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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello, everybody, welcome back to the show.
Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world.
Today we have an incredibly special episode.
I've invited on two of my friends who run their own podcast to Broke Chicks to discuss relationships.
I think on this show, as someone who is single, we only really talk about the beginnings and the dating or the breakup.
But today we're going to talk about something a little bit more nuanced, which is how our relationships, particularly our romantic relationships in our twenties, interact with our identity and how to maintain our identities in a relationship.
So welcome Sal and Al.
How are you both going?
I'm excited. I'm so excited.
We are so happy to be here.
We're big fans of Jem and this show.
So it's just a match made in heaven.
Also, Jem, you have such a beautiful voice.
I like was getting hypnotised almost there in the intro.
Thank you. Now I'm feeling something else.
A little ASMR episode for everyone.
We're probably like a really harsh difference for everyone.
Well, I think they need that.
Also, I love when people from Australia come on the show because a lot of the time I have people from the US or the UK.
So now they can hear three Australian answers.
Yeah, you're glad again.
Hey, yeah. Come on, we won't talk about life.
Took my Sheila to the pub the other day and got her a beer and now we're dating.
Got her a shmitty and I said, do you want to be my girl?
Now she's my missus.
Yeah, the missus. The missus.
Yeah, we have a trademark term on our show called The Horny Sheila.
It's us. That's the energy that we project.
Well, I love that. And thank you for bringing that energy to the show today.
So the thing that was really interesting to me when I was thinking about this topic is that we are all in very different stages of the relationship spectrum.
So I am single as a Pringle, except for I just get a damn from a certain someone.
So I'm a bit of a smitten kitten.
Not gonna lie. You're so cute.
Thanks, guys. Yeah, but we all know how good that message is.
When you have that crush or you like someone and then they send you a message and you're like, you literally just float for the rest of the day.
It really is. I've been floating for the last 10 minutes.
So basically, I'm almost in a new relationship.
I'm actually thinking a spring wedding, not native floral arrangements.
Yes, of course. So anyhow, no, I'm very single, have been for over a year.
But I did start this podcast after a pretty serious breakup.
So that's where this whole concept came from.
You've recently entered into a new relationship.
So I was single for about three years before that I was in relationships for about five years.
And then, yeah, I think what I felt was that I was very attached to the identity that I got back in that three years of being single.
And the effort that I had to put into rebuilding that identity, and we can get into a bit later, but how I felt like I lost my identity in those earlier relationships.
And then the effort that it took to feel like me again, really kind of deterred me from getting into a relationship that I was like, I don't need anyone.
I got in that headspace of I don't need anyone.
I'm so happy being single, so good doing me.
And I would date, and then I would have moments of being like, do I want a relationship?
And then I met my now partner and I was like, oh, shit, he's a really good one.
And I was like, yeah, I like you.
And so then now I'm kind of like in that phase that we've been dating for about nine months now.
So it's still quite early, but I think we've gone through that like honeymoon period.
And it's just really nice, but also how do I navigate from being so independent and single to being like the most perfect relationship ever?
It's like a very steady relationship, even though it is so new, relatively new.
I'm like, and also I'm the queen of self -sabotage sometimes.
So like, there'd be moments I can't be talking to sound.
She'd be like, shut up.
She'd be like, you don't need to do this.
I literally would say you were trying to ruin this.
Like you were self -sabotaging right now in this moment.
Stop it. You need a friend like that sometimes.
And that's because Sal is guru.
A guru. Yeah. I've been in a relationship with my partner, Chris for almost 15 years.
So it'll be 15 years in August.
She's a veteran. And how did you meet him?
We met on MySpace. On MySpace?
Yes, literally. So we were both like two little emos when we were teenagers slash I never grew out of it.
It was never a phase mom.
But we met through mutual friends from going to gigs and whatnot.
But he added me on MySpace, and that's how we actually met.
And then we just hung out from there.
Wow. That's a beautiful story.
Two little emo kids meet on MySpace.
That's a good one to tell.
And I think that it's very interesting that we're all sitting here with different perspectives to discuss what we really want to discuss today, which is how do you maintain your identity in a relationship?
Because our romantic relationships are a massive facet of our lives, particularly in our 20s.
Within every period, I think that this is the time when a lot of us start to contemplate the idea of a life partner.
We start to date around, we start to have standards, and most of us are in.
Start testing. Start being the operative word.
Right, fine. Yeah, well that's my, honestly, I feel like that's my experience where I've hit my mid -20s and I'm like, all righty, so early mid -20s and been like, okay, now dating is still fun, but it's not something that I'm doing impulsively because I now understand that the person I'm with is going
to create a large part of how I see myself and how I see my life and my future plans.
