Hi Crime Junkies. I am here because there is an update in a case that you may have been following with me and you need to hear this.
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Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.
And I'm Britt. And the story I have for you today is one that I've wanted to tell for a minute now because I found it in a super interesting way.
So back in 2022, I covered the case of Randy Leach on the deck, except this is not that Randy Leach.
It's a different. It's different.
So when our reporting team was out first diving into that case, we realized that there were two Randy Leaches that were missing people.
And it is finally time that I tell you the other Randy Leach's story, because the circumstances are truly bizarre.
He goes to a graduation party, starts acting strange, but he doesn't know what's wrong with him.
And it's so strange that people don't want him to drive.
I mean, that's how bad it is.
One minute he's there, and the next, both him and his car are missing, have been missing for 36 years.
And in those years, rumors have swirled.
Rumors about a party gone wrong, rumors about a satanic cult, and a police department that, as far as the family is concerned, didn't do everything they could have.
This is the story of Randy Leach.
It's just after 6 a .m.
on April 16th, 1988, when Alberta Leach wakes up in her Linwood, Kansas home, ready to get her Saturday started.
The first thing she does after climbing out of bed is to check on her 17 -year -old son, Randy, because she knows that he'd been out at a party the night before, and she wants to ensure that her only child got home safely.
Several sources report that his curfew was 12 .30 in the morning.
Dad says he's usually home by 1.
Like, the latest he's ever out was, like, 2 a .m.
And according to the Lawrence Journal World, on most occasions, his mom would actually hear him come in at night, and that would, like, wake her up.
Sometimes they'd even have a little late -night conversation, and then Randy would go to bed.
But she didn't wake up the night before because she never heard him come in and she's realizing now that's because her son is nowhere to be found.
He's not in his room, he's not crashed on the couch with the TV on and I'm sure her already building anxiety spikes when she looks outside and sees that her car, the car that Randy was driving the night before, isn't there either.
She goes and wakes her husband, Harold, and they immediately start calling around to friends but no one has seen Randy since the party the night before.
According to another Lawrence Journal World article, they make a call to Alberta's brother, who is a police officer in the nearby town of Lawrence.
And he heads out to the farm about 10 miles from the leech home where this like outdoor pre -graduation bonfire bash was held the night before.
That's what Randy was going to.
Now, Randy's parents went out there too.
We actually got to talk to Alberta's friend, Betty, who's kind of like the family spokesperson now.
And she told us that when they got there, Harold noticed that the teenager who lived at that house was, and this is so strange to me, was like standing in the driveway in tears.
But there's no sign of Randy.
There's no sign of the car.
In fact, another strange thing is that there's no sign that a party even took place.
Like everything had already been cleaned up and the mom of the kid who lived there didn't offer much help.
Like she didn't have a whole lot to say.
In fact, according to Fox 4 News, she just offered them a morning beer.
i'm sorry i'm gonna need you to rewind a little bit why is the teenager crying in the driveway and like teenagers i have one not the cleanest people they had a party the night before and there's no evidence of it they said it looked like there's no cups there's no trash it looked everything had been
like raked up like so early in the morning this party just like went away we don't know why this young woman was crying again could be something completely unrelated I think this is something that I spiraled on so much because I'm like, I have a thousand questions for you if my son's missing.
Yeah. I think they were so focused on on Randy and like where he was and not even thinking worst case scenario that that.
Or even picking up like how kind of odd all of these things put together are.
And also she's like a young girl and people are like very quick to just like they find what they think is like nothing there.
And so what they do after is they start to fan out.
The town of Linwood, where they live and where Randy grew up, is only, I mean, it's small, like 300 people at the time.
So you can assume it's not long before everyone knows what's going on.
But after a day of searching, there is still no sign of Randy.
The next day, on the 17th, Randy's parents formally file a missing persons report.
Some sources have this happening on the 16th, but it sounds like they maybe tried to do it on the 16th and then were told that they had to wait the 24 hours or whatever because this was like a mandatory waiting period.
Which I'm surprised because he's a minor.
Me too. But what's not a surprise is that initially, and we see this all the time as well, police think that Randy might have just up and run away.
Oh, run away. Cool.
But according to the Lawrence Journal World, it does look like on the 18th, they finally do put the word out that they're looking for a 6 '3", 220 -pound 17 -year -old.
Which, considering how big he is, it should make Randy a little easier to spot in a crowd.
And in that same article, it mentions they're also looking for more information on his mom's gray Dodge, which is missing with him.
That's what he was driving that night.
So a couple of tips start coming in.
Someone who maybe saw Randy at a high school in another town, according to a single source.
An anonymous woman who claims to have seen a gray car driving erratically down a street in Lawrence at some point.
But neither of those are confirmed.
So police and Randy's family are left to try and retrace his last known movements.
Now, depending on the reporting, the last time Randy's parents saw him was between 6 .30 and 6 .45 p .m.
That's when he headed out for the night.
According to an article by Phil Cawthon for Lawrence .com, around 7 p .m.
he stopped at his cousin's house.
And then at some point, it sounds like maybe this was like 8 .30, Randy and a friend of his named Steve, who was older, They drove to the town of DeSoto to look at Randy's graduation present.
It was this Mustang that was in the process of being restored.
Now, it's unclear what happened to Steve after this point, and I'll talk more about him later.
What we know is that Randy gets gas after this, but there's no note if he was solo, if Steve was still with him, anything like that.
But according to Fox 4 in Kansas, I do know that he's by himself when he arrives to that party.
So again, where Steve departed, TBD.
So Fox 4's investigative producer, Lisa McCormick, did a deep dive into Randy's case.
And we're going to cite their findings a lot here.
And depending on the source, it's sometime between 9 .30 and 10 p .m.
when he gets to that party.
And when he arrives, the bonfire party has like already kicked off.
And how big was this party?
Like a couple of kids or?
I feel like I'm on repeat.
Depends on the source.
But it's not just a couple of kids.
They all say it was from like 45 people to like 150 people.
So this is a big thing.
Yeah, especially for a town that's small.
And I assume there's, like, kids coming from Lawrence, like, the Seraphat.
Otherwise, half the town could be at the spawn fire.
It has to be, like, pulling from other places.
Now, according to people at the party, there was drinking, there was drug use going on by most of the kids.
Though, it doesn't sound like Randy was a big drinker and he didn't use drugs, at least according to his parents.
