Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. it's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion no ads just you and early access to new episodes You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And I'm Spencer Henry.
And this is Morbid slash Cult Leader, all in one place, all at the same time.
Because that, because that exact reason.
No, so basically, we wanted to have Spencer on the show today, number one, because he's just really fun to hang out with.
And number two, because we want to have people go listen to Spencer's show, Cult Leader, because we think it rocks.
It's on Morbid Network. So why aren't you listening to it if you're not?
Yeah. is just a little way to get you guys to like get to know the hosts of all our network shows so you can hear them in their natural elements.
And you can be like, wow, I love that person.
Let's go listen to all their episodes. Basically, we just want you to have something new to binge.
And we want you to love our family as much as we love our morbid family.
And we know you will. Yeah. So we gathered some questions for our boy.
S. Henry today. I can't believe I didn't put a lifetime question in there.
What the hell was I thinking? Maybe I'll throw you one on the spot.
It's never too late. It's never too late.
First, Spencer, thank you so much for coming and doing this with us.
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited that we actually get to like sit and do this.
We've talked obviously a lot. We talk a lot.
Yeah. air which is probably a good thing i know finally it's all let all roads have led to this it's all happening as sheena shea would say And someday it'll all happen in some spooky place like Salem.
Like a cemetery. Yeah. Honestly, it needs to happen.
It needs to happen. We need to... Yes. Let's get rid of the Rona and then we can all do this.
We just need to vibe. We do. So we'll start this out with a pretty, I think a good question.
The name cult leader, it makes so much sense.
But you spell it L-I-T-E-R. So I have to ask.
Where did the name cult leader come from?
I like how I said that. Like, I don't know if you know this, but you spell it like a leader of cult.
It's actually funny. It is very like a cult look. like a real life cold like fashion.
It was like very prophetic. It just came to me at once, the logo and the name in itself.
And if you look at the logo, it obviously makes sense because it's like a two liter bottle or whatever.
Exactly right. I just like this random image of it.
So there it is. It just came to you in a dream.
Okay, so here's what happened. I went in my closet portal.
Yes. Yes. Tell us more as we all do. It came to me.
Someone spoke to me and said, listen, this is what you're supposed to do.
Someone was like, welcome to your closet portal.
We have a message. I am your leader and you should spell leader with a T.
Because who doesn't love soda? I love soda.
Dentists, that's who. It kind of makes sense too, because first of all, Cult Leader obviously makes so much.
It's such a brilliant name for a podcast, in my opinion. because as soon as I saw it, I was like, yeah, I want to listen to that.
Like, boom. And then also when you think about like the, it almost has a connotation with like the Jonestown thing, like drinking the Kool-Aid and, Yeah, it all kind of like, it makes you think of it immediately.
I don't know why, but it does. It's just art.
Yeah, it's just art. Damn it. Art. Kidding. it's called branding ever heard of it hello you should try it Hello.
Well, you did it great. You did because I'm sucked in.
And then obviously with a name like Cult Leader, your show focuses a lot on cults, but it definitely doesn't focus only on cults. but was there like a show, a book, something you, some case you saw that made you really start this interest in cults?
I mean, I've always been like this and it's actually funny.
So I was listening to... the episode you guys recently did with Rachel, and you were talking about her concept and everything, and she was like, talking about why she focuses primarily on the people that she focuses on.
And she's like, cause otherwise every other week it'd be a haunted place.
And I'm like, that's exactly what I do. And I'm like, is that why my brain is the way that it is?
That's what we do, too, so we get that. We do, too.
There hasn't been one thing in particular, but the whole concept of Cult Leader actually came, I was sitting at home, obviously and i was watching heaven's gate like a docu-series on heaven's gate and i scariest was like i need to talk to more people about this and this was pre-cult leader and so i put it on my instagram stories and i was like oh my god you guys can we talk about how you I had like no followers at the time or anything.
But we started, a lot of people were like messaging me back and forth and we started talking about it.