How did you think that transition for you was out?
Because you came from where I am now, from a place of almost hyper -independence, it sounds like, and then suddenly had to adapt to having this other person in your life.
And you said there was a bit of self -sabotage going on?
I think so. Yeah, I think I, so when I entered my single -girl era, I was definitely not independent.
I definitely relied on my relationships to kind of keep me entertained, I pulled a lot of worth from them in terms of myself because my first relationship, I was independent, but that person relied on me a lot.
I was that person's universe and that was a lot of pressure.
My second relationship, I went to the other end of the spectrum that I was like, I want someone who doesn't even shit about me, that just has their own life.
And then that was, and then it was the other end of the spectrum.
I was like, wait, no, love me.
So then I kind of had this tug of war internally of not really knowing what I wanted or who I was because I kind of moulded myself to these people and what they needed or what they didn't give me.
And so then when I was single, I really had to kind of go back and figure out who I was, what I wanted and what I enjoyed just by myself.
First things first, I don't think you can know who your identity is in a relationship until you understand who that identity is.
As Lord and Savior RuPaul says, if you don't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love somebody else?
And I didn't love myself.
I didn't have that.
And it took a really long time to build that up.
And your friends is a really big part of that.
Having being able to be comfortable on your own is a really big part of that.
And in those three years, I had so much fun, like the best time.
And kind of what you were saying before, that for a good chunk of that time, it was dating for the story.
It was dating for fun and just living life and realizing things, as Kylie Jenner said in 2016.
Wow, flashback. She has her sources.
She has her references in 2016 at all.
You can check that.
Actually, I saw the video the other day and that is the year.
And in that time, I experienced so many new things.
I like literally changed my sexuality in that time.
Like I experimented with girls and realized that, hey, do you know what, it's probably a bit weird to continue scissoring your Barbies at 16 years old.
But I'm just kidding.
I wasn't doing that.
But I would always kind of feel like that, be like, oh, like, do I like girls?
I was like, I don't know.
I could kiss them. And I'm like, you're gay.
You're trying to convince yourself.
And then you finally gave yourself the freedom to be like, let me embrace this with no label.
And so then I think when I got to the point that I was like, okay, this is me, I know what my identity is, because it's so hard if you don't know what that is, to not mold yourself to the person that you start dating and you start molding yourself to their likes and their dislikes.
And it's so important to keep your likes and dislikes, even if that's not compatible to the other person.
So I think what was different about this relationship that I'm in now was that I had the confidence to just be myself.
I had the confidence to be like, well, if you don't like it, that's fine.
Because I like me and you don't want to date someone that doesn't like you.
Like there's so often, I once had a boyfriend turn around to me and say, yeah, I love you.
Just sometimes I don't like you.
And I laughed, like I thought it was funny.
And now I look back and I'm like, that was really mean.
That was cool. I don't know how we're having this conversation yesterday about how that is a real trope in relationships.
Like guys being like, oh, like we've got the, I'm out with the boys like free of the ball on chain or like people speak about their partners like that.
And it's like, no, you should actually like each other and there should be joy there.
And you should want to spend time with them.
It's weird. That is so weird to me.
And I think that it's honestly a hard thing to learn your own worth, especially having been through experiences like that.
Like I know that I have as well.
This person that I dated like probably two years ago, I became a completely different person for them.
I sacrificed friendships for that person and I regret it all the time.
Like I still, to this day, I don't think about him much except for the choices that I would definitely not make again.
And it's interesting because then recently I had a very similar incident, incident, like a very similar experience with someone where they, the exact same situation happened.
And I remember sitting there and being like, I have two choices here.
Do I do the thing that I've done before?
Do I make that mistake again?
Or I've learned this lesson.
Let's go the other way.
And I went the other way.
And I think that that's a big part of how relationships can also form you as they teach you these important lessons that then you can take to not just your next relationship, but your friendships and your morals and your values.
Um, I do want to quickly ask you a question because I'm, I'm fascinated by this.
I don't like, I genuinely am because I imagined the person I was dating when I was like in my teen years and I saw this TikTok the other day and it was like, would you rather still be working your first job or would you rather still be with the person you were dating when you were 17?
Oh my God. Right. I said, I totally was like, boost juice.
I'm coming back, but I'm making those mango magics for the rest of my life.
Taylor's patisserie.
Give me those cinnamon donuts again.
Yeah. Those both sound like great choices.
Also boost juice. Amazing.
