Welcome to this masterclass edition of Negotiate Anything.
With over 1700 episodes featuring some of the world's brightest minds, we've carefully curated a couple of powerful conversations for you.
What makes this so special is that you'll hear how different experts from different industries approach the same challenge in their own unique ways.
Our goal is to give you multiple perspectives so you can build your own unique style.
Success doesn't look the same for everyone.
And in this masterclass, you'll see exactly why.
Let's dive in.
Hello, my fellow negotiators.
Did you know I once had a listener share that after listening to our podcast she was able to negotiate a 53000 raise?
And you know what I told her?
Where is my commission?
Just kidding.
But the real story is this was after years of being too afraid to negotiate.
But after listening to a couple of episodes on salary negotiation, she felt equipped with the confidence and tools to ask for the payment she deserved.
And that my friends is the power of negotiation.
And, through a subscription to our new membership community, Negotiate Anything Premium.
We're taking that power to the next level.
With customized playlists based on our most popular topics, you'll be able to find the episodes you're looking for much faster and much easier.
A tool that comes in handy as you're getting ready to prepare for an important negotiation.
Even I find myself asking which episode should I listen to before heading into a high-stakes negotiation.
And you might be saying, but Kwame...
You're the ones having the conversations, but I forget, so I listen to the episodes multiple times, okay.
Now, here's the thing about Negotiate Anything Premium.
It'll allow you to dive deeper into the specific situations you're facing, whether it's a salary negotiation, an important business meeting or an emotional conversation with a loved one.
Bonus for you.
In addition to ad-free and extended episodes, premium members will have exclusive access to solo episodes and insights from yours truly.
And as you know, it will be very dry and very boring because I have no sense of humor.
And this is something that you all have also be offering personalized answers to some of your most burning questions through our Ask Me Anything feature.
If you've been enjoying our traditional feed, imagine the value a premium subscription can offer.
I've felt the benefit of negotiation firsthand, and it is life changing.
Many of you don't know this, but my journey has taken me from people pleaser to a confident negotiator, because I was able to do two simple things.
Through negotiation, I was able to first change my mindset, and then I was able to improve my skill set.
And that is what will happen for you when you join premium.
I've already seen the impact of these skills and the power of this model, not only in my own life, but also in the lives and careers of our clients all around the world, my family, my friends and our team here at ANI.
And I am confident that it can do the same for you.
Now, are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life?
Check the link in the show notes to learn more.
I'm excited to continue the conversation.
I'll catch you later.
Vis, thanks for joining us today.
Oh, I am so happy to be here.
Very humbled and very honored.
Thank you for having me.
No, it is my pleasure.
And listeners, we have been vibing for the last 48 minutes.
So we're going to put some of the clips of our earlier conversation at the end of this interview.
So check this out.
I was excited to chat with you before, but now I'm even more excited.
So how would you let the listeners know about yourself and what you do?
So my name is Wies Bradby.
It's a funky combination of my very Dutch background, right?
My first name, Wies, and then Bradby is due to my very British husband.
Have grown up here in the Netherlands, lived across the globe for about a decade, both in Asia and in Switzerland.
We were for many years
And there I combined my background of being a lawyer.
So we were talking about this before right here on this in our earlier chat.
So I was a lawyer for many years because I was obsessed with negotiation.
That led me to become a lawyer.
And then, when I left the law for very good reasons, I went into HR and I combined both those backgrounds right to the negotiation piece with the HR piece.
And the fact that I'm a raging feminist together in the work that I do now, which is I run a business called Women in Negotiation, WIN, where we coach women to negotiate their careers and their salaries.
And we do that with great big freaking success.
Last year, the average salary increase that my winners, as we call them, lovingly reported was 93, which is fairly insane.
In my book and testament to what can happen when you invest time and energy into this very important life and professional skill.
Testament to the great power of a community of women coming together and supporting each other.
So I'm incredibly proud of that.
And I'm having a ton of fun doing it.
We talked earlier about hacking life.
I really feel like I hacked life in getting to do this work.
Yeah.
This is great.
And also make sure you let them know about your podcast too.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
I have a podcast as well.
I should say we have a podcast because Katarina, my dear friend and podcast producer, is behind all of this.
Yeah, the podcast is called Winning with Beast Bradby.
And it basically what we do in the sessions that we have is that we have coaching sessions, very intimate coaching sessions that i do with women at various stages in their career that are struggling with various challenges, and i help them in those sessions to overcome those challenges right.
I help them move forward and that's proven to be really quite useful for our listeners.
We often get feedback of yeah so, based on episode four, i did x, I said and that worked out tremendously well, et cetera.
It's very practical, very hands-on role modeling, basically of how you can have these challenging conversations at work.
It's also a lot of fun actually producing it.
So yeah, there's that. i love it well let's dive right into what it is that you do because your focus is coaching women incredible success rate listeners i want to reiterate this 93 success rate that is an a plus on average yeah their salaries.
It's insane.
That's great.
It's so important.
That's just so encouraging for all of us because it shows that it's doable.
Once you have the mindset and skill set and you put it into action, then you can achieve the success that you want.
And I think that's a really important thing for people to take away.
Yeah.
Now, I love that you're stressing that, right?
Because it's so true.
It started off with me, obviously, obsessing about this subject in my own life and career, right?
Wanting to negotiate my job offers and the promotions that I made, combining my knowledge of negotiation within those situations, right.
I was able to get great results for myself.
And based on that, my friends and the people around me started asking me for advice.
And then they were at least as successful as I was.
So I realized it isn't some kind of magical thing that I had been told through all my years as a lawyer and going to law school et cetera, that it was some kind of special thing, special skill that I had that others didn't, that it was replicable, right.
That others could do it as well.
I mean, my results didn't even come near the 93%.
