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Your best friend, that Italian leather bag.
Your co-workers unwrap their favorite beauty brands.
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You might not know this, but some people get really turned on by, or comforted by, an image or a video of a woman having trouble starting her car.
Perhaps for these people it's nice to imagine showing up for that woman and helping her, saving her.
Maybe some like the ASMR sound of a car not quite starting and stalling out.
Why not experience that sound while looking at a beautiful woman?
This specialized interest is why Jenna, a model, has been getting hired for video shoots that show her almost starting a car, but failing to get all the way there.
Basically wearing a cute outfit, dress, something like that.
Definitely high, high heels, and trying to start a car that won't start revving the engine, maybe having it shut off on you while you're starting to pull the car out, or something like that.
So it'll be... on video and a lot of shots of me on the gas pedal with the heels on.
It could also be motorcycles.
It could be dirt bikes, old vehicles, newer vehicles, classic vintage, or just more run of the mill.
It's not that I'm necessarily in this like Ferrari or something like that.
It's really more of a damsel in distress theme, maybe because I'll be revving the engine like, oh God, I'm so late.
Why won't this car start?
I wish somebody would help me.
It's funny because I've been a New Yorker since 2010 now and don't even own a car.
So at this point since then, I've probably done more of these videos than actually just normally driving a car, which is pretty funny.
Jenna does her modeling part-time.
Some call it art modeling or glamour modeling.
Others might call it fetish modeling, depending on the job.
Regardless of what you call it, Jenna knows she loves doing it.
It's part of who she is.
Her challenge?
Finding someone who really gets it.
From the Boston Globe, this is Love Letters.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Years ago, a friend showed me an instagram account called bread face blog.
This account features a woman smushing her face into bread, usually to music.
For those who don't get what i'm saying, picture bread on a table.
This woman I'll call her Miss Breadface sits in a chair looking down at the bread in front of her.
Then she thrusts her face literally into the bread.
She smushes her face into plain old Wonder Bread or a bagel, sourdough, a donut.
I've seen her do this with a circular rustic Tuscan kind of bread which to me looks painful because it's got such a hard shell.
But this is her thing.
And for whatever reason, when I saw this account, I found it delightfully silly and also soothing.
Maybe it was that the bread is literally comfort food.
I have thrust a lot of bread into my face in difficult moments.
This was the inverse.
Face into bread.
After watching about 20 of these short videos in a row, I said 20.
It occurred to me that some people who follow Miss Breadface blog might have other interests in this account.
Sometimes Miss Breadface would smash her face into bread while wearing a bikini.
Sometimes her way of rubbing her face in dough was not unlike being face down in pillows.
And that's when I was like, oh, this is a sex thing too.
Some people get super turned on by watching her smother herself in bread.
And really, it takes all kinds.
Who am I to judge?
Google bread and face and fetish, and you'll learn all sorts of things.
After investigating this maybe too much, I did wonder, does Miss Breadface have a partner?
Multiple partners.
Do they even like bread?
Do they care how much she might like it and how much others like watching her smoosh into it?
My interest in all of these questions is why I jumped at the chance to interview Jenna, who you heard from at the start of the episode.
Jenna is a friend of a friend who I met when she was visiting Boston to do a photo shoot.
Jenna told me about this side job she has.
She's a model, sometimes in a traditional way, other times in a way that involves her trying to start a car for people who are into that.
Her shoots can involve wearing something classic like a bikini or something more random.
She told me one time she was paid to wear stilettos while popping balloons.
The more I talked to Jenna over a drink, the more I wanted her to come here and talk about her journey and her love life, because she's had to learn how to seek love while staying true to herself.
Jenna's going to go by her first name only because we're going to talk to her about her very unique modeling work, which can include some more risque material, and she has a date job.
She's actually happy to appear on video by her first name only, so please check out our Instagram.
Actually, if you want a visual right now, let me describe her.
She actually reminds me of Linda Cardellini and also the actress Jenna Fisher, like Pam from The Office.
But when Pam is dressed up sexy in the movie Blades of Glory, I know that's very specific and a deep cut.
When Jenna was a kid in Pennsylvania, she didn't assume she'd become a model.
But looking back, it's not shocking.