Oh, can I get a tropical crush and then go magic, please?
Oh my goodness. No, no, I'm out of office.
But I guess the question is, what has that been like for you?
And I know that you've gotten a lot of, um, sometimes people have said to you, like, don't you wish you had tried a few more, try before you buy or try a few more people are like gone out there and had that single girl era that you were just talking about out and what would be your response to that?
So I think at first I really did question if that was something that I should be doing and was like, Oh, like, am I, I was, I've always been happy in my relationship, but questions like that made me wonder if, is it just because this is all I've known?
Do I need to go out and explore something else?
But I think the response that I give people now is that over the last 15 years, there's never been one time where I've interacted with anyone that made me even question my relationship or tempted me.
Excuse me, I'm sitting right here.
Aside from you, Al.
You're, you're the one thing ally.
But yeah, just like, I just try to listen to my gut and like what I want to do.
I'm the sort of person that if you tell me to do something, I'll probably just do the exact opposite out of spite.
So I, yeah, I don't know.
I was like, what? And be like you guys?
Like it doesn't really seem like any of my friends were having heaps of fun during that.
Oh, we were not. We are not.
Well, I'm not you guys, specifically.
I'm in the people that were asking me this question because a lot of the time when that's getting projected on you, I think it is maybe coming from a place of insecurity in some instances being like, yeah, but don't you want to be single?
Because that might be a little bit of more of them reaching for a bit of comfortability being like, yeah, but it's good to be single.
It's good. Like I'm enjoying this.
So that reassurance that is like, oh, but I'm, I'm good for being in this position that maybe looking at someone, it is when you are single, you look at people in relationships and sometimes you are like, Oh, thank God, I'm not in a relationship.
Like you can do all this fun stuff.
I can do whatever I want to do.
And then sometimes you are like, that would be nice.
And I think what is so, the way that you and Chris and like, well, I feel like I've learned from you guys as well now in a new relationship is that you only have so much energy to give in life and that's got to be split across work, friends, your own time, your hobbies, and then you add a partner into
that. And so you've only got like 100 % of a tank.
So if you're splitting that, you know, 25 % against across like work, friends, your own time, and then your hobbies, you've then got to take that time away from something.
And because you need to obviously invest time in a relationship, but what can often happen is people pull all of that 25 % that's split across everything and they put 100 % into that relationship.
And that's a mistake that I'd made in the past.
And that's something that I've never seen you do, Sal.
And like the way that it's been so important and it's an effort to do because when you do meet someone that you really like and you do enter that relationship, you are the most smitten kitten.
You're like, I'm obsessed with this person.
I want to smell their neck every day.
Like literally I'm like, oh, that's good stuff.
Oh my God. And like you are obsessed with them.
And that's so good.
Keep that. But be obsessed with them in like moderation.
Have nights away from each other.
Have those moments that like you allow yourselves to miss each other a little bit.
And it's so important that you don't pull all the reserve energy in other tanks and put it into that one because what happens if that doesn't work out?
No, but I was just saying like, I think as well communicating and holding down the fort on your wants, your enjoyments, on what you had when you were single is really important.
Like we talk about this all the time on Two Broke Chicks, but I love a Smutty Fairy book.
Like it's just my happy place in my little fantasy land with two enemies to lovers.
And it's just the best trope ever.
And like we went on holidays and maybe like two or three hours of the day, we'd just go and do our own thing.
Like we weren't spending the whole day together because I'd want to go read my book for like an hour or maybe go for a walk.
Or he'd want to go like do something.
I don't know what boys do in their own time.
He's like a big YouTube watcher.
So he would like just want to go watch YouTube and just like turn off for a bit like that.
And we would just go spend time on our own doing our own wants.
Or whenever there's a thing like, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm going to go stay at South.
He's just like, okay.
It's never like, oh, but I'm going to miss you so much.
Don't go. Or if we do say that, we don't mean it.
Like if I'm like, oh, you're going to the gym?
He's like, yeah. And I'm like, no, stay in bed.
And then he's like, do you want me to?
And there's like that thing of being like, I will if you really want.
I'm like, no, no, no.
Go. Like, just having your own things that you do and not losing that because it is really easy too.
Yeah, I agree. And I think that the mistake I've made in past relationships is when you spend every waking minute together every night, especially in those early that early period, like where you, that's like where all the bonding happens.
When you, when you conflate all of that oxytocin and that dopamine with the other person's presence, you become codependent.
But additionally, all of that time and all of that codependency, I honestly think just speeds up the timeline of the relationship.
If it's not the right one.
100%. It puts it under so much pressure because you need time to breathe.
