Today I have a real, real treat for you.
My mother. My mommy. Yeah, she's my mommy.
She's not really my mother. She's my mommy.
You know what I mean? My mom and I have a very special relationship.
In my older age, I'd argue we have a really special friendship. she's definitely one of the girls.
Do with that what you will. She's one of the girls.
And today we're just going to hang out. It's a mother-daughter date.
And you get to listen in on it. And we both love to overshare, so it's going to be totally fun.
Here is my mommy, Sophia Chamberlain. The one and the only.
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Things people love. In what ways do you think I'm my mother's daughter?
Oh my gosh. Like there's just a list of... that goes on.
Like you're, A workaholic? I feel like I don't give off that vibe.
I feel like I give off like slacker energy.
Oh God, I don't think so. Recently, you've been getting out more, which I think is great.
But before that, though... I mean, it was all about just like, oh, I have to do this, this, this.
You're definitely like that too though. I mean, that's what I'm saying.
Like, you know, it's, you wouldn't, just like let loose and go have fun.
I was too scared. I think I was like scared that I would like lose it.
If I was like too much like that. When you were younger, did you do that too?
Were you like a workaholic with school or with work?
Or were you like... No, I'm going to go out and be with cute boys.
I think any opportunity that I had, like if friends were going out.
It was like, where are we going on Thursday night?
Like, we had the dance clubs to go to and...
We had our routine and stuff. So any chance I got, I would definitely go out. whether it was a party or you know clubbing or whatever but that's interesting because you became a workaholic later in your life.
Now you are the most, like that is like you to a T. I thrive on accomplishing. stuff like I thrive on getting shit done So it's not that it makes you like it's not that you love it, but rather that it feeds you.
It depends also what kind of work. for work work, like, it's an integrity thing.
You know what I mean? Like I feel like I have to accomplish a lot And get it off my plate and do it to perfection so that... my integrity stays intact.
Well, I am your mother's daughter in this way.
Right? But it's like so... Not like toxic, but...
We're definitely both such perfectionists about...
I mean, I wouldn't say just our work life, but I think it's very, very apparent and present there.
But just in general, I feel like we're both so, things have to be, Right.
Like things have to really be done right.
Like no cutting corners. Right. It has to be done right.
Because otherwise you sit and think about it.
You think like, oh, we could have done this better.
We could have... Or you see it physically, see something that's not done.
And then it's, you know, little the details, right?
Like you're not as detailed as I am. Like you'll. you're more accepting of things not being perfect.
Like you almost... Because... you growing up with me, like, wanting things to be so... rigidly you know tidy and straight and this and that you kind of like want to mess things up like you want it You want to kind of have things a little beat up or a little crooked or a little wonky.
Whereas I'm constantly, you know, like And it's a control thing.
And that's another thing that we have control issues.
Well, we definitely do another way on my mother's honor.
Growing up with my mom was like growing up in an army base. every single household chore was bootcamp doing the dishes bootcamp.
Like literally my mom would like, inspect the fork after I washed it and she'd be like, you didn't use fucking hot water.
No, you didn't. You didn't use hot water.
Did you even use dish soap? Yeah. Did you know that you have to refill the sponge with the soap?
Okay, obviously you don't. When you look at me, what do you think I get the most fixated on?
I think it's like controlling what's going to happen.
I love to have a plan. Yeah. It's terrible.
I'm like so bad. Like it's from like kind of random daily tasks.
Everything has to be timed out on my Google calendar to like...
I need to know who's going to be my maid of honor in my wedding.
I need to know who I'm going to marry. I need to know how many kids I'm going to have.
I am obsessed with... That too, like having that, I need to know where I'm gonna live.
Like I'm obsessed with planning the future as well.
I think that's an age thing too, though.
Were you like that? I mean, I feel like it's kind of a goal, like a life goal or something.
And you want to get... We're very impatient.
That's the other thing. So we want to get... to it as soon as possible because you have it all planned out.
You know what has to happen. So you just, you're in a big hurry to get there.
And I was very much like that. But on a daily basis, I may not be like, anxious about my future like you are, because I feel like I've kind of arrived.
You have your career, you have a child who's a nightmare and that's so much so distracting.
And then you have... Filled with a lot to do on a daily basis.
In what ways... Are we different? Well, like I said, I think you rebelled against my... precision on things and so you kind of like when things are a little more knocked around, beat up, wonky, crooked. you know, a little messy, like, you know, you kind of rebel against that.
It's not like your house is dirty or unorganized.
It's more like... You might be attracted to like a little vintage piece of artwork or something.
And it'll be maybe chipped up and knocked around and not... And I'd be like, oh, no, but it's got chips and not... you know, dense in it.
And you're like, but that's what I like about it.
And I like things to be like more, you know, I like... you know, vintage things or antiques.
But I like them when they're... But you want to be refurbished.
I like them to be more, like, in better shape.
And you are... totally good with something just like falling apart.