I lifeguarded when I was a teenager, so I realized I've been wearing a bikini to work since I was 15.
So, yeah, I mean, I guess I've always been pretty comfortable dressing sexy.
That kind of thing.
I mean, I grew up in the era of Britney Spears, so I didn't have a full shirt for probably like a decade and a half.
I'd actually always thought being a model would be really cool.
I loved watching like fashion files on TV and stuff like that.
And so I, you know, always, thought that that looks very exciting.
She goes to college in Boston to study international relations.
It's in the summer after she graduates that she runs into some models, literally.
I was staying the summer just to hang out.
And I accidentally walked through somebody else's photo shoot in Boston just outside on the Sav, like kind of right in the middle of everybody.
They were actually so far apart from each other that I didn't realize they were doing anything.
It was a photo shoot for an album cover. for a band from the Berklee College of Music.
So I walked right through the middle of everything.
And the photographer stopped me, asked me if I was interested.
Being a nice person, I was like, you know, thanks, but no thanks, sidewalk guy.
And went about my business, came back, they were still out there.
And so I ended up giving him my email.
This photographer, let's call him E, sends her an email.
But understandably, Jenna isn't sure if it's a real thing.
Meeting a photographer on the sidewalk and getting an offer to be a model?
That only happens in movies.
She turns him down, telling him she doesn't think the whole modeling thing is for her.
A few months later, I was waiting for my Peace Corps assignment.
And I got a random email again that was like, if you say no again, I promise I'll leave you alone.
But I had this job for you.
I thought you'd be great for it.
We did my first photo shoot at Revere beach in Boston.
And I like, five in the morning in the fall, it was very cold.
And it's very funny when I look back at the pictures now, because I did not know what I was doing.
So I was just sort of like, what do I do with my hands?
You know, they all look like they should have a little speech bubble.
That's like, what now?
He helps Jenna create a portfolio for work.
She starts doing modeling gigs while working at a shoe store.
Then her Peace Corps assignment comes through.
She goes for two years and when she comes back she relocates to New York, which is not too far from where she was from in Pennsylvania.
As she settles down, she reaches out to her modeling contacts.
Because why not keep modeling?
She liked it really.
Good entry into the modeling world because of the people that I happen to have been lucky enough to be surrounded with in the beginning.
So I had people around me that if I got a job in and I was kind of like, is this Is this real?
I could like forward the email and be like, should I go to this?
And people would tell me yes, no.
There have been things that I, you know, have been surprised that I even got paid for this, because they've been so simple.
And then there's other times where I've spent the entire day in a bikini in the snow and I've just been completely frozen and thought like I can't believe this.
Over time the jobs grow in scope.
They're in different locales.
Some are sexier than others.
Some look very sexy, but are deeply not behind the scenes.
I did have one shoot that I really loved that We were in a park with a little man-made lake kind of thing.
And I was wearing 50s style lingerie, stockings, garters, that whole thing.
And we get to where we're shooting and first the photographer, he forgot his camera.
So of all things.
So the shoot had already started out that way.
And then by the time we got back together with all the actual equipment, it started pouring.
We were like you know what.
We just started taking a few pictures anyway and they came out really cool, just kind of like in the rain.
There's just one photo of me like feeding the ducks in my like outfit.
It had just been a request for a magazine in england that was just gonna use one photo and they ended up doing six photos and a spread because they just thought it was cool and it was totally unexpected.
I did a shoot once smoking a cigar in this lingerie and I don't smoke at all.
And that was just kind of like that was a really long day that I was definitely felt ill by the end of the day after retake and retake and retake.
I've done a lot of shoots out on boats, which I really love, but I've also come home like completely sunburned from being outside all day.
Jenna dates sporadically and casually during these early years of modeling.
It's in her late 20s. that she tries her first real relationship while doing this work.
He's a guy from home.
Let's call him Chris.
When Chris learns that Jenna's a model, he's okay with it.
At first, I think that he really liked it.
I think he liked to tell his friends that he was dating a model, that kind of thing.
But pretty quickly, a certain incompatibility begins to show.
To start, Jenna and Chris want different things and are becoming different people.
He had a job in her town and was happy to be there.
In retrospect, I would not have been happy staying in my town.
And so I think I had also met a lot of people too outside of our town.