I was already really proud when I got a 35% salary increase or whatever, right?
But these results and the consistency of them as well, right?
I think, showcases that.
Indeed, this is a skill That anyone with the right commitment because that is important
There's no shortcut.
There is no quick and dirty tip and trick that's going to give you these massive results, right?
It is hard work.
But when you commit, everybody can learn it.
Genuinely, everybody can learn it.
So first of all, I agree with everything that you just said.
And I love everything that you just said.
And I realize I might have misunderstood your percentages.
So are you saying that 93 of the people who work with you are successful, or the average increase in salary is 93?
Wow.
Okay.
So there are so many layers to this because, first of all, shout out to negotiation power of negotiation.
That's great.
But also tell me what you think about this.
Might also suggest chronic underpayment of women in the workplace.
Yeah.
Well, we have those numbers, right?
We know that across the world.
If we're looking at The general pay gap that it sort of hovers around 20 for white women.
If we're extrapolating to women of color, if we're extrapolating to other minorities, the numbers get even more depressing.
I get emotional.
I get really freaking angry when I think about I get.
Now it goes all over and all the good kind right.
Like how hard these women have to work. to get equal pay, right?
Yeah, that is a huge issue.
I often have women coming to me at the point where they're just incredibly pissed because they've just found out that They have been replaced.
For example, they're leaving their job and they're replaced by somebody who gets 50 more, 60 more,
We have these things.
I have women where the issue isn't necessarily that, within their bracket, within the range that they have, that they're that underpaid, they're still within the range, maybe not at the top end or maybe not even at the median, but they're hovering at the bottom, but they're still within the range.
So we can't really say too much.
But they should be two levels higher.
They've just been not recognized for what they're capable of doing. they are super underpaid compared to the value that they put out compared to what in real life or in reality they should be on and that culmination has led to these wild increases is that we don't just look at the skill of negotiation within your bracket within the range for your role can we get a couple of dozen percentage points more right but what we actually do in the program is raise the ambition raise the expectation that they have for themselves and their place in the world so that they start jumping or making much bigger jumps That's where it gets really fun because once you start doing that, we're not talking about echo years, 15% more years, 20% more, 30% more.
Now we're talking the doubling or sometimes tripling.
We've had women who tripled their salaries in one jump, right?
In one move, doing that which is both testament to indeed, the potential of taking this particular piece of your career seriously, namely to getting recognition for it right.
But it's also a testament, of course, to how bad it was before, how they were underappreciated before.
Yeah, incredible.
It's disheartening but also encouraging that you're able to do this work, and i think one key word that i want to focus in on is program.
You have a program, not because i'm just shouting you out and making sure people who could use your services go to you, but also because implies that there's a process, there is a replicable model that you can put in place, And I think it is fascinating that you started off with ambition, raising their own ambition.
Can you go into that piece?
Yeah, to your first point, right?
Yes, there is a program.
I basically developed a communication model that covers the entire spectrum from figuring out what do I want.
What's my place in this world?
What's possible for me?
Where is the best match with my unique talents, skill set expertise, all the way to then having the other side see that, understand that, them wanting you desperately, being willing to pay whatever it takes to get you on board negotiating, sort of entering right in negotiation room with that spirit on the other side and you being completely confident in your own capacity yourself and then having that negotiation right all the way to signing.
So it's piece of communication right, so to say.
On that journey is what we cover in the program And that is intense.
That is hardcore.
That's 10 weeks.
I always say I own your ass for 10 weeks.
You're mine.
I am not a coach in the traditional sense of, well, you have all the answers inside yourself.
Let me just help you surface them.
I am the kind of coach more sort of trainer like this is what you do.
This is how you're going to do it.
I'll hold your hand, but you're going to do it, and now you can do it yourself right, that's what's led to these results.
Right, that model works for all women in their career negotiations, so they learn that.
Right, it's really training them on that, like i said.
Right, i tell them every step of the way what i need to do.
And then the other piece where they have to work really hard is not just internalizing that learning that but it's then personalizing that for lack of a better term to their specific situation through these homework exercises that I have them do.
That are pretty intense, right.
But where they have this model, that always works, but they make it perfectly fitting their situation.
And so that I think is part of everyone's success is that they have kind of a tailor made system right for them.
And then what's also beautiful about this system is that a year from now, or in two years from now, right when they are ready for the next step, they can do those exercises again, and then they're ready for that new step.
Right.
It perfectly fits that new situation.
So they can keep using it again and again and again, which is super fun to watch.
Right.
I've got clients who did a program five years ago.
And they're now on their third or fourth promotion.
Well, it's incredible work.
And then when you think about just practically how that changes people, it's not just that it changes their financial status.
It can lead to generational wealth that they can pass on.
Those are all true things.
But really what it sounds like too, is that it starts off with changing the way that they see themselves, and so there's a complete transformation, not just financially but also internally through the process.
100 warm and fuzzy tree huggy oprah winfrey right, let's kumbaya element to it which i always feel a bit funky about.
I mean, for me, negotiation is There is a science to it and there is art to it for sure.
But it's all kind of hard skill.
This is the bit where it all gets a bit fuzzy.
And yet I got to be real with you.
This is where indeed the transformation is and where the real upside is.
It's all mindset.
And I say this all the time.
I bore everyone around me, right?
Everything is mindset, but it really is.
80 of the work that we do inside the program.
Isn't that skill, isn't that strategy, isn't the tactics.
It's important.
It's a foundational piece for credits due, right?
It's a really important piece.
And the biggest... thing that we do is indeed focusing on mindset or confidence, right?
Sort of another word for it.
And really working through all these limiting beliefs that they've been building up and growing up and being raised a certain way.
As girls, we get a very different upbringing from the one that the boys get, right?
