An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney | The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Coming up on this podcast, Rob Mahoney, who is someone I've been on all season, but we made up for it by going for almost 100 minutes.

I threw a power pole at him from 30 to one and we went through it and we talked about every team.

Just all kinds of questions, fake trades, philosophical discussions.

Rob was more excited about the Celtics than I am.

We covered it all and it's all next.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to talk about Pearl Jam.

Oh, no, we're not going to talk about them.

They're going to sing for us.

And then we're going to bring in Rob Mahoney.

And I did all this for the NBA Cup.

We can talk about the NBA Cup on Thursday.

So Rob Mahoney next.

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The way things are moving All right, we were recording this Tuesday morning Pacific time.

This guy has not been on my podcast all season, and that's my fault.

But you are a busy guy, Rob Mahoney.

It's true.

Joanna has co-opted you for the Prestige TV show.

You're just doing a lot of stuff.

You're in the big picks sometimes.

I'm still taking it personally, though.

I now just have a lifetime grudge against Tim Legler all because of you, Bill.

Thanks a lot.

Fuck you, Tim Legler.

We're doing this before the NBA Cup.

So I think I might do something at the cup on the top.

Do you care about the NBA cup is my question.

I've chosen to care about the cup.

Has it given me a reason to believe that the basketball will be like above and beyond?

Absolutely not.

But I like to find a little something to care about in the regular season, even if it's somewhat arbitrary.

I've landed in the camp of I like watching basketball where the players care.

I don't really care about the reason why they care.

But as long as they care, I'm in.

And it feels like they care.

Now they could care because of the money, because the courts look weird, because there's less games on and they know the other players are watching.

I don't know all the reasons, but the intensity is there.

So that's why I'm going to watch.

But ultimately, it took me 10 minutes to remember who won last year.

And I genuinely don't remember who won two years ago.

Who won two years ago?

Was it the Lakers?

It was the Lakers, I believe.

That's probably why I blocked it out of my mind.

All right.

So I invited you on.

This is going to be a long meandering pod where we go through a power poll that I sent you that you might disagree with some of the choices.

And we're going to go from 30 to one.

And I wanted to hit each team and occasionally have a question as I go through the teams that I want to raise.

And I did not send you the questions because you're a pro.

You don't need the questions.

You're ready to roll.

You can go blind.

I appreciate that.

Um, but the dregs is our first group in the power pole.

Yeah.

And I think Washington is the worst team in the league.

I don't know if that's going to stay, but right now they're the worst team in the league.

And yet I don't, I don't begrudge any decision they've made.

I know they're going to be able to trade McCollum or Middleton or just buy them out.

Their roster doesn't make sense.

I don't really care.

I like some of their players.

I like some of their assets.

They have some flexibility and I don't really have a lot of notes on Washington, but do you have any notes?

I think you're right on that they're just in a different class of losing.

And I'm with you.

I like a lot of the prospects.

Big picture.

It's going to need to suss itself out in terms of who is actually important here long term.

But Alex Starr's development has been a great story.

They've had a ton of injuries.

There's a lot of reasons why they are here versus 28th on this list.

The number one reason might be the defensive attention span of the Washington Wizards is one of the most disastrous things in the NBA.

If you are sitting courtside at a Wizards game and walk too quickly to your seat, every wizard will turn and look at you.

So this is just what a young team is at this point, and that's okay.

Their defensive rating is almost 124, which is impossibly high.

If you had a 124 offensive rating, you would be among the best teams of all time.

Uh, they're also, they're minus 15.6.

They're doing everything right.

And it's a draft that we feel like there's three franchise guys.

There might even be a fourth one that emerges and they've, they've played it perfectly.

The Avdia trade.

You know in retrospect very tough, not awesome, but also maybe not put it in this position.

All right.

I don't have any questions about Washington.

I do have questions about new Orleans.

Who's number 29 on my list.

There's three and 22, which is amazing because I like nine of their players and Eight of their players.

But do you like them in the roles they are playing right now?

I'm just saying as assets, kind of like them.

So I tweeted this last night.

I really hated their queen trade.

I thought it was actually irresponsible and fireable to not put protections on the pick.

And even if they had put a top three on the pick, I still think Atlanta does the trade.

It's a huge asset.

It's probably the biggest asset in the honest sweepstakes if we have sweepstakes.

And yet, I also really like Derrick Queen.

I liked him in the draft.

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching him in these games.

He's got just this extra competitive side.

He's really competitive.

He's a really interesting offensive player.

He's kind of moved into this one-of-one zone of where you see people like Shen Goon or you know there's just certain players where you're like I'm not seeing that anywhere else.

And I kind of feel, I don't know what he is.

He might be a sieve defensively.

You might never be able to win with him.

But offensively, he's fascinating.

And I think he's advanced.

And it's interesting because he's played against all these dudes, because he's always been one of the best players.

And I think that's why Dumars liked him so much.

So trading that asset for him, On paper, it was the right move.

It was just the asset they gave up was so terrible that it's kind of overshadowed the move.

But I still like the player.

Does that make sense?

Wouldn't that be the greatest accomplishment for him in his career to just overcome this disaster trade that I think would hang around the neck of almost any other player who are involved in that circumstance?

But he is so good.

And so demonstrably and obviously talented and skilled in the exact thing that Biggs can transform their team with which is running offense.

If you can be a Shang-Goon-like hub, like put Nikola Jokic in his own category.

But I like the Shang-Goon comparison because they have the same wiggle through the defense kind of drive.

Derrick Queen improbably has one of my favorite spin moves in the NBA.

There's just a lot to his game that really really works in ways that obviously with the Pelicans broadly do not work.

He's a half-court possible elite, elite, elite half-court guy.

And they already has a couple really fun.

Like he did one yesterday to take the lead against the Spurs with like on Cornette, where he goes to the basket but somehow slides into the defender.

And all of a sudden he's getting a layup and you're like, I don't even know.

He never was by the guy.

How did he get a layup?

Um, everything seems to go in.

He's also a really good passer, but you can definitely run a top 10 offense through him at some point.

So yeah, you know, should they have put the protection on the pick?

Fuck yeah.

They everyone should have been fired for not doing that because the trade, but I really liked the player.

And I, to me, I was trying to think like, who are their actual keepers?

If you had to say, cause I think fears, I don't know what fears is.

He's certainly not a bust.

I don't know if uh, When you think of the situation Cleveland's in with Garland, who I think would be the best possible upside for somebody like Fierce, but Garland could still get targeted by everybody.

But I still think Fierce is a keeper.

I think Queen's a keeper.

And I think Murphy is a keeper, even though they might trade him, which we'll talk about in a second.

Are there any other keepers on this roster for you?

That might be it.

And Murphy, as you mentioned, with the trade illusions, is just so roundly valuable to every other team in the league that maybe he seems like a keeper.

But you get the one offer that's too good to pass up on.

I could absolutely see that.

Otherwise, I'm with you that there are a lot of individual players that I like on this team.

I mean frankly, Sadiq Bae has been playing really good basketball lately for a team that really has no given him no reason to do that other than trying to get healthy again and put his career back on track.

But between him and Herb Jones even like I mean Kavon Looney is getting like DNP CDs for the Pelicans these days.

There's a lot of guys who I think are situationally useful, but are not useful put all together.

And that is a bummer of a situation.

And thank goodness for Derek Queen for making it watchable.

And I think to your point about him being a player of real import for this team and a keeper in exactly that way.

The fact that Queen is so surprising as a ball handler and as a creator that he's doing all these things, that he has the unusual footwork.

It doesn't just make for a good league pass fodder.

It makes for genuinely inventive playmaking.

It makes him really tough to pin down, even for like the example you said with Luke Cornett.

Luke Cornett's a really good positional defender, and he's trying to figure this guy out.

Yeah.

Well, we'll see if he can be the face of the Vegas franchise in three years, when they're the Las Vegas probably not the Pelicans, the Las Vegas deuces or whatever they call themselves.

You can't be the deuces.

You can't volunteer yourself as number two.

Yeah, good point.

Oh, yeah.

Aces, deuces.

I'll come up with a better one.

I have three trades.

I'm just going to throw you quick for them.

I would trade Herb Jones right now.

I think at the contract he's at, like literally what the Lakers need.

Um, and it's easy.

It's like connect Kleber and a 2031 first call it in.

And now you have, yeah, that's, that's like, just call that in.

He's on a good contract and maybe it would even take more than that.

I really like Alvarado for one of these contenders.

And I was going through trying to find the perfect team and was looking at Houston for a while.

But I'm not sure I want to mess with the Reed Shepard thing because I still feel like how he grows is going to determine so much for them.

But Minnesota seemed nice, which is easy.

That's like Dillingham and you do a pick swap in 32.

Especially for Minnesota, very quietly, Rob Dillingham got yanked out of the rotation last night.

We're getting like real live Bones Highland minutes.

It's really rough.

Bones did what he could with those.

But yeah, the idea of someone like Alvarado in that spot, I do quite like too.

Yeah.

I mean honestly, from what we've seen of Rob, he's young but is more just a contract that you can exchange for Alvarado, maybe more than an asset, unless he shows something.

Yeah, it's tough.

That's why a swap has to be in there.

But the one I really like for them, and Detroit has some flexibility.

So basically they could trade Sasser and let's say, a 2030 unprotected first for alvarado, which seems like a lot maybe you put a top three on it whatever, and it would save new orleans four million.

They'd get a pick.

And then you'd put over like, could detroit be more cobra kai?

Actually they could.

Let's put jose alvarado on the team and have him trying to, uh to do the sneak around as somebody's inbounding the ball and then steal, like all the annoying stuff he does on top of all the other annoying guys they have.

That'd be tremendous, it's just perfect.

He's like he's out of central casting.

So sign me up for that trade.

And then here's my last one.

I was trying to think of a clips.

Hail Mary.

The clips are like three wins or three losses outside of the 10 seat.

It's not like their season's over.

Do you roll the Zion dice?

Have we reached that point?

Is this like the?

I'm down a million dollars at the casino in Vegas and I'm just going to put another million on red and try to win it all back.

Have we reached that point if you're the Clippers?

Is that a thing you've done?

No.

I'm the hypothetically movie scene.

The Clippers are in the movie in Vegas.

It's Saturday night.

It's four in the morning and they're down a mil.

And there's, like you know, the casino boss is watching them and there's some bad guys in the background and ready to beat them up if they don't make the money back.

That's where they are right now.

It's the kind of bet where, as you try to make it at the table, they make you sign some kind of waiver just to make sure that this is all above board.

So I think with the Zion situation, that would have to be the case too.

Like they're just in such a weird spot.