I went to college and met a ton of international students.
Just really like super broadened my horizons.
And now this modeling thing seemed to be working for me, which was amazing.
So I really wanted to see where I could take it and what I wanted to do with it.
So, whereas I was really excited and felt like everything was opening up for me.
I almost felt like the other way was almost like a hand kind of closing, like kind of bringing me back a little bit.
And like I didn't want to be on the phone all weekend on my shoot, you know, and then if I wasn't on the phone, what was I doing?
That I couldn't be on the phone?
It was just, it got way too much for me.
For Chris, it was the time involved in the work.
But to Jenna, it seemed like jealousy and judgment were part of it too.
They break up.
I think I shied away from that kind of dating scene a little bit.
After this experience, it's not easy.
She does date.
There are interested parties.
But you can kind of tell who says they're okay with the modeling work, but truly hates it.
And let me be clear, depending on the guy, there might be different reasons for discomfort.
For some, it might be the nature of the modeling that her work can get very specific, like feeding ducks and lingerie.
For others, it might not matter what she's modeling.
It's the schedule and the exposure to so many industry peoples.
There are people who can't imagine a world in which she's not attracted to other people who work with her.
I travel for these shoots, so I'll be gone for maybe three, four days while I'm in Nashville or something to shoot.
So I think the time became part of it.
And then also the fact that I'm traveling with the photographers.
And I think that there started to be this idea of you can't just be doing the shoot and coming home.
I actually never dated a photographer in this long time that I've been doing this, but I think that there started to be this idea of like well, if you're running around in a bikini all weekend like, and then you're staying at the same hotel, how could nothing have happened?
And to me, it's a job.
It's the same as if I had a coworker at an office, like I'm there all day.
Nothing happened there either.
Things get even more complicated because welcome the Internet.
I mean, there was Internet when she started, but not social media.
Now, all of a sudden, she does one shoot, and it could be everywhere forever, in an uncontrollable way.
And she kind of likes that.
I never had that idea when I started modeling that whatever I take would be everywhere.
And I was actually a little late to adding an Instagram.
I had my friends asking, like, I can't believe you don't have an Instagram yet.
And then I realized that I can put all these photos on here.
You know, people can find me, find my Instagram easily or Facebook or something.
And so there is maybe the element of whoever I'm dating is fine with it, but what if they're a sibling finds me, or a parent finds me, or something?
And then you have to kind of, who am I dating?
Am I dating somebody who doesn't care if their family member thinks the bikini photos are too risque?
Or is it somebody who thinks like, oh no, I'm going to take her to Thanksgiving and everybody's going to ask her something?
To embrace this life shouldn't have to mean being single forever.
And also, Jenna knows all relationships involve some compromise, right?
What's a model to do?
More when we come back, like a perfect display of rotating photos that will make my loved ones smile and remember our best moments.
That's why I'm mentioning an ideal for a holiday gift the Aura Carver Matte Frame, which basically lets you be a photo DJ.
You can preload photos for someone before the gift ships.
So they open this frame and what pops up is your best hits together.
Maybe a bunch of photos that span years of friendship or family time.
For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFramescom to get 35 off Aura's best-selling Carver mat frames, named No.
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This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast.
So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays.
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Holiday shopping often means acquiring more things you probably don't need.
But maybe this year, it could mean something different.
It could mean investing in yourself, in pleasure, in curiosity, in connection.
That's the idea behind Beducated.
And I'll see you next time.
It's thoughtful, respectful education for a part of life some of us never really learned about.
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Slash love letters Back to Jenna, who is a part-time model.
Her day job is in retail, by the way.
And her side gig?
It's so many different things done, stuff where I've done the bikini photos that go right to the catalogs and the websites like directly to sell them, which I guess the classic idea.
I've worked with people that really this is for their own portfolio.
I've had stuff go up in art galleries. across the country, which is very cool.
Sometimes it's for a photographer.
Maybe that has a business doing boudoir photos or wedding photos as well.
They just need some extra work for their website just to keep having new pictures.
So it really does run the gamut.
I get paid for my time kind of either way.
So that works for me.
As Jenna has grown with her modeling, She's seen that her issues with dating are fairly universal for women who do this kind of work.
And she's learned that for some people, mostly straight women, you either do this kind of modeling or you date.