And so working through those stories, Ripping them out right at the core and then replacing them for much more empowered beliefs about themselves and indeed, what they are capable of.
And that's the piece that always tremendously surprises me is that I work with phenomenal women.
And I think it's my unique skill in this world.
Like I said earlier, I'm not that special.
There's one thing I can do better than most other people.
And that is that I see the light in others.
I see how great they are.
So when I speak to my clients right the first time around because we always have a conversation at first to see if there's a mutual fit right.
I'm very selective in who I work with, specifically related to people's commitment right to do the work.
Are they ready for that?
I can see often very clearly what they're capable of.
And sometimes they are very high up in their respective trees, right, in their careers.
They are already very far advanced.
Sometimes they're much more junior.
It's a very diverse group of women that I work with.
But consistently.
Whether they're high up already or whether they're still starting out, they don't see it.
And I'm sitting here scratching my head going, you are magnificent.
You have so much to give to this world.
Right.
But bringing that to light so that it isn't just me seeing it, but that they really feel it, that they really not just know it intellectually but own it.
Right.
Genuinely feel it.
Internalize it.
That's the energy that I need them to have.
And when that happens, that's the good stuff.
That's how we get to these massive steps in their lives.
What's interesting is that a lot of the women that come to me they may come because they're frustrated and they're unhappy with what they're earning.
It's never about the money.
When we ask for feedback right, I've got 100 success rate, in the sense that i've never had somebody not be happy with the outcomes that they got right.
Sometimes it takes longer than 10 weeks, right.
It may even take quite a bit longer, especially when they raise their ambitions massively, which i wholeheartedly encourage and i'm a big fan of right.
But then it may take a little bit longer than the program, or sometimes a lot longer, but at any rate, i've never had anybody be unhappy or dissatisfied with what they've achieved.
And what they often focus on is what's happened inside of them, and that's the fuzzy bit right where i have this sort of love-hate relationship with woohoo, as i call it, right with all of that can't really touch it intangible stuff that, as a lawyer, you know.
Everything i do is research based.
Right, i'm really focused on bringing the data, not the drama, as i always say right, like really being data driven in everything that i do and really being results driven.
And now we're entering that fuzzy era of I feel so much more confident.
And I'm like, how does that show up for you?
How can we make that real, so to say?
But it's always that vision that they have then for themselves that increases through what they're able to do through the program.
I live for data.
I just, it's the best.
It really is.
And much better than, I mean, the numbers, like I said earlier, I'm a freaking hippie.
The numbers are important to me because they signal results, right?
I like the data.
But more importantly, because of what they can do with the money.
Right.
It's to your point, generational wealth creation.
Right.
I love it when a client says I can now buy a house for my family or I can send my kids to university, which I didn't believe I could do before.
Or really, what is the freedom that you get through that changing your financial status right?
I think that's the interesting piece, but maybe more importantly than just quote unquote, that is the bit where they truly do see, all of a sudden, how much value they put into the world, and because they see it, and because they also know how to communicate it, they're able to have so much more positive impact in this world.
And that's the bit what I live for.
And that's the bit where I feel so tremendously privileged being able to sit there and to see them all in their respective worlds, right.
Do all this magic.
Yeah, I love it.
Such a beautiful thing.
This is great.
This has been incredible.
I really appreciate you sharing your insight, taking a ton of notes here, which is awesome for me.
I'm learning a lot too.
And, before you go, make sure to shout out the podcast and the work that you do so people can get in touch with you.
Yes, so the podcast is called Winning with Lee Spreadby.
It's available on all the regular podcast platforms.
I'm not quite sure what you call them, but Google and all of them.
Anyway, the website is called womeninnegotiation.org.
And if you Google box my slightly funny name, you'll find me as well.
I'm hanging out on LinkedIn a lot.
So I love it when people link up with me, I think is the official term over there.
So Vies is W-I-E-S and then Brad B is B-R-A-T-B-Y.
Perfect.
Vis, really appreciate it, my friend.
And everybody will put links in the description of this episode to make it easy to connect.
I'm a little bit.
I'm sitting here in the presence of greatness and I'm feeling I'm very impressed with everything that you put out into this world.
And can I just say... on behalf of the world population for all that great work.
I really mean it.
We've all been there.
It's late at night and you finally find that one product that you've been waiting for, but then you realize that your credit card is in the other room.
That's when that iconic shop pay button becomes your best friend.
It has all of your information saved, making checkout as simple as a tap of your screen.
Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US.
They help you to accelerate your efficiency with AI tools and give you world-class expertise in processing returns and managing inventory.
Because of features like Shop Pay, Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet, which means fewer abandoned carts and more sales for you.
See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go through with Shopify and their Shop Pay button.
Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash Kwame.
Go to Shopify.com slash Kwame.
That is Shopify.com slash Kwame.
You know that feeling when you're in back-to-back meetings all day?
You're nodding along, trying to contribute, but in the back of your mind you're secretly stressed because you're trying to remember exactly what was just said or who was supposed to follow up on what.
Meetings can be a mess, but Granola AI fixes that.
Granola is an AI powered notepad built for the way real people actually meet.
Here's how it works.
You take rough notes like you normally would.
And then in the background, Granola securely transcribes the meeting.
Then it turns everything into clean, structured and actually useful notes the moment the meeting ends.
The best part?
It works through your device's audio, so it integrates seamlessly into the tools that you already use.
No setup and no awkward tools.
It's just your normal meeting, but with superpowers.
I've found that it lets me actually listen instead of frantically typing.
So I walk away knowing exactly what was decided and what comes next.
Before Granola, our team would spend extra time cleaning up notes and double checking details.
Now we leave meetings aligned and clear.
It saved us time and helps us to operate at a much higher level.
If meetings are eating up your day.
Granolaai is a no brainer and you can try it totally free for three months.