You need time to receive stimulation from your friends, from your family, from your hobbies.
And when you don't allow the relationship to breathe, when you put it in a pressure cooker and you like almost join your hands together and won't let them go, all that's going to do is just completely just burn the string out and you'll be, you'll be done by the end of the week.
You'll get bored. You'll get bored.
And you'll start irritating each other.
You will get to the point that you're just like, the sound of their voice makes me want to cry.
And then as well, you start sitting there and thinking, how do we get here?
I was so in love with you.
How are we here? It's because you do need to give that breathing.
You need to have that time that you're investing in other things because as well, you're the only constant in your own life.
I so agree with that.
You can't rely on anyone else to be your social life, to be like the one solo person to be your social life, your happiness, your entertainment.
You need to be that for yourself and then you need to pull on multiple resources for that.
You need to have your friends.
You need to have your like, I say work, but when I say work, I mean that thing that fuels you and makes you feel successful.
Yeah. And then your partner can also feed into that.
But it's so important to have those multiple energy sources that isn't just one person.
Because that energy source, if it is just that one person will run out.
Yeah, that's like draining on both of you.
And also when you're in a relationship, you're supposed to be growing together, but also individually.
And if you don't each have your own individual things going on, there's nothing new to bring to the relationship.
There's no points of conversation.
There's no like, oh, I learned this or I had this experience and sharing that.
Because it's like, oh, wait, you were there.
So then you just become stagnant.
And I think that's bad for both you as an individual, but also the relationship.
There's just nowhere to go from there.
And I wanted to ask, as you live with your partner, Chris, now, did you have any of those fears of spending so much time together when you first moved in?
Yeah, a little bit.
So we've lived together for I think like six years now.
But for the first seven or eight years, I'm bad at math, of our relationship, we were almost in a long distance relationship because he lived about an hour and a half away from me when we first started dating.
Then I moved up to Sydney and we lived three hours away.
So we would only get to spend weekends together pretty much.
So to go from that to then living together, I was a little bit concerned.
And I also know that I love socialising.
I love going to gigs.
I love to go out and have like a night out with the girls.
Chris doesn't drink.
So there's differences in our lifestyles that I was like, okay, this will be interesting.
But I really had faith that it was going to be great.
And I was like, this is actually going to be so fun.
It's really going to bring us together.
But a lot of other people were saying, this is going to be a real test for your relationship.
And again, I feel like my gut instinct was like, no, this is going to be a good thing.
We've been dating for many years by this point.
I would hope that I know him well enough that I think this is going to work.
And it did. And I think it's because we have maintained those separations in our lives.
So he has his own group of friends that he'll hang out with.
We have our own hobbies.
We have both very different careers, but both very supportive of each other's work lives and are still like best friends at the end of the day also.
And we have a lot of fun together.
And I think that's the thing is we have like joy and laughter every single day that we will go one day without each other.
And I like am genuinely so excited to go home and see him.
Oh, that's so amazing.
I think one thing as well that like we both do in our relationships is we are not constantly talking throughout the day.
Like we'll have like a few texts maybe of communication with our partners through the day.
Or sometimes we don't talk to them at all, but it's like there is no constant thread of communication throughout the whole day, especially if you live together.
That's so much because then you do see each other and you're like, Oh, so what is, what are we talking about?
Yeah, I've already told you everything.
Second is happening that like constant texting, constant needs like call every hour and check in and talk about what's happening in your day, like isn't healthy because again, what is it?
What more do you have?
Or if you're watching every single TV show together or doing every single hobby together, you've got nothing to like, you're like, Oh, I watch this really cool movie.
Oh, you watched it too.
Like, you've gotten, there's no spice.
Yeah. And just no time to enjoy things on your own and what you like, you'll just end up watching Wolf Wall Street.
Well, Americans like, oh.
And it's like those points of difference, right?
Like, and I loved what you said before about almost diversifying your portfolio, your life portfolio, because I do think that there's a tendency that I've seen in myself and amongst friends where a new love interest enters, suddenly 60 % carved off to them.
And it's natural to be obsessed.
It's natural to have all of that, all of those things, like rushing in your brain and rushing through your body and like pulling you towards that person.
But the big thing that I think often loses out is our friendships.
I think that is the first thing to go because you need work for money.
I think hobbies are another one that sometimes we let go of pretty quickly.
But I do think that we have a dedicated, like social time.
And sometimes we see social time as like romantic time and they take from each other.
So how did you, what either of you can answer this question?
Like, would you have any advice for how to maintain healthy, good friendships whilst in a relationship, especially in those early days?
