My name's Ryan Shelton.
I'm a co-host on The Imperfects, the Jewish grandson of Austrian and English immigrants, and I grew up on and am now currently living on Wurundjeri country.
I'd like to recognise the traditional peoples of this continent, whose land was stolen nearly 250 years ago.
In particular, we at The Imperfects would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
The rich storytelling history of the world's oldest living culture is what we proudly pay homage to when we share stories on The Imperfects.
We are very, very big fans of the two episodes and you and just everything.
I've tried really hard to get in the audience, haven't succeeded yet.
Oh my gosh.
But I'm not surprised there's a lot of people that want it.
I'm assuming it's not a very big room.
Well, that's rude.
No.
Mel was one of six kids in a wondrously blended family.
Because they have all these siblings and they all seem to have met the love of their life when they were 19.
Well, if I'm 20 and I don't have someone, I don't have time.
I ended up in a relationship with a 40-year-old puppeteer.
He was trying to have a no-strings-attached relationship.
What was your sort of self-dialogue self-worth like during that time?
Pretty low, and i obviously wasn't happy.
Yeah, i just didn't really know what a relationship should look like.
He would say things like i'm really good at manipulating people and i was hiding the relationship, i didn't want to tell anyone about it, and that's not a good sign.
The imperfects invites you into a very safe place, a place where we share without judgment and drink heaps of vulnerability.
Grab yourself a cup.
This is the Vulnerability House.
Hello.
Often it's either Hugh or I. Mel's regretting it already.
Have you guys done this before?
No, we've just been asking people to come on our podcast for years.
No one's ever said yes.
So this is like, oh my God, someone said yes.
So we've just put this all together for you.
Wow.
Hello.
No, we are often, Hugh or I are usually the ones that talk first, but there's no real format to it.
So sometimes it's obvious, but that time it certainly was not.
I was speaking to a friend of mine this morning in the car on the way here and he said anyone interesting in the podcast today.
And you said no.
And I said, no.
And I said, yeah, we've got Melanie Brosephal actually.
And he said, well, yeah, that's that chick from the creepy seats.
The creepy seats.
I said, no, not the creepy seats, the cheap seats.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We get the cheap sheets a lot, which feels like the sort of adult spin-off of the show.
And sometimes with Have You Been Paying Attention, people don't quite get that right.
They go, oh, I think I got one.
You're on that show, How to Get Away with Watching the News.
Yes.
It's like the vibe is there.
It's long.
It's something to do with the news.
It's not wrong, but it's not right.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Well, I think sometimes we will finish an episode at the end by saying, anyway, we love you.
Thanks so much.
I can say confidently for everyone in this room, we love you and we are very excited.
We are very, very big fans of the group seats and you and just everything.
I wish I felt the same way about you guys.
Can you pretend?
No.
No, you guys are amazing.
It's sort of customary to pretend that you like the podcast.
I'm genuinely so excited to be here and chat to you guys.
So, yeah, that's awesome.
That's all we needed.
And that's a bye.
We're done.
There is sort of like one instant, like connection that you and Hugh could make straight off the bat is that you're both ADHD.
Oh.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Go.
Go.
Shit.
Have you done your washing?
I have so many clothes currently in my car, in the bedroom, in the hallway.
There's just piles everywhere.
The worst thing I can do is get an item of clothing that can be dry clean only because it will never happen.
It's just not.
I've got them ready to go at some point.
I have not ever been to a dry cleaner.
What's your dream laundry instructions on a piece of clothing? oh, just chuck it in, mate.
If there was just a label that just went, don't worry about it, I would be so pleased.
Yeah, wash and dryer, not a problem.
Not an issue.
That would be amazing.
Any temperature.
Oh, gosh.
Goodness.
This is just my dream.
Feels good, doesn't it?
Yeah.
I told this story on stage during our live tour last year, but I think you'll appreciate it.
I mean, I look back on my life now.
I didn't know at the time it was ADHD, but so many things I go.
Oh, that's why I did that.
So I had to go to Sydney to do it was like I was speaking with a.
Actually I was speaking at the NRL for the rookie camp.
It's like all the first year players in NRL, which is quite a difficult thing to do.
But I flew up there and I left the airport and I went, got a taxi all the way out to the Pullman in the CBD and I queued up for ages to check in and I finally got to check in.
The guy goes, yep, your name?
And I went, oh, fuck.
I left my bag at the airport.
I didn't get my bag off the carousel.
I'll be back in quite some time.
I then went back to the airport, found my bag just sitting there.
Someone had taken it off and it was just sitting on the ground.
Got my bag, got in the taxi, went back to the hotel, the Pullman in the CBD, and then queued up again, got to the front of the line, went to check in.
And I went, oh, we don't have your booking here.
We don't have a – I definitely got a booking.
I'll show you.
And I pulled out and showed it to him and he goes, so that's the Pullman at the airport.
You're staying at the airport, Pullman.
No, that is such a nightmare.
Oh, yesterday.
Genuinely, yesterday I was in Brisbane to host this conference for Xero.
It was huge.
It was like 5,000 people.
They had Dragon opening at 9am.
The band.
It was wild.
Out of interest, how do you invoice them?
Yes.
Yeah, I used Henry.
No, it was huge and mad.
Anyway, we did the cheap seats on Tuesday, recorded the show and then I had to go straight to the airport and I was like I've nailed this because I'm travelling so light.
I've got just what I need.
And so I'm in my active wear and I arrive at the airport.
Nothing clicks at all of like.
Why am I not suspicious of how light I'm travelling?
I wake up in the morning, got to go to the soundcheck at 6, 6.30 or something.
In the morning.
6.30 in the morning because I couldn't do the soundcheck the day before.
And so I'm getting changed and I'm like, oh, I'll just put my dress on.
And then I was like, I don't, I did not bring the dress I was planning to wear.
Oh.
Full just active wear, like the most casual of attire.
They were like, oh, it's a bit smart casual.
I was like, oh, my God.
Okay, well, I'll just go buy something.
Nothing opens until 9 a.m., which is when the show starts.
I was like, I can't go there and go – get me a dress.
I didn't want to tell anyone because I was so scared.
They were already fussing about with things.
I didn't want to be like, oh, here's another problem, by the way.
I don't have clothes.
Can you give me the clothes off your back?
That's what I was scared.
Yours will do.
I was scared.
I said that if I brought it up, they would try and fix it with a way that was just not right.
And so I was like, I'm just going to sort it and I'll tell them after I've sorted it.
The only thing that was opening at eight, which is when I was doing hair and makeup, was Target.
So I was like, I've just got to go to Target.
I'll just grab something.
And then on the way to Target, saw this like market that was selling secondhand clothes.
Just like grabbed something.
The lady I think knew I was panicked definitely overcharged me.
So I was like, I paid for this thing and I got back.
And then they're doing my hair and makeup in an even lower point.
She goes, I think there's something in your hair.
And I was like, that's weird.
I washed it this morning.
Porridge.
So it was just the worst.
I was just like in this.
And the worst part about it was like the dress I wanted to wear was quite expensive.
And I genuinely wanted to claim it as a tax expense.
Anyway, it was just one of those mornings where I was just like, oh.
I've reached a point, now that I've been diagnosed, that I can laugh about it a little bit and kind of understand that my brain works differently, and it's kind of okay.
But when I was growing up, it was just like, oh, you're just stupid.
The fact that you didn't think of this thing, it proves that you're not intelligent or something.
It's a weird thing to grapple with.
Yeah, it is.
It is a vulnerability house and we will get you to pick some cards.
But I think for the uninitiated, Hugh, maybe inform our listeners who Mel Bracewell is.
Well, you should just indulge yourself and go to 10 Play and just watch the cheap seats.