And then that turned into like, a regular series that I was doing on my Instagram stories every week talking about a different cold or crime or murder, basically whatever I was watching.
And then somehow it just turned into this.
I love that. You're like a social media guru.
That's such a good organic way for it to happen.
It really is. I mean, it was fun, yeah.
It's like, okay, I like talking about this.
And then I... I remember I put up a poll.
I'm like, should I do YouTube or a podcast or whatever?
And I think actually more people said YouTube.
I was going to say. They always want you to go to YouTube.
I cannot look at myself. No. Same. It's painful enough having to edit hearing your voice.
Oh, yeah. That's why I don't edit. Yeah.
It's just Elena. Yeah, it's literally. And sometimes I'll play her voice for it.
Like I'll just play her voice really loudly.
And she's like. Stop it. I scream. I like get pissed off.
I'm like, I don't need to hear myself because in my mind, I don't sound like that.
No, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what the draw is.
It's just, yeah. Well, when it comes to YouTube, I give YouTubers so much credit because I'm like, you have to get totally done up.
Just to do an episode? Like, no. I do an episode in my pajamas.
Do you see us right now? Yeah. i'm like i couldn't do that every day like i give a lot of credit Elegant gowns.
Yes. You guys can't. They're wearing elegant gowns.
I'm in a tuxedo, so we are YouTube ready.
We are, but we choose not to put ourselves forward.
We don't want to make people feel bad. Well, that's the thing.
You can't put that on people. Yeah, we don't want to force that kind of aesthetic on everybody else.
Hold on, let me move my crinoline gown and get comfortable.
So do you, I'm actually wearing an old man sweater right now.
Yes, you are. My favorite old man sweater.
But do you have a favorite cult or cult leader?
Like one that you love to talk about that you could literally just do like 100 episodes on.
And is it Charlie Manson? I mean, he's such a good one.
I feel like that case is definitely one of the cases that got me into true crime in general.
I remember... I was down in Palm Springs with my family for a weekend and they had this book there that was like called Hollywood Tragedy or something.
Amazing. That would draw me in. Yeah. little and I read about Sharon Tate and it talked about her brutal murder and I was like, oh, fuck, I don't know if I'm supposed to be reading this, but also I need to read more about this.
Yes. Also, I'm obsessed with Heaven's Day.
It's like a tried and true. It is. It's so weird.
I think it's weird that the website is still there.
I think it's weird that there's followers that still exist to this day.
Yes. That's what gets me about Heaven's Gate.
I'm like, y'all are still doing this? You're still subscribing to that way of life?
Thank you. Well, just the videos alone are terrifying.
They're like farewell videos and everything.
Oh, horrifying. Marshall Applewhite, who was... so crazy and his actually a relative of his like I think it was like her great uncle or something reached out to me recently and she had these letters pictures of letters that he had written her father thing.
What? But I was like, Oh, that's so crazy.
And it's just the photos from that one, like the photos of the shoes underneath. under the blankets.
It's just like, isn't it Nike's? It's Nike, the purple cloak, and then they each had like some weird dollar amount, like $5.25.
Yeah. something that they kept with them oh it's just so strange it's the spookiest like crime scene photos can get gnarly and those are obviously not like graphic but they're so spooky.
Oh, they do a recreation of it at the Museum of Death here in and it's so creepy yeah that would send chills down my spine for sure i also need to go to that museum There are so many things in California that we need to go to.
I need to go. We're moving in. We'll wear our Nikes and our purple clothes.
Yeah. I literally am wearing my Nikes today.
Yep. In honor of this. She was ready. She was ready.
I came prepared. You did. You always do.
So also what, so is there an upcoming episode that you're like particularly excited about just to get everybody?
Everybody's senses tingling. Yes, and that is a case that's actually in it's from Long Beach.
And it's ongoing right now, but this... Kid Zack Kennedy, he was a guy in his 20s, disappeared and...
