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Lemonada.
Hello, and welcome to More Happier, a podcast where we get happier.
It's a weekend, some weekend listening.
Hey, Elizabeth.
Hey, Gretchen.
Today, as part of the Move 26 in 26 challenge, we are sharing a special listen-along episode, something you can enjoy while you're getting in your 26 minutes of movement.
It features Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson talking about why movement matters, and then sharing a few podcast clips they thought would be good company while you're on the move.
I love how these clips show the many different ways that movement fits into real life.
Same.
So let's get started.
Here's Craig and Michelle.
Hey, happier listeners, Craig Robinson and Michelle Obama here.
We're so excited to be working with our podcast network, Higher Ground, and our friend Gretchen Rubin on her Move 26 campaign, which is all about prioritizing movement for 26 minutes a day, every day this year.
That's right.
Now you all know that I am a strong believer in the importance of getting our bodies moving every day.
You might remember my Let's Move initiative when we were in the White House, encouraging kids to get their daily exercise and to build those healthy habits from a very young age.
And movement has been a big part of my life, from tennis to hiking to hitting the gym or spin class.
I know I'm at my best when I'm moving every day just a little bit.
Now, of course, movement looks different for everyone.
So my advice is to start where you are and work toward a specific goal.
Let's say, if you want to improve your flexibility, Start with doing just a few exercises, maybe on your living room floor.
If you want to strengthen your lungs, start with a light jog and build from there.
But here's the key.
Don't focus on what your body looks like.
Focus on how it feels.
Your heart health, your mental health, your strength, and your confidence.
Those are the factors that contribute to a healthy lifestyle.
And experts tell us they're critical for our happiness and well-being too.
And if you're looking for help along your health journey, our production company Higher Ground has a lot of shows that can help you figure it all out.
On our podcast IMO, Craig and I tackle real questions from folks just like you, sharing our candid perspectives on things like wellness and relationships and the world around us.
Or you can check out The Second Opinion with our dear friend, Dr. Sharon.
Each week, Sharon shares her deep expertise in women's health alongside well-known guests, experts and women to tackle all things menopause.
We're going to share a few clips from these shows, but here's a tip before we do.
Listening to podcasts pairs great with movement.
True.
So put your earbuds in and take a walk or clean up the house or hop on your bike.
Hopefully, these shows will inspire your Move 26 plan and lead you toward an even happier, healthier life.
So let's get moving.
Okay, so the first clip Craig and Michelle picked is from IMO, their podcast.
Yeah, and it's with Dawn Staley, who's just such a force.
She's a Hall of Fame basketball player, Olympic gold medalist and a longtime coach at the University of South Carolina.
Dawn talks about growing up in North Philadelphia before the WNBA even existed and what it was like to love a sport without being able to picture where it could lead.
And how different things feel now.
Exactly.
Here's Dawn with Craig and Michelle.
I'm picturing Little Dawn on the basketball courts playing with all these boys.
Right.
And you know I mean it is rare for somebody to and it's a blessing to find out early in life what you love and then be able to do it for the rest of your life and make a career out of it.
It is amazing.
A blessing.
I would love to hear more about that.
Well, I would say this.
When I was growing up, for me, it was genderless.
I was just playing.
I didn't know I was a girl until they told me, go put a skirt on and go.
I didn't realize that that's what it was.
But I didn't care.
They didn't know who my mother was.
My mother's got the strength of 10 men and thick skin.
So the name calling really didn't bother me.
After a while, at first it does.
It's like, I'm one of five.
I'm the youngest of five.
Say something that'll make me cry.
Right?
And then you gain the respect of the guys.
And then the relationship goes to...
You're one of us.
But now with Title IX and girls, young girls, because I was a tomboy.
You know, growing up as younger with a brother, I did same thing.
I was doing everything they were doing.
They were boxing.
I was boxing.
We're playing piggy softball.
I was out there.
I was running track.
I was going to beat all of them.
But I'm, you know, almost 10 years older than you.
And the opportunities, just like for you, were even It wasn't there for a girl who was a jock to to be in organized sports.
I spent a lot of time on the sidelines watching him play in leagues and going to his games, because I didn't see girls doing any of that.