And the thing is, is, like, even in most of the reporting, there's nobody who even saw him with a drink.
though there is at least one source that suggests that Randy was given a drink like a single drink and everyone says like he seemed fine early on like sounds like he was talking with friends everything was normal and then within a half an hour of him being like his normal self Randy starts acting super
strange he can't walk straight his mom told Fox 4's Lisa McCormick that when she talked to one of Randy's friends after he went missing the friend said that Randy was quote messed up and when he asked Randy like dude what's wrong with you even randy's like i don't know man like he even he didn't know
what was going on with him so it's not even like he's like oh i'm just wasted yeah the lawrence world journal reports that the mom of the kid who threw this party says that she never saw randy with a drink in his hand and that he didn't look drunk so you have all these different things but she did say
that she noticed that something was definitely off because even she says that he was stumbling So do we know, like, towards the end of his time there, when did he leave?
How was he planning on leaving?
Like, was it with a group of people?
So that's the thing, no one can pin that down exactly.
But it seems like the police were able to get kind of a rough window of when he was last seen from these people that were there.
So a friend of Randy's claims that he helped Randy find his car between 1230 and 1 a .m.
But when they found the car, Randy couldn't find his keys.
Even though, like, I don't even think Randy was in any kind of condition to drive at that point.
I was going to say.
Yeah, it sounds like this friend planned to give him a ride home, but the friend, like, had to drive another person home first.
And by the time that friend got back, Randy and his car were already gone.
Now, there's another sighting of Randy, though.
The Lawrence Journal World reports that the mother of the teen whose party this was, she saw Randy waiting for the bathroom, she says, at around 2 a .m.
So this could be the last known sighting of Randy if her account is correct.
Now, by 2 .30, everyone says the party is basically over except for, like, a few kids who were lingering who were going to be crashing there that night, none of whom were Randy or his car.
So, everyone's immediate fear at first, like knowing all of this, is that, like, maybe Randy found his keys.
Like, there are a bunch of random stories of people, like, playing catch with them or someone else having them, but then they later denied it.
Like, it's messy. But maybe somehow he got his keys and while unable to even walk properly, maybe he got behind the wheel in the wee hours of the morning and maybe he crashed like somewhere on his way home.
And no one saw his car leave.
Not him or his car.
He just, both are just gone.
One minute they're there, the next minute they're gone.
But this accident theory, it's just one theory and honestly, it's not even police's first theory.
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Randy's parents say police were quick to write their son off as a runaway.
And according to Fox 4, quote, missed opportunities to interview witnesses right away.
Did they search the farm at all?
They will, but they don't actually search the farm for five weeks.
Weeks? Weeks. And when they do, they don't report having done it with anything belonging to Randy on hand.
Like Lisa McCormick spent months reviewing the files connected to Randy's case with Eugene Matthews, who was this associate professor of criminal justice at Park University.
And Matthews says that search dogs potentially could have had a shot even five weeks later at finding Randy's last location on the farm.
If they had something of his to go off of.
Like a piece of clothing.
Yeah, anything with his scent.
But the Leavenworth County Sheriff's Office didn't do that.
And we actually reached out to the sheriff's office about this.
And while they wouldn't respond to, like, specific questions from us, they did give us a statement.
And part of that statement reads, quote, Our staff and the LVSO in its entirety remain committed to the solving of this case.
At no point have we wavered in the pursuit of this goal.
Over the 36 years of this case's existence, we have assigned dedicated, qualified investigators to the case.
We have endeavored to bring this case to a close.
End quote. Now, at no point then or now have they said if anything comes of that search, if anything was found on the farm.
But I mean, I think anything worth finding had five weeks to disappear.
Yeah. So saying there's nothing, even if there is nothing, like that doesn't really hold a whole lot of weight for people.
Least of all, Randy's family.
But the thing is, the more I think about it, even if they would have searched it sooner, I don't know if they would have found anything.
because if you remember of how cleaned up it was.
Right. I mean, people point to that all the time.
When Randy's uncle had gone looking for him, he said you literally could not tell a party had happened there.
A quote in the Lawrence Journal world has him saying, I was at the site of the party around 7 in the morning and they wouldn't do a thing to help me.
The ground was swept and raked and everything put away.
No cups or cans. You couldn't even have told there was a party there.
And that's 7 o 'clock in the morning.
Party ends at 2 .30.
I was going to say, there were only stragglers who were staying overnight at 2 .30.
Yes. That is such a small amount of time to just make any evidence that a party even happened disappear.
Unless like we didn't want our parents to know that the party happened, which we know this like mom there knows it's going on.
It's like they are seeing people.
We're cleaning up the next day.
Oh, for sure. And the fact that this got cleaned up so quickly, I think this is what starts to really fuel rumors in town.
What kind of rumors?
Well, buckle up. So we're about to head into satanic panic territory.
As you know, we are in the late 80s.
It is prime time for satanic panic.
And we are in Bible Belt, Kansas.
So the air is like primed when, according to Kansas City Star, a tip comes in that says one of Randy's classmates had told another classmate that he was part of a satanic cult.
And that he murdered Randy as some kind of ritual sacrifice.
So, I mean, this sounds wild, but police bring this guy in for questioning.
And according to the Kansas City Star, they also search a car in relation to this.
And inside they find some knives.
They find some, like, wait for it, dungeon and dragons, a manual, which like I think just fuels the theory.
At that time, yes, 1 ,000%.
But ultimately this classmate of Randy's never gets charged.
and actually this classmate his name's rob he was interviewed on an episode of the crime wire podcast in 2017 and he admits that he was at the party he says though that he was targeted with all this because he was just like the black sheep in the community he's like i wasn't like i wasn't satanic i
was just like into heavy metal music and i had nothing to do with randy's disappearance this entire story that the police were tipped off to was just a lie and even like the dnd thing in the Kansas City Star like apparently he told them like he didn't even play it so like that's such a frustrating like
I love that they're like honing in on that your husband plays D &D my husband and my son both like play D &D pretty regularly it is I think it's kind of lame but like everyone has their thing don't offend the listeners I know everyone has their thing and like this is so benign and innocuous and like I
am trying to put myself in the mid -80s when this was like a big, very scary thing.
Well, and I remember growing up, right?
Like I wasn't able to touch a Dungeons & Dragons thing.
There was the word dragons in it.
Well, what this reminds me of, it reminds me a lot of the West Memphis Three if like the West Memphis Three hadn't have ended in a conviction.
You know what I mean?
Like this was the start of it.
It's like, oh, you dress in black.
Oh, you like heavy metal music.
Something that not everyone else in the community is doing.
And that's sad and frustrating.