Because I think it's the worst thing to spend the first six months obsessed with someone, wake up, things aren't going great and you don't have any friends.
Yeah. Yeah. I think at the start and by at the start I'm talking like the first month, I think it's okay to be completely infatuated with the person.
I think your friends, especially good ones, will sit there and watch and be like, love this for you.
Because they've also probably been there while you're dating absolute trash and they're like, please don't get back with your ex.
So when you actually meet someone good, they're like, yeah, stick, stick, stick.
It's a autobiographical conversation.
Yeah. So I think it's actually okay to be guiltless about falling in love.
I think you shouldn't have to stress yourself out about being like, I've met this person.
I really want to spend time with them this weekend, but I don't know.
Do I have to see like the girls?
Like blah, blah, blah.
That's okay. You can do that.
But once, you know, after a month, you definitely need to make sure that you're investing in your friendships in that month.
Also don't fall off the face of the earth.
Like keep up communications and don't just speak about yourself.
Don't just speak about how happy you are and how amazing things are.
Definitely speak to it, but not only about that, make sure that you're asking and investing in your friends' lives as well.
I think what I've like, I've actually kind of found it a lot simpler in this relationship than others because I like missing my partner.
I like having time away and building that.
And it is hard because when you are completely infatuated, then you're like, I just want to spend every second with you.
But I've burned that bridge before.
Like I've done that.
And I'm like, I know I don't want that.
Plus I'm also infatuated with my friends.
So I think having that, those really good quality friends that you do genuinely feed off and want to see and booking in those times.
Like have the girls' night that you're like, Oh my God, I saw this really cool bar.
Let's all go on Friday and go.
You're going on Friday and it's not a chore.
You're not like, Oh, I've got to go see my friends.
If you feel like that, maybe that's something to investigate further too.
It's not the relationship's fault.
Yeah, it's not the relationship's fault if you're like dreading seeing your friends.
And so I think making sure that you invest time into doing things that you really want to do and booking it in.
If you are kind of struggling, if you do have a partner that wants to spend that Friday night with you as well, making sure that you let them know in advance.
Being like, by the way, on Friday, like I'm going to this bar with the girls.
You're not asking for permission by the way.
We don't do that. We don't be like, is that okay?
You just be like, I'm not available.
I'm doing this. And they'll be like, stunning, amazing, brave.
That's literally what Chris and I do at the beginning of every week on like a Sunday night.
We're like, all right, so what's the schedule for this week?
And I'm like, okay, so I'll be home this night, this night.
And he's like, okay, cool.
Like I'm meeting up with friends on this night.
I'm going to do this on this night.
And we're like, okay, great.
So Friday will go on a date then and do it like that.
But I think, yeah, like booking in regular catch ups with your girlfriends and don't invite your fucking boyfriend.
Sorry, I don't know if I can start out the show.
You can totally swear.
That does not count.
I think a lot of people think that counts.
Like, no, but we caught up last weekend.
Jason was there, so it doesn't count.
And people are different when their partners are there.
You can't talk about the gross little things that you do with the girls when you're like, oh my God, guys, I ate this food the other day.
And really, what came out of me was not humanly possible.
Like you can't talk about that when like, it's just different.
And like, because maybe you're comfortable to say in front of your boyfriend, but your friend probably doesn't want to talk about the giant poo they did.
Because I'm your boyfriend, so like don't bring them.
And that's an important part of French.
Yeah, talking about like your pew.
Like we were on a cruise.
And I think one thing that is kind of easy for me in mind is that a lot of my friends, like my friends and my boyfriend's friends had mutual friends.
So like when we're kind of spending time in a group atmosphere, it is very easy.
But what happens is like, he'll go off with like a group of people and then I'll chill with like another group that we don't need to be attached to the hip in those like social settings.
Like we can go to a party and be like, okay, Dilsis, see you in two hours.
And that's fine. And I love that.
I've had partners that like glued to my hip at an event and I was like, get off me.
And it's a lot. But I was going somewhere with this, where was it going?
Oh, yeah. Like we recently went on a cruise with our group of friends and some of them are in relationships and then some of them are single.
And so it can be like a cruise.
There's not a lot of pickings for the singles.
And so then anyway, one of them, I was like, let's just do a girls night.
Like let's like ditch the boys for one night and just hang out with the girls.
Like making sure that you're kind of showing up for your friendships, not just booking it in when it's convenient for you.
Like not being like, oh, I'm free on Friday night.
Why don't we get a drink then?
Definitely. That's amazing.