I know. Because it looks cool. Okay. So that's one way we're different.
Do you think we're different socially? oh yeah why because i'm not social I was when I was your age.
But you're definitely outgoing. But I don't... I get bored at, like, you know... social events where it's maybe like i have trouble hearing people talk you know like i can't If there's a lot of people talking, so it's hard to have a conversation.
So I feel kind of like I start to like close up because I.
I can't understand what anyone's saying.
And then I'm like, I just, and I'm just like, just shaking my head and I'm just like, you know, and so I feel that's awkward to me.
But that's also such an interesting perspective because it's so true that in most social situations, a party, a club, a bar.
It's fucking loud. It is. It's just loud and it's not fun.
To talk. To talk. It actually is awful. Like I, you know, when I go out And as we know, I've been doing it a lot because I call my mom when I'm on the way home and it's like, 2 in the morning, 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning.
It's been 6 in the morning. And I'm driving home because I don't drink really.
Well, yeah, you get the tea. How good is the tea?
It's awesome. It's so good so far. This is totally a detour.
Now we're going in a completely different direction.
Share the best tea I've ever given you. Well, what was a story that I got in the car and I called you and I told you about where you're like, this is the juiciest shit yet.
It's usually like when you've seen somebody that you haven't seen in a long time or you met somebody...
For the first time and, you know, you just like really hit it off and it would be like an unexpected person.
Boy drama. Yeah, boy drama is always the best, right?
Like, that's like, oh, man, like... Who would have thought that would have happened or, you know, that they would have said that or, you know.
Yeah. It usually has to do with boys. It's usually like where you've seen you've been out and about and you've seen seen someone and then you see you know Yeah, that was kind of the best one.
Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? In L.A., I think it's like you're always going to see people out that you have like. whether it's an old friend or an ex or whoever.
And it's like... I think those are the best stories for you probably because you know these people.
You've met these people. And then now it's like interesting to see.
But that is the problem. Or sometimes, you know, like, I'll have been a fan of... Maybe it's a music artist or... you know, an actress or a model or something like that and you've become friends with them and then...
You come home and then you tell me stories about like an evening out. where you've run into them and then the conversations you've had or whatever.
And I'm like so riveted. Because it's so fun.
It's like someone that you maybe... you know watch them on TV when you were little and so I've watched these people grow up to be you know successful, whatever artists, musicians, whatever they are.
And, So it's just kind of fun to hear the local stuff that happens when you're out and you run into these people.
What they're really like. what they're really like or like, you know, whatever.
It's just so fun. I honestly feel like I go out and be social for the debrief after with you. my friends.
It's like, that's what it's about. I kind of like wake up automatically at like 2 a.m. and just go...
And I like, Oh, she's still out. Okay. Well maybe she'll.
And then like if I think you're in an odd place, sometimes like – the location will seem a little odd and I'll check in and just say, You good.
Just to make sure you're good, but also to let you know that I'm awake.
So then as soon as you get in the car, you can call me.
Yes. Yes. Speaking of you tracking me on my phone.
Well, you're an anxious parent. Yes. Why don't you sort of dig into how you manage... being a deeply anxious person and having a child.
Well, I mean, I... didn't even want to have a child because I knew that I would be such an anxious parent.
Um, So it was almost like, oh my gosh, I am not the kind of person that should be having kids because I'm going to be –
I'm going to be worried about the baby inside my tummy, worried about the... the baby coming out okay, I'm going to be worried about everything, right?
And so, you know, and then... the experience I went through, which was for the most part, you know, other than being like, for the first six months or whatever, everything was fine.
Except for, you know, you... coming out with an emergency C-section.
That was like, you had to come out that way.
That's okay. I know it's so reflective of my personality with you.
Oh my gosh. Afterwards, you know, go to nurse and you'd constantly fall asleep.
And then the nurses would come in and they would be like, jamming your face you know like to nurse and then you'd be arching your back like no And then I was like, oh man, we are in for it.
This girl is like... Is going to be a force to be reckoned with.
And here you are. Thank you so much. So the worry just went on and on and on. you were anxious and you definitely needed to know where I was at all times and you definitely were like, you know, you had a leash on A metaphorical leash on, because some parents actually do the little leash on the kids.
If you had a metaphorical leash on me, it wasn't like I was a complete loose cannon.
But you did kind of let me be a loose cannon.
I mean, when I look back, it's like... holy shit, like, you know, after school, I'd go to the, you know, the youth center.
Right. These kids and I would just be running around town doing whatever, and... we were like on our own, you know?
And when I got a little older and I started partying and I was experimenting with drinking and stuff like that. you and my dad both were like, it's okay, just keep us in the loop.
And I think that that's Exactly the way to do it because I think it prevented me from ever... rebelling in that way and wanting to overdo it which I think was phenomenal but it's like how did you let me go then you you kind of let me go even though you're so anxious First of all, I trusted you.
I didn't feel like you were going to... make a bad decision.
Everybody makes bad choices, right? That's how we learn.
