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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeart Radio.
Good morning. This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one. and part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days to awesome in any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I'm delighted to welcome Jean Jungshir to the show.
She is an ordained Buddhist nun who is also a graduate student.
So, Dean Jungshir, welcome to the show. Thank you, Laura.
I'm excited to be here. So excited to have you here.
Yeah. Well, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Okay. I am a bhikshuni. I'm ordained in the Mahayana Buddhist tradition. and currently I'm going into my second year of graduate school.
Very exciting. Yeah. And you had a different life before entering a monastery, correct?
Yes. For over a decade, I sold tea, wholesale teas.
And yeah, good sales and marketing and PR.
Sales and marketing. Yes. Yeah. And so what led to this pretty big career change?
I think that from the time I was a teenager, I was always deeply interested in Buddhism.
And for a long time, I attended the monastery and winter retreats and retreats. was very kind of like active in the monastery But then there was a point where I realized that I wanted to be more serious.
And I realized that I actually had the potential to pursue the monastic life.
And I saw the way kind of open up in front of me.
And I decided to go for it. That's wonderful.
Yeah, I mean, it was a big process though, right?
It took multiple years. Yes, and you've been with me for many of them.
I've enjoyed hearing about your process for sure, because I think people don't understand like what.
You had to learn a lot. You had to learn a lot of new knowledge.
And so it was a fairly intense training.
So can you talk a little bit about what was involved in the ordination process?
Certainly. So I actually began my training in 2017.
And I started living in the monastery then, and...
When I lived in the monastery, I also kind of worked a full monastery schedule and attended about six hours of ceremonies and other events in the Buddha Hall and was just more involved in the community.
And then I... became a novice in 2019 and then my schedule got even more hectic.
And I was like, oh my goodness, how do I do this?
And that's when I came across your book, 168 Hours.
And I was like, oh, this is actually really helpful because I had no idea how I was going to get it all done. and nothing would fit into 24 hours.
And then when I started looking at things through the space of a week, I was able to start fitting everything in.
Well, because, I mean, the daily schedule, you mentioned like six hours of ceremony is Can you maybe talk about what a daily schedule looks like at the monastery so people understand sort of how much you were talking about is trying to be in 24 hours.
Okay, so in our monastery, we're... maybe more strict than other Buddhist monasteries.
And we have a very traditional, very rigorous schedule.
Monastics and permanent residents who live in the monastery usually wake up around 3.30 a.m.
And then we go to ceremony from 4 to 5 a.m.
And then there's another ceremony after that universal bowing, which lasts from five to six.
And then many people participate in suture recitation from seven to eight.
And then we have our work period from about 8 to 10.30 a.m. which people have many different jobs around the monasteries.
And then we have another small ceremony before lunch.
10.30 to 11 a.m., And then in our tradition, monks and nuns only eat one meal a day.
So we have our main meal of the day. between about 11 a.m. and 12 p.m.
And then there's another ceremony, a great compassion repentance from 1 p.m. to about 2.15 p.m.
And then there's another work period from 2.15 p.m. till about 5 p.m.
And then we have free time from 5 p.m. till about 6.15 p.m.
And then we get ready to go to evening ceremony. the monastics will usually line up in what we call a pibon.
And then we will walk to the Buddha Hall and be there by 6.30 p.m.
And then we have evening ceremony from 630 p.m. to 730 p.m. and then evening lecture from 7.30 p.m. to 9 p.m. another small ceremony from 9pm to 9.30pm.
And then we have you know, our own time until we wake up at 3.30 a.m., As I say, do you ever get used to waking up at 3.30 a.m.?
I mean, even if one is a morning person, that's pretty early.
It is pretty early. How used to, you know, some days it feels fine and I'm very happy to wake up.
And if you have a lot on your plate, I find particularly as like a graduate student, student, it's much more talented because your brain is more full of things.
So there are monks and nuns in our tradition whose sole focus is on attending the ceremonies and being present in the Buddha hall.
And for them, I think it's rather enjoyable.
Like they really enjoy that. But when you add on like responsibilities of being a student or teaching or other administrative activities, It could feel more challenging.
Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, if the last ceremony is at nine, there's not a whole lot of sleeping time in there.