And now that there are more opportunities for girls, I guess my question is do you see the difference in female athletes who grew up in all-girls sports?
I mean, they've had it, they've been exposed to it, but because they had the opportunities, they didn't get the chance to play with the boys.
Do you see differences now?
I do.
I just see there's more opportunity for girls.
Like, if I look at my team... probably over just my entire career coaching, right?
They've only known it to be a WNBA.
Yep.
Only known.
They were born.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
So that's the carrot that's been dangled in front of them for all of their lives.
So they play now.
They participate.
They play AAU.
They see a future.
They see a future in it, like in a future here in the States.
Yeah.
I'm always curious, and I've met... number of wonderful WNBA college female athletes in basketball.
And I don't think people really understand how the path is so different.
You know, the fact that you know paid is so unequal that the life of a professional WNBA player is so different.
Can you tell us, tell our listeners, a little bit about what it was like for you as a professional player?
How did you make ends meet?
Was that life difficult?
It was.
I will say this.
When I graduated from college, graduated from UVA in 1992, my male counterpart was Shaquille O'Neal.
Right?
Yeah.
Shaquille.
Yeah, we know that dude.
Yeah.
$80 million contract.
Me.
Me.
I'm sitting at home.
And that mother that cleaned houses, cleaned the house for a man that owned a retail store.
So I had to ask my mother.
I'm a college graduate.
To use her plug, right?
To get me a job at his store.
And I did retail for about three weeks.
And then I'm like, this isn't for me.
This isn't for me.
Once I got that check, that check was like $227.
And I'm like, for all that?
All of that.
For three weeks, right?
So I was waiting to go overseas to play because...
At my height, as a guard, they don't want guards.
They want bigs.
So I went over to Segovia, Spain in October of 1992.
Played for $35,000, which was decent for me.
I didn't have a job.
It was more than the retail store.
Way more.
So I did that.
And then 1990, I was playing for...
Being an Olympian, because one of my lifelong dreams was to be an Olympian.
Because I only saw women play on television.
Two times national championship and gold medal.
And that's what I wanted.
So I had to go overseas to play, to get more international experience so I can be ready the next time I try out for an Olympic Games, which was 94.
Ended up making the 96 team and then, from our year of practicing together in preparation for the 96 games, we knew halfway through that there was going to be a WNBA.
So we were like the guinea pigs to see if women's basketball could stand the test of time during that year.
And then, not only did the WNBA was birthed, so was another league, the ABL.
So two women's professional leagues started um in 96 and 97.
So from, from 92 to 97, it was a struggle.
Once I started in the WNBA, um, I was coaching at Temple University at the same time.
So I could make ends meet because I had a second job.
The WNBA job was my second job, but you had to have two jobs.
I mean, it's not enough for you to just take the paycheck and live year round.
12 months, yeah.
So you had to have supplemental income.
Mm-hmm.
So are they going to compensate players for that loss of income?
Are salaries keeping up with this new requirement?
Well, I think the salaries now and I don't it is probably anywhere from 75000 to maybe 250000, compared to an NBA player.
Oh, there's no comparison.
Yeah.
I just want the number.
I want to say the numbers out loud so that you know, because the average NBA player is making millions if they don't even get playing time right.
Yes.
And I will say this in comparison to whether, like if we looked at the NBA in its 28th or 29th year, I think we're okay.
I think we're okay.
It's on par.
But we want to see the near future of WNBA players being able to get a Supermax contract like a.
I know exactly what you're saying.
And it makes me think.
So, you know, like the NBA has been around for years, and now the WNBA has been around for years not as many, but it's been around for years.
What's made it so popular now?
Well, I think it's been popular.
I think you have players like a Kaitlyn Clark.
She brings a lot of eyeballs to our sport.
A lot of them.
And so much...
So much so that now you're seeing the rest of the league and how good and talented our women are that represent the WNBA.
We played Kaitlyn Clark's Iowa team on national television in 2024.
The highest ever.
I think it tapped out at 24 million.
Most watched game ever.
And I know a lot of people were tuned in to see Kaitlyn.
But what they saw. was a South Carolina team that was super talented, that was on an undefeated run.
And I know they walked into something they didn't really know what was about to happen.
