want to think about what I want.
You know what I mean?
Like, I want, I want the, but I want that thing, but I want this, but I want that, but I want the other thing.
Well, you know, it's funny you say that because people say, geez, Jim, you know, you sort of lambast this idea about materialism.
Listen, I don't at all.
I like material things.
I drive a Porsche. I live in a very nice house.
See, you manifested all of this.
That is true. But the difference, though, is, one, they're wonderful to have. They're not necessary.
What I mean by that is, if all of these things were taken away from me, it has no impact on who I see myself as.
I am not using them for external validation.
I'm using them because I enjoy them.
And those are different things.
People who chase after stuff, the I part, who need external affirmation, that is their identity.
And that causes suffering because they never get what they want.
Versus if you look through the love or the heart mode and you're focused on an image of you helping other people, you get all of these other things.
They're available to you if you want them.
them. But the greatest way to manifest is to have yourself centered, to be in a calm mode, to look through the lens of how can I be helpful.
And then that gives you all the other stuff if you so desire.
But focusing solely on that doesn't get that.
You're not living a life of purpose and meaning.
You're chasing pleasure and avoiding pain.
And while that can sort of cause some people say, I'm happy.
If you actually look at the most of these people may be happy on one level, but that happiness is transitory and shallow versus if you chase purpose and meaning that is deep and long lasting.
Wow. You know, Dr. Doty, this feels like a good time to hit the pause button.
And we're going to continue after we hear a short word from our sponsors.
And if you're getting something out of this and how could you not, I want you to share this with everyone.
one. Dr. Doty is a life -changing gift to all of us.
Everybody deserves to learn this, to know this, and to be able to use it.
So thank you in advance for sharing this with the people that you care about.
And don't go anywhere because we're going to be waiting for you after a very short break and we've got a lot more to cover on the science of manifestation.
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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning all about the science of manifestation from Stanford neurosurgeon Dr. James Doty.
You just said something that I want to make sure I take out my magic highlighter and I call attention to.
That if you were to remove all of the material stuff, do you actually still feel good about who you are?
Absolutely. And having those things to enjoy them is one thing, but needing those things to define your worth is a completely separate issue that based on research, you're saying leads to unhappiness.
and since we're talking about material items though can you explain how the science of visualization or man or visualization and manifestation the same things yes okay so how does the science of manifestation help you achieve goals or help you get material things if that's something that you would like to have in your life well let me give you an example i I mean, when I was 12, I had a list of all material things.
And I got every one of them.
What was on the list?
I become a neurosurgeon, a professor at Stanford. I have all this material success.
I'm a successful entrepreneur.
I have millions and millions of dollars.
I have a home overlooking the bay in Newport Beach. I have a villa in Florence.
I have an island. We're all starting to hate you right now, but go ahead.
And I was single at the time.
And I was dating all these attractive women.
And all my friends said, God, your life is so great, man, look at you.
Yet I was never more miserable in my entire life because I kept expecting, okay, I'm going to climb this mountain and then I'm going to feel good about myself.
Then I'm going to climb the next mountain.
I'm going to feel good about myself.
And I never felt good about myself.
None of that stuff made me feel good about myself.
And in fact, I lost $80 million during the dot -com crash.
And as a result, of course that gets your attention because I was $3 million in debt and I had a $15 million loan.
And as a result, I went through a period of steep self -reflection because I wanted to understand what mistake had I made in this process because I'd done everything I thought.
And it was because I was focused on, look at me, I did this, make me feel good about myself.
And that's what I was chasing and it didn't help me.
and so here I am having to deal with this massive loss.
I'm selling all of this.
You know, I had a Ferrari, a Porsche, a Range Rover, a BMW, a Mercedes.
I had a several million dollar house overlooking the bay.
I had to sell all of this stuff and it was interesting during that situation, I had to deal with my banker, of course, who wanted this money and I had to deal with my lawyers because I had set up a variety of different trusts but I had set up a charitable trust and had put stock into it.
Honestly, it was probably a tax avoidance thing.
It wasn't because Jim Doty was super nice.
So I was dealing with my lawyer, and he said, look, Jim, I have some good news for you.
We actually never completed the paperwork for that trust, so you don't have to give any of that stock away.