Just head to granola.ai.com.
That's granola.ai.com to get your time back.
Get three months free at granola.ai.com.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
No, this has been fun.
And it's been cool to build a platform that promotes other people, because that's really all it's about for me, because it's like We've been hearing from a few voices in the industry very loudly for a very long time.
And so, for me, I wanted to create something that could promote all of the people all around the world who have a lot to offer.
So I'm just glad that you accepted the invite.
Oh, I was honored and slightly humbled and sort of slightly weirded out by it.
They're all very as in like, why would you want to talk to me, other than the fact that I have a perspective that I think some of the people that you, I mean, I know you've had Beth on the line, right
So again, really coming in a long line of all these great people.
But yeah, maybe I can sort of add something, my perspective, my square centimeter in this larger topic of negotiation, to everything.
When I said that earlier, what I meant was that I love that.
Your perspective is that you're sort of building a stage for other voices.
I think what I'm just really grateful for is what you're doing for the topic of negotiation, in the sense that in my world i always feel like a massive freak in terms of caring so much and being wildly obsessed with the topic that most people are like sure it's on you, you know, like you stay away basically, And what I feel that you have done is really sort of popularized, something that is obviously very close to my heart, but most people don't really feel that way.
And so I'm super grateful for that.
And I often refer to you and the great interviews and conversation you've done and the books.
I have said, I have to say that Your latest one is still on the to read pile.
Thank you.
Another one I've been very impressed with.
So it's high up on the to read pile.
I just have a few more to do.
That's great.
No, that means a lot to me.
That means a lot to me because i'd like, like you've been following me, i've been following you, your work's really impressive and so yeah, of course, i gotta stay up to date on the industry, because i value your perspective and the thing is, Everybody is a little bit different in the way that they approach things.
Everybody has a different lived experience, different parts of the world, all these types of things.
And so it's just really cool to get to know different people, learn from them.
Because every interview, I learn something new, every single interview, which is really, really fun.
So, yeah, it's been quite the journey.
But what I found is kind of like you, there are a lot of freaks in the world who love this stuff.
There are a lot of people who don't know that they do love it.
I think that's the thing, because we're all people who talk to people at the end of the day.
And then, once they start to learn about how they can improve their relationships, improve their lives through this, they're like wait a second.
I'm obsessed with negotiation and conflict resolution too.
So it's been fun.
That's your great work.
What do you love most about negotiation?
What's the bit that gets you most excited?
I would say it's the connection and collaboration piece, building relationships and things like that.
I think it is a tool for better relationships.
That's really it.
And I think, just growing up, being different and finding ways to connect with other people, it was communication and observing people and learning about people that allowed me to connect, even though i was very different from everybody, and so for me, i just want to proliferate those skills.
And then also it's.
It's just like the motto at the american negotiation institute we believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations, And I think a lot of people don't realize that their inability to have these difficult conversations is really one of the key things that's holding them back.
I love that.
And that line, right, that all this good stuff is on the other side of a difficult conversation.
That's literally when I remember reading that the first time and really thinking that is it.
And that's what makes me a freak in the circle with the people that I hang out with that I always got excited about dropping the bomb, which is really how I pictured it.
When there was a difficult conversation to have, even as a younger child, I would drop the bomb and then go, and now I need to follow up.
Right.
Because once the ball is dropped, you got to take action.
Right.
You can't just leave it there and go, you know, you have to then.
But then doing that, realizing the power of engaging in that conversation.
I mean, obviously, I didn't have the language at the time, right, to see this.
But I remember the excitement, the trepidation, the wild stress that I was experiencing, right?
But also the excitement of, I know we're going to end up in a better place than before this.
And I think that, I don't think a lot of people realize that.
I think they get stuck in the fear.
They don't see the upside.
100%.
Just this morning, I started writing a Forbes article and it kind of speaks to that.
And I realized that actually it'll be interesting to hear your perspective on it.
So think about the things that we care about that could actually hold us back.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Like we care about losing a relationship.
We care about saying something that offends people.
We care about hurting people's feelings.
Those are legitimate things to care about.
And that's critical for human connection.
And, at the same time, caring too much about those things is actually the root of performance anxiety or a lack of performance at all.
And so that fear can hold us back.
We shouldn't stop caring about those things, but we have to balance it by caring about other things.
And I'm focusing on mission and message.
What is it that I'm here to accomplish?
What's my mission?
What is the message that allows me to accomplish my mission?
And a lot of times, when we focus on other people's feelings predominantly, we muddy the message and then jeopardize the mission.
I guess if you take it back to mission right and you're there already, as in, why am I having this conversation?
Most of the time, that's got little to do with you, but with the other side.
And if I think, if you make it about the other side, if you focus your energy in this conversation and your energy in wanting resolution, you know, and even starting the conversation on what it brings to the other side, I find that that always makes it easier to have it.
So taking your own, yourself and your ego out of the equation.
What is more important here?
Is it that I want to be viewed a certain way by the other side?
Or is it that we actually accomplished a goal that I have obviously for myself, but also very much for the other side?
And if I let my own needs and interests drive the conversation that's, I think, where we get really sort of.
We get sort of stuck in this loop of discomfort.
Whereas if we focus very vast majority of our attention and our energy on the other side and on wanting to help them move forward i find that that takes a lot of the pressure off our shoulders and makes it easier for sure i mean that's the heart of collaborative interest-based negotiation we have to figure out what it is that they want and then we have to also realize that The only way we can get what we want is if we help them to achieve their goals.
That was the first part of today's masterclass.
Up.
Next we'll hear from another expert with a different approach, giving you even more strategies to add to your toolkit.
Let's keep it rolling.
Whitney and Stephanie, thanks for joining us today.
Oh, we're so glad to be here.
Yes.
Thank you for having us.