And frankly, like I salute you for trying to find the silver lining, and where the Clippers are right now as far as their distance from 10th place.

But They feel kind of hopeless.

They feel pretty lifeless, to be honest with you.

The silver lining for them, I don't know if you've watched any quips.

Too much.

Kawhi's moving around pretty well.

He's doing fine.

There's still some moments for him on defense where it's like, oh.

I'm sure there's contenders and people with big contracts that are also looking at him.

Yes.

Kind of going, huh.

Um, I think they'd be nuts to trade for him because God knows when he's playing but, like the Zion, trades easy because they have the Collins and Bogdanovich expirings.

You throw the Pelicans at 2030 unprotected first.

I don't think the Pelicans want to be in the Zion business anymore.

I don't think so.

I can't imagine they're going to extend that deal.

Maybe you even put a top three in the first, but I really.

The team I really wanted to take a swing for him was the Warriors, but I couldn't figure out the money.

It would basically be like a five for three.

Those things never happen.

But the Clippers... So just think conceptually.

Harden.

Yeah.

Kawhi.

Zion.

Zubat's.

And some sort of person in the corner who's just ready to make a shot.

And you just have this really weird team of guys that can go one-on-one, depending on who your weak spot is.

And you have some rebounding.

And then if Zion turns into Zion again and maybe they could just spend a ton of money on him, unlike what the Pelicans have done to try to help his health.

Maybe you're dominating the boards.

Zion's had moments over the last couple years that you're like wow, is this one of the 10 best guys in the league?

You seem dubious.

Well, Zion playing is rarely the problem.

As you mentioned, it's Zion not playing.

That's the issue for the Pelicans and would definitely be an issue for a Clippers team that has the same concerns about Kawhi, that is out Bradley Beal for the year already, that's had Derek Jones out of the lineup and that's been kind of a disaster missing him like they've had so many guys in and out that the idea of investing in yet another player who might not be available I just don't know if spiritually they could bring themselves to do that counter the more players you have who might not be available odds are like three of them will be available So you're advocating... If you have five guys who might not be available, maybe two of them will be available at all times.

This is like a cyborg model.

Maybe you can put Zion's arm and Kawhi Leonard's core and maybe there is a workable player between five of these guys.

Can I get two of these guys at any time?

Anyway, those would be my three fixes.

Number 28 is Brooklyn.

Somehow six and 17...

A couple Nets fans in my life have been chirping about the Porter trade.

I would urge them to settle down.

He's been good, though.

Yeah, sure.

Sure.

Yeah.

Fine.

That's probably the appropriate response.

But he has been quite good in a situation where I don't think that was necessarily a given.

He beat the Celtics.

Like he just destroyed them in Boston, right in front of my dad running the same play over and over again.

My dad was furious at Missoula after the game.

I was thinking about a Porter...

Warriors kind of match, which I know has been floated around out there.

But I thought, you know, from a money standpoint it gets a little tough because it would have to be like a three for one and the Nets already have 100 players.

But conceptually, just putting Porter in that Kaminga spot Um, somebody who's been in big games, somebody who's a streaky score which I kind of feel like the Warriors need.

They need that one wildcard guy who can rebound a little bit.

I thought that was mild and interesting.

I don't really know what Brooklyn does.

Uh, the next team is teams.

I have some questions on number 27, Sacramento six and 18 with a net rating of 10.

Rob, I just want to go through this sequence with you.

Just to commemorate how amazing it was.

After the light, the beam, lose to the Warriors in seven.

Just everything that happened.

They drafted Carter, who got hurt and missed his whole rookie season, right ahead of Ware and McCain.

So you start there.

They spent $74 million on DeMar DeRozan, basically because...

They were at a furniture store and they already had a full living room.

But somebody was like, hey, we have this couch for half off.

Like, whoa, that's a nice couch.

And they just bought the couch.

They had no idea where to put it.

Stacked it on their other couch.

I'm sure it'll work.

We'll put the couch on top of the couch.

They gave Sabonis a $186 million extension like a year early for no reason competing against nobody.

That was weird.

They turned Mike Brown into Doug Christie.

Yep.

That was odd.

They turned De'Aaron Fox into Zach Levine a 27 Spurs pick that will probably be in the 20s and a 2031 Wolves pick, which reunited DeRozan and Levine, who already had failed together in Chicago.

They watched Tyrese Halliburton lead Indianapolis to the finals.

They gave Keegan Murray $140 million, which I think is more than Jalen Johnson got.

Is that true?

Right at that same number?

It's right in the Jalen Johnson neighborhood.

They gave Dennis Schroeder 29 million for two years and then signed Russell Westbrook, who immediately took Dennis Schroeder's job.

And it was the rare situation of they have to now trade Dennis Schroeder, who they can't trade yet because they just signed him.

And now they have to get rid of him.

They have zero tradable assets except for Keon Ellis and Sabonis.

And they buried Keon Ellis.

And I don't even know if he has value anymore.

And I mentioned all of this because this is the team that's probably getting the number one pick.

When you do that many dumb things in a row, this is how the NBA works.

They just hand you the number one pick and you get to basically start over.

But what did I miss?

Did I miss anything?

I think you hit all the main salient points.

So, in terms of the number one pick, is that the basketball gods awarding them or is that a shadowy cabal within the league office freezing an envelope?

No, I don't think the shadowy cabal wants to help the Sacramento Kings.

Yeah.

I just think this is how the league works sometimes, where it's like wow, you've done that many stupid things in a row.

See, we say that.

But if that were true, wouldn't the Kings have had many, many first round picks over the years?

Oh, that's a really good point.

Like they operate in a different nebulous space than basically anyone else in the league.

And you're right.

Like I would add, only in terms of the bright spots this season, relatively speaking.

Like Yes, a bonus has been out for now.

There were bright spots.

Well, quite muted, but, you know, a slight blinking light off in the distance.

That is Maxime Reno, who's been giving them like actually decent minutes at the five.

Wow.

This is what I'm clinging to watching Kings games.

I'm like, can I just get more neat Clifford minutes, please?

Can I get literally anything with a pulse happening in this game that isn't like Zach Levine gunning for whatever it is that Zach Levine guns for.

I think they are the wild card of league pass every night where you go to the games and they're either down 30 or they're like beating Denver by 10.

And you're like, I just, what's happening?

Usually they're getting killed.

I don't know how to fix it.

It's the worst ownership situation in the league.

I think that's fair.

And you know, Vivek seems like a nice guy, but this couldn't couldn't be worse from really the moment he bought the team.

I can't even imagine being a Kings fan.

I've never been.

I guess I was in somewhat of a situation like this with the Patriots before the Sullivan sold, but to be in a situation where your team is just owned by somebody who's just proven to be inept and then they won't sell the team.

I don't know how you I at some point, you I don't know how you keep caring about at the same level when there's no chance for it to get better.

Because as long as this person's involved, it will never get better.

And not just inept, but very involved.

Can we just get Vivek like a fidget spinner and get him an office in the corner?

I think we just need to keep him busy doing something that is not running this particular team.

It's the team that didn't take Luka Doncic.

And...

That alone would be the thing people mention for 10 years, but there's 40 other things to mention.

Do you think, has the Luka trade supplanted the did not take Luka Doncic discord?

It just kind of put them off in the shadow, giving them some cover.

26, Chicago.

I can't believe they've fallen to 26.

They're 9 and 14.

The moment Kobe White came back, it just kind of fell apart.

Not to blame him, but they had a nice thing going for a couple games without him.

And then when he came back, I don't know what happened.

I have a small question on them.

A, they passed on Queen to take a guy who's now out for the year.

The French guy who people thought they'd reach for anyway when they took him.

That was bad in itself.

I searched Bulls Reddit.

Did a deep dive on Bulls Reddit to find out if there was info.

What's the vibe over there?

Oh, it's grim.

Did they pass on the Pelicans offer or was the offer made for?

We'll give you next year's first for the 12th pick.

Nobody seems to know for sure if the Pelicans dangled that trade to anybody other than Atlanta at 13.

My guess is if you like Queen that much, you probably dangled him at 10, 11, 12.

I would think, yeah.

And if Chicago passed on that trade, fire everybody.

Like literally, if I own and I don't even know if the Bulls care about the team Reinstorf's.

I don't even know if they're following what's going on.

But if they, that's one where you bring everybody to the office and be like yo.

We checked the phone records.

We saw Joe Dumars called on June 28th at 4.30.

Can you tell us what happened in the call? and just grill them until they admit they turned it down.

That's a fireball offense, in my opinion.

That would be disastrous, especially given the way everything has turned out, where the Bulls are not even really as competitive as they would like to be, which is just basically being the eighth seed.

They're fighting close. to even be in the play and mix and they're young guys.

As you mentioned, like one of them is out for the season.

Modest Brazil is who I like a lot, is doing well, but like not blowing the doors off of anything necessarily.

And all of the oxygen has just been sucked out of their offense.

Like everything that they had going for them early in the year.

All the shots that were falling aren't falling.

No one really respects all that, like all that ball movement.

No defenses are really like falling forward or getting pulled by it anymore.

They're just daring them to beat them.

And guess what?

This collection of Chicago Bulls can't really beat people that way.

I really missed the two weeks when it seemed like Josh Giddey was a transformative superstar.

That was really fun.

It was just a triple-double waiting to happen every night.

It was great times.

Yeah, it was great times.

Now they run a lot, they throw the ball around, and they accomplish very little.

Unfortunately, sometimes the story of a Josh Giddey-led offense.

The last team I have in the dregs, sadly, is Indiana at 6-18.

Yeah.

Uh, they have one, two in a row.

Yeah.

So it felt.

It felt like they rounded up the tanks when they had all those injuries to start the season.

I picked them to go over when we did the overrunners for the year.

I still don't think that was the wrong pick.

I think they had all these injuries to start the year and they had already not had a Halbert and obviously lost Turner.

Yeah.

But I do think there's a world where, if you play this season 10 times, there's like six versions of it that play out like the Celtics season has, where the infrastructure and the guys you had and the guys who have had a taste in these playoffs kind of banded together and overachieved.

But they just had so much bad luck with all this stuff.

But the one thing is, the Turner thing is a huge thank God he didn't resign here for that money.

I think at this point right.

If you're them, Huff has the same stats.

Yeah, it would have been pretty costly.

And Turner, too, his value is depleted without Halliburton out there.

Their synergy is kind of generating what it is that he does so well offensively.

Honestly though, given those two gap years for Boston and Indiana, the Celtics can kind of, if they're overly competitive and do really well as they have been and continue to play this way, and then get Jason Tatum back later this season, next season, whatever they have enough talent to continue to be a really high-level contending team.