But making sure that if they're being like, oh, I don't have anything on this weekend.
Do you want to hang out?
Like you're going like even if maybe you were planning on just having a movie night with your partner.
If you don't have like the most concrete of plans, making sure that you're still showing up for your friends, especially friends that you were like you're single girly with.
Because for them, you don't want them to feel abandoned.
It's like they're like, well, we used to spend all this time together.
We used to go out and pick up and flirt or just hang out together.
And then you don't want them to feel like you've just run off, found a boyfriend and their job's done.
Like they serve their purpose.
You don't want them to feel that way.
So making sure that you still show up for them whenever they do want to go out and have that fun time that you're there.
I really agree with this.
As someone who is single right now, that's something that I have found.
It's almost something that you dread, like your friends get into a new relationship and you're like, all righty.
So am I about to be like the third fourth option now?
Or is this going to stay the same?
And you have to, I think, appreciate from the other perspective that, like you said, when your friend, someone you love, is going through this incredible experience, you do really want to be there.
You do want to be happy for them.
But additionally, I do think that sometimes I've had experiences where friends have gotten into relationships and it's been impossible to get a hold of them.
And you just feel a little bit like it wasn't authentic.
What you had. You feel like you've been dumped.
Yeah, you do. And it's like, you've been replaced and you're like, hey, what about me?
Yeah. And it's the interesting thing.
Like, I love your point about, I think if you are from the perspective of someone who has like a lot of my friends are in long -term relationships now, please don't invite your partner unless they are explicitly invited.
I have one of my best friends, her partner and I are actually friends.
So we met through her, but, and I don't mind if he's around.
Because I actually, if she goes away, she will go out and go shopping and he'll stay at my place and we'll just have tea and chat.
That's not a problem.
But the thing is that she does a good job at being like, all right, bugger off.
Her and I are going to hang out for a little bit.
And there is an understanding there that your friendships play an equally important part in your well -being as your relationships.
1000%. And I kind of also hate that notion that there's something bad about being single.
I don't know about you if you've ever experienced this, but when I was, like people in relationships would be like, oh, don't worry, you'll find someone.
And you're like, I'm not looking.
Oh my gosh. You know what I hate?
Sorry, guys. I'm going to, I'm steering this ship in a new direction.
I want to ask this question of you to, both of you being in relationships, the thing I get all the time and I'm not looking for love.
I've already found it.
No, just kidding. We're already here.
No, I'm not. I'm so busy that it's not possible, but the thing that people always say to me is it will happen when you least expect it.
And I find that so frustrating because it will happen when you're not looking for it.
If you are an anxious person, like we all are at some stages, you are never not looking for the next thing around the corner.
That's the whole point about like anticipatory anxiety.
So, was that true for you both?
Did it happen when you were least expecting it?
When you stopped looking?
No. No? Not at all.
Like, I feel like I'd gone from like dating like little like high school fuck boys and basically learning exactly what I didn't want.
And then was talking to one guy who I really thought that I really liked and then met Chris and then was just like, well, that's over now.
Like, so it wasn't even like, oh, like, I'm not going to date.
I'm just going to, it's like, no, I was looking.
Like, I think mine is like a bit of both.
I think I was like in my sexy single girl era and had taken the time to work on myself that like there were definitely times that I was like, I'm not looking for a relationship.
I was like, absolutely not.
I'm so good doing me because I was working on myself.
I was having that time and was very problematically still engaging with an ex.
So I was so boring.
I'm sure you had something to say about that.
Yeah, a lot of things to say.
A self -sabotaging part that she's talking about.
Whilst you for what?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Oh, I was like, wait, that's a bold thing to admit.
No, no, no, no, like months before I met my partner, like nearly a year before I met my partner.
And like, we still had contact.
And then it got to a point that I was like, like I can't move on.
Like, I can't move on properly.
Like I definitely was not emotionally still there.
Like I was not in love with this person anymore, but it was a crutch.
And I was like, oh, you know what, this is not feeding me anymore.
And I was like, this is done.
And if I want to actually find someone that I want to be with, then I'm cutting this person off.
And that's exactly what I did.
And then a year later, I actually met my partner.
And it wasn't like planned.
I met them through mutual friends.
So like that is kind of the way that like I wasn't expecting it.
But once I met them, I was like, yeah, I was like, this is, but it's only because I kind of shut off the things that was holding me back from being in a relationship.
Like I was like, okay, I'm not going to engage with things that kind of stunt me emotionally.
And I felt like I had that time to myself that I was like, cool.
I feel like I know who I am, that I'm actually confident to get into a relationship if I feel like it's going to be the right one.