But I didn't have the capability of tracking you until you were a little bit older.
Until you had your first iPhone, basically, because I feel like the other ones, we didn't do that.
Yeah. And it's because my intentions or my thoughts about... tracking you or keeping an eye on you.
It wasn't about what you were doing or who you were hanging out with.
It was just more about being able to rescue you if you were in a bad situation.
Yeah. It's about knowing where you were so that... if there was an earthquake, then I could just come pick you up.
So that's where you were more anxious about rather than what I was actually doing.
No, I was never worried about what you were doing.
It was never about... controlling what you were doing, who you were hanging out with.
It was about keeping you... Just knowing that I could... come and save you somehow because you didn't like it at first.
No, I mean, I think it's invasive. But then once I said, hey, you know, but if you're in a situation... and you can't call me or something, then I can literally drive to wherever you are and and I can pick you and your friends up and, and, get you guys out of a bad situation or maybe a situation you don't want to be in, which happened.
It happened. where you guys would be in a house party and the cops would come.
And you guys would be hiding in the bushes.
So scary. And you're like texting me and you don't even know where you are.
There was no address because... And you don't even know what street.
And I literally could... I would just... jump in the car and I would find you that way.
I know. It was like, I literally, the amount of times... we got the cops got called on us like I wonder if that's normal like did you have the cops called on parties when you were a kid oh yeah Okay.
But we never, you know, we'd all get word and then everybody would split and hide until they drove over. way and then you would you know I remember like the The Uber account, it's like my Uber account, and you guys would go and then you guys would split the Uber or whatever.
My rating went to shit when you guys would go to, what was it, Shoreline?
Well Shoreline for context was this like it was this music venue and Not super close to where I lived, but, you know, like 40 minutes to an hour.
And it was where there was... $50 country concerts, country shows, and all the... all the high schoolers would go and get super drunk and just like make out with each other.
And it was really weird. In retrospect, it was so good for you to have that independence because I feel like completely.
I mean even though you might have been drinking and making out with boys and doing all these things that if the parents really knew, they would be like, oh, that's not allowed.
Well, that's the thing. I do think, like, You can't rob your child of like, experimentation like you can't like but within like you know but you there's a responsible way to do it and I think you I think I mean, if you were messing around with, like, scary drugs and stuff or... like hooking up with 40-year-old men, I'd be like, absolutely not.
You know what I mean? But you guys were all... with each other.
You guys had been around each other since you were like in fourth grade or fifth grade or even younger.
Some of you... even knew each other as toddlers.
So it was like I didn't feel like you were doing anything abnormal at all. you know but to an extent you have to let your kids touch the stove to know that it's hot right while keeping the leash on those still too like it's like You were in control of the situation enough where it's like I...
And you also educated me enough to a point where you were like, she's not... It's...
She's not going to get hurt. She's not taking anything to a level where...
She's fine. Yeah. I didn't feel like any of it was dangerous.
If I did, I probably would have said no.
No, but I never felt, I felt like you were smart.
You were also like, nervous and worried.
So you weren't going to be like, you know...
Totally cool and badass. I was like so scared of everything.
You've never been reckless. And that's a thing.
That's a difference. I've never snuck out.
I feel like I'm the only kid that never...
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Please fuse responsibly. Do you think my personality was set when I was born, or do you think that you and my dad...
Yeah, like, do you believe... This is actually... Let's take me out of the equation.
Do you believe that... personality is innate.
Or do you think personality is developed through parenting or do you think it's a combination of both?
I think it's a combination of both, but you came out a rebel, 100%.
And I saw that from the get-go. From the very... I didn't understand it the way I do now.
Like, I think... different people wrote books on personality types and there was like personality quizzes and stuff and so One of the ones I really liked narrows in on four different personality types or tendencies that we have.
I remember it because it was right around the time you started high school.
And that's when I figured out your personality type my personality type.
It's very simple. What's your personality type and what's mine?
So the four tendencies, they call them, is... the upholder, the questioner, the rebel, and the obliger.
And you're pretty much a rebel through and through like there's overlap obviously on every single one But for me, I am 100% one of those people who will take care of everyone else.
You're the obliger? Yeah, before I take care of myself, right?
Getting better, hopefully, about that, but... you have no accountability.
So you're basically held accountable by outside forces or outside... people, right?
So when it comes to work, just work yourself to death and to the bone and dig yourself in a hole because you are going to you know, do what other people are asking you to do because you want to you don't want to let anybody down.
You, you're going to rebel against what everyone is asking. because it's deeply rooted in you.
There isn't even any explaining it. It just is what it is, right?
But you have a little bit of other stuff, and so do I. For sure.
Yeah. I do feel like I definitely have pieces of all of those, though, when I think about it.
Definitely, I am... but I also think I can be a people pleaser and just be like, I will do anything. anything for everybody.
And then I also think I can prioritize myself and be really selfish.