The Pacers, though, could use that top five pick or so.

Like honestly, this is not a.

It's a disastrous outcome in the present tense, because these games are a really rough watch.

So many guys are just in a way over their heads right now.

Given all those injuries, given the needs of the team, given that it's kind of a natural pivot point with Halliburton's injury, this is not the worst possible outcome for them.

I agree.

I'll be interested to see where they lean over the next like 30 days.

Yeah.

Cause now we're, we're in a situation now where you really have a chance to get a top three pick.

But if you like, if they're 12 and 22 in a couple of weeks, that all of a sudden now you're in the seven to 10 range, which will still be good in this draft.

All right, we're taking a break and then we're going to life support.

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The life support group led off by the LA Clippers at six and 18.

I have a small question.

I already mentioned it to you, but would anyone actually trade for Kawhi?

Is that a guy, does he have trade value, I guess is my question.

I feel like Embiid does not have trade value.

I agree.

I don't think Paul George has trade value.

Definitely not.

I think he maybe two months from now, if he played every game and looked good, maybe a mild piece of it.

Does Kawhi have trade value?

Our front office is like looking at tape of him and discussing him and wondering if they should make a play for him as like a very, very discount superstar move.

I think the answer with him is not that kind of opportunism.

It's not like the savvy front office that's making its calculated gamble.

It's who is going to be desperate enough to talk themselves into something like that.

Who will just be on the edge of.

If we don't pull out a guaranteed playoff spot this season, we're all going to lose our jobs.

Our team is falling apart.

And that's where I don't know who that team is.

That team that's really going to be so desperate that they would roll the dice on everything that Kawhi is but, most importantly, what he isn't, which is an every night superstar.

You can sort of build your foundation around and have a baseline expectation that he will play.

Yeah, the only team I could think of was Detroit.

You're way too good, though.

Well I know, but that's the only one where I could see them having a meeting about it and be like wow, we could just turn Tobias Harris and Ivy in a contract into Kawhi and just put Kawhi in the Tobias Harris spot.

Could we make the finals if we did that?

And then they would reach out to Kawhi and Kawhi would be like I don't like Colton, no thank you, please don't do this, um.

But that's the only one where it's like, if basically he's not, that he would be free because i, like ivy and harris, i think is a valuable veteran for them, it would cost them something.

But um, that's the only one where it's like oh, this is a noticeable upgrade.

And then you, when you watch the trade, who i think is really good, so much depends on cade in the last three, four minutes of these games.

I think that gets easier to stop in a playoff series When you're just watching it for two straight weeks and they're just doing the same thing every time.

They don't have that second wild card something yet.

And Kawhi would be the highest possible version of that if he was healthy.

But I still feel like they need... I don't think they need to go all in.

They certainly don't need to trade for Anthony Davis or anything like that.

But they need some sort of somebody.

Maybe it could be Ivy.

I don't know.

Maybe.

Is there a Cleveland case?

The problem is they can't do trades.

It has to be a one-for-one where the contracts are exact is the only way to do it.

Unless they shed salary and then did it.

There are some funky ways to kind of get around the can't aggregate salaries rules.

It's all needlessly complicated, very difficult to engineer, but in terms of a team that needs some of what Kawhi does and might also be feeling the pressure a little bit to provide it almost immediately yeah, they're a team that I would at least think about.

It's certainly the team that has to feel way different than they did a month ago.

Yeah, where it's like wow, we could really make a playoff run here to now it's it's December 9th.

They have to be looking at the East going.

We can make the finals.

Like, absolutely, we can make the finals.

There's no question.

Are we good enough to do that?

What is the move?

And they have a lot of flexibility to do it.

So I would rather see the Clippers trade Zion.

23, Milwaukee, 10 and 15.

I still like this team and I don't think we ever saw it.

No.

Did, did all these guys ever play together?

We never really saw everybody together other than for like two games.

And I still like the concept of Giannis and shooting.

And we just, you know the the thing is, the East the way it is, there is still going to be a playing team if they don't trade Giannis.

Sure.

He'll be in the mix for that stuff.

I mean, do you think we will see another Giannis game in a Bucs uniform?

Is the alarm blaring that loudly or is it possible that once he comes back from the calf stuff that we might see that team?

I don't think anyone's trading for him unless they see him running around for two weeks.

This is fair.

This is like the decade of being afraid of calf injuries.

This is what's happened.

I have a hipster question for you.

Like, you know, with like alternative music, be like Pearl Jam was actually Stone Temple Pilots.

Those people that tried to zag against the famous bands.

Was the Miles Turner signing slash Dane buyout actually worse than the Dara Queen trade?

It hasn't been good.

No one's going to argue that it's been good.

But really, at least the Pelicans got Dara Queen, who's really good.

Really, really good.

The Bucs might have to now trade Giannis while also paying Dame for the next few years and also overpaying Miles Turner.

That actually might be more of a disaster if you're looking at.

I mean, it's more of a disaster that they didn't put the protections on the Atlanta pick.

I get it.

But if you're actually looking at who got less out of this whole thing, it might actually be Milwaukee.

It might be, but I at least understand why it happened.

It does have a whiff of like, what if the LeBron Cavs trade for Antoine Jamison and Shaq?

Like there is that kind of vibe of like the last ditch effort before the disaster strikes.

But I can at least understand that kind of desperation.

As you mentioned with the Pelicans, there's just like no justification for it.

It wasn't needed.

It wasn't necessary.

You could probably have pulled off that deal without like with much heavier protection on that pick.

And so why it turned out the way it did.

No one really knows except Joe Dumars why this turned out the way it did.

I think all of us could look at the Bucks and say yes, we don't agree with the mechanics, and it's going to come back to bite them.

But this is a team that's on the edge and feels like they need to do something dramatic.

I hated it, but I understood it.

Yeah, I didn't like it.

Next category is a really fun one.

Thanks to all these teams for a lot of league pass joy this year.

The Young and the Frisky.

Starting out with number 22, Utah.

Will Hardy might disagree with the young and frisky, at least the frisky part of that as of late.

I don't know if he did get mad.

He did get mad.

He got big mad.

He wants these motherfuckers to fucking play harder, which fair.

And honestly, that's the way you have to coach these teams in this range sometimes.

Yeah, I wouldn't call George consistent, but he has had some moments.

But this team's been in some fun games this year.

Especially for us on the West Coast.

They've just been in some good ones.

They've been in some real high offense battles.

They're doing everything right.

21 Portland who really fell off. over the last couple weeks.

In their defense, they have no guards.

They just have no one healthy.

They're starting City-Sissoko.

That is the state of things for the Blazers.

Yeah, it was tough because they threw a lot on Drew's plate and it went great for about two weeks, but he's in his mid-30s and got hurt immediately.

Charlotte, number 20.

7-17.

Two wins against Toronto.

Uh, Zach ridiculed me when I made them my number six pick in the league pass draft a couple of weeks ago.

They're a great league pass team.

I love watching Charlotte.

Yes.

I really enjoyed it.

Uh, I, I just really enjoy when they have all their guys.

Brandon Miller is one of those guys.

If you catch on the right night, you're like, this guy might make five all NBA teams.

It's weird.

The weak part of their team is the mellow.

Hmm.

Not knowing what you're getting from him game to game.

And then even when he plays, then they defer to him too much.

And that's the part they can't figure out.

And I also don't think... Do you think he has trade value at this point?

He's such a matter of taste that if he does have trade value, it's with only a very select group of front offices at this point.

Between...

Honestly, the injury history is a huge part of it.

Everything you take away from like is he a winning player?

And that whole conversation and then, within it, not having his best individual season.

That's just a couple too many disqualifiers to really have a robust trade market.

Who hangs up faster, Harden for Lomelo, straight up?

I think the Hornets have to hang up.

That doesn't get them anywhere, does it?

It makes them pretty interesting.

That's just you getting out of the Lomelo business once and for all.

Yeah.

I agree with you.

I think the Hornets hang up faster.

Personally, as someone who likes watching the Hornets, I don't want to watch the James Harden Hornets.

That's not what I'm signing up for.

Well, this leads to one of my big questions.

Could this be the best NBA draft since 1996, this draft we have now?

And I'm going to use it by this way to assess it.

How many guys from this draft could you see conceivably making an all-NBA team and being one of the 15 best guys in the league?

I'm just going to list some names and you tell me when to stop.

Okay.

And the threshold was all-NBA, right?

One all-NBA team.

Okay.

Flag.

Harper.

You're pausing.

No, I'm in.

I was saying keep rolling.

I'm down for a potential Dylan Harper all-NBA.

I could see Knipple.

Edgecombe?

Maybe.

I mean, it's maybe for all these guys.

All-NBA is tough.

Edgecombe's like 15 years old.

I don't even think he's fully through puberty yet.

He's a baby.

VJ Edgecombe could be a seven-time All-Star and never make an All-NBA team.

True.

All right, so this is all conceivably maybes.

Yes.

Cedric Howard.

I don't see it.

All-Star, maybe.

All-NBA.

You're not buying, like, this is the next Kawhi?

You haven't seen any of that stuff?

How many all NBA teams has Kawhi made?

He's made at least one.

Yes.

It certainly fits the one.

He said to be one of the best 15 guys once.

That's true.

Maybe Cedric Howard can have like that kind of peak season where he does cut in, but I don't necessarily see that kind of potential.

First team all defense, 20 points a game.

Derrick Queen.

Oh, you thought about it.

I'm tempted.

It's not inconceivable.

I have for the first six are yes or maybe for all six.

Ace Bailey is when it starts to go sideways.

Yeah, that's a no.

So it's six.

And maybe one that we're not even thinking of because these drafts sometimes are late.

There's a late bloomer we didn't say.

So 1996, Iverson, Kobe, Nash, Ray Allen, Stojakovic, Marbury, Jermaine O'Neal, Sharif Abdur-Rahim.

Eight All-NBA guys.

Pretty good.

It's fucking amazing.

Three MVPs?

So even getting... I was looking it up.

Even getting six would be the number two highest total, I think, for a draft.

Yeah, I was going to say 03, but I don't think they have eight All-NBA guys.

Yeah, and then there's a couple others that are like four.

I think there was one five, but for the most part, really hard to find depth like this.

All right, next category.

I love Charlotte, by the way.

Keep doing what you're doing, Charlotte.

Signs of Human Life is our next category.

Number 19, Dallas at 9 and 16.

Would you trade Anthony Davis?

Because I would not.

For what?

I would ride this out for six more weeks.

Yeah, I don't really see the urgency in it.

Me neither.

I get the ultimate want to turn the page as a franchise, I can understand.

But Anthony Davis is really good.