So I think it's cool that the new eyeballs are coming to our sport and they're seeing how very talented our players are.
And Is it somewhat controversy?
Yeah.
But what sport is it?
I like the fact that we do have some controversy.
It's a sport.
I've always said that I watch sports not just for the reality of it, but I watch sports to root against the people who I don't like.
And if there's no drama, there's no fun.
And I love the fact that the WNBA has some drama now.
And I think I've always said that it needed more drama.
But I was.
I was getting to the fact that it feels like to me, college basketball has made the WNBA more popular.
Now, time for a quick break.
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One thing that really stuck with me from Dawn's story is you know, movement isn't just for one kind of person.
It's for everybody can find a way to do it.
Yeah, but even if you want to move more, sometimes it can be hard.
Circumstances can definitely get in the way.
Yes.
Yes, indeed.
And so that's why the next clip goes in a different direction.
Yeah, so this one is from The Second Opinion with Dr. Sharon.
She talks with a psychiatrist and researcher, Dr Judith Joseph, about feeling capable on the outside but still worn down, and how habits like constant phone use affect our energy.
Yeah.
She also shares a framework for rebuilding energy called the five V's.
Validation, venting, values, vitals, and vision.
And you know me, I love any framework.
So let's listen.
When we're on screens all the time.
That is robbing us of living in a world that is three-dimensional, that allows us to stimulate all of our senses.
Not just the sensory stimulation from seeing things and hearing things, but from feeling smelling touching, being in the world.
And there was a recent study just out of one of the University of Texas universities that they took people out for two weeks away from their smart devices.
So they still had the capacity to use their phone and stay connected, so calling and texting and so forth.
But the smartphone capacity was removed.
So they weren't allowed to go online and constantly be doom scrolling all day or being on social media.
And what they found was that just that two weeks of limiting exposure was almost like an antidepressant effect in terms of the metrics they used to measure joy and happiness.
And let me just say in my business back in the day I'm going to sound like an old person, but I delivered babies.
So I had to be accessible at all times.
But there was a time before cell phones.
And I can tell you this that, even having you know you had a pager, the answering service would call you.
You get a number.
You had to call the answering service.
You had to pull off the road.
Call the phone.
I never missed a delivery.
And we now think that if we don't have our phone, something horrible is going to happen in the hour that I left my phone at home.
And we've got to get out of that sort of mindset.
It's really not that deep.
But before I don't want to leave without making sure that we get through those other five Vs.
So we've gone through validation venting, and what are the other three Vs?
Yeah well, I think the phone issue brings us right into values, because what you were saying reminded me of how, when I was a child, when we wanted to look something up, we'd have to go to the library, pull out the encyclopedia, use multiple books, use critical thinking.
And now that joy of curiosity and learning is being robbed because we can just go to Google.
Yeah.
And that information may not even be correct sometimes, right?
So it's robbed us of that other critical thinking, part of our ability to be human beings who are fully formed right.
So again, leaving all these points of joy on the table because the modern world is so different.
But that brings us into the values.
So for my clients, what I'll do is I'll take them back to a time in their past and try to be like a little archaeologist and dig up those moments when they actually did feel that fullness.
And we'll use things like pictures, we'll use things like timelines, but eventually we find a point where they actually became excited again.
And so I'll give an example of A client who he didn't remember what it was like to be full and fed and tapped into value.
So we had to go back to childhood.
And he realized that before his parents got divorced, they would go camping all the time.
But now he's this very important businessman in a big city.
No access to nature, so we had to slowly reintroduce nature to him.
Started off with getting a plant in the office, then looking at photos of nature, then taking a walk through the Central Park and then planning that hike.
But slowly he started to connect with nature again.
But he didn't remember that part because it was buried in that hidden trauma.
So, when you think about your values, think about things that are priceless to, not things with the price tags, right.
It's a nuance.
So for me, learning because curiosity made me feel so accomplished internally, versus being extrinsically motivated by the good grades or the fear of failure.
Now, the first step to all of this is really recognizing that high functioning depression exists.
And people have to realize that it exists, so they know that there is help and there is a solution for it.
But sometimes people are a little resistant to coming to that.