Right. So according to the Topeka Capital Journal, despite Rob never being charged, police did continue to monitor and follow him around.
I guess it literally took Rob 26 years just to get his knives and books back from the police after they were taken.
But just because Rob was off the hook, it doesn't mean that the community thinks that the police were barking up the wrong tree.
Because something wild happens in the middle of all of this.
Something that like makes them think this satanic thing is like got some legs to it.
So there's this young man who walks into the police station in a nearby town, this town of Edwardsville.
This is like 20 minutes from where Randy grew up.
And this guy tells police a story that sends shockwaves through Linwood.
This man says that he was abducted by a group of people and held for three weeks.
Some reports say two weeks, but weeks nonetheless.
He tells police that they drugged him and at one point they brought him to this cave where he witnessed several people in robes performing some kind of ritual.
According to one source, they threatened to cut off his arm at one point.
And according to the Bonner Springs Edwardsville Chieftain, he was also shown a dead body hanging in the cave that he said appeared to be a young man around six feet tall, weighing about 200 pounds.
But whoever this young man was, like his face was smashed.
So he couldn't say who it was or if it looked like Randy or anything like that.
Now, how this guy got away, how he's able to tell his story, why they let him go, all of that is unclear.
But did it actually happen?
I mean, you just said the time that this was, this is like peak satanic panic era.
I don't know. So this guy passes several polygraph tests, and according to Fox 4, the Edwardsville police and a satanic expert are at least willing to take it seriously enough that they want to go search this cave.
But this is where, like, there's a huge halt because I guess officials in Leavensworth County, this is where the cave was actually located, they threatened anyone with arrest if they searched the cave, even though these are, like, other officials.
So Edwardsville has to just, like, back off and drop it.
So I can't tell you if it's real or not because we don't know.
Why didn't the county went the cave search?
I don't know if they were just being territorial, which if they were, you would think they would do it themselves, or it's possible they're just writing the whole thing off.
Because there is a caveat to this.
So according to the Kansas City Star, at one point, this guy retracted his statement.
He's claiming that he was high at the time.
So I think a lot of people start to just write off that story as some, like, drug -induced hallucination.
But there are at least two sources that claim sheriffs eventually do some kind of initial search of these caves and find no sign of Randy, which is like obviously good.
But one of those sources reports that there were some kind of markings that were found.
Some law enforcement agencies think they're satanic.
Others think they're not.
So it's unclear if the plan is to, like, keep looking into this, just letting it, like, die off here.
It's a big question mark, right?
Yeah. But in the meantime, while they decide what to or not to do, others were looking at more logical explanations for Randy's disappearance.
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So there's about 10 miles between Randy's house and this farm where the party was.
And if you map this out, there are a few bodies of water that Randy might have come across depending on which of the two routes he could have taken home that night.
And obviously this is after they've, like, searched the road.
It's not a ditch somewhere.
So the next thing is they're thinking is, like, body of water.
Now, he could go north or south.
And it sounds like the south route, which would be considered more of, like, the back route, is maybe where Randy could get in the most trouble.
It would put Randy on what was known as Golden Road, which runs along the Kansas River.
And at one point, it actually crosses over what was known as Stranger Creek.
Now, there's also a world where maybe Randy was so disoriented that he didn't even take the normal path home, which is why they have got to throw a wide net at this point.
And according to the Lawrence Journal world, in the first two months after Randy went missing, police are searching everything.
They search the river, ponds, creeks, any sign for Randy or his car that either one went into the water.
Which, I mean, this is like Occam's razor.
It makes the most sense.
It would, except after putting a plane into the air to do aerial searches and everything in the water, there is still no sign of him or the car anywhere.
So if he accidentally drove into a river or some ravine somewhere, where is he?
And why weren't there any signs of a car going off the road?
Plus, if Randy lost control of the car and ended up in the water, what are the chances that he didn't hit like anything else that night, like as he's going in?
Because there's no reporting of a collision in the area surrounding the house where the party was or anywhere else.
So it feels, to your point, like Occam's razor, it feels like the logical explanation, but it still is not yielding any results.
Right. And it leaves you with so many questions.
Spring rolls into summer and for Randy's parents, the investigation into his disappearance isn't moving fast enough.
So they hire a private detective, but it doesn't sound like anything comes of that either.
And the longer Randy is missing, the more rumors his parents must face in their small community.
One source claims police were given a name of a guy that Randy might have left with that night, a guy who then dismembered Randy.
But according to police, this guy was in prison when Randy disappeared.
Then there's speculation that maybe Randy OD'd or maybe he was murdered over witnessing a drug deal or maybe he was tied to a tree and then died of dehydration.
But none of these cases can be confirmed.
I mean, him witnessing a drug deal and then things going south or being tied to a tree, those seem a little out there.
But him ODing doesn't seem that far -fetched.
I mean, no one can really explain why he was seen, like, stumbling around.
He was at this party.
Everyone, like, everyone's climbing up or no one's talking.
Or even if someone, like, drugged him and he didn't know.
Exactly. It might have been, like, an OD that he was even conscious of because it seems like some of the witness statements, he didn't even know what was going on with himself.
Right. And I'm with you.
Like, the problem is, it's still all rumors.
Like, his parents can't go off that.
All they can do is hope for a real break while kind of racking their brains for anything that maybe, like, seemed, things that were, like, normal before Randy disappeared but, like, are red flags now in hindsight.
And they don't come up with anything earth -shattering.
I mean, like, okay, he recently went through a breakup.
He wasn't happy about, like, his playing time on the basketball team.
Like, these are small potatoes to parents.
Exactly. Like you have a broader view on life, but they're big things to a kid.
So they get to the point, honestly, his parents, where they're almost hoping maybe one of those things is the reason he left.
And he did leave on his own.
He ran away. And they're hoping for that because that would at least mean the back roads and highways of Kansas coming home each day empty handed.
So no matter where they look in state or out, the outcome is always the same.
Towards the end of the summer, the leeches get a call from authorities.
And this call is one that they've been dreading getting.
Police have pulled a body from the Missouri River, which isn't far from Linwood, where they live.
But even then, it turns out it's not Randy.
So back to square one.
And this just shows you, like, the roller coaster that these families go through, right?
Like, satanic cult.
There's a cave. There's a person in his class.
He's found in a river.
Like you just go through this like whirlwind of emotions.
And this goes on and on into the new year.
And then in March of 1989, that's when police get what could be a potentially huge break in the case.
Oh, and actually, this reminds me.