You can just keep it.
And I went through this period of deep reflection about this.
And at the end of the day, I told him to go ahead and give the stock away.
Was it Google? No, but it was $30 million.
But what that $30 million did was it changed everything.
I set up health clinics around the world.
I set up programs for adolescents who are affected by AIDS, HIV.
I set up programs for the disabled.
I funded research. I set up endowed chairs.
And in some ways, though, it was an interesting trajectory because I went truly from rags to riches, literally, to rags again, in terms of the spiritual.
What I was doing was not soothing my soul.
And so, when I gave everything away, being in the face of $3 million in the hole, that is when everything changed.
This is where I started the center at Stanford that studies his compassion.
I met his holiness, the Dalai Lama.
I developed these relationships with all of these spiritual and religious leaders, which has been incredibly, incredibly impactful in my life.
And so it's a different rags to riches.
There are so many aspects of that story I want to unpack because I have been in many moments of my life where I had nothing and was on the verge of losing everything that I cared about.
But if I had heard somebody talking about Porsches and this and that and the other thing, and then you lose it all, and then you have a spiritual waking, I would still, as I'm listening, go, that's nice for you.
But I am having trouble putting groceries on the table and I still would love a Porsche.
And I know, because I know some some of your background, how important it is for you to awaken something inside of people about the deeper meaning of life and the way to use manifestation and visualization and the science of all this in a way to truly unlock your potential.
And how would you have somebody who's listening who is really struggling and never has achieved that moment of riches that is surface level, truly grasp the power of what is available to them to use these tools of separating from your past story and identifying what you want to believe about yourself and then writing it and believing it and repeating it and trying to open up your heart and live in this heart mode.
What is available to you if we lean in and trust you, even when you're really struggling and it seems like money is the solution?
No, no, you're absolutely right.
And I don't want to give anybody the impression that, look, my worst day, I was a neurosurgeon making more than 99 .9 % of people.
So even though I lost all this money and was in the hole, I certainly had the ability to recover.
And most people don't have that.
So I certainly want to acknowledge that.
And I'm not saying that my story is everyone's story.
Listen, I started from very, very humble beginnings.
But the fundamental aspect of the story is it doesn't matter where you're at.
It matters what you believe.
And when you have this negative self -talk and you create these limited belief systems, that is the prison you're creating for yourself.
And the first step, though, is to understand that, yes, circumstances can be very horrible.
Yes, circumstances can result in you not even being able to feed your family.
And I truly acknowledge that because I know what it's like to be hungry, right?
but regardless you have possibilities when you're able to interrupt that negative belief system when you're able to look through the lens of possibilities because when you are negative when you say it's not possible, the world is against me, everybody hates me, fundamentally you're changing your physiology.
And as you probably know, we have oscillation or vibrations that come from our bodies.
And one of the greatest ones is from your heart.
If you have this negative self -talk, if you create this negativity, that goes out.
The bioelectrical energy that comes from your heart extends three to five feet outside your body.
And I'm sure you've experienced, you were mentioning something earlier, gosh, when you walked in, you made me feel good.
That is a gift all of us have to give people.
And I'm sure you've met people who, as soon as you meet them, go, I do not like that person.
All of us have the ability to become the former, not the latter.
It's how you look at the world.
And when you change how you look at the world from that one of negativity because your situation is difficult to look at.
There are amazing possibilities here because what I tell people, when I changed how I looked at the world, the world changed how it looked at me because people reached out to me because I was open to it.
I was appreciative.
I was thankful. I didn't sit there and say, the world hates me.
Nobody's going to do anything.
That energy changes when you change how you look at the world.
And the energy you're talking about is the ability to move yourself from a fear mode into a heart mode.
And there's also a lot of research and science that you write about and how being in that heart mode, where you're coming from a place of service, where you are actively manifesting and visualizing positive beliefs about yourself.
I am good. I am worthy I am loved what are the things that you say that help you drop into heart mode this may sound strange but fundamentally the world we create is one we create it is a delusion that we have created for ourselves and that delusion can either be one of the world hates me everybody hates me the world is against me versus saying wow look at the sunshine I am here look at all all these amazing people around me.
Look at the possibilities.
