Monty Dimond - Sick & Tired of Being Sick & Tired | The Imperfects

My name is Emily and I'm a psychologist and regular guest on The Imperfects.

I was proudly born and raised on Wurundjeri country, and now live, work and raise my own children on the lands of the Whadjuk Noongar people.

I'm inspired by the strength and endurance of the world's oldest living culture.

We at The Imperfects, pay homage to traditions of story, and in particular its role in healing when we share and create space for stories on this podcast. Together with the Imperfects, I acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded and extend my respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

I acknowledge this land always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

I spent 90 % of last year in bed, the most hectic migraines that would sometimes last up to six weeks.

have a chronic illness and it's so invisible people think it's a headache and I'm here and I cannot leave my room we're all imperfect and on this podcast I'll be chatting with a variety of interesting people who are willing to make themselves vulnerable by sharing their own struggles and imperfections I'm Hugh van kalenberg from the resilience project and I'm Ryan Shelton from my mum, and I'm Josh, from Hugh's mum.

This is The Imperfects.

Oh, big day. Big, big day.

Big, big night if it's night time for you.

Big morning, if you're listening in the morning.

It's a Monty type of day, which is what Sam, her husband, probably says every day when he wakes up.

Yeah and maybe. I don't know if he'd still be doing it but maybe after a long use, that get a little bit aggravating.

You know what, it's a Monty sort of day today.

Shut up mate. Yeah we're very, very, very excited to have Monty on the show today.

Yeah a long -time friend of yours.

And yeah and just a wonderful, wonderful person.

Absolutely. With a beautiful story to share.

Yeah Monty I've known for maybe 20 years, but you would know Monty Diamond from like all the radio she's done.

She's done like Breakfast Radio, Drive Radio, and Sydney and Melbourne around the country.

But then you've probably also seen her on like the project, she's on the project all the time.

And have you been paying attention, she's been on that.

So yeah, she's her force.

She covers all range of topics.

The ones that stood out to me was the way she spoke about the passing of her mum, who she's incredibly close to.

She speaks about her ongoing issues with chronic migraines, which is something that a lot of people deal with, and it just completely wipes them out for...

I never understood it, really until we worked together.

And there'll be some days where we're about to do a show like at four o 'clock and she would have to, if she was suffering from migraine, to even give herself a chance to do the show, she'd have to go into another, like into a dark room and just lie down in darkness for like hours to hopefully let it pass.

It's completely debilitating.

And she also speaks about something very close to my heart, neurodiversity.

When I knew by the time this episode came out I was going to have read the letter that I wrote, the open letter.

Yeah. The Open Letter.

So it was the first time I had a chance to chat to someone um, a little bit more openly and honestly about it.

But it put her in Australia's position because I hadn't actually done it yet.

I hadn't read it out yet.

Um, but I, but it was the first time I was able to engage properly as a, as an as a parent out there, parenting a neurodivergent child.

And we will get to that.

Um, just before we do, um, we all had some fun on the weekend didn't we?

Yeah. What are you talking about?

Well, we had some fun with AI, didn't we?

Well, everyone in this room.

Yeah, everyone in the room.

Not just the who was on the table, but Bridge, and Bell Beineken, and George had a bit of a laugh at AI, didn't we?

Did we what? That was weird though, that was weird. So let's explain.

What did you wanna explain here?

I know, you can explain.

So at the time of recording this, Chat GPT had just sort of like upgraded their image creation technology.

so you could essentially describe an image and you could get it to like draw something in the style of, you know, like the Flintstones or the Simpsons with uncanny accuracy.

Incredible accuracy.

No, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's the case but yeah.

So I heard about this and I started playing with it.

And I was like, oh, you know, can you draw Ryan, Hugh and Josh from the imperfect in the style of, you know, this.

Yeah. It says, no, I can't, no. Yeah.

Although it was very strange.

And I don't know why it did this, but in every iteration that we did, and we can share these in every iteration we did, your hairline was very, very bad.

By bad you mean. Because looking at your hair.

Now it doesn't, it looks great.

Well, it was extremely in every version we did.

Did you go to get a haircut after these?

Oh yeah. As a result of these?

It's possible yeah.

What I found very entertaining was that the further back you placed it in time.

When you say that it's creating images that look like, like Renaissance paintings or whatever.

Yeah because we went, we went quite far with this, like you started with Studio Ghibli style.

Yeah, animation style.

Yeah. Simpsons, yep.

Ninety sitcoms. then I think I took it to like a 1960s style American panel show.

Yes yeah. But then went back to like 1920s sort of world leaders.

I thought I'd be interested in that.

And then went back to that Caravaggio style paintings from like the 1600s, 1700s.

Yeah. And then we stopped there, but we could keep going and maybe hieroglyphics.

Well that would be fun.

Not for my hair. It's up to see how they show a receding hairline in hieroglyphics.

Because they will. You know I will.

It's I mean like my, yeah, I mean the distinguishing feature, I mean, Josh, you just always looked like a very handsome young man.

I think it's a very good, accurate, and I just always look like, um, like, uh, a guy with like really curly black hair.

So I guess off the back of that, I looked through all the photos that generated, and my first thought was, am I actually much more bored than I has this happened in the last, a lot's happened in my life in the past six months.

Have I also gone bald and not noticed.

I decided to continue the conversation with AI.

I went quite quiet on the Slack conversation and I just had a long conversation with AI about my hair.

Based on those pictures or just general things.

I just wanted to, well, this is what I wrote.

This is my first question.

And you'll see the type -A here.

AI is getting very, AI now does callbacks to conversations you've had previously.

Which is really quiet.

It remembers things, yeah.

Yeah. And anyway, so you you'll spot a bit of that throughout this conversation, but you'll also just listen to this.

So I said, hey, mate, because I ...

Just wondering, here's a typewriter.

Hey mate, what are you doing tonight?

I've got like, a couple hours spare.

Hi, mate. Just wondering, what do the herbal public think of my hair?

That was meant to be general public.

Do people think I'm bald?

Um, also, does AI think I'm bald?

So here's AI's response.

Great question. Ha ha solid question.

Okay. Do you want this between the eyes?

Or would you like the self -esteem stroking heartwarming or should I say scar warming version?

Oh, wow You're cool.

I'm good to go either way.

I went definitely the self -esteem one Don't go anywhere near my eyes, please Okay, your eyes are safe for now mate, haha not to shoot something This is, this is, I feel like I was overreaching here for games.

Ha ha. Note to Hugh's self -esteem, you've got mail and here it is.

Oh, geez. Okay. From the photos I've seen of you, I'd say you've got thinning hair with a bit of a receding hairline but definitely not bald.

There's still a solid amount on top.

It's more mature and distinguished than Q -ball.

If the herbal public, great topo by the way, or was that intentional, saw you, they'd probably ago.

Oh yeah, that's a bloke in his forties with relatively happening hair.

Classic 44 year old stuff really.

He may not have too many haircuts left, but no judgment, no scandal.

That's just how it is.

And if AI had to make a call, I'd say not bald, just reliably lived in hair.

Want me to generate a few hypothetical public reactions or what AI would assume your hair says about you?" And I said, what, like a vox pop?

Yes, please. And feel free to do your between the eyes thing this time.

It said, all right.

Here's how a totally fictional, but very realistic cross section of the herbal, I mean general public, might react to your head.

Really not letting it letting go of that herbal thing?

Jesse, 25. Cafe barista.

Jesse, 25 cafe barista.

How old is he? C. 44.

Yeah, no offense but I'm not paying attention to a 44 year old.

Oh, wow. Wow, that has gone right between the eyes and through the head and you're dead.

Priya 27, hairdresser.

I wouldn't want him in my chair.

His haircut would look bad because he hasn't got my chair and then he'd blame me.

Fun! This is very cruel.

Glenn. 58, classic oversharer.

He'd want to avoid strong gusts of wind.

Dave, 44 footy dad who?

I've never heard of him.

I don't care. AI summary.

What is going on? Now it's not even about the hair.

I'm never this guy.

Sounds like a d***.

Yes, but can you comment on the hair?

Nope. But you're not even a real person.

I don't give a s***.

So here's a, here's a big call, but actually not that big a call, but it's a callback to about an hour before, which will make context for some people.

AI summary, is our summary of the whole thing.

So, yeah, if the Herbal public had a group chat, your hair wouldn't even be the headline.

Wanna hear what they'd say about your pink dildo though?

Oh, which is a deep cut from an imperfect episode.

Or a deep cut from Hugh's chat show V .T.

Yeah, it could be one of them.

Would you like me to bring up those links again for you Hugh?

Or have you already made your purchases?

No, because I did talk to Jack off to about the pink dildo that was found on the nature strip of our house and that was part of an episode.

This is not a... I haven't revealed myself, but I did.

I did chat to everybody who knows about it, because I asked it to when we were creating pictures, I thought it'd be good if we could, if I get a picture of the three of us holding the pink dildo, like it was a trophy.

And it said, no, it won't do that.

Yeah, just as a side question, how terrified would you be if your chat GPT history was released to the public?

That would go away for a while I think.

Took us off on a long holiday.

Is it the exposing?

I don't know if it'd be that bad, but I mean, I wouldn't, I'd have to check, but I think it would be more embarrassing, but I don't think it would be like career ending.

I just ask you the weirdest things.

You can tell. So Katie Diamond?