I never got back to Steve, the guy that he was like with for a little bit that day.
So there is something weird I need to tell you about real quick.
So we know Steve. He's the friend that was with Randy before the party.
He's with him at, like, 830.
They're going to look at the Mustang.
Then we know they're not together when Randy gets to the party.
TBD, where Steve was.
Yeah, but we don't know what happened between those two points.
Yeah, that's never reported on, like, where he was.
But get this. According to the Lawrence Journal world, that first morning when Randy's parents woke up and discovered that he wasn't home, apparently they saw Steve, like, driving 10 miles per hour past the house, which was on, like, a main highway.
The speed limit was, like, 55.
and then he passes again by the leeches house on the county road like on another road that's like by their house and this is first thing in the morning like as they're discovering randy's right and that's why they're like at the time they didn't even like register it they're like again small town like
oh we know him they don't even know he's like really missing or how serious this is and then like it's something they think back on later and listen if you want to know if police ever asked steve about this so do i again the sheriff's office doesn't seem inclined to want to answer specific questions
so just kind of like file away that weirdness as I tell you this next thing.
So we're in March of 1989.
Randy has been missing almost a full year at this point and guess who finds a severed foot on the shoreline of the Kansas River?
Shoo on it and everything.
Steve? Friggin Steve.
He tells authorities that he was just like strolling along when he stumbled across this foot.
Now why Steve is strolling along the river I don't know but that's Steve's story.
And as wild as this is, it might mean nothing because the police determine that this is not Randy's foot.
I mean, I don't know how to feel about this.
Yay, question mark.
Whose foot is it? I don't know.
What I know is that Fox 4 got a statement from the KBI.
They said that at some point DNA testing confirmed it wasn't Randy's.
So it's not just like a guess based on the shoot, DNA, not Randy's.
But they wouldn't say whose it was.
Which, to your point, like, I feel like it's something, like, we should know.
Maybe have a right to know.
Or at least the people of Kansas have a right to know.
No? I mean, yeah. Because if you find a foot, it more than likely means the rest of the body is not alive.
Who does it belong to?
Right. And like. I don't know.
Okay. So they leave the foot alone.
But the fact that Steve found it is still, like, a little bonkers, right?
Yeah. But maybe that's all it is.
Like this just weird, odd detail in a story full of weird, odd details.
And unfortunately, Steve's no longer alive, so we couldn't even go directly to him and ask him about it.
And the hits just keep coming because about a year after Randy vanished from that farm, the farm burns down.
Yeah. Betty told us that when the house on that property burned to the ground, there wasn't a doubt in anyone's mind that it was intentional.
And the Leavenworth County Sheriff Herb Nye says, quote, there might have been some suspicious origin to it.
Was there any significance to the timing of it being burned down?
Like, were police starting to like want to search it?
Right, like that's my thing too because we are like a year out.
Why now? Like what would be the benefit of if it was intentional and related to Randy?
Why now? Now, there has never been anything said publicly to like indicate that they were going to search it or that something was there or that like nothing.
Or they were like honing in on this area.
Nothing. Right. Now, we did talk to Betty a little bit about this.
Again, she's like the family spokesperson.
And she said like the consensus like among most people in the area, they do think it has nothing to do with Randy.
But again, it's just one of those weird things.
It's like, and again, is this a product of a small town where it's like, of course, he finds the foot because he's one of 300 people.
Right, if a foot's here, one of the 300 people have to find it.
Right, and if it's a house fire, like, okay, like, the odds that it was somewhere he, like, was recently...
Is still pretty high because it's a town of 300 people.
What's suspicious and what's the product of being a small town?
I don't know. Right.
So by spring of 1990, this is now some two years into Randy's disappearance.
With no new developments, his parents get very vocal about how angry they are about this.
They point to a couple of things that they're frustrated with specifically, Like the fact that the authorities keep passing them off from one person to the next, to the next, from county attorney to the detectives to sheriffs to undersheriff and on and on and on.
And they're also frustrated by how law enforcement is handling the case.
Alberta tells Fox 4 that it's only after that foot is found that the sheriff's office asks for some of Randy's clothing.
But not a minute before.
Again, like would have been great five weeks out when we were searching the place.
And now that they have the foot that we know, you know, now to be not his, they're like, hey, it might be good for us to have something like this.
Harold and Alberta are frustrated that police will not give them access to the files as well, and that no kind of, like, formal inquisition, which is, like, similar to a grand jury, they're frustrated that no formal inquisition has been held to force people to answer questions under oath, something
that Randy's dad, Harold, claims authorities told him was going to take place, like, back in early 1989, yet here they are in 1990, like, still hasn't happened.
Are Randy's parents still thinking that something happened to Randy at the farm?
I think they're just thinking something happened to Randy.
Like they're just wanting any answers they can get.
And they just don't think authorities have been aggressive enough to get those answers.
And as far as the party goes, like Harold does believe that there's discrepancies from that night.
And as we've seen, I mean, it's a little hard to pin down Randy's movements.
No one even knows exactly when he left the party, right?
So what might the kids at the party or the parents who hosted the party say if they were under oath?
Would it be different than like him hawing or whatever?
And let's not forget Steve, who's like popping up all over this story.
What might he say under oath about the night that Randy disappeared?
But this isn't to say that the leeches are like focused on the party.
When they come out and really start getting in front of the media, they also point to that story from the early days of the guy who said that he saw a body in the cave.
They feel like that wasn't explored enough.
And they're obviously not the only ones frustrated, because according to Harold, some police files mysteriously appear in his mailbox.
Fox. Like someone on the inside knows or feels like there could be something more that can be done.
That's not happening.
All over this story.
What might he say under oath about the night that Randy disappeared?
But this isn't to say that the leeches are like focused on the party when they come out and really start getting in front of the media.
They also point to that story from the early days of the guy who said that he saw a body in the cave.
They feel like that wasn't explored And they're obviously not the only ones frustrated because, according to Harold, some police files mysteriously appear in his mailbox.
Like someone on the inside knows or feels like there could be something more that can be done that's not happening.
Yes. Now, what exactly these files point to is a little unclear.
And we specifically asked Betty about what was in them, but she declined to share those details.
And from what I can tell, no one has ever seen them.
Like even years later, when his parents try to sue for the records in Randy's case, they don't appear to produce those files to enter them into evidence.
So I don't know why.
It's something that the judge actually points to and she like denies them.
She's like, you didn't even show us what you have.
Because they bring it up and they're like, you want to compare it to what's there, what's not there.