And then like, he came out of the blue, like I had no idea who he was.
I'd never met him before.
And he was amazing.
So I was like, well, shit.
But I was also very scared of commitment because I'd been burned.
So I like had to navigate that, that when we first met, like I would take like a week to reply like the first date I bailed on.
No way. You bailed on it.
I bailed on it for another.
Or did you reschedule?
I ended up messaging him because I was like, because he the night we met, he ended up like booking day.
He's like, we're going on a date.
And I was like, hey, hey.
And then I got like that first date anxiety.
And then I was also sick.
He doesn't believe me, but I genuinely was sick.
But I was also like, I don't know whether to say anxiety.
Definitely still played a part, but she was genuinely sick.
I was genuinely sick.
I have the antibiotics prescription to prove it.
Backdated. Hey, duck.
I need a favor. So I didn't go.
And then, like, I just, we were talking for a bit and then I kind of just like didn't reply to the last message.
And then I took about a week and I was like, and then I just sent a message.
I'm like, hey, I'm going to be in the city.
Let me know if you want to join me for a drink.
And he was like, absolutely.
I would. And I was like, and then from that point, it was just the rest is.
Yeah. But I think that's the thing though, is that it, that whole cliche of, Oh, when you stop looking, some are more.
Looking for love. I just think that's bullshit.
I think the thing is, though, is that you can't be looking for a relationship for the sake to tick a box because you're setting yourself up for failure and you're literally going to settle for the first dud that like sniff's in your direction, which isn't good.
So you need to be at that point where you're happy with yourself.
And I think that's where Al finally was.
Like she'd done all that work, cut off that dead weight and exactly.
And then that opportunity presented itself because she was ready.
And I feel like my little teenage self was also the same.
But even though I was like, no, I'm ready for a boyfriend now, like, yeah, I'm where is he?
Like, but it's by that point, I knew what I did and didn't want out of a boyfriend, even just by like the shitty people that I'd interacted with as a young woman.
But that's the thing.
Like you can't be looking for a relationship to make up for something that's missing in your life.
Like you should have everything.
Your cup should be literally overflowing.
And then that overflow, you can give to a relationship.
That is such a beautiful metaphor.
I didn't make it up.
I've heard it somewhere.
Oh, I didn't want to coin it.
Someone be like, copyright.
But it is an analogy that I heard.
I can't remember where but that you or you can give to other people, your cup should remain full and you give others the overflow because they should be filling up your cup too.
So that way, it's a give and give.
I don't like the give and take.
Everything's a give and give.
And the whole point of this episode is like, how do you maintain your identity in a relationship?
You've kind of talked about what you both do in that sense.
What would you do if you realized that you were losing yourself?
What would be like the antidote?
What would be your solution if you woke up and you were like, all right, actually, there's some stuff that's flown under the radar a little bit here.
That's actually become a bigger issue.
Not suggesting that you break up with your partners, but in terms of like, what would be some of the things you would immediately put in place or get back to?
I think the first thing is don't panic.
I think don't have a knee jerk reaction and panic and think, oh my God, I'm a completely different human being.
Who am I? Because it is a scary thought to feel like maybe you've lost that power over yourself and it is a bit intimidating.
But I think it's good to simplify where that's coming from within yourself and really take kind of everything away and think, what do I want?
What is my identity?
What are the things that I like doing that make me feel genuine joy?
Is that going for a walk and listening to your favorite podcast, The Psychology of Your 20s and Two Broke Chicks is that - I was hoping you would say yours as well.
I was like, come on.
She's in marketing.
And is that, you know, calling your friend, is that reading your smarty little fairy book, finding out what those things are and doing it and committing to that plan of putting that time in for yourself or for whatever that is that your identity is because there's this book - What's the book that I'm
obsessed with that I always quotes out?
The one about habits.
Atomic habits. Atomic habits, that's it.
And so his whole theory that he writes in this book about identity and individuality is that it is made up of your habits.
Your habits create who you are.
So if you are doing habits that constantly involve someone else whether that is hanging out with your friends all the time or it's hanging out with your partner all the time or it's being at work all the time, there's nothing within those habits that is making you individual because it's coming from other
habits that involve other people.
So you need to identify the habits that make you who you are and invest time into those again.
Because when you were single, you had all the time in the world to do that.
Whereas when you're in a relationship, your time shifts.
And it's so easy. It's so easy to happen.
And you're not lesser than for that happening.
Happen to everyone.
I feel like that's such a normal experience.
And I think as well as rebuilding those habits, perhaps exploring new ones.
