Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast inner cosmos which recently hit the number one science podcast in America I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford and I've spent my career exploring the three pound universe in our heads join me weekly to explore the Relationship between your brain and your life because the more
we know about what's running under the hood better We can steer our lives Listen to inner cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Parents looking for a screen free fun and engaging way to teach your kids the Bible as a mom I was looking for the same
thing So I created kids Bible stories podcast Thousands of families are raving about it and kids actually request to listen with captivating sound effects voices and an apply section at The end to spark meaningful conversations.
It's a hit with both kids and parents Listen to kids Bible stories podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio Hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too and this is stuff
you should know I got no little mini joke for this Let's dive into love drugs.
Okay Well Chuck would you overtake a love drug if they were available?
Uh no, but Based on the the couple of people that we're sort of highlighting on who have been researching this kind of thing Uh -huh.
It's definitely something I think has more merit than when you just think about Quote unquote love drug.
Yeah, I saw I think it was a new scientist even some very legitimate Science magazine source was saying like these things are gonna be around in 10 years So there's a group of philosophers Especially an ethicist named Julian Savilescu From oh, I think he's from Oxford And then another guy named Brian Earp
who I also believe is from Oxford They have kind of been hitting this hard and actually came out with the book called love drugs colon The chemical future of relationships, I think in Europe it's called love is the drug Which is a Roxy music reference if I'm not mistaken and they're at the center of this whole
talk But one of the cool things about when a philosopher puts a book out there's other philosophers that critique it in interesting like alternative Thoughts and explanations and stuff like that and this is there's this is no different from anything else but what Savilescu and Earp are basically saying
is These things are coming and here's how they could work and here's what to look out for And how they can help and that's essentially the basis of this episode Yeah, for sure.
Um, this comes with some caveats at the beginning chiefly because they use the word love drug and that's a that's a term that means a lot of things to Everybody that you might ask across different cultures even within the same culture situationally love can mean something different to to anybody, so The
first thing to kind of know is that there's not anyone out there saying like hey Love is just a phenomenon.
That's Because of the chemicals in your brain like I think even the the most hard -hearted philosopher will say Or chemists will say like yeah there are chemicals that work in the brain that that you know release all kinds of Hormones and things that make us feel certain ways and it factors in but like
there's also This indefinable thing that will never be able to like understand and control through a medication Yeah, I think what they're what they're getting at then from that point on instead of saying it Yes, we agree.
Love is not just biochemical, but there are a lot of biochemicals involved in the feeling of love And whatever love is it's associated with these chemicals.
So if we can Manipulate these chemicals perhaps we can jack the feelings of love up or create love or strengthen love That's that's kind of like the position they're coming from and so from that point on just accepting that love has some sort of Biochemical basis to it or signature to it.
They then moved on to the work of an anthropologist named Helen Fisher who?
Dedicated essentially her career to Love basically and she divided love into essentially three parts And this sounds really familiar to me.
There's no way we haven't talked about this before.
Have we did it seem familiar to you?
Just feeling that way about you and Jerry and my wife and my daughter, okay?
Well, let's get to it lust Well, never mind.
Apparently you felt about me and Jerry Romantic attraction sometimes and then attachment.
I think is the one you're talking about for sure Those are the three stages.
A lot of people will say that those occur in that order Fisher is like now it can occur in really any order and then fall back out of order and back into order Which you know, I kind of agree with that notion but she does say that you know, these are the things that package together as what we would look
around the world at and agree on as Romantic love like a long -term love relationship.
Yeah, and when you look around the world, it's expressed in different ways Sometimes very privately sometimes there's PDA like it's just different culturally But if you strip all that stuff away, you're going to find those three stages Essentially are those three parts of that package not everybody
agrees with that Psychologist named Lisa Diamond from the University of Utah Which by the way, if you're ever bored and you wanted to learn about epigenetics go to the University of Utah site I think I mentioned this before they have a world -class user friendly Epigenetics website.