No, there's less than six hours. I think there's exactly six hours between 9.30 p.m.
And 3.30 AM. And I need a little like downtime to like unpack and get ready for the next day.
So usually I run on like five, four and a half, five hours of sleep.
Yeah. But then do you sometimes nap at other points to try to catch up a little bit?
I'm going to have to confess, but occasionally I do.
Yeah. Yeah. Usually for like 30 minutes.
Um, probably not every day, but on more rigorous days, especially in that five to 6 PM period. that's a good time to catch a quick nap before going into the next cycle.
Yeah, but it certainly sounds... I mean, given that so much of the day is spoken for, and then you also have... classes, for instance, I think you kind of have to make your piece of of looking at the whole week and saying, well, I can't be at absolutely every single ceremony I can aim to be at. a certain number of them.
Is that how you manage this? That's where I am as a graduate student because...
I'm going into my second year of graduate school.
And I'm taking a couple of extra classes because I'm learning Chinese.
So I'm taking extra languages this year.
And I'm also very interested in writing a book for young adults and children.
And I also need time for that. So basically I... told my Dharma sisters, I can make this many ceremonies during the week while I'm doing this semester.
And, you know, these are my classes. People know where I am and what I'm up to, but it's still very full.
Yeah, it sounds like it. Sounds like a very school schedule.
All right, well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Gene Juncture.
Hey listeners, today's tip is powered by National University.
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I am back talking with Jean Juncture, who is an ordained Buddhist nun.
She is also a graduate student. We've been hearing about the intense schedule of life in the monastery, which we then need to layer your classes on top of, layer your studying on top of?
I mean, when do you actually wind up doing doing your studying?
So because I'm a graduate student right now, my work schedule has been adjusted and I have basically committed to trying to do most of the morning ceremonies and the evening ceremonies.
But the afternoon ceremony, the Great Compassion Repentance, I do. far less frequently.
I'm more like once a week, once every other week.
Because those periods during the day are my costs. study time.
So basically, I try to fit all of my classes and study time in the morning and the afternoon period.
Now, backing up a little bit to when you were going through the ordination process, one of the things we began... going back and forth by email about a couple of years ago. is that you had to do a lot of memorization as part of your training.
Can you talk a little bit about what that Oh, my goodness.
Yes. So that was a big part of the full ordination process. is that in our tradition, we memorize three sets of precepts.
And we're supposed to recite them from memory before we fully ordain.
And so... these are basically three books and they take a long time to memorize.
And before I had I started this process, I don't think I had ever memorized anything longer than a poem, you know, something very short for, like, high school or... something like that so it was And I had no idea how to go about doing this.
And I had to schedule it. I had to very kind of like meticulously go line by line And then to add to do it, I had to like break up the text into pieces.
And then basically I would, You know, if you sit still, you can memorize maybe a sentence of text, right?
And then if you repeat it to yourself throughout the day, you might be able to remember it later during the day.
But because the books were so long... I had to figure out a way to do this without kind of losing it in the process.
And so I started reading all of these books on like different memorization techniques and You know, some people know about memory palaces So I started trying to figure out like different methods to kind of like hold these things in my mind.
And what it required was a lot of time. And time was something that I felt very short on.
And so I had to really map out in the schedule and then my mind during that time period was basically only focused on memorization.
I was doing my activities, but the only thing that was happening in my mind was the memorization.
Yeah, and you just realized it was just going to take time, right?
I mean, that's the thing. You have to get your head around the idea that you can only memorize a certain amount of time, a certain amount of the precepts in any given day or any given week.
And so it's just going to be years until you can get them all into your head, correct?
It took me a long time to wrap my mind around that because how often do we sit down and think, oh, I'm going to spend a year memorizing this. book or two or three years, you know, as the case may be.
And this is something that we don't really have like in our Western culture, you know. the only people who I think memorized lines are like actors, you know?
It's not very common for ordinary people.
And what it took me a long time to realize is that it was really a factor of dedication and not intelligence.
And I thought, oh, I'm a very smart person.
I'll be able to do this very fast. And then I realized, no, this is more like exercise. then it is about intelligence.
It's about having enough stamina to get through it.
And you just kept going for several years then, right?
But clearly did it, as you are now officially ordained?