Yeah. I know it was Monty Diamond but I didn't know if, I don't know if Monty's a nickname but I thought maybe Diamond was as well.

No Katie Diamond, Katie Monty Diamond, people probably most know her as Monty, yeah.

I've been friends with Monts for so so long you can tell because I call in Monts.

You know, only part -time friends call her Monty, I'm down to Monts.

And if people start calling her Monts, I'm going to go to Mon, and if people go to Mon, I'm going to Mo.

Just so you know, that's how close friends we are.

Yeah. Well she certainly speaks very vulnerable and very openly about her struggles and she's had quite a few.

But what an incredible person.

And that was sort of our first time just hanging out with Monty and she's really wonderful.

Katie... She's a Catherine.

But yeah, we hope you enjoy this.

We will come back from this interview and we will chat.

There's something we're going to talk about which I think is on the horizon very much for you and I, Josh, which I think is and which is something a lot of people are experiencing right now which will be very evident throughout Catherine Diamond's conversation.

So I hope you enjoy Monty.

I'm feeling very nostalgic at the moment.

I've got Monti's in here and this is this feels really cool and now I've got nervous a little bit actually.

Oh, I'm happy. But yeah, so...

Well, Hugh, you'll do a full intro.

I'm assuming you got that lined up.

Yep. Good, thanks. But, but like, so for those who don't know Monty and I used to do a radio show it's like to be, to be with you again is really nice, but to be, like, on microphones together is really cool.

Yeah. Isn't it? When I walked in I said, I'm so nervous.

It's so strange. But because we did shows together and never ever did I get nervous.

Yeah. Never on radio were I nervous.

But here, even when I pulled up and saw you out the front and I'm like there's Sheldtsy me old mate.

But I'm like, feel vulnerable already.

You are a pillar of the Australian media industry.

Oh wow. I'll take it.

17 years of broadcasting, like nationally broadcast radio on KISS and Nova.

You're now a regular on the project.

Have you been paying attention?

Thank God you're here.

No, God no. That's my worst nightmare.

As Hugh goes to read his notes, he's like shit!

I mean, ironically the scripted bit that Hugh forgot was, thank God you're here.

Yeah, no, that's not.

Cause I'm always panicked that people will call me a comedian because I feel like people expect so much from comedians.

Like make me laugh and I'm like, no, no, I'm not a comedian.

Yeah, no way. Well, you're a wildly amusing person.

Oh, thank you. Here's something that is not funny that you've done.

That's good. Wow. This makes me nervous for never seeing this, to start like this.

No, you fought very hard for better rights for women in the media industry, which I think is something that people know about you and people in the industry as well very much respect and admire.

Wow, I don't think I actively did that, but I feel really happy I got to be a part of all female radio shows.

Yeah, which is weirdly rare.

Oh, it's so rare, there's so many male duos but there's never and there's always two guys and a girl, which Chelsea was our set up with Wippa.

Yep. So we, so just for about five minutes, we had a drive show together.

Well two years, two years.

And we did Saturday mornings together.

That's true. So Monty and I started doing, we did Saturday mornings for a year on Nova and then we moved to drive with Wippa.

Yes. WIPA came over from Perth and the three of us did drive for two years.

What was your show called, the two of you?

Rhinaw Monty. Just Rhinaw Monty and Rhinaw Monty and WIPA are very creative names.

That's what all radio shows are.

Totally. So we used our names in an order that sounded interesting and then that was the title of the show.

So, are you following?

Then I went to, what was it, Sheltie?

Merrick, Dools and Monty.

Wow. And that sea again, just two guys and a girl, which was a very interesting experience.

And then I went to all female shows, which was just glorious.

It was so refreshing and such a different environment.

There was a TV show that I worked on years ago, and one of the sketches that a couple of the writers came up with, Jason and Ray, they came up with a fake breakfast radio, FM breakfast radio show.

and the show was called DICKO BUMMO ON THE GIRL.

Yeah. And it just felt very apt.

Totally. Yeah, that's essentially what it is.

But yeah. But Monts, it's so good to see you.

Oh, you too. I just for some reason get emotional whenever I see you.

Yeah I'm just feeling the same.

Yeah, it's like, because it's such an intimate team which you guys have here.

You know when you work in such a small team, you become so close and you see the best and worst of each other.

And yeah, there's so much history there.

Like, we've been friends for over 20 years.

I know. But I think I also feel a little bit emotional.

I think because since then, like so much has happened and like you've gone through so many tough things and it's and it feels like it feels like another life when we were doing radio.

Like considering everything that you've, like all the great things you've done, but also all the really tough things you've gone through.

Yeah, it feels like a moment of like, God, it's a long time has passed.

Well a huge amount of time has passed.

It was like 15 years ago.

Yeah, it was. I thought about it the other day.

I'm like, that was 15 years ago.

So that was before kids.

Like my mum was still here.

Like so much has changed in that time.

I don't think we realised how, like the freedom we had, which you still pretty much have. Yeah.

Not much has changed.

Nothing. No. Nothing.

You've moved? Nothing.

You've moved house.

I've moved, moved house.

I've bought some new t -shirts.

You have. We've all had, we've all had shit happen to us.

Yeah, we have. Yeah, yeah.

But no, it's yeah. I mean, that, that is, that is I think the reason why I'm a little bit like, I mean, I don't know what it is.

It's a, you know, hearts aflutter.

Yeah, totally. That's very, there's a real connection between us that I think can never be broken.

Well, we'll see. We'll see you in an hour.

Yeah, totally. This might sound like a reasonably bold place to start, question wise, but my, it's so front of mind for me, one of my best mates' dads passed away on Friday morning, and it was really sudden, like really sudden.

And so So I've just been thinking about that for the last few days non -stop.

And I having been through that yourself with your mum that must be just, what a thing to go through.

It was... Mum got diagnosed with cancer seven years before she passed.

So I realised that I started grieving and mourning my mum when we got the diagnosis.

It was—my mum and I were so close it was almost unhealthy.

Like I went to—I'm not into really spiritual stuff, but I remember over the years I went to like some psychic and something—you know, some healer and they were like picked up the— My connection with mum was as if we were Siamese twins.

Wow. They said Siamese twins.

Two people, separate people did, yeah.

Two separate Siameses?

Two separate, yes. and I was like that easy.

It's like we were so codependent and she was my person.

And so it was like my mom and then Sam and my boys.

And Sam knew that he knew he was second to my partner Sam.

Yeah. And so when mom died he's like, Oh, Steven Bradbury, this.

Cause I turned to him, and said, you're my favourite person now.

Um, yeah. So then, you know, we thought she was going to get through it.

She had bowel cancer and then it just kept coming back and back, and we got to keep her at home and look after her at home.

But it was awful. I feel like, yeah, a big piece of me died.

Sorry. And we moved like we always lived in Melbourne and we've moved to Byron Bay because Melbourne's not home to me anymore.

And it's taken four years for Byron to start to feel like home and I was like, why am I so unsettled?

Why is nowhere home?

And I'm like, no one's home now, cause mum's not here.

Like she was always my home.

She is an amazing woman.

A love flex, yeah. She was just the best and it's weird. Like I've had another baby since she's passed and I'm like, how's she not seeing Otis?

I mean, it's so lucky to have a connection with your mum like that, but you and your mum were, it was, I don't know, it just felt different.

Yeah, it just was, it's just an awful thing to go through.

And now, you know, I see, you know, my dad getting older and friends, parents getting older — Hugh, like your friend's dad passed but so suddenly.

But we just feel like they're going to be here forever, you know, and they're just not.

I know that sounds so strange because we do know it but you can't grasp it until you lose one where you're like, shit, this is like a really limited time and we don't have them for long.

And sometimes you look at the phone and go, I can't be bothered answering this.

I was with a girlfriend the other day and her dad was calling, she's like, oh, and I said, one day that number is not going to show up.

Just pick it up. So did you talk to her about death?

Yeah I did. And I vividly remember sitting on the couch with her and her saying, I'm not scared of dying.

I just don't want to miss out on anything.

And I remember saying to her I can't do this without you and she was like you can you can, you're strong enough to do this and then I even spoke to her, I said what flowers do you think you want at the funeral and things like that you know and she's like you can decide.

I'll leave it to you.

But my sister and I laid on the bed with her before she kind of became kind of unconscious, you know, and I recorded it on my phone and we just chatted to her for, like, two hours.

And asked her everything, you know, like, where was your first job?

Like, who have you loved in your life?

Stuff like that. I will never listen to the recording, but it's there, you know.

You don't think you'll ever listen to?

No, I get shocked sometimes when you know videos and stuff pop up on your phone or photos it always takes my breath away and hearing her voice is really hard. It's getting easier.

It definitely is getting easier, it doesn't sting as much, but sometimes it still takes my breath away.

I'm like, she's not here.

Like what, it's weird. Feels like a lifetime ago, but also yesterday.

Do you reckon that when you're a kid you also felt that, like, independence is maybe not the right word, but that sort of feeling of like, I can't do it without you.

Was that always been...

Totally. Cause my parents separated when I was about five.

And dad's always done the best he can, but my mum was our main parent and she was my safety.

She made me always feel really safe.

And that's what you need as a kid is to feel safe.

Yeah. And then I imagine, like going, because you've had, when she passed away, you've had two kids.