And honestly, when healthy, very good for this team.

So I don't really see...

I'm not feeling that absolute push that we have to get this done, even by the trade deadline.

To be honest with you,

I am only caring about Flag if I'm Dallas.

What's good for Flag?

What's good for Flag is to play with Anthony Davis.

That's it.

Put him together.

It's also to play with Ryan Nembhard, apparently.

That guy.

Undrafted free agent, Ryan Nembhard.

Turns out playing in big games for your entire high school and college life and then leading the NCAA in assists.

Maybe you should be one of the 60 players drafted.

Pretty good.

When do you think?

Who writes the first?

What's the date of the first story about?

Could the Mavericks be a stealth contender?

When it's like Kyrie could come back on, you know, February 22nd, they have a chance to be like a nine or a 10 seed.

Would you want to say, when does that all start?

You think Christmas?

Uh, not this season.

I don't think there's no way.

No, there's no way.

Who is writing that story?

Just, you know, people.

Somebody.

People might.

Maybe there's a whisper in some back alley somewhere.

I didn't say it would be a credible person.

Yeah, I don't think it would be super credible.

I don't think they have that in them.

But they're scoring again.

I fully support them actually playing point guards.

It's turned out to be a masterful move for them.

They've been much more enjoyable to watch and ultimately just much more successful.

The irony of one of the 10 best point guards ever, Jason Kidd, discounting the value of a point guard for three weeks.

It's pretty good.

Makes you think he was trying to get Nico Harrison fired.

It doesn't add up.

It does not add up.

It does not add up at all.

But maybe the thinking is, I am the point guard, right?

As the coach, I will manipulate the pieces on the board and control everything I can control and just have my reasonable facsimile D'Angelo Russell, classic traditional point guard, who now cannot play on the court without a point guard chaperone.

Maybe that was the thinking, but did not work out regardless.

This would be another fun Alvarado team, by the way.

Memphis, number 18.

A lot of signs of life.

The moment Zach Eaddy came back, Wells is playing again.

Coward looks great.

And it's one of those things where it's like, A, I don't know if I care if John Morant comes back.

And then B it's like would you think about trading Jaron Jackson and just trying to get more picks and building around young guys?

And I don't know.

Do you need Jaron Jackson on this team?

Do you like Jaron Jackson as like a high asset?

Are you a Jaron Jackson fan?

I am still a fan.

I think in part I mean what he is defensively is clearly potentially transformative for a lot of teams.

I also think, as far as bigs go, his ability to drive not just like shoot but actually drive out of those situations is incredibly useful.

And it diversifies what Memphis does when he's out there.

I like the element that he brings to this team to a degree where I'm not rushing to get rid of Jaron necessarily either.

They do need some guard though, whether that's John Morant, or eventually Scottie Pippen, or eventually Ty Jerome.

One of those guys will eventually play and that'll probably help them, because God bless Vince Williams moonlighting at point guard and winning games and doing it.

It's been an incredible process, but I don't know that that's anyone's dream of what this team looks like.

Weirdly fun league past him.

I think Edie is a huge part of that though.

Yeah.

Like, and that's the thing.

Cause before the early returns on Zach Edie and his NBA career felt a little novelty to me.

It was like, you know, they would feed him in the post, he would get points.

And then in other ways, both defensively and on on the board.

Sometimes to be honest with you would end up giving back a lot of those points.

And so it was like, is this guy an actual difference maker in the NBA?

I mean, he's been the Grizzlies best player in the vast majority of these games.

He's like really changing the way that everyone around him is playing and in a way that feels pretty sustainable, feels like something that the Grizzlies can rely on for potentially a long time.

This is a different guy than we saw last year.

It's a bummer.

Charlotte passed on him at six a year ago because he's kind of exactly who would be the fun missing piece for that team.

And it was kind of dumb that they didn't take him or Klingon anyway.

Yeah, the only thing I was thinking with Jackson, if you're the Hawks and you're not getting Giannis,

Unless Jalen Johnson is in the trade, I don't think.

And I'm not trading Jalen Johnson in a Giannis trade where I also have to give up that New Orleans pick.

What's the point of trading for Giannis if I can't then try to win the title with Giannis?

I'm not giving away everything I have, so Giannis can be in a slightly better position than he's in with the Bucs.

But if I could flip Porzingis' expiring and that New Orleans pick and maybe one other pick for Jaron Jackson.

And put him in the defense, his ceiling on defense with some of the other guys I have.

Yeah.

That's pretty interesting.

And then if I'm Memphis and I could have a chance, I'm not going anywhere anyway and I have a chance to get a top five pick and kind of move away from this model that doesn't work anymore.

Anyway, I'm thinking about it.

So if you're Atlanta in that scenario, are you looking to play Jackson at the five or are you looking to play Johnson, Jackson and Okongwu all together?

Okongwu is my backup center.

My crunch time lineup, I just have length and switchability everywhere now.

Yeah.

Right?

And Jackson can do some of the stretch stuff that Porzingis does, but defensively is just a different animal.

And now the no-tray Hawks, there's a couple lineups you could put out there that's like, Jesus.

I don't know.

I kind of dig it.

I hadn't really thought about Jaron Jackson as a fit for them, but he does kind of play into the way that they're kind of styled right now.

Yeah.

Doesn't help.

I think their rebounding is going to be the issue for them in the playoffs.

And he's not helping that because he's a terrible rebounder for his position.

Yeah.

Number 17, Philly.

Just a quickie question.

Do you have, I think for all NBA, Jokic and SGA and Luca have to be the three.

Yep.

If they're eligible, we should say.

True.

Giannis, I don't know if he's going to play enough games.

But is Maxie right now in pen as a first-team NBA guy for you?

I think he's going to end up one by default just because between Wemby and potentially Luka and potentially Giannis, those guys getting disqualified.

Maxie has made a compelling case, as anyone else in the league basically.

Would you have him... So let's say it's Maxie against Cade and Brunson and Ant.

Is he the leader of those four?

Because for me, I give him a slight edge because...

I just think what he's done day to day and the burden he has on that team and how many minutes he's playing and everything he has to do night to night and the joy he has and what an awesome teammate he seems like.

I just, to me, he would be the number one guy.

Some of the Knicks fans would be like, that's not fair, Brunson.

The Detroit fans would be like, that's not fair.

We're winning with Cade.

I think Cade probably has the best argument, but I honestly would have Maxie over all those guys.

I think Cade has the best argument and is obviously the best player of that group, just in a vacuum.

And yet I'm with you.

I think Maxie, I think ultimately for me it would probably come down to Cade and Maxie because of how much Cade is driving and, as you said, how much the Sixers are relying on Maxie to the point where there's really no question whose team that is anymore, like where the future of Philadelphia's basketball lies.

It's all Tyrese Maxie, and I mean Vijay, Edgecombe and the other guards to a certain extent, but he's put them in, like shifted them in an entirely new direction, in gear To do what he's done and to basically eradicate the Embiid and George contracts, where Sixers fans don't even really care because they have Maxie and Edge come is just an amazing achievement.

Is Jalen a second team all-NBA for you?

Is who?

Is it Jalen Brown?

Has he been one of the 10 best players for you?

I want to talk about him for sure.

To me, he has to be in.

If he's not second, he's definitely third.

I think it's probably going to depend on that dogfight of how much of a glut is there for the second team.

Here's what's shocking about Jalen.

I mean, Giannis isn't playing enough.

Jalen has a case for being the best forward in the league right now.

Case for the best forward in the league.

It's centers and guards across the boards.

It's basically him versus... Luka's not a forward, right?

I don't think so, no.

Jalen Johnson, Scotty Barnes... if you consider Towns a forward.

It's like a weird forward situation here because we don't have Tatum.

But it's really all guards and centers.

And I think Jalen is the best pure forward in the league right now.

Siakam, go through all the rosters.

Well, did you say KD?

Oh, KD, I guess.

Yeah, I had him in.

But I don't think KD's been one of the 10 best players.

I think Jalen's been more impactful than KD this year.

Jalen's been going toe-to-toe with the best players in the league for years.

Three weeks, you know, is like the only real star in his roster and it's like night after night has answered it.

He's been really impressed tremendous, i think, shifting from obviously he's been a very good scorer for a long time but a little more of a come and go, score and bursts and runs kind of guy, becoming just one of the most reliable first option creators basically in the entire league on in terms like an every night basis, putting up damn near 30 a night.

The fact that the Celtics now have another one of those guys is pretty ridiculous for when Tatum comes back.

It's been just a remarkable trajectory for Jalen Brown, from a season where I expected the excess but thought it would come at more of a cost.

And he's just been everything they've needed him to be.

I'm stunned by this move that he has now, where he fakes like he's driving to the basket with his right hand and does the stop, the bend down crossover fall back 12, 13 footer.

It's unstoppable.

And it's not a move that he really had until this year.

He tried to do it for, but his dribble was always too high.

He would go picked.

And he was like and either I'm shooting threes, I'll shoot a 20 footer if I'm open, or I'm going to the basket.

And that was kind of his offensive game.

And now he has this sophisticated, he's averaging 16 two point shots a night.

Think about that.

Not even threes.

And he's shooting almost 50%.

So he's turned into this DeRozan, Kawhi kind of two-point shooter.

I just think he's been awesome.

And he's carried the load.

We'll talk about the Celtics in a second.

Phoenix, I have at 16%.

In the signs of human life, just because they're over under us 31.

The Brooks thing is incredible.

And Brooks has become now the most underrated player of the decade.

It's just like Dylan Brooks wins.

You can't refute it.

Definitely changes the thing.

I don't really fully understand the Phoenix thing.

I mean, they're only 14 and 10 or 15 and 10.

I think they're 14 and 10.

14 and 10.

The Gillespie piece is the part I don't understand the most, because they actually needed him last year.

And there were moments where he looked good, but then Bud just never played him.

Yeah.

And now when you watch him, he looks like he could be an all-star.

I know he won't.

But you know what I mean?

He's way more talented than they gave him credit for last year when they actually needed him.

I never understand that.

I mean, they beat the Wolves.

Devin Booker because Colin Gillespie turned into a fourth quarter supernova and that's just been a kind of a regular occurrence where it's been an incredible shooter he's I mean turned out especially for his size the playmaking has been really impressive like he sees lobs and cross court stuff that guards his size usually don't really really impressed honestly with his ball movement but really the Sun I know their defense gets a lot of attention because of Dylan Brooks and kind of the edge they play with now.

But this is a group of guys who either weren't on the team or weren't in these roles, a la Colin Gillespie, who stepped in this season and, just like knew, like that, exactly how to play together.