But I think some of that though comes from The parenting styles, you know, like where you're saying, did I come out that way or did because I feel like.
There's things that I see you do that come from... situations that happened when you were younger where I might have parented a little harshly or – we've talked about this before – you know, reactive parenting has caused I don't want to say issues, but you kind of have PTSD maybe.
I don't know what it is. You know what I'm saying?
Like very self-aware for you as a mom to say, I did something that might've fucked you up.
Yeah, but it's... That's a very rare thing.
Special. Really? Because I don't know. I feel like all parents feel guilty about something.
Because here's the thing. It's like, The thing is, every parent is going to fuck up.
Okay. And it's about being able to apologize.
Like Lord knows when I'm a parent, God, I don't know what I'm going to do wrong, but I will do something wrong.
You know what I mean? Like, it's just how it is.
But we all do because we you just you're learning as you're going kind of it's not like, you know.
I don't think any of us are prepared or know.
I don't care how many classes you take. I did all that stuff and it didn't matter.
You came out so opposite of me, you know, And so, you know, it's like, okay, sweetie, it's time to brush your teeth.
No. Yes, we have to brush your teeth because you don't want to have rotten teeth.
And you don't want to go to the zoo. It's cool.
And then there's me, you know, pinning you down on the floor of your bedroom. going, we're going to brush your teeth.
And you're like, no, no, no. And it's like, yes, yes.
And we're like power struggling through life until I realize... who you were, you know?
And it was by that point though, all that reactive parenting had already taken place. to me, when I think of reactive parenting, it's like a more emotional tone.
It's like, uh more it's a more elevated tone it's more of there's anger you know there's emotion it's like But it's also cutting off children and not hearing them.
You know, like being really emotional about something or snippy.
And not giving a child a chance to say, hey, wait a minute.
I have something to say about that. No, you just need to go brush your teeth and go to bed.
You know, it's like... But wait, I have something to say.
No, you just, you know what I mean? And that happened.
And that is something that I'll probably never be okay with.
Like, it's just... You know, because it hurts.
And it's like, because I see you... overcompensating sometimes because I think...
That influenced, you know what I mean? And it's kind of sad.
Yeah. No, it's not sad. It is because you go, I just, especially with, say, like in relationships with like friends or boys.
And it's like, no, no, no, no, don't do that.
I caused that for you. Don't do that. Don't like.
Like be sort of more of a pushover or be like too agreeable or be like... Right, or not feel like or hesitate to... to speak your mind because you were shut down as me being a reactive parent in that parenting style, kind of shut you down in a way so you felt like you weren't going to be heard or that you couldn't speak up for yourself.
And so I've seen you do it in relationships, whether it's just friendships or... where the other person may not be the best person for you to be around.
Because of their... So then they bring out that side of me.
So then, not that they would ever... maybe even consciously take advantage of that of you, but but that dynamic comes out in a, That's where so one time I was, you know, it's like it was a real and it wasn't even that long ago.
I saw it on Instagram and it was somebody acting out a reactive parenting scenario and I went, Oh.
Oh no, I was that parent for a while. And then I sent it to you and I was like...
Emma, oh my God, I was that parent. And I think this is why you do this thing.
Yeah. Or do these different things. And I wanted you to be aware of it.
So you would say, wait a minute, I don't have to do that.
I don't have to do that. I can, I have a voice and I need to be heard and I don't, I don't need to hold back just because that happened to me when I was a kid that influenced the way I am with everyone else in my life.
I'd much rather you recognize that and me go down for it.
I'll go down for it just to help you see. the person you don't need to be.
Yeah, but ultimately that is... phenomenal parenting, though.
Like, well, you never stop being a parent, right?
No, and it's like, okay... Yeah, that was like a rough patch, you know?
And it was... And it definitely formed me in a way.
I mean, every single little thing that happened when I was a kid formed me in a way.
You know, also feeling like Like I can call you at any time and talk to you about anything and you're never gonna judge me And you're always going to, like, you know, you're not going to get mad at me.
Like... on that side of things, that formed me in a way where now I'm not afraid of being myself as much.
Yeah. But I do think that being a good parent is being selfless enough with your child, taking your ego out of it Being selfless enough with your child to say, I fucked up.
This is how I think it fucked you up. And I'm sorry.
And let's work through it together so that...
You can heal from that. I can heal from that.
And we can all blossom. Because at the end of the day, if it's not that, it's probably something else.
I do think in order to be a good parent...
You kind of have to let your ego go. I agree because that's why you're able to now to see this TikTok about how you were. how you parented in a way that you're not proud of and to send it to me and say, I'm sorry.
Yeah. That, like, you can't do that if your ego's in it and you're like, no, no, no, I have ego in being a good parent, a perfect parent.
Right. But your dad and I have talked many times about this.
It's like, once you have a kid... You go out the window, okay?
It's not about you anymore. You have this little person and you got to give it your all. and make sure that they're safe, happy, and whatever.
It's not about raising the smartest or the cutest or the most talented.