It's our pleasure.
So Whitney, how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah, my name is Whitney Abraham.
I am a business coach for women who build online-based businesses, leveraging their expertise and their personality.
And I am the co-owner of a digital marketing company here in Columbus, Ohio called Real Social and also the co-host of the Capture Confidence podcast with my darling partner, Stephanie.
Yay, so i am stephanie hannah.
I am a lawyer by trade, i have a business called the other 85 where i do professional development coaching for attorneys and other professionals, and i am also the co-host of the capture your confidence podcast with whit Awesome.
And everybody, you might remember Stephanie.
She's been on the show a number of times talking about networking and negotiation.
And in today's episode we're here to highlight an exciting new program, but also here to give some really practical tips about how you can change your mentality around business and collaboration and communication and negotiation in order to move your career forward, and how we could use networking and negotiation as a tool for that growth.
And so let's set the stage here when when we're talking about this because there is a mental side to this game and then there's going to be a strategic side to this game
And Stephanie, I want to pass the ball to you.
When it comes to the mental side of the game, what is the transformation that you want to see in the people who go through the program?
Yeah, we really want people to leave the conference feeling like they can accomplish whatever it is that they want to accomplish.
So people often come to us with lofty goals, but they have families and lives and people telling them it's maybe not a great idea and their own voices in their head giving them all the reasons why they shouldn't be doing something, why they shouldn't be going for more.
And when they leave the conference, they have kind of shattered their own glass ceiling.
They recognize that there is more, they are capable of more and they're just as worthy as everyone else that they see going after it.
So the mental transformation, you know, aside from the strategic and the practical, is really critical because we can give you the tools all day long.
But if you don't believe that it's for you and that you are worthy of receiving them and implementing them, they're not nearly as effective.
So the thing we love the most about the conference is the mental transformation.
Absolutely.
And what I've seen in this in the negotiation space, when it comes to anybody who is starting their negotiation journey, and even with experienced negotiators, a lot of times we are limited by our own ambition.
And so, for example, if we were to go into a negotiation and let's say it's a salary negotiation or you're an entrepreneur and you have this contract with a longstanding client and prices have changed, inflation is up, you have to adjust your prices.
If I go into those types of negotiations and I say I want to negotiate for 1 more, Most likely the most I'll get is 1 more.
But if I say I want to increase by 30, I might not get 30, but I might get 10 or 20, which is better than where I was before.
So when we are limited by our own ambition, we're putting a governor on our success.
And when you start to recognize that there is more, that you could possibly get more now we can actually change our mentality to move in that direction.
But if we don't make that shift mentally internally, for ourselves first, then we're going to be really limited.
And I think you know you raise a great point because a lot of the times where we don't even go for the 30 is not because we don't want more, but it's maybe we just don't think we deserve more or we don't want to take up that much space.
And so really changing the mentality to but if I win more than I can help others more and I can do more good.
And so it's not selfish.
It's Really just having that growth mindset and knowing that you are going to take the more, whatever it is that you get, and you're going to pay it back and you're going to make your programming stronger or you're going to make your product better or whatever it is.
But to just really think that you're worthy of the more, so that you can take it and put more back out into the universe.
Yeah.
And, you know, I think women count themselves out especially.
And I will always tell women that I coach you better be sold on yourself before you ever enter into an arena with another person.
You better believe wholeheartedly that the thing that you're bringing to the table is worth everything that you're asking in return for it, before you ever open your mouth and try and convince someone else otherwise, because you'll lose the battle before you even walk in the room if you don't believe in yourself.
And I think women have to continually put themselves into positions where they stretch that upper limit, where they face what they're limiting themselves to and ask themselves whether or not, on the other side of their fear, if there's more possible for them.
And I hope that this day becomes a space where they can sort of safely confront that upper limit and ask themselves what they really want and why they're holding themselves back from it for sure.
This is crucial.
This is crucial because I think, Even if you're somebody who struggles with this, hearing it described this way can sound a little foreign, can sound a little strange.
Deserving more, of course I deserve more.
Okay, but do you really believe that you deserve more?
We can say it logically, but do we feel it emotionally and viscerally?
Those are two different things.
Because what I'm recognizing is that there are different layers of belief that we need to overcome.
So first, we have to believe, yes, I can aspire for more.
I can ask for more.
That's great.
Because going from not even believing that you can and should to believing it, that is a massive improvement.
But then there is a little bit more resilience that comes from a true deep, visceral belief that's in your bones, right.
Because if I say all right, I believe that I deserve more, and then I go into the negotiation, I might feel some resistance.
And then as soon as I feel that resistance, I say to myself, you know what?
This was a bad mistake.
They brought up a really good point.
I don't actually deserve more.
Let me sit down in my place.
Right.
But when we meet that anticipated resistance that comes now, we can greet it with more resilience too, because we're like no actually, thank you for your suggestion that I don't deserve more, but I actually do.
And let me continue to walk through this fire.
And so it's about recognizing just the depth of this belief and where we might be, and recognizing where we might want to go.
And these are the soft skills.
I think that people have a hard time wrapping their minds around how to actually build right.
And this is part of the reason why I love partnering with Stephanie, because so much of her work is wrapped up in helping people establish and cement some of those soft skills that are harder to quantify but man, they make all the difference in the outcome.
Absolutely.
And this actually gives us an opportunity to talk about some of those soft skills with a little bit more specificity.
Because Stephanie, I know this is where you shine, because networking is near and dear to your heart.
So can you tell us a little bit more about how the role that networking and connection plays into just growth and advancement in general?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think we've shared before this idea that people have to know you, like you and trust you to want to do anything with you.
Right.
To be your super fan.
And the more that we can work on the know, like and trust, the easier it is for people to collaborate with us.
And the easier it is for us to be in partnership with others, so that we can both achieve greater things.