Like you didn't show it.
So it's weird how under lock and key these files are.
And ultimately, all in all, the leeches don't get the inquisition that they were after.
So Randy's parents are frustrated, maybe even a little desperate.
And at one point, they even go on the Jerry Springer show to talk about Randy.
The episode that they appeared on revolves around missing children and a psychic was involved.
And this is what's allowed.
So off camera, the psychic tells the leeches that they think Randy is alive.
but the minute the cameras come on the psychic reverses course and tells them that Randy is dead which of course like they just burst into tears and having grown up sneaking clips of the Jerry Springer show having just watched the like expose thing oh my god this was totally orchestrated I feel like
this is exactly what these shows did this was the point this is the reaction they wanted horrible and cruel A whole bunch of other words I don't even want to say, but like, I think, again, I think what this points to is just Randy's parents' desperation.
They will do anything, they will go on Jerry Springer if it gets the word out about their son who they're trying to find.
According to the Lawrence Journal World, in June of 1990, it's so bad that they send a petition with 12 ,000 signatures that they had collected to state officials to make sure Randy's disappearance continues to be investigated.
Which when you think about 12 ,000 in 1990 that you had to do by hand...
When you live in a town of 300 people.
These people were putting in the work, hitting the streets.
I think like when it takes for us to get 12 ,000 signatures so we could like put something out on the waves, like we still have to push.
Yeah. Unbelievable.
But like all this stuff that they're doing, like it's building momentum.
And it seems like a little bit of magic happens in July of 1990.
That is when a possible suspect in Randy's disappearance comes onto law enforcement's radar.
Although I get the impression that this guy was never not on their radar.
It's just the first time that things really pick up.
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All right, I want to back up and tell you a quick story so you have some context around this, like, potential POI I'm going to talk about.
So, according to the Lawrence Journal world, there is this guy named Everett Bishop.
Everett lived on a property a few miles from Randy's home, and he was from the same area.
Apparently, Everett Bishop had been complaining to this friend of his that some teens were quote -unquote terrorizing him.
They're like shooting guns at his house.
So this friend introduces Everett to an ex -con, an all -around dangerous guy named Eric Montgomery.
Eric is supposed to help protect Everett from these teens.
Well, Everett ends up going missing.
And it's not long before the police come knocking on Eric's door.
When they do, they discover that Eric is in possession of a stolen car.
And that car leads them to this other guy, Cheryl Gary Brinkley.
Now, he's a car thief who was friends with Eric.
And police suspect that these guys had something to do with Everett's disappearance, but they can't make it stick until they finally offer Eric a deal.
And this gets into, like, some finger pointing, right?
Like, so Eric points the finger at Cheryl, blames him for Everett's May 1990 disappearance, and he says murder.
Cheryl, of course, points the finger back at Eric.
And during his trial, when he does, he, like, also just mentions that Eric had something to do with Randy's disappearance.
Like, this is happening at the trial.
So there's so much back and forth here.
There's even a third missing man, but in the hopes of, like, keeping everyone with me here.
Like, basically, I'll try and be concise.
So basically it said that Everett and this third missing guy were killed and put in barrels.
Those barrels then never found.
So maybe that might not even be true.
But it got me thinking, could that have been what happened to Randy, too?
But again, there's no evidence of this.
But like all the theories we have, there seems to be no evidence of it.
Now, some of the defense teams try to get their hands on Randy's file to see if there is some connection there, right?
Like, he just, like, blurts out this name and everyone's like, wait, what?
Yeah. So, and it's not just that he's, like, he mentions him.
What they end up finding out is that Eric was considered by KBI as a suspect in Randy's case.
Like, or at least that's what he says when he, like, blurts this out.
But is it true? Is it not true?
I can't tell you because the files are sealed.
But we're still kind of at square one because none of this told us how Randy's disappearance has anything to do with Eric at all.
Yeah, other than, like, Eric saying that he was a suspect.
Right. And if, if, if, if.
big capital letter IF this does somehow tie back to Eric and like protecting question mark Everett or like getting retribution why kill Randy?
I know it doesn't make sense and why kill just Randy?
like teens plural were terrorizing Everett and one kid goes missing in his car right so for what it's worth Betty doesn't totally think that this is like a relevant line of inquiry because she doesn't think Randy was one of those teens And she thinks there was a slim chance that Randy even crossed paths
with Everett. She said maybe through a friend of his dad, like, did some babysitting.
I don't even know. You also have to think, like, oh, did he just get home from this party that nobody sees him going missing from?
Like, all the things don't really line up for me with this one.
Everything has to be, like, so perfect for them to even cross paths.
Yeah. They can't connect Randy and Eric together with any kind of certainty.
And while that's a lot to process, it could be a whole lot of nothing.
Like I said, it's one of my least favorite theories.
but one that like people spend a lot of time on and I feel like it's one of those theories where they're it's a theory because there's nothing concrete right like everything is in here right but like because we don't we can't definitively say that they ever even talked it almost feels more likely that they
could have and this is the answer and this is why we don't know for sure and what I always say is like what do I not know like if we got the files maybe there is something really meaningful in there but like we're all blind to it I don't know eventually Eric and this other guy both end up in prison in connection with the other
disappearances but eric was never arrested in connection to randy's disappearance and it's never even officially tied to him in any way as far as i can tell like they never make an official connection oh and this is like another wild part when you think about like the leeches experience in all of this they
don't learn about all of this until like many many years later they're not learning about this as this is happening the way they find out about eric in this whole group is there's like this group of three friends who just got obsessed with the case and they started doing like their own crime junkie
style sleuthing and they are the ones who found out about this and shared the details with his parents so this isn't even coming from like law enforcement court records involving eric well i think that's where they get it but it's not like direct that to the leeches it's coming from these kind of three
random people. Hey, as two random people who started a podcast, yes.
But anyways, back in 1990, the leeches are unaware of this development, and they're still focused on demanding more action.
And so maybe because of that, in August of 1990, Leavenworth County finally decides to do a more thorough search of that cave in Edwardsville that the person had pointed them to years ago.
So this time, they bring in search dogs, And once and for all, they want to put this rumor to bed that Randy's body was ever in this cave, as this one eyewitness claimed.
Now, it doesn't appear that anything's found.
But according to the Lawrence World Journal, Randy's dad says that he receives some photos purported to have been taken in this same cave.
And it's like a photo of a dead pigeon on a cross and strange markings on the walls.
And there's apparently even like fire rings and tire tracks.
But authorities refute that any of this stuff is actually found.