It's just about we've talked about this so many times.
We gave you the opportunity to be you. And we had respect for you as a little human.
And we wanted you to develop into whatever you were going to be. who we are, who you are, you know, and I think that's where a lot of Parents are like, oh, no, no, no, we don't talk about that.
We don't talk about this or we don't get, you know, boy crazy or we don't.
You know, we don't say this word. We don't... You know, it's like... But...
You know what I mean? Such a funny example to use because nine times out of ten I'm calling you, it's about a...
It's about all of those things, which is just totally normal.
Whereas other parents, I think, really try to control. you know, that kind of stuff.
And it's like, why though? Is it because you're worried about looking bad because you're- kid because your kids are boy crazy.
Girls and boys and Everybody's crazy about everybody.
You know what I mean? At a certain age. Just like, so why do you care how that's gonna make you look?
But also even like college, like, oh, my kid needs to go to this college or, oh, my kid needs to get this job.
It's like, it does really get, it's... it's terrible on both ends.
It's terrible for the child because they feel like they can't you know, discover what they want to do with their lives themselves.
But then it's terrible for the parent because I'm so sorry, you're going to get disappointed.
You're going to get fucking disappointed.
Or if you put rules into place like that, you know, we had conversations because you felt like you had to go to this college or that college or a good college or whatever.
And it's like, no, wait a minute. You can do whatever you want.
You're in the driver's seat. And it doesn't...
No judgment here. You know, that's why you're doing what you're doing because-
Interesting, though, because how rare is it for a parent to know?
This is so backwards. how often is the kid like, no, I need to go to college, but something inside me is telling me I'm not going to go.
And the parents are like, don't go. What is that?
I know, but it's crazy how... the gut instincts, you know, really kick in.
And because your dad and I it wasn't about us, it was about you and about you being happy, healthy, figuring things out.
It wasn't about like, oh, well, if she doesn't go... to Harvard, then we're going to look like dumbasses or something like it.
Just, you know. It didn't matter to us, you know what I mean?
But also I went to FIDM. he went to a few years of, you know, so it's like, well, right.
It's like, who are y'all to talk? Right, but it's like you could say, well...
Don't do what I did. Go to... You know, get... For your education and... and reach for the stars or whatever.
But you don't have to reach for the stars On a certain path.
And you had made it really clear that...
That path was everyone's doing the same thing.
Everybody looks the same way. And I look around the room and every face looks the same.
And I'm like driving going. Oh my God, she's freaking me out right now.
Like, I don't even... What does she mean by that?
Like, I thought, you know, because... you were so much more advanced you know, then I realized, and you're telling me this on the way home from school one day when you were in high school and I was going very Shakespeare.
I was going very poetic. I was going very abstract art.
Right. in the car with you that day. And I was like shaking going, oh my God, do I need to like... have a you know like sign her up with a psychologist like I don't know what to do and and and then it was like We went to the college counseling and you walked out of there just shaking your head and I'm going, I don't know what's going wrong.
I will say that was when I sort of like my I started having very intuitive feelings at that point.
And well, you said you didn't see yourself graduating from high school, like walking the line and it freaked you out.
Remember that? Well that was what was so weird.
And to this day is so weird. with graduating high school in the proper way, right?
Like, walking down the line. Like, you know, I couldn't see it.
I could not see me in college. I wanted both of those things.
You know I was a very studious... academically driven child.
You were so anxious about Perfection in that setting.
Right. Like because you were it was it was something you would say.
I gotta get into the best colleges. I have to have those.
I just have to, I have to. And we're like, but why do you feel like you have to do that?
It's so weird. The whole thing is weird in retrospect because it's like most of the time a kid's not going to Catholic all-girls school?
Unless their parents forced them to go. Right.
Like, I wanted to go. Yeah. I wanted to go because I was like, this is going to help me prep for college so that I can go to a good college because...
I really think what it was rooted in was feeling...
Like, obviously, the Bay Area, the Silicon Valley, it's a bunch of tech families.
It's a lot of wealthy kids. Yep. And we weren't necessarily there.
We weren't up there with that. We were totally fine.
Yeah. But. We weren't there. You know what I mean?
To me, I was like, I feel inferior in a way.
Which was completely fucking ridiculous in retrospect.
No, but that's normal. But I mean, as a kid who doesn't understand.
I mean, and as even as a parent, you know, I wanted so badly to provide that. a house with, you know, whatever, and then whatever kind of car you wanted when you turned 16.
I wanted to provide all that and that made us who we are today.
But at the time, my heart hurt so. You know, to not be able to provide that for you.
But when I looking back, I'm glad I didn't.
Me fucking too. Right. So, I mean, I'm not I don't regret any of any of it.
But at the time it was really hard because it was like.
I was constantly looking for the little house, even just rent that would be affordable.
And I think growing up how I grew up, I also felt inferior to the kids that had the married parents. the the brothers and sisters in the house with the two dogs and the this and the that and the three two trucks and the car to go to town in and, you know, all the stuff.