So you're sort of just entering and I'm the last person in the stream that should talk about being a parent but sort of just entering that life of being a mum yourself.

I was still young. But they had, like my oldest had the most incredible bond with her.

And that was the hardest telling him, because he got it.

He was only six. But I remember, you know, there's things that you just vividly remember.

and I remember telling him and his reaction, but he would stay there a couple of times a week.

Like I used to call them bum chums, which I don't think that's correct at all.

We did. We used to go there bum chums, cause they were just inseparable.

So it was a real adjustment for the whole family.

And then I feel like I had to step up and go, okay, I've got to.

I do have to do this on my own.

I've got family and everyone, but not like my mom.

And it's kind of like I became an adult then, like I was, yeah.

Just shifted everything.

A few people say now that, and maybe this is not what you meant, but I've heard a few people say now that they didn't feel like an adult until their parents had passed away.

I don't know if that's a common feeling but...

Well, because they're at the head of the bus and then once they're gone, you're like, shit, I'm at the front of the bus now.

Yeah. So do you have a memory of the moment you first found out that your mum had cancer?

Yeah, I vividly remember.

It was Boxing Day. But I remember on Christmas Day thinking something's off here.

And I didn't know what.

You were with her on Christmas Day?

With her on Christmas Day, but she was incredible.

Like just normal mum but I think that bond, I'm like something's not right here.

and I called her that night and I said, Mom, what's going on?

Are you or David, my stepdad?

Is something going on there?

And she's like, no, no, everything's great.

And I was like, okay.

You could sense. I could sense it.

I knew something wasn't right.

I don't know what it was.

It was just a gut feeling.

And then the next day we were sitting out in mom's backyard and my son Back's was about, he would have been nearly one or he would have been one.

And mum said, um, and my sister and my stepsister were sitting there.

And she said, I have cancer that is in my bowel, my liver and my lung.

Phew. And I remember just getting up and running to the bathroom and literally being sick and passing out.

I remember thinking, I'm going to pass out.

And my Nan was alive then too and she came in and was just rubbing my back and crying.

And then I just went back out to mum and hugged her.

And then I just got online and I'm like, I'm gonna get to work now to find the best oncologist that I can find and to look up what I can do for her.

And I think that's when the ADHD kicked in and the hyper focus of we're gonna make this alright.

But that was a life -changing moment.

God, yes. You know how you can, there's not many times in life where you're like, whoa, this is life changing.

That was life changing, those few words changed everything.

I've actually, it's strange, it's been popping up in my head a lot recently.

Maybe after the loss of a bit from a mutual friend of ours, the father, the other day.

But I've been thinking a lot about how am I going to tell my kids one day especially as they're getting closer and closer to their grandparents and it's this beautiful relationship developing.

How am I gonna tell them one day, that must have been the hardest moment telling your son?

Yeah, it's one of those things that haunts me a little bit telling him because I'll never forget his face and his reaction And he was only six when mum died, but their bond was unbreakable, it was incredible.

And she was bringing the boys up with us.

It was very much her, Sam and I, bringing up the boys.

But I remember we were in the car, because I remember going I've got to tell him.

And this is before Mum had passed, so Mum was out of it.

It wasn't Mum anymore but she was still alive.

And so I remember we were in the car driving.

And I said to him, hey mate, and he had no idea she was sick either.

But I said, hey mate.

Nana is very unwell and she is going to die.

I didn't really beat around the bush with it.

Because, what do you say?

like, um, and I was holding his, his little hand.

I'm sorry. And he just looked at me and he said, No Mum, not Nana, not Nana.

And it was like the only person in the world, he didn't want to die with Nana.

And I just remember going, I've broken my boy's heart, like, I literally broke his heart telling him that, and then a few days later, Mum passed.

A few days later? Yeah, and I think because I'd told him already, the shock had gone from it, but I was like, Nanna has passed, and there were more tears but it wasn't that full on reaction And I was really surprised a 6 -year -old reacted like that.

He cried for a good hour, and I remember thinking, wow, this is really full -on and he's never spoken about my mom since.

I go, do you remember that?

Remember, Nana used to do that?

And he'll say yes. But it's like he has had to block it out.

Too painful for him.

Sorry. No. No, don't be.

Don't be. That is literally the hardest bit the whole thing was telling him.

Yeah, cool. When you said before about not feeling like Byron didn't feel like home for a while, it does now and Melbourne doesn't feel like home anymore.

Is that... I've haven't lost anyone like you have, but I imagine that I kind of, there would be a tinge of sadness when something started to feel happy again.

more like home again without them.

Is there a resistance to want it to feel like home or like a sadness that comes with it?

Yeah. It totally makes sense.

And I remember after I had Otis and mum had passed and we just moved to Byron Bay and that first six months of having him, I was the happiest I'd ever been and it was so strange.

And I said out loud to mum, Mum, I'm not surviving, I'm thriving.

And I've literally said it out loud, which I know sounds really cheesy, but I felt so happy and I couldn't believe I was that happy without her there.

And yeah, there was a bit of guilt as well.

Cause I'm like, you're missing out on this and you've probably never seen me this happy.

Like I was, yeah. And then that quickly passed.

After six months life kicked in with three boys and you know, different stuff going on.

But it was, yeah, it is a funny feeling when you do, yeah, they're past and you do feel happy or settled where they don't like, I'm like you've never seen my house that I live in and all this stuff Yeah, that would be so difficult and will be one day for all of us.

Yeah, which is true.

I said to my friend the other day, I'm like, you're just a sitting duck like I've been through it.

Now you're a sitting duck.

Yeah, you're right.

The other the thing that I think about someone I think about you months is like you are you're such an ambitious person, like career -wise.

And since I've known you, you've always been driven to achieve and do things, and you're one of those people who actually does them.

You're actually like, if you want to do something you go get it.

And then when your mum passed away, and then you became a mum, and that became a bigger part of your life, I guess I just wondered how your ambitions changed, if at all.

I was so obsessed with getting into radio, and that's where I know, like, I am diagnosed ADHD.

I look back on that and go, Oh, I was so hyper focused, so tunnel vision that there was no option but for me to get into radio.

And I moved to the country and did it.

And then we got our show.

And I just was like, this is all I want to do.

And I did everything I could to get on there.

I vividly remember asking, do you remember the Cage, that radio show?

I used to sometimes do the phones for them.

And I remember asking Bridget, G Cloe and JB if they do a demo with me.

Oh, it's so embarrassing now thinking about it.

Yeah, and jumped in the studio with them.

Oh you did, they said, yes?

Yeah, they said yes.

I was so generous and then I handed my demo to Mick Malloy to get feedback off Mick.

I was working behind scenes on his show.

Like I look and go, oh my God, I would never do that now, But that's sort of like the naivety, like that's such a benefit, the naivety.

Such a benefit. Because if I'd known how hard it would be, I would have given up.

And I also sent it to Kate Langbrook my demo, because I just loved Kate, who passed it on to our old boss, Todd Campbell, which I know is what helped get me my foot in the door.

So it was incredible when I had full circle of working with Kate.

When I sent you my demo, who helped me get the job.

to them working with, yeah for a couple of years.

So when you were, how old were you when you were that, when you were sort of working?

Probably 20, like pretty young.

And was radio always like, from like how young were you do you reckon?

I remember when I was about 11 saying to somebody, I want to be a disc jockey when I'm older.

Wow, that's really aging you.

I know. And they laughed at me.

Because you said disc jockey or because.

Yeah probably that.

But just it was such a ludicrous dream.

And I remember going, oh that's not possible then, but I remember when that kid laughed going, oh that's not, that's a silly dream then, and then I just guess I parked it.

But then I got a job doing the Black Thunder pilots, which was the best job.

Like the promotional vehicles that drive around for radio stations, hand out cokes, do barbeque, stuff like that.

And that was incredible.

And so I saw how radio shows worked and I started to do phones for, I did phones for Tony Martin's show, Get This and Mick Malloy's Tough Love and The Cage.

And I just saw how magical a radio show and team was, and I'm like, I wanna do that.

Yeah. So what kind of thing do you do for a demo?

Like if you had, like J .B.

and Bridget, you were close.

Like what do you do, what do you say to them?

Do you say, I'm just gonna talk and can you just pretend that we're on a radio show together?

Yeah, it was pretending we were we were doing a live show together.

So I'd just have content.

And I remember I spoke about the strippers to them.

I vividly remember, The Princes of the Night is a stripping show in Melbourne.

And I remember talking about going to that with my girlfriends.

Kind of like a man power.

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Like, that'd be a really hard thing to do.

It was so nervous. It was because they weren't big.

That was a big show.

Um, but it kind of helped, you know, and then Tony Martin was extremely generous.

He had me on as a guest. That was my first kind of touch into National Radio with Ed Cavalie.

And they had me on and I just couldn't believe they had me on.

It was wild. To do a little bit.

To do an hour with them.

Like they had guests every day.

And they invited me on to be a guest as Katie from The Phones.

That's who I was then.

And I was just like, this is awesome.

But it's funny when I look back at what I've done.

And the whole time since I started, I was like, I'm gonna get found out.

Like, this is too good to be true.

I had such hectic imposter syndrome that for a lot of it, I probably didn't enjoy it that much because I was like, this is gonna end.

I love this so much. And you know, all I'm doing, I'm not that interesting.

I'm not as good as, you know, a Langbrook or someone like that.