So you can— And even if it was there— Years later.
Like, I also feel like kids are weird.
Like— Accurate. I mean, but you can see what—so this doesn't clear up anything.
No. Like, again, we've got maybe weird stuff, maybe not, all two years later, and it doesn't put anyone's suspicions or rumors to bed.
Or confirm any of them.
Right. And eventually, Betty told us that those caves get bulldozed.
So it's not like any more answers are going to be coming.
She said Harold was told that Leavenworth County gave that order to bulldoze them.
But then ultimately, Leavenworth County said they had nothing to do with it.
So like, this just keeps going back to the fact that the leeches, I feel like, can never get their heads wrapped around the truth.
Like, even the stuff that should be simple isn't simple.
Well, and I feel like so many agencies are giving them kind of the runaround.
Yeah. So 1991 rolls in, and with it comes a shred of good news.
The governor at the time, Joan Finney, issues an executive order basically stating that law enforcement at least have some belief that maybe a crime has been committed in Randi's disappearance.
And as part of this order, she includes a $5 ,000 reward.
So it finally feels like a step in the right direction for Randi's parents.
But next comes several steps back.
The Topeka Capital Journal reports that after fighting for more insight into the investigative reports on their son's disappearance, Harold and Alberta get a whopping 60 pages to look over.
And apparently in these 60 pages is just information that they had given investigators in the first place.
And this doesn't appear to be anything having to do with the files that they supposedly got in their mailbox.
Just information that they'd shared over the years through tips or their own interviews or whatever.
Right. And to make matters worse, by 1993, those satanic cult rumors come roaring back.
At this point, it's like the only consistent in this case, really.
And coming along for the ride is a show we all know and love, Unsolved Mysteries.
So as we discussed earlier, the Leeches were looking for any help they could find.
And they get a little in the summer of 1993 when this guy named Terry comes into their lives.
He says that he is a research journalist there to help prepare an episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Randy's case.
So Alberta and Harold watch as Terry truly like investigates Randy's disappearance.
He spends over several months like digging deep.
And at one point, he even pools the information he's gathering with one of the detectives reviewing Randy's case.
And to the leeches' surprise, Terry appears to really help the case.
And in July, before an episode even is set to air or anything, police actually arrest three men in connection with Randy's disappearance.
On the CrimeWire podcast, Rob, who we talked about earlier, he was that classmate of Randy's who police questioned, he claims that at least one of these men that were arrested was Randy's friend, Steve.
Steve found the foot, Steve.
Steve, Steve. But as quickly as these guys are arrested, they're back on the street.
Literally, I think within like two days.
Well, wait. What did they have on them to begin with?
You don't know, do you?
I don't know. No, so here's the thing.
So, no, something really funky happens here.
Because when they're released, police just say that they had brought the guys in for, quote, investigative purposes, whatever that means.
Like, they're not even like.
You didn't bring them in, though.
You arrested them. Right.
It feels like they're trying to downplay what happened, right?
Yeah. To arrest someone, you have to have an arrest warrant.
You need probable cause to get a warrant.
You need someone to sign off on this.
It's not just investigative purposes.
Yeah. And the Lawrence Journal world, according to them, arrest warrants were issued by the assistant Leavenworth County attorney.
OK. So it sounds like these were legit arrests.
Yeah. But I think they were covering their ass after the fact.
And like I said, trying to really downplay it because Terry's involvement in this whole thing begins to unravel.
And it all starts with him holding this, like, three -hour press conference the next day describing what his investigation uncovered.
Three hours? Three.
It's like, what is this, a John Bonet Ramsey episode?
Yeah. And this happens, like, at the Leech's house.
And here's what Terry claims to have found.
Terry says that he's uncovered a satanic cult that has been in operation for over 15 years.
He also claims that Randy was killed in front of 50 people in a satanic ritual and that two other people were killed trying to stop Randy's murder.
But he wouldn't say who those other people were, only that information is like about them or whatever it is, is in police records.
And then he also alludes to the fact that, like, by the way, Terry might not be his real name for like his own protection.
And like sometimes he refers to himself as Lee.
Who's Lee? Does this guy actually work for Unsolved Mysteries?
Bingo. He does not.
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Now, Unsolved Mysteries did admit that they were interested in covering Randy's case.
In fact, they had spoken to the leeches about it back in April.
So this was a real possibility.
It wasn't out of nowhere, out of the...
That's why they believed it when Terry showed up.
What I don't understand is like the timing of it.
It feels really wild.
Like did Terry somehow know that Unsolved Mysteries was looking into this?
Or was it just a chance that he like reached out at the same time?
Right. Or was he trying to like pull all this stuff together and like pitch it to them?
I don't know. But whatever his intentions, it sounds like eventually Unsolved Mysteries covering this case like falls apart.
Although at least one source says that they did shoot an episode, but just never aired it.
I don't know why they would do that.
But I think and actually maybe the reason is this whole like Terry slash Lee thing.
I don't know. Okay, sorry, I'm still wrapping my mind around this Terry Lee situation.
Did the police make those arrests based off of Terry's info then?
I don't think it was just Terry.
I mentioned before that he had teamed up with a detective on the case.
Which is like somehow worse.
Well, everyone says she was a little green, maybe she was a little too eager.
And it sounds like these two presented the deputy county attorney old evidence, but like with a new twist.
According to the Lawrence Journal World, Terry also claimed to have new evidence, but, like, wouldn't show them because he was saving it for the Unsolved Mysteries episode.
That's not how that works.
Right. You can't do, like, an IOU for evidence in a probable cause, like, arrest warrant affidavit.
Like, what? If you're working for Unsolved Mysteries, you kind of want the mysteries to be solved, right?
Well, I guess not for that show.
But, like, the end goal.
Yeah, I don't, it's all bananas.
Continue, Terry Lee.
Whatever the reason, whatever IOU they gave, they got the green light to make the arrest.
But then once, I think once they made the arrest, the evidence they promised is either double -checked or never materializes, and everyone realizes they have a huge problem on their hand, and the guys are released.
Did Terry slash Lee get in trouble for his involvement?
That's kind of a silly question.