It feels like you're not supposed to do both.
And then you hear somebody who's like, oh, well, I've stopped.
Like she stopped modeling because she got a boyfriend.
What other job would you stop going to because you had a boyfriend?
I really just think of this as a job.
I guess it could make you feel like oh, am I not going to find somebody if I decide to keep this job?
Do I really have to pick one or the other?
But at the same time, it's like, do I want to be with somebody who would expect that?
I mean, that answer for me is no, especially a more solid no as I've gotten older, too.
In her early 30s, Jenna has a moment of clarity.
First, she realizes she wants to keep modeling, maybe forever.
That means she has to change how she's dating.
Maybe she's swiping on the wrong people.
Maybe she's letting conversations go on and on, when they should end as soon as someone gives off the wrong vibe.
She realizes she has to find like-minded people who respect this work.
People who won't drop her or judge her because she's doing a photo shoot where she's popping balloons with her stilettos.
But she also needs someone who won't date her simply because she's popping balloons while wearing stilettos.
Truly, she doesn't want to be someone's fetish as a model.
She thinks, who understands exhibition?
Who understands art?
Fellow artists.
She thinks, if you do similar work, you get it.
It's definitely easy when I know somebody maybe has a job in the entertainment industry, or I've dated male models too, so that's easy enough.
Everybody gets what we're doing.
The next thing, she wastes no time delaying her truth and showing people how it works.
There may be some misconceptions of what comes along with it.
I mean, I do have like my online presence.
So if you see my Instagram, it's like clear that I've been modeling for a long time.
The same time I have often kept a regular job during my life where I just keep it separate.
I, you know, actually in some places have just completely blocked my other co-workers just to keep my two lives different.
But if I was getting serious with anybody or thinking that I really like them, I would definitely disclose that this is what I do.
And I love what I do.
I think it's a lot of fun, but somebody were to feel jealous about it or have any thoughts about it, I'd rather get that out in the open now, because I'm not somebody who's going to stop what I'm doing for a relationship.
I think that that person wouldn't be right for me if they didn't connect with it.
As Jenna better curates her experience, she learned something that Nicole talked about in our last episode.
Maybe it's better to have short great respectful relationships than try for permanency with someone who isn't quite right.
To do this, Jenna starts dating people from out of town.
I live in New York City, so I definitely I had a space of time where I had a lot of fun dating tourists and everybody's in a.
We're the only people who don't go on vacation for like three months.
So it's easy to be perfect for three months, you know, go to rooftops and steakhouses and go to the beach and just have like a great vacation boyfriend.
And then if I ever go to Brazil or Italy or whatever, catch a bleeder.
Jenna also expands her range for dating.
She starts dating people who come from other countries and might even live in other countries.
This teaches her that some of her dating issues are actually American ones.
Not to generalize, but we are not a culture where everybody's comfortable at a nude beach.
I've dated some great people who've come to the States from other places.
I found that actually a lot of Europeans have a much more relaxed attitude about this.
One relationship in her 30s really highlights this difference.
Let's call this guy Jay.
We went on a couple of dates and like really hit it off.
He's from the UK and had come here for work and was here in the city, which was super exciting great, geographically desirable.
And I, like I said, wanted to put all my cards on the table and told him about the work that I do and showed him my portfolio and I was definitely scanning him for like a reaction, just because of some of my past situations where like okay, we're good.
And then are we also still going to be good in like two months or something?
And you know, I think there's a much freer idea.
Of like art nudity, like fashion, I think in a lot of these bigger European cities than there is in the States here.
So like, just felt like there was like nothing shocking about this.
These are beautiful.
It's a great, you're doing a great job.
I love this.
And I love that you love it.
All good things.
And it was just like such, like a relief that I was like oh, I had almost this big explanation ready to go.
And then it was just like completely unnecessary.
It just felt easy and natural and good.
And not to like completely stereotype, but in general I have found that people that I've dated who have been from outside of the States have a much easier time and stay that way.
Then some of the American men that I've dated, who might seem OK in the beginning or say they're OK in the beginning and then just sort of fade out where it's like this isn't working.
Jenna and Jay date for about a year.
It was fun and refreshing.
And in the end, they break up for reasons unrelated to modeling.