Like they just got the angles, the cuts, the timing really remarkable and very surprising given the players that they were able to cobble together there.

But it's just kind of worked.

And the coach is doing a great job.

I feel like we have more good coaches than we might have had at any point this century.

Where I look around the league and I'm like, that guy's a good coach.

Yeah, that team's really well put together.

We don't have a lot of Doug Christies, I guess is my point.

I feel like the general rules are always.

There are like five exemplary coaches who really help you a lot.

And there's five at the bottom that really kind of drag you down.

And everyone else is sort of in the soft middle of the bell curve or whatever.

Now the bell curve seems higher, right?

It's higher.

And there's like maybe one or two guys in the league in terms of the bottom end of coaches.

If that, I think...

The low-hanging fruit has just been picked up by basically every team out there, to the point that there's only so much you can do to really shoot your team in the foot.

We also have a couple coaches I think have in career years, like Missoula, Spoh.

There's people who are just doing... I think JJ's been really good.

I don't understand the Lakers' record at all with some of the limitations they have.

Some of the bad teams, like the Nets coach is really good.

I think the Raptors coach, I think that team's overachieved.

All right.

One more break and then with the top 15.

All right.

We'll rip through the trade machine crew really quickly because we've talked about these teams already on my pod a bunch.

Toronto's 15 and 10.

They fell back to earth a little.

Yeah.

They had some easy schedule stuff.

The first part.

I'm still not sure about this team.

Their fans were really chirpy when the record was good.

That settled down a little bit.

The most important thing to me is that Barnes just feels it still feels like he's gone up a level.

And this is the most I've liked watching him.

Ultimately, I'm not sure what the destiny of this team is.

Their bench seems like it saves their ass a bunch with Shed and Mamou and Agbaje, all these dudes.

They'll come in and they'll be down 10, all of a sudden they'll be up 8.

I'm not sure what the move is with them either, because I think it would be hard for them to make trades.

This is kind of their team, but they should be in that six to nine range, right?

Somewhere in there.

I don't think they're a top five team.

I think they have enough good players the Raptors do and salaries that could actually be cobbled together to get something important back that you kind of have to talk about them when any of these big potential deals come up.

Golden State, 13 and 12.

They're just too old.

They are too old.

And the Kaminga thing is now a catastrophe.

I mean, it just couldn't be worse.

And they seem, everybody seems to think they could trade him at January 15th for something.

Why am I trading for Kaminga?

Why do I want to pay him $22 million a year?

Like the Warriors, won't even play him and they need somebody like him, and he's not even playing anymore.

I think this is the thing that would worry me the most about trading for him is not like...

He can't be a superstar or can't be a team player or whatever.

It's.

He goes to these stretches where he'll start the season and play four games, doing what you want him to do as a team.

And then he'll just be off in the wilderness for 20 games.

Like he just does not have it in him in terms of the patience and the focus and the commitment to play consistently winning basketball.

And that's why you see even like Steph, Steph has been out.

Draymond's been out.

Jimmy Butler has been in and out.

They've been resting a bunch of guys.

This should be Jonathan Kuminga time.

And instead it is Pat Spencer time like that.

I think that's just like a damning.

It's a damning situation all around in terms of where he I would say where he finds himself, but it's really where he put himself.

Do you feel like Draymond's at the same level he's been at in the past?

I do not.

I don't either.

Still really good.

I wonder if that's a bigger issue for them.

And I think it has more to do with the league just got so much bigger that just philosophically, that 2017 type lineup that the Warriors could throw, or maybe earlier than that, 2015.

I don't know if that's doable anymore with the centers we have in the league.

It's like, oh, good, we're playing Zach Eady tonight.

Oh, here's Shang-Goon.

I just don't think it's sustainable in the same way.

So you almost need him as a four playing with a center.

But if that center can't shoot either?

Now I have two non-shooters in a league where everybody loves space.

And I just...

I wonder if that's almost a bigger issue for them than Kaminga.

Kaminga, whatever, it's 22 million a year.

If he plays, he doesn't play.

But figuring, unlocking that Draymond part because he does so many good things from a team defense standpoint, but the rebounding combined with the lack of size, I think it's a real issue for them.

The ship has sailed, but they won in 22.

That's the thing.

They've done everything they need to do.

Unbelievable title.

They did it.

They answered everything.

Atlanta, number 13, we've talked about them.

And then Miami at number 12.

Two Miami things.

They're 14 and 10.

Really, really fun league pass this year, team, which is shocking.

The Norm Powell thing, he was so huge for the Clippers last year.

And then the playoffs was up and down.

And then the feedback from the Clippers side was like, we didn't want to pay him an extension.

He would have been a problem all year.

Yeah.

And he goes to Miami and immediately becomes the same 25-point-a-game score.

He was in the first half of the Clippers season.

You can run crunch time offense through him.

He's great against good teams.

The better the team is, the better he is.

And that Collins and Beal combo for Powell almost single-handedly explains the Clippers season.

They basically just gave away 10 points a game Kawhi insurance for when Kawhi never plays.

An extra crunch time guy.

A guy who sucks the Clippers fan.

You can literally explain the entire Clippers demise with that trade.

Why?

And honestly, it's not just the Clippers, too.

I feel like the Blazers had their version of this.

The Raptors had their version of this with Norm Powell.

This is just like so many teams that have talked themselves out of time.

He touches the ball right but granted, don't trust this.

Yeah sometimes, you know, sometimes doesn't always pass a lot.

At times, earlier in his career especially, was more of a liability defensively, but I think it's really worked on that part of his game has just become a dead-eye shooter, a go-to score, and this is where, as I'm getting into, like you know, we're almost in all-star season bill as far as like penciling in our teams and It looks like there's probably only going to be room for one member of the Miami Heat.

It has to be Powell.

Does it have to be?

For me, it does.

Yeah.

It has to be.

I think Bam is a better player than Norm Powell.

And ultimately the Heat, are still a defense-first team that is winning mostly on that side of the ball.

But Powell is also riding the wave of everything in terms of their reinvented offense.

It's so symbolic of why they feel different this year.

I'm with you.

I think he's going to get a lot of votes, but I'm not just ready to rule out Bam's importance in all this.

Well, it's also, what are we at?

The 25 game mark?

When do we have to vote?

Do we have like 12 more?

Yeah, at least I would hope.

My other question, because you know, If they could trade the Rozier contract, it puts them in play for a bunch of players, whether Kawhi Leonard, who we mentioned earlier, Giannis at the high end, Jaron Jackson I mentioned name a player they're in play for.

But if you can take the $26 million expiring Rozier contract put it with one or two other assets.

Now you can mix and match anybody.

I could try to get Trey Murphy.

We'll take Jordan Poole's contract with Trey Murphy.

We'll throw these contracts back and all our picks like whatever it is, you can get whoever you want.

So, and I did a deep dive on this.

Unclear if Charlotte knew about the investigation when they traded him.

They've never said publicly.

My guess is they knew.

These teams always know.

So they trade him to Miami.

Odds are they knew he was being investigated for a gambling scandal.

That's pretty fucked up.

Yes.

That's like when OKC traded Jeff Green to the Celtics and knew he was hurt.

Teams will do this from time to time.

This is pretty fucked up.

Well, this is why you're getting the chatter about.

Is there going to be some kind of recompense to the Heat as a result?

Would they be getting some of a pick back or some of the protection back?

Right.

That was going to be my second thing.

It doesn't seem like Miami can get the pick back.

But it seems like they should.

And I don't want to defend the Heat because I hate the Heat.

But I think it's unfair.

It's their 27th first-round pick.

And it's crazy that they're not going to have that pick because they traded for Rogier, who was under a gambling investigation.

The other team didn't tell them.

They should get the pick back.

And if they got the pick back that unlocks the rest of their first round.

Picks 26 27 28, 29 they can do.

At that point you can really go after whoever.

But the other piece is they don't know if they can trade him yet until they actually put him in a trade and the other team agrees.

And then the league decides whether they could put him in a trade or not.

But the league won't tell them until the trade is.

It's like Why are you penalizing these guys for trading for a guy under false pretenses?

I've never seen the league fuck over a team like this, like this decade.

I think it's really weird.

I mean just a very cool situation all around, from the gambling scandal to now all of like the the web implications for all of these other teams.

It's ridiculous.

It almost feels like they're punishing Harrison a little bit.

And I don't really understand that part either.

I don't understand it.

I mean, the weirdest thing that ever happened in the league was when the great Reggie Lewis died with the Celtics.

And David Stern made them carry his cap figure for the next three years of the contract.

I did not realize that happened.

Yeah.

They carried it 94, 95 and 96, when you have these other things where it's like an injury exception.

They just made them care.

And everybody in Boston felt like that was just a fuck you to the Celtics.

This feels like a fuck you to the Heat.

And I don't really fully understand it.

Yeah.

How are there so many ways to get cap relief, all kinds of relief in terms of your team building flexibility.

There's a lot of mechanisms teams have to work with right now.

And yet there is no answer for the fact that we're staring down a massive gambling scandal in a league where gambling is only getting more prevalent.

And this is not the last time something like this is going to happen.

And so honestly, the league should take this opportunity to iron out what the protocols are, because this stuff isn't going away.

And what is the conversation when, like, so Pat Riley calls silver or Arison calls silver.

Let's say Arison calls silver.

He's like, yo, my guys told me we don't know if we can trade this Rozier thing or not.

I just want to check with you.

This seems crazy.

So we don't know if we can trade him until we complete the trade.

And then you guys tell us if we can include him.

And Sober's like, yeah.

Yeah.

Just a lot of no comment from the league office.

A lot of shrugging.

Can you give us a hint?

Like, would you approve the trade?

I can't.

It's just an insane situation.

All right.

Top 11, the wild cards, Orlando, 14 and 10.

Every time you feel like good things are starting to happen for them, something bad happens.

Although at least Franz didn't blow his knee out.

Yes, that in itself is a good thing.

Zach floated this out on his pod on Thursday and I was instantly jealous of it.

He told me on the phone he was going to do it.

I was like, fuck, that's a good one.

And it can't happen under the cap until the summer.

But I just thought as a thought experience, the Giannis for Palo straight up who says no is probably the best.

Who says no in the league right now?

Like if it was available, would orlando say it and just do it?

And it's about as big of an age disparity as we've had for a major trade.

Like it's the mitch richmond chris weber trade, kind of on acid.

I think i would do it if i was orlando.

I mean, I think I would do it if I was Milwaukee.

Just fundamentally, let's forget the cap, all the other components.

It can't happen anyway, but just fundamentally I would do it if I was both teams.

I think my general standing is I would almost always trade for Giannis.