And most people will be surfing 10 Play every day anyway.
Oh, yes, exactly.
If you wait sort of 45 minutes for it to buffer, you'll eventually be able to see the show and it will be awesome.
It's one of the best shows of all time.
I love it so much.
Oh, thank you.
It's so good.
I've tried really hard to get in the audience, haven't succeeded yet.
Oh, my gosh.
But one day maybe I'll get the question right.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, I signed up to that.
And have you been paying attention a few years ago?
You've got to sound super.
I don't know what you – what is the application?
Do they say anything or just your details?
There's like a form and just details and you put it in and then it's like sorry, there's a lot of people who want this.
Back off.
Oh.
Yeah.
So it is.
I'm not surprised there's a lot of people that want it.
I'm assuming it's not a very big room.
Well, that's rude.
No.
My seven's just in a cupboard somewhere.
It is Channel 10, so you're right.
We sort of get about 80 people in a week.
Oh, okay.
I've been telling myself maybe it was like 10 just to make myself feel better.
Sometimes it feels like 10.
Sometimes we're like really struggling.
We're like, no, that's not working.
I guess there's no one in here.
Yeah.
One day.
Okay, let me read some stuff about Mel.
If you don't know Mel, this is –
This is Mel.
That's our bio.
That's my bio.
This is the first time we've done this.
I'm worried about what bio you have, because for a long time because I started comedy at 19 my bio was at only 19 years old.
She's achieved all of these things.
And then every year I had to update it.
And then I reached a point where it's no longer an achievement.
You're like, at only 30 years old, she's done the same things.
Well, just quickly adjust that bio.
Yeah.
Okay, here we go.
So it does start with an age-related fact.
Don't say it.
At 16 years of age.
Oh, God, fuck.
Mel Lee Broswell had amassed over 200,000 followers on her Tumblr blog.
That's true.
Meladoodle, still active today, posting witty and funny text posts.
Mel found.
Her love for writing, received millions of likes and even had one of her posts featured on Conan.
Yes.
Wow.
So this was a photo I had with Giancarlo Esposito from Breaking Bad, Gus from Breaking Bad.
And I was at a convention and my friends were getting a photo with him and they had props because Breaking Bad was huge at the time.
They had box cutters, not with the blades in them, but just the frame of a...
And I was like, oh, I don't want my photo to just be boring.
And I found a banana like outside just sitting there.
And I thought, oh, if he pretends this is a gun, that will be really funny.
I went up to him and I said, can you pretend this is a gun?
And he said, it is a gun.
And I was like, shit, you're a good actor.
And he held it to my head and it went huge.
And then...
This year, I recreated it with him 10 years later with the same banana.
No, yeah, I recreated it.
And I said, do you remember me?
And he said, yes.
And I was like, shit, you're a good actor.
It was, yeah, it was great.
That's an amazing response.
It is a gun.
Yes, I know.
And he also told me because I'm very tall, he said stand up straight, because I was sort of hunching down to be in the photo.
And he was like, no, be proud of yourself.
Stand up straight.
It was very sweet.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Growing up in Beach Haven on Auckland's North Shore, Mel was one of six kids in a wondrously blended family.
Within three years of beginning her comedy career with a stand-up routine, Mel won the Raw Comedy Quest, Seven Days Comedy Apprentice Award, Breakthrough Comedian of the Year Award, Best Newcomer Award and the Billie T Award.
During COVID, Mel received millions of views on TikTok for her impressions of Jacinta Ardern.
Gaining recognition from the BBC, The Guardian and even Jacinta herself, the former New Zealand PM, was so impressed that Mel was invited to perform at a Labor Party event.
So you performed an impression of her in front of her?
This was the worst part was because in COVID I – so I went blonde, but then in COVID my hair grew out.
And so if I put my hair in a ponytail, it was brunette and it was fine.
Then we got out of lockdown and I went back to blonde.
And so in order to continue the impression, I had to buy a wig.
But I could not get a good wig in a sort of short – I also didn't have a lot of money.
And so I got one off like, I don't know, Wish or something.
Before?
Yeah, wish or timu or something.
It was something like that and it was so ratty and awful like it was not a nice wig.
I didn't look good in the wig.
The issue is then meeting someone and going i look exactly like you, while you're wearing this sort of rat's nest of a wig like you.
Just it feels it feels cruel.
Mel is a regular guest on.
Have You Been Paying Attention?
Seven Days and the project.
Mel is the co-host and co-writer of The Cheap Seats, as we said before, and you are every goal shooter's worst nightmare.
If you're a goal shooter, you've probably stopped listening.
Watch out.
Watch out, guys, because I'm definitely three feet, even if the umpire calls it not so.
I'm tall.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, the Vulnerability House got the cards here.
For those who don't know how it works, we have this deck of Vulnerability House cards.
New deck.
This hasn't been used very much.
We just released a brand new deck, Mel.
That's great.
And if you wanted to go to theimperfects.com.au and buy your own deck, you could.
We'll give you one for free if you want.
But if you wanted to hypothetically buy them, you could.
I'll do that.
From their website.
I'll do that as soon as I leave.
Do it now.
It just feels like it's a podcast.
Grab your phone out now.
Grab it now.
I think I might be dead.
We'll definitely chase that later, remind you.
So Mel, on each of these cards is a question which might invoke some, hopefully some sort of memory or story that is vulnerable in some way.
And then so if you just pick the top three cards, read out the three questions.
And if one of them resonates, then maybe you can talk about it.
This is the first one.
Can you remember a time when someone's honesty hurt you but ultimately made you grow?
Do you guys react to them?
That's a good one.
If you could relive one moment in your life, what would it be and how would you do it differently?
Interesting.
And who do you go to for advice and why?
That's a good one.
I mean, they're all good.
I think I might choose that last one of who do you go to for advice and why.
Yeah, okay.
And it's you guys.
Oh, my God.
Whoa.
All right.
Go on then.
No, this would be my mum saying, But it wasn't always my mum.
Growing up, I think I was quite like, I kept everything to myself.
I didn't really open up to my mum.
I was really close to my dad, but in a dad way of like, oh, just joke around.
So I grew up with five siblings.
So I'm the youngest.
And both of my parents...
I had my eldest siblings when they were like 19 and then a big sort of gap, and then I came as a surprise, as they say.
As like your parents say or as general society says?
My parents say a happy surprise.
Both of my parents had previous marriages, and so I have a half-brother and half-sister on my dad's side and a half-brother and half-sister on my mum's side, and then a full-sister with my mum and dad, if that makes sense.
It's a blended family and we all really love each other and it's great.
That's the best.
It is great.
Yeah, it is.
It's amazing.
But my elder sister is like 17 years older than me.
And so my parents, because they had kids so young, like you can imagine, I was like if I had like an 11 year old now and I was at the age where my siblings could sort of look after me, of course you'd go to the pub.
Like, you know, like they didn't get their 20s, you know, like they were parents so young.
And so when I was, you know, old enough to be sort of looked after by my siblings and cousins and things, I would say I had three parents.
I had my mum, my dad and the Glenfield Leisure Centre.
Yeah was.
We would go there.
My parents would drop us off like, basically before it had even opened, would like drop us off and they would go to the Glenfear Tavern and we would spend so long at the pools that we would joke that we would be so wrinkly that we could get into the pub.
It was just, like, it was just, we were just, we loved it, though.
Like it was one of those things you're just like.
Of course, I want to spend seven hours on the Hydra slides.
And, you know, it was great.
That sounds amazing.
Yeah, I know.
But because, you know like, because I had that sort of big gap in my siblings and I just don't feel like I really opened up to my parents that much, I guess I kind of just like Kept to myself.