Once I had a really good experience putting all my cards on the table.
It made me a little less willing to deal with a not good experience.
There are people who not only don't care it's not that they don't care about it, but they're actively happy for me.
Neutral should not be the best that I'm hoping for.
So so that I think gave me sort of a green light to be like well, To be even quicker.
I don't think this is it.
If somebody thinks there's something morally weird about getting paid to wear a bikini, trips around the beach or whatever, and thinks you should be doing something else.
Even if you don't think that if somebody is constantly saying that to you, it can kind of make you start to be like is this a problem?
Am I weird?
And so I think that having a couple of good experiences made that not a factor for me anymore.
One interesting change to the culture in the last few years there's now only fans for those who don't know.
Only fans is a subscription service where people can give their followers special content.
It's become a place where people can share explicit stuff.
Jenna gets this question a lot.
Are you on OnlyFans?
She isn't.
Her modeling work is more traditional.
She's also not really what someone might call an Instagram model, where her life is modeling for an Instagram audience.
Jenna does post pictures of herself on Instagram, sometimes wearing a lot of mesh or all leather, but she's in the business of showing up and having her picture taken and being part of a specific project.
That said, as OnlyFans became, and continues to be, a big thing, it's been interesting to see what potential suitors might say about other people who are on OnlyFans.
And who might be relieved that Jenna is not on OnlyFans.
Because does Jenna really want to be with somebody who's okay with her work?
Because she hasn't crossed that one specific line.
I'm always interested in the demographics of who listens to this podcast.
It's a range of people, but many are women, and most of them are in their 20s and 30s.
I think that's a complicated age where some personal growth is about learning to balance what you want in a relationship with your own personal goals.
It's also a time for figuring out whether compromise has to be about giving good things up.
Jenna is a great example of someone who can't compromise when it comes to a big thing.
So now it's about finding a romantic partner who thinks it's really cool that she might get into a car and almost start it and then stall out while a lot of people watch.
It actually helps that she's still modeling, because had she stopped, gotten sick of it, whatever she says, it'd be harder for her to know who really gets her.
She knows she's not for everyone.
It's okay not to want to date someone who does this work.
But Jenna wants someone who can look at her past and her present and say, I love this for you.
That's what we all want, right?
Even in friendships, people who can see and love what truly makes us happy.
I chose to do this.
I chose to keep doing it.
When I first started, I thought, oh, maybe I'll do this for a year.
And then after a year, I was like, I really like it.
So then I thought, well, I'll stop when I'm 30.
And then I didn't feel any different the day after.
I mean, I can get needing to make time for a relationship, especially with the travel.
So I can understand.
Maybe you're not going 120 trying to book every five minutes if you're also trying to spend time with somebody.
But the idea of just completely stopping it to me just doesn't make sense.
Like I said before, what other job would you be like?
Well, and then I quit my job because I found a partner.
If we all did that, what would happen?
And, you know, is that just expected of the woman in the relationship? to do that, you know?
I've managed myself for almost 20 years.
Like I've, you know, I have drive.
I like the artistic sort of creative side of it.
And I feel really lucky to still be booking, which is great.
So if somebody can't be on that like if I have to be a cheerleader for myself by myself, then what am I in a relationship for?
But I do remember having a first conversation online with my now-significant other and saying...
I'm a relationship advice columnist and podcast host.
And I was thinking, does this sound very stupid?
Or does it sound imposing?
Or does he worry I'm some Sex and the City character who will write about this date?
Or is he disappointed?
I don't look like a Sex and the City character because he thinks I should be a certain thing in a certain way.
And right before my date with him, I almost had a date with this guy who told me he'd been a reader of my column.
He seemed extra excited to meet but then cancelled at the last minute, with this weird note that said, And I was like that's okay.
I did suspect that my work had something to do with his great enthusiasm that turned into a panicked cancellation.
We all have stuff in our lives our work lives, our creative lives that makes us desirable or not, depending on the audience.
We have to find friends, loved ones partners, who see a full picture and can be content to meet us where we are.
Everybody's trying to find a person or people who will continue to like them for those reasons that they might have liked them to begin with.
Like, oh, like, you know, you're a musician and you have cool live shows.
Oh, you have them five days a week.
I hate it.
