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Hello, welcome to Roundtable serve up piping hot debates on the issues that sizzle in China and beyond.
I'm Niu Honglin.
From the streets of Wuxi to the boulevards of Shanghai, China's marathon boom has been nothing short of extraordinary.
Millions of runners, billions of yuan, and a growing sense of pride and passion.
But starting this autumn, the sound of footsteps started to quiet down a bit.
Many races cancelled or scaled back.
New rules rolled out.
The Chinese Athletics Association makes it clear that now is the time to trade speed for stability, to make running safer, cleaner and more professional.
So what happens when an industry built on motion suddenly has to slow down a bit?
For this episode, i'm joined by steve hatherly and hello.
Ladies and gentlemen, there have been many important moments in chinese history.
Beginning in the year 960, the Song Dynasty saw a period of major technological innovation.
Beginning in the late 1300s, the Ming Dynasty saw the completion of the Great Wall and the creation of the Forbidden City.
And in November 2025, Lai Ming returned to Roundtable.
Welcome back, Lai Ming!
What's the occasion?
Why?
Um...
That's a very warm welcome.
I wanted to do something special for you today because it's been so long.
Well to be fair He has been on all of the China Horizon special series on Roundtable.
It's just welcoming him back to the studio doing live show with us and, you know, also teasing him a little bit.
I even chose my old man British voice for you today.
What a surprise.
I had no idea.
Thank you, guys.
Welcome back to the show.
And I'm pretty sure we can have some really good discussion.
Now grab your virtual compass and follow us to the heart of the conversation.
A marathon is more than a race.
It's a metaphor for persistence, for community, for how a society moves forward together.
China's marathon boom once mirrored its economic spirit.
Rapid, thrilling, and unstoppable.
But growth without order always meets its limits.
So it seems like now we are learning to pace.
And this all comes in when, just in 2024, we see the number of road running events shot up to 749 nationwide, attracting about 7 million participants.
That is a huge number because in 2022, the number was just 390,000.
So we see all these races, we see all these competitions happening in different parts of the country, yet some problems also arise.
But before going into the hiccups in these races, let's take a look at China, the overall, the bigger picture of China's marathon market.
Well, according to the Chinese Athletics Association, in 2024, 749 road running events were held nationwide and drew approximately 7 million participants, which New Holding has already highlighted for us.
And that's a million more than the entire population of Singapore.
So it's very, very impressive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And...
How many?
You said 749.
So as of June, the middle to late part of June this year, there were over 270 marathon races.
That number includes half marathons that were held across the country.
It's been an explosion in popularity.
Yeah, I have to say, practically witnessed the increase in popularity of marathons over the past few decades.
I remember it was more than 10 years ago when a friend of mine said he was traveling to southern city, maybe Wuxi or somewhere in Jiangsu province.
And we were surprised to find out that he was actually a marathon enthusiast.
Back then we thought, oh, marathons.
That's a very lengthy challenge.
Yeah, it's like something for Olympic athletes or something like that, right?
You mentioned Jiangsu.
The Jiangsu River Delta region, including Jiangsu and Zhejiang and Shanghai and eastern parts of the country.
That's kind of the major hub for runners, and those areas account for about 20 of the total of all the races held in the country for the first half of the year.
Really popular in those regions.
And it made a lot of sense for these regions to want to organize events like this, because a lot of international events competitions were commonly held in these regions, and so they should have the experience and the capacity to manage such an event that involves a huge amount of participants.
And it definitely drives the economic development.
We see when people go participate in these kind of events, they sometimes would travel to the city, stay in the city after running or before running.
I'm not really sure how athletic or how energetic you will be after running a marathon.
Do you still have the energy to tour the city a little bit?
Maybe, maybe the family can enjoy the destinations in the city.
I'm guessing if you have the energy to run on A marathon, then seeing the city afterwards is not that big a deal.
Perhaps.
You should be able to recover soon.
Yes, yes.
And in China, road races are officially divided into four labels under the Chinese Athletics Association.
There are the A1 A2, B and C.
In general, there are different types of standards of measurement.
Timing of all these different races.
The idea is that if you're running an A1 as a professional athlete, then you are can upload your records into the World Athletics ranking and also if you're running A2, meaning that you can have your record being listed by the China's Athletics Association.
The national level yes, the national level.