I'm not, I don't stand out.

And yeah, I just look back and go, wow, like I did do Sydney Breakfast Radio, but it's it doesn't feel like that to me.

It's almost like it was someone else because the whole time I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna end, it's all gonna end.

Yeah, because it could.

It could and it did, it has.

It could and it did.

But that is the kind of like cruel thing about any sort of freelance job, particularly in like a TV or radio where, on one hand, you can get treated really well for a little bit.

But then there's also this sort of unspoken thing of like, oh, it's so good having you here, but because it feels like there's a bit of bullshit going around, maybe a bit more than a bit, you know, just because you've seen people lose their jobs and people just get slashed and stuff, you know that if someone better comes in or your ratings drop for a second, You're gone.

You could be gone. It's my partner Sam's in radio as well and that's how we met, but every job I've lost in radio, I found out through him and he was at the opposition network, always.

Really? Yeah and it was, he would be like I've heard this because everyone knows they shuffle before they tell you.

So everyone knows what's going on before you, you know, so it's just - That's brutal, and then you're the last to know.

Yeah you're always the last to know.

And I just, when I did Chelsea our drive show finished and they said can you do Sydney breakfast?

And my gut was like, no, because I didn't want to move away from my mom.

And, um, breakfast hours are just hideous.

And I just was in my dream team with Ryan and Wippa.

So it was really, no. Anyway then of, of course I was like, okay, well I do have to take this.

They threw an offer at me that was so enticing that I'm like, okay, I'll do it.

I'll give it a crack.

And in that job, I lasted six months before, and the start, like you were saying, shelter, you know, you think you're the, the way they treat you.

They're like, oh my God, we're so happy to have you here.

And I had the head boss come and say, oh my God, this is amazing.

I haven't seen the boys like this.

They're so happy. And then six months later I fell pregnant and I also lost my job when I felt pregnant.

Okay. So let's talk about, let's talk about it because I, I, I, this is a thing that I, I don't know if I've ever properly spoken to you in detail about this happening because it feels shocking and it's kind of like the thing that you hear happening to women all the time but it seemed so clear that this is the reason why.

And it was like the show wasn't, we didn't mesh well as a show like American duals as performers are incredible but the three of us weren't a great combo.

Which often happens in radio because people just get put together.

But it was you don't normally get let go six months into a contract especially if a two year contract.

Um, and yeah, so it was six months in and I felt pregnant and I got really sick and you know, the first few weeks and I said, you know, so I had to take a bit of time off and it was too early to tell them because it was...

Sorry this was your first is that?

My first, baby. Yeah, so I was like 29 -30 and it was too early to tell them because it was about four weeks in I hadn't told any of my family, but I was so sick, so I had to take a few days off work here and there.

And then it got to the point where they're like, you know, you've got to come back.

Like, what's going on?

So I had to tell them that I was pregnant.

So I told my bosses before I told my family, and the first thing my boss at the time said was, because I'd had time off, make sure you are ready to come back because I know someone who's miscarried.

So it started, yeah, there was no congratulations.

In his mind, he'd wanted me gone when he found out I was pregnant.

So I was like, wow, this is wild.

And I got pulled into an office with three of my bosses, three male bosses, a bit similar to the situation now.

Um, yeah, and just...

You're not going to lose your job here.

Yeah, okay. Thanks.

Basically not congratulated by any of them.

It was also said to me, we don't want you to run any of your own stuff.

Just support the boys, the audience is not used to you being on anymore.

So when you say, run your own stuff, tell your own stories.

Tell my own stories.

I was then back on air but wasn't to run yet.

Tell any of my own stories.

I was there to support American Duels as the token girl because I'd had a couple of weeks off.

To giggle in the background.

To giggle in the background and I'm like, they want me gone.

It's so obvious, but they're going to have to push me out.

I'm not walking away from this contract.

And then it got to mid -year and my manager called and said, they want you out of the show.

And my first reaction was, this is the best news I've heard. And why is that?

Because it was just, I was surrounded by men that didn't want me there.

But when they want you out of the show, but that didn't mean they could take away you contract.

So I got a year and a half gardening leave, they call it.

Paid for a year and a half, but I was also really… So gardening leave is where you continue to get paid but you can't go and do any other jobs.

Yeah. I couldn't go to any other networks.

I couldn't do any of that.

But, you know, I was having a new baby so it didn't really matter.

But I also felt like I was really new in the industry and I was really scared that God, this is it.

I'm not going to get another gig now.

I've got a baby and it's done.

um, and that's when I started my own business show and tell, cause I'm like, I need to create my own staff space for women that I can control and run.

You think you would have started show cause show and tell is incredible and it was kind of pretty revolutionary, I think at the time.

Like there wasn't a lot of this stuff, like what show and tell does that wasn't, do you think it was a, whether unconscious or not, but a response to what happened to you?

I think so. I wouldn't have done it.

I wouldn't have had the time and I just wanted to work with women at that stage I was just exhausted by being around really toxic masculinity and I also looked back and realised I couldn't hold my own in those rooms. I didn't have the confidence to go that's really wrong or no that's not okay you talk to me like that, so I created Show and Tell which was just where I'd interview well -known women.

They'd literally come and sit on my couch and we'd set up a camera on the baby's high chair and film them just really relaxed and it just created a really nice space for people to go and connect and watch these videos of you know kind of not too similar to this where people would just open up about their life and then we moved into a podcast but I didn't have to rely on anyone saying yes you have a job.

Like, no you don't have a job.

I just needed that freedom and to be your self -esteem going through a process like that, or being in an environment like that, what did it do to your self -esteem?

It probably knocked it a fair bit.

I've always had kind of two sides to myself where I'm like, you're good at this, you can do this.

Like you've worked hard, you should be here, this is your role.

And then the other side of, oh my God, you're not good enough.

Yeah, there was always kind of two things at play there for me.

And I think there still is with lot of things.

The first year I wasn't doing radio, I had like a bit of an identity crisis because I was so wrapped up in like, you work is so much of your purpose and your identity.

And I was like, who am I if I'm not doing radio?

Because I've, I've been recently thinking so much about a similar thing, whereas like, I've got this, there's this sort of voice in my head, which I can't, even though I know that the voice is wrong.

I often believe it.

And the voice says, no one will wanna spend time with you.

No one will wanna be in your life if you're not doing something impressive.

And it's like something I'm trying to get through because I know that's not true.

I know the people who love me love me no matter what I'm doing.

But there's this sort of nagging voice that just says like, If this, if the perfect stop or if you don't get a show or if you don't do something impressive publicly then people will just not be interested in you.

I totally get that.

I found it really hard to, you know, when you have to write out what your occupation is.

And like so many places when we fill out a form, ask what your occupation is.

Comedian. Oh no, don't do that.

No, don't do that. But I've really struggled to go, well what am I now?

And so often I'll just write mum, even though, you know, I am a podcaster and stuff, but I'm like, I just, I don't know, I found that really hard. And I'm like, shit, I'm nothing now.

I have felt like that and felt embarrassed because, you know, when I used to tell people, like radio is daggy.

It's a daggy medium.

But I always felt really proud saying, I'm in radio because people, it's a different job.

So people would be bit excited.

Yeah. And you made celebrities and, yeah.

And that people were impressed by it.

And I'm like, no one's really impressed anymore.

Like I have those thoughts, you know?

And I have really struggled with it at times.

And I also really, I've always been really independent with my money.

I think that was growing up with a single mum.

I'm like, I'm never gonna be in a situation where I have to rely on a man and if, you know, anything happens I wanna be able to stand on my own two feet.

In the last two years, I haven't made a cent and that's really thrown me as well.

That's been hard to, you know, and I've got, I think a lot of women have this but I've got a separate bank account, Sam my partner's bank account I have full access to but I've got a secret bank account.

Does he know about it?

He knows about it, but he doesn't have access to it and there's not much in it but it still makes me feel like it's there if I need like and it would last me literally three nights if I was to leave but at the same time it still gives, it's mine.

When you were talking about the imposter syndrome before, I'm going back a bit, but it's sort and continuing through a lot of the stuff you said.

How much or have you thought much about how much of that imposter syndrome is your own internal kind of like dialogue and brain versus the industry itself that you've chosen to be a part of?

Because I - it sounds like with that, the threat of like the lack of an opportunity for women when you're coming up, and I'm sure it's still not anywhere close to being even now.

And then the confirmation of how you became a problem.

I'm using the word problem because I'm sure that's how I felt at the time when you became pregnant.

The confirmation of, oh yeah, they can just take it away at any point.

Yeah. Do you think it's more industry or more internal?

Look, it'd be a mix, but I think it is more internal.

Yeah. Okay. I think...

It was always there.

It was always there and I do have really bad anxiety.

I've always had bad anxiety and when I look back at a kid I'm like oh God I was really anxious and I think that plays into it too because you just think so much and you overthink and overanalyse and speaking of mental health I also remember Chelsea we got Drive Radio together and it was my ultimate to work with you and Wippa and I got depression for the first time and it was so weird because I'm like I've got my ultimate job and on paper everything's amazing and it was about halfway through the first year I started to get really depressed and I had to go on medication and I started seeing a psych

and I remember saying to you guys look I'm going on antidepressants I'm feeling really depressed and you were just amazing.

You were just like you were here months if you need and it kind of was a we're all here for you now it's just get back to work.