And I'm not saying this out of some trope that is not true.
It is true when you change how you look at yourself.
Now, if you want to manifest, there are several techniques.
Can you walk us through a couple?
Sure. One of the first things you have to do, though, is find a place, a calm place, where you can shift from being in the fear mode to the heart mode, where you're not distracted, where it's not noisy, where you're not taking caffeinated beverages or using mind -altering substances, where you can simply be present.
And then you can begin a breathing exercise.
The very nature of that breathing exercise, and this is a mindfulness practice, gets you into the heart mode.
And then you start seeing the world through a different lens.
And then you start, as an example, talking about, what have I already manifested?
And you sit there with that.
And you love yourself in the sense that you're saying, yes, that happened.
But number one, and this is oftentimes the case with children, they look at, say, it's my fault.
It's not your fault.
You're okay. And you're also okay no matter what's happened in the past. All of us deserve a second chance and sometimes a third chance.
there most people are loving kind people inside and they have been battered by the forces oftentimes that make them think that's not the case or that they don't deserve love everybody deserves love everybody deserves dignity and so when you can sit in that quiet space and reflect on this and then think about what it is you truly want what would make you happy most people if they they actually sit there and do it, they realize the false narrative of getting the Porsche or the Ferrari.
If they sit there and think about it, what do they really want?
They want security for their family.
They want food on the table.
They want shelter. And if you look through that lens, that is what am I doing to be of service to help my family and my environment, which will ultimately help me.
And so, going through those exercises, understanding the power that you have And also, there's another aspect which is related to attachment.
One of the biggest things that causes suffering is attachment and craving.
And it's wonderful to have goals.
It's wonderful to utilize these techniques to manifest, but there's certain caveats to that.
one is sometimes things don't manifest and it's not necessarily because you did anything wrong or the gods are looking down at you badly sometimes your subconscious may even know that it's not good for you and it doesn't allow that to happen the other is that things don't happen always exactly as we visualize they may approximate it but oftentimes they're not exactly and i have have things I've been trying to manifest for 10 or 15 years, and I firmly believe they will manifest. But you have to be patient.
You have to do the work.
You have to do the exercises.
And all of that is okay because I'm not attached to the outcome.
And that is a critical thing.
Yes, do I want it to happen?
Absolutely. Should it happen?
Absolutely. Will it happen?
Maybe, maybe, maybe not.
And it's more likely that it will?
Yes. Because you are training your mind using these techniques and putting yourself in a heart mode to make it happen.
You wrote in your book, your brain can't tell the difference between what is real and vividly imagined.
By focusing on the feeling of success, you train your brain to expect it.
Absolutely. And when you activate your subconscious, and I'm sure you've probably experienced this, if you're at a party and it's very noisy, somebody says your name, you immediately turn.
Even in the din of all this noise, you are attuned to your name because it's deeply embedded in you.
The same is true, and this is the nature of synchronicities and coincidences, because your subconscious is always searching for what is salient.
But it shows you that you're constantly listening for the possibilities.
And this happens to me over and over again, where I will have something.
And, you know, there's this attitude of dispositional optimism.
And this is, I think, really critical.
Regardless of everything, I always remain optimistic of possibilities.
And, you know, there was a study done on prisoners in Vietnam, prisoners of war.
And there's a particular case for an individual.
I mean, he was in prison for like seven or eight years.
He said, what kept me alive was I didn't put a time frame on me getting out.
I just had this deep feeling that I would get out, and I was thankful for that.
You see, so no matter how dismal the circumstance, they still believe in the possibility.
And I think that's critically important.
And this idea of dispositional optimism has been studied.
And again, it's like being in heart mode.
your physiology works at its best when you are focused on others when you're trying to be of service when you have this constant feeling of the amazing possibilities that exist it stops you or limits you from going down the spiral into your default mode ruminating about what can't be versus looking at the world through the lens of what could be i want to expand on the power of of learning how to be in the heart mode and what you just brought to the table, this dispositional optimism and the belief that things can get better, the hope and the optimism that things will turn out and feeling grateful
for that. Because when you're in the heart mode, you've talked a lot about how we are naturally wired to be in that mode, calm, connected, open to service, open -hearted.