And for B and C, it's mainly that for people to enjoy the well, the game, for vanity purposes, to show off and so you can brag about it a little bit, or just for fun too yes, and especially for the C level one, it can be managed by provincial associations or city spot bureaus not certified by caa, meaning that for some smaller cities, even township, they can organize such events.
But the reason we're explaining this is that uh, recently we well, by saying recently, i mean the very last day of last month we are looking at, we're witnessing some new rules um, related to the organizing, related to the a adjacent management of these races.
And it has been quite in the middle of the conversation, especially for the marathon enthusiasts.
Sure.
Yeah.
They rolled out the marathon calendar for the autumn time.
And what they found was that there were nearly 100 events That were either being canceled or being scaled back.
So by mid-October of this season, 66 events had been canceled and another 37 were postponed or scaled back.
Those are the specific numbers.
And that's a really significant point because October to December, they say, is typically the peak.
It accounts for about 40% of the year's entire races.
The cancellations covered both major city marathons and also smaller runs, or fun runs as they're sometimes called, and there are various examples of that.
Yeah, the Chinese Athletics Association released new regulations to professionalize and standardize the sport.
And they focus mainly on safety and governance.
And they hope to improve event organization systems and define the responsibility of involved parties and strengthen risk prevention and safety.
These all sound very official, but to summarize, the idea is to I mean, there's a whole range of events.
The number is a lot, and then the number of enthusiasts and participants is also huge, but It's not safe to say that all of them are well-organized.
There's been some complaints.
I think a few years back, beginning with complaints about, for instance, in Beijing, the Beijing Marathon.
There were pictures of people taking a leak.
Oh, really?
Near a palace wall or something.
So it was not pleasant.
And it really caused some concerns among internet users.
That was the organization part.
By saying organization, I mean the management of all the services, all of the related facilities of these kind of races.
What I heard, well, I also heard some complaints from my friends who runs the marathon.
That is.
It's really really hard to get a slot, to win the lottery to really run the marathon they wish to.
And it's not only because that there are not well, there are.
The passion for running a marathon is exploding, meaning more people are competing for it, but at the same time, we are looking at professional ticket buyers getting the ticket and scalpers scalpers selling it for a really high price, and that has happened to marathon races as well.
And all these kind of troubles and problems in the industry.
With the industry growing rapidly, these problems seem to be too big to be negligible.
Selling them, scalping them to runners or scalping to runners?
So they would enter into the lottery to see if they could win a ticket with no, no plan to run in that race at all.
They're simply going to sell that to a professional runner or someone who's in it.
I mean, it kind of makes sense.
And we talk about this a lot.
Whenever there's an explosion in popularity of anything, well then it's hard to kind of catch up with the planning and safety part of things, at least in the very beginning.
You said it yourself 7 million participants, over 700, almost 750 races compared to 390000 just three years ago.
So you have all of this interest in running and marathons and the organizers are suddenly seemingly overwhelmed.
And because they're overwhelmed.
The view is from many people who are participating that the organization isn't where it needs to be, and now there are policies in place to make sure that the organization is where it needs to be.
Yes, and with more and more of these races happening nationwide, of course, the majority of the organizers are quite also passionate about putting up a good show, allowing people to enjoy the race, but there are some people who are thinking about hmm, I want to bring in some international faces to make the game look, And that leads to also professional runners coming into the Chinese market just to win the prize of I don't know first runner and second ones.
And now, according to the new regulation, it is not allowed to do so that easily.
You have to live up to a certain standard to compete.
Invite international runners to the Chinese Games.
There are a lot of benefits to organize a marathon event in one's own city.
A large city marathon race can generate 600 million to 700 million yuan in economic activity.
For instance, the Wuxi Marathon generated 505 million yuan in economic benefits.
That's a historical high, and it was also demonstrating a 78 increase over the previous season.
And in Wuhan, the marathon generated nearly 300 million yuan in economic benefits.
So to think about also the other benefits, for instance the elevation in the reputation of the city which is able to host such an event, and also There are nationally 10 international gold level or higher marathons in 2024.
And for an event to qualify as a gold label.
There are many standards they have to meet and it's very strict.
You will have to have professional athletes coming from outside of the country.
You will need to have officially measured and certified courses.
You will also need to have, this is a mandatory to my surprise, I found this to my surprise.
You are supposed to have international TV or streaming broadcast over the event.
That's mandatory.
Mandatory.
If you don't have that, then sorry, you don't get the certification as a gold level event.
So the reputation, the prestige and the economic benefits really attract a lot of organizers across the country to try and start their own events.