Also with the ADHD thing, I guess when you're a kid, you kind of feel a little misunderstood maybe.
Like, if you feel like you're screwing everything up all the time and if you're getting in trouble for doing the wrong things or forgetting things, you can sometimes get your guard up a bit and go oh, I think I'm just a bit of a – I don't know if I'm doing anything right.
And so –
It's not until sort of like I was in my 20s and I was like going to uni and sort of still living at home, because I was at uni in Auckland where I grew up.
And it was sort of reaching that point where you're like I don't know, you want to be like dating and things.
And you're like, I live with my parents.
And I ended up in a relationship.
I just started comedy.
I ended up in a relationship with a 40-year-old puppeteer and I was 20, and so it was.
This is the thing with comedy though, is that you start and you're you know, I was 19 when I started and you're not going to a workplace like you're going to like a pub and you're going to a bar, and you're just like you're just hanging out with adults all the time and you feel like oh I'm, because I had all these older siblings.
I just felt like an adult and it was just not.
It was funny because it was like I joke about it now because he was a puppeteer and he was trying to have a no strings attached relationship and that It's still.
It's still.
It's too on the nose.
And I knew it wasn't a good relationship.
This guy was not, like, he was not faithful.
He was, like, cheating on me.
And he was, like, he was, people will often say who they are.
He would say things like, I'm really good at manipulating people.
And I weirdly, I thought.
Ironically?
No, he was genuine.
He's like, I know how to make people laugh.
Lift their arms and legs?
Yeah, exactly.
And thinking about it now, you're like how did I not see that this was like a really toxic relationship.
And he would, you know.
I guess you're 20.
I know, I'm 20.
And I also, my previous relationships were not very good.
And so I didn't really have a litmus test for what a good relationship looked like.
Yeah.
And I obviously did not tell my parents about this relationship.
And I was using my mum's laptop and I had left it open.
I'd left it open and Facebook was there.
And my mum read our entire conversation.
Wow.
And I was mortified.
It was just a complete invasion of privacy.
And I remember just feeling so awful.
And see, he freaked out.
He's like I can't talk to you anymore because my mum messaged him and was like what are you doing?
Kind of thing.
So did she know about the existence of him at all?
Did not know about the existence of him at all.
Probably knew that I was dating someone because I was out a lot.
Could your mum tell from the messages, this is not a good person, or was it?
Well, yeah, probably.
I mean, I almost wanted to look back.
I had deleted and nuked everything from Facebook. from any interaction I've had with him.
So I can't even look back and go like, oh, that was weird.
But I think she just was like, this is weird.
This guy's too old for you, which is true.
And he was not a good guy.
And my mom had the right instincts.
The way she went about it was not the right thing to do.
And so it caused this huge rift between me and my mom.
And I just couldn't understand how she wouldn't apologize for it.
She just went, I thought you left it on my computer because you were crying for help.
And I thought, I'm like a, you know, mother lion and I've got to protect my child.
And that's just all I care about.
She said that at the time.
Yes.
And I just remember thinking like I sort of get it, but I also am just like so mortified by this that I can't, like I can't.
Was it embarrassment or shame, do you think?
Oh, both.
And I obviously knew and this guy would always sort of he would treat me like I was his girlfriend, right.
And would be like so loving and so caring.
And then the moment I was like, okay, so like, what's this?
He was like, well, obviously there's no future here because you're too young.
And it would be this thing like, oh, it's not – it's never going to happen.
But then also all of the things in a relationship that sort of make sense.
And I just – I was just so heartbroken because I'd never – I'd never had like a successful relationship at all.
I dated and all of my relationships lasted like three months and I couldn't work out like what was wrong and what was you know happening.
And I was going on dates and things like that and trying, but I just – I was –
At school I was sort of like a tall, lanky girl with braces, did not get much attention from guys at all.
And so when I went into the comedy scene and I was, you know, dressing up nicer, and people who had no context of me were like interested in me, it was like this weird, crazy shock to the system.
It was like oh, this person is giving me a lot of attention, and this guy, because he's old, he's got money.
And so he's like, oh, I'll pick you up and I'll take you out to this thing.
And it was just like, Well, that would feel nice.
Yeah, it's not something that I had ever experienced before.
And so I just didn't really know what a relationship should really look like.
And I didn't know who to talk to about it.
Because then, once this happened as well, like I was like oh, my instincts were right to not talk to my mum about it because she reacted in this way.
What would you have preferred your mum to have done?
Like after she read the messages, what would be like your dream reaction from her?
I think my first thing was reading the messages felt like the first betrayal.
So even if she didn't message him, I think I would have still felt like someone reading your diary or something.
You just feel like, oh, you just... God, I'm trying to flirt.
Anyone seeing messages trying to flirt with someone just feels so It's like a violation of some sort.
Yeah, definitely.
And so mum, I think, had convinced herself That I had done it on purpose, and that's why she felt justified in doing it.
She felt I had left my Facebook there because I was trying to be like mum.
I'm in this situation help.
Which wasn't true.
But I moved out shortly after that and we got the sort of space from each other and that space really helped.
And my mum sent me an email, which I know sounds really impersonal, but it was almost like writing a letter.
You know what I mean?
Like about like she was able to say all of the things she wanted to say and she like apologised and she said I shouldn't have done it and I'm really sorry.
How long after was that?
I think it was I can't remember exactly but it would have been like a couple weeks of sort of giving it some breadth and some time.
And after that, I felt finally like I could like talk to my mum about that sort of stuff.
I don't know.
It was a weird one.
It's just...
I think also my mum probably has ADHD and we've both got this sort of like defensive personality and it's so hard to like admit that you're wrong.
And I know that what like what had happened with me was wrong as well.
But it was just like a almost we kind of have too much in common that we almost butted heads on the issue.
It's sort of like expected that a parent should do that.
But it's also like a really big thing to kind of like apologise, especially after a couple of weeks.
That's quite quick.
Yeah, totally.
I think, my mum, I love her a lot and she's amazing and she's a really intelligent woman and she's fierce and she can get riled up.
And I have that quality as well.
You can just really start seeing it.
She'll be like, if you're in a Facebook community group, she'll be like...
This woman was just actually just said something quite rude actually, about someone had actually dumped rubbish in our lawn and I was just complaining about the dump.
And she had commented.
And I actually have seen Linda comment on other pages.
And I think, you know, that sort of thing, that classic sort of mum defensiveness.
And I have that quality as well.
And it's just we never really like opened up in that way.
I always felt like I don't know, too shy or embarrassed to talk about things like that with my mum.
And after it it's almost like it opened this kind of nice pathway into connecting with my mum, because the moment she apologised I sort of thought oh, she heard me.
And weirdly, I guess as your parent, you sometimes feel like I have no idea what I'm going through and I always see these TikToks of people just being like your mum was a young girl too once and it's such a weird thing and so obviously true, but it doesn't feel true until you think about it.
Like your parents, being your age, and you know my mum having a small child when she was.
You know that age.
She had to care for a kid and she had so much more responsibility than I did.
It's really hard to imagine, isn't it?
Because it makes sense because of time.
But it's really like I remember seeing some old home videos that my dad had somewhere and it was like a dinner party or like a party they had at their mum and dad had at their house.
And I think he must have set the camera up on like a tripod in the corner of the room to just capture the scene.
Oh, that's so nice.
And it was before I was born.
So it was really.
It was like they would have been.
You know, when I watched it.
They were younger than I was when I watched it.
And I was like, you know, people were smoking inside.
I think it was a video.
It was a video.
Oh, wow.
It was like a video of like this party with friends over.
And I was like, whoa, they were just 20 year olds.
Yes.