It's amazing. But anyway, Lisa Diamond believes in more of a split attraction model and she says Sex and romantic attraction they are independent biologically.
They're functionally independent They don't depend on one another and therefore Helen Fisher is wrong about this whole thing being a single package Yeah, and she's got some points and she can point to some studies That seem to back this up.
One of which that she cites on the reg is that 61 % of women and 35 % of men have reported that they experience infatuation without a need for sex.
Mm -hmm. So That that certainly makes sense but if you look at sex and romance and love in the way that The culture of a lot of the world looks at it at least that three -part chemical formula from Fisher carries a lot of common -sense weight I think And we're going to look at some of these chemicals now
including at first Testosterone and estrogen of course would strive the libido That's sort of the first bucket.
Yeah, that's the last part, right?
The next one Chuck would be the attraction part or the romantic attraction And that that's associated with a bunch of different ones a dopamine norepinephrine Which increases arousal and attention Cortisol which is interesting, but it's totally makes sense when you think about it cortisol stress symptoms
Include things like racing heart and sweating palms another one serotonin serotonin Regulates mood and Keeps out intrusive thoughts.
So when there's a dysregulation of serotonin those things can kind of creep in And you can feel intense intense feelings and think about nothing else, but the person you're romantically attracted to and you put all those things together and you've got the the chemistry the brain chemistry essentially
of Romantic attraction the thing that's beyond just lust the thing or you want to be with that person yeah, for sure and when you have that initial attraction and then it settles in to just sort of Normal relationship status.
I guess that puppy love sort of wears off Those are chemical reactions as well that cortisol that shot up and the lack of serotonin those kind of level off And that's why you level off It's very sad but it happens.
So what about attachment attachment is oxytocin That is one that we've talked about a lot on the show also one this very closely related vasopressin Which is the one that males and male mammals at least is most important for bonding And this is you know when you have sexual intercourse or maybe some
other kind of intimate contact hugs even a good hug can release some oxytocin so will Other things that you can do like hugging kissing other people And that's when your empathy and your trust and your feelings of safety are really going to ramp up and that's that's a big deal That's how well.
That's how you become attached right and so evolutionarily speaking caring for offspring is Facilitated by oxytocin in a lot of ways there's a tremendous amount remember oxytocin Like in part responsible for breast milk production like there's a huge increase of it during labor and delivery It's a big
deal, but it also has to do with pair bonding with Mates the people who come together and reproduce to create that offspring to put it really biologically So the there's a question it's not just granted science that humans are pair bonding Mammals like say Prairie voles which we'll talk about in a minute
but as insofar as we are The oxytocin has a lot to do with that I think is what I'm trying to say so much so that people call that the love drug Yeah, for sure like if you Google love drug you'll probably run across that pretty quickly that or ecstasy Yeah, which will also get to So one of the other
big caveats, and I imagine like every lecture that Savilescu and Earp probably give start off with them saying by the way when we're talking about a love drug or a love potion We're not talking about What you've seen in movies and stories and fairy tales when like some some losers Attracted to like
the hottest person in their class And so they spiked their drink and all of a sudden that person thinks they're gorgeous and have been that you have a winning personality They were like we're not talking about that at all there's there's not a way to do that and Even if there was that's ethically not it's
dangerous to even talk about something like that But what we're talking about is people that are in relationships who are in long -term partnerships or marriages to use potentially use these drugs to give them some boosts when they need it to and increase those Feelings not necessarily take them back
to like the puppy love stage, but not not do that Right.
I say we take a break and we'll come back and talk a little more about that.
How about that? Yes.
It's great We'll be right back I Senora sex ed is not your mommy sex talk this show is la platica like you've never heard it before We're breaking the stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in latinx communities This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between latinas from Gen X to Gen
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We promise to avoid any black holes most of the time Okay Okay, Chuck So where we left off we're basically saying that several SQ and Earp and all of them are like we're not you can't create Love out of nothing at all as air supply would have put it From for these love drugs were these again generally
hypothetical theoretical love drugs But you could use them to help people who want to stay together, but for one reason or another Have lost the attachment that they once had That could help people a lot and that's kind of what they're they're pointing to is like the main use of something like a love
drug if we ever come up with one yeah, and they'll also say things like hey, if you think we sound like human monsters for trying to sort of regulate or increase these good time feelings by the use of drugs like What do you think happens when a married couple this been married for 25 years and are a little
sick of each other?