His body was found, I think it was last year or the year before, in this other guy's backyard, Scott Leo.
And it's just a big fucking mess right now because I was actually reading an article That came out, I think, last night or maybe the day before, and they were talking about the guy who buried his remains on his property just got bail lowered to $100,000.
What the fuck? I'm sorry, what? they removed the murder charge.
So it's this big, confusing case that i'm like trying to pick apart right now in my head it's like keeping you up at night Yeah, it's been keeping me up for like two years.
I I've been to the house where it happened and I spoke with one of the neighbors when it was still all, Oh, wow.
So I have a lot of interesting input. Oh, I'm excited for this now.
I know. I feel. Do you know anything about this?
No, I don't think I know. I haven't heard of this at all.
It's a good one. Oh, now I'm excited. Now I'm going to go into a hole.
I know. I'm going to fall into an article hole.
Look what you did. Come on, Spencer. I'm gonna be like man edit this out I'm like yeah I think this is I'm just editing it.
I'm like, we're doing that next. Imagine.
The worst humans ever. Morbid's next episode.
Stolen from Spencer. Original idea by Elena and Ash at the same time.
Spencer Henry had nothing to do with it.
TM. neighbor oh i love it well i'm excited for that one i know It'll be a good one.
I'm excited to hear about it. So I guess we have to wait for that to come out before we can hear anything else because now I want there to be like full suspense.
Oh, yeah, 100%. I think the next question we have for you is other then this person that you're going to cover, this whole case that you're going to cover.
So with the previous cases that you've covered, who do you think kept it the most weird?
It's like picking children. Truly is. Yeah.
This is a real Sophie's Choice. Sorry. I think it's a toss-up for me between the... field poltergeist i did an episode on recently such a good one that is a good one and family from the UK because it inspired The Conjuring 2 and I love the whole Conjuring universe.
Me too. It's fun. And I'm such an Ed and Lorraine Warren stan.
Oh, yeah. OK, wait, do you want to hear something crazy?
Let me just totally interrupt the show. My best friend who lives in Colorado got this new roommate and Ed and Lorraine were her babysitters when she was younger. the coolest babysitters ever.
And my friend just texted me that one day with like no preface whatsoever.
I was like, I'm sorry, what? What? Isn't that crazy?
Imagine. Oh, coolest babysitters. Like how does that person not have a podcast?
Right? That's what I said. I was like. Can she be on sometime?
The education that kid received is like nothing you could ever pay for.
Like what? Yeah, I wonder if they like kept it normal or they like her bedtime stories were pretty.
They sat down on the bed and were like, okay, go to sleep and don't mind that little girl standing in the corner.
You can't say it, we can. Annabelle, she's gonna play with you this week.
She's stuck between realms. But it's cool.
Just don't bring it up. Yeah, she's going through a tough time.
Don't mention it. A tough time in space and time.
No, but that was a full interruption, so go ahead.
Who else kept it the most weird? what we're talking about well okay you know one case that always just fucks me up is armin mives Oh, I know that one.
I don't think I do know that one. I'm embarrassed.
It's called Cyber Cannibal. I think it's like 49.
I think I talked about it somewhat recently.
So gross. But he was... A cannibal but with willing participants.
Like consensual. Oh, I know about this. Okay, okay.
So it's kind of like one of those weird situations.
And I like that, like when things have those weird connotations of like, well, Technically, the person wanted it.
Yep. It's just one of those cases that makes you go, hmm.
Yeah, that makes you go, hmm, hmm, hmm. And those ones are always the ones that start like huge discussions too.
Right. Which I love. Like, is that okay?
No one can agree on what the right, like, is it okay?
Is it not okay? Because there was consent, but can you really consent to that?
Yeah, like how do we all feel about this?
Wild. It's so wild. Well, now I need to go back and listen to that one again because I love that case.
It's so weird and fucked up. And all of you guys should, too.
Go listen to that episode. What did you say, 49?