Yes. Yes, thank you. So how was how did that feel when you finally did your your your formal recitation as part of it?
It felt great. And for me, you know, it was... like a dream realized after, you know, From the start of the training was 2017 to the platform was 2023.
So that was like six years of actual training.
But I started this path in probably 2013. kind of moving in this direction.
So it was like the work of a decade. But you did it, which is very exciting.
And then... You mentioned that all of your mental energy had been devoted to memorization.
And then you did it. And I know that the nuns recite these precepts frequently as part of your ceremonies, but still. you weren't actively memorizing anymore.
So what did you do with that brain space then?
Okay, so once I wasn't actively memorizing things, I got my first assignment in the monastery as a fully ordained nun.
And they asked me to teach classes. And so I began teaching and I had volunteered taught before. but I had not been volunteered teaching them several years, and they gave me six classes to teach.
So that was my first year as a fully ordained nun was teaching elementary and high school students. for over six hours a day.
And then after that, I applied to go to graduate school and was accepted. and began this journey.
Yeah. So now you're filling your brain with learning Chinese and...
Hermeneutics, right? That was on your class schedule, I believe.
Exactly. I'm getting a master's in Buddhist classics from Dharma Realm Buddhist University.
And as you said earlier this year, my whole year has basically been Heidegger, Chinese, and dragons.
What a combination. I love it. Because The Dragons is your novel, right?
You're writing about, for young adults, a Buddhist-themed novel.
There may be dragons in it because you know, I really enjoy dragons.
But I think that there are a lot of exciting themes in Buddhist texts.
And what I found is that we have books for very young children.
And then we have books for adults, but we have nothing for kind of the middle years.
And as I taught students, in 2023, 2024, I really saw this gap And I saw certain students that I really wanted to reach out to and get them enthusiastic about some of these text, but I felt like if there was no bridge, there would be no way for them to enter them as adults.
So you're going to write the book that's going to bring them in?
I hope that I'm going to write the book that's going to be the bridge.
And I've actually signed up for a six-week writing course with a woman who has been publishing young adult books. who is also a professor at the local college in our area.
So I'm very excited about that. We've got a plan to make it happen.
All right. Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Gene Juncture.
Hey listeners, today's tip is powered by National University.
You know my goal is to help you make the most of your day. without sacrificing work or family time.
That's why I'm so happy to introduce an institution that shares the same values.
If you are thinking about going back to school, you're probably wondering how to fit it all in.
National's flexible online formats, four- and eight-week courses, and monthly class starts help you begin your degree sooner, finish faster, and do it all on your own schedule. so you have more options for managing work, family, and school.
With over 150 degrees, credentials, and certificates to choose from, They have a program that fits your career goals.
Learn more today at nu.edu. This Labor Day, say goodbye to spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with washablesofas.com featuring Anabay, the only machine washable sofa inside and out. where designer quality meets budget-friendly pricing.
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You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing, and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time.
With modular pieces, you can rearrange anytime.
It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through Labor Day, get up to 60% off site-wide at washablesofas.com.
Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.
If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund.
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Shop now at washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
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I am back talking with Jean Jungscher, who is an ordained Buddhist nun, a graduate student.
We've been talking about her various ways of managing the schedule and all that she is had to do as part of the ordination process and then later teaching and being a student.
So you've just been working on your schedule for the fall semester, I understand, when we're having this conversation.
Maybe you can talk about your process of how you create a schedule for yourself, knowing what you know about it. you know, how you work and your responsibilities and all that you're trying to accomplish.
Okay, well, I actually use the spreadsheet that you send out in the time tracking challenge every year.
And I do it in 15 minute increments. And so I start by putting the morning and the evening ceremonies in. because those kind of bookend the day for me.
And it's also a good way to connect with the other monastics in the monastery.
And then I put in all the classes because the ceremonies and the classes are fantastic. you know, very important.
And I'm taking extra classes this semester so I can continue to improve my Chinese.
And I added in one fun class, which was quilting.
There's a not for credit quilting class and my grandmothers were wonderful quilters, but I never learned.
So I'm taking that as a side thing. So I put the classes in, and then I figure that I need roughly... two to three hours of study time, writing time for every hour that I'm in class.