They go on a sweet awesome vacation or go out and have a couple of drinks together and at a nice dinner It's basically the same thing that we're talking about is like though those are things that people are accepting as a Way to do that in your marriage, and we're just talking about doing it in a way
That's just a little more dialed in and scientific exactly you can take a love drug or you can go to PF Chang's your choice But the results gonna be the same you're gonna fall right back in love right yeah, sure So the other that is a question though.
It's kind of like okay.
Well wait a minute What if we're not if humans aren't actually parabonded if we're not evolutionarily meant to be monogamous Then it does kind of seem to be at least counter -evolutionary To take a drug to stay together I mean that what if that's like you know That's a that's a signal that boredom is a signal
that you need to find a different relationship or move on from the other one I mean that might be true in some cases, but there's also plenty of cases to where people are not functionally able to be Attached as they want to be to their mates in a relationship say people with autism people with ADHD
They might want to be in that relationship, but they're not bringing it like they need to that's a good example of how of Supporting a monogamous relationship essentially rather than just forcing somebody to stay in by drugging them yeah, for sure and also Like even though this might fly in the face
of evolution because I think they even say That you know it seems like evolutionarily we're supposed to get together Have a kid and stick around together for about four years to get that kid going in life And then that's it evolutionarily speaking, but they're quick to point out like there are a lot
of benefits to long -term Coupling you know it's good for your mental health they're you know that studies have shown that it can be good for your mental health and physical health and overall well -being so and people are doing it anyway.
You know they're not like trying to to rewrite this People are staying married anyway, so they're saying why don't we give people better tools in a?
Clinical setting is like part of couples therapy so they can connect on a level that they haven't in a while Yeah, you can make a case like evolutionarily speaking We should be beating up people who have different hair color than us But we don't do that because we've agreed as modern society That's
not that's in the past evolutionarily speaking you can make the same thing for monogamous relationships Even if we didn't evolve to socially speaking we've decided as humans We're kind of into that kind of thing so why not use a drug to support that when needed?
That's yeah, they're saying that's what they're saying and also they're pointing out things these guys make a lot of good points Yeah, they say and also so does livia by the way who helped us out with this one Yeah, livia weighed in on some stuff, and I thought it was all like super valid and smart
But they also point out things like hey You know we're on a bunch of anti love drugs like a lot of these SSRIs that people are taking are lowering their sex drive Maybe dampening their feelings and sort of dulling their feelings Which is going to affect their partner and the medical community is like
prescribing this stuff to individuals when people aren't just individuals they're in partnerships and marriages where They the whole family needs to be considered with stuff like this and the medical community Doesn't doesn't look at it that way and they should yeah, and they're using the opportunity
in discussing love drugs to point out that like you we should be doing this with other drugs that are Already in wide use like you said SSRIs like Drugs that impact the way that you interact with other people for good or ill This has to be considered and it should be considered as part of the love drug,
too, right? I think that's essentially what they're saying Yeah, yeah as well as like hey You don't just have to use these drugs to treat a disease like why not use these drugs?
For people that don't have any disease to actually enhance their life and their romantic life that's a huge one too because What they're essentially saying I watched a couple of Lectures by Brian Earp and he kind of really hit on this in one of them He was he was basically saying like we have this as
society at least American society.
We have this really weird Like dichotomous view of Drugs, right Drugs that are made by pharmaceutical companies that are prescribed by doctors Okay, but we only use those to treat maladies when you start to use those same drugs that are Pharmaceuticals and prescribed to improve something that we've
already agreed is a good enough baseline Now you're entering into the realm of recreational drugs And we we as a society are basically like we're not cool with recreational drugs And that's what several excuse and or one of the other points they're taking the opportunity a point I was like that doesn't
make any sense Morally ethically, why would you not use something that can improve something that to make you happier to make you feel closer to your mate?