I don't even know what the crime is or would be.
the obstruction i think but like somehow or like lying to police yeah i don't know but he walks away from all of this of course even though he claims that there was a warrant out for his arrest like as far as i can see there wasn't i don't know if he technically didn't break any laws or they just wanted
this thing to go away fast or maybe the arrest warrant isn't his real name and nobody knows it i don't know and listen i don't think anyone like thought initially he was coming in there to do anything shady i think everyone had good intentions but like it just shows you got to do some due diligence
on like the people you work with that especially if you're the police department right and you can't blame the local residents for like hoping he's legit and for freaking herald and alberta who just were like dying for anyone and they keep things moving contacted by the real unsolved mysteries right
so i mean where do they stand on terry did they even know what this press conference in their house was going to be about they were like totally shocked oh my god i don't think they had any idea that this was the road terry was going down but i also think strangely that they didn't even totally blame
terry or lee or whatever his name was because like i said they were just so desperate for help but that help never comes and the detective involved did get fired but her superiors claim it was because she didn't show up for work so i don't know like and then like there's a time after this where like
her and terry terry lee whatever disappear not like disappear like missing but just like get out of like the limelight like they just gotta go underground ghost yeah and randy's case kind of continues down the same path no answers no randy all the way through the 90s and into the 2000s with just like
little starts and stops along the way like in 2001 alberta and harold have randy declared legally dead in 2003 they watch as the sheriff's office and kbi take another close look but it doesn't appear that this moves the needle and it's not until 2014 when they start to hear all about Eric Montgomery.
That's when that happens.
That's when they begin to wonder what else police might not have told them.
Like, if they're learning about that in 2014 and it happened in 1990, like, all the more reason we're like, OK, like, there are things that could be potentially done, avenues that haven't been explored.
Sure. So in 2016, they sue the sheriff's office to get records in Randy's case released.
But that suit fails.
And the short of it is, like, the judge says that just because the leeches are critical of the investigation doesn't mean that the records should be made public.
They say that that could set a precedence for anyone to criticize an investigation in order just to get a criminal case records released.
So at every turn, Alberta and Harold end up back where they first started, without their son, without answers.
And despite the reward money in Randy's case being as high as $30 ,000, no one ever comes forward to talk or name names.
I mean, what if there's nothing to talk about?
I just keep coming back to the fact that Randy's still missing.
But so is the car. The car was never found.
Like, what if this was just a tragic accident and they went into the water somewhere?
And we've seen that before, right?
Where it's like areas, ponds or whatever, were like searched and then found like decades later.
And you're not alone in thinking that.
So according to an article in the Kansas City Star from 2018, actually one of the former investigators on the case is convinced that Randy is in the water somewhere.
He really thinks that Randy would have taken that back road home that we discussed earlier.
Like specifically because if you are feeling weird and you're driving at night, like you don't want to run into police, so you take the back roads.
And that would take him on Golden Road.
And back then there was this single lane bridge with no guardrails that went over Stranger Creek, which is exactly what it sounds like, a creek.
So it's possible that Randy went off the bridge and into the water.
Which is exactly what it sounds like, a creek.
So it's possible that Randy went off the bridge and into the water.
And despite people thinking that the creek was too shallow, there is actually an example that a car could sink there.
So the summer before Randy disappeared, the movie Kansas filmed there, and they pushed a car into that creek and it sank.
But you mentioned before that the creek had been searched.
They were, including this one again and again.
Randy's car wasn't found.
But I think this investigator's point is whether Stranger Creek or the Kansas River, other cars have been found in water far from where they actually went in.
So, like, sometimes they're pushed along by the currents.
The other thought in the article is that the car could have entered a bowl at the bottom of, like, a river or something.
And over time, that kind of, like, fills up with sand and sediment and, like, buries the car.
So, like I was saying, like, it's still so wild to me that you wouldn't find it back then.
But that doesn't mean it's not there.
And to even further back up the possibility of an accident, in 2017, Toni Anderson, a University of Missouri -Kansas City student, went missing along with her car.
And everyone was convinced she was kidnapped, but tragically she was found in her car in the Missouri River.
And I guess that's just the thing that makes the most sense to me.
Like, if Randy found his keys and drove away— You said at the beginning, that's like Occam's razor.
That's the— That's the most likely thing to have happened here.
but the only thing that has me pausing and like rethinking literally everything is there's so much weirdness so much so much weirdness i can't i can't let any of it go uh so much weirdness like the fact that a man from topeka who at one point helped the leeches search for randy was reportedly found
shot to death along with his wife listen there are all these like like there are all these things i haven't even told you like these tiny and is it is it again this like small town is it we've talked about this like once you're in the middle of a true crime case like there's a microscope on your life
that would reveal a bunch of weird things like how much weirdness is in my own life and the people surrounding me but like nobody knows or even I don't know because because no one's investigators no one's looking into it right cue all the like armchair detectives being like what's Ashley hiding but anyways
this this is another weird thing I just want to talk about real quick so this man from Topeka police rule his and his wife's death as a murder -suicide But again, it's just like another weird thing.
They help search and this thing happens.
It doesn't mean like they're immune to tragedy, but another weird thing.
And another weird thing.
Remember the farmhouse where the party was?
Remember that caught fire?
So it's actually not the only fire in this story.
According to the Lawrence Journal -World, after the Leeches bought a car to replace the one that disappeared with Randy, it caught fire and burned in their backyard.
An inspector reportedly said that a gas line deteriorated and burst, but the Leaches thought that it was arson.
And I've got more arson for you.
Good old Steve also apparently had a brush with a blaze.
Harold Leach reportedly said that at some point Steve was living in the back of this store somewhere in Linwood.
And apparently the section where he lived, so like the back of this store, unexpectedly caught fire.
Now, I couldn't find more on this.
I wish Steve was still alive so we could ask him about this.
But again, he's not.
Want a little more weirdness?
Because, like, it doesn't stop?
The Lawrence Journal world also noted that Randy's dog, Crackers, just, like, up and banished about four months after Randy went missing.
Crackers is never found.
And I'm saving the most bizarre for last.
So there is this moment in the case where Randy's dad, Harold, is told by a psychic to go to the shores of Stranger Creek, where, again, some thought Randy could be located.
So Harold goes, and he finds something written in the mud along the shore.
It says, Randy Leach was here.
Okay. 3 -29 -91. 3 -29 -91.
Other than being after Randy went missing, is there any significance to that date?
No. And like this, this is so weird because like the psychic lived in Florida.
So it's not like, it's not like a plant.
Right. Like they set it up.
And why would you do that date?
He doesn't know what to make of it.
I don't know what to make of it.
Police don't know what to make of it.
So they don't really pursue it.
We asked Betty about it.
I think she's kind of in the same boat.
Like, no one knows what to make of this thing.
The other thing I don't have is, like, the date that his dad was sent to the shore.