Can you explain how positive emotions, the emotions that you feel when you're in the heart mode, like gratitude, compassion, love, how do those emotions communicate to your brain and accelerate or make it stronger that what you're thinking about when you're in heart mode actually wires in a very strong way based on the emotions of heart mode?
You just said it. Oh, I did?
How do positive emotions like gratitude and compassion and love create the ability to manifest or rewire your mind?
As we said or discussed earlier, these types of positive belief systems make your physiology work its best, both your brain and your peripheral physiology.
When all your cognitive brain networks function at their best, that is the greatest likelihood for you to manifest your intention.
And there's a lot of work that has been done on gratitude, showing that simply sitting down and writing three things you're grateful for changes everything.
It changes how you view the world, how you look not from the lens of what I don't have, but how grateful you are.
As an example, half of the world's population lives on less than $2 .50 a day.
I am extraordinarily blessed.
So I, no matter how bad it is, and again, and I'm not saying that I'm horribly suffering, but that being said, I still have ups and downs and have had situations which are incredibly demoralizing.
But at the end of the day, I sit back and I have gratitude, even in the face of these horrible things that were not as I planned or nor wanted happen.
happen. And you just have to understand that regardless of all of them, you're very fortunate.
As a renowned neuroscientist and neurosurgeon, what does your daily manifestation routine look like?
Can you walk us through it?
Sure. Now you have to understand I've been meditating for well over 50 years.
So in some ways that becomes the habit, right?
It is your mindset.
It is how you look at the world.
It is how you walk in the world.
And hopefully it's through the love mode, although not always.
And I will assure you, my wife will get mad at me and she'll say, they call you Mr. Compassion, but you're an asshole.
It's good to know you're human.
Yes, I am very human.
So let me start with the morning first. Every morning I wake up and I sit at the side of the bed and I do a breathing exercise.
And the very nature of that breathing exercise shifts me into the parasympathetic nervous system.
And what is the breathing exercise?
It's just slowly breathing in through the nose, holding it for four seconds, slowly letting it out.
And I do this for a minute or two.
You can sit, you can lay down.
There's nothing that is prescriptive.
And this is where people get lost about mindfulness practices.
They somehow think you have to sit like a Buddha and do this, and they get all anxious about it.
There's no reason to be anxious at all.
It's just to find a place where you feel comfortable.
And then I go through this breathing exercise of slowly breathing in for four to six seconds, holding it for four to six seconds, slowly letting it out through the mouth.
And then that shifts me into the parasympathetic nervous system or strengthens where I'm already at.
And then I think of the joy and awe of being in this world.
And I just sit with that for a minute or two.
And then literally, I just go through that alphabet, and that centers me for the day.
And if I'm centered looking through that lens, then that actually creates the environment for me to manifest because I am in the right mindset.
I'm calm. I'm thoughtful.
I'm thinking about others.
I'm not self -focused.
And the very nature of that allows me to manifest. Now, I was going to mention in the evening, all of us have goals.
All of us have intentions.
And you can prioritize them from ones that are mildly important, moderately important, incredibly important, and the time frames.
And then you focus on them.
And what I will do is I will, again, write them down, whatever the top three are, and then I'll go through the exact same exercise I mentioned, which is to write them down, to repeat it silently, to repeat it aloud, to see it happening, and over and over and over again.
All of those things strengthen the power and put you in the right mindset to have the greatest likelihood of you manifesting your intention.
Thank you for describing that.
How does the habit that you just said activate your brain's ability to help you act on those goals?
Well, I think you used a key term, which is authentic.
Authentic. What makes somebody authentic?
When they let their mask down, when they're able to show their own emotions and how they feel about things, and the very nature of that puts you in the right mental state, where you don't feel you have to hide yourself, where you don't feel that you have to put on a show for everybody about how successful you are, and where you're just feeling comfortable with who you are and accept yourself.
And the hardest, hardest part for so many people is accepting themselves as they are, not be lost in how they want to be or lost in what could have been.
And this is also a thing that distracts you from the energy you have to change things.
Because if you spend 80 % of your time on the past and a future that hasn't happened, lamenting, then you can never be present to actually make things happen.
And this is the key.
You have to be present.
You have to be authentic.