Even if you're already doing good enough, and I think that's a really good point, too but The other part of that point is there's a concern that we would if we start creating love drugs Then as a society We would expect pharmaceutical companies to come up with some malady that these need to treat Or
else they're not gonna go anywhere.
So we need to come up with something like Hypo -love ya or something like that where we're just not that good at loving So we need these hills and now all of a sudden we have labels like you're not very good at loving There's a new label for somebody just because we can't be like this in and of itself
is a good thing We don't have to medicalize it Yeah, don't take love itself if you have a bad reaction to love itself That's a little inside joke for our live show fans, right?
Yeah for sure which will be releasing that not too far from now I would guess right?
Yeah, probably end of the year ish fall late fall.
Let's say let's say late fall All right.
So, you know, what kind of drugs are we talking about?
You know who knows what's coming down the line if we're looking at what's in front of us right now We can talk about a few things we've already talked about booze Alcohol is a drug and alcohol is a drug that is already used for this They use this Savilescu and erp, you know use this as an example of like
the potential like hey someone It's fine if someone goes out and has a couple of drinks on a first date to sort of relax them and make them a little more socially maybe less awkward if that's how they might feel and You know again, they're listening like this is what we're talking about.
We're already doing it with booze Yeah, I mean that yeah, that's a great smart thing to point out because it's like, okay Well, you just disarm me Savilescu, that's a point to you They also point out that we have sex drugs In rock and roll like Viagra is a sex drug Taking testosterone low T.
Ask Frank. What's his name?
He'll tell you the ladies are gonna like it, too These are libido boosting chemicals or erection producing chemicals And the point of them is to have more or better sex, right?
And so Savilescu and erp in their ilk aren't saying like that's a love drug They're saying these drugs can help facilitate the things that produce feelings of love say like the release of oxytocin that comes from sex So indirectly those are already love drugs that are on the market Wait who's Frank
so -and -so Frank he's a Hall of Fame MLB slugger from the 90s maybe early 2000.
Oh, oh Frank Thomas.
Yes He does those ads with Doug Flutie.
Yeah I've seen those I forgot about this and he does that creepy like she's gonna love it, too Yeah, it's a little creepy but also like well they got paid for those nevermind.
Yeah I was gonna say good for them for like, you know for taking the mantle of men with low T, but uh So good for them So You mentioned prairie voles earlier Prairie voles are are great little rascals.
They're good comps for For human behaviors when it comes to mating and bonding and stuff like that They bond in ways that are kind of like us and our marriages so they bond initially to Because of sex because that oxytocin is released kind of like we do When they're bonded they like to spend time with one
another they nest and make homes together They care for their offspring together.
They work together go to the farmers market together Yeah, they go to the farmers market.
They they buy those light -up roses at traffic stops people buy those Sure Just some sort of ploy for something else Like there's you know a Kilo of cocaine in the bottom of that bucket right or they want you to like come meet their friend the leader Right.
Yeah, exactly. Well, maybe this I've never bought them But they've done lab experiments where they have administered oxytocin to females and then the vasopressin for the males and It caused them to bond just like they would if they had mated without mating and if they block those chemicals They don't
form the bonds. So it's kind of, you know, it's not direct proof, but it's kind of like sitting right there saying Hello, this works.
Yeah, and I mean again Prairie rolls are definitely pair bonded species and humans aren't necessarily But the fact that all of those brain chemicals do the same things to them that they appear to do to us.