There's really very few teams where I'm like, I don't want that guy.

I think this is one of those cases where part of my brain is saying no trading Giannis leans into the same kind of spacing problems that Orlando already has.

And the other part of my brain, which thankfully is much louder, is saying this is fucking Giannis Antetokounmpo.

And if you can trade for him, you trade for him, and you figure out all the other stuff later.

And with Paolo, who is immensely talented.

Talented just, surrounded by all kinds of questions as to what the best version of him will look like, or can he get there, or like even just something like the speed and the pace at which he plays.

There's still a lot kind of hanging up in the air.

There's nothing hanging up in the air with Giannis, to a point where I would feel I mean, of course you feel a little dicey about trading anyone that talented, that young, but if you're going to do it, you do it for someone like Giannis.

The nine year age gap, but it's a really interesting one.

Number 10, Cleveland, 14 and 11, net rating of three.

I have no fucking idea how this team has 11 losses.

It's inexplicable.

They don't seem like the happiest team.

No.

Have we reached peak Mitchell or Garland?

It's time to choose.

Is there a choice?

What is the choice?

Pick one, trade the other.

No, but I'm saying Donovan Mitchell is dragging this team around.

And Darius Garland, even when he's out there right now, does not look like the Darius Garland that we know and love.

And so I fully expect that version to be back at some point.

But when?

And is he going to be the kind of guy you can rely on to be healthy versus?

Mitchell's been one of the best players in the league.

Counter, you could get a shitload for Mitchell.

And then you bet on Garland.

I mean, obviously the move is to trade Garland.

Yeah.

I don't know who the suitor is for it.

And if I'm having meetings about should we trade for Garland?

I'm looking at all the injuries he's had.

Oh, yeah.

All were pretty fluky.

Yep.

They weren't like...

All these wear and tear like there's something structurally wrong, like in bead style injuries.

They're more like oh, that's a shame that that one happened.

It's more like breaking bones in your face.

You know, like there's just stuff that happens to him that I agree.

There's not like a chronic track record, but stuff does happen to him.

I'd be trying to trade for him if I was another team.

This would be somebody I would be targeting.

It was like, there's blood in the water.

Let's go get this.

The thing is, it's really hard with Cleveland because it has to be almost a perfect trade.

Or it has to be a team that can take him and give Cleveland less back, which is why look, I can't pretend to figure out what the Brooklyn Nets, how they approach stuff day to day, week to week.

But to me, this is like a perfect Brooklyn Nets situation where they're like 15 under the cap.

They could move a piece back.

Save Cleveland some money, get them under the apron where, now that maybe they can do a second trade, Send some picks that way and basically make a bet on Garland.

That's like a guy going forward.

That's what I would do.

I still feel like Garland can be that guy.

I feel like he can be the face of a franchise.

I don't know if he can be one of the 15 best personally, but I think he can be a guy that, on a really good team, could be your second or third best guy, because we've seen it.

He's already done it.

I like him much better on other teams, frankly, at this point.

I think he might just need a fresh start.

He might need honestly like alluding to this kind of guard and guard conversation maybe more of the keys, maybe more opportunity to kind of find his footing with all of that usage.

That might be a thing for him.

But as it stands like, I'm almost surprised that you lumped in the Cavs as a wild card, because there's not a lot of wild happening with this team.

Like they feel inert. they have too much talent.

I can't rule.

We've just seen it happen too many times where a team was slogging along for 25 games and then the light bulb went off and they have been massively injured.

Like they've been missing multiple guys in basically every game.

So it's like, that is a qualifier.

But at the same time I guys and and you know there's guys that I feel like, like Deandre Hunter, I'm not sure this is the right team for him.

Yeah.

There's more subtle moves they can make.

Um, it's funny.

You meant what you said about Garland.

I am in the stealth.

I feel that way about Austin Reeves as well.

Camp.

Hmm.

I love Austin Reeves when LeBron's not playing.

Yeah.

But when all three of them are playing, all of a sudden Austin Reeves is not as impactful or whatever, because he's on the same team with Luka Doncic and LeBron James.

Sure.

Yeah.

Game the other night we had 11 points and this is a guy who was averaging 29, but he's just the third option.

Um, Is there a Reeves and a ton of picks and other stuff for Giannis?

Anything?

If Giannis was like, I want to go to the Lakers.

That's where I've decided I want to go.

You told me to pick my team.

I've picked my team and it's the Lakers.

Is there enough with a Reeves as a headliner with all their picks?

That gets your attention, or is that a hang up?

Can you get there salary wise?

You would have to really patch together all their expirings to get there.

Vanderbilt Kleber, I mean Gabe Vincent, you'd have to really throw them all together.

How insane is it that both of these conversations are happening, where you are saying LeBron James maybe the greatest player of all time is getting in the way of Austin Reeves being Austin Reeves, which I both agree with and not like.

I think he's had a couple more games lately where it's like it's a usage rate thing, though Rob completely.

Luka is one of the highest usage rated guys in the decade.

And you have LeBron James.

He should have the ball.

Yep.

So now Reeves is kind of over here.

But part of his job is to put up 30 a game when LeBron is out.

It's part of the modulation of what makes him valuable.

But the other part of this is we are earnestly floating Austin Reeves as the primary return in a Giannis trade.

And I'm not walking out of the room right now.

He's averaging 29 a game.

It's insane.

He's been awesome.

It's a relatively small sample size.

It's like 104 minutes.

But when LeBron, Luka, and Reeves all play together this year, they're minus 8.9.

Not ideal.

Kind of backed up what I'm watching because it is a little clumsy.

You have three guys who are, you know, Reeves, ideally, I love when he has the ball.

I love when he's like the main creator.

It's just not going to happen with those other two guys anyway.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I'm more bullish on Cleveland maybe turning this around than you, it sounds like.

I would love to see it.

I just don't think we've seen any kind of spark that's going to lead to that yet.

Maybe it'll still happen, though.

What actor is Evan Mobley?

Where you're like I know he's going to win the Oscar, but now it's like, oh shit, he's 45 years old and that happened.

He's consistently still really good, though.

It's just like, is he really good in a leading capacity?

Is he going to be more of a character type?

It's like, oh, in Train Dreams, he was great.

Might get nominated.

Is he, is he a Val Kilmer?

Like, does he have that charisma?

I mean, look, uh, defense has charisma in its own way, you know?

True.

I, but I agree with you.

Like he's in a, he's in a weird spot.

I think we would all love to see it.

All right.

Number nine, the sleeper.

San Antonio.

Let's go.

16 and 7, and they haven't had Wemby for three weeks.

Net rating 3.8.

This Dylan Harper thing.

Wow.

Speak on it.

What are you seeing?

I was thinking about all-time situations where somebody had this crazy luxury thing of somebody who is clearly going to be awesome, like maybe even like hall of fame awesome, and they don't really need him in the early part of their career and anything he does is like a bonus.

And it was like the celtics were in this situation with mikhail where he was like there were games he didn't even play crunch time for the first couple years.

It's like one of the 50 best players of all time.

Rodman on the pistons was like this.

But you have this crazy talented monster asset yeah, And it's like Oh, you're going to do something awesome.

That'd be great.

Um, he can do so many things offensively already.

And he looks like he's 25.

Some of the moves, like you can't even remember when you're watching him, what hand he shoots with.

Yeah.

Um, He's so comfortable bouncing off people and getting to the rim.

And I'm just absolutely in love with him as a player.

I fucking love Dylan Harper.

What a pick.

What a fucking miracle for them.

He just gets into the lane about as easily as anybody in the league right now.

And it's not all brute force.

It's not all pure speed.

He is just kind of bouncing between people.

The footwork is really great.

Just a really clever player.

And he's going to have to figure out some of like the big picture stuff on running a team.

Like that's just a natural part of the evolution.

But for him to be in this like low stakes role, as you're saying, where he can just come in and be himself, it's hard not to be blown away by that on a nightly basis.

Really competitive.

It's funny watching him.

It's like in football.

You see all these running backs and then there's like three running backs every year that are just different than all the other guys.

Like it's like Jameer Gibbs right now where you're like, that guy's just different.

Like, if he's in space, he's breaking it.

If he's, you think that he's going to get tackled behind the line he got out of it.

They just move differently and cut differently, which is what it's like watching him.

Like he, he cuts and moves like a running back.

It doesn't even really seem like a basketball player to me sometimes, but that guy is just to get that.

Dude at number two is after getting Wemby is one of the one of the bigger combo miracles we've seen.

So for me, it's like, I'm doing everything I can.

If I can get Trey Murphy, I found them doing everything possible.

Harper is untouchable.

Castle is untouchable.

Sure.

Wemby is obviously untouchable.

Fox is untouchable.

I'm not trading Luke Cornett either.

You can have everyone else I have and all, and we can talk picks and all that stuff.

But if I can keep that nucleus but add Trey Murphy to it, I can make a real run at OKC, not this year, but maybe a year or two years from now.

Yeah.

That would be my goal.

It would have to be a pick space conversation.

I think because, like I also love Devin Vassell for this team and he's been awesome lately, in particular during this like offensive swoon, where they've just been blowing teams out, like really just outscoring teams.

Frankly, he's been really important to that formula.

But you're right.

Couldn't he be the centerpiece?

Do you like Murphy more as an asset for this team than Bissell?

Because I would rather have Murphy.

I would rather have both, is what I'm saying.

If there's a way to engineer it where it's a more picks-oriented return for New Orleans, and if that's enough to dangle in front of them the problem, as you mentioned earlier in some of the trade conversations with the Spurs are their picks going to be valuable?

Are San Antonio's own draft assets actually that enticing to teams anymore?

I would think you would have to hesitate if you're a team like the Pelicans.

They have an Atlanta pick a year from now and they have a Dallas pick a couple of years from now.

Swap, I think.

Yeah.

Swap.

They have a Celtics pick a couple of years from now, but you're right.

They don't have that like killer pick, which is why I think they would have to put somebody good in it.

But all right.

One more quick break and then we got to talk about Celtics.

All right.

We're down to the top eight.

And somehow we have not mentioned the Boston Celtics yet, who I have, in their own category, called the one comeback away contender.

And that comeback is Jason Tatum.

The Celtics are 15-9 with a plus 7.2 net rating.

They are second in offensive rating.

They are first in threes made and 30th in pace and 30th in free throw attempts.

Nemeus Keita is plus 16.7.

So good.

Jordan Walsh looks like he might be a first-team ball defense guy, the way this is going.

He got DMPs the first month of the season.

I have my take on what's going on here, but I want to hear yours first.

My take.

I've been struggling for the unifying theory of the Boston Celtics.

What is happening here?

Because...