It's such a weird thing to think about that your parents were kids and i had this connection with my mom and i remember talking to her and just being like i'm just like dating is so hard and i think i guess because i have all these siblings and they all like seem to have met the love of their life when they were 19, i was like like, honestly met a high school, met straight out, straight like first year of uni, together for 11 years, get married.
They just like that was the.
Those were the relationships i saw and i was like well, if i'm 20 and i don't have someone, I don't have time.
I genuinely was like, it's your only perspective you have.
You just go, oh, my sister, you know, met her husband when she was 15.
My brother met his wife when he was 18.
And you just go like, that's the only way to do it.
And I'm running out of time and it's never going to happen.
Yeah, and every year you don't find someone.
It's like, I'm one year too late.
I'm two years too late.
Totally, yeah.
Oh, that's horrible.
Yeah.
Hugh and Ryan.
Yeah, Josh.
As you guys know, and as a lot of people know, we're doing a new live tour this year together again.
Grand new show.
What might be exciting is to tell people who will be joining us on stage.
Oh, there's some absolute beauties.
Yeah.
Hit us with some names, Josh.
So, they're not going to all be there at once.
Different places, different people.
But Steve Curry.
Dug a hole.
Susie Youssef.
Oh, yeah.
Christy Whelan-Brown.
Yes, please.
Hannah Ferguson.
Okay.
Rana Hussain.
Love her.
Matt O'Khan.
Great guy.
Hamish Black.
My best friend.
And...
Dr. M. Oh, my second best friend.
Imagine any one of those people at a show.
It's going to make it so much more fun for us because we love all of those people.
It's going to be great.
LiveNation.com.au for tickets to see us and a collection of Ryan's friends in order.
How did you know, you said before, that the puppeteer was cheating on you?
Yeah.
But did he?
Because we spoke to Matt O'Kine and he talked about being cheated on and it was a conversation we never had on the podcast, but it was really interesting.
I'm interested to know your experience of that.
Yeah.
So he was trying to find a show to watch on his laptop and it like just popped up with a message in the corner that was like I miss my head in your chest, or something like that.
It was like something like very clearly like a message from a girl about something.
I miss my head in your chest.
Yeah, it was something like that.
Oh, my head on your chest.
Yes, yeah.
Not in, not in.
In my head.
I said, I miss my head and your chest.
It was something on those lines.
It was very clearly a romantic message.
And I just was like oh, and he's like oh, but like.
This is obviously not a like we're not ever going to work out.
So that's why I'm pursuing other things.
And I was just like oh okay uh, and you know it had been a few months.
So you just kind of felt like, even though there was no discussion about it, that it was this exclusive thing.
Because you're also just like, how do you have the time?
I'm just like aren't you busy?
How do you have the time to date two people?
It's too, it's too difficult.
I mean cheaters cheaters before phones yeah, and computers must have run rampant, Like how are they ever caught?
This would be the only way they get caught now.
There's something so sinister about it for me, from an older guy and a younger girl because, as you said, you're like trying to work it all out.
That guy's had like 25 years of working it out and now knows all the tricks and all the manipulation.
Oh, totally.
It's so much more sinister when there's that age gap.
Yeah, he knew all the right things to say.
And I think that's yeah.
That's why I felt so just in it at that time and kind of had my blinders up to the crappy things, because I didn't really have any relationships that were really nice anyway.
So I wasn't able to go like oh, I deserve better, because I just didn't know what it should look like.
It's such a, to say the obvious, but just to say it out loud, it's such a horrible thing.
And I guess people cheat all the time and it happens a lot.
But I mean, I know a couple of people who've gone through really similar things and it doesn't like the breakup is not the end of it.
It's like, it's how it affects you for years and years after.
And I think they sort of know what to do.
So as soon as you sort of question anything, you go oh, I didn't really like how that happened, or like you didn't reply to me or something like that.
They go, well, I can't be with someone who's going to question everything I do.
And so suddenly it's like, oh, you've questioned me.
Well, then it's over.
And you just go, no, no, no, no, no.
And you want to like hold on to them tighter because you're worried that, OK, now I can't.
I can't ask about anything because that's going to end the relationship.
And so it's a really clear manipulation tactic, because they know you're not going to go.
Okay yes, let's end it, because you're in this situation.
And so it's rough.
But when I was talking to my mom about it afterwards and was actually opening up to her, as I was saying about, you know, realizing your parents are human too, mom was like oh yeah, like I was in this string.
Like you know, she went through a divorce.
You know she went through that and she had shitty relationships and she was saying oh, you know, I kept trying to date and I ended up in these three months long relationships.
I was like, oh, that's me.
And And it just kind of clicked and I went oh, like mum was dating and hating it and having all of these shitty experiences and it didn't you know.
And then she met my dad and she met my dad when you know, she was 28 or something like that and had kids and had a family and had this whole other story.
And it wasn't over for her because her first relationship didn't work out.
And it was like, oh, I kind of like things sort of clicked into place for me on that.
Was this potentially too much of a personal question?
Well, it's about your mum, but was she cheated on?
Is that why she potentially reacted so protectively because she knows the feeling?
Yeah, and maybe I'll talk about this, but then I might just message my mum and be like is this okay?
Yeah, her relationship was really toxic.
So this sort of really... like awful relationship experience for her.
I think she saw that in me and went like, I can't, that, that hurt me.
She's like.
It still hurts me.
Now, even though I'm happy and I'm married and I'm with someone I love, you still hold on to those past relationship traumas.
And I think she just didn't want that to happen to me.
And she's very protective of her kids because yeah she, she had this dude around that was yeah, not a good guy.
So yeah, It's a lot to unpack with her, but it just kind of made me understand a little better.
It's a pretty amazing contextual piece of the puzzle to understand why.
Well, that probably explains why she felt like she needed to read all the messages, because she was like I'm worried for her because of what happened to me.
Yeah.
Totally.
And I have that, those sort of aspects of my personality of just like wanting to control things.
And I can imagine if I had kids in the future.
It's so you would want to control the outcomes of them.
You want, you want everything.
You want to protect them and you want to keep them innocent and, and you know, make them feel like nothing can hurt them.
And so it's yeah, it's not, it's.
You only realize that when you're older, and I wish I realized it at the time of sort of understanding the that a little more.
And if that was the case, I may have gone to my mom earlier and gone, she wouldn't happen.
She wouldn't have read my messages, because I would have said hey mom, I'm in this weird relationship.
I don't know what to do.
And I'm feeling this way.
Then it may have ended in a better way and in a healthier way.
And I would have, you know, not felt so controlled by it, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's like my kids are really young, but whenever I see them displaying traits that remind me of myself, I always react in a way I – negative traits.
I always react in a way I regret.
Whereas when they're doing things that are sort of, I say negative, but like just –
Traits that are not easy to handle or causing an issue that are not my traits are much easier.
I can sort of handle it.
That's so interesting.
I feel even the same sort of with my partner because he also has ADHD.
He's also on the autism spectrum.
And when he's messy, I weirdly get angry.
But it's like his pile of washing is right next to my pile of washing.
I'm like, clean that up.
I know that like I'm actually mad at myself that I've let the house get out of control.
But it's much easier to be like OK, so every time you take up, you get up and you have your ADHD medication, you get a new glass.
And they just sort of, there's about 12 glasses of water that accumulate on one side of the bench.
And I look at those glasses of water and I can get really angry.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, my makeup is sitting on the bathroom counter and you can barely even get to the tap.
So I know that I'm being hypocritical, but I think that's part of it.
I'm attacking him, but I'm attacking myself at the same time.
Yeah, I think it's the traits that remind you of yourself that really blow you up.
And I think I'm not surprised that, given the way you've also described how similar you and your mum are and the stories there, it's like I can totally see how she would immediately react in a way that she's like fuck, why did I do that?