That's pretty It is a useful model for sure An oxytocin again, we're gonna keep hitting that because there's a good reason why people call it the love drug and there's already available on the market Intranasally taken like one of those nasal sprays that you squeeze it's oxytocin It's available in that form
and it shouldn't cross the blood -brain barrier But it does something it actually does have an effect studies have shown like this actually has an Oxytocin -like effect on the people who use it They think maybe if it doesn't actually cross the blood -brain barrier Just raises the general level of the oxytocin in your
system who knows but from that people have Proposed uses of this stuff that's already on the market In ways that are not quite love but more kind of tap into the idea that you can build trust With somebody through oxytocin and that if you dose them with that They will have to trust you and here's the other
thing about oxytocin is there been a lot of studies on this stuff Kind of like the the early 2000s is when all this got Heavily researched, you know the early the beginning of it and a lot of those results were you know, pretty astounding But a lot of those studies also can't be replicated now so You
know experts are now saying like hey all those all those early studies about oxytocin.
We really need to kind of Pump our brakes a little bit Not saying completely discount it but like let's just do more research Yeah, and like some of those some of those uses that were proposed that go beyond love There was a Air Force major named David death's Who in 2007 wrote a master's thesis on using?
oxytocin spray for things like hostage negotiation and riot control to establish immediate like trust With the police or the military or whatever and of course all this is theoretical But that's exactly what Saviles skew and Earp and the people that are with them are trying to do They're saying like
this stuff could be coming and we need to talk about like how it's fraught and how it could be useful And that's a good example of how it's fraught.
You don't want people Controlling you or making you trust them even though you probably shouldn't just because they've dosed you with oxytocin if that ever really becomes possible yeah, and you know Earp and Savilesco will also say like, you know, It seems to help out in some positive ways, but also some
negative ways And experts will chime in and say well.
Yeah, but in a very limited way like Introducing this you know and in a not a fake way, but I guess what would be called exogenous way to your body just go out and Take a hike and do some exercising or give someone a hug and that's about the same effect that you're you're gonna be getting by introducing
it, you know Exogenous genus Lee.
Yeah exogenously Now like that.
I like the first time I kind of do too actually But the great thing about an intranasal oxytocin sprays you don't have to give somebody a hug Exactly and then also MDMA we said is something that comes up a lot when you search love drug And for good reason too.
I mean it does some wacky stuff to your brain chemistry including massive releases of oxytocin Dopamine norepinephrine cortisol serotonin all the stuff that Helen Fisher was hammering create lust romantic Love attachment all that stuff gets released to varying degrees when you take MDMA It also makes
you grind your teeth like crazy.
And so people have said okay This could conceivably be used therapeutically in some form and especially before it was outlawed in 1985 People were already studying it like that.
They were using it in therapeutic settings like couples therapy Yeah for sure And then when studies come out to say, you know When you take MDMA, you're more connected you're you're more loving to people.
There's a greater bond When it comes to even like casual conversations They it seemed like everything seems more meaningful Someone might also say yeah, but the same thing happens when you take methamphetamine It's just impacting instead of oxytocin.
It's impacting dopamine and norepinephrine And like you said since 85 MDMA MDMA, sorry Has been banned for study in therapeutics, but it is it is still used in different countries a lot of times with people have PTSD diagnoses and In couples therapy to pretty great effect.
Yeah, I was reading there's some couples therapists kind of rogue couples therapists Who are like I can't tell you to go by MDMA and I certainly can't tell you where to go buy it But I can tell you that if you have it on you and you show up to this particular place We're going to be having a retreat where you
and your wife would be able to take this in a therapeutic setting so people are still trying it and Anecdotally they report especially compared to methamphetamine The there's a lasting effect of like the attachment that can be produced by MDMA that lasts beyond You know the experience of being on MDMA
so it could conceivably be used as such but I think if there's You know if we can isolate oxytocin, and you can use that I would guess we were probably going to go more in that direction than MDMA and if you have cash You might see my office manager in the parking lot.
Oh, yeah, I don't know anything about it, right Sharky The office manager.
Yeah with loads of MDMA Let's take our second break and we'll come back and talk about the opposite of this.
How about that? Well, let's do it Senora sex ed is not your mommy sex talk.