But then not everyone is qualified.
Not everyone is professional enough to organize an event, especially when they seek to incorporate not only professional runners but as well as mass participation just regular guy like me who doesn't know how to run.
Don't don't sign up for it, please.
But some people do that, right?
I mean, not maybe not the full marathons, but some of the smaller runs for sure.
But that's it.
That's the incentive.
600 million to 700 million yuan.
That's about 85 million to 100 million dollars in economic activity.
That's the money that comes into a city when they put on a marathon race.
Now, not every city is putting on a major marathon, but you can see why other smaller cities might see this economic activity, the boom in the hotel industry, the outside of the money that's brought in for the race, and then think huh, maybe we should do something like that too.
Have we done it before?
No.
Do we really know how to do it?
Well, not really, but I mean, I'm sure we can put something together.
My point is you can see why the interest is coming from these other places to put on these types of events.
Yes, and with the new regulation, with these 11 articles there, you kind of at least have a clue of what you should be preparing for.
You should make sure that your race does not interfere with the proper and regular management of the city.
You should make sure that medical team is there.
You should make sure the...
Portable bathrooms are there.
Enough of those are there.
Talking about Liming's earlier anecdotes.
I wasn't part of it.
I saw stories about that.
Not my fault.
Yes.
And now, one thing that I particularly find interesting, quite encouraging, is that the new regulation mandate requires that the mass, let's say runners, should not be less than 90 of the game, meaning that more and more enthusiasts would be able to take part in and have fun with the race.
And now here is the catch, because in the new regulation there is one article saying that Yes, it is encouraged to have the family run the fun run, the healthy run, which is usually 5K or 10K, not 40K.
42k and it is encouraged to have these races, but they should not be included in a marathon race anymore, so you do them separately.
Now people have different reactions to it.
For those who cannot really finish a full marathon or half marathon, they wanted to be part of a marathon even if they're only running the 5k.
But for the professional athletes, they find you know the, the Proper sorting of different types of games would provide them with a better environment, would have them enjoy the race a bit more.
What do you think?
If I were a professional runner seeking to take part in one of these marathons, especially high-level or so-called gold-label events, I would prefer yes, I would prefer to be separated from mass participation because, as a professional runner, I would think that if I will be able to beat the record, if I will achieve my personal high or something, if I will end up earning the credits that I need for me to progress in my career, I surely don't want to worry about if the guy in front of me will trip over himself and I will trip over him, and also whether the competition or the event is organized and managed professionally, whether the results are fair, whether the pacers are doing what they do other than providing misleading information.
I feel like I'm on the right path, but then the information is not necessarily correct.
A friend of a friend of mine from korea.
He's a pro runner and he most recently i think in his career went to the boston marathon and he traveled from korea to boston in the united states.
That's a huge commitment to run in that marathon.
It's much more than that.
I mean, he spent years training.
His whole life is basically centered around his training for these marathons.
So I agree with you.
You know, when you have people who take this really, really seriously, to have them next to um, people who are just like Hey, let's go riding this weekend.
You know, it's, it's not only for safety reasons, but it's just annoying, right.
To be next, to be next to somebody with that accent.
Yeah.
Yes.
Girl from Los Angeles apparently wanted to sign up.
Um, but yeah, that's part of the reason safety reasons um heatstroke falling down even in large crowds.
We haven't mentioned that yet.
Crowd control is one of the things that they're looking at here too.
Medical support, making sure that they have the proper medical teams on hand to deal with any of the things that might go wrong.
And then There's been criticism about rule violations or underage runners.
Again, you mentioned it, I think, Lightning, unqualified pacers.
Pacers are the people who are out front setting the pace for the other runners so that they know at which speed they should be traveling.
It's kind of like a gauge of sorts.
And then another criticism was unsuitable refreshments as well.
So there's been some negative feedback, and they just want to clean it up a bit.
And not to mention professional competitions.
Sometimes, let me drop sometimes professional competitions.
They absolutely have to have anti-doping competence.
If a small county that scarcely has any professionals in this regard, then I don't think they are qualified to have an event like that.
Yes, and in 2022, we mentioned, about 7 million people took part in road races across China, with 472 million officially certified events, but only 345000 actually completed a full marathon.
China has over 380 million running enthusiasts, but almost all well, most of them still stick to the 5K and 10K distances.
And this differentiating between full marathons or fun runs and family runs, and especially I don't remember if we specifically talked about this on Roundtable, perhaps we have is that there are some marathons provide snacks local specialty snacks along the way.