So what would you suggest for friends or family members if you see that someone around you, a loved one or is experiencing what you think is high-functioning depression because they've read your book and now they know all about it?
What would you suggest that they do?
How would you talk to someone that you love or someone that you care about and you see wow, this sounds very familiar to me.
What advice would you give them?
Well, you can't control others, but what you can do is you can control yourself.
And I know it's not a satisfying response for many people, but the reality is that you can't.
You can't change people.
But what you can do is you can model the behaviors that you wished knowing that there's someone in your life who is accustomed to giving, maybe they have a little self-worth, unprocessed trauma.
They just don't feel worthy enough to slow down.
You may have to start saying, you know what?
It's okay.
You don't have to do this for me.
You may have to show them that, listen, I'm here for you.
Even if you don't do anything, you're giving them permission to sit still.
And they may look at you like, well, why?
But just say, listen, I
I'm just here for you.
I just want you to be able to rest and I want you to be able to enjoy your life.
You don't have to show up all the time.
You also may have to meet their basic needs.
Many of my clients with high function depression, they are not meeting their basic needs.
Always take care of yourself first because it is not easy being around someone who can't slow down.
It is contagious, but you may have to model the behaviors that you wish to see in that individual.
Dr Judith, before we leave I want to make sure that we get to those other three Vs in the five Vs for high function depression.
Can you go over those quickly for me?
Yeah.
So we talked about tapping into the values and the basic needs brings us right into vitals.
Many times they're not taking care of their basic needs.
So vitals are focusing on getting good sleep, letting them rest, eating foods that are not processed, foods that are healthy for your brain, getting good movement.
Vitals are also modern.
Vitals like a healthy relationship with technology, not being exposed to too much of that, a work-life balance and the relationships that you're in.
Relationships are the number one predictor of your longevity.
So these are all the vital signs I ask you to really pay attention to.
And now we're going to take a short break.
Gretch.
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OK listeners, if you're still moving.
Hopefully this last clip gives you the motivation to finish your 26 minutes.
And this one brings us back to Craig and Michelle on IMO.
They are talking with Candice Parker, a WNBA legend, who I have spotted at a restaurant in LA Gretch.
Celebrity sighting.
And Craig starts by asking her about her new book, The Can Do Mindset.
I think the title says it all.
Here's a clip.
There was a point in the book when you talked about your coaches at your school.
Believed in your abilities before you did.
They could see how good you were going to be.
Talk about how your development went, right?
From your own mindset, because you were really good, but you didn't know how good you were.
I can still hear Coach Summitt, I can still hear her say, you have never arrived.
And that is something that I feel like was a part of my upbringing without the correct verbiage from my parents.
In seventh grade my coach sat me down and was like I think you can be the best player in the state.
In seventh grade?
And I was like, the state?
Yeah.
Just the state?
Yeah.
And I was humble in the present, but I was motivated to be the best in the future.
And when I arrived at Tennessee, I went to Tennessee to be a big fish in a big pond.
I didn't take the time to think, whoa, I'm good at basketball or I'm not good at basketball or whatever.
It was just to try to be one of the best to play there and to win and focus on, you know my left hand, getting my left hand hooked.
You know my left hook better or being able to.
You know dribble the basketball and shoot and pass at six foot four.
I was motivated so many times in my career by the can'ts.
Yeah.
That when they turned to cans, I had to find something else, you know, to be motivated by.
And I was grateful that my dad knew what buttons to push as a coach and Coach Summit.
Boy, she knew what buttons to push.
If she told me I couldn't guard somebody, or she told me that I couldn't do this, I was going to do it.
And I'm grateful for the mentors and the coaches that I've had, that understand how somebody ticks, because it really is the mindset in anything you do.
Getting people motivated or getting you in the right frame of mind to accomplish the things you want to accomplish.
And I never really stopped and thought like, okay, this is where I'm at.
It was more so like I kept moving the goalposts.
And in the book I talk about how that can be a positive.
But moving the goalposts also doesn't allow you to really appreciate what you have accomplished in the moment.
I mean, my 16 years in the WNBA flew by.
Yeah.
The WNBA championship, I was like, the next day, okay, I love that feeling.