My dad was sort of like he would blow up in an angry way, but it would always be.
We would kind of laugh about it because he's so funny.
So, you know, we'd be putting together like a bookshelf or something.
You've got to hold the thing while he's nailing it or holding it correctly.
And he's like, well, just fuck it then.
Yeah.
And then five minutes later, he'd be like, was a bit psycho there.
And it was just like we just we always knew that like okay, dad's reacted this way, but it will always be like he was really good at apologizing and really good at being like.
You know, that was a bit too far.
Yeah, yeah.
Can I ask you about?
Because I've heard this said a lot in my life, but I've never heard someone talk about it in detail and you might not have anything to say here.
But I think that there's.
I've heard that a relationship between a mother and a daughter, when it's a healthy one, is like something unique and very special.
Yeah.
But I'd love to know what that is for you.
Like what makes it special and what makes it unique?
Yeah, it's an interesting one, because I still wouldn't put myself in that category of you know, when you see I don't know people who are like I've got my mum around, I'm going to braid each other's hair.
And I guess I was a bit of just like a tomboy.
And I honestly think...
I don't really have that many relationships with women.
It's actually quite a hard thing to do.
I think, um, in a lot of ways, like I didn't have a lot of like lots of girl mates around me.
The closest thing I have to girl mates is like a netball team.
That's like the way I try and make girlfriends, but I just weirdly found it easier.
Or maybe I just had more common interests, um, with, with guys.
And I think you guys have spoken about this before.
I was listening to the episode with Hannah Ferguson.
Um, I wonder why.
Um, Just constantly scouring, checking transcripts for my name.
This one sounds good.
You just tagged me.
Just about that thing about having relationships where you're side by side as opposed to face to face.
And I've always been more comfortable with side by side.
And I kind of, I don't know, maybe I just still kind of love that.
I still like the idea of having a deep and meaningful chat in the car, because you don't have to look at each other.
Because it makes you, I don't know, I feel like looking at people.
I can kind of, you know, tense up a bit.
Yeah.
And the idea of doing an activity.
All of my first dates were always like go play a game, go play football, because then it felt like there was always something to talk about.
You didn't have to stress about making conversation.
You could, you know, talk about what you were doing and have fun and win, because I'm a very competitive person.
And so I, as a result, feel like I don't have that many like gal pals.
And I try, I think I'm trying, but maybe I'm not trying hard enough because I moved to Melbourne.
I was like, okay, I have to make friends.
This is really hard.
And so joining a netball team felt like the first thing.
I'm like, okay, I'm getting sort of close to this person.
Oh, she's moved to Geelong.
And you just like as an adult, it's so much harder because people already have kind of set down their roots.
And a lot of my friends at school were like, because we'd go home and we'd get on Skype and we would chat and play video games for hours.
And that was maybe just growing up on the internet age.
And becoming that, I don't know feeling more comfortable being able to communicate without being seen.
That sort of contributes to that.
But I always so wanted to be part of this big group of girls and wanted to do that and wanted to have those connections.
It just didn't happen.
And it's not out of lack of trying.
And I do try.
I'm like, let's go get coffee.
But sometimes...
I think it's a sort of, again, an ADHD thing of this rejection sensitivity.
So if you just say, oh, we're all going to go to the sports game.
You can come if you want.
That feels fine if they don't say yes.
But if you go, can you and I go get a coffee?
And they go, I'm too busy.
It feels like... you're the issue.
It's not a schedule thing.
It's just someone doesn't want to hang out with you.
So I guess it's just that protective layer of if there's another thing that you were going to do anyway and you bring someone in on that, you don't have to be afraid of them saying no or rejecting you.
I feel exactly the same.
Yeah, yeah.
Especially with trying to make new friends.
As you get older and you meet people that you're like oh, you're really the kind of person I want to be friends with.
But the fear of saying like do you want to just – I guess alcohol is somewhat acceptable.
Like let's go grab a drink.
That kind of like there's a point to it.
I know.
But to say like –
Do you want to just get a coffee or like lunch?
That to me is like, oh, if I'm not absolutely on my hundred percent best game.
I'm going to screw this.
It feels like a job interview.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've screwed the whole thing.
Whereas if it's like a group of us are already doing this, come along if you want.
Like no big deal if you can't.
Or, and even if you come along, it's not on me.
Like there's a sporting, like there's something to focus on that I'm not responsible for.
Then it's like okay, I think I can manage that totally.
Yeah, and I and I feel and I say that I'm trying, but I think that my trying is is not quite right, in the sense that telling someone let's get a drink sometime, let's hang out sometime, is not really a request at all, because it will never happen.
You go, we've got to catch up yeah, and you say these things and you feel like I'm really trying, but it's not happening because no one's making the plan, no one's actually doing anything, and you just feel like oh, I did that thing, I checked off that box of of reaching out, but you're not actually reaching out in a way that um, Putting your time in the calendar.
That makes you vulnerable at all.
And so I have that so much with people who I've been like oh, I'm trying to make friends with this person.
I'm trying to get close to this person.
I will just go, yeah, we've got to do this.
And it just never happens.
And then I'm like, oh, I've been living in Melbourne for five years.
And I'm like, I've got friends that are all from New Zealand.
And so it's just, And a netball too.
Yeah, and a netball too.
It's interesting because, like I mean, a lot of people wouldn't like.
They know you as a performer and a stand-up, but they don't know that a big part of your working life is writing.
Like you do a lot of writing.
And such a big part of writing is rejection.
Yeah.
And so it's like, you're constantly like putting out ideas, scripts, you're suggesting a joke.
And so much of it is people going like yeah, I don't know if that's like, that's like 90 of the job.
It's a classic thing.
In like a writer's room as you go not this, but something along the lines of this, because you're so scared.
You're just like, I'm just trying to like start the idea going, but it's definitely not this.
This is really shit.
This is the worst pitch you've ever heard.
But I gotta say, even though in the head you're like I think this is actually really, You just never want to have confidence in an idea because it feels like you're opening yourself up to someone.
But when we were working together I didn't get the sense that you had any sort of emotional fear about putting ideas out there.
You seemed pretty like, oh, we'll just keep going.
It's something that I think is with time you work on.
And it's like as you do it more, it's like you're sort of priming yourself to be rejected.
And if you do it enough.
I feel like people do it on TikTok, where they're like rejection, sensitive training, and they'll go up to someone and just be like hey like, do you want to grab a coffee?
And it's just like a random person and they know the person's going to say no, but they just do it to feel like I felt that no.
And I don't think it has any science behind it.
I genuinely think it's a meme.
Just good content.
But there's some truth to it in the sense that if you, you know, you realise not to take it so personally over time of working in writers' rooms and being a woman in a writers' room, you're like not with you obviously, but like in a bigger writers' room.
No one's going to hear this anyway.
I'll wait for someone to pitch the same idea I just said in five minutes.
That's amazing.
We had a guy on the podcast called Cam Walker who's a YouTuber and an author illustrator.
Struthless.
Struthless, yeah.
And he said that he did this thing where, when something really bad would happen, he would say how is this the best thing that's ever going to happen to me?
Or how is this the best thing that's ever happened?
That's how he'd try and reframe it.
And I was just wondering if that really toxic, awful relationship happened.
Might not be the best thing that ever happened to you, but has it helped you in your future relationships in identifying what you do and don't want.
Definitely.
And everything just sort of needs time because I genuinely had feelings for this person.
It's not like I was like just... felt like I was caught in a trap.
I genuinely really – I thought we had so much in common.
I thought we would like – he was so easy to talk to, and I find it hard sometimes to talk to people.
And so I was like – there were things about it that I was like, oh, this is what I really want.