The other really important piece of, I think, collaboration and relationship building is having an abundance mindset.
I think it's very easy to go into these situations with a scarcity mindset and to think that.
You know, I don't want to collaborate because I cultivated this relationship or I built this book of business, or what if they leave me?
And that is probably one of the quickest ways to derail both your own progress and the you know compounded progress that could be if you were to collaborate.
So I think, coupling the know, like and trust with an abundance mindset and recognizing that there's enough for everybody,
And if I grow and they grow, then we all grow is part of the secret sauce.
And we focus a lot of our workshop on that, because it's not just going to help you if you want to create a business or do something more, but it's going to help you if you are, you know, trying to talk to your landlord or your supervisor or your spouse, right?
Like there's so many areas where this mentality comes into play and is really useful.
Yeah.
As you were saying that Stephanie, I was thinking about the map that I put together on the domino effect of all of our relationships for the women that are participating in the state of women.
So I put together this map of how everyone met each other and how they started to collaborate with each other, and what that turned into.
And it was this beautiful domino effect of like bigger things than we could have ever imagined for ourselves, because we started collecting one another and playing together instead of competing with each other.
And to me I just think gosh, so many people who are afraid to collaborate and afraid to network and share their connections and their expertise.
They miss out on the possibility of so much more from that place of fear.
And I hope that the room that we're creating is one where connections create something that is beyond what they could have imagined possible.
Right.
We're looking for those synergistic connections.
And it's really interesting because I never really explicitly made this connection between networking effectively and the abundance mindset.
And let's go a bit deeper into this, because I don't want to assume that everybody fully grasps this, because I think there are going to be different levels to this.
Because when we say, all right cool, we want to have an abundance mindset, sometimes we might have an abundance mindset as it relates to ourselves.
But then you incorporate somebody else and you're like wait a second, you're going to take some of my stuff.
So we don't we haven't gotten that far yet.
So it seems like we need to have an abundance mindset where it's like yes, there is more than enough for me and there's more than enough for you.
And if we work together, there can be more than enough for both of us.
But we need to both kind of adopt this mentality in order to move in that direction.
Today, I want to talk about something that a lot of us put off.
And that's life insurance.
Now I get it.
It sounds like it's a big undertaking.
But if you have family or loved ones who depend on your income, a term life policy is an important step that you can take today to protect their financial future.
Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance that you can get done today.
It's made for busy parents.
It's all online and on your schedule.
You could be covered in under 10 minutes, often with no health exam required.
If you have kids, the time to lock in low rates is now.
Fabric has flexible, high-quality policies that fit your budget, like a million dollars in coverage for less than 1 per day.
And there's no risk because they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee and they are trusted by millions of families.
Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family.
Apply today in just minutes at meetfabric.com.
That's meetfabric.com slash kwame.
Use my link so they know that I sent you.
That's meetfabric.com slash kwame.
Policies issued by Western Southern Life Insurance Company, not available in certain states.
Price is subject to underwriting and health questions.
We talk a lot on this show about the importance of learning and staying sharp.
But let's be honest between work and life.
Who actually has time to read every single book that can help you to get ahead?
And that is exactly why I use Blinkist.
It's an app that takes the world's best nonfiction books and breaks them down into 15-minute summaries that you can read or listen to.
They have over 9000 titles, so whether you're into leadership, psychology or negotiation, they've got you covered.
Personally, I love to learn about a wide variety of topics, not just negotiation, but psychology, history and communication.
All of that knowledge works together to help me to be the negotiator that I am today.
If you've been meaning to dive into the frameworks we discuss here every week, Blinkist is the fastest way to get those core insights, while you're driving to work or at the gym.
It turns your extra time into a real advantage, helping you to show up to every difficult conversation with more clarity and courage.
If you want to start learning faster and showing up with more confidence, this is the tool for you.
Go to Blinkist.com slash Kwame to start your free trial.
That's Blinkist.com slash Kwame.
Yeah, I mean look, I think you can very quickly find out if someone has a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset.
And what I mean by scarcity is just that there is a limited pool of resources and opportunities and information.
And so whoever can get the most of it will ultimately be the most successful, versus an abundance mindset, which you touched on.
But just there's, There's tons of it for everyone.
And it's not a race to who's going to get the most the fastest, but it's how can we work together so we all can get everything right together?
Like, how can we all get as much as possible?
And I think, I mean, within minutes now, as much as we've been doing this work, I can tell, right?
I can tell.
It was a yes or it was a no.
Like, is this going to work or not?
And it took a long time to get there.
But you know, I think you start to get a spidey sense about someone's true kind of core values and their beliefs about resources and collaboration and relationship building.
And so you can.
Once you're able to sense it, then you can make decisions that are the most effective for you, because it is very hard it's going to take more than your relationship to undo someone's scarcity mindset right.
It takes a lot of work, so it's going to be easier for you to navigate when you're able to you know, know where you stand personally and then be able to gauge where your partners or potential partners are.
Yeah, stephanie talks a lot about givers and takers too, and i think this has been a really good example of recognizing scarcity mindset and action when you're networking and you're in a room and someone's, you know, maybe asking a lot of questions and trying to play this like name game instead of being really curious about the person in front of them and being a conversationalist and you know i have i have aspired after doing that work and working with stephanie, i think, abundance mindset also.
I just want to give the disclaimer it's a never done job, in the same way that confidence is a never done job.
We're always working on it.
We're always trying to strengthen it and grow that i mean.
So, after having started that journey and started to do that work, you know my goal when i walk into a room is to find out as much about the people in the room as I can and to try and make connections where I can.
And we were talking earlier about creating win-win scenarios with as many people as possible.
And so you know, if I can enter into a conversation or into a room and be of help to someone else without expectation that it comes back to me, I actually end up getting way more back from that than I would have if I had gone in and being me me me my my, my right.