Yeah, I think it's 49. It's called Cyber Cannibal.
Cyber Cannibal. That's such a good band name.
Online. Yeah, that was what it was. The good online days back in like AIM days, like we're not talking about Instagram.
Nope. twitter we're talking about good old aim which i'm sure we all The glory days.
Probably could have been taken at some point.
Oh, I should have been taken many times.
Oh, we're all lucky that Ash is still here with us.
Yeah. Hi. I was just like, oh, yeah. This is my name.
Here's where I live. Yes, everybody. You do the, like, ASL.
Age, sex, location. You tell everybody everything about you.
And lie about your age. Be like, I'm actually 18.
Yeah, I'm down to party. Let's get it. Woohoo.
I'm 13, my balls haven't even dropped. I'm like, I don't even know how to apply makeup yet, but yeah, I'm 18 for sure.
Here I am. Those are the days of like rotten.com. where you would look at it and you'd be like, I shouldn't look at this, but you did look at it.
I remember you looking at rotten.com being like, wanna look?
And I'd be like, no, you asshole. Then I was like, do it anyway.
Look at it. And then I became a weirdo.
Hey, it worked out for you in the end. It did.
It definitely did. No regrets. I saw this meme that was like back in my day, like we talked to strangers in internet chat rooms and watch people get beheaded online.
It's the truth. That's why we have like a thick skin.
These Gen Zs don't know what it's about.
They just don't know. By walking through the grocery store with our parents and seeing pictures of JonBenet fucking everywhere in the 90s.
On every magazine. Yep. where a lot of this stems from is just like this Morgan.
It's so true. The JonBenet case will forever be my number one that needs I know what happened.
That's the thing. But I need somebody to admit what happened.
Confirm and stop denying. Yeah. I'm almost just sick of it at this point with JonBenet.
I'm sick of your shit. Listen, figure it out, okay?
Well, that's the thing. I'm like, it's there.
Like, it's there. It's there. I'm not going to say what's there, but it's there.
It's right. There's a lot sitting right there.
I need someone to kick it and admit it on the deathbed or something.
Like, I need someone to tell me, like, yeah, you're right. that's all I need I just need like a wink and a nod to me like Elena you got it you know like that's all I need The call is coming from inside the house.
Yes. 100%. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring.
Just read between those lines. Yeah. I think we all know.
Well, everybody, I think you need to go listen to episode 49.
And I also think you need to listen to the upcoming 100th episode. yes of cult leader with spencer henry we love spencer you're you love spencer spencer loves moida And we'll all be together one day.
Well, let me ask you, what's your, do you guys have a favorite lifetime movie?
Oh yeah, I was like, we have to do the lifetime.
Oh yeah, we do. Okay, so let Let me go first because I grew up with a mom that loved Lifetime and neglected me, so I also love Lifetime.
I would have to say it's a toss-up between the Betty Broderick, because I think there was two Betty Broderick movies, and when they... just watched that one the other day.
And then she went and she's like, I listened to your episode and she like can't handle scary stuff.
But she's like, I went and I listened to your episode on Betty Broderick after.
It's so good. I watched that before our episode on Betty Broderick.
And then it's a toss up between that one and the one that they did.
I can't remember what it's called. It might even be Long Island Lolita.
But the movie that they did with her about Joey Buttafuoco.
Buttafuoco. And what's her name? Amy. Amy Fisher.
Amy Fisher. Yeah. I think there was one- wasn't there one that was kind of based loose- it was based off the Skylar Niece case?
Oh, I don't know. It was like more recently, I think.
There was one that was like in that same vein.
But I can never remember the name of these movies.
There's a Lifetime movie about essentially everything.
Yeah. I have top two, okay, and one is, my number one is Death of a Cheerleader.
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.
I just fucking love it. And I mean, Tori's spelling, Oh my god, I forgot.
You can't go wrong. actress. You just brought me right back.