But the thing I really – I think what I've realised is having those bad relationships – is why my current relationship, I think, is so strong, because I don't miss dating at all.
People who are in relationships, they go, oh, I miss being out there on the prowl.
No, I hated it.
I really had a terrible time with it.
And so I know I don't want to be single and I know I want to be with this person who my partner.
We met in high school.
We did not date in high school and we did not date until many, many, many years after high school.
And both of us are so glad we didn't.
Because we got to go out and have these life experiences.
We got to kind of become better people as well.
I'm not going to say I was the perfect person in my 20s.
I made heaps of mistakes.
And I think that was really useful for me to do not with this person who I really love.
And so I did learn a lot from the toxic relationships or even just the relationships where...
Nothing necessarily bad happened.
It was just with the wrong person.
I know why they were the wrong person.
One of the things I've found surprising in my life and I want to caveat this because I know that some people have pretty bad relationships with their parents and their parents can be very challenging people but something I've found that sounds like it might resonate with you is that when I have gotten to the point when I really needed to talk to someone and I'm like I'm just going to have to talk to my parents because they're the only ones I feel I can talk, I've always been shocked at how incredible their counsel and advice has been.
I'm like, where did that wisdom come from?
And that's exactly what I needed to hear.
It's funny.
I was thinking about it how, when I was a kid, I would be so fearful of getting in trouble for certain things that maybe I thought I was going to get in trouble for everything.
So I would do something that was clearly an accident.
I dropped a vase or something and it would break and I would cry.
I'd be like, I'm so sorry.
And my parents would be like, It's okay.
It's just a vase.
And you think oh, like in your imagination, they're going to say oh my God, that's the best vase we've ever had and you've ruined the whole day.
And you think, oh, my gosh, I've ruined everything.
But it's maybe because you've kind of made a few mistakes where you have gotten in trouble and you just can't work out what are the okay mistakes to make.
And something that's clearly an accident, you just knocked something and there was no avoiding it.
Yeah.
It's not a decision to go and smash the vase.
They're obviously very empathetic and they can understand and make you feel better about it.
And also, as you get older, you sort of better understand that, like your parents' reaction, knowing what was the right mistake and wrong mistake, it's like it's very dependent on probably, their mood on that day.
Yeah, exactly.
Like it's actually nothing to do with the type of vase.
It's actually to do with the type of day they were having.
Totally.
Totally.
But I also think as a parent, when that happens, you can tell the genuine remorse and the genuine emotion of the child straight away.
It doesn't really matter if I'm having a shit day or not.
If they do something that they feel genuinely bad about, it cuts straight to the core straight away and it elicits the right response.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it's so fascinating because it's like I haven't gone for ages, to be fair, but I had been going to therapy.
And it's when they talk about your childhood right, and they talk about how many things sort of shape who you are.
But she was always very careful to be like, this is not like bad parenting.
These are just things that happen and things that happen when we're a kid.
Also just, you know your parents.
If they grew up in a well, you smack a kid and all those sorts of things that just the way that they were raised.
You sort of get this perspective and it shapes who you are as a person, because that's.
My mum had a tough time growing up.
She was the only girl and she had five brothers and they were all very, very religious and my mum felt very sort of restrained in that way.
My dad was adopted.
I didn't know he was adopted until he was like in his teens, like 14, 15.
Adopted by his auntie, so grew up with his cousins.
And we looked back and we're like, oh, this is so funny and crazy.
We go, these family photos where...
His siblings, we thought his siblings, tiny.
He's this really tall guy.
It was like the movie Elf.
We're like, oh, that's so crazy and funny.
But he saw a photo of him, a family photo, and he said, I hate that photo.
I hate it because I feel like I completely don't fit in with the family.
And I was growing up and I didn't know why.
I didn't know why I was different to these people.
I thought they were my brothers and sisters.
And I don't know why I'm the odd one out.
And when he found out that, you know, his...
Real siblings were living down the road.
And the reason why he was adopted and grew up with his auntie was because his mum passed away when he was like six weeks old.
And so his dad can go, I can take these kids to work.
I can't raise a baby by myself with all these other kids.
It's too hard.
And he, you know, dropped out of school and he's definitely had ADHD as well.
Lived in a tree house for a year.
Like I'm just like, as soon as I like remember my parents' stories, I just go.
Oh my God Melody, like get a grip.
You had a house.
You had somewhere to live.
You have family that loves you.
You have all of these.
You're so privileged in a lot of ways.
And it kind of yeah, you empathize so much more with your parents as you kind of get to the age that they were when they were going through those crappy things.
When you were in that relationship with the puppeteer, yep, 40-year-old puppeteer, and you said you sort of logically knew it wasn't, there were some things that were not right, what was your sort of self-dialogue, self-worth like during that?
Yeah.
And in the sense that I knew it wasn't right, I just meant in a logistical way, even.
I was like, this guy's 40.
So if I get married when I'm 30, he's going to be 50.
And there's just all of these things.
And I was hiding the relationship.
I didn't want to tell anyone about it.
And that's not a good sign.
I wasn't excited.
I can't wait for my parents to meet their peer.
Yeah.
I just was like, I was not excited in that sense.
And I always kind of had this fairytale view of like this.
If I ended up in a relationship, it would be like my siblings.
And I would be so excited to introduce them to members of my family.
I always knew it wasn't. really right, but I guess I just... I had a lot of low self-esteem.
My relationship before that was with It was my first boyfriend and it was a comedian and I hadn't started comedy.
And I... was just really, really into him and he was not into me in the same way.
But he just was so awkward he didn't know how to break up with me.
And so he got on the radio because he was a radio host.
I remember tuning in and he was like a love advice segment.
He's like we get this question a lot, but I think let's just dive into it.
How do you break up with someone?
And I was just like no, but as my logic was just still like, I kept trying to cling on to this relationship so hard.
I was like, oh, now he's just telling publicly how he's going to break up with me so I can avoid it.
So it would be like...
And the advice would be like oh, you've got to make sure you break up at their house because you don't want them to come over to your house, and then they won't leave.
And I was like 18, so very young.
Didn't know really much about relationships.
And I remember him being like, oh, should I come around?
I'm like, nah, nah, I'm busy.
Okay. avoiding this breakup.
I was just like, I knew how he was going to do it.
So I was like, I can prolong this relationship for ages because I can just dodge the breakup.
And I was like, that's a big mistake.
Don't show your cards, you know.
Ding dong.
Don't come in.
Don't come in.
And so, yeah, I definitely did not have a lot of confidence.
But you're just your brain.
You justify things in so many ways.
When you feel like you're, I felt like I loved this person.
I know now that I didn't because I really know what love feels like.
But I was, I guess, in love with the idea of being in a relationship.
And so I justified so much and again had stupid logic of like well, if we break up, we'll never finish Narcos.
Yeah.
You know, we're in season two and it's getting good and so we've got to keep watching this show.
And then you know all of those like silly parts of your brain that, just like logistically, we can't break up.
Because of all of these reasons.
But the reality of it is was probably Cause he was stifling my self-confidence and making me not feel like he didn't.
He made me feel really special and then really worthless and sort of in a manner of days.
And and and I.
I just kind of had this push and pull of it, which I think is just a tactic to have someone stay.
Um and so yeah, I would say pretty low and it uh, And yeah, I obviously wasn't happy, even though I thought I was happy because the happy moments were so great.
Yeah.
It felt awesome.
Certainly in comparison.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So you're in a great relationship now.
What comes first, your increased self-worth or a great relationship?
Hmm.
Yeah, I think the self-worth probably comes before that.
And I say that weirdly.
I mean, I don't know if my self-worth was that high when I got in my current relationship.