This show is la platica like you've never heard it before We're breaking the stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in Latinx communities This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between Latinas from Gen X to Gen Z Recovery everything from body image to representation in film and television We
even interview iconic Latinas like Puerto Rican actress Anna Ortiz I fell in control of my own physical body and my own self.
I was on birth control.
I had sort of had My first sexual experience if you're in your Senora era or know someone who is then this is the show for you We're your host the OSA and mala and you might recognize us from our flagship podcast locatora radio We're so excited for you to hear our brand new podcast Senora sex ed listen
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on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you stream podcasts All right, so back to Sabalescu and herb It's fun to say isn't it?
What kind of singing do are they?
I Think one of them plays the organ and the other one plays the saxophone Okay, that sounds pretty good, okay, all right, so Another thing that they propose like you mentioned before the break is is the opposite of that Maybe some drugs that help you get away from the feeling of love.
Let's say you're in a relationship that is Toxic or complicated or even abusive and you have a hard time leaving because you have this attachment that you just can't let go of to your abuser or to your toxic friend or loved one and maybe if you are stuck in that loop we can design drugs to give you
the the Courage to get out of that.
Yeah I also saw in one of those lectures that Earp gave some other examples of how this could be useful Antiglove drug essentially if you're a pedophile seeking help Attunement, it could be useful for that if you are involved in an incestuous Relationship you don't want to be it could be helpful for that if you're
committing adultery and you love the person But you really love your spouse even more it could be useful for that.
And then lastly If you are selling those electric roses on the side of the road It can help you stop loving your cult leader as well So man, there's a there's a lot of other uses for it too that you just wouldn't think of but when you do think of it You're like actually it would be great to have a drug
for those people that need that kind of help And one of the other great things about this is that There's no Real downside to that like there's a there's a lot of objections as we'll see to the idea of creating love But how can you object to breaking?
Harmful love there's really no problem with that That's kind of like that's probably the best or least Objectionable use of a of a drug that has to do with an effect on love, you know, yeah for sure It's probably no surprise that there's been a lot of criticism criticism about all of this stuff There
was a German ethicist named Sven Neilm in 2014 That got wind of what Savilescu and Erp were doing and they said, you know, what it I don't even know if this counts if it's essentially synthetic Like it's it's not it's not real.
It's not these innate characteristics that people develop in a natural organic way It's it's a chemically Mediated sort of thing that you're designing.
Yeah, you could see him being like, okay That's a that's a pretty obvious objection, but he laid it out pretty well and essentially said like What this focuses on is, you know all of the things that that that and a loving attachment can produce like health and lower depression and you know a Stable
environment for the kids like those are the goods that you guys are focusing on What if we stop looking at love like that and look at it as love is intrinsically good in and of itself It doesn't matter what other great effects it has love itself is good enough Then if you're producing that chemically
even though you're creating all of these great side effects like stability in the house or you know Just good times.
It's still it's not love.
You can't say that.
It's it's love That's that's ultimately what his objection is.
Yeah, there's another guy from Cal State a guy named Jacob Blair another philosopher Who talk about you know, he just imagines two people in a relationship and he's saying well Here's the thing though is one's love for the other doesn't depend on the actual true characteristics of that person and like
who they really are and like I hear what you're saying Earp and Savilesco about like Yeah, but you know romantic dinners, it's the same thing and alcohol is the same thing But he argues back that like yeah But you can't go to romantic dinners every night and just have three or four drinks every night
to keep that You know quote unquote genuine love going It's not like a good comp who can afford to go to PF Chang's every single night Not me man.
Nobody now even the owner PF Chang himself couldn't afford that So there's another objection to what Jacob Blair and Sven Nihom were saying in defense of Savilescu and Earp by a Montreal ethicist named Haishim or Haishim NAR, Haishim NAR Haishim NAR argues that even if you're just producing something
that's like not actual love Those side effects that are good Are could be enough to keep you around so that you are still Experiencing all the stuff that that love produces and so if it's not actual love You could still conceivably appreciate the other person's characteristics That make you love them
And so the whole thing kind of becomes Hurley Burley at that point and really what's the problem?