This is great.
And you're absolutely right.
And Whitney, I love the point where you said, you know, we're constantly working on this.
And I smiled because I know I currently am.
And it's it's humbling, because I realized that last night, where I was thinking about a different type of expansion,
And then I said, man, I when when did I get so scared?
When did this happen?
Probably kids.
But when did this happen?
Because I used to be able to think a little bit bigger, take bigger risks.
But I realized, oh, I grew in my abundance mindset at that stage.
And now I've leveled out, I've kind of topped out and now it's going to require a similar amount of effort to overcome this new level again.
And it was just humbling because I was saying, my goodness, I thought I was past this.
But it's not like a grade where I don't need to keep on revisiting second grade.
It's one of those things that we just keep on pushing through in life.
And one of the things that I want to focus on here, because it is subtle.
And maybe the people who are only listening to this, they can't see the video.
They might not appreciate this.
But there is a glow and energy that both of you all have as you talk about the connection and the networking.
And I think a lot of times when people hear networking, they get nauseous.
Yeah.
And so I'm recognizing that there is.
We are using the word networking, but it has very different meanings for different people.
And so, when you think about the aversion that people have toward networking, what are those self-limiting beliefs and problematic beliefs that often hold them back?
So, in addition to networking, i also teach a negotiation class at the law school here and there is that same aversion to those words right to networking, to negotiation and you know, whitney talks a lot about marketing and sales and that same aversion.
And so how interesting that we have to build businesses around words that people generally don't like.
And so for networking in particular, I would say the aversion or the things that I hear the most are, it feels, very inauthentic.
It feels salesy or, you know, I'm trying to pitch myself.
I'm trying to take up too much space.
I could just work hard and keep my head down and someone will notice me.
I don't want to go into.
Like you know, they just have this vision of, like a cocktail party where you know everyone is talking and nobody has anything to do with you.
And that, you know, everyone's like scheming to exclude you.
Right.
They've concocted like the worst possible scenario in their mind and then use that as a picture their mind goes to every time the word networking comes up.
No, nobody wants to walk into a room where they feel like they're gonna have to small talk or posture, but they do.
If you ask them hey, do you want to go to a place where you're going to meet your next mentor?
Hey, do you want to go to a place where you literally meet the person that changes the trajectory of your career?
Do you want to meet your best friend in business?
They all say yes, they want to find their people, but they don't.
They're starting to look at networking as the negative space, not the space of possibility.
Right, and so if you think about panning for gold, of course you're going to have a lot of conversations with people that might not end up being anything in order to find the one nugget of the person who's like oh my goodness, Can you imagine if I didn't go into that room that night?
Can you imagine if I said I would rather just stay home and hang out instead of doing this thing?
Can you imagine what you would have missed out on?
And so I encourage people, if they have this negative lens on networking, to start thinking about the possibility of what can happen when you walk in the room, instead of the laborious effort that it takes for you to sort of like become a person who can network this.
I love this.
This is so helpful because it's like imagine, if you say okay well, you have to network, people would say okay yes begrudgingly, i'll do that with their typical mindset.
But if you ask, do you want to be networked?
Like what does that mean?
That does it doesn't sound good for me at all.
Right.
And I think about some of my most valuable relationships that I've come come away with from these networking events.
And it's the people who were just ruthlessly authentic, right where they were just saying hey, this is who i am, and let's vibe and barely talk about business, if at all.
I remember one of my friends that i met still friends to this day.
This was about nine years ago.
It was a speed networking scenario and it was around Halloween times and we have a minute and a half and everybody's just like hi, I'm so-and-so.
This is my business.
This is how I can help you, right?
And it gets old really fast.
And he said, hey, what do you want to be for Halloween?
I was like, wow.
What a great question.
And we just vibed.
And then in the last five seconds, he said, okay, I do this.
And I said, I'll do that.
Friends to this day.
Right.
And when you think about going all the way back Stephanie, to what you said when we were saying no like and trust.
When you think about business, who do you want to do business with?
You want to do business with your friends.
And then if your friends are just slightly not as good as another option, but functional but just not that great, you're still going to go with your friends because you vibe with them.
And when you think about it in terms of just going out there, being yourself and making relationships and helping people.
Now it's an exciting opportunity.
But if you have that biased lens around networking as a bad thing, it's a chore.
I have to pretend that I care only about business and I'm not a whole person.
Now it's not fun for anyone in the interaction.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, look, at the end of the day, this gets easier the more you do it.
And there is this piece of equipment at the gym called the ladder.
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but essentially it's like a bunch of rungs on this electric ladder.
It's essentially like a treadmill, but it's all self powered, so the faster you go, the faster the thing moves.
And
I just have been having, as I'm on it, I'm like, there are so many parts of life that are like this.
You're starting out slow.
You're just trying to figure it out.
But then like, the more you're able to go, like the faster the thing is going, but you're able to keep up, but okay, then you slip.
So hold on, then we got to slow down again.
But that's just like relationship building, right?
You're able to weed stuff out and go quicker the more that you do it.
Like I am not going to the same things that I was going to 12 years ago, for sure.
I am very easily saying no to those things at this stage.
But I'm still going to other things and new things that are serving my relationship building goals.
So the more you do it, the quicker you are and you're able to weed it out and do you know and just make smarter choices and it becomes less laborious.
Note to note to self, Stephanie is way tougher than me because I know the latter.
I am not acquainted with the latter.
I will never do such a thing.
So kudos to you.
But you're absolutely right.
Like a positive ladder.
Things in life, they just keep on coming back.
And I think it's really humbling to recognize that, to just say okay yeah, I can't, I'm not going to graduate from these challenges.
They're going to shift.
They might manifest themselves differently.