We were just talking about Tori Spelling the other day.
Did you guys know she fell on a hibachi grill once at like a Benihana and then tried to sue the restaurant?
You know, that makes a lot of sense. That's a piece of information that I feel you just gifted us.
And you didn't have to, but I feel so grateful for it.
I wanted to bring you something. You really brought a gift.
That's what it was. I love that you just kept that in your pocket till the end.
You buried the lead. Everybody has one. And then my other favorite one is Love You to Death, which is...
Their version of the Gypsy Rose Blanket.
Oh my God, yes. I haven't watched that one yet.
Is it good? I haven't seen that one, but I've heard things.
No, none of them are good. But is it good in the way where it's not good?
Oh, the wigs are... Yes! I love a good wig.
It's the most ridiculous. retelling of a story that I have ever seen.
10 out of 10 recommend. Okay, perfect. I'm watching that.
Because that story, I mean... Whoa. Yeah.
Whoa, Jo. Trying to make that like theatrical or cinematic is tough because on its own.
I was going to say more than it already is.
Yeah, it's all got it. Oh, man. So, yeah.
We gave you a lot of stuff to do, guys. Hey, we give you guys a lot of homework, so go check out those Lifetime movies.
For real. I love that we figured out a way to put that in there.
And by we, I mean you. Like, you don't even have to listen to me.
Just go watch the fucking live show. I need you to see them.
You need to see them. It's important. You'll be a better person afterwards.
You will. Well, Spencer, thank you so much.
This was so amazing. And someday we're gonna sit at a dinner table together.
It's gonna be beautiful. the best thing ever thank you guys for having me anytime it's an open invitation for you too it was an honor and a privilege All right, well, do you wanna, why don't you plug where we can find you?
Where can you find me, you ask? Well, you can find me on Instagram at co-leader podcast at Spencer Henry.
And then you can find the podcast. anywhere you listen to your favorite pods.
And then enjoy this little snippet. of a chosen episode so you can listen to it and be like, whoa, I love this.
I need to finish it and go over to Spencer's feed.
And see all the wonderful gifts he has for you on there.
Insert episode here. Our story takes place in Nanup, Western Australia.
A small town whose name means a stopping place with a population of just around 600 people, give or take.
It's a very simple life here. The town boasts a main street with a few cafes and the Nanup Hotel.
Cattle farms in the area seemed to dominate the local economy.
For the Codwell family, it was the perfect place to call home. when they moved there to a small blue farmhouse in 2003.
The family consisted of Simon Cadwell, his wife Chantel, who was 18 years his junior, and their daughter that was born in 2001, Lila.
Also living in the home was friend of the couple, Tony Poppich. get more into the inner workings of the family dynamic a little bit later on.
Upon moving to the town of Nanup, Chantelle assimilated quickly.
She was very involved in the community, teaching swimming classes, and eventually she picked up shifts at a fish and chips bar in a local hotel in town called the Nanop Hotel.
The family friend Tony also got a job fairly quickly after the move working at the local hardware store.
According to his manager at the time, Tony related easily to people and always kept busy, and he was an excellent employee, a real nice guy.
While Chantal was out and about starting a life, her husband Simon was much more introverted.
He would stay up all night online and he would sleep in late.
Raise your hand if you also are the same.
He was a private person, and to be honest was not thrilled with how chatty his wife was with the other people in the town.
Simon was controlling and bizarre. His behavior was off.
Friends and family reported that his behavior was even sometimes outrageous.
Chantel's own parents, Jim and Kathy McDougal, weren't thrilled necessarily with their daughter's marriage to Simon.
At first they were like, you know, he was nice enough but the more that they met him, the more they questioned his quirks.
I read somewhere that I think the parents, the first time they actually met Simon, wasn't until shortly after they gave birth to Leela, so...
The couple had been together for a bit before the parents met him.
And it was nothing to do with the age difference necessarily.
It was more just the things that she would tell them.