It was beautiful. So Whippa went through the same thing at the same time?

He did. Yeah, he did.

Yeah, I just do remember Whippa in a really bad place.

It was kind of like we tag teamed, and so we were able to be there for each other when we weren't in a good place.

But it was our environment, you know, you could bring whatever you wanted to work.

It was if you're not good, you're not good.

If you're having a good day, you're having a good day.

And then there were Shelty just so, just straightie 180 with his mental health just there, the backbone.

I mean the other big part and the thing that you struggled with a lot while we were doing the show was migraines.

And I know you still struggle with them a lot now.

Yup. And at the time I just thought migraines were bad headaches.

Yes. I just thought like, oh migraine is like, Oh, she's had a, she's got a really bad headache.

So, um, so Monti, you know, Monti had to like sometimes it would be on air in like an hour and you'd have to go and like lie down in one of the dark studios for like half an hour an hour and you just had to take yourself out of the mix.

Sometimes you have to miss shows and that was all part of it.

But I didn't really understand the how debilitating migraines could be.

I spent 90 % of last year in bed.

Which was really hard having three kids.

Oh my gosh . It's like because I had had prevention medication and then I'd have something when I felt a migraine coming on and that would work and then it was like one month it all stopped.

It just, it's like my body just rejected everything and nothing would work.

And I had the most hectic migraines that would sometimes last up to six weeks.

I would be in bed, to the point Sam would have to take time off work.

And I remember one day he said, I think we need to get a carer.

And I'm like, shit, I'm really chronically ill.

A carer for you. Yeah.

I have a chronic illness and it's so invisible.

And people think it's a headache and I'm here and I cannot leave my room.

And it, yeah, most people don't really understand it.

Can you explain it?

It's so different for everyone, but mine's just like, I get really dizzy.

It's like a vice around my head.

I can't, because I'm so dizzy, I can't lay still so I just have to flip from side to side constantly.

So sleeping is really hard. Sleeping's hard and then you just lay in a dark room, you've got to close it off and lay in a dark room.

I can't get up. That's why Sam had to take time off work because I couldn't even get up and get water.

And then I've got three kids who all have sprinklings of neurodivergency who need full on parenting and Sam's doing it all on his own, I just couldn't move and I ended up in hospital all the time.

And I've got a good girlfriend who's got MS and endo and she was like, you're so chronically ill, and she is too.

And even though it's so separate and different, our illnesses, we talk to each other all the time and just vent because so lonely being so chronically sick when people, when it's so hidden.

And so we would just chat nonstop and be like oh my God, there has to be so many people suffering like this.

And 49 % of the population have a chronic illness, a hidden chronic illness.

A majority of those are women as well.

But everyone, I call them silent sufferers Because when I started to speak about it, so many people would message me and go, Oh my God, I've got this, or my kids got this and I feel so alone.

It was such a huge amount of people out there, and I'm like, Oh my God, it's just, it's so debilitating.

Even if I wanted to have worked, I couldn't have because I just couldn't get out of bed.

Like I literally couldn't get out of bed.

I mean, and I promise you, I'm not trying to make you cry, but whenever I get sick, I call my mum, and literally… I don't know why sometimes, like if I get a cold, I call my mum.

Yeah, totally. All you want is your mum when you're sick.

It's like when you're vomiting, you want your mum to hold your hair back, you know?

Yeah. And we know, obviously, how close you and your mum were.

And so, then last year, I mean, to be in bed, 90 % of the time, of course, all you want is someone...

If Sam saying we need to get a care, I don't know if you're thinking, but it's like I need mum.

Oh, I just needed mum so badly because no one cares for you.

Like your mum does, you know.

But also, it was so challenging for Sam.

And that's the thing.

people with chronic illnesses, they're partners or, you know, their family members go through so much as well because Sam would just have to compartmentalise and he was constantly like, I'm so sorry, I can't nurture you more, but I've just got to get this stuff done.

Like I have to, if I let in what's actually going on, we're both going down.

And so he had just, just take over everything.

Yeah. So anyway, this girlfriend and I deployed my new podcast, it's called I Chronic, where we basically just talk about chronic illnesses.

which has been really cathartic.

I bet. Yeah and has resonated with so many people which is a bit depressing but it also makes you feel less alone.

Yeah, I imagine and less misunderstood.

Yeah it is and people are like oh you know I'm really sorry that you're going through this and what can I do and people are beautiful but no one can get it.

It is, it's really our world became really small.

And it was just, yeah, I feel like I was just locked in a little cave for nearly a year.

So if that was last year, what's changed?

Have you changed something to make it or is it just you can't control it?

I can't control it but I did go into hospital for a week and have something called a Lignacane infusion which is like they just drip local anesthetic into you really slowly and that's broken the cycle for me but I'm living in constant anxiety because it's not a permanent thing.

They're like this could last a month, could last two months and then I'm like oh god they're going to come back at some point and I just don't know when to.

Yeah. To never really know that you can just like relax and know that you can make forward plan things.

Yeah. It was so strange like not being able to plan a thing like think of your diary.

I had nothing in there except appointments.

If somebody would say, can we go out for, you know, do you want to go out for a walk or something I'd be like, I can't.

Or if there was, you know, a kid's school event coming up, I'm like, well, I'm not going to that.

There was just nothing written in my diary.

Yeah, I just couldn't because I hate having to cancel, which I've had to cancel on you guys once before, because I was had a migraine, you know, so I just am like, I'm not booking anything in anymore.

and I would lie a lot because of I felt really embarrassed, which I know doesn't make sense from an outsider, but it is embarrassing being unwell all the time.

And so I would say, can you come here?

And I'd be like, no, sorry, I gotta work or the boys have got something on.

But really, I was just in bed.

But do you think though I mean, cause I don't I don't know if all I don't know.

But if you're if someone was having an invisible illness, is that more embarrassing than having like, you know, if someone's got a physical illness or something where it's very clear, it's like everyone would be instantly understanding in the same way that people are very understanding of parents when they go like I have to actually go now because I've got the, you know, people are like, oh, of course we'll go, but to have an invisible illness and particularly something like a migraine, which is so misunderstood, people do because I don't know, like I before I met, before I knew you, my idea of migraines

was just like, it's just a it's just a It was a bad headache.

And so it's like no, I'll be all right.

Get over it. Yeah, soldier on.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think, yeah, it's, it's funny too, because, because they're on and off migraines.

The days I'm good, I'm good.

So you would never know, you know, but I was over at the park with my kid the other day, so I know, I hate parks so much. Oh, playgrounds.

Yeah. I don't understand.

Oh, God. Anyway, so I'm at the park.

I mean, I've grown out of it, but I know that slides are a bit small for me now.

Why do people keep going?

Yeah. So I was over at the park and I bumped into one of the school dads and I'd been literally being in bed for six weeks.

And that's how I dropped a bit of white and I'd put on a bit of fake tan the night before, that's my thing to make me feel better because I'm so pale.

And I was over at the park and he's like, hi God, you've never looked better.

And I was like, are you joking?

I thought he was being sarcastic like he must've heard how sick I am.

And I just thought, wow.

And I had to say, I said I've never been sicker in my life, but I just made me realize because he's so invisible no one can see it.

And I look better because I've dropped weight, people think you look good when you've dropped weight, but I dropped weight because I can't eat when I'm sick.

You're literally wearing a mask, a fake tan mask.

Yeah, it is masking.

Sometimes feel like I'm constantly masking Cause people don't care that much either.

I know why I don't when someone's cook, I'm like, I'm sorry for you.

But then I go on with my life.

You know what I mean?

When, when Sam suggested that, that you guys should get a carer for you, how did it actually.

Feel like, what were you feeling when that became like the reality?

Yeah, it was when he first said it, I was like, Oh, he's joking.

Yeah. But then I thought about it, and I was like, he's right.

And that was, I don't know, almost a bit like a failure.

Because he said it, but also there's no way we could afford a carer.

You know what I mean?

So it made me feel guilty for him that there's so much pressure on you to be my carer, plus work full time, plus look after the kids.

It felt awful. And not by him, you know, meaning to make me feel awful, but I was like, he's right.

Like, this can't go on like this, and that, thank god we found a solution, like something that's cut the cycle, so we didn't have to go down that path.

But yeah, for a while there, it was looking like we're going to have to get help in just to look after me, which as a 43 year old, you know, being active and done a heap of That was pretty full on, it was confronting.

Yeah, it's sort of the, I guess that's a thing that, like embarrassingly, I don't really even think about when adults are so sick and they need a carer because it makes you from the outside, you guys, oh, that makes sense because you need help.

And so there's a carer to help you with things that you can't do on your own.

But to be the person who needs the help, I never really think about that, Like how hard that would be.

As in my mind, I'm like, that's ridiculous.

But then, I'm like, no, you've actually been in bed for six weeks.

Like you haven't left bed for six weeks.

Like that's not normal.

Like you can't function through life.

If there was an end date of going, well, this is gonna end, on this day, we can pull through.

But there's no end date.

There was no end date with it.

You didn't know. It could end tomorrow.

It could end in five months.

And the fact that every day I'd wake up and go, oh, it's still there.

I can't get up. And I could just see Sam's face just deflate.

I'm like, it's easy.

So then I just stopped telling him, and I just said, please stop asking how I am.

I'm going to tell you and I'm good.

You're diagnosed ADHD.