Like I did not have any of that either. Yeah.
But I look back and I go, oh man, my childhood is so interesting.
Cool and interesting and dynamic. But also, when you're a kid, you probably have experienced this, when you're a kid, You take everything for granted.
You know what I'm saying? You don't realize how good you have it until you're older and you're able to see... things from a worldly scale, right?
Like, I was under the impression that, like, My childhood was much more challenging than it was because I was comparing... you know, myself to like these rich kids who have like tech parents.
Yep. You know, like millionaire parents.
Yeah. Like they're everywhere. And I'm comparing myself to that.
I only made it worse by going to Catholic all-girls school.
The only way that we were able to do that was by getting financial aid.
Right. But then I'm around it even more, and I was just so cynical.
I was like, pfft. you know like fuck these people because I'm around like I'm around all this I'm around actually what I realize now was extreme wealth.
Like that is an unusual sort of setup. You know, it's not normal for, you know, 15-year-old girls to be getting like, a Dior bag for Christmas.
Like, that's very weird. Like in most places it's not normal.
Or like the car of their dreams, brand new for their 60th birthday.
And then they crash it and then they get a new one the next week.
That's not normal. See, I just had no clue.
I had no context. It makes you... Because you look back and you...
Like, I so appreciate my upbringing and my childhood and all the different stuff.
And also, too, even yours. Yes, me too.
I was obsessive about... like I said getting the cute little house that you could have your friends over and not you know be embarrassed because you know it was I actually, it was so important.
It was so important. It was so important.
And it was cute inside. It was super cute.
No, it was cute. Okay, well, let's just describe it.
It was like basically we had this apartment that we lived in for years and years and years.
It's like 10 years. It was like 10 years.
And I was mortified of this apartment. I'm so sorry.
It's okay. Okay. No, no. Listen, in retrospect now, I'm like, My mom put a roof over my head.
We had two bedrooms in there, which is incredible.
I had my own space. You know, awesome closet.
It was clean always. It was like... It decorated so cute inside.
You know, it was... It was more, I could not be more grateful for it now, but at the time, let me tell you.
So all the neighbors were a little creepy.
No, we had some cute ones. The ones across from us upstairs were awesome.
But the ones below us were awful. Awful.
Awful. In absolute feud with them. It was insane.
I had to tiptoe. walking around the house because if not, they would start hitting the fucking ceiling with a broom and they'd be like, shut the fuck up.
And they were always on some sort of drug, okay? and our apartment smelled like weed.
And my mom calling the police all the time.
They would call the police on us. We'd call the police on them.
And I think reactive parenting came from that.
Like, I'm not trying to make excuses, but...
That situation, I look back and I go, I should have just gotten us out of there because I would be so short tempered because.
Yeah, but it was hard because I lived... Like, we had... I was going to school there, and it was, like, gonna be... emotionally challenging to get me out of that school and like you're like, by the way, we were rent controlled there.
Oh, yeah. The rent was so amazing. You could walk to school.
So there are some good things about it. You could walk to school or I could pop you over or walk you to school.
There came a point where you wanted to walk to school by yourself.
It gave you that independence. But how often did your friends come with you after school?
Because we were one block away from downtown.
No, totally. You guys would go over and get whatever Starbucks or whatever.
Yeah. And it was the pad. You guys all hung out and you guys would... take little videos out of the window of friends walking by.
Because it was so fun. yeah it was actually like it was fun location location location it was interesting because like I was always very embarrassed to bring other kids over because, of course, naturally I'm comparing... this apartment to, you know, most of them had gorgeous houses or whatever. two story, you know, six bedrooms.
But I was like, But what was interesting was that most of them actually did end up preferring hanging out at our place because...
It was cozy, and there was a special energy there.
And again, I... I am so appreciative of that.
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We went off on a crazy tangent, and I'm glad we did, because that was a phenomenal topic.
But all of this was because I was saying...
It made no sense for me to be like, I need to go to a Catholic all-girls school because...
There was a lot of friction to get me there.
It wasn't like, oh, this is a seamless, easy thing, like whatever.
But did we ever do anything easy? No, but I had this gut intuition.
I was like, I need to go to this Catholic all-girls school.
And then it was like... You know, I knew I had to go there.
Right. But then when it came to going to college, I like knew everything.
It was not going to happen. But it was going against my logical brain and it was so weird.
And to this day, though... it's like that happens.
Like that just happens with me. Like even with friendships, like I'll be like, don't see this in two years like even if I'm like we're having so much fun I want to be friends with this person forever but I'll close my eyes and I'll be like I don't see it but then I'll have friends where I close my eyes and I can see it.
That's a more recent development. I don't think...
Where it's like, whoa, I actually am seeing these people in my head for a long time.
But same thing with even dating. Like every time I, oh, this is like.
When you are, I'm like, I'll be so in love with someone.
I think at least. Whether it's real love or not, it depends.