This isn't even pandering at this point.

This isn't even you playing the Celtics too closely to your heart.

They are legitimately one of the best teams in the league right now, for reasons that are often a little elusive.

What I've come down on is this.

I think what they do and a lot of their success is driven by how successful they've been offensively right now, as you mentioned.

They win the possession battle almost every night.

The combination of a lot of offensive rebounding and not turning the ball over.

They have all these extra possessions.

And then they just like stretch that margin by taking as many threes as they do.

And so they take what should be like an incremental advantage and blow it out.

And if you have... 16 a game, Rob.

They're making 16 threes a game.

It's...

It's not like they have the greatest shooters in the world.

They have good shooters, but what they have is a commitment to taking them and a commitment to generating them, as has been kind of the Missoula style for a long time running now.

But that combination of like if you have elite possession, gaining talent and enough shooters to at least make this kind of engine work, I think that can clearly take you to some interesting places.

I agree with everything you said.

It's basically a system.

So if you're thinking like, How did they stumble into the perfect?

Nobody believes in us overachieving NBA blueprint that we've seen from time to time, right.

We saw it with the 2016 Celtics.

We saw it with the 03 Pistons.

We saw it with the 2011 Grizzlies.

Fundamentally, you still need a really good player leading it.

This isn't happening unless you have one really good player.

And they have one of the best 12 to 15 guys in the league in Jalen having his best season ever.

They have an absolute lunatic as a coach, one of the most over-competitive guys in the league, who's just a full-fledged absolute lunatic, who all he wants his team to do is win.

So they're never going to tank.

And he has an idea of how they should play.

But the biggest thing to me as I watch them game to game if you go through their top 11, every single guy has something to prove.

Every single guy has some sort of hunger for something.

So it's like Jalen Brown, Tatum's not here.

I've always thought I could carry a team like this.

So he's in.

Derek White, I've always thought I could do a little more offensively.

Here we go.

Same for Pritchard.

Simons, contract here.

Keita, I've never gotten a chance.

Hauser, finally getting more minutes.

You're going down the line.

Jordan Walsh, I would fucking kill somebody to play 25 minutes a game.

Hugo, I'm 19.

I'm a rookie.

Josh Minot, thank God I'm finally playing basketball.

There isn't a single guy in this team who's not like.

I'm so happy to be part of this and I will fucking kill myself for us to win games.

And you can feel it game to game.

And I think that's made the difference because they're going toe to toe against everybody.

The only team.

There's a Houston Rockets type team that they're just going to be pretty helpless against.

Teams with real size and rebounding, they just don't have enough.

But... they figured out how to play these wings that just all of them are maniac.

Like Hugo's a maniac.

They put him against towns last week and towns was like, you could see towns.

Like where did this guy come from?

Did you let him out of a cage?

What happened here?

Um, they just, they, they have a bunch of maniacs, Rob.

Yeah.

I think Look the top end of the rotation where I talked about Jalen Brown, him locking down that spot, as you mentioned, hugely important.

The middle part of the rotation, I think we all more or less bought in on, right?

Like the Derek Whites, the Peyton Pritchards, like those are not the guys you worry about.

To me, a lot of the team success is the trifecta of Jordan Walsh, Josh Minot, Hugo Gonzalez.

Like.

It's not like.

Normally when you take three flyers like that, maybe one guy hits, but they've all been good in various ways at different points in the season and sometimes overlapping all at the same time.

And they're all just enormously active.

I mean Gonzalez is a case in point where I'm trying to get used to his game at the beginning of the season and trying to decide is this just a guy who runs around a lot, or is he actually accomplishing things?

But the level of activity is just warping plays.

It's starting to get in people's heads.

It's starting to actually speed things up for players on the floor.

And I think you have that intensity from Walsh.

You have Minot, whose length can be incredibly disruptive.

And so, all of a sudden, you have this roulette wheel of energy players, who all are slightly different.

And I think that honestly really helps hold this rotation together in a lot of ways.

I think it's a little disorienting for teams, especially if you're not seeing a playoff series and it's just on the schedule.

And you played this team, this team.

Now you're playing this.

It reminded me, you might not have seen the Texans-Chiefs game on Sunday night.

I somehow missed that one.

Yeah, I figured you missed it.

But the Texans have the best defense in the league and they were just hitting the shit out of the Chiefs.

And then the fourth quarter, the Chiefs had a couple big drops.

And the reason they had the drops was because, you know, the guys have eyes in the back of their heads because they're getting absolutely nailed the whole game and after a while you get a little jittery.

You can feel it happening a little with the celts in some of these games, where it's like we took jordan walsh out, that guy who's who's been flying around like a maniac.

Now here's hugo and he comes in and he's a maniac for 10 minutes and then my nuts, so there's something about it, and missoula is like go go, go.

But they've been Really good for four weeks here.

And playing good teams.

As you're describing the Texans defense.

How is it possible that the Rockets and the Texans are just the same team right now?

Like, how is that a thing that's feasible?

Yeah, if the Texans could offensive rebound, they actually would.

Yeah, so adding Tatum to this, and it's the perfect way to add him where it's like we'll give you Shireman's minutes, right?

We'll ease you in with like 20 minutes a game.

Yeah.

And I'm pretty sure he'll be an upgrade.

Although I do, I think Shireman's been okay too.

Anyway, this is, I need to say, just as a matter of like, discretion and responsibility.

Jason Tatum should not play this season.

Like just this team is really, this team is good.

But if he's ready to play, why wouldn't he play?

So here's the case.

Drew Smith got hurt on December 23rd.

Same exact injury.

Sure.

And was playing in time mid-October for the Heat.

It was a 10-month injury for them.

Maybe it was a nine-and-a-half-month injury.

Yeah.

Tatum even had the surgery faster than he did and has been a maniac working out.

I think it might be a 10-month injury now if you're ready.

10 months for Tatum would be all-star break.

I don't know.

If you're him, why wouldn't you play?

He, I'm sure, wants to play.

I'm not saying Jason Tatum isn't working for it or won't be physically ready, meeting the bare minimum threshold of what is required to return.

I'm just thinking about Jason Tatum and what he does on the floor.

And it's the explosiveness, even of just like his creating separation off the dribble.

It's his ability to switch and handle bigger players defensively.

And like the flexibility that he provides you and all of that workload that it puts on your lower body.

Like he's so important to the team.

And this is, this is all great as a one season amazing story.

Jalen Brown, leap you know all of these great developmental subplots.

Like this is great, but if he re injures something in the process of coming back too soon, that is just about the worst possible case for the Celtics season.

So maybe I'm erring on the side of caution, but like I think this team is good enough to just kind of let it ride and have fun with the lower stakes of not having Jason Tatum involved.

I think the luxury they have is they can wait until they feel like he's actually legitimately a hundred percent and then wait another month.

Yeah.

But I still think he should come back, because otherwise he's not playing a November, 19 months off doing anything.

I don't think is great.

And I would rather see him just play.

He's going to play basketball anyway.

He's going to want to test his leg.

He's going to want to go.

You might as well do it for 20 minutes a game.

It's an interesting conundrum, but it's certainly like they went.

I went there the first.

I watched that Washington game and I was like they should tank.

I can't believe some of the guys that are playing big minutes.

Like, what are we doing?

And now it's like, Whoa, what happens in February?

Especially when you look at the East, you don't like anybody.

Uh, the one move away contenders, number seven, the Lakers 17 and six.

Yeah.

What should their record be just in your opinion?

What, what do they feel like a 17 and 16 to you?

I mean, they feel like a 15 and eight type of team, 14 and nine.

Where, what would in your head, do they feel that good? they don't quite feel this good.

And like, I think that speaks to their season being a little surprising, right?

It's, it's really, it's really popping off.

It's Luca looking, I mean, just even better than you could have expected.

And some of the role guys like really hanging together, despite the fact that this is not a roster that has a lot of depth to it.

At the same time, like they've, they've earned it.

Like they've.

They've pulled off these wins and they clearly have something that is like a little bit greater than the sum of its parts happening there.

Maybe that's a credit to Luca or JJ or Austin or whoever you want to attribute it to.

But yeah, They don't quite feel 17-6, but who am I to argue with what they've done?

The thing I would worry about if I was them is just the Aiton turning into a pumpkin.

He's now hit the point where the Laker fans seem like they actually trust him a little bit.

And that's the most dangerous place to be in the world.

The most dangerous place to be with DeAndre Aiton.

So just be careful.

Minnesota 15-9.

Before we do Minnesota, I want to say one thing about Luka really quick.

Yeah.

I think we're broadly like all, you know, reveling in his season.

He's going to be an MVP candidate if he's eligible, all that stuff.

But, like when he is right, like this, every drive points and it's like it is so striking to see, just like the the methodical nature of it again at this, like at this volume, where I just think he's looked better this year than ever before somehow, despite the fact that he's already coming from a final standard, an MVP candidate standards like if the defense collapses, he's obviously way too good at finding the lob, finding the shooters.

If you get too physical, he is the best player in the world right now at drawing fouls.

And this was the part that blew me away.

If you don't foul him, Bill, he is shooting 94% around the basket.

94%.

Zero to three feet, right?

Zero to three feet.

So when all of those three things are true, I mean, that's how you become 17 and six, despite having a roster that may not suggest it.

It's how you become a somewhat improbable Western Conference contender, even in a really stacked group.

Yeah, I mean, the real reason you're 17-6 is your best two guys were averaging 63 points a game.

Yep, that'll do it.

I didn't even think that was possible.

Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I feel like this team's pretty close to being the other Western Finals team.

If something weird happened with Denver, just because of how good Luka's been.

And it seems like LeBron who I'm not sure wanted to be there at the beginning of the year because he didn't want to be on somebody else's team.

But now it's starting to see.

Oh actually, at this stage of my career, I'm probably the best possible.

This is the best possible use of me.

Everybody wins.

Like maybe I can figure this out and use my, my chess master brain.

So there's something here, but I still feel like there's a guy short.

I don't know what the trade is.

They have some expirings.

They have some picks.

So we'll see.

Minnesota number six, 15 and nine.

It's just not a team.

It's a team that, with the point guards they have and the amount of responsibility they have on Edwards' shoulders, I don't think is sustainable for three playoff rounds, much less four.

I agree with you.

I mean, they're also just... You need a point guard.

Yeah, they need a point guard.

They need that stability just a little more.

It's not that Ant hasn't done well enough or like, frankly, Dante DiVincenzo has been good.

He's just not their point guard.

And so...

If you lose multiple eight points in the last minute leads, odds are you need a ball handling thing.

And, you know, we can see this coming.

They are the best team in the league that like regularly just loses their entire mind.