Simon has radical beliefs, Chantel would tell them.
He's gonna change the world. Like, ladies, listen, if your man says he's gonna change the world...
You better fucking get out of there. Run.
Based on our experience here at Quote Leader, you want to know whose world he's going to change?
Yours. Because now you're with some dude that thinks he's on this higher level, you're gonna end up in a closet portal, or you're gonna end up six feet under.
When they would visit their daughter and granddaughter, they saw his controlling behavior firsthand.
Even something as simple as taking a family picture was met with some drama or angst.
Jim, Chantel's father, recalled having to secretly take pictures of Chantel and Leelak.
Sometimes Simon would be in them too, but he had no idea they were being photographed.
He was Not about it. Never wanted to be in any of the family pictures.
They just found Simon off-putting and he would say weird shit to them like, your daughter's from a different planet, do you know that?
Like a common theme we're gonna see Throughout the day, throughout their time living in Nanup, Simon would periodically become more and more controlling. and sometimes he'd even wait outside the hotel or restaurant where Chantal was working and observe her to make sure that she wasn't talking to people too much.
A friend of Chantel's, Amanda, pointed out that their relationship was always Simon first, and she meant it quite literally.
When the family was out and about, Chantal never walked next to Simon and never walked ahead of him, just always stayed a few paces behind, which is... disgusting.
I feel like that just gives us a pretty good picture of what their life in Nanup was like.
So I want to go to 2007 because we have some major stuff about to unfold.
They're living in this farmhouse, right?
Well, one day electricians arrived at the farmhouse that they were renting and began setting up a transformer on a power pole that sat out front of the home and simon just runs out there losing his shit he runs out of the house and is like What are you doing?
Why are you putting that up there? The electrical interference is just going to kill me.
It's going to kill all of us. Apparently so bewildered and upset that he began breaking out in hives.
I watched an interview with the electrician and he was just standing there like, yeah, so this is what happened.
You could tell he was uncomfortable because, I mean, who wouldn't be?
But I'm getting very much like 5G... QAnon vibes here from Simon.
The electricians ended up finishing their job.
They put up the transformer and they leave and they're like, You know, sorry dude, it is what it is.
Three months after the Transformer is installed, Simon, 45, Chantel, 6-year-old Leela and 40-year-old Tony. vanish out of thin air.
And this is where our story really begins.
Friends and family were bewildered. The whole thing was so bizarre.
They knew Simon had some strange beliefs and almost otherworldly ones, but this was by far the strangest thing any of them had seen from the couple.
Shortly before they disappeared, Chantal had phoned her parents and excitedly told them We're moving to Brazil.
Simon's there already. Leela and I will be joining him there.
Jim and Kathy say that their daughter seemed enthusiastic about the move, and Kathy asks the obvious questions, you know, why Brazil?
And Chantel tells her she's going to help people.
There's people in the Amazon they can help, and there's also people there that have the same ideology and beliefs as them.
It was the last time they ever heard from their daughter, and poof, she's gone.
The house was left as if they were just gone for the day.
Nothing out of place, just a letter pinned to the front door from Chantelle addressing the landowners. to Beth and Lyndon.
We've left suddenly due to lack of sleep from the electromagnetic field.
We've moved overseas to Brazil. Though Jim and Kathy were a little perplexed about their daughter's sudden move after her phone call, they weren't completely shocked.
She'd moved with Simon several times. She definitely went to the beat of her own drum. and they knew that she also shared some of his more intense beliefs.
But after eight weeks of no contact, they started to get the feeling like something wasn't right. so they go to the authorities and report Chantelle and Leela as missing.
It was only when police launched their investigation that they started to discover some alarming news.
It was an investigation that left them with more questions than answers.
Authorities first went to immigration where they learned that none of the family members or Tony Popich had left the country. not by aircraft, not by boat, nothing matching their description.
And then an even more shocking twist. Simon Cadwell, he's not who he seems to be.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mare exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
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