It could be an illusion. It could be not.
But... I'll be so convinced that I'm in love with this person for the right reasons and that this is something that's going to go the distance.
I'll close my eyes and I'll be like, it isn't.
I know it isn't. Wow. But it goes against... what I want to be true.
And you kind of want to go, well, I could be wrong. and I do that and then every time I do I get fucked over Yeah.
So I'm learning now that. But that's such a gift.
I mean, that's something to pay attention to.
Do you have that? I feel like we all have a gift for intuition.
And so... say you're talking about a situation with a relationship friendship, whatever.
I'm not saying specifics. And it comes in And I might just have an intuition about somebody and I'll say it and I'm usually right.
And it's kind of freaky. It's kind of freaky.
Moms kind of know. And maybe it's just because I've been around the block multiple times.
People always say that, like, moms always know.
And it's so interesting because... Fuck.
Like, you have nailed it on the head with, like, everyone.
Like, you do know. Like, you... you immediately, I actually need to start asking you more like, Because I'll give you my opinion.
I know. And it's not even judgment on...
It's not even like, oh, those are bad people.
Don't hang out with them. Well, it's about the compatibility with me.
Yeah, it's not even about. Yeah, it's mostly it's it's like a dynamic and like, you know.
I've just come to that place where I pay attention more.
And I think you've just been more in tune.
I mean, I think I might be in tune, but...
Yes. I will ignore it. Well, no, I think what happens with you, though, is.
Because you have anxiety, you will... overanalyze those things sometimes.
And then you get worried about it. An example would be like an intrusive thought, right?
And then all of a sudden you'll start to make something out of that because you'll go, oh, Oh, that popped in my head.
And is that... Okay, but does that mean it's real?
Or is it just because it was an intrusive thought?
So you have this like... oh my gosh, you poor thing.
Like it's really, but I have done that my whole life.
And And I got a handle on that when I was in my older 20s.
I'm getting better about it. I was probably even in my 30s when I was able to get a handle on that.
And figure out the tools. And you will. You'll get there.
But it sucks because you'll spend so much energy and time and. and lose a lot of sleep over this kind of stuff that you create yourself that, that, 99.9999% of the time never happens.
And so that's why I'm here to remind you because I've learned how to cope with that and talk myself out of it.
And it's been a blessing. I mean, I like thank God that. you are as anxious as me.
Like, imagine you were sort of a child that You grew up just as anxious as me, but you didn't have a parent who understood.
Right. There's a certain... feeling that you have when you're the anxious kid that's worried about a lot of things.
Because you're so distracted by the worry and the... that dark cloud following you around that, You just don't, you know, it's hard to like let go and have a good time.
And when you like I just, you know, I see some of that in you.
And so I try to. do whatever I can to say, hey, I did that.
And look, you know... Oh, it makes it so much... It's so...
It is such a gift, like, to have somebody to call... when you're like, I'm experiencing this, this, this, this, and that.
What's happening. Right. And to have somebody say, you're not dying.
You're not losing your mind. You're totally fine.
This is normal. And it's happened to me.
I mean, I really think that one of the most... powerful resources anxious people can have is just someone, anyone, that has experienced it before.
That's a key, key, key component. needs to understand it.
You have to, yeah. Because if you talk about it with somebody who doesn't, they'll make you feel crazy, actually.
They'll make you feel... they'll completely, the way that their tone towards you will never be empathetic enough.
Right. Only from somebody who has experienced deep anxiety, only can they...
Like, that's at least my experience. Well, I never had... I never had anybody...
I know. No one. I never had anyone to understand it.
Not a parent, not a friend. No one. No one understood what I was going through.
And it wasn't even like... Well, no, like panic disorder and anxiety, generalized anxiety and panic disorder was just not very commonly.
Talked about or addressed or in most people if they did have it they were on anti-anxiety medicine, which was not an option for me.
And so... But nobody understood what I was feeling.
And so... you know, until I, you know, finally did meet, work with somebody who did and they gave me this workshop thing and I did it twice over and that's how I was able to to get the tools that I have and and Thank goodness, have them to share with you and to understand it is just, you know.
That's what it is, I've noticed with anxiety.
It's like, once you understand it, and that's what's making it easier for me now, like... knowing that it's normal and it's going to pass and that it's not like something is... very, very wrong.
Right. I will say though, I've noticed in you recently, you're making friends in the neighborhood.
Oh yeah. My mom moved to Los Angeles, California with – now she's – not my neighbor, but she lives pretty close.
And so, you know, we're LA girls now, obviously, but
I feel like you moving to L.A. has been really good for you.
I feel like you have so many friends. I feel like...
You're like, I'll call you and you're like, I'm on a walk with my friend.
And I'm like, what? That's weird. you're like wait a minute you're always there for me you're like I'm going to this like dinner party or something and I'm like oh what I know it's kind of crazy but it's amazing you I think you're actually I think living in LA you know you're coming out of your shell and I think you're learning to have a better work-life balance.