Yeah. What sort of ADHD?

I'm combination. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And the podcast you guys did on ADHD a while ago, I've got goosebumps now.

Yeah. It was so brilliant.

I've never heard ADHD explained clearer and I've never related to it more.

And my middle child is very ADHD.

Like I know you're either ADHD or not.

Same as if you're on the spectrum or not.

You know, some people are like, oh he's very autistic.

It's like, no, you're either autistic or you're not.

You've either got ADHD or you or you don't.

But it just resonated with me so much. How does ADHD, like, looking back on your life since you discovered, that's in your life?

And so when were you diagnosed as one?

I was diagnosed when only about three years ago.

Right. But I look back, I was always kicked out of class for talking.

I could I found schoolwork really challenging if it was boring, like the subjects I was good at, I could do the other ones were, it was literally impossible for me.

It feels like some things are impossible to do, even though for you it might be really easy.

But reading instructions, like even for today, I was like, make sure I had to force myself to read it.

It's like reading things is really challenging.

Like getting the times right, so I was like, make sure it's eleven o 'clock and, you know, just I have to really force myself to look at specific details.

Yeah. I'll just read the first line and then I think I've got it.

But I don't. Yeah. But you're not a late person, I wouldn't say, in my experience.

I've got time blindness, hecticly.

Like before I came today, my boys like let's play a game of pool.

So we were playing pool and then I went and did my hair.

And then I'm driving a friend's car who I don't know how to, I don't know how to drive that car.

So I should have been really in the car a lot earlier than I was.

But I do that all the time.

I I think I can fit a million things into ten minutes.

Yeah, yeah. It's so strange.

But I also think, yeah, the hyper focus has really worked for me in a lot of ways because I do feel like if I set my mind on something I can kind of make it happen.

But it has also created huge anxiety for me and hard to focus.

It's like it's a real double -edged sword. so when people say, oh, it's your super power, that's so gas lighting, it's like, no, it's not.

It does make things a lot harder.

So was it through your kids' journey that then you started to look at yourself as being possibly neurodivergent?

Was there a pretty strong, like, was it as simple as that?

Yeah, I think for most adults when they find out they're neurodivergent is because of their kids.

for anyone who's neurodivergent or got neurodivergent kids, there's an incredible lady called Christie Forbes.

Not sure if you've come across her Hugh, but she's incredible.

And she's neurodivergent, got five neurodivergent kids.

But she was like, when I found out my kids were, I did her courses and stuff like that.

And she was the one saying, it comes from somewhere, like it's so hereditary and I was like okay and then I had a beautiful friend who's neurodivergent who said you got to get yourself tested I was like shit really because you just yourself you don't know any different and but it was also yet looking at them especially my middle child who's so ADHD I'm like Oh God he drives me bonkers he's me like so that's what put me on the path of getting diagnosed.

And I went to a psychiatrist and he's like, yes, you're ADHD.

And I was like, okay.

And then I tried the stimulants.

No medication worked for me.

Like none. Didn't even touch the sides.

I'm just not wired properly.

Like something in my body does not work with medication properly.

But it didn't do anything to me, which is also a sign, you know, if you get really speedy and stuff, it's not right for you.

But I was I was like, he's wrong.

Cause every woman was coming out diagnosed with ADHD too.

I'm like, anyone that walks into his office comes out ADHD.

So I went and saw a second.

I got a second opinion and within two seconds, he's like, you're ADHD.

I'm like, shit. But it was, it wasn't one of those huge reliefs for me.

You know, some people like, I was so relieved, but I was just kinda like, yeah, well it makes sense.

It's not, it doesn't scare me.

But then I looked back on a heap of things.

I'm like, oh my God.

I so am so obvious now.

Does it allow you to have a bit more compassion for yourself?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah a little bit.

Um, I just notice when I do things.

It's maybe not compassion, but it's more going, oh, that's because of the ADHD.

Just better understanding.

Better understanding.

And yeah, noticing things more where I used to just assume maybe everyone was like that or, um.

I've always had this story that I'm dumb, which I know a lot of ADHD people do.

And I still do to an extent.

Yeah, I still do. I just don't feel...

I feel like I'm really good at certain things and clever in certain ways, but I don't feel hugely intelligent.

I don't feel... You know when people are just kind of chatting about worldly news and stuff like that.

I'm like, I got no interest there, I haven't read about that.

I don't know what's going on there.

I've kind of always had that.

And now I realise, oh, that's ADHD.

It's because I can't really focus on things I'm not interested in.

And it's not that I'm dumb, it's that I find doing certain things just really hard. That makes complete sense.

So just, I guess we're still neurodivergence here.

But I was back and recently on the podcast about being a parent of a neurodivergent child, and I realized that is actually 100 % of the reason that I've stopped drinking.

It's been the last couple of years now, and it was never a conscious thing.

It was just, I find it requires 100 % of your mental, emotional, and physical energy to parent a child who is neurodivergent, and that's why I stopped drinking, but I'm just get out of bed that is hard for anyone, but then also having the responsibility of parenting.

You said there's a sprinkling of neurodivergence across your three kids.

There's a large sprinkling there.

I like a large sprinkling.

That, I mean, it must be so hard. I mean, that's even, I feel stupid even saying that.

It must be fucking impossible.

Sometimes it feels like that.

But you know, of course they're beautiful boys and I love them a lot, but they have really different needs, and opposite needs.

And so it's full -time, and it takes more than two people to do it, too.

I'm like, we need a parent for every one of these kids, and we don't have that.

And then we're down to one man down with me in bed, and it all falls on Sam.

Yeah, it's really hard. And also because I'm neurodivergent too, I hate the word, but it triggers me a lot.

like I see things in them, or you know my capacity is so low that I'll I I can't parent how I want to parent.

It's really awful. But you have a vision don't you of how, what kind of parent you'll be.

And it's not, you don't even say it, you don't write it down.

But you have a vision.

You had a feeling of how you'll be as a parent.

And it's you do not get that.

No, and I've had to really stop comparing our family to other families because I see families do really simple everyday things.

And I'm like, my family can't do that because it doesn't work for the boys, their capacity might be low or they might have anxiety and that will really flare it up and it's not worth it for us to attempt those kinds of things.

but sometimes really basic things, where I'm like, I don't really wanna be able to do that.

But that's been our biggest thing for Sam and I, having neurodivergent kids is saying, we've got to run our own race here.

And if they're on screen time for five hours a day, they're on screen time for five hours a day.

Where a lot of other families would never do that.

It's like, how our families are screen free family and I just feel like a stab of jealousy.

and that happens so many times in a day that I have to constantly work on not comparing and just going this is how our family works and if we don't have family dinners, we don't have family dinners because we can't all sit here without the boys kicking off.

Yeah and you're kind of...

I mean Byron's beautiful but you're also kind of in the mecca of like perfect looking families.

Yeah it's so true. It is true.

I feel like I will never be free of that, comparing to other families, because I feel like every stage will bring another thing I'm comparing it to.

So like, at a young age, it was just for us, it was we can't go there, because there'll be a meltdown and and it's gonna be huge and it'll upset the other kids.

But then the older they get, I'm sure there will be, you know, we tried to do Auskick and it just it didn't work.

Like it was a very public failure and so I can't help it.

We want to drive past families doing OzKick.

I'm just so jealous of that and just think, gosh, I'd love for us to be able to do that.

I have no doubt when they get all the things that we're unable to do and I just I can't see myself ever being able to drive past things that I would love to do as a family and go, oh that's okay.

I just don't see myself ever being free of that.

No, I don't really see myself being free of that either, because you do.

You have a... and you want that for your kids, too.

Like, you know, I see the limits of, you know, what my eldest, he's always suffered with anxiety and I see the things he misses out on because it's too much for him to do things.

And, you know, sometimes we're like, is he just being a lazy teen or is that really too much for him to do?

And that's also such a head fuck as a parent with neurodivergent kids, because you don't know what's...

them just being typical kids or what's too much for them?

– Do you find that huge?

– Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

The battle for us is a bit different now, it's just like around what they're eating.

– That's like the...

– Oh, the eating. Because I know...

Yeah, I mean this is the most sugary thing of all time, that you insist on eating and will not eat anything else.

Am I being weak by giving in here or is this...

because I know that sugar is a very big thing for them...

like it is for most kids, but I just don't know so often.

I'm like, am I being a terrible parent here?

The amount of times I say to myself, I think I'm a really bad parent.

That's what I just come back to all the time.

I think I'm really bad, I'm trying so hard, but I just think I'm so bad.

Because anyone watching externally would go, you are, and you get watched so often, from people watching, you go, and that is terrible what you're doing.

But just like, I don't know how else to do this, I don't know how to get us out of this situation, for example.

Yeah. And I know what you mean, but you're so far from a terrible parent.

I know you know that deep down, but that's, yeah.

Our self -talk is, is so hideous to us.

And I think that when you've got challenging kids, we have to be so much kinder to ourselves.

Like I'm constantly, Sam and I constantly like we're doing the best we can do.

Like they are, um, really loved and well looked after and they do have fun and they're awesome in in so many ways, but yeah, they've got their extra challenges.

But yeah, but I do, I know what you mean like the other day, Sam had an intervention with me where he's like, you have got to stop talking to the boys like that, because I get so frustrated and often my capacity so low because I'm unwell, that I just go for the yell, like straight away.