Let's do it again.
So it's also a balance of realizing the present and appreciating it.
You go from college to the pros.
It goes from being sort of a family to transactional relationships.
Yeah.
It's a business.
You learned that real quick.
So what was that transition like?
Because it had to be so diametrically opposed to the way you were brought up in your family, the way you were nurtured at Tennessee and now you're a pro.
And talk about the NBA as well as having to go overseas playing.
2008 was a big year for both of us.
My transition into the NBA WNBA um.
My transition into the WNBA was one that was like this one night,
It was crazy.
We're hanging, we're hanging the banner.
We're cutting down nets.
We're, you know, champagne.
I was 20, 21.
So I, I, I could drink.
The next afternoon at 2.30, I got drafted into the WNBA by Los Angeles.
It was the Olympic year.
So we won the national championship.
Got drafted, training camp started two weeks later.
Went straight into training camp.
Didn't even get to move out of my apartment.
You know, you got to sign a shoe deal.
You got to, you know, endorsement, sign an agent, all those things, financial advisor.
Moved out to LA, which is still home today, which I'm grateful for.
Olympic break, so 2008, went to the Olympics.
I was just exhausted.
You know, it's one of those things where this is everything I have ever dreamed of and more.
And I just wanted to be in bed.
I just wanted to go to sleep.
I wanted to take a nap.
And that's the hardest thing is this amazing year.
I look back and I'm like, all I can remember is being tired.
And I was really tired.
I came back from the Olympics and came back with more than a gold medal.
I was pregnant with my daughter when I came back.
And then immediately I went into what is everybody going to think?
You know, how is this going to impact my career?
I won Rookie of the Year and MVP that year.
And I was seven, eight weeks pregnant with my daughter.
I just can't believe that.
And I think it's the fear that every mother that has gone through this feels.
Where you have invested so much time into your career and your craft.
And it's the worry of...
This is everything I've ever wanted.
I always wanted to be a mom.
But how is this going to fit into what I've worked so hard to accomplish?
There were so many people that were in my ear, close friends and family that were like is this a great time for you to?
Maybe we should think about other options.
And I always wanted to be a mom.
And again, I leaned on Coach Summitt. she was able to do it.
She was able to be one of the best ever and still have a child and still balance both.
Companies want you once you have the kid to tell the story, but they don't want you when you're pregnant.
As an athlete, you kind of are valuable to be able to run and jump and do all those things.
And so immediately when I was...
When I, you know, announced that I was pregnant, I remember telling people and then immediately being like but I'm going to come back July 5th.
You know, it was almost like me cushioning the blow a little bit.
And I hate that looking back.
You know, I thought strength was coming back in 50, 56 days after having my daughter.
Mm-hmm.
But then if that strength and weakness is taking six weeks of maternity leave.
Yeah, letting your body heal fully.
Putting your family in those moments first.
And so it was a lot in 2008, the transition into the WNBA and motherhood.
I mean, I think a lot is an understatement.
You know, I mean, I really do think.
And you're how old? you know, while all this is going on.
And now that you're not even 40 yet and you think you're old.
Now, you realize how young you were, right?
I mean, you have a daughter that's getting close to that age, right?
16 years old.
I mean the amount of maturity.
You know the composure that it took for you to manage through all of that.
So that's today's Move 26 Listen Along episode.
If listening made it easier to keep moving, that's a powerful habit at work.
Pairing something you enjoy with something you want to do more consistently is one of the simplest and most popular ways to stick to an important habit.
You can find more information about Move 26 and 26, along with links to the Higher Ground podcast you heard today in the episode description.
So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?
Yes, I am feeling happier and ready to get moving, Gretch.
Thanks, Chuck.
Bye, Gretch.
Bye, Elizabeth.
The best time to start moving was 26 years ago.
The second best time is now.
From the Onward Project.
Hi Gretchen, Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here.
We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.
You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes.
What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?
Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you.
Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective.
So consider questions like this.
What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me?
Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me?
If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose?
And here's a question.
Would I like to have more time in solitude restorative solitude or would I like to have more time with friends?
You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier.
With greater self-knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values.
In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition.
For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you get podcasts.
You can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents, and so many more.