But you just have to keep on going.
I like to think about it like a clock, you know, just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
We just keep on moving forward methodically.
And I think that's really powerful.
And when we bring that mentality to our career and our relationships and we just keep on advancing, that's really where we make those gains.
And I think you know the tactical piece is really important because sometimes you could leave a lot of conferences and seminars where you do feel that rah-rah right.
And then I used to call them put it on the shelf workshops, right?
I feel great, but I'm putting all this material on the shelf and hopefully this good energy carries me a couple more days.
So not only are you getting the good energy, you're actually getting the next steps.
Okay, so when I leave here, who do I need to call?
Who do I need to schedule a coffee with?
What plans do I need to follow through on?
You've got the blueprint and it just makes it so much easier.
You know, in diversity and inclusion work there's an exercise that we do where we give everyone a puzzle to solve and then the facilitator gives one person kind of the answer key, the blueprint not the full answers, but just says here are the different quadrants of the page so that you can find the solution.
Just give them that blueprint.
And then the participants all go through the exercise and the person with the blueprint, of course, is able to accomplish more of the exercise than anyone else in the room.
And the idea is all I did was give them a roadmap and then they ran with it.
But everyone else is still stuck trying to figure out the roadmap and see if there's a pattern, and they're kind of twirling among themselves and not able to make real progress.
But when they just got the roadmap from someone else, then they were able to run and they were able to get where they're trying to go much quicker.
And so that's what we hope to give you is roadmap.
We're not doing the work for you, but we hope to help you change your mindset and then give you the roadmap so that, once you leave, you know what to do.
This is great, because so many events are just hyper motivational and hyper emotional.
And then, once that fades away which it often does people are just exactly where they were before, but guilty that they haven't done the thing that they were going to do.
Right.
So this is important.
And I know some listeners are saying why are we talking about business strategy on a negotiation podcast?
Well, I've got a little twist for you because, let's say, people go to this event and they have a plan.
They have connections and then they are confronted with the real world, because when you create a plan, that is only part of the battle.
We have to execute the plan.
But as we execute the plan, there are going to be things that will get in our way, that will often be well-meaning and try to lead us astray.
And so we have to be able to set boundaries in order to protect this.
And the thing that's tough is that sometimes we have to set boundaries with the people who we love.
So it might be a partner.
It might be a friend who wants to continue to socialize without moving forward.
Hey, no, I need to focus on this.
I might be a partner who wants more time, which partners often do.
But then you say, hey, I need to lock in for this moment.
So in those times where you have to protect your boundaries and say no, what is a framework or approach we could use to handle that particular difficult conversation?
The first part fundamentally is to understand that boundaries are something you control.
They're not something that someone else can break or not break.
Right.
It's just have you enforced it or not enforced it?
I think a lot of times it's very easy to pass the buck when we talk about boundaries.
You know, I told them, don't call me after seven.
And here they are calling me, like they just keep violating my boundary versus.
Oh, you know, I told them not to call me after seven.
So I'm not going to answer this so that I can enforce this boundary.
Right.
And that mindset shift is really critical.
And then the other thing is the language to help you enforce that boundary, because a lot of times we just can't ignore people.
That's not how we want to enforce our boundary.
That's not how we want to show up.
So it's having the language to say, hey, here's why.
I'm doing these things.
Here's how I plan on enforcing them on enforcing my boundaries or staying true to my word.
And here's what I hope that you're able to do.
And if you're not, that's completely OK, too.
Right.
But here's how I'm still going to show up.
And here's how my behavior might change.
So we give a lot of little, you know, you might notice me.
Fill in the blank and just key phrases that may help.
Hey, do you have a minute?
Right.
I mean just the basics of how we introduce a conversation, how we let someone know that we're trying to talk about something that you know maybe we don't feel great talking about, but we know is important in the long run.
So those are the things that, you know, we'll be covering more in depth.
But you're right, boundaries is a huge piece of it.
And so it's mindset and language.
And it doesn't matter if you're on the corporate track or if you own a business, or even if you're a stay-at-home mom who wants to articulate better boundaries so that she can accomplish some of the things for herself that she wants.
These are life skills, right?
And so I love being in a room and watching people explain their circumstance to Stephanie and watching Stephanie help them wordsmith the language that looks sound and feel like them, in order for them to be able to set those boundaries.
Because again, if they knew what to say, they'd say it, but they don't know where to start.
And so sometimes having a coach to help walk you through that process is transformative.
And we've seen some incredible boundaries come out of this conference.
So if you struggle with that, might I introduce you to my friend Stephanie, who is very, very good at it.
You know, the other cool thing I'll say about the conference is that the makeup of the attendees has really transformed in the last couple of years.
We actually have a lot more corporate folks.
We have a lot more attorneys, a lot more people who probably will never have a side hustle, right?
Who probably are going to go to work and go home.
And that's how they want to show up.
But I think it's this mindset that like you are still the CEO of yourself.
Right.
No matter if you work for someone else or you have your own business, you still are an entity that deserves a CEO and a board of directors.
And so we want to help you. fashion that so that you can put yourself in the best position.
So if you're listening to this and you're like well, I don't want a business or that's not for me, that's completely fine.
The really cool thing is that the audience is now being made up of folks at all stages right in the game and finding this content very useful.
Incredible.
Thank you both for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
That's the power of a masterclass.
One topic, multiple lenses and real world applications.
Negotiation isn't theory.
It's practice.
It's self-awareness.
It's choosing courage over comfort.
So pick one insight today and apply it in your next conversation, because skill doesn't come from listening.
It comes from doing.
I'll catch you in the next one.
Hey, if you're still here, that means you really like this episode.
So why don't you leave us a review?
Five stars, please.
That really means the world to us and it helps other people find the show.
And now, I will catch you later.