And so like what you want to do with that is up to you.

But they can.

They can fight with the best of them and they can lose games that they have no business losing.

And the league is way better at pressing now, too.

So you can really get the ball back against them if you want to.

It's a great call.

Let's go get the ball.

Detroit at number five.

We talked about them.

19-5.

The only thing I wrote down here was Ivy?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you're still riding out that minutes limit right now, it seems like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But long term, I think this is their ceiling, whether it's 7-4s, 10-4s, 14-4s.

Can he be awesome for them?

Can he be a trade piece to turn into something bigger?

Whatever.

He's the swing...

Something for them, because I like their roster, but I want to see what happens with them.

New York number four, 16-7, plus 8.2 net rating.

Here's my question.

Is there any scenario where, if the Knicks were in the finals, they could beat one of the three teams in the West Houston, Denver or OKC?

Are they just at a class below those teams?

I don't see it.

I really don't.

I mean, Oklahoma City is frankly just way too good for anyone in the East.

And I think the particular problems that Denver's size presents and Houston's size presents.

You're just like begging for a Carl Anthony Towns, three fouls in eight minutes kind of game.

You know, it's like, it's just putting a lot on him to have to handle.

And then it's like, okay, now Mitchell Robinson, like you're, you're put to the front line.

OG and Anobi, you're having to guard Nicole Jokic all of a sudden.

Like it's just a lot to put on those guys in a way that I know their defense has been better lately.

It's also been better because they've had a little bit of a cupcake schedule and that's great in terms of getting everything right.

But then you have to go do it against some of the best teams in the Western Conference, and I don't see that in them just yet.

We agree.

Now, if I switch towns for AD, and AD is healthy, do you feel differently?

Does Anthony Davis and I say this with the greatest respect, Anthony Davis is an amazing player do literally anything against Nikola Jokic?

That is a matchup he can't win.

And so I think it helps against Houston for sure.

Maybe it even helps somewhat against OKC.

I, I think Denver weirdly, that doesn't really change anything at all for them.

I think I agree.

So sadly, the Knicks making the finals will be the win this year.

And then they need some sort of, some sort of luck.

The contenders, number three, Houston, 15 and six plus 10.8.

Secondly, number two, Denver, 17 and six plus 8.6.

Um, doing it without really important guys for the last couple weeks.

It's actually kind of crazy.

They have not had Gordon.

They have lost Christian Brown pretty early.

And during that time they've been, I think, the second best offense in the entire league, with both of those guys out.

The depth is just totally different this year.

So I think Denver is the only team that should chase OKC.

If they had a chance to turn Cam Johnson and multiple picks into Trey Murphy, I would.

So you don't think Houston's in that group?

That was my question.

Yeah.

If you're Houston, do you chase OKC?

And by the way, I have is the prohibitive.

Normally I have the favorite as number one.

I have the prohibitive favorite is number one.

OKC 23 and one with a net rating of almost 16.

Yeah.

Should anyone other than Denver chase OKC this year?

Do you just, is it a 2017 warrior situation where you're like, you know what?

We'll see you guys next year.

Good luck.

Good luck winning the title.

Is it even worth it?

I think Houston's already chasing like I mean trading for Kevin Durant means you are chasing this right now.

And the timer is going off.

There's other P there's an extra move that, I mean, they could go all in on the honest move.

They could go.

There's other things they could do and they could trade assets to try to improve this team.

I'm just not sure if that changes their destiny.

I also think as constructed, I could see them beating Denver.

I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility.

I agree with you.

Yes, the Thunder are going to be a tough matchup for anybody, but at least play it out.

Be as physical as they are.

They're just such an imposing team that maybe they really could take.

If you're meeting the Thunder late in the playoffs and they've already been worn down by having to play high-level physical competition, and then you have to meet the Rockets in the conference finals.

Maybe that's enough.

Maybe that's enough to kind of take the wind out of their sails a little bit.

Yeah, you beat... You're not going to beat OKC, but if you beat OKC, you're getting weird.

You're getting weird because you have Jokic, who's the weirdest star to go against in a playoff series, probably this century.

Or you're Houston, and you're just like, we just have incredible amounts of size.

It's so fun.

We're just going to try to overpower you and you can have all your shade points you want and press us and we'll turn the ball over 20 times.

But we're going to have 30 offensive rebounds today.

My favorite bit of Rockets weird is like, yes, they are a giant bruising team.

And then they have Reed Shepard and Aaron Holiday running around.

And I don't think I've seen them miss a three in a month.

It's like, it's right.

It's very like the gym bro with the little Pomeranian running around kind of vibe in Houston.

And I really enjoyed the physical comedy.

I got to say.

I'm so happy Reed Shepard's good.

We just need more weird, weird old school point guards like that.

Who could, who feel like they came out of, what was that show?

Willow Bay and Ahmad hosted inside stuff.

He seems like he's come out of an inside stuff reel from 1992.

It's like now watch Reed Shepard against the Charlotte Hornets.

Okay.

See, I asked this to Sal on Sunday because it's still like around five to one.

I just think OKC is breaking the 73 win record and I think they're actually going to care about it.

Yeah.

Do you see a scenario where they don't, because it's still like plus 500 and that, which means like it's a pretty big long shot by gambling odds, but I don't see how they lose nine times.

Do you?

They would have to.

I guess they would have to lose 10 times.

Yeah, it would have to be kind of an inexplicable lull, like where something is just like a little off in late January and all of a sudden they drop three or five games to teams that they wouldn't ordinarily do.

But I'm with you.

It's hard to imagine this team doing that.

We've seen them offshooting nights.

We've seen them do it basically with every combination of variables against every level of competition already and they just beat everybody the um in order to get to that point like they would have to have one of those unusual stretches.

The parlor game that we've been playing on group chat is when will the thunder lose their first game to an eastern conference team and will that like could they go the entire season blowing out every eastern conference opponent and i I think it's pretty possible they don't lose to any East team until February at this point.

I mean, if that, like it's craziness.

They remind me of when, when my daughter was playing club soccer and we'd have these tournaments.

You need to go away for the weekend and you'd look at the brackets and there was one team that was just winning like nine nothing eight nothing, 11 to one.

And you were like, Probably not beating that team.

This is what they're... They're like the freaking club soccer juggernaut just destroying everybody.

And even when it feels like the game's late you know close and gettable late then Shea just makes four shots in a row.

In no case he wins.

Best crunch time player in the league right now.

I don't really know what you do.

They have answers for everybody.

I do think Denver should chase them though.

And they probably have 15 games here with cam Johnson to figure out if they can trust him in a playoff series or not.

I mean, he looked, he looks on course at this point.

I think he's, he's really straightened himself out.

Sure.

I'd like to see another, how many, how many games is 15 months a month?

Oh, how many games in a month?

Yeah.

Probably reassessing around January 15th.

Like if this guy's in the corner, in a game seven in OKC with a minute left, is he making it?

I'm in that mode.

Because the Bruce Brown thing's been great.

It's just clear this is the team.

This is, for whatever reason, his soulmate team.

I like the Hardaway randomness.

Mm-hmm.

Jonas, we all knew that was going to work.

But, you know, they're just deeper and better.

And when they get everybody back, they're going to be a real problem.

But definitely the Cam Johnson piece is the one, because that's the, that's the shot that's going to be open for them.

And it's been open the whole season.

Yes.

Teams are like and I by the way, I love the way Murray's playing.

Oh, it's been incredible.

Murray's like a borderline in the combo for 13 NBA range.

If you're making teams like he's he's on the French.

What's your favorite show of the year?

The pit okay, that's your gold medalist.

Who's your silver medalist?

I think probably severance silver medalist.

I have to think about it.

But there's something about the like simplicity of the model of the pit where like, I know exactly what I'm walking into and yet I'm still a mess watching two people say goodbye to their elderly father.

It's like I know what's being done to me here and yet I am powerless to resist it.

Tap taft Wait, Taft.

What was that show called?

Task.

We just potted for an hour and a half straight.

The classic Taft biopic.

Whisked through Netflix mid-season.

We whiffed on that one.

It's all right.

Task.

Task has got to be top five.

Is that your number one?

I really like Beast in Me.

Beast in Me was really good.

I really enjoyed that.

I enjoyed Task.

I did not watch The Pit.

I've been saving it.

I do not like severance.

I'm sorry.

It's okay.

I think some people have zagged on it.

I'm one of them.

Anything else that was out there?

Those are the big ones, right?

And or... Studio was fine.

Your Friends and Neighbors was super fun from an Apple standpoint.

That was a show that existed, that's for sure.

It was a show that existed that we got some mileage out of.

Yeah.

But I think it's been an okay TV year.

It's been fun.

It's a little erratic.

Stranger Things was awesome for a lot of people.

I don't watch that show, but... Not for me.

My kids were out of their minds about it.

Can't wait for the last four.

But yeah, it's been solid.

Yeah.

Um, all right.

Rob Mahoney can be in the rewatchables finally.

I know a lot of rumors about this.

It's a four person rewatchables.

I won't say the movie, but, uh, yeah, doing a four person or you want to say the movie?

I mean, I think we really should have had a top five cast for, you know, just just for the sake of of the symbolism.

We're doing high fidelity.

We're recording it this week and it's going to be Monday's rewatchable.

So looking forward to that.

I will see you tomorrow.

Thanks for popping on Rob.

Of course.

Thanks Bill.

All right, that's it for the podcast.

Thanks to Rob and Gahal and Eduardo.

Don't forget about the rewatchables that went up yesterday.

We did Shampoo.

Don't forget about the new Game Over podcast with Max and Rich.

Don't forget about the new WizKid documentary that was coming out Thursday on HBO and HBO Max.

And I will be back on this feed with a nice big juicy pot for you on Thursday.

See you then.

I don't.

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[NBA Power Rankings and League Analysis with Rob Mahoney]-[An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney]

📋 Summary

Navigating the NBA Landscape: A Deep Dive into the Power Rankings

The Dregs and Rebuilding Strategies

Trade Speculation and "Hail Mary" Moves

The Rise of Young Talent and All-NBA Debates

The Celtics' System and the "One Comeback Away" Contender

League-Wide Trends and Coaching Excellence

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[NBA Power Rankings and League Analysis with Rob Mahoney]-[An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney]

📋 Summary

Navigating the NBA Landscape: A Deep Dive into the Power Rankings

The Dregs and Rebuilding Strategies

Trade Speculation and "Hail Mary" Moves

The Rise of Young Talent and All-NBA Debates

The Celtics' System and the "One Comeback Away" Contender

League-Wide Trends and Coaching Excellence

Deep Learning with ListenLeap

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

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