So when you're running the 5K, instead of running, you're basically eating all along.
Was it Harbin?
Don't quote me on that.
I think it was hard.
The harbin marathon.
It was sure for fun but you know, for professional runners really, they had like a little like local specialty buffet almost set up as in terms of refreshments.
I i might be wrong about harbin, but anyway it was somewhere around the country.
I would prefer, as a professional runner, To take part in the event where I don't need to worry about if I'll fail my next anti-doping test.
Ah, yes.
That would be a concern as well.
You mentioned the popularity of those fun runs.
That's part of I was reading part of the reason, if not one of the main reasons, for the explosion in popularity.
It's not like China has suddenly become a country of pro-marathon runners, right?
It has become a country where yeah, pro runners exist, for sure, but a lot of people just got into it as a hobby, something to do for fun, something where they can go out and enjoy the atmosphere and enjoy a little bit of exercise and maybe do it with a friend or family members, or something like that.
And part of the problem here is that when these issues are being criticized at these marathons is that it kind of paints the marathons in a bit of a negative light, fair or unfair.
But it also paints the sport or the hobby of running in a bit of a negative light.
Imagine you sign up with your family to go out and do a fun run and you get there and it's poorly organized.
There are safety issues, there aren't proper medical teams blah blah, blah the things we've been talking about.
Then you might think, let's not do this as a family anymore.
Let's kind of find a new hobby.
So putting these new measures in place.
You might seem it, it may seem strict, but I deem it necessary.
It is because if we are putting the professional kind of races in different cities, there are a lot of things to consider.
For example, you have to make sure that you're not occupying the main avenue of the city for too long.
It should be controlled within four to six hours.
You should make sure there are more subways or more buses routes, shifts of those things happening in that day, so that After running a marathon you do not have to run home as well.
And also there would be a 72 hour post or pre 72 hour notification of the situation or of the kind of current situation, traffic quarantine or traffic control related information put up in the city's management apps.
And also, instead of using the entire city as your running track, we are using some of the districts so that the management of the city would not be affected too much.
And one good example we see is the Beijing Marathon.
The Beijing Marathon has had a good reputation for a Yeah, where do they do that?
This year it happened in November the 2nd, which is two or three days after the releasing of the new regulation, and it took place
The course is from Tiananmen Square to the Bird's Nest.
And if you think about it, it's a really good course and really good route.
It's the central axis.
Yeah, just straight north.
Yes, and for this year... they added 2,000 more runners.
It sounds fine on paper, but if you really think about it, they gathered together and they started running and there are so many different posts.
And then at the ending, so it is definitely it requires a bit more management and a bit more support.
But Beijing Marathon did a really good job this year.
They put up a lot of different services to handle the added load.
The races service team also scaled up this year more than 6800 volunteers were recruited, including 220 trained capital civilization guides.
These people would make sure that people you know behave themselves, no matter the runners or the observers.
And for perspective, the 2024 Berlin Marathon had around 6,500 volunteers supporting 58,000 runners.
And we see organizers also made detailed upgrades to the event experience.
The number of finish line supply lanes increased from 15 to 20, the gear pickup area expanded by 15000 square meters and also the number of tents rose from 150 to 162.
And all these expansion, all these further support and, of course, the 610 medical observers, 74 AED responders, 100 doctor runners that's a lot of support And a lot of doctors running.
And they are there to ensure the safety and healthiness of the runners.
It's a good idea.
And if you're worried after listening to us discuss this oh, does that mean that these fun runs are going to disappear forever?
No, that's not true at all.
These types of activities, these mass participation activities, they'll still be held, but they'll be held perhaps independently, moving forward.
And the professional events.
I couldn't imagine them to be further consolidated going forward because we just mentioned how fast it was able to pick up and grow to this scale over the past decade.
But then I should say, I believe the industry is big enough for certain bigger players to emerge.
So I could see professional event planners emerging, really developing out of this new change of regulations.
I'd like to do one of those 5K ones.
I think that would be a lot of fun.
Never in my life will I be ready for a marathon.
I think maybe I could handle five kilometers.
Yes, and especially those that have snacks along the way.
I can try those too.
China's marathon scene may have hit a speed bump.
But perhaps it's less a stop sign and more of a reset button.
The next race won't just be about how far or how fast.
It'll be about how well the country can balance regulation with passion and competition with care.