I mean, people say like, oh, what is that?
You've got to love yourself before you can love anyone else.
I don't know if I fully agree with that.
Sometimes people can come in and they can heal you in a way.
They can kind of sort of not to say you should expect that from people, and that's a requirement for a relationship.
And sometimes having low self-worth can sabotage a relationship.
But for me, both of us were not in the best place.
My boyfriend had short-term memory loss.
We went through all of these medical things.
Not until about maybe six months into our relationship, finally found out it was B12 deficiency.
His doctor just did not give him a blood test and put him on antidepressants because they thought he was so depressed.
That's why he couldn't remember anything.
It's a wild, I mean, this is a whole stand-up special.
Yes, this is my show on YouTube, Forget Me Not.
We'll link to that.
That's so good.
And it was just about this sort of journey we went on, which was yeah, he had short-term memory loss, in the sense that he would not be able to remember much from a day.
His long-term memory was fine because we knew each other in school.
Like we kind of, you know, he knew I wasn't a stranger or anything.
But it would be like we would play basketball and then the next day he'd be like I'm thinking about basketball for some reason.
I don't know why.
We played for like two hours yesterday.
One time I took him to like a friend's house and we were like playing Nintendo and he's like I just need some fresh air.
He went out and then I get a text from him and he just says like where am I?
And he'd gone and he went outside.
He went and had a nap, woke up, had no idea where he was, wandered like through the streets and he had text his dad and being like do you know?
Like why i'm in like mount albert.
He's like no, i don't, and it was this really scary time and and it was this b12 deficiency and it feels so like, so crazy at how in like kind of minor it is.
It's just because he was on a vegetarian diet, stopped eating eggs, And he was much better after he got some supplements and things.
But both of us were not in a good... So I was sort of in this caretaking role.
And then I had also just had a sort of mini breakup with someone.
I had this sort of on and off again relationship that finally kind of properly ended and I was not in a great space, but oddly, I don't know, there was this sort of like this caretaker role that kind of helped me through it as well.
Like us looking after each other almost helped us both heal from those things.
You know, like I was able to kind of go in this like, oh, who gives a crap about this?
I need to look after this person.
I need to make sure they're okay.
And I need to – I really want to like – I think I love this person and I need to, you know, help them.
I realised the difference between our relationship and relationships I've had in the past was I didn't plan any conversations in advance.
I know that's so stupid, but I remember thinking like oh, when I was in these relationships where I felt like someone was pulling away from me, I thought how do I fix this or how do I make this work?
And I realised, I was like going, oh, I can tell them this anecdote, okay?
And I would actually put a note in my phone and plan things to say to them and how to have a conversation with them in order to make them like me.
And I wasn't really being myself.
I wasn't feeling natural.
I was feeling like...
I don't know.
I was trying to script this relationship because that's the way I feel, like I'm a bit of a problem solver.
And that's why I think I say, oh, my God, all of these people have left me.
In reality, I've never dumped anyone because I feel like I want to fix everything.
And it's not that I feel like, oh my God, I'm horrible and this person's amazing and I need to cling on to it for that reason.
I felt like leaving a relationship was like quitting on something.
It was losing competitively, plan anything.
I would just go.
He would love to hear this and I would say it and I would feel like we clicked in a way that didn't, I don't know, didn't feel like I was trying, I know and it sounds so silly, but yeah, I just remember being like I don't have to wait a week to text him in order to make sure I seem cool.
Oh my god, I just was so glad to sort of abandon that because I'm like well, I gotta text him.
He won't remember the last text.
Anyway, It's all good.
I've heard from you in ages.
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
This is probably not the right time to ask this, but why do you think everyone from New Zealand is such a great person?
Oh gosh, that's such a loaded question.
Oh yes, I'm the first person on the Imperfects podcast to be perfect.
Wow, that's an interesting question.
I don't know if I can fully answer that because there's a few bad eggs in our government.
Just people I've met.
Yeah.
My hairdresser.
Oh, yeah, yeah, New Zealand.
Shout out to Mike.
I mean, obviously I love New Zealand and I love New Zealanders and I will be very biased and say yeah, I am so grateful I grew up in New Zealand.
We're just small.
We just – you know, we don't take ourselves too seriously.
It's –
It's hard to be cocky when you're a little tiny island that no one cares about.
You just feel like you're off in the corner.
And so, I don't know.
I think we just have a really relaxed way of life.
I also think that the Māori culture in New Zealand is so important and amazing.
And I'm always so grateful.
That's why I'm mad at the government, because it's such a special thing about New Zealand is our Māori cultural heritage.
And when I see sort of that stuff getting stripped away or even just lessened to any extent, I'm just like, oh it sucks.
Because you know, when I go home to New Zealand I feel like amazing when I hear Te Reo Māori on TV and when I see it live.
And when you arrive at the airport and you think this is something that makes our country so unique and special.
And there's so many values that I think carry through New Zealanders, even white New Zealanders, who don't really realize that I'm very small part Maori.
And so it's sort of part of my family.
And I think it's a really cool part about New Zealand.
Yeah, absolutely.
So with your mum?
Just back to your mum.
How do you think it would have affected your relationship if your mum had have like, been for whatever reason and this is like a lot of people for whatever reason, she would have been too proud to write you the email and you know and didn't apologise, basically.
Yeah, it would be really hard.
And it was really hard at the time because I had felt like it was a very clear like this is a stepping over a boundary, and when you feel like your boundary has been crossed and then they just stay in there, you just sort of go, you just have this sort of slight discomfort and I think if she hadn't apologised I would maybe think well, maybe we don't have that much in common because she can't see me and she can't hear what I'm saying.
And so I think it was a really important thing to happen for us to really get past that.
And I think it would have definitely just been an unspoken barrier between us, which would have been a shame.
Yeah.
It's sort of like a really amazing way, like a big apology, like that is like an incredible way of sort of saying I'm not better than you.
Yeah.
And there isn't this default hierarchy.
But just because I'm your mum, it doesn't mean that I'm always right.
That's quite a powerful change.
Yeah, and I think she grew up in a time where the parents were always right.
Her parents were probably in that same category of respect your elders.
Respect your elders no matter what.
And I have members of my family that again, like you know, parts of my extended family, who have done something wrong by me.
And they're so shocked that I don't just sort of sit back and go, oh, I'm so sorry.
Even though you're the one who's come to my comedy show and heckled and everything.
And berated me in the bar afterwards, and I'm supposed to be like, oh, no, I'm sorry.
So it's – yeah, and I don't – I'm not close with everyone in my family.
I've got such a huge family so I've got like 25 cousins and so I have cousins who I like never speak to because I just don't have – I don't like –.
And it's true, it's genuinely true.
Out of 25, it's bound to be one or two.
Yeah, exactly.
One of my cousins.
It's funny.
I was like one of my first kind of comedy filmed things.
It was around an election.
And I was doing these informative pieces about like she was supposed to be skewed to younger people to be like how does the parliamentary system work?
We're going to explain in Tim Tams.
And so we'd have all the Tim Tams to be the seats and stuff.
It was supposed to be quirky.
We were funded by the Electoral Commission, so it couldn't really be too satirical or skew any way left or right.
It had to be just pretty informative.
But I think we still did a good job of making it fun.
And there was this comment that was like I don't understand why these comedians think they're funny.
Blah blah, blah.
And I looked at it and it was my cousin.
And I was like, and not even just like a cousin who I'd never speak to.
This is a cousin that I grew up with and went bike rides with as a kid and was talking about me like I wasn't his cousin.
And it was such a strange, weird thing to do.
And then you know later on I did a show about this because I got sent this thread.
That was the most vile thing I've ever read about myself.
Someone sent it and said, hey, I think you should see this.