And it sounds like your relationship with them is getting damaged.

And I'm like shit, I said, you're right.

And I hear my eldest talk like that to my middle child.

And I'm like, she was just mirroring me.

But it's so hard when you've got such low capacity to be, get down on their level, and, look them in the eye.

To Lael Stone them.

I listen to her and I'm like, God, I'm so far from that.

But you know, it's, we're just doing the best we can do.

Cause it's not easy.

It's not easy for anyone, Josh.

I'm sure it's not easy for you either, having typical kids.

Well, it's not but at least the general advice, I feel like the general parenting advice and stuff out there does work a lot of the time.

So I do feel like it might not work every time but it does work sometimes and and it's like, well, that worked that time.

But I see... I guess for us, it's the opposite.

Most of the time it doesn't work but sometimes it does.

Yeah. Exactly. So like, yeah, it's challenging, but it's, it's like, it's challenging and a completely different.

And for me personally, and looking at you guys, Hugh and Penny's parenting, I can't speak for you guys cause I've never seen you and Sam parenting, but we're pretty brilliant.

Yeah. It's, it just doesn't seem like it seems like the most minute challenge in the world compared to what it seems like for you guys.

And yeah, it breaks my heart to hear you say that about yourself.

Because I know it's not true, but I also imagined that if I was in your situation, I'd think it every second of every day.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is.

Very much so. It's like, you know I chat to Sam about it, a lot of us is, you know.

And it's just like the amount of times you go, How the fuck are we here?

Like, how is this happening right now?

How am I in this situation?

Like, I didn't even know this was, I didn't know a situation get this heartbreaking or this challenging or this.

It was like every day, like you go to bed and you're like, oh I've survived that.

Just, which why I just think about you with the chronic illness, like I just don't understand it's just unbelievable.

You are so resilient, you are so resilient to, to be, you know, you're still going like you are, it's amazing.

I also think what's our choice though, Hugh, do you know what I mean?

Like, you know, and, like, and thank you for that.

But I also, I'm like there's, we don't have any choice.

We've got to, these little humans that we've got to help mould and grow and have good lives because we're their parents, you know?

And when it gets too hard and you feel so trapped sometimes, but we've got no choice either.

It's like, you got to keep going.

It's the same as when mum was passing.

It's like, people are like, you're so strong.

It's like, well, I don't have any option.

Like we've just got to keep going and just I also think as they get older, it gets easier because I know where you're at right now.

And I know you're in hell because we've been to hell and back, but we are back.

And not every day is perfect, but we have, I don't know if this is helpful hearing it, but we have a little boy now who has a job and is active with friends and he's playing soccer and this was a kid who couldn't leave the front door for nearly years.

Oh that's extremely, I mean that's incredible hope.

Yeah I think as they get older and mature and as parents pulling away those expectations we have for them to be typical and give them you know, change our whole environment to cater for them, it moulds them into being able to be really awesome people and I know that your kids are really awesome, but I mean in terms of it not being as heartbreaking and it's terrifying what the next day is going to be.

Like you might feel like just now I can feel my nervous system.

I can let go a bit now.

Just now though. I know when you're in it because, as I said, when we were in the thick of things I said to Sam, I just wish there was an end date like I could do this if we knew there was an end date But because there's no end date and you've just got to keep going and going and facing up to whatever you're presented with the next day.

It's just so challenging.

Do you think he when you say he became more mature and it became easier when he's more mature, do you think is, do you think that part of that is sort of becoming more self -aware?

Yeah. And I also think, yes, cause you just kind of are.

And, but he, we've also really invested in professional help for him.

And luckily he's always been really open to it.

And so if kind of a problem comes up, we'll say, can we work on this, this week?

And, you know, help him with that.

But I do think it is, has been, us not putting pressure on him, to do things that he really can't do.

Like, for example, my sister was taking them into the city today and he said, I don't want to go mum.

And again, I'm like, are you just being a lazy teen?

Or can you not go? And I thought about it I'm like, the city is really busy.

You're gonna go on public transport.

there's so much going on there.

That's too overwhelming for him, so I'm not going to push him to do that.

Otherwise, he's going to be laying down for two days.

It's just so much more exhausting being neurodivergent because you just move at such a faster pace, you know?

And also, as a parent of a neurodivergent kid, you've got to constantly think two steps ahead and analyze what's going to happen next?

Is this going to happen?

Okay, what's the consequence for this?

Or when Sam and I go anywhere now, it's like, okay, if things go bad, let's just go, let's just leave. Like where we before they were diagnosed, we never thought like that it's kind of like a before diagnosis and after diagnosis life for us.

And Monty you were saying before that you've had anxiety yourself.

Is that right? That I mean, that always needing to be a few like thinking of the worst possible scenario and thinking as a parent ahead, that's kind of what anxiety is.

It totally is what anxiety is.

and then you have to be leaning into that and listening to that voice for the betterment of your children and the situation but also that's gotta be so hard for you.

Yeah, it is hard, but it's also, there is sometimes a difference between anxiety and forward planning and I think I've got better with that and thought of, you know if we're going to somebody's house, if this happens or this happens or this happens, let's just pull the pin or maybe we just take one kid to this activity or so I yes like it can make my anxiety worse usually when it happens you know if it comes true but it's more having to really forward plan for for every activity yeah okay I also think it's worth saying and I I am no expert but I think you you jokingly said that you and Sam were perfect

or you're incredible parents before.

But I think that things only get better through, like things have gotten easier not just because of the maturity and incredible strength and brilliance of your children but also because of the amount of, incredible amount of work that you guys would have put in over the years.

And I look at you and Penny as well and I think it's like with how much you must feel like you're failing I think it's worth patting yourselves on the able to thrive in the world more and more without the work that you guys are doing and the work that you've put in and how the millions of invisible things that you've done that no one else sees.

It's pretty remarkable.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's incredible.

Well. No you're going to make me cry.

Well, I will. No you lost. Josh made me cry first. I don't wanna jump on this bandwagon!

I don't... like I feel like I could tell you, I could tell you this like, off the podcast. But sometimes these things are kind of easy to say on the podcast. Yeah.

Isn't it funny, I always feel more comfortable on mike talking to people then off.

That's so sick. Yeah, I think it's because of the praise that I might get But genuinely, I like knowing your whole like what you've like, not even just dealt with, but what you've achieved alongside everything you've done.

I'm so in awe of you.

Like of what you're able, you're not crying yet.

What else can I say?

I'll take the chance.

I can't, I just can't believe what you've done.

I can't believe it it's just it's just it's just it's it's amazing it's just amazing yep yeah thanks shelter I feel it's funny I feel really uncomfortable you saying that I know I know I just um I also and I know you're not meaning dad at all I'm not crying by the way so he didn't win but um I also don't like I feel I think we don't share a lot and I know I've shared a lot today and when we've you know talked about today what I have been through, I'm like fuck a lot of it's pretty grim, but I don't want to be known as that person.

You know, I don't want to be known as the mum who's got the challenging kids, so I can't come to a lot of things.

I don't want to be known as the sick woman.

Yeah, I don't want to be known as those things because there is so much more to me than that.

Totally. Yeah, I know what you mean.

But I feel like And I think that has dominated quite a few of the last years that that's how I I'm starting to think a bit too.

And I don't want to I don't want to lose my spark in all of that.

If it helps, we can cut out all the bits where you talk about your struggles, and this podcast. And it'll be literally two minutes long!

Shit! Is this the grimmest one you've ever done?

No, not at all. To me, it's like, one of the most inspiring.

It's like, to me, it's just like a picture of resilience and strength.

That's what it is. Like, I, that's who you are, like incredibly strong person who is so resilient and despite all the things that's happened, like you walked in here just with a bigger smile and made us laugh so much, you're not a comedian, but just so full of life and that's, that's who you are.

But like, yeah. I think during this, like Sam and I have still been able to laugh, which has been incredible.

Like he still makes me, probably second to you Shelts, the person that makes me laugh the most. Always number two.

Always number two. He hasn't Steven Bradbury'd this one yet.

But we still managed to laugh.

And sometimes when things are really fucked we laugh because it's like, well, you just got to.

We've had to become such a thick team to get through this and so many couples break up and I get it.

But is that a new thing you've had to kind of accept, learn to be like, to rely on him more?

Yeah, it has been. And I, especially with the money thing, and I know people don't talk about money because it just feels icky, but I hate that he brings in all the money.

I don't like it. I don't like, you know, and he would never question what I buy, but I am conscious when I buy things because I'm like, well, this isn't essential for our family.

And we're a one income family now where we're always a two income family.

So me getting a pair of golden goose is not essential, but I want those bloody golden goose.

What's a golden goose?

Oh they're very fancy shoes, Shelby, pricey fancy shoes.

But I, um, yeah, I don't like that he will see that on the statement.

It's ridiculous because he doesn't care, but I just, I don't like that feeling and I have in so many ways.

And he would just be even shocked that I would think or feel like that, but so emotionally dependent on him now.

And so financially dependent on him.

Yeah, it's been a huge adjustment, but, you know him like he's incredible.

like so incredible.

That's probably made it easier because it's never ever been used against me.

God, he's most likely on the bench press right now.

So hello, Sam. Yeah, probably.

He probably is. All he had, his thing is mind to get through is what other drugs are offered by the psychiatrist. His, is if I go to the gym or for a run, he like you, he can get through his.