I was going to ask, like, when did this happen?
Was it around 91? Was it, like, the same date?
Dude, I don't know.
But isn't that weird?
That is so wild. And, like, I'm not even going to ask the question because you don't have the answer.
So we don't know if this was like maybe like a tribute that a friend did.
Like if they did. Well, again, the date to me doesn't make sense.
It seems so, especially if we don't.
And in this small town, like this is something that's like kind of known about his case.
You would think at some point they'd come forward and be like, oh, that was me.
Ignore it. Yeah, if you're hearing this for the first time and that was you, like might want to let the leeches know, the police know.
But the date still doesn't make sense, even if that was.
Now, as recently as 2021, more searching was done.
But the searchers found nothing after checking multiple water locations, even with newer technology.
And even more interesting, they were denied access to a pond located on the former property of, wait for it, Everett Bishop.
So remember, he went missing himself.
He's connected to Eric Montgomery.
Eric Montgomery is a possible suspect in Randy's disappearance.
According to Betty, at the time, this property appears to still be owned by the Bishop family like now.
So, or at least when they were trying to do this.
So it might not come as a surprise that they weren't willing to let someone search their pond.
But they also claim that police had been to the property in the past.
I don't know if the pond was searched then.
So like, that's one spot that might still not have been checked.
But I don't know for sure.
And I guess I keep thinking, if this is foul play, someone did an incredible job.
at hiding that car?
Hiding it if it's, like, buried or in water, but also could have been, like, destroyed.
You could have, like, disassembled it.
You could have burned it.
You could have taken it out of state.
I mean, there are a lot of ways to get rid of a car.
Now, new theories about this case continue to pop up.
Other potential suspects, like people who might have lived in the area around that time.
Like, there's a name that keeps getting, like, mentioned in Reddit forums.
I'm not going to name names, but there's speculation that Randy's car could have been parked in this person's driveway, like, at the time of the party or whatever.
And I asked Betty about this, and she confirmed that there was sort of this shared driveway situation, and she even speculated, like, others have that Randy maybe could have ended up, like, in a neighboring house, that something could have happened there.
But, like, cool. Something could have happened anywhere because we don't know where Randy is.
Randy's case is still open.
According to KSHB 41, in later years, two retired detectives began to help Brandy's family try to get some answers to his disappearance.
But they were met with some roadblocks from authorities who once again refused to share any information or let them look at the case files.
Which makes me wonder if they do have some further investigation.
End quote. But a former Edwardsville police employee who spoke to Fox 4 said the sheriff's office refused to even take the report.
In their emails to us, the undersheriff of Leavenworth County said, I have heard the allegations of impropriety in the investigation and feel this is unfair and untrue.
In speaking with and or working with skilled investigators that have worked this case, I have no doubt regarding their skill, conviction of mission, and desire to see this case to its best conclusion and answers for Randy and his family as well as the community.
End quote. We also tried reaching out to KBI, but we haven't heard back from them, and Leavenworth County Attorney's Office, who we reached out to in regard to Randy's file.
They refer us back to the sheriff's office for any specific questions.
But listen, if anyone out there is connected to any of these investigative agencies and you hear this and you want to talk to us, please reach out.
We still have a ton of questions.
And so does Randy's family, who has waited over 36 years for answers.
It's hard enough to lose a child and it's even harder not knowing what happened to them or if by some miracle they're still out there somewhere.
Randy's father, Harold, unfortunately, passed away in 2021, never knowing what happened to Randy.
According to Betty, he kept a list of 97 unanswered questions that he had surrounding his son's disappearance.
And it's a list that we plan on poring over.
Randy's mother, Alberta, is still alive, and we reached out to her too.
But as you can imagine, talking about Randy's case is very emotional for her.
And it's not something she felt like she could do right now.
And I can't even blame her.
She's been talking about this case for 36 years.
That's far too long.
She deserves some closure one way or another.
And Randy, wherever he is, deserves to finally come home.
So if you know anything about the disappearance of Randy Leach on April 15, 1988, in Linwood, Kansas, or maybe if you saw his car, a 1985 Dodge 600 sedan with Kansas plate LVJ 8721, please contact the Kansas Bureau of Investigation at 1 -800 -572 -7463.
For more information, you can also visit the website InSearchOfRandyLeach .com.
We'll link to that in our show notes.
you can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkiepodcast .com and be sure to follow us on instagram at crimejunkie podcast brit and i are actually off next week we will be back the following week with a brand new episode but make sure to stick around for the good segment.
All right, Brett, now back to our regularly scheduled feel good content.
My favorite thing. What do you have for us?
Today, we have a submission from Autumn.
Hi, guys. I have been listening to y 'all's podcast since 2020, and I fell in love with true crime.
I've always been interested in crime, even as a child watching CSI, Dateline, etc.
Same. I used to sing the CSI theme song with my brother when he was like, itty bitty, baby David.
But y 'all's podcast opened the door to more conversations about crime and violence, especially partner violence, that more people should be having.
I actually work as a victim slash sexual assault advocate for my local county in Texas and just received my national certification of credentials.
And y 'all's podcast helped fuel that passion for advocacy work.
Hearing all the stories weekly of women and men killed and assaulted, the statistics you present in your episodes, the advice on how to handle missing person reports and handle law enforcement have all been things I've used to excel in my work as an advocate.
it. In my interview, I actually mentioned the seven times to leave statistic that I learned from your podcast.
My job is to help lessen the trauma victims experience from being subject to violent crime.
And I can't tell you how many women and men I see dealing with horrible abuse.
I use my position as a way to advocate for their strength to leave, provide them resources to get out, and let them know they're not alone in their fight.
Every week, the stories you tell on the podcast remind me why my work will never end and why I do what I do.
Every episode reminds me why victim advocates are such an important asset to victims and their families.
Thank you both for the work you do advocating and for inspiring people like me to join advocacy fields too.
I love it. Get it, Autumn.
Oh my goodness. That's amazing.
Honestly, one of my favorite things is when people have a career in something, whether it's true crime or the community or obviously because of like something that they've heard.
I literally ran into a girl at a conference just like last week and she's like, listen, I do like ad sales, but I actually think of going back to school to like really follow my dream and like make a difference.
I'm like, yes, yes, do it.
Yes, I was selling software before this.
You can do anything.
And what's crazy is like, I would never have said that.
Like, I would have never thought of podcasting as an advocacy field, but we are.
Let's go, girl. Amazing.
Thank you, Autumn. Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production.
So what do you think, Chuck?
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