Yeah. Also have the conversation with your partner and be like, hey, I'm feeling this way.
I feel like I need to invest a little bit more time in myself.
Maybe you can do the same.
And communicate that so they're not like, wait, why are they pulling back?
What's going on? I don't know if I dramatize it though.
Because I feel like if your partner comes to you randomly, or you go to your partner randomly, he's like, yeah, I feel like I don't know who I am.
I'm going to spend some time alone.
I would be like, oh, is everything OK?
Like you'd be like, you know what I really miss?
Going to Pilates. I'm going to start doing that every Sunday morning and do that.
And then I think as well with your friends, if you've let that part of your life slide, the most annoying thing is when a friend either breaks up with their partner or they realize that they've lost themselves.
And then they're like, hey, I'm back.
Hey, girlie. And they sort of just expect everything to go back to normal.
If they've completely ditched you, that can be a really frustrating feeling.
But what I've had in the past is people say, hey, I've realized that I've been spending a lot of time with my partner.
And no one else. I'm so sorry.
I just completely lost sight of everything else.
But I really want to put effort into this friendship.
Oh, that's such a beautiful relationship.
Can we catch up? And I was like, I so respect that honesty and that introspection.
And then it didn't even give me the chance to be like, well, look who, gang.
Girl, is he only back?
Because I'm like, she knows.
Thank you. And thank you.
Thank you for acknowledging and like brushing it under the rug.
And yes, let's go get coffee.
Yeah. I love you. That's a beautiful thing.
You're my best friend.
Yeah. I had that happen.
And I think it's also one of those things where you can't expect that, like you said, fit everything to be the same.
I've had that in the past where a friend has moved in with someone.
She moved in really quickly.
Within like seven months, they were super in love.
Two years later on, we hadn't heard from her for like a year.
And suddenly she was a wreck because this was her entire identity.
It had fallen apart.
And she came back and was like, OK, so why aren't we doing the same things anymore?
They broke up. She was like, why aren't we going out drinking all the time?
Why aren't we hanging out in each other's houses?
And I was like, because we all have jobs now.
And because we all have partners now and because we're all doing different things.
But I think she was really she eventually came around to that realization and was like, I actually just really need some help.
And we were like, yeah, of course.
Like, yeah, we'll do what we can.
So guys, I think this is all we have time for.
But this has been an amazing episode.
I really want to ask both of you.
This is something that the girls do on their show, Two Birth Ticks, life lesson.
But what would be your life lesson from this conversation that you would like to instill to someone who may be questioning whether their relationship is getting in the way of their own identity?
I think the biggest life lesson is for this for me would be a reminder that you are so fun to hang out with.
Hanging out with yourself is the best time that you can ever invest in.
An investment in yourself is always a good investment.
So don't ever feel like you've lost yourself because you're still in there.
You're still in there.
You might be a little bit different and that's OK.
But it's like with any muscle, you just keep doing it and it gets stronger.
So if you are feeling like you have lost your identity, don't worry.
It's not gone. It's just still in there.
And there are so many ways to have a relationship, a romantic relationship, and for it to be fulfilling and fun and beautiful, but it doesn't have to take up your entire life.
And I think that's a really important reminder to fill up the other cups in your life as well.
Thank you so much for your brilliant wisdom.
Thank you for having us.
Of course, if you are not listening to Two Broke Cheeks, you've just got to do it.
They're a lot funnier than me.
So it's true. Go and go and listen to them if you're loving Australian accents and can't get enough of them.
Like, not these two.
And amazing banter and very incredible wisdom.
So thank you both for coming on the show.
Thank you for having us.
And where can they find you personally?
So you can listen to Two Broke Cheeks.
We have a good podcast assault.
Spotify, Apple Podcasts.
We're everywhere. You can't get away from us.
Also on Instagram at Two Broke Cheeks and on TikTok at Two Broke Cheeks underscore.
That underscore will haunt us for the rest of our lives.
Someone else got there first.
And it's fair enough.
Early bird gets the win.
That's true. And if not, you can catch us at Vasco in Surrey Hills every Friday night.
Woo! Love Southside and a vodka lamp's out of waiting for you.
Very lovely. Well, thank you all for listening as always.
If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, whatever you are listening right now.
If you have a friend who needs to hear this episode, send it to them.
What a raid though.
Imagine if you send it to your friend who is in a relationship.
Just saying. Yeah. And no comment.
Just a link. Just a link.
Yeah, nothing else.
And you know what? Maybe they'll thank you later.
Probably not at that point in time.
But and as always, we will be back next week with another episode.
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