And so I tried to map out my study time so that I had at least two or three study times for each class, one directly before the class, one after the class, and one in the middle.
And so it took me like two days to kind of map this all out, but then I feel really good I have a plan for the semester.
And then if special things come up, It's just about moving things around a little bit, but it's not a blank space.
Now I know where I'm going for the next few months.
Yeah, and building in time to study, like knowing that that has to happen And you're not just trusting that it will happen.
You're like, if it's important to me, it needs a space on the calendar, correct?
Yes. And I think as an undergraduate, when I had endless optimism from 18 to 22 years old, There were a lot of things that I tried to like fit in at the last minute I thought, oh, this will only take two hours, but it ended up taking six hours and then throwing like the next day off.
And I think as an adult, I'm 45 now, I'm very aware that things take more time than you think they will.
And if you leave more space, then you won't be panicked.
You'll feel much more confident. Yeah. And it sounds like you've been doing quite well in school.
I hear you have a very high GPA. Not too bad.
My first year was 3.8. Yeah, so I'm very pleased with that.
Well, it's so hard to go back to school as an adult.
Like you said, I mean, this is... I guess the upside is you have the benefit of wisdom and experience.
But... You know, it's been a long time since you did this the first time around, right?
Yes. You know, I'm 45 now and I went to, I did my undergrad when I was 18 to 22.
So coming back to school and writing papers, formal academic papers after 23 years. was a real challenge because I had done little bits of writing, you know, like press releases or marketing copy or, little things like that.
But it had been a really long time since I had written a 15, 20 plus page paper. and finding good sources for that and being able to write it skillfully is a challenge that I'm still working on.
But I love writing and will hopefully continue to improve.
I love it. Well, like with anything, it's more dedication than it is I think that's one of the things we realize as grownups.
I think that I completely agree with that.
And that's something I have really realized as an adult that I did not know when I was younger.
I thought it was all about you know, how smart you were, but so much of what happens in life is about dedication. and wisely spending your time.
Absolutely. Well, I agree with that for sure.
So I always ask people, what is something you have done recently?
To take a day from great to awesome. So something that has made a normal day better.
Okay. I made a resolution at the beginning of this year that I told you about that I'm very pleased with.
And because I have so much kind of work and classes and Also ceremonies, I felt like I wasn't having that much human connection with people.
So one of my goals was to schedule 50 walks a week, 50 walks a year.
And so I've been taking walks with people And instead of having a meeting with them or, you know, doing zoom, If they're in the local area, I just schedule a 15 to 30-minute walk.
And sometimes those walks go for an hour.
But I had some great conversations on my walks.
And then I also get outside and We live in a very beautiful valley surrounded by mountains.
So I feel like I'm getting nature, exercise, and human connection.
So I love scheduling walks with people. I love it.
That's a lot of awesomeness for one activity.
And what are you looking forward to right now?
I'm so excited to work on the book, the book for children and young adults.
And I'm very excited for the writing workshop, which I'll be doing August and October.
And I'm also looking forward to what comes next.
And after graduate school, it feels like possibilities will open up again.
You know, will I focus on writing? Will I focus on I'm working on some compilations of Dharma Talks.
I do a lot of editing for our magazine and other publications.
And will I teach again? So I'm sitting with all of these possibilities.
And seeing what comes of it. I love it. Yeah.
Absolutely. Well, G-Structure, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me. at laura at lauravandercam.com in the meantime this is laura Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas or feedback You can reach me at Laura at LauraVanderkam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of I Heart Media.
For more podcasts from I Heart Media, please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey listeners, today's tip is powered by National University.
Before breakfast, you know my goal is to help you make the most of your day. without sacrificing work or family time.
That's why I'm so happy to introduce an institution that shares the same values.
If you are thinking about going back to school, you're probably wondering how to fit it all in.
National's flexible online formats, four- and eight-week courses, and monthly class starts help you begin your degree sooner, finish faster, and do it all on your own schedule. so you have more options for managing work, family, and school.
With over 150 degrees, credentials, and certificates to choose from, They have a program that fits your career goals.
Learn more today at nu.edu. Every business has an ambition.
PayPal Open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours. with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. and your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, pay later, and all major cards, so you can focus on scaling up.
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