And I honestly think... It's never too late to figure that out.
And, you know, you're at a place now where financially it's like...
Maybe you can give yourself a little bit.
You've worked so hard for so many fucking years.
So fucking hard for so many years. I know.
And like... You know, and you've, it's like, I think at a certain point it'll click for you and you'll be like, I think I do get to celebrate now.
And that can happen anytime. That can just happen whenever.
There's no timeline where it's like, oh...
I missed out. I didn't do it soon enough.
So now I have to live this way for the rest of my life.
It's like, hello. No. I'm trying. I'm doing... You will.
It's baby steps. Well, I'm here to be like...
Okay, mommy, time to get out. It's getting weird.
Time to get out. Mommy, you're being so boring.
Totally. This is so weird. But you know, it's funny.
Like, it's like... back in the day it's like oh you know the different things that adults did to go have fun is just not the stuff that I like.
So now it's like taking out time with these new friends that I have to try new restaurants or I just have them over for coffee or go take like, you know, take the kids for. long hikes to the top of the hill you know like things that are just more in my So I'm just more lined up with people that like to do the same things.
Yeah. And so it's kind of funny because I like moved here and I've never looked back and it's been so fun.
It's been so fun. You know what? I actually think we love L.A.
I love LA. Everyone loves LA. I do. No, it's funny because you know I hated LA for so long.
I'm actually, like, fucking into LA right now.
Me too. I'm loving it. No, I'm not kidding.
Like, I... When I would come down and help you at the different locations you were at before, I was kind of like, I don't think so.
I lived in terrible areas. I was just like, I don't think I can do it.
And then... like I got you know when I got kinda stuck here you know helping to get the house finished and all that and it just got my house yeah yeah got a routine down, it was like, oh, well, I already kind of lived here, so...
And I liked it. I liked it. And then it was like, I've never looked back.
I love it. I love it. I'm not like I just I'm giddy with how much nature I get to be.
I know All the critters She Okay We love rats, like pet rats.
We love them. And she had a pet rat in college and she would... carry it to class in her pocket and it would sit in her little sweatshirt pocket and it would crawl up on her shoulder and sleep on her shoulder.
And this was her little best friend. And when I got older, then my mom was like, Let's get Emma a rat.
I wanted a rat. So I had pet rats. We both have a deep fondness for rats.
Top rodent, I'd argue for the both of us.
Although my mom also loves squirrels. That's her top rodent.
My top rodent is probably rats. I, like, actually love them and I think that they're incredibly smart.
And, you know, I'm not... Listen, I don't...
I don't need to see a big two-foot New York rat, right?
I'm not hungry for that experience. but like a little cute female pet rat, obsessed.
Long story short, my mom loves rats. I love rats.
Yeah. She also used to feed the squirrels at her work.
And then she also, and then on top of that, she's obsessed with the salamanders in that are all around or no it's not salamanders what is it Lizard, sorry.
She has a lizard friend. Western fence lizards and... southern southern alligator lizards oh my god there is so many cool lizards at my house you guys like No, it is so cool.
Like some of them are like super turquoise.
And some of them are just like, you know, there's all sorts of little baby ones.
Oh my gosh. You're definitely an animal person.
Like, it's very special to see. Well, that's why I would rather be with the animals than be out and be social. one of those that needs to wear the shirt that's like, I like my dog more than people.
Yeah. Like that's you actually. It's like the picture of the person laying on the floor talking to the dog when they're at a party.
That's me. Classic Sophia. Classic mommy mode.
Yep. can't help it sorry yeah well i mean i think and i'm not going to apologize for it don't I think their final conclusion is my mom likes...
Any critter that's within a 10-foot radius of her house more than she likes me and that's okay and as a relationship.
And right now, because you're older and you're now an adult, like they can take priority over you sometimes and you don't like it.
No, I actually kind of am relieved. I'm like, you know what?
She's having fun and I can call you at 2 a.m. while you're cuddling with the critters.
Right. Like it's a perfect balance what we have.
I know. Well, mommy, thank you for coming on the show.
You're welcome. It was fun. Did you have fun?
Yeah. Did you come back? Oh my God. Totally.
Okay cool. I feel like we could talk forever.
I know. Yeah. And we will. You'll come back and next time we'll talk about We'll really dig into the rats.
Oh, God. Yeah, no, no. And I should probably stop saying God.
I keep saying that. Oh, really? You can say God.
Oh, okay. You can say fuck. You can say shit.
You can say God. You can say anything you want.
You can say damn. Ass. Okay, good. Titties.
Okay, titties and ass. Okay. Cooter. Vagina.
Vagina. Peanut. Penis. Yes. Let it go. Let loose.
That should be like my warm up before I record is I make everyone go down the list of like You know, of like, ooh, that's a little spicy words.
Spicy. I like that. Spicy words. And you did amazing.
Awesome. I can't wait for you to come back.
I know. I can't wait to come back. It was fun.