You have to understand your past. And you have to understand that when you want something to manifest, yes, it is a future intention, but it's not something to get lost in.
It's something simply to sit with instead of be pathologically focused on.
As an example, I'm sure you've seen people who have sacrificed everything to get to the top of the mountain.
Well, they've sacrificed everything to get to the top of the mountain to stand there by themselves.
What was the purpose of that?
Our purpose in life is connection.
It's not to so be focused that you don't have any connections and you're walking alone.
It's to connect with people.
I mean, many, many of the aspects of what we're talking about are the journey with others, not necessarily standing by yourself.
You've given me a huge epiphany because I've always thought about the science of manifesting as something that is tied to what's going to happen.
And in listening to you, I had this huge epiphany where I thought, oh, wait a minute.
It's all about this daily practice of sitting in the present and dropping into the heart mode.
And the starting line is acceptance of self, compassion and gratitude and love towards self and getting yourself at this almost like daily reset present moment.
And from there, I can decide what I want to believe.
I can decide when I align with the wiring of my body and my soul, I can decide what what I want to believe.
I can decide what's important to me and practicing these tools, both of dropping into heart mode, of being present with self, of tapping into this wiring for service and compassion and love.
When you start there and now you're repeating the things that you want and why you want these things from your heart, anything is possible.
Well, and basically you've just unlocked the key to the prison that most people have created for themselves.
What do you mean by that?
Well, what you just said fundamentally addresses the issue of how people create a prison for themselves by this negative self -talk.
Every time they make a negative statement, it's as if they're laying down a brick to build a prison and the walls get higher and it gets darker.
worker, yet all of us have the key in our pocket, which you just described, to let yourself out of the prison that you created.
And I think this recognition is what's really, really critically important.
And it's not woo -woo, it's not looking to the universe to save you, it's understanding your own self -agency and not believing that there's something out there.
Now, that being said, And as you know, the first sentence of the book says, the universe doesn't give a fuck about you.
But at the end of the book, my statement is, you are the universe.
And that is your gift. What are your parting words, Dr. Doty?
Well, oftentimes, as we've talked about, people look through the lens of negativity.
And the reality is, and you discussed it also, everyone wants to be seen.
Everyone wants to be loved.
And what I would say to everyone listening is regardless of your circumstance, regardless of your situation, each of us has the ability to improve the life of at least one person every day.
And whether it's a hug, whether it's saying hello, whether it's sharing a meal, whatever it is, when you can actually look through the world through that lens, how can I help at least one person every day, that is a habit that puts you in the mindset to not only be of service and to help others, but it also helps you.
And it helps you because it then gives you the power actually to see the world through the different lens and then be able to manifest whatever your intention is.
And that is the power of our humanity.
And it all relates fundamentally to connecting with another with an open heart.
Well, Dr. Doty, thank you.
I don't even know what to say.
I just feel kind of blown wide open by the experience of getting to be together with you.
That's kind of you thank you, I appreciate it well I appreciate everything that you shared and all the work that you're doing and thank you for being here thank you and I want to thank you for being here with me and Dr. Doty and listening all the way to the end, I'm sure that your heart is wide open and I I wanted to be certain that I told you, in case nobody else does, that I love you.
I believe in you. I believe in your ability to create a better life.
And I am so excited about everything that you just learned.
And I cannot wait to hear how you put this to use in your own life.
All right, I'll see you in the next episode.
That's a pool outside the house, and that's a Buddha centered on the pool, so you see it as you walk in.
No way. And it's a headless Buddha.
Why headless? Because it reminds you to not get lost in your head.
Oh, here's the backyard. Oh, it looks great.
Oh, how fabulous. And then that's where I'm going to stay when my husband and I come to see you.
Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic.
Mr. I don't really know what I'm doing.
Well, having complete lack of knowledge is actually a benefit oftentimes, because you're not restrained by other people's opinions.
You know what? I'm going to actually use that quote.
You're pretty cool.
I think we're supposed to be friends.
I think we already are.
Oh, my God. Okay, well, hold on a second.
Here we go. Hold on a second.
Let's save this for—let's get started.
Oh, and one more thing.
And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language.
You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.
I'm just your friend.
I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.