Right.
Like there's a beyond jealousy and modeling and whatever.
There's also just like finding someone who will Not just like your stuff in the beginning but continue to like your stuff.
What message would you give to people who are seeking that and may not know when to compromise time and not know when it's actually okay to do a little less of something to make room for something else?
Well, I like what you said about, about meeting people where they are and then also keeping the idea of like everybody's going somewhere.
So it's not you know if if, where you meet somebody when you first get to know them, if they never move past that like there's probably something wrong.
So I think it's probably got to be rooted in like intentions and a mutual respect for one another and obviously like trust and honesty and like all of that that.
You know, I have to be with somebody who's going to be okay with the fact that on a Tuesday I might be, you know, throwing on a cocktail dress and going to a networking event.
I wanted to end my talk with Jenna by having her play advice columnist.
I asked her to answer a question I got at the Love Letters advice column earlier this year.
I answered.
I did my best.
But I felt Jenna had more expertise.
It's a fairly short one, but i'll read it to you.
I'm a 26 year old male.
It's been a while since i've been in a serious relationship, but i recently met this woman and we really hit it off.
We've been hanging out a lot and always have a great time together, but she has an OnlyFans.
She's open about it and her content is not crazy explicit.
I'm in a very strange situation.
I really don't care that much about her OnlyFans in a jealous or possessive sense.
But my biggest holdup is what if other people like my family found out about it?
Then not only would she be judged harshly, which I wouldn't want, but I would also be judged for my decision to be with her.
Whether that judgment stigma around sex work is right or wrong.
It would happen and I fear there would be great social consequences for both of us.
I know I need to talk to her about my concerns, but I don't want to come off as judgy or that I'm trying to make her quit, which I would like, but I don't think it's my place to try to force.
If we do end up dating.
I also don't want to have this constant anxiety about someone finding her OnlyFans and everything blowing up in my face.
I really really, really like this girl and want to be with her, but I feel like I'm taking on a lot of risk.
What should I do?
You know, one thing that stood out to me is that he says I don't want to come off as judgmental and I don't want to tell her to quit, but I want her to quit.
And like in parentheses, and I'm judgmental is like how I felt.
My first thought is is you're not okay with this and you're just looking at all kinds of things to like blame that on.
That to me, I think you need to reevaluate.
And the fact that if you're this into this girl, what would your family saying anything?
I just feel like I would.
I would defend my man and if that's who I want to be, he's in a relationship with me, not the whole family.
So that seems kind of easy answer to me.
I don't think he's okay with it.
He says he really likes this girl a lot.
But I think he really likes this idea of what he could.
He likes parts of her, but we're all whole people.
So that's one thing.
And as far as the girl goes, I hope that she's already caught inklings of this.
Not that I want her to feel bad, but I hope that she's already sort of gotten this idea.
You know, maybe she's had this conversation and he says that her OnlyFans isn't even that explicit.
It sounds like she showed him and like been open about it.
So I kind of am curious about how that conversation went.
And I wonder are they at the point of a relationship where she should probably it would be normal to meet his siblings or something, and that's not happening?
I would caution her to Try and be as honest as you can about how it feels, and not how you want it to feel or hope it feels later.
Or neither one of them should be hoping the other one is going to get over it in two months, because I think it is what it is.
That's the other side to this.
I want Jenna to be with someone who isn't pretending.
Don't waste her time.
Don't waste anyone's time if you can't love them as is.
Jenna's Instagram is LalunaJenna.
Breadface blog is now on OnlyFans, which means that if I want to watch that woman smash her face into a baguette, I'm probably going to have to start paying.
I'll close out this episode with one sound, because I'm quite sure it will make some of you feel very good.
Love Letters is a production of the Boston Globe.
Our producer is Christina Hanatu.
Our executive producer is Kristen Nelson.
Story, edit, mixing, and mastering by Jasmine Aguilera.
Sound design by Christina Hanatu.
Special thanks to Nancy Barnes and Linda Henry.
Please remember love letters is also an advice column.
Send any questions about dating divorce marriage singlehood, whatever to loveletters bostoncom.
How would you find that content without TikTok and Instagram and all of that stuff now?
Like, what were they doing in the 80s?
Cocaine.
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Thanks for listening.