And it was on this properly like right wing extremist side.
So it was like it wasn't this, but it was along the lines of like Knights of Excalibur or something.
Like it was this really like hard out men's rights.
Women have a certain role in society.
It was like the most extreme.
And it was like, why are New Zealand women so ugly?
And I was the example.
So they would say like they would take these screenshots of me talking and find an unflattering photo.
And they would say all of these really harsh things.
And the person who sent me that thread, my cousin.
And so it was just I have this because he was like I was which again.
What are you doing there?
My mom was convinced that he wrote the thread.
I don't think he wrote the thread.
But I'm like he's like I stumbled across it.
Like, you're on these threads.
You're part of this community of these really awful people.
Whether you follow it or not, it's in your algorithm.
Yeah, and so I just was like I'm cutting this person off and I don't think I ever want to talk to them again.
Like, he explained it as...
He's like, I thought you would want to understand constructive criticism or something.
I was like, I don't think this is very constructive.
I don't know if you're the most hideous person in the world as possibly me.
You know what?
I'm going to think on that and reflect.
I just...
How can I rewrite my next show to adjust for that?
Yeah, it's just, and I don't think you need to be close to everyone in your family.
I don't think if someone is toxic to you and they don't provide anything of value to your life, I don't think you have to feel obligated to keep them in your circle.
And you need to protect yourself.
And if you are feeling vulnerable, don't let those people in.
They don't have your best interest at heart.
Yeah.
And you're not going to receive anything of value from them.
How do you go with I think it's under the ADHD sort of banner of questioning here.
But when you hear negative comments or you hear something like that, even though we can go, we can be, we can say that's not like, that's irrational, that's a stupid thing to say, but does it still hurt and do you still think about it for a long time?
It's funny how you just have to be told it a million times.
You just, you can't look at it.
And you have to.
I just remember thinking, but I have to.
I have to see what people are saying about me.
This is part of my job and actually don't really.
And I now have very sort of strict filters on my comments.
Some get through, but I have filters for my standup clips.
The phrase women aren't funny.
Oh, another unfunny female comedian.
Oh, blah, blah, blah.
There's certain phrases I've tried to find every variation of these like really misogynistic things, so that I just don't see it on my profile.
Yeah.
Any nights of Excalibur content.
Yeah, exactly.
I know it hurts me.
And it hurts me to a different extent at certain times.
So if I'm feeling fine, I can laugh at it and I go, oh, that's so ridiculous.
But if it catches me in a moment of vulnerability, it will really hurt me and I'll think about it.
And I'll feel frustrated because I worked so hard to be good at comedy.
And so when someone sort of writes me off before I've even said anything –
It's really, really frustrating.
And so I have to not see it.
And when it gets through, it's still hard.
I had this interaction where someone had tweeted me and they had just said something like dropped a C-bomb at me or something like that.
And I was like and a lot of people do this where they go, they take the screenshot of the comment and they post it because they know they've got an audience and they go.
Let's tear this person apart.
And I'm not going to say I'm an angel and I've never, ever done that.
I have done that.
And I just remember it made me feel good for like five seconds.
And then you see, and you're like people like I've messaged them and I've found their workplace, and you're oh, this has gone too far.
So I don't do that anymore.
Not because I think if people do that, that makes them a bad person or anything negative.
I just think.
I didn't think it was serving me in the way I thought it would at the time.
And I think it's true that if you have a platform, you do have a, there's a power dynamic there.
So if you're using your platform to encourage people who probably they've said something like that, not in a good space mentally.
No one is perfectly mentally happy and sound and writing something that harsh about someone.
So I would feel like so awful if I replied to a comment and then that caused someone to sort of spiral further mentally, even if they are an asshole.
And I remember once this guy who tweeted at me and I went, I'm not going to reply.
I'm not going to reply, but I'm just going to look at his profile.
And he had lung cancer.
He was really, really sick.
And I just had this moment and I just replied to him.
I said, I'm sorry.
I saw your other tweets.
I think you're going through a tough time.
I would hate to see you direct that at other people.
And he said, Oh my gosh, you're so right.
He followed me.
He likes all of my posts.
It's like I did a complete 180 on this one guy.
And it's not the practical to think I can turn everyone who hates me into someone who likes me, but just more a case of like the kind of kill him with kindness sort of thing that sometimes those people genuinely just they're saying this because they need to be heard.
They're feeling isolated.
Yeah.
I mean in sort of a roundabout way.
It's kind of like a lesson you learned from your mum in a weird way.
It's sort of like going, they just want to be seen.
And for you to like see them and go, I know you're going through a tough time.
They're like, yeah, that's, thank you.
It's just like attention, you know, and could be really necessary.
And I think we sort of kind of dehumanize people on the internet because they don't feel like real people.
And so people in the same way would only comment that.
They would never say that to me in real life.
And in the same way I see their comment and I don't see them as necessarily a person because they've got a truck as their profile picture.
I don't know anything about this person.
And I think we make the mistake of assuming like oh, this person is like evil, cannot be redeemed trash, and this person is an angel and amazing.
And then the reality is we're all just sort of bumbling through life and making mistakes and you know, you've got to remember the sort of position you're in and for me that's a very privileged position and the people who are really unkind to me I wouldn't want to trade lives with them, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, and so I just have to keep reminding myself of that.
But It's not something that I'm that good at yet.
I'm trying.
It still hurts sometimes.
I saw a wonderful face-to-face example of exactly what you're just talking about.
I did a lot of stuff with the Queensland State of Origin team, the rugby league, and I was hanging out with on the day of a game in New South Wales.
I was hanging out with the Queensland coach, Billy Slater, and a guy fully dressed in the opposition's New South Wales stuff came up to Billy right into his face and said the most vile stuff.
It was awful what he said to Billy.
And Billy goes, mate, I love your passion.
I love how much you love your footy side.
And the guy goes...
Oh, thanks, mate.
Can I get a photo?
And then next minute I'm taking a photo of this guy and he walked off, looking so at first confused but then like quite chuffed.
That's so funny.
That's Billy Slater.
Yeah yeah, like on the on the dealing with bad comments and stuff like that.
I just don't think we should be expected to be okay with that.
Like it's such a new thing.
It's like it would be like being a stand-up, you know, 40 years ago.
It would be like going into the foyer afterwards in disguise and listening to the comments, and not only that, following them home and listening to what they're saying.
And then, even then, if they said oh, she was shocking, If they saw you sitting there, they'd be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I didn't want you to know that.
Totally.
No rational person would ever want to say that.
I've ever had done a show and had to rush to another gig afterwards, so I had to walk out with the audience.
But I really try and make it clear, like, coming through to try and stop them from making comments.
But I remember one time and I've never heard anyone say anything negative, because my shows are obviously perfect.
Perfect.
But the one that I think about all the time was just hearing someone come out of my show and go.
And I just was like that is.
The worst piece of feedback I could have ever heard was just yeah, that was a show.
That was 60 minutes.
It's so funny how mild it was, but how much it stuck in my head.
Yeah.
Wow.
Mel, thanks for coming on.
No worries.
So should we do the next card?
We work our three ways of a day.
So yeah, we've got 51 to go.
Well, it's been great to chat to you today.
Thank you so much.
We are massive fans.
And I feel like we haven't had long conversations about the dynamics between relationships with parents.
And yeah, I think it's going to help a lot of people.
So thank you so much.
Thanks, Mel.
No worries.
Hello?
Sorry.
You hang up.
If you liked today's episode of The Imperfects, or even if you didn't, you're still allowed to sign up to our weekly newsletter, My Imperfect Email, at theimperfectscomau, and it has reflective questions every week and takeaways on that week's episode.
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11, 14.