Are you guys just being philosophers being philosophers?
I think is what NAR was saying Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of that for everybody who is a philosopher right now Yeah, that's just the nature of the beast.
Yes. They love to argue and put up weird situations to prove their point Yeah, I mean that's just the deal There's a bioethicist named Peter Harrison Kelly Who went about it in arguing it in a little bit different way?
Which is the notion of something like oxytocin being a love drug.
You know it all depends on this notion that That attachment is a feeling like it's a drive that you have and he said I don't think it's that that That's the case actually it's not like You don't have this drive to constantly feel this way toward a person like you have these hormones that may encourage
that But you already have to have that attachment in place To begin with but I mean it seems like that's kind of what Earp and Savilescu were saying though, right?
Yeah, I didn't a hundred percent understand with the issue that Harrison Kelly was raising was that Earp and Savilescu didn't agree with like you were saying like they're saying like yeah You can't create this out of the blue, but you can support it I guess what he was saying is more He disagrees with Helen
Fisher's idea like you're saying that it's a drive like you can't compare attachment to hunger like Attachment is its own thing.
It's separate from all that so you're not boosting attachment You're boosting the trappings of attachment the feelings that you get from attachment are being boosted But don't make any mistake that you're actually Boosting attachment itself.
Yeah is what he's saying that it's it's more than just some sort of biochemical drive So yeah in a way, he's certainly arguing and at the same time supporting their point.
I think Yeah, I think I think I agree.
That's exactly what he's saying And then you know, of course we have to talk finally about the fact that you know, these kind of things in the wrong hands You know, we've talked about spiking a drink or something like that being a just an awful thing to do Conversion therapy I could definitely see this getting
into the hands of people who think they could use it to convert LGBTQ people like you know, hey, let's just go put to two people in a room together of You know put a man and a woman there together and give them this drug and see if that cures them Exactly Yeah, there's a lot of ways that it can be misused
and I think Earp and Savilesky were criticized is basically saying like no you just make sure that you regulate them and make sure that the that they're prescribed correctly and They were definitely called out as naive for suggesting that that's the only way that they would be used So yeah, that is definitely
something that makes it fraught for sure.
I agree Frought you got anything else about love drugs coming soon No, it seems like it's coming soon in some way or another.
Yep, for sure And if you want to know more about love drugs just wait I guess and see what happens and see if you can get your doctor to prescribe them And in the meantime, it's time for listener mail Yeah, I'm gonna call this I'm glad I got this email because I I've been getting this wrong all these
years Oh no with this with this song title.
Okay, or I guess the the singer Hey guys listen to the episode on share One of you mentioned it was me Chuck working at retail at Christmas It was at the Gap and repeatedly hearing the song Santa's got a brand new bag by James Taylor Which you know, you correct me in the moment Obviously is James Brown.
He's a James Brown is also incorrect.
The song is clearly an homage to James Brown It is actually by a bunch of white kids from Detroit called Bob Seger and the Last Heard Oh, yes that Bob Seger.
He says The title is socket to me Santa and it was released in 1966 on the cameo Parkway Records label Probably my favorite Christmas song in 2018 and anthology of Last Heard singles from 66 to 67 was released Believe the first time they've been compiled in one place This is also an unrelated R &B funk
song. Oh there is also an unrelated R &B funk song called socket to him Santa by Joe And all circus 68 that's worth a listen and of course James Brown does have a Christmas album with some pretty great tunes And he died on Christmas Day.
I didn't know six. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow, that was some deep cuts.
Who is that? I Didn't even bother looking any of this stuff up.
So I hope Kevin Schneider is right He certainly comes across as confident.
So I believed every word.
Yep. Same here Kevin.
Thank you for mesmerizing us with your musical knowledge And if you want to be like Kevin and mesmerize us take your best shot You can send it off to stuff podcast at I heart radio dot -com Stuff you should know is a production of I heart radio for more podcasts my heart radio visit the I heart radio
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