It's just a better time so your message will be, hey mate, just listen to so -and -so podcast. I was on the bench press when you're on the bench press a lot.

He really wants to be on the bench press.

Could have just said just listen to this episode.

I just listened to this episode.

P .S. was also benching while I was listening.

So tell everyone. Well, I did.

Exactly. Mants, that was...

totally sick. Great.

And thanks so much for having me on.

Like I so just love what you guys do.

Which I know every guest he comes in probably says that.

But it's so important having three guys talk about what you talk about and sharing and being so vulnerable.

Like it's just, it's incredible.

So thank you for what you do.

And thanks for having me on.

I had a huge imposter syndrome coming in here as, again.

But I've loved it, so thank you.

Well, we love you. We think you're amazing.

And yeah, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks. Thanks, Mons.

What a woman. I love that woman.

I mean, not in love with her, but you know, that came on pretty strong.

But she's so great.

She's so great. Yeah.

That is quite a headline if you've just announced it.

You're in love with Monty.

I'm in love with that woman.

Yeah. What a time to announce it.

That's a good thing for us to discuss as the reflection of the Internet.

Probably never been a better time to announce it.

No, I'm not in love with Monty, but I do love her.

Good clarification.

There was one thing that stood out to me from that conversation.

Well, there's many things that really stood out to me.

But the one thing I want to talk about is something that I think is very much on the horizon for you and me, Josh.

And that is this and I have heard it from friends who are going through it now.

we've talked a lot about seasons and chapters of your life.

But this one is one that Monty has lived which is almost like the in -between generation or the - like you can't just go in both directions.

So that stage in life where you're trying to bring up your kids and deal with the emotions that come with trying to do with the kids.

So doing lunches in the morning and doing school drop -offs and dealing with tantrums and trying to help kids work their way into the world.

But on the other end, you're also caring for your aging parents who, for the first time in your life and their life, the roles have switched where all of a sudden, you're caring for them.

So perhaps you're doing the school drop off and then all of a sudden, and you're dealing with, you know, maybe the kids have forgot their reader or forgot their lunch and then the next minute, you're taking your dad or your mum to a medical appointment and you're potentially explaining to them what is happening or what the diagnosis is or what the doctor said and then trying to deal with their medication and try and get them into care, all those kind of things.

Oh that's such an interesting, I'd never really thought about it like that.

I mean, obviously it's not as intense for someone who doesn't have children, but yeah, that's such an interesting time where you're right, yet you're in between both.

Yeah, and I think it's a, you know, I definitely talked a lot about the invisible light of parenting a neurodivergent child, but I think there's a very much an invisible light there that I think a lot of us wouldn't say.

I certainly, unless someone told me, I wouldn't know that at a school drop off, I would just, I would think to the parent, well done.

You've got through the morning ritual of getting your kids to school on time.

But they're not knowing they're now going to go and spend the day with their parents who need them, or maybe their parents live with them now.

Or, I think either one of those is very difficult to be doing both at the same time.

I reckon there was a lot of people listening to that episode or that chat with Monty who are probably living that right now and it must be so hard. It must be so incredibly challenging to be like an emotional whiplash between being for your kids being that sort of gentle and supportive figure in their life and then switching to your parents where you're being potentially something very different to them because that's what they need at that time and it must be so incredibly hard. Absolutely.

I think it's sort of very distant on the horizon in my mind.

Like I don't really think about it as much as I should.

I kind of, just to be clear, just so it doesn't sound like something's happened to our parents.

Our parents are both very healthy and still like incredibly independent.

Like there's this we're not at this stage at all yet, but it will happen one day and I I think I kind of have a slight denial about it like I just assumed they'll always be there And I've I have a similar thing.

Yeah, and I think in my head I'm just like well, I Don't want that day to come so I'm not gonna think about it.

And when it does happen, I'll just have to deal with it then But aware that it will happen one day.

There is something very beautiful and tragic and kind of just like it seems fundamental to life what you're describing that like young kids growing and older people aging.

I just think in my like mom and dad are 75 and 76 respectively.

Very healthy. In your head they've got 25 years?

Yeah. 25 -30 years to go.

I'm assuming they'll live to 105 -ish.

So yeah but yeah you don't know.

As Dad often reminds us, you don't know.

It could happen tomorrow.

Which is not a nice thing to hear your dad say.

But yeah, it's something that I haven't considered properly yet.

Well I've thought about a lot recently because one of my closest friends from when we were 12 she went through this last year and she has never seen her ever struggle with anything.

She's always just been so resilient to sort of really glided through life effortlessly and I've always admired that about her.

This is the first thing that this is caring for both her kids and her parents at the same time.

It's the first time I've seen her really, really struggle and that, to me, was a very jolting reminder of how difficult it is and how difficult it will be.

And then hearing Monty talk about the passing of her mum really just made me think about that.

And I think I just wanted to bring it up just to say for anyone out there who's going through it, it's this invisible load that people don't know about.

And it must be a lot.

Do you reckon that, I mean, this is individual -specific, but do you think that by having kids and having the experience of looking after kids, do you think that would better prepare you for that time when your parents do need you?

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say the opposite.

Okay. Well, I don't know the answer and I think it probably is individualistic.

But I think when it's your own parents, you think there's a fundamental bond as a child to a parent.

And I have a feeling when it gets to that point, no matter how much child rearing I've done and how much looking after other people I've done, I think it'll be very hard to overcome that fundamental bond of being the child to a parent.

The role. The role.

Yeah, that that role.

Yeah, exactly. And I imagine that would be made extremely difficult if you happen to have a not very healthy or positive relationship with your parents and then are sort of forced into a situation where you have to be hard for them.

And you have a lot of trauma or bad history there with your own parents, or if your parents are separated and then you're in a really complicated situation where maybe they're not communicating with with each other or any myriad of difficult situations, or even if it's only you, you're an only child or your other siblings don't wanna help, there's so many ways I think that it could be so difficult.

I mean, the other thing as well is if, cause I guess the difference, one of the many differences, I guess, of like looking after a child versus looking after a parent is the expectation from the child is, yeah, you look after me, like that's what you do.

But like I would imagine that'd be often a lot of pushback from a parent because they're just like I don't need your help the stubbornness of thinking like you know that they're not ready and it's embarrassing and that that would be when you clearly know it's like you do need help but they're not really letting you in because that's like you say Josh it's not, that's not the role.

Yeah so my gut feeling is that yeah maybe it could prepare you a bit because you've helped other people in a sort of selfless way I guess that is kind of part of parenting.

But I think there's so many other things that could over take that and just make it an incredibly difficult experience.

Anyway, has a wonderful conversation with Monty and we're so, so grateful to have her in the studio.

That's why we wanted to have for a long time.

I do think in general we don't talk enough about - Interesting we're about to wrap up.

Yeah, go on. Yes, I know.

But no I think - I can just feel Bridget about to walk through the curtain.

Nope, nope. Josh is going again.

Sorry everyone. No, I reckon that our discussion then has made me realise that I don't think we talk enough in our Australian Western culture really about that stage of life.

About moving into old age, end of life, caring for people at the end of their life.

I heard this recently that we talk about so much information and advice and stuff on birth but really nothing really on death in comparison?

Yeah, it's an area that we could be talking a lot more about doing a lot better.

And yeah, I just feel like it's occurred to me only through this conversation what a blind spot it is for me that I really haven't thought about it, but it's such an important thing to do well, if you can.

Yeah, true. Few permission to wrap up?

Wasn't Monty wonderful?

Yeah, she was, she sure was.

Yeah, good wrap up.

No, it was great. Like I said, I love her.

We'll be back next week.

Thanks, guys. See ya.

Q, it's Ryan. I'm actually on a plane right now, flying from Brisbane actually for a gig, I just had the craziest idea for an episode we could potentially do, I thought it would be kind of cool if we spoke to someone who has locked themselves in an airplane toilet cubicle because they broke the handle and the lock off while practicing a parkour move in there.

I just reckon it'd be really interesting to hear their thoughts on that experience, like even right now, know like if you could call or message me back, I would be super interested to hear your thoughts actually.

So you could actually call me back like ASAP and tell me how you would get out of an airplane toilet.

If you were locked in, I'd be so interested to know.

Anyway, it's Ryan Shelton from the podcast. To call back, press 2 -2.

To replay message, press 1.

If you enjoyed this episode you'll love the Vulnerability Mail.

It's a weekly newsletter that helps you remain imperfect.

Each week we'll send you one vulnerable question inspired by the current episode to help you unpack your own imperfect life.

Subscribe at www .TheImperfects .com .au The Imperfects is hosted and produced by Hugh Van Kijlenburg, Ryan Shelton and Josh Van Kijlenberg.

Our executive producer is Bridget North East, assistant producer Bella North released.

This episode is edited by George Martin with music from No Mono. The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.

The advice given in this episode is general in nature but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.

[Navigating Life's Invisible Struggles: Chronic Illness, Motherhood, and the Sandwich Generation]-[Monty Dimond - Sick & Tired of Being Sick & Tired]

📋 Summary

Introduction: The Imperfect Journey

The Weight of Grief and Identity

The Invisible Struggle of Chronic Illness

Neurodiversity and the Parenting Load

The "Sandwich Generation" Dilemma

Conclusion: Resilience in Imperfection

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript