A Loaded NBA Draft Debate, Wemby’s Finals Shadow, and Fun MLB Story Lines With Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Billy Gil | The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tate Frazier.

J. Kyle Mann, two people that love college basketball.

We're going to try to figure out what's going on with the top three in this college basketball season heading into the NBA draft.

Darren Peterson, A.J.

DeBansa.

I call him DeBansa.

It's DeBansa, DeBansa.

Now there's arguments about how to pronounce it.

I'm calling him A.J.

And Cam Boozer, who should go first?

And also, what the hell is going on with Peterson?

Diving into that.

We're going to talk about some Spurs pistons and the Spurs ceiling as well, but a very fun basketball combo.

And then the Duke is here.

Billy Gill uh wants to fill us in on what we should be looking for in spring training as we head toward the baseball season, which um baseball, with a lot of momentum right now.

Um, we're going to talk about all the things we're looking for.

So basketball, baseball, it's all next.

We're gonna take a break pro jam and then Tate and Kyle next.

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All right, Tate Frazier, Kyle Manor here from The Ringer.

We have deliberately not done a lot of college basketball in this podcast or really any, because until football ends I don't throw myself into it.

And then I belatedly catch up.

I start watching.

I start studying YouTube.

Congrats and thanks to all the weirdos who put up the crazy detailed YouTube clips.

By the way, of all the prospects.

I really enjoy those.

This is the toughest top three or four that we've had in mid-February that I can remember for the draft.

This has only happened a couple of times where there's arguments.

Even if you look at the FanDuel Alliance, Peterson has dropped down a minus, I think minus 125, to go first.

DeBansa, we're going to talk about that.

That's actually the correct pronunciation.

Tate's going to talk about that in a second, is now like plus 130.

And Boozer is a long shot at plus 750.

And these are great arguments.

Very few drafts, Tate, where you could make a case for three guys going first.

We had this with Paolo and Jabari and Chet, I think was the last time.

And this one, it almost seems more violent because of the super duper star potential.

But can you remember a draft like this?

I do think it is 2022, the last time that we had this conversation.

And I do feel like there's a Risa Shea test here that's happening, where it's like how many of these guys would have gone number one in 2024?

And we probably I mean we're definitely at four, maybe against the five, depending on how you feel about some of these other guys like Mikael Brown Jr.

Tough week for Risa Shea.

Shots fired.

He already lost his job in Atlanta.

I?

I'm just saying I think that's kind of like the test to see what you have at the top of this draft.

And I mean, each one of these guys is very unique in their own way.

I got to see them all at the McDonald's all American game last year in April.

I got to see him in practice, got to see him kind of hanging out with each other, how they interact with each other, how they treat each other.

It didn't feel like at that time.

The top four was native mint, was in the spot of Caleb Wilson and Caleb was kind of lurking in the five six, seven range.

I think Caleb has swapped with the mint and now a mint is more in that, in that situation.

But the way that they kind of looked at each other right, it was darren peterson seemed like the alpha dog of the group.

Yeah, we can get to that um, but you know, the bansa, the bansa which we can talk about that as well, is obviously in the mix.

And then i'm coming around on cam boozer because uh, you know and i say that with a little bit of uh sure, that's tough for you yeah, But I did like him just as a kid and just kind of the way he carried himself.

And I do feel like he's Mr. Consistent.

So yeah, those four guys are all in the mix right now.

The worst thing we ever did to Tate was when he was producing stuff for us and we had him helping out with JJ Reddick's podcast.

And it was honestly like a psychological experiment.

And I think I might have broken Tate a little bit.

I don't know if it was the same for like a year after.

Kyle, where do you stand on this being the hardest one to predict, as we're near the end of February now?

So we should have some feelings and yet we don't.

There's a real like Neapolitan ice cream thing going on with these three guys where it's just like you know you could legitimately argue for you know it's.

It's tough because Tate's right.

They absolutely do.

They do separate things well.

There's the steadiness of the Cam Boozer that people.

He lulls you into a sense of it almost being like a boring efficiency.

Like he's good, but he's really good at a lot of different things.

There's the electric scoring of Darren Peterson.

And then there's the kind of throwback ISO, just kind of.

You know, the thing is really funny because tate and i've joked about this on byu's website.

They had recordings of the players saying their own names and he said his voice on the site said devonta.

So they internally in their family must have had some kind of agreement about this is how we say this.

Um, but yeah, i mean over the course of the year, you know, in the summer i was, i was kind of trying to, i was talking myself into like gosh, like i could see cam booze, or just being a universal donor and helping so many different teams.

You see the doggedness of AJ, Devonta, Devonta.

See, I did it again.

Devonta.

We'll just call him AJ.

Yeah, AJ.

The thing that I love is this used to be a foursome, Bill.

And Cooper was a part of it.

And these guys played it.

We didn't have any instances of like, man, we'd love to see these guys head to head.

They played each other over and over and over again.

They're all incredibly competitive players.

That's what's really fun about.

It is like if you get a top three pick, it's a legitimate possibility that all three of the teams in the top three could come away being like yeah, we hit a home run.

Peterson had one of the best high school tape everything that I've ever seen.

And he has now become the polarizing guy of this whole process for a variety of reasons which I think we have to dive into, because this is why we're doing this now.

And I watched the whole game last night.

I'm studying everything he's doing.

Um, Compared to the high school tape, he doesn't seem like the same guy.

Like wherever you stand on, we talked a little on Sunday about there's a competitiveness question.

And I think this is the one thing as I get older and I studied these drafts the competitiveness has to be the number one thing, even beyond the athleticism and talent and uniqueness.

Like, do you actually give a shit?

Seems to be the most important quality, which AJ has.

Like.

I don't know what his ceiling is going to be, but you can just tell, like he he, when he's going to go to the pros, he'll play as many minutes as it takes.

And now Peterson, there's so many theories on this.

And I think we have to talk about it because he doesn't look like the high school guy.

He looks 20 pounds heavier.

He doesn't seem as explosive.

And you can't say he's 100 hurt, because if you watch the first like five, six minutes of that game yesterday against Houston, I thought some of the stuff he was doing defensively was like high high, high end.

The way he was moving around screens and picks and sticking with guys.

I was like, this guy doesn't seem hurt to me.

And then in the second half of the game, he started to look like he was 30 years old.

And I just don't understand it.

It seems like his body tires out.

Tate, if you had a theory I know Kyle has one, but if you had a theory on what's going on, what is it?

Because everybody's been trying everything.

Well, I talked to his dad at the McDonald's All-American game and I do feel like the dad, Daryl Peterson, is obviously involved in the process.

I do think that there is kind of a two-horse race that's happening as far as perception versus reality, and they feel very content.

Also, you throw in Matz, who's his agent, Matsubara. who is an Adidas guy.

And there's just a lot of smoke.

And I'm not sure there is a fire, but it's a lot of fog if it's not smoke.

And it's very hard to read between the lines as to what they're trying to do.

I think that the AJ matchup in that first half where he has 18 points does it so methodically easy.

You're just like, wow, this guy is the guy.

He is the number one pick.

There's no doubt about it.

Then he sits out in the second half.

And that sort of is the story of Peterson this season.

It's like, just when you get there and you're like, oh, I understand.

I see the vision.

I saw him in person against North Carolina against Caleb Wilson.

Caleb played great.

Peterson played Gabe.

He had like the quietest 22 point performance you've ever seen, but it's just so easy and smooth for him.

Now I do buy into the injuries.

I don't quite buy into the, you know, him being able to dictate his time.

And on Monday night, that was the first time I saw bill self actually coaching him and And he kind of fit into the game.

Like it was the first time that it wasn't like okay Darren, you do whatever you want and we'll fit around you.

It was like, no, we're going to play how we've been playing without you.

And you're going to play off the ball and you fit in with us.

And I actually was encouraged that he fit in and he ended up hitting a huge three late in that game kind of sealed the game for Kansas.

So that was encouraging to see that he can do both things, right?

He can be a one or he can be off the ball and fit into a team setting.

But yeah, there's just a lot of conspiracy.

I think some of the stuff that's been speculation has been incorrect.

But again, nobody really knows except for Darren and his dad and his agent.

So we all kind of sit here and wonder what's going on there.

But as far as his competitive fire, he's very competitive.

He wants to be the number one pick.

And I think that's one thing that I feel like has been really incorrect when it comes to people talking about him.

Well, I mean, I'm sure that's true, but we also haven't totally seen it, right?

Like, if he wants to be the number one pick, I don't know if this is the way to go about it.

And there's a million conspiracy theories we could do, Kyle, here.

Like we could do the.

He got a big NIL deal and he was supposed to play 26 games to get all the money, but he's not healthy enough to be 100 for all those games, so he's kind of pacing himself.

There's that.

There's actually something medically wrong with him, and they're not being honest about it.

Or...

An interesting theory because we've all played pickup basketball in our lives.

His demeanor is the guy that's like I'm out here to sweat a little bit and run back and forth, but I don't really care about the game that much.

He's the actual pro at the run.

He's like, I'll turn it on when I want to.

I know I'm the best guy in the game.

If we actually need me, I'll be here, but I'm really just going to kind of run up and down and try not to get hurt, which I've never seen somebody do as an audition to be the number one pick in an NBA draft.

What's your theory, Kyle?

I would say the dude that comes down from lifting for like a game.

After all, the real hoopers have been running for like an hour and a half and he kind of glides and you're like come on, man.

It's been picked apart.

I mean the photo that got tweeted of him incorrectly weighed in or like he was checking into the game.

It's just gotten ridiculous.

And I was going to say Tate, you said something.

You said a lot of interesting things there that I think we should go through.

But the first thing that I think you said and this is the entry point I think that's the most interesting, that court's conspiracy bill, in my opinion, which is the idea that they are trying to do something here.

Which is like, and I think that runs counter to the idea of like.

Is it about being the number one pick?

Or is it about a destination?

Because that's a factor with some of these teams at the top.

Because it's, well, let's just start there.

I mean, do you think that it's, is there value in the pride of being the number one pick?

Because I think the money will even itself out in terms of his deals and things like that.

Because that is kind of the starting point for me.

Yeah, the one thing, I've heard so many different theories.

And, by the way, this is one of those things that everybody is talking about in NBA circles, but a lot of it hasn't drifted out into the podcast yet.

But I think it's about to start, because we love nothing more on podcasts than to just pass along things we've heard.

The dad's a big part of this.

And the theory that he wants to go to a team that doesn't have a star yet, and they're kind of.

We haven't really seen anyone do this in a while of.

It's almost like the football strategy of.

It's like what Eli Manning did.

It's like what John Elway did.

I don't want to go there.

I'd rather go here.

We've never really seen an NBA top five guy do that.

And I wonder if he's going to be the first where he's like, actually, I want to go to Brooklyn.

They don't really have a face.

I'd like to go there.

That's the team I want to go to.

It's like, what about Indiana?

Nah, I don't think so.

You have Tyrese Halliburton there.

What about Sacramento?

You don't have a face in Sacramento.

That's interesting.

I wonder if that's a piece of it.

But again, this is all conspiracy theory stuff.

That's why, if you're cutting out clips from this and putting it online, we're just presenting theories.

I don't know what the truth is.

Don't aggregate him.

There's no string connecting them.

We're just putting the pictures on the board and you guys can connect them however you want.

Here's the only thing we know for sure is if you watch the guy in the high school, the best games and there's been really good clips of like here are the best best high school slash a anytime.

He went against somebody awesome and you watch him in those games.

It's not the guy we're watching in Kansas.

It's just not.

He's going to the basket in a way different way.

He's more competitive.

He's more vocal.

I don't know.

Is it possible, Tate, that there's some pressure stuff with him too?

Because some of his quotes have been weird.

He had this quote a couple days ago.

He described himself.

He was like, I don't really know what's going on with social media.

He's like, I'm an antisocial loner.

Was the quote.

And it's like okay, we've seen that work with Kawhi, you know, and that might just be his personality.

He might be a Kawhi type, but that also did not totally seem like his personality in high school.

So there's more going on here.

It definitely is.

It's also strange.

Like, if you're trying to sell yourself, like you said, to be the franchise guy, the face of the franchise, saying I'm an antisocial loner, is it really the best sales pitch for that?

Unless you are Kawhi Leonard.

And even then you have people that kind of pick apart Kawhi and say that he doesn't do enough to be kind of the face of the franchise.

And I do feel like with Peterson, it does feel like there's a lack of joy that is happening right now with the way that he's playing.

And maybe that is a bit of the frustration of all the outside noise and a lot of speculative talk and it doesn't feel like he has really any say.

This is the first time we've heard him speak.

Myron metcalf Went there, did a nice reported piece and got some actual quotes from Darren Peterson.

That's the first time we've heard Peterson speak.

Other than that, it's been Bill Self speaking about the situation.

Rumblings of like Adidas putting out different graphics being like the obvious choice for number one pick right.

But it's never been Darren Peterson saying anything.

So it's the first time we've heard from him.

I do hope that he's doing okay because again, when all the outside noise is around you it can kind of temper and change who you are a little bit as a person.

And I know that's a tough kind of place to be in.

But you mentioned it.

They were both in Brooklyn there, AJ and Darren.

And, you know, Brad Stevens is in the building.

You know, all the different GMs are there watching them in the practice.

And it felt like they were happy to be in Brooklyn.

And I do feel like maybe there could be a little bit of a ploy there for them to want to be with the Brooklyn Nets.

So if there was any sort of If I want to buy in and maybe take a bite of the conspiracy pie there, Brooklyn would be one for those two guys.

Yeah, if we were doing conspiracy destinations, it would be Peterson, Brooklyn, and AJ in Utah.

Yes.

Who's been probably helping out funding some of his.

They've been funding his career since he was in 10th grade.

Yeah, at this point.

Well, so...

I mean, these kids are so young.

I have to mention this as a parent of a 20-year-old and 18-year-old who's watched my kids go through so many different changes and evolutions and up and downs.

And I can't imagine having a kid in the middle of this process.

Just being dissected like this is nuts.

With that said, we have to dissect it because this is one of those.

You're getting fired if you get this wrong, drafts right.

You have the number one pick.

DeBansa, let me give you this stat.

I nerded it up today.

I was checking all this different stuff.

First of all, he's averaging 24, 7, and 5 in 40-minute college games.

And he's getting better as the year went along.

I actually think his last few games, some of the stuff he's doing is stuff he wasn't doing as comfortably two months ago.

There's only three players, ever freshman or sophomore who have averaged 24, 6 and 4 in a college season.

And A.J. right now is one of the three.

The other two are Larry Bird and Pete Maravich.

Oh, good company.

That seems relevant.

That was Bird's second Indiana State season.

Danny Ainge just passed out as you said that.

I know.

Squirting himself with a spray bottle.

This is also crazy.

Boozer who's averaging 23, 10 and four, who's really a good passer.

And I can't wait to talk about him.

Um.

The only freshmen sophomore ever to average 22, 10 and four in a college season are him and Larry bird.

So when you talk about like, which draft is better, last year's top four, this year's top four and flag certainly would be in the mix with these guys.

And I can nipple, you know, has been awesome.

And I think I love Harper and I love edge comb.

Like I love that trap.

The ceiling.

Would you say Kyle, like a whiff higher with this 26 class from a superstar standpoint?

Or would you say it's even uh, this one as opposed to last year?

Yeah.

I think this one's higher.

But the cluster at the top is really good.

I mean, gosh, I wanted to say this because I know the three of us have this in common.

From USA Basketball.

This is one of the most incredible cluster of players coming into the system at the same time.

AJ will have a choice, I think, for which he's been playing for Team USA.

He played for, I forget, he played for, anyway.

And then Edgecombe, obviously, is not in that group.

But on that front, they're really good.

Are we done with the basketball side of Darren?

There were a couple of the things I wanted to add.

No, I just wanted to set the stage for everybody.

We're talking about three guys, that Peterson.

From an on-paper standpoint, It's just the best guard prospect we've probably had this century, since we're going back to like Vince Carter.

I just don't think we've had somebody who has tools like him.

From what we saw in the high school stuff.

We haven't seen it in Kansas.

Yeah.

The band says like, I don't like, he just seems like he's 29 years old.

And then and then boozer um, I just there's any team that he goes to, he'll be able to figure it out and fit in and be good.

You can't be like, oh, if he goes there, that'll suck.

Like he'll be fine.

But Peterson, we just don't see guards like this that are this good and can just get to 25 points without breaking a sweat.

What else has impressed you just with the positive stuff in Kansas?

I wanted to affirm what Tate was saying about him being and I think that the Adidas thing has kind of played into it where a lot of the guys are on the Nike circuit.

And Darren was always kind of to the side on the Adidas thing.

He was like never, like he wasn't at the hoop summit and they were all there.

And it was like, well, this isn't Peterson's not here.

So we're not getting a perfect read on this, but I've always gotten the impression.

I think he's got even has like a Michael Myers tattoo.

So he thinks of himself as this stoic, quiet kid working out.

He sought out one of the best like shooting player development workout guys when he was in high school.

That's what he's about and it seems like this is probably really all deeply uncomfortable for him.

And speaking to like the high school part of it, like you were talking about um, everything i got, everything that everybody i've talked to has affirmed that that that's what he's about, and the high school tape is very different because i wrote this down, Peterson.

The flow of the way that people have thought about him was he was a downhill, crazy athletic, explosive guard.

And people were like if he settles for threes it's not a super win, but it's more of a win than him getting into the paint.

And in college, you've seen it.

The clips really support it.

He doesn't have the burst.

He doesn't have the explosiveness.

We saw little instances of it, like in the first half against BYU.

And he just was like, I'm going to dunk on the whole frigging team.

And he did.

But this is kind of I wrote this down his shot distribution.

Only 14 of his shots right now are at the rim and almost 41 are above the break from three.

So he's playing like a movement dribble shooter right now when that is not who he is.

He's like a ball screen operator who can score at all three levels.

And he's still crazy, effective, efficient.

It's just like interfacing it with Kansas hasn't been perfectly seamless and an interesting, interesting Kansas is still really good.

So if that ever clicks into place, they're going to be good.

So I just think it's been really bumpy, but he's still been a pretty remarkable shot maker.

One of the more talented shot makers I've ever seen in college, to be honest with you.

That college profile you're mentioning.

That ties into what we said before about the guy playing pickup and just kind of going back and forth and taking shots and not not really trying to not get hurt basically.

Um, but that's what jumps out.

If you go back and you watch his high school stuff Tate, this guy's like a Rose Westbrook, kind of like going to the rim, getting into the paint, bouncing off people.

Combined with the shooting.

And the shooting worst case scenario.

This guy is going to be like.

He'll be the best fourth guy in a starting five of all.

You know, just somebody that you can't leave him open.

He'll be fine.

And he can defend.

But there's the ceiling of this is just so much higher.

Yeah.

Is there another guard you can remember since you've been following college basketball that has more skills than him?

I was going to say Rose, to me it's like, but Rose was so violent to the basket that it's just such a different like he was so demonstrative and kind of sending the message.

And so was John Wall, where they were just like, watch this.

You know what I mean?

You've never, and Westbrook too, right?

It's like, well, here's what I do as a guard.

I am going to be a different type of point guard than you've ever seen before.

And Darren seems like, you know, there's the deep end of the pool and he's kind of in the shallow end and he's just kind of like walking around.

You know, we're just like hey, are you gonna dive in down there?

Like we want you to dive in and see what you can do.

Um, and let's really get into this.

And i do feel like this is the first time we've seen bill self push him uh, he had a three in that game and bill self kind of like finally got on him to get back on defense.

And peterson looked at the bench like did he just say something to me?

Like he almost gave him a little bit, he went to go take me out and then he was like oh, i can't say that right now yeah yeah, and to me like that will be the best thing to happen to peterson, where it's like there's no tiptoeing around anymore, like you're in the, you're in the midst of this, you're already in kind of the, the troubled waters, let's go ahead and swim.

Uh, there's time to do this and there's times not to do this.

But I mean, Embiid had the same agent and Embiid was trying to get talked out of playing in the NCAA tournament right,

So it's not like Bill Self hasn't dealt with this Adidas situation before.

I think he does know how to handle it.

And Peterson.

As far as the other guards that come to mind, he is unique and very special in his own way.

But I do think that he has more of a gear to get to as far as getting to the rim and getting downhill.

No question.

Yeah, those stats that Kyle was talking about.

It's like let's just go ahead and show that to everybody.

Also, he's playing off guard right now.

I think he can be a one at the next level.

Council is the one for this team right now.

So he's almost playing out of position too, which is another encouraging sign, I guess, because you're like hey, we can use him in different ways.

Yeah, it's interesting when they'll get defensive rebounds.

You would think he would always be the one they look for to get the ball.

But this team's so loaded.

A lot of the times they get a rebound and he just kind of jogs up the court like he knows they don't need him.

And it's a really fun team to watch.

In a weird way, when he's not on the court, it seems like that lineup is almost like...

I don't want to say better, but it's just like they really let loose when he's out.

And then when he's in there, they're constantly trying to shoehorn and figure out what he is and what he's doing.

They're all looking at him out of the side of their eye like does Darren want the ball, this possession?

They're like, do we run our offense or do we give Darren the ball?

It does feel like that.

Yeah, and sometimes he'll just be like, I'm just going to hang out over here, guys.

Go to the corner.

You nailed it, though.

I think what's interesting about this situation?

Something really interesting about his skill set, which is he can play as a movement shooter and be a dominant pick and roll guy, which is that is not common.

You mentioned Russell Westbrook.

If Russell Westbrook could shoot like Darren Peterson, he would have been like a top 10 all time player.

Like I'm not even joking.

He's like right now he is 47% on catch and shoot threes and he's shot a decent amount of them.

His mid range touch is crazy.

I noted this because I'd watched a lot of clips of him in a row.

His shots go through the middle of the basket.

This guy has a beautiful arc on his shot.

It's just, and he had a couple of plays against Steven DeBansa where he was just like I'm going to make this crazy crazy, contested shot in your face.

There's a little Ann Edwards in there.

I mean, he's, he's an interesting, he's explosive.

Like Tate was saying, but very, very skilled.

The stoic thing.

We've seen stoic guys.

That's fine.

I'm not worried about that.

But the cramps part, and trying to figure out what's real and not real what would you have been able to find out about that kyle anything interesting the term full body cramps was sent my way i asked around about that that's like when you get in mexico and you get food poisoning i don't know i got montezuma's yeah full body cramps i'm pooping every hour i kind of took that as i don't Maybe there's been cramping in a couple areas and we rounded up to that term because apparently if it's actual full body cramps, that's like a serious medical thing.

I think it's probably there's been some cramps.

I don't know if maybe you get into the weeds of like endocrinology, guiding medical people on staff and things like that.

And I'm not qualified to do that, obviously.

But I think it's probably contributed to a lot of discomfort for him personally, too.

So you just mix that up into a big stew.

And Bill Self has had to masterfully kind of prod this from a lot of different directions.

And we've gone through the evolution of him being extremely defensive to coming at it and trying to motivate him in indirect ways, I think.

It just kind of strikes me like the missing variable is like we've kind of traced what it is.

And I kind of feel like there's some kind of motivation.

That's where I'm landing at.

And I think that's why I thought it was interesting that you said that first, Tate.

Because it's like medically, can we figure out what's going on with him?

No, but we can kind of deduct what his motivation might be.

And I kind of think that might be what it is.

Yeah, that's why I said on the podcast Sunday night like that's the thing that scares me is if it's some sort of competitiveness question.

That's when my red flags go up.

If he's got hamstring cramps or they're trying, you know maybe, maybe he's this generation's version of Kevin Johnson on the Phoenix suns who just could never.

He pulls hamstring every year.

They can never figure it out.

But if it's a competitiveness piece, I don't know.

I we're going to take a break and I want to go through some of the drafts where we've had the hardest trouble figuring out stuff.

And I think the history of the draft is instructive of that.

And then we got to talk about AJ and Boozer a little more too.

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Learn more at AudiUSA.com. so i went through the last uh basically everything in the 21st century trying to figure out the toughest number one pick calls and i'm not talking about like the research anthony bennett like we don't we kind of don't know who the number one pick is i'm talking about when there was ceiling and basement stuff and trying to navigate the worst case scenario is pretty bad the best case scenario of getting this guy is this and we have to talk about this so I think Wiseman, even though he didn't go first in 2020, was a good one for this.

We just had no, what did he play, three college games?

He was dominant the year before.

There was no March Madness.

They couldn't interview him.

And it was COVID season.

But there was a scenario where this guy was the next dominant center, at least, maybe what Dern is for Detroit right now, a better version of that, like a better passing version of Duren.

And it was like, shit, I can't pass that up.

Fultz in 2017 was a good one because his team wasn't winning ever.

And we just kind of penciled him into number one in December.

And that's where we all decided.

And then there was some Tatum buzz building and some Lonzo buzz building and Fultz's team never won.

So that's two.

Wasn't, wasn't there Intel about Fultz that was similar, like keeps to himself.

He's a little uncomfortable.

Like, Just, just bringing that out.

Yeah.

And there was uh, there was one team that he interviewed with where he asked about if they had Chick-fil-A in the city and they said that we don't have Chick-fil-A.

And he was like visibly bummed out and they were like that's a true story.

Uh, Ben Simmons 2016.

Uh Now, he played 33 games for LSU that year but kind of punted his life the entire time and did a documentary about it.

Yeah.

The team, the team wasn't good.

He was doing that documentary and there were like red flags you know as good of an athlete as he was.

There was some stuff that was like what's going on with this guy?

And beat in 2015.

This was all health related.

Cause he would have been the number one pick that year.

He gets hurt.

And then it becomes a question of, well, can we still take them first when he has this foot injury?

And he goes third.

Kyrie is my biggest miss of the 21st century with the draft.

2010.

Played 10 games for Duke.

And I think I thought maybe it was Derek Williams.

I forget who I had.

I was like, you can't take Kyrie.

We don't even know what he is.

And this is where I think is the most instructive for Peterson.

I want to circle back on that.

Odin in 2007. were a franchise center, but kept getting hurt, had some knee stuff already.

And then 04 with Dwight Howard versus Okafor, where one guy's in college winning the title.

The other guy's just playing in high school in the South.

How do we even know?

The Kyrie thing is the interesting one, because the Kyrie people were adamant this guy was the best guy in the draft.

Throw away the Duke season, whatever.

And the high school tapes kind of went out and Kyrie was as good as advertised.

And I wonder, Tate, does that just happen with Peterson here?

We've had these college years that have thrown us off the scent with guys.

Rondo is probably the most famous one, where Rondo, where he was, versus where he landed outside the lottery and then became

But there's been guys that have just done damage to themselves in one college year.

Is that what's happening here?

I do feel like Kyrie is a good one, because Kyrie had this unique elite skill which was finishing around the rim.

And I think everybody was so confused and confounded by the fact that he was able to finish at such a high level with both hands at the size that he was at.

So everyone's like, there's no way this translates.

And then you start kind of digging deeper and you're like, well, Rod Strickland's his godfather.

You know, he's got a kind of all this basketball acumen behind him.

And then everyone's, you know, sort of talks themselves into it.

And you know you got all these different basketball people that are like.

You know, it's a different guy, different story.

And that's sort of what Peterson has behind him.

It's like every time you want to poke a little bit of a hole in it.

There's people that come to you know kind of his bat quickly to be like no, this is a different type of talent that we have here.

And I think Wiggins was a little bit weird, too.

Right.

There was a lot of stuff with Wiggins where it was just like are we sure this guy can be a franchise guy?

He's a little bit off.

You know, I'm not really sure what we do with him.

So maybe, you know, that could be another example.

Right.

Where he's just a supreme talent, but not quite the face of the franchise.

Mr. Personality that you would suspect is.

AJ is that guy.

And that's why like, if you're doing like kind of the sales pitch, like AJ is going to do a lot better pitching himself as sort of like, I'll be the spokesman.

I'll do this.

I'll do that.

Darren doesn't have that mentality but as far as natural knack and natural ability, I feel like Kyrie John, what like that era of guards, you know, from like 2008 to 2011.

Darren Peterson is kind of of that ilk of guys.

And he's very special in that sense.

Yeah Kyle, it feels like Peterson like when you read about the old drafts and it's like wow, all those teams passed on Kobe.

And then, as the years passed, people were like I wanted to take him and Calipari talked us out of it.

Team by team, everybody, there's half the people now are like, no, no, I wanted to take him.

The reality is he fell to 13.

And now it seems crazy, right?

And we've had this a bunch of times with guys where Guy falls out of the top five into the top 10 13 range.

Donovan Mitchell was a really good one.

I was like, why is... He's really not going to go into the top 10?

This guy's clearly good.

What's happening here?

And then everybody feels stupid.

I think the problem with the Peterson thing is this has a chance to make people feel all-time stupid.

If you get thrown off the scent by this weird college season he's having...

But this guy basically becomes Kobe crossed with Derrick Rose as a pro.

And you're like, yeah, I didn't take him.

And then it's like, guess where you're going to end up?

On NBA TV or doing the podcast with us.

And that's the issue, right?

I could say something blasphemous probably here.

I think he's a more talented shooter than Kobe was at the same age.

I don't really.

I think that's probably true.

Uh yeah it's, it's yeah, and i think that uh, that's what makes it like i don't doubt his.

I don't doubt his skill level at all.

In the same way, like i, the thing that maybe potentially that we could look down the road is, like maybe this is a sign of complications with him in terms of how he interacts with teams or contract type things or destinations.

Like he's trying to move on, you know, from the xyz destination quickly.

Like i could see us like wringing our hands about those types of things.

Like at the deadline, it's like, oh, he's annoyed again.

Like maybe this is a sign of those types of things.

But you mentioned like over the years, it's like there's a lot of different categories for those.

I don't know that they all fit in one box.

It's like there's structural things that we didn't see.

Like there's the micro fracture thing that just a lot of guys fell prey to.

Like Odin was one.

I think Odin I've said this over and over again have been good.

I don't think he was a bus, i just think his, his body just couldn't do it.

He was kind of in the same buoy kind of category.

And then there's the trends that like in the early 2000s with the dirk thing, where people were chasing that and overlooking obvious talent like paul pierce and things like that.

And then there was just the fog of lack of information.

Like a kobe bryant would not happen today because we have access to high school footage.

There's no vhs's, there's no, i have them, you don't it's.

Everybody has access to all the information.

So this one just feels a little bit more of a um, it's hazy in the sense of we're just trying to look into the, the will hunting.

Like no one can know the depths of darren peterson uh, like how can we know?

There's a lot of things that i think teams are going to be interviewing and trying to find out about him personally and making a call on that are hard for.

I think Edwards was a good example of learning from history, where it's like you know what?

This guy's really good.

Let's just take him.

You know, this guy, he's got the competitiveness.

He's got the athleticism.

His teammates also loved him.

I was at the Maui Invitational and Georgia was terrible, but his teammates were like, we love Ant.

Ant's awesome.

Everybody loves Ant.

I told Tate this, I think.

I talked to Tom Crean, his college coach, last spring.

And I was like, what was the story with that?

What was it with Ant?

And he was like, Ant had never watched basketball.

He said he liked football because he had just watched football more.

He's like, he literally just had never watched film and we would talk about it.

And he, and eventually you can see it clear as day the NBA.

He started watching the NBA and he's so phenomenally talented that he figured it out.

Cause that was a weird one to figure it out.

Cause it was just like, what's going on with this dude?

Does he care?

Yeah.

And plus they weren't able to work out people in person in the eighties or nineties.

Wiseman goes before Edwards.

Like they just screw that up.

I promise you whatever draft it was, they would have screwed it up.

Well, I promised you a hot take.

I think AJ has to be the first pick.

That's where I've landed.

I wasn't there in November, December, and I wasn't even totally there in January.

I think it would be insane not to take him first.

This is a sure thing.

And the upside that you could potentially have with Peterson this chance that he might, you basically might be this, this best car, best guard of the last 20 years type of potential versus what we know we're going to get with AJ.

I can't believe some of the stuff he's doing that.

Like some of the offensive stuff he's doing is like high level stuff.

Jason Tatum couldn't do until like year five.

Like, He, one of the things I like that he does, he does that.

They'll like space out for him, which they don't really do in college, where he's basically doing like a foul line post up on somebody.

He'll back somebody down.

And the cool thing is he doesn't just have one move off this post up.

He can, he can do the turnaround to the left.

He can do a turnaround, follow it to the other side, or he can do a spin, go to the basket.

And he can spin in the basket on either side.

So he basically has four options from this one spot on the court.

He's 19 years old.

Nobody should be able to do this.

Not to mention he's the best athlete in every game he's in.

He rebounds.

He plays defense.

He wants to be out there competing.

I sound like I'm getting paid off by the BYU Utah crew.

I'm not.

I just think like, I don't know how you pass on him.

I can't believe he's an underdog to go number one.

I think this is crazy.

He has to be the number one pick.

That's my take.

Tate, your thoughts.

I think if Brad Stevens had the number one pick, he would take AJ.

And I observed that at the McDonald's game and how much he was watching AJ intently, not just on the basketball court but how he was kind of maneuvering around the room, how he was talking to people.

Obviously he's a Brockton Massachusetts kid, so there's a little bit of a connective tissue there to the Boston Celtics.

But even then I think the Celtics were like You know hey, if we end up in this lottery situation like what is AJ?

Does he fit in our world?

It just felt strange to me.

And I was observing Brad in that room and how he was watching AJ.

And that stood out to me.

Obviously, like you said, Utah's in the bag for this kid.

They want him desperately.

And if they have the number one pick, there's no doubt in my mind that they would take AJ number one.

I don't think that Peterson would be upset if that were to happen.

If it was a Utah situation, right?

He'd just be like, okay, that's their guy.

I go where I go.

I'm okay with that.

But when you watch AJ leads college basketball and scoring, I feel like he's not talked about enough.

Richie Saunders goes down with the torn ACL.

He's going to get even more of a shot diet.

He's going to get even more usage.

So he's going to take it up even more to a different level.

Um, so it's like, if you haven't watched, uh, go, go check him out now.

And honestly, one of my favorite matchups this season uh, you know, outside of the Peterson matchup was when they had an exhibition game.

It was BYU, North Carolina, Caleb Wilson versus AJ.

And these are two guys that are very competitive that took it very personally.

And they went at each other pretty hard for an exhibition game.

And that fired me up, you know what I mean?

Like this game doesn't really matter, but they played that like a tournament game.

So as far as the makeup, you need someone that wants to be the number one pick.

That was the whole thing with Paolo, right?

You meet Chet, you meet Jabari, you meet Paolo.

There's one guy in that group that believes internally he should be the number one pick.

That was Paolo.

Chet might say it, but I don't think he believed it.

And Jabari definitely didn't want a piece of it, right?

So take the guy that wants to be number one.

AJ wants to be number one.

That's a part of his whole makeup and the way he's pitched himself to everybody.

So I think that plays a big role too.

And you, you want an elite wing.

He's an elite wing.

He's right there in front of us.

And is this three, four, I think he gives you all this flexibility.

I like that.

They can, he can actually like run offense already.

We'll see if he can do that on the NBA level.

But I think even in the since I saw him beginning of the season versus now, I see like a difference already.

And that's even what happened with Cooper Flagg on Dallas this year, where if you watched him in the first week of the season versus now, he's like a completely different guy.

And then if you look at the Tankapalooza teams, where you have the Kings Indianapolis, the Nets Washington Utah, the Hawks Dallas Memphis, he fits in with all the teams and is like a truly terrifying Indiana Pacer.

Oh man, they all want to go to the Pacers.

That's the nightmare scenario for the East is, AJ goes to the Indiana Pacers and you just put him with Hal Burton and Siakam and all those dudes.

Kyle, have you noticed, especially like the last, I don't know two, two and a half weeks AJ, just going up a level?

Cause it seems like now like he's playing tonight unfortunately, but as we're taping this for the game, he just seems like he's a 38 now every game.

That's what we're heading.

I mean, yeah.

Huge usage.

I mean, I think he's pushing like 33% usage.

Like that number might even be higher since Richie went out.

Richie might need to be a player too.

I thought it was 37 when I just looked.

Yeah.

I mean, it's insane.

But I mean yeah, I mean The questions that I've had about him are, you know, he's obviously a really talented isolation score.

You mentioned him.

You could make a highlight reel that's like five minutes long of him just dribbling with his left hand to like 14 feet, hitting the guy, and just shooting that little shot.

I've wanted to see him, over the course of the season, like as teams like load on him doing that, for him to like make those little passes to KB Kata, who's their big guys, really athletic.

Just those are the areas where he can kind of expand.

But I think The arc of this has been interesting for me is when I initially watched him I was like oh, this guy's like an incendiary athlete.

It's like, I don't know that that is the intrinsic thing that's interesting about him as an athlete.

I think his balance and he has like really interesting kind of herky-jerky pace in the paint that at times will sort of like rouse thoughts of like there's a little bit of Shay in there.

Like he's got some weird, odd footwork when he gets around the basket.

I personally think that that is the thing that he's going to be able to lean into and make himself like a maddeningly tough to deal with score.

Uh, he wants to dunk on everybody.

I love that.

Like at all times, um, You mentioned the teams.

I think this is the most interesting thing.

So let's say the Hawks end up with that pick and AJ's on the board.

If they still you know, not that you would make any decision based on, like Kuminga, but they're going to have such an interesting cluster of six eight six, nine guys.

Ball boy.

It's.

I've gotten the impression that, from talking to people close to Darren, that Darren is more likely to say I'm interested in being the full-on brain of this team.

I don't really want to play with another superstar.

I want to be the center of the universe.

Whereas AJ, people that know them both have told me that AJ is probably more likely to fit in with an Indiana, which is interesting because AJ he likes to have the ball.

And is he willing to be?

Well, one of the ironies here is if he goes to Utah and he's with marketing and and triple J next year, that's kind of like the perfect front line.

I love that fit for, I like the fit for him anywhere.

I just take, he can face up and go to the basket left or right.

Like I'm amazed that he can go left as easy as he does already.

He's got a floater already.

Um, I mentioned the post up stuff where he can.

He can swing either way in the turnaround or go to the basket.

And I don't mind his three pointer either.

You know, I think we'll see when you move it back to two and a half feet if it's the same, but he seems pretty comfortable um doing it.

He's competitive as hell.

The defense is there.

He rebounds in traffic.

I don't know what he's missing.

I don't really.

And I don't really understand how this is a debate when you have the other guy that we don't even know what's going on with him.

And I get it.

You could get seduced by the high school things.

But if my job's on the line, I'm just I'm not risking it when this guy's a sure thing.

And I think he's a sure thing.

Yeah, the only two knocks that I would have on AJ are very fixable at the next level, which is his handle, which can be a little loose at times.

But we're also not asking him to, you know, specifically initiate offense all the time.

He can, you know, rip and run.

He's 16 also.

You gotta be fair.

Yeah, true.

Yeah, comparing him to other 16 guys, he's got an elite handle.

But again, you know, for what he's trying to do with his shot creation, that's one knock.

And then help side defense, which I just feel like is a, is a team kind of issue that, like team defense is going to solve that at the next level, where it's like Hey, you know, you can't be this lapsed on certain possessions and certain moments.

And he does have a little bit of, but again, he's 19 years old.

You can write both of those off.

So i feel like the only two knocks are two things that are going to be fixed at the next level and adjusted at the next level.

And as far as, like someone who really wants to like be better and be in the conversation and be a part of kind of like a bigger growth you know potential i just feel like he is that guy.

He's going to be in the dunk contest you know what i mean, like when you're just an nba and you're a business like This is a guy that's going to sign up and agree to do all this stuff and want to be a part of the show.

And like that, like this is show business at some level.

The business is good.

The show is good.

And like you said, that's why it's a shirt thing.

Well, that's the funny thing is the way it was setting up for him even when he went to Utah to play basketball in high school, and it just seemed like he was making decisions for money only.

The way it's played out with Peterson this year is kind of what I thought was going to happen with AJ, where it was like Oh, we see, we knew all these red flags.

It's almost like they, they switch bodies.

I just think, listen, Peterson can, can flip this.

But right now, in February 24th, I just think it's insane that AJ wouldn't be like the hands down number one pick.

With what we've seen,

And especially that he's getting better boozer.

We didn't even mention Boozer.

Boozer 3.

I really like Caleb Wilson.

I'm not just sucking up to Tate.

I know he's going to be a good NBA player.

He can't really shoot, but he does so many other good things.

We just know he's going to go in the pros.

He's so good around the basket.

And then if he adds a shot and he adds a little 15-footer, it's a bonus.

But the competitiveness is there.

I just really like him.

Boozer, though, I don't know how he falls lower than third.

Because it's like, oh, which guy could fall out of the top three?

I think this will be the one, two, three in some order.

The Boozer piece, it's been funny.

Now, are people just dinging him, Kyle?

Because it's a Duke thing.

And this is what we do with Duke guys.

Where it's like, there's a lot of yeah buts with Cam Boozer.

And I don't really understand it.

Because from what I see, the dude...

Every game gets his stats.

He's always around the rim.

He hustles.

He really gives a shit.

He's a good passer.

I wish he was two inches taller.

He's not.

Maybe there's an athleticism piece that's 90 there, not 100, but just there's no way.

He's not going to be a good pro.

I think people are misidentifying his player type in a way, when they see him they're like okay bully bully, college four or five.

They're like, he's, you know, Jared Selinger, like, you know, Tyler is a good one.

Yeah.

But that it's not the case with him.

Like he's extremely multifaceted.

I mean, he's his shot has really, really improved.

I mean, he's not going to be like making like movement threes, but his set set three is really good.

I thought that Michigan game.

I'm sure you watch that one was a really interesting game of him going up against like an NBA sized front court.

And he just big boy them.

And he was playing out front.

He, to me, maybe doesn't have the wow factor of the.

It's a little bit of a quieter, winning production, multifacetedness kind of a thing that he has going on where.

I personally think and I've said this from the beginning when I was really trying to think of a comp for him.

I think that he's a cross between a Kevin Love type and like an Al Horford.

Whereas he may not hit the highest highs of the shot, making brilliance and the things like AJ and Darren might.

But I think he's a guy that's gonna win and just win for like over a decade.

And I think if you look at the types of teams that are in the lottery, you plug him into Washington, Washington's instantly going to become like a play in level team maybe, or more.

I think Charlotte was my dream for him, but that's not going to happen.

They're too good.

New Orleans, Brooklyn, Indiana is the one you put him next to next year.

He's going to be.

He will be ready to roll next year.

Fan friends this like he's going to be ready to roll immediately.

So he's, he could help every team.

Yeah.

I think he's an instant like 16 and eight guy in the pros.

And a lot of it will depend on who is he, who's the five that he's playing.

Like Washington's really fun.

Cause he'd get to play with SAR and there's a little inside outside action with them, with SAR as like the three point shooter but rim protector and then boozer doing all the other stuff.

Tate, I know this is just killing you that we're talking about a Duke guy for this long.

But can you make the glass half empty case for him or no?

I mean, look, it would be the safe, not sexy pick.

But at the same time, I got to interact with Cam and I just came away thoroughly impressed.

I mean, he and Caleb did their interview together with me.

And these are two guys that played on the EYBL circuit together.

He was always the one.

Caleb was always the two.

They were ribbing each other, talking about Duke, North Carolina.

Caleb's like, I can't wait to get at you next year.

Cam's just kind of sitting there like, Hmm.

Yeah, sure.

I'm looking forward to it.

You know, very, you know, just very chill kid.

And he's like, I'm like, what do you like to do in your free time?

He's like, I like to hang out with my girlfriend and play golf.

I'm like, ah, you're, you know, speaking, speaking my language, man.

I like you.

Um, and as far as, like the fundamentals of what he does, plays off two feet, we've you mentioned can nipple earlier like, look how con can nipple has been able to impact the team, impact winning and be so fundamentally sound that he's able to make an impact on a team.

I think, you know, cam has a little bit of that.

Yeah.

I like the Kevin love reference.

I was saying like a Paul Millsap maybe.

And again, these are just like, they're not him with that.

Come on.

I mean, it sounds better.

Yeah.

But I think we're saying better.

Yeah, i mean just like it has some of that.

You know, touch shooting, the basketball.

He's obviously like a modern level, big because he's able to stretch out to the, to the three-point line, which is nice and as far as winning, the guys wanted every single level.

So it's like it.

That's why it's a sure thing to me, and i'm even at the point bill, i'm not even a hater on the kid.

I'm like when you have the volatility of a peterson and you have the aj, does he fit with my team situation?

If, like a team, the spurs or some good team gets thrown up into the front that already has a franchise guy in their opinion, why not take a cam boozer who's only going to be additive right, and can also still get to a higher ceiling, like i?

I feel like there's going to be a situation where maybe teams are going to say why not cam boozer?

And he might even bump up a little bit higher than we suspect.

So that's where i am with him, because when you watch him he just dominates and in the michigan game kind of broke it for me to see him do that against Mara and more as Johnson to one athletic guy, one supersized giant.

And he was able to still handle and manage and get his numbers.

So great passer as well.

We haven't talked about it.

Really good passer.

I wonder if Canippo is going to open up this wave of, where teams just start to value more.

Like that.

Guy's really smart and knows exactly where to go and where to be and what to do on every play, even if he's not involved.

Because that was what we liked about... And we really liked Knipple going into that draft.

I love Knipple.

I got a Knipple jersey.

That's how...

I'm all messed up.

You know what I mean?

I try to forget that he played at Duke.

That's, you know what I mean?

That's what I'm trying to do.

I started texting Kyle about knipple and like January, February during that during that Duke season, like what's going on with this guy?

Who is this?

And he seemed like it was a little Westbrook ish where he was always in like the eight to 16 range in the draft.

And then all of a sudden, by the time we got to the draft, everybody kind of agreed like, oh yeah, that guy's going to be really good.

And then he ends up going forth.

I think the same thing with Boozer.

The more you watch him, he just knows where to go and what to do.

The guy I was thinking about was David West.

For him earlier, David West, not Warriors David West, but like New Orleans, David West.

But a little bigger, but he's just, he's one of those guys that there's a fast break.

And the guy misses the layup.

It's like, oh, he missed it.

And then Boozer's just laying it in.

He's always in the right spot, which I think.

When you think about the smarter teams that are going to be in this draft, like Indiana, that's the kind of guy.

We keep mentioning Indiana, but it's important because that team made the finals last year.

They added Zubats.

They're going to get Halbert back.

And they might get a guy who is just immediately a transformative starter.

And I was thinking about even watching Tatum and Brown the first year they were on the Celtics, their rookie years.

And Jalen's rookie year, it was like, yeah, there's something there.

He's a good athlete.

I could see it.

And it wasn't really until year two that he even really started to look like Jalen Brown and Tatum, the first year where you could tell he was good.

We basically had him in the corner.

Like he was Sam Houser.

Like they didn't run plays for him.

He didn't really know how to initiate offense.

He was a good defender rebounder.

These three guys are so far ahead of where we were.

So why, Kyle, why is that?

Why are the guys, why do they seem further ahead?

Is there, did we improve AAU or what's going on?

Cause this was last year with Cooper too.

Like Cooper comes into the league and he's running an offense at age 18.

Like, I don't really fully understand this.

Oh, I have some like broader kind of theories as to why that is.

I think my biggest theory is just that I think, you know, Yeah.

All right.

Picking the direction I want to go with this.

I mean, I think I've said this on the show before.

I think basketball video, like access to it.

I alluded to it before with the high school thing.

I just think kids have access to quality information earlier and earlier.

And I think that they are learning, you know, I think that they're learning skills that guys had to kind of source in different ways.

You either had the benefit of knowing someone or having a good coach, or just those things have become more available to everyone.

And I think that we're just seeing talent kind of double.

We're seeing talented guys in the league.

Sounds like a preparation thing?

Yeah, I think so.

Advanced metrics across the video and studying what your weaknesses are, and just getting better immediately.

Information about what's a good shot, information about moves.

I think guys emulate efficiently.

I just think those things are cleaned up.

I don't know if Tate has an opinion on this.

This is one of my big theories about basketball in general is that I think that's why kids are better.

Younger is that they can study great earlier.

Overall, I think it's just brought the intelligence of the sport up, in my opinion.

It's like when I had Khan on before I gave him a ride back to his hotel and we did the pod.

I wanted to bring that up, but I didn't feel like I was in on the bit.

I love to hear that.

Khan was saying how he loves the advanced metric stuff and he was like I was looking and I realized like I suck from one of the corners and I was like I do.

And then he basically like all right, I got to work on that corner where you think like 25 years ago, you know Michael, although candy wasn't like Oh, maybe I shouldn't shoot that lefty jump hook.

What are your theories on this tape?

I do think, like i'm with kyle, i think they do get the information right.

We have the kim pom, the torvik, i mean everybody's kind of going and watching their own tape and have people you know helping them break it down at this point.

But i do think this crop of especially us players have all been around each other in the usa basketball system and it's kind of like skateboarding early on right, you started seeing guys do tricks and you're like i'm gonna try that, you know what i mean, or like i'm picking up a little bit of that.

And i do feel like that's what's happened with this group where, like you know, flag the bands to see something that flag is doing to get to his spots.

And then he's initiating it and putting it in his game.

And like, they've all kind of made each other better.

And that's when I was at the McDonald's game, seeing all them.

I was, it was funny to see like Brayden Burries was at Arizona.

Who's great.

He was like watching Darren Peterson do his individual workout.

And it's like, they're all kind of in the same crop with each other.

And not that that's anything different, but I just think in general there's a lot of talent in this.

You know two, three year window and they've all made each other better and they all are very competitive against each other.

So I think Kyle's right as far as being smarter about it.

But I also think like, as one person does something like what Cooper has been able to do, they all are trying to climb that same mountain.

And I think that's really, it's great for USA basketball.

We need a new group to come in and be great.

And I do think that, We have that right now.

Well, that leads me to the second take I was going to unleash on you guys.

This is a test driver.

Think about this next time we could talk about it.

I've talked about age limits for Team USA for the hoops.

26 and under.

That's just our team in 28.

Can't be 27 or over.

And we just built it around ant and flag and basically these draft classes.

And we just have this young fighting machine of dudes that just let's go, let's roll.

And you know I I'm glad Kevin Durant wants to play for team USA for the fifth time, but let's move on.

Let's get some of the younger guys and let's get some young blood.

And I think the experience is so great for them.

I would love to see a team built around all of the guys that we've had basically in the 2020 drafts and just let's do it.

Kate Cunningham, Anthony Edwards, backcourt.

Like that is a, that's a, that's a flag.

The top three from this draft.

Let's bring Caleb Wilson off the bench as a 12th man.

I, I just think that would work.

Hey, before we move on from this draft, there's a bunch of really fun guys from five to 10.

And I have a favorite, which is the third thing I haven't told you guys, but who's your favorite in that five to 10 range, Kyle?

Is it still the Louisville kid?

Because I know you love the Louisville kid.

I like him.

I have some just kind of like novel favorites that I argue for a lot.

I mean, Kingston Fleming deserves a mention from Houston.

We have an interesting kind of case in this class where we had a couple guys who were off the main circuits and were playing on like those extra circuits, who weren't as visible and they kind of got undervalued and they just shot up the board.

Kingston Fleming is one of those.

Keaton Wagler at Illinois is another one.

There's a sneaky one for Kentucky.

I'm not going to, I mean, Mike, well, we could start with Michael Brown.

I think, I think it's pretty likely.

I don't take, I don't know how you feel about him, but movement shooter.

He's a little skinny, but he could really pass the ball.

He strikes me as somebody that he's kind of, he would fit really well alongside another star.

He's got interesting size, about six, three, six, four.

But yeah, that's.

Those are guys that kind of in the projected in the top 10 that I think are interesting.

Tate, who's your favorite?

I mean, I saw Wagler in person on Saturday.

I went to that Illinois-UCLA game.

And Wagler is one of those guys where he does take some head-scratching shots at times where you're just like I'm a little worried that he can't get a better look than that.

But a lot of times he makes those step-back threes.

So you're like, I'm intrigued.

He's got great passing. um, you know, vision.

And that's why Brad Underwood, who had never seen him play in person, gave him the offer.

I've seen him kind of drum up boards right now.

There's another guy that I think you'd really like bill.

And he's not in the five to 10, but he's probably in the late lottery.

Braylon Mullins at Yukon.

If you're just one of those teams, like a magic, Yeah.

That just wants like a shooter, like a specialist type.

But I do feel like Braylon has more to his game than he's really shown.

At this point he's getting better and better, getting more usage from Dan Hurley, getting more trust from coach Hurley.

Got to meet his family.

Was a big fan of them.

And they're just like an Indiana.

Like you talk about can nipple a little bit.

Like I feel like a Mullins could be one of those guys where it's like we just got a smart, really good, sound basketball player that can make a lot of shots for us.

So He's another one I would throw into that group that I really like, Late Lottery.

I'm still working on this.

I've only concentrated on the top four.

But now that football's gone, I can really start watching the college.

There's one guy I really like, and I don't know if he's polarizing.

I know nothing about what the take is.

He's in the top 10.

I really like the Arkansas kid.

Oh, yeah.

Acuff.

Yeah.

I think that kid's got something.

Um, he's got FU mentality.

That's for sure.

Something about him that I'm just I'm kind of in.

I want to see him a couple more times, but he's a guy who could explode for 50 in any college game.

He's, he's like a sequence guy where it's like, he gets hot and you can kind of feel it.

Um, I like that.

He's easy three point shots, but he's also paint shots, but he can also get to the rim.

And he, he seems like he's listed at six, three.

He seems like, maybe an inch taller than Kyrie.

But I think March Madness is going to be fascinating this year.

We have so much talent in the March Madness this year.

But he's the one that I could see just bumping off.

It's like the 1-8 matchup and he just single-handedly takes down somebody.

So I'm watching him.

I think he's been my favorite in the top 10 outside of the top four.

Yeah, he's more the steadiness thing that we were talking about before with Boozer, where it maybe isn't as like, It's not as flashy at times, but he's absolutely.

I think he's one of the smartest guards that Cal's ever coached.

I think he's right there.

Tyler Uless is another one who just had the disadvantage of being really small, but he's really really sharp.

He's an orchestrator.

You mentioned sequences, and I think that's really something that he's great at is...

He sees things ahead of time.

When teams switch coverages, I've seen him do this multiple times.

He's like he'll look at the floor and be like it's not that there's a guy open immediately, but a cuff is really good at seeing the board and being.

If there's a screen here, you space here.

We're going to get a shot after this move.

He thinks a couple moves ahead.

He's really savvy, man.

I can see him being as people reach for the flashy, shiny objects.

10 years from now, we're like damn.

Darius Acuff is just maybe not an all-star, but he was a winning player for a decade.

Great name, too.

You could hear either Ian Eagle or his son being like, A-cuff for three!

And I haven't done nearly enough work yet.

But I also, as I told you guys before the pod, I like the Kansas center.

I don't care that he's undersized.

That guy's going to be an NBA player in a rotation.

From Kokomo, Indiana.

I don't know if it's the older I get or whatever, but you can just clearly see who the NBA players are sometimes.

It's like, that guy will be in a rotation.

I don't care that he's two inches too short.

They'll be like, oh shit, OKC took him at 38.

Should I be shocked?

Before we go, Sintone or Detroit was last night.

Did you see it, Tate?

Yeah, I'm locked in.

You saw it too, Kyle.

Oh man, oh boy.

We're inching closer and closer to the... Holy fucking shit.

San Antonio could actually win the title.

It makes no sense.

2012 OKC territory.

We're like, this is for real.

We got to take it seriously.

Yeah, and it's probably even 2011 OKC, where that was the year before the year.

Wembley wasn't even good and got the shit kicked out of him and must've fallen 20 times and didn't have good stats.

And yet I thought he completely dominated the game.

It was, it was crazy.

Like he, like Cade.

That was the worst game I've seen Cade play since they were having like the losing streaks, and what he is able to do to these guards over and over.

He did a test GA.

He did it to Cade, these guys that are used to just I'll either shoot three or I'll go to the basket.

I'll get my little 12 foot float or whatever.

And when we just remove that and you can watch their brains break in real time, where they're like fuck, I don't, I don't have that shot anymore.

They didn't think it was possible to clam.

I thought that was possible, but it's, it's not.

So I don't know anything anymore.

And then they have to move back three feet and it screws up the whole offense.

Um, and then, you know, Castle going forth is one of the draft tragedies of the last 20 years.

We were talking about it during the drafts.

We all were like, this is stupid.

This teams are going to regret this.

But the stuff that he's doing in these big games where he's really like brings attitude.

And I just think he's a way better offensive player than I think anybody could have guessed this early.

Combined with their bench, he out Detroited Detroit last night.

Like Holland and a SAR and Caden, those guys who like puff their chest out and hit you first, and things like that.

You can tell you took that game personally.

I mean I'm reading into it a little bit, but he I mean going at Cade on offense like he was God, he was a dog last night.

I don't want to overreact to it because they don't have Stewart.

So that wasn't like, if that was a finals preview, that you can't, because Stewart is so important to Detroit and he's another tough guy and he would have even helped their game plan even more.

Tate of.

Let's just beat the living shit out of Wemby for two hours.

Yeah.

I, if I still don't think San Antonio is going to win the title, which isn't a hot take cause they're like 10 to one to win the title.

So it's not like I'm going out on a limb, but I do think the physicality of the playoffs is going to be my question with Wemby.

Cause you can see the strategy now it's even in like off ball stuff.

There was that one play.

It was in the first half, when they were waiting to throw the ball.

And Duren's just like hitting Wemby and they're fighting for this one piece of turf and Duren's just leaning on him and elbowing him and pushing him.

And that's just what teams are going to do.

And I don't know if he's going to hold up this year.

He might be two years away from that.

What do you think?

I don't know if the centers all have like a group where they all have like a conversation together, but I do feel like all the fives in the NBA.

Yeah.

Like they're all trying to convince Wimby not to play the five.

Like if you watch any of these games, like anytime that he's at the five and he's matched up against another five, like they're just trying to wreck him as much as they can.

To be like you, you really want to play the four.

Like you don't want to play the five with us.

You're not strong.

You don't want to be down here.

They're trying to AD him, exactly.

They're trying to get him out of the paint and be like, you don't want any part of this.

And I do feel like Wimby has been.

He's been taking a beating, but he does bounce right back up, which I think is the really encouraging sign.

And he seems like he's okay with dealing with it.

I got in trouble because when the Hornets fight happened I said Detroit kind of reminded me of like some fake tough guys.

You know, like, oh, boy.

Hey, man, I like Diabate.

Diabate got, you know, roughed up by Duren and he met him with the same amount of fire.

And then you know obviously, like you said, the enforcer beef stew came off the bench and made sure to send his own message.

But without beef stew there, it did feel like a little bit of that, a tinge of that.

I really like this Detroit team.

I would say they're probably my favorite team right now in the NBA.

I enjoy watching them play.

Cade's one of my favorite players.

Just watching him when he was younger to see what he's turned into.

But that was the first time I saw Cade, like you said, Bill get really shook by the space he was not able to dominate because of his size.

And it was because of Wimby.

And I thought we were maybe overrating Wimby a little bit, just because everybody was like I mean, is he going to be the youngest MVP ever?

Is he going to win a finals in his first year?

And that's a lot to put on someone.

But he's there.

He's absolutely there.

So, you know, I think at this point we can accept that fact.

Yeah, it's why you can't totally you do the MVP conversation and you just compared two guys stats.

There's other stuff that goes into it right, this is what i was saying about jaylen brown on sunday.

Like jaylen brown's guarding the best guy on the other team a lot of the times this season when he's wrecking offenses and big games like that, that has the biggest x factor of any mvp conversation.

He had a play last night i sent this to rob where, because we were watching we were both watching the second.

Hey, he didn't play great in the first and have him and during going at it was really interesting.

But they were in this play that you see, a lot of NBA teams run where Cade's at the top and he passes it to the left and it's an empty side.

Basically pick and roll and Dennis Jenkins, who's been great, comes across it and he's got during in the dunker spot and the center is put in this position to play two people.

Wimby literally just kept his hand next to Durin and was just like, this is not gonna happen.

You're not gonna throw this lob.

Did it all the way to the basket.

And Danis was like, all right, well, I guess I have this layup.

And then I looked at the time marker and the second didn't change is how quickly this happened.

So Wimby is flat footed.

He rotates his body and blocks Dennis at like the high point where no one ever blocked shots.

And you see these guys repeatedly be like, that's a golden.

And you go back and watch it and be like that.

No, it wasn't miraculously.

It wasn't like Wimby.

Just he can play.

I was talking with somebody about this where Wimby's drop coverage and like soft show in ball screens is as effective as he doesn't have to switch all the time.

Like he can give guys a pad and give them this false illusion, like he did with Cade of like, oh well, this is there.

And then Cade sees it a couple of times.

He's, Usually the Pistons are the people making people think about things other than basketball, and the Spurs were just like... It was a really interesting title checkmark thing for them last night, I thought, where they were like, yeah, we're tough, and we're good on offense, and they have a lot of stuff.

Yeah, especially because they blew the lead.

Detroit came back.

Detroit took the lead.

The crowd was incredible.

I mean, the Detroit games are some of the best crowds we're getting in any sport.

And San Antonio just figured it out.

Plus, our guy Harper...

Kyle, I just just I always get excited when he's a little bit involved.

And in some ways I almost wish he was on a bad team, just so he could be.

What's going on with flag, where he just gets to test drive stuff all season?

Then there are no stakes.

But I think he's figured out how to fit in more and more as the years gone along.

I'm fascinated by them.

When be three times a game just does something different.

You you you, just you forget that he can do.

You know, like these alley hoops where he doesn't jump.

I'm not used to that yet.

Yeah.

He's just like, boom.

It's like watching somebody on a nerf hoop and I can't get used to it.

And then the way he's challenging shots in the paint, I'm just not used to it.

So I can't imagine what it would be like to play him.

I do think I said this Sunday that uh, I just don't think Detroit as uh a four round team makes sense to me with how much is on Cade?

And you saw it last night.

There's like, he didn't have it.

They kind of figured him out.

There was no second guy to help with the offense.

They don't have that yet.

Whereas like all these other teams that they always have like a plan B or a plan C on offense.

I don't see the plan B with Detroit.

It's really like Tobias Harris.

And I just don't think that's good enough for four rounds, but that's my take.

Anyway, that was some game.

We got out.

Okay.

See Detroit this week too. which I think is Wednesday night, but that'll be a good one as well.

All right, guys.

We need SGA to come back so we can have like a real MVP conversation.

The 65 game thing is ridiculous.

And if it keeps us away from having like a de facto default MVP, I'm not going to be happy, Bill.

I just want to put that out there.

It's good for Wemby the longer he sits out.

That's true.

And Cade.

Yeah, and Cade.

Detroit Spurs play again March 5th.

That's going to be a good one at San Antonio.

All right, fellas.

I'm going to have you on again in a couple weeks and we can do a little update.

We'll see what happens with our guy Peterson.

But come in.

You can hear him on the Ringer NBA show.

Tate Frazier, not only on Ringer Gambling Show as we head toward March Madness, Tuesdays and Thursdays, but you know, the hit show of 2025 ring or tailgate.

Um one of the most important video podcasts ever created.

Uh unleash Joel Anderson on the on the planet as the comedy comedy figure of his times.

Um, but we're, you're keeping that going all the way through the draft, right?

And once a week.

Uh, we sometimes, you know, I send them the rundown and they have a.

Joel has a different plan for what we're going to talk about.

So, I mean, it's a beautiful thing.

We never know what's going to come up.

You know, Joe has so many, so many stories and van is living his best life.

So it's a lot of fun with those two guys.

Well, we're going to take a break, come back with somebody else who's on that show.

The Duke Philly Gill is next.

So thanks guys.

Good to see you.

And now it's time for today's with the assist segment presented by state farm and basketball.

You can have the best player in the league.

It doesn't mean he's going to win the title.

He can't do it alone.

He's going to have to lean on teammates, coaches, even fans to push them to be better.

And we've seen some pretty iconic assists over the years.

Yeah.

Then the second half of the 2010s, you had Steph and Clay.

You had KD joining the Warriors at some point.

Denver, they win the title.

It wasn't just Jokic.

Jamal Murray was huge that year too.

OKC last year, SGA, then J-Dub steps in every once in a while.

You need some help.

You might even see with San Antonio this year with Wemby, but also Steph Castle.

Like basketball, life is easier with great assists.

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All right.

The Duke is in the house, Billy Gill.

You can see him on the ringer NFL show.

You can see him on ringer tailgate with Tate, who is just on and he loves baseball.

I am going to start doing a little more on baseball in this podcast.

Um, It's slowly come back.

Hopefully we're not gonna have a debilitating three-year labor strike later this decade.

For now, we have baseball.

And I gave you an assignment.

What theme did we officially decide on?

Where did you land?

I was going to say it was a very loose assignment.

It was like let's come up with a list of five things, maybe seven, maybe eight, maybe nine, maybe things about spring training.

So with that direction, I kind of tried to piece all of that together and see what I could come up with.

So what I did was I kind of went over what happened last season.

And then what I did was I think I created maybe a cheat sheet of eight or nine things That I feel like, if you know, headed into spring training, you can kind of be caught up with what's going on in the world of baseball right now.

Or you could fake it just enough to your friends.

Well, the thing like, oh, this person's really paying attention.

So conversation starters slash.

I'm fooling people at cocktail parties, including the one guy here who really follows baseball.

And I'm going to prove I can hang with them even though I only have these nine things.

Yeah, you just kind of need a couple nuggets, i feel like that you throw in there and we could do like maybe a thing per team or whatever that you have.

You just throw that out there.

So what i did was i don't know if you still do this bill, so i kind of like the actual like magazines, the books, the research.

So i went a little bit crazy when i got the lindy sports baseball look at that.

Yeah, i went through, i took team.

So if you want, we can just kind of pick some teams at random.

If you don't like any of the topics, 178 pages of team previews we went through.

Well, you're talking.

You're talking to a guy who still buys the usa today sports weekly during spring training to follow the fantasy baseball.

Yeah, i still love that.

Do you?

Do you baseball forecaster it at any point for your, for your?

Do i need really I mean it's like very in the weeds on like advanced metrics?

Baseball forecaster is more so for fantasy.

But the thing with fantasy is it's all speculative, right?

Like you're just kind of guessing.

So you can spend all these hours as poor Ron Shannon.

And he's been doing this forever and someone gets hurt and none of that matters.

So he goes around, he talks to all these people.

None of it really makes a ton of difference, but I'm on a revenge tour this year, bill and my fantasy league, because I think this is the 20th or 21st season of our fantasy league.

And I started out strong.

I won two out of the first three championships and I haven't won anything since.

And yeah, We're getting to the point where I think that I can do it.

My wife doesn't believe in me.

She's asked me to quit.

She successfully got me to quit the COVID year because she told me yeah, COVID year I took off, which was a big mistake, because she said you're going to give them the buy-in.

You're going to lose.

You're going to get upset.

You're going to be mad at your cousin.

My cousin's the commissioner, but he's a bit of a scoundrel and he changes the Every year.

There's a bunch of lawyers in the league.

So they'll send out their own new league rules, but it's all in legalese.

And it's like 40 pages long.

And it's like, I get the gist of it.

I'll figure it out.

Every year, there's new rules.

Every year, there's cheating of some kind.

I'm the only person in the history of the league who has had trades vetoed.

It's happened to me on two separate occasions.

And are they like spiteful moves that I'm making?

Yes.

But do they fall within the spirit of other moves?

Like, absolutely.

Because my thinking is in fantasy, if you're going to do something outrageous, right, where you make a trade where it's clearly very one sided, right? why not just go big so like i would make trades or attempt to make trades where i'm trading essentially like my whole roster and i have three team deals four team deals do i have to reach out to the other teammates because they've given up on the season i have to get their passwords to like approve them like maybe potentially i'm not going to admit any of that but These always get vetoed.

So I'm very upset with my commissioner.

Wait, is it a keeper league or is it just every year it's a new team league?

That's another situation because it's fluctuated back and forth, different versions over the years.

We're now finally settled on.

We're doing categories.

It's a keeper league.

You can keep the players for two years, so you have draft them.

You can keep them twice and it's four rounds higher than you drafted them for the previous year.

So like, if i draft someone in the 20th round and i want to keep them next year, it's the 16th round, the following year is the 12th and then after that they're in free agency.

Yeah, exactly so i'm in this.

I'm in a 40 player al keeper league with where we do a draft and you can keep a guy.

It's two years.

You can keep them two, three, four more years.

It's $5 more every year.

It's insane.

I've been in it all century.

I haven't won in over 20 years.

I'm partners with my buddy Hench and I really care about it.

And it's a colossal waste of time.

Well, that's the thing.

It becomes a full time job like fantasy baseball is.

It's like fantasy football is the most popular of the fantasies, right?

Anyone can play fantasy football.

You basically just set your team.

Yeah.

And you don't really need skill.

You just kind of draft your team.

Just make sure that, you know, when there's bye weeks, you're swapping people out, whatever.

Baseball is like a full time commitment.

Well, throw in a minor league draft.

Like we had a couple of years ago.

We had the number one pick and it was between Marcella Meyer and Anthony Volpe, the Yankees shortstop.

I spent more time on this decision for three weeks than I did on like the ringer.

It was really important.

Hench and I just texting, we're texting like features we've read on each guy.

It was pathetic.

Not ashamed.

The thing is, it hurts me how much I end up caring.

And I see how me caring impacts my family negatively.

So I want to say that if I win, I'll just be like, let me go out on top.

But I know I'm going to come back and I'm going to have to kind of defend the crowd.

I'm never going to quit.

I regret quitting the one season that I did because my wife was like you're, I was like an internship up there, like PTI, whatever.

And I spent multiple days just with this little notebook on an inflatable couch that I got from like the grocery store.

Like one of those, you know, like composition notebooks with like this worldly stuff on the cover.

And I'm just like trying to figure out how can I trade this person?

How can I trade that person?

I execute what I think is a perfect trade.

It gets vetoed and I'm just cursing out my family members.

I have like other cousins that are in this league as well.

My dad was in this, he got kicked out because of apathy.

It's a very serious league.

Most of our fights are that somebody made a trade without without shopping the same offer to other people.

It's the same fight every year.

There's no honor in my league that you never really make the people available to everyone.

There's inside trading.

Here there was a situation where we had to kick people out of the league, where one of the iterations of this league it was like the first time we were going to do keepers right.

Yeah, so we had a guy that was a friend of ours from high school.

He was a lawyer and he had then like a lawyer intern, whatever it would be that they're called right where they're league.

He was related to us paralegal, I think so.

Maybe.

I'm helping.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

So anyways, so he comes in.

He's not paying attention at all.

He trades all of his good players to his lawyer boss, who's a friend of ours.

And then the explanation was like, no, well, it's a keeper league.

So he got this back.

So this person is going to be worth something like three seasons.

So this is actually a good deal.

Except he ended up leaving our league.

They changed the format the following year.

So none of those people were keepers.

It was just cheating from the beginning.

It's honestly...

It's bullshit.

Every year is bullshit.

Something happens.

Someone's trying to pull a fast one over someone else.

We have a corrupt commissioner.

No one wants to stand up to him.

It's nonsense.

But I can't give up because I need to win this league.

I need to get back on top and feel alive.

I feel like it'll bring me back to my youth.

You know, like I'm old now.

I have kids.

I don't have the same energy.

Yeah.

I wake up and I feel like I'm missing something.

And I think that that what I'm missing is a fantasy baseball championship.

And that'll get me right back on top and bring me back to where I was 20 years ago.

You know, I was in a league where the guy traded Mookie Betts for three guys who sucked.

Oh no, that was real life.

That was the red side.

My bad.

I got mixed up for a second.

Um, anyway, what are your, let's go.

What are your things?

What's your number one thing?

Give us your conversation starter, your cocktail party helper.

All right.

Well, so before we get to the cocktail party helpers and all the conversation starters last year, great year for baseball.

A plus.

Record numbers, World Series, incredible World Series, setting records, 30 million viewers.

I think Game 7 had 50 million viewers.

They're doing this thing now, where they're combining viewers in Canada, the US and Japan, to say like wow, 50 million viewers watched this, combined across the three countries.

And it's kind of like We've never measured anything in television across three countries.

But if that's what we have to do like okay, fine.

Major league baseball.

Like it was a great game, game tying home run game, winning home run plays at the plate.

It was awesome.

I thought, and I don't know if you were the same.

I thought at the time that the blue Jays going wouldn't be best case.

That like for viewers it would be like Yankees Dodgers again, but Yankees Dodgers like that'll be doing it.

But I didn't take into account.

The three country factor that I didn't know that we did in rating viewers where Canada would be involved.

And then, of course, Japan is involved with Shohei.

So it ended up being great for the game.

Attendance has been up.

Length of game has been going down.

But there are changes coming to baseball.

And that's kind of one of the things that we're going to get to.

I thought it turned out to be a great world series.

I was dreading Dodgers Yankees, because that would have meant the Yankees could potentially win the world series.

So just having them out of it was great.

But I think the thing that changed last year was the Dodgers becoming like this monolith, you know, almost like what the Mahomes Chiefs were like or the Brady Pats.

Like they kind of moved like the Kobe, Shaq Lakers or the Warriors in the 2010s.

They moved into this thing now, where they're now this unbeatable champ, this thing we can all measure against to try to beat, which I'm pro.

I like that when we have a team like that.

You don't like it as much.

It's not that I don't like it.

I think last year played out well for the Dodgers because they didn't struggle but they didn't.

They didn't win 100 games.

So it wasn't like they're going out there.

They're winning 115 games.

It's not close.

They almost lost the World Series.

It took seven games.

They could have lost it in six.

They could have lost it in seven.

So the Blue Jays kind of taking them to that point, like to the brink, extra innings.

And then they win it.

It was fine.

Like it was good.

It was an exciting game.

It was kind of like okay well, this feels like someone can kind of get to the Dodgers, because surely the Dodgers can't just spend every off season throwing all of their money.

They already spent $700 million on one guy.

Like, obviously they're going to run out of money at some point.

They can't just keep up this insane spending.

Right.

Well, yeah.

They did.

They continued the insane spending in the offseason.

They just continue to do whatever it is that they want.

So we'll see how it goes.

I mean, the West is the Padres can kind of maybe Padres can put up a fight here.

The Padres are kind of like a perennial disappointment underachiever, though.

Right.

I feel like we're told every year like this is the year the Padres are going to do it.

And now we've kind of just somewhat given up on teams overtaking the NFL version of that.

That looks awesome on paper.

I mean, it's probably the Buffalo Bills.

Yeah.

I mean, the Bills, you feel like it's always going to be their year.

The thing is, there's no Dodgers in the NFL right now.

It was the Chiefs.

It was Chiefs, yeah.

But it didn't last.

It's done, yeah.

I mean, it lasted as long as it could, but everybody just kind of got old.

Well, the Dodgers, so they get the Mets closer, Diaz, and they also get Kyle Tucker.

Add that to a two-time champ.

That kind of sucked for the National League.

And it spun the Mets out was the other fun part of that.

You know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to fast forward to number nine, since we're already talking about all my nine things that you should talk about.

This is the last.

Yeah, we're going backwards.

Yeah, this is the last thing here.

Well, just because we're already here, so we might as well get to it.

So actually, this is number eight.

So this is, what are they doing?

What exactly is going on here?

And The teams that we're trying to figure out what exactly is going on here are the Dodgers, as you mentioned, because the Dodgers continue to spend money.

They continue to do whatever it is that they want to do, right?

They give $240 million to Kyle Tucker.

Why did they do that?

Why do they give him $60 million a year?

Aside from the fact that they can, what is the actual explanation for why the Dodgers are giving that money to him?

He wasn't that great last season.

He had like 20 home runs.

He had like an 800 plus OPS.

He's good.

But $60 million seems like you should be a game changer, which he wasn't really.

So what are they doing?

So it seems like with these shorter contracts I was talking to a Dodger fan friend of mine about this, where in the old days it was, you'd give the pool holes contract right.

It was like, what was that?

Like eight, 10 years, whatever it was for.

And then 250, whatever.

And the last half of that contract, you're kind of screwed.

It's like, ah, fuck.

We got four good years out of this.

Now we got to ride out these next four.

And the Dodgers are just like, we'll overpay you now.

And we'll get out of it after four years.

And maybe you're 35 million or $40 million a year guy.

We're going to, we're going to pay out the extra 20 year now.

Hope you're good in your prime.

And if you are, it's a bonus.

If not, we're getting rid of that money during the contract.

And then we don't have it hanging over our heads six years from now.

Seems like the strategy, not against it.

It's just weird.

Yeah, I mean, they also signed the best closer out there.

So they're set.

They didn't have a closer last year.

Yeah.

I mean, they had Tanner Scott, who ended up kind of being a disappointment for them.

So wherever they had minor weaknesses, they no longer have any of those weaknesses.

So the Dodgers just continue to spend money.

The Giants decided, you know what we're going to do?

We're going to hire the University of Tennessee's head baseball coach this year because we don't really know what it is that we're going to do to keep up with the Dodgers.

Buster Posey's there.

He's in charge.

He fires Bob Melvin after a 500 season.

And he says, you know what we're going to do?

Let's hire a college coach that's never coached at any position in Major League Baseball.

What are the Giants doing here?

That one I did not understand.

Well, we've seen this happen in NFL and it's the results are mixed, to say the least, but it reminded me a little of the Steve Spurrier.

It's like, this guy's good.

Maybe it'll translate and keep your fingers crossed.

Well, it's kind of like, when Saban went to the NFL, right?

Yeah, that's another one.

Which didn't really pan out, I guess.

Another one that's going on because the NOS right now it's just everyone's trying to keep up with the Dodgers, and the only reason the Dodgers are on here is because of how much money they gave Kyle Tucker for 22 home runs and 71 RBIs.

The Rockies decided...

You know, we had a terrible season last year.

We need to change things up.

They notoriously just hire from within.

We need to go outside of our organization.

So for the first time in 26 years, they hired outside of their organization for someone to run the Rockies.

And the person that they hired was Paul DePodesta.

Ooh.

Yeah, Paul DePodesta.

Checkered history.

He's been out of baseball for 10 years and he most recently was with the Browns as their chief strategy officer, where he decided you know what we got to do.

Let's sign Deshaun Watson to the worst contract in the history of the NFL.

And trade picks for him.

Yeah.

Let's completely handcuff this organization forever.

And the Rockies said, you know what?

We just saw Moneyball.

Maybe, maybe Paul DePodesta, we can bring him in.

He can do something here.

He can figure this out.

Except again, he hasn't been in baseball for a decade.

So he needs to catch up to what's happening in modern day baseball.

Yeah.

So maybe somebody was trying to zag in the front office.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, he was ruining the Browns.

This seems stupid.

And then somebody was like yeah, but if he had been in baseball this whole time, maybe he'd be the single best guy running a baseball team.

So we're buying low.

Maybe he was just in the wrong sport and they do it that way.

It's the perfect division for things like this to happen.

Cause again, you have the Dodgers at the top who are going to dominate this division.

Seemingly you have the Padres who can threaten them.

You have the diamond backs, who seemed like they were a nice, fun young up and coming team a couple of seasons ago and then kind of gone back to you know 500 more or less.

So if you're the Rockies, I guess, why not try anything?

And if you're the Giants, why not?

I guess?

Try to think outside the box when you fire your longtime manager.

The problem is you're going against the Dodgers, who basically have revenue streams from two massive countries happening at the same time California and Japan.

And then the Padres.

So the Padres are for sale now and they're going to go for over three billion.

I didn't realize this.

They have a revenue of like five hundred and fifty million dollars a year because they're the only team in San Diego and they get.

They just leverage everything and they just like print money.

So those are the two teams you're competing against.

They're in like the top 10 in spending.

I think they're like second or third in attendance.

Like they have money to spend.

They're just not spending it.

They also just resigned their president of baseball operations, AJ Preller, who's like, you know, some people love him, some people hate him, but he always kind of goes for it.

They resigned him.

So that might've been kind of like a gift on the way out where his future was up in the air.

And they said, you know what?

This guy's been loyal to us.

We're going to sell the team.

Let's like lock him in dodgers, padres here, like the dodger fans, like they're.

The padres as a rival and the giants as a rival are real.

I mean, the giants is like a whole other level, but the padres are a real rival.

Like then that's something that kind of re-emerged this decade, which has been pretty fun.

But do they have to win to actually be a serious rival?

Like, could they just be kind of like the annoying little brother?

That's what the dodgers yeah, that's what they are.

They're the annoying kind of kind of kicking them under the table all the time.

They play the game close, like best of 11.

They get to like nine.

And then it's like, all right, like we've had enough fun here.

Like go back to where you were.

What's your next one?

All right.

So here are noteworthy things that happened the first weekend of spring training.

So this is like, you show up to a cocktail party this weekend.

You walk around and you say, did you see, did you see this?

This is where we were supposed to start, but we got to number nine.

So we actually talk about it.

Yeah, we'll figure it out.

Anyways.

So noteworthy things that happened the first week.

Tony Clark at his Major League Baseball Players Association union rep.

A lot of fascinating things about this one, including the crazy beard he had.

Yeah, he kind of secretly grew that long beard.

He had it go deep for a while.

It kind of grew out, and he decided, you know what, to keep going all white on the beard.

I kind of like it.

I mean, I can't grow that beard, but I kind of like it for him.

It's a good look for him.

It's almost like an old Hillbilly Jim wrestling beard crossed with, I don't know what.

So he had an affair with his sister-in-law, who he had then hired for the Players Union, and that became the problem.

Yeah, that was an issue.

And as you mentioned, there's a looming lockout coming after the season December 1st.

If they don't reach a new CBA, there will be a lockout.

And it's kind of a bad look, I guess, to have your union rep be involved in extracurricular activities while you're trying to renegotiate a new CBA.

Especially, that was a sordid one, too.

Did we ever figure out which side of the sister law family was?

I think it was the sister, his wife, but who knows?

Allegedly oh, this is a legend, i'll just say alleged over and over again, but yeah, i think i think it was the sister.

It's safe and it's one of those things that like on the way out, knowing kind of how delicate the situation was, no one was really like can we just like tony, before you go like, can we clear up, like brother's wife?

Small question wife's sister?

How exactly did this work out here?

Tindall could have put odds on it.

That could have been fun.

I would have wagered on it.

But yeah, so Tony's out.

He's a beloved Red Sox opponent because he hit the double in one of the ALCS games in 04.

That would have been the go-ahead run in extra innings, but it bounced into the right field stance.

Guy had to stop at third.

There's the Tony Clark hit.

So we've always enjoyed him after that because he did that for us.

All right, so Tony Clark is out.

Also happening.

First game this weekend, Yankees had a sewage leak that took over their entire clubhouse.

It was going into the team's store.

They had to close off sections of the team's store.

The clubhouse is all carpeting that probably ruined all the carpeting.

It started in the bathroom, just kind of bad plumbing situation.

I don't know if this is like Has anything to do with.

The Rays played their entire season there last year, where the Yankees have their spring training.

But it didn't affect them.

They went on to win 20-3 against the Tigers.

So that was kind of like a short-term annoyance.

And they have some prospect that's throwing like 103.

I don't know if you followed this guy.

I don't understand arms I guess like just human arms and how they work now, as opposed to how they used to work back in the day, and how people are capable of just regularly hitting 103, 104.

And you know, they just go on living their lives until they blow out their elbow and have Tommy John and that's their career.

But that's the thing.

99 was super fast 20 years ago.

99 was like, wow, that guy's throwing 99.

And now that feels pedestrian.

I was impressed with a 97.

If I saw like a 97, like the old scoreboard that was actually like individual, like light bulbs that are like orange or whatever color, like you'd wait, you'd turn and see, like wow, that one seemed like fast.

You'd look up, you'd see how fast it was.

It hits like 97.

Like, wow.

You're not here in Miami.

You haven't heard the conspiracy theory that they jack up the radar, radar gun a little bit.

That has been out there.

That's out there.

I have one that I heard from the former Marlins team president who put it out there.

When Brad Penny was on the mound, they would intentionally lower the speed of his pitches because they wanted to kind of like amp him up and get him to throw harder.

So he'd be out there.

He'd look up after like every pitch and it would say like 93 when it was really like 97, 98.

And he'd just get pissed off.

And he's like, I got to throw harder.

He just throw even harder the next time.

And then he blew out his elbow and it wasn't.

Yeah.

Weird that it didn't last long.

Yeah.

Brad Penny.

Yeah.

No rules.

All right.

Okay, so there was a sewage leak.

Weird triple plays have returned.

I don't know if you saw this game.

I think this is a game that involved like the Orioles or one of the teams.

I don't know.

Where it was a hit.

And then they decided to throw in, he decided to try to go for two, tag them out at second base.

There's two runners on third base.

They tagged the guy out that went from second to third because they're both standing on the base.

So the back runner is automatically out.

The lead runner then decides, you know what, I guess I'm out.

So he walks off the base, triple play.

So we're still trying to figure out the rules.

These are kind of the things that happen in spring training.

So you can talk to people about the weird triple play that happened.

Also, home run leaders.

Pete Alonzo already has two home runs.

And I don't know if you saw this.

It came out today.

Daryl Strawberry.

Have you seen this, Bill?

Daryl Strawberry today I believe it was in the New York Post said Pete Alonzo is gonna regret leaving the Mets.

So Darryl Strawberry and Pete Alonzo are already kind of somewhat beefing.

They then had to go back to Darryl Strawberry and get clarification on what he meant.

Where it was like kind of like a half apology, where he's like no no, what I really meant was is I was in his position.

I left and I could have been an all time leader for an organization.

That's a special thing.

So I think he's going to look back one day and he's really going to regret leaving, not being an all time Mets leader in something, even though it seems like the Mets didn't really make that much of an effort to keep Pete Alonzo.

Like they could have locked him up last season.

They ended up not doing it.

He was a free agent.

He signs like a one year deal to come back.

I think there was an option that he opted out of.

And this year they also didn't give him money, which is weird, because the Mets have just about as much money as everyone else.

So if they really wanted Pete Alonzo, they could have easily signed Pete Alonzo, but they decided to kind of let him go, which is weird because I think the last five seasons he's been top five in home runs every year.

Like it's not weird because this, this brings up one of my favorite theories.

Okay.

I don't know if I've introduced this on the pod.

I think running backs and the, people who could only be a first base or DH very similar.

What happens to them in the market when they start hitting their, like their early thirties, right?

Cause people don't.

Doesn't seem like they want to tie up a ton of money with the guy who could only play that position, who might actually get worse.

And then you're stuck versus like, If you get I don't know, like a wide receiver or a tight end or something you feel it's a little harder to find those guys versus running back.

You could just cycle in these second round, third round, fourth round picks.

The Red Sox were in this situation with Casas, right, who's young.

But it's like, well, if we double down on him...

Now we're kind of stuck, and now we have no flexibility with this spot.

I think teams like having the flexibility with first base DH is my take.

Stephen Cohen just seems kind of like a weird guy.

Did you see he also came out and he said there will be no captains on this team?

I did see that.

I didn't understand that.

I don't either, but I don't understand it in that I never, growing up, considered captain a baseball thing.

Do you think I should designate a captain for the ringer?

And if I did, would Van quit if he wasn't named captain?

I was going to say.

I feel like Van has to be high on the list of who you might designate as captain of the ringer.

He'd start calling himself the captain.

He's on a lot of shows.

If we're going to be on usage rate, Van's pretty high on there.

He could be a captain.

I mean, Joel from tailgate would be offended if he wasn't captain.

Yeah, that could cause problems on the tailgate show.

Maybe that's why Steve Cohen didn't want a captain.

Hmm.

He.

He made it seem like I think he said there will never be a captain as long as I own this team, which also seems like.

Why do we have to be so definitive on this?

Like captain's a dumb thing, but why are you taking such a strong stand?

Why is he offended by captains?

I don't know.

All right.

Yeah.

All right.

So other early home run leaders, Aaron judge has two home runs for the Yankees.

So he's kind of, Yeah, he's sticking on there strong.

And here's kind of a fun thing that you can talk about with your friends.

Clint Hurdle released a book this week.

Really?

And he also has been very, very active on Twitter this past week with his book coming out.

It's called Clint Hurdle Hurdleisms, Wit and Wisdom from a Lifetime in Baseball.

Wit and Wisdoms.

Yeah, wit and wisdoms.

And it essentially is like not a poetry book per se, but it's a lot of just kind of like nonsenses.

If you go on his Twitter account, you will see his last like five or 10 tweets have been things that have really just cut on.

And it's just things that pop into his head that have absolutely, they're nonsensical.

They're somewhat related to baseball.

And he then will quote himself.

Also, if you follow him, Glenn Hurdle is following absolutely anyone out there.

He followed me today.

He's following anyone that interacts with him on Twitter.

I don't know that he knows how Twitter works.

But one tweet that really caught fire yesterday was him saying, quote we can measure everything with radar, guns and analytics, but none of these can measure guts and nuts.

Guts and nuts.

Guts and nuts can't be measured.

There's no analytics for guts and nuts, according to Clint Hurdle.

Well, you left out that this book is only 144 pages.

Is it a book if it's under 200 pages?

That's a borderline pamphlet.

I think it's more if you look at it, I can't figure out what it is.

But when it says wit and wisdom, it seems as though it's just like not poetry, but it's nonsense.

So like his last tweet was, don't take the heart out of the player.

Don't take the heart out of the game.

Let it be.

Clint Hurdle.

Multitasking makes me multi-mediocre.

That's another Clint Hurdle.

Clint Hurdle.

I'm also pretty sure these hurdles are things that he took from other people.

This could have been the whole podcast.

Why did we even need to do anything else?

They never care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Clint Hurdle.

So if you want, and you want to get an early holiday gift or whatever with some friends, Clint Hurdle wrote a book of hurdle-isms that you can give.

Tough love is still love, Clint Hurdle.

Wow.

There's no chance he invented tough love is still love.

Just find it hard to believe that Clint is giving him credit for all of these sayings.

Shower well is another one he has?

What does that mean?

I don't know.

Shower well.

Showering, super important.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

I'm definitely getting this book now.

It'd be funny if it became a bestseller.

Clint Hurdle, Hurdle-isms.

Go get your copy.

I think it's available now.

Sounds great.

Go support Clint.

All right.

So now you're all caught up.

Now you can tell people what happened this weekend in spring training baseball.

And you'll feel like you're not out of the loop.

That was good.

So here's something that's going on.

Big change in baseball this season.

Something that everybody's going to be talking about.

ABS, Automatic Ball Strike Challenge.

Are you familiar with this?

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I don't think people are going to be prepared for this and they're going to be watching the first game going.

What's going on?

There's a lot of confusion and it happens very quickly also, which is one of the good things about the situation.

So they kind of tinkered with this last year in the all-star game some, which was kind of cool because they had a lot of the players miked up and we saw it.

So the way that they're doing this is, if you're unfamiliar with baseball and just kind of how this is going to work out, but you're super familiar with tennis, this will make sense.

Think about in tennis, where you see whether the ball is in or out, and they go and they say there's a challenge and everybody looks up at the screen.

And then within seconds, you see exactly where the ball hit.

That's basically what they're doing with balls and strikes this year.

And they're giving.

They're giving each team a two challenges, but if you win the challenge, you then don't lose it, so you can keep challenging.

Now a lot of things are going to happen.

There's only three people that can challenge.

The people that can challenge are the pitcher, the catcher and the hitter.

So a coach can't challenge, a manager can't challenge i guess they can yell to challenge the ball or whatever.

Second baseman can't challenge.

Only pitchers, catchers and hitters can challenge.

If you, if you keep winning, you Yankees, where they had one team.

No lie, had nine or 10 challenges and it was getting ridiculous because they challenged the second pitch of the game to make it a two Oh count.

The first hitter of the game, where I feel like during the season we're not going to see that as much, but it was such a good pace.

Like why did they have to tinker with this?

The good thing is, is it's quick.

You see it instantly.

So you see it and you move on.

But I feel like there might be unintended consequences.

And it's so precise.

It'll say this pitch.

You see the graphic.

It goes by the side.

You see exactly where it was.

And it'll say this pitch missed by two tenths of an inch, which seems impossible to actually calculate.

And when it's like that nitpicky, why don't we just kind of let it go and not hold up the game?

But this is what we're in store for now.

One of the situations that's going to happen as a result of this is there's going to be teams that are constantly doing this on the broadcast.

They've removed the strike zone.

So you can no longer see during games this season the little box live, where you see if it's a ball or a strike.

I don't like that either.

Now you go back to the world where you're dependent on the camera angles in each stadium being different and you have no idea what's a ball or strike based on the angle, how far it is behind home plate.

Is it further left, the center?

Is it further right, the center?

So you're going to have no idea in real time.

You're going to have to kind of depend on this, but I'm assuming they did that because they want to protect, You know, the integrity of the game from.

The Astros of the world will probably have a TV in there where they were just watching the game and they see the ball in real time in and out.

But here's another thing.

I'm glad you pointed to the Astros on that.

They still haven't got enough shit.

Anyway, keep going.

I hate the Astros.

I got to tell you there's no grudges.

I hold longer than baseball grudges, especially grudges from like, my early childhood I'll really hold on to for absolutely no reason.

Like there's this guy, Richie Lewis who pitched for the Marlins when I was like six years old.

And we went to this autograph signing at champ sports.

He was like a relief pitch or something.

Guy sucks.

But he went out there, he had his fancy Oakley's on.

He was one of like the four guys, the first season of the team that was signing autographs.

And he decided not to sign autographs for certain things.

And he didn't sign autographs for me because I guess the line had closed or whatever.

And I remember my dad as a young boy.

My dad said to me Billy, no matter how successful you are in life, never be a Richie Lewis who's too good to spend time with the people, because one day people aren't going to care about you.

They're not going to care about Richie Lewis.

And you're going to wish that you had signed that autograph.

So never be Richie Lewis.

So Richie Lewis, wherever you are, are out there.

Screw you, buddy.

Like I haven't forgotten this thing.

This is weird.

That was also a Clint hurdle ism.

Was it?

Yeah.

Never be Richie Lewis.

I don't know how that happened.

Classic hurdle.

So here are some unintended consequences.

I think of ABS, right?

If you have a situation, you no longer have the strike zone.

So you're not going to see that.

You also have catchers whose entire career is based on framing into thinking this is a strike when it's actually a ball.

So you have alejandro kirk from toronto.

He just signed a long-term deal.

He's fine.

You have austin wells, who's a master framer.

He'll be fine because he's good offensively.

But you have the austin hedges of the world in cleveland, who's not great offensively but he's loved by pitchers because he's great at framing and he's great at turning balls that are either right on the zone and it's a ball into a called strike or just holding it firm and not moving too much, so that the actual strikes are called strikes.

I feel like the Austin Hedges of the world, the Players Association, shouldn't have allowed this, because we now are going to be losing Austin Hedges.

Because if you're hitting 160 and your skill is framing and the hitter can just challenge every time he knows it's a ball, that you're making it a strike, there's no purpose for you in Major League Baseball.

This sounds like a baseball movie the best pitch framer in the league.

They changed the rules on him.

Now he's got to figure out how to make an impact so it also meets a girl.

I was gonna say in this yeah, in this movie does he like they kick him out and then he has to kind of like he's down on his luck.

He's now like i don't know, working like a pizza place or something, and then, you know, something happens and someone calls him for one last chance.

So then there's like the scene where those align.

Like if I just hit two Oh three, like I need something else.

It can't just be the framing anymore.

Yeah.

He learns to be a better baseball player.

All right.

So there's that.

And then here's another unintended consequence that I wonder if we're going to see is This could lead the umpires to kind of treating a lot of this the same way.

NFL referees treat things where it's like okay, there's holding on every call, but I can't call.

I can't call everything a hold.

Right.

So I wonder if you have a catcher that's back there that says, you know what?

I really want to show up this umpire today.

Like I'm going to challenge this.

I wonder if he then starts kind of like, let's see if you challenge every play.

Like, let's see how many of these you're willing to challenge in a row on borderline pitches.

Are you going to be doing this six times in the third inning, six times in the fourth inning?

We have a situation where we could have vengeful on fires here.

We're coming after teams because they're not liking being shown up, because they're only human right.

They don't, they don't like that.

They're going to be shown up.

I, someone who, I don't know how you feel about this.

I kind of like the human element of baseball.

I liked when you can kind of have things you didn't have.

Replay that would overturn absolutely everything about basketball.

I think it's OK that we have this with goaltending now in basketball, where that you can't be reviewed, and it's like it's OK, we'll get over it.

Whereas like we're like painstakingly reviewing these other parts of the game.

And I don't know.

I don't like it.

Well, they stole from us in doing that.

They don't think of the unintended consequences.

When they went to the fact that they have the replay review and you can't come out and argue it, or automatic ejection.

We lost the bobby cox's of the world right, we lost the lou pinellas of the world.

We lost theatrics that made baseball fun.

Yeah, the guys that would go out there and they'd cover home plate with the dirt you'd have.

The minor minor leagues took it too far, as they always do, where you have kind of the coaches crawling around, you know, on on the mound throwing raws and bads like grenades, like that was that was too much granted, like that.

We went a little bit too far in the minor leagues, but They're trying to get called up to the show too.

So the posture was good for those where I liked when the managers would go up and they do this with their arms so they can get really close, but it's not physical.

And you just do this.

You don't bump.

You move your head a lot.

You kind of go like this.

Maybe a little, maybe some spit doesn't come out, a little spittle like just a little spit, but an unintentional spit.

So you don't get a ejected from the spit.

And then you also had that as a tool to kind of light a fire under your guys.

You know, when you go out there, you're like, look, I know I know you're right.

My guys are struggling here.

So I just call you MF for this and say this about your mother or whatever.

Just say the right things to kind of get yourself tossed out.

And the guy's like, wow, man, coach really has my back.

I'm going to go out there and we're going to, we're going to rally around.

You know, Richie Lewis blew a game for us.

We're going to rally around this and we're going to kind of come together.

We're going to win this game.

And then we're going to shower.

Well, yeah.

And then we're going to shower.

Well, what else do we have?

We have eight minutes left.

Oh, wow.

OK, we got to go fast.

All right.

So there's some new bodies.

We're cranking.

Well, we did a lot of fantasy baseball.

New bodies.

All right.

So what are you thinking?

It's not new places.

It's not new faces.

There's plenty of those.

But new bodies in Major League Baseball.

Roman Anthony, number one new body that's out there.

So new body watch is a big fantasy baseball thing.

You got to keep an eye on this.

So he comes in, he gains 15 to 20 pounds of muscle.

However, he recently had a stomach bug where he lost 10 to 12 pounds because of the stomach bug.

So we're coming in maybe somewhere between three and seven pounds heavier in muscle than he did last season.

Keep an eye on Roman Anthony.

See what's going on with him.

This is my favorite Red Sox player.

So I'm concerned.

I don't like the cycle of, I put on a lot of weight.

Oh man.

I hurt my back.

I hurt this other thing.

And then the next spring training where it's like, I put on too much weight last year.

I needed it like sleek down.

And now I feel better.

That's what I hope doesn't happen with Roman Anthony.

Well, the thing is, so here's someone that you should be kind of concerned about.

Eli De La Cruz put on 15 pounds of muscle in the off season.

Eli De La Cruz is a guy who is a five school player.

He can hit for power, but he could already hit for power.

He had a stretch.

I think last year, from July until September where he didn't hit a home run.

So he decided I need to kind of put on some weight.

But he also went down from 60 plus stolen bases two years ago to 30 stolen bases last year.

Now he's added 15 pounds of muscle.

You have to think that's not going to help him with his stolen bases.

He also switched managers at one point where they were like, run whenever you want.

And then last year, the manager was like, you have the green light, but you don't always have to go.

So this is one where the 15 pounds may not work in his favor.

Then we can skip some of the other guys.

We don't need to know.

Everybody keep an eye on vladimir guerrero.

It should be like we should be able to look this up.

Leader body pounds yeah, new body pounds.

I would click on that.

Okay, so new bodies, two more that we'll go to one of them vladimir guerrero.

Vladimir guerrero, on instagram not too long ago, put out a before picture and then he put an after picture and it said seven weeks in the lab And there was no noticeable body difference that I could tell between picture one and picture two.

One of them, he was just kind of down like this.

The other one, he was posing.

So whatever sags he may have had kind of like didn't exist anymore when you kind of strike the pose.

So I'm not exactly sure whether he gained or lost weight in the offseason.

I know that he signed a big contract and he's taken care of.

He also could have just been making fun of this situation and showing like, hey, I'm back.

Doesn't matter.

Oh, like a parody account.

Yeah.

Also, using the lab makes me nervous because sometimes that ties in with the 15-pound weight gain.

Probably would have used the word lab.

15 pounds is not the most severe weight gain we have.

That goes to Zach Veen and the Colorado Rockies organization, who gained 43 pounds this offseason in muscle.

He comes in with a career one home run.

He credits this to getting sober and he's no longer dealing with substance abuse issues.

But he comes in 43 pounds heavier than last season.

And in case you're wondering, how will this play out, he has already hit a 468 foot home run this spring.

So it seems as though his 43 pounds of muscle are being used productively.

So that broke the record of Kumail Nanjiani was the last person who put on 43 pounds in three months of muscle.

We don't talk about that enough.

Remember that?

He just was suddenly jacked.

Now he's doing direct TV commercials so he can look jacked.

Almost.

I'm sure he's a very lovely man.

I don't know this, but Almost disgustingly jacked, if we're going to be honest.

It's almost a turnoff, if I'm going to be honest.

It's too muscular, especially where he was coming from.

Like, I get it.

His jaw is now like ultra defined also.

It's just, it's a little bit too much.

I don't think muscle and comedy really necessarily mixes.

I felt that way since Joe Piscopo way back when.

The muscle is, I don't need my comedians to be jacked.

You need to be more relatable, I feel like.

Be like the every guy.

Be like the Jonah Hill of the world.

Like Vlad Guerrero, just posting the same photo of himself and claiming he was in the lab.

Exactly right.

Okay, here's one that you're going to hate.

The World Baseball Classic.

This is something that's going to be going on in spring training.

You need to keep an eye on just because In the game that I was telling you about, there's injuries.

There's also weird roster situations going on.

But for the next three weeks, some teams are going to be without their team, essentially.

So today, the Yankees played against the Blue Jays.

And between the two teams, including minor leaguers.

24 players from the two teams combined were leaving to go be on World Baseball Classic rosters, including the entire starting infield for the Blue Jays.

Wow.

You have teams... that also exists just because they have to, I guess, this late in the game.

But the Puerto Rican team, almost no one got insured.

So half of their team can't even play.

So any stars that you were looking forward to seeing from Puerto Rico Jose Altuve, Carlos Correa, Francisco Lindor They didn't get insurance, so they are ineligible for the World Baseball Classic.

It got to the point that Bad Bunny came in and offered to pay Carlos Correa's insurance to play in the World Baseball Classic.

And they were like no Bad Bunny.

Thank you for being very patriotic, but that's not how this works.

You can't pay for their insurance.

Now they also.

Famously, Puerto Rico lost Edwin Diaz last year um or last world baseball classic in 2023, when he was celebrating a walk off win and then ended up missing the season.

He bounced back ultimately.

But world baseball classic.

It's going to be exciting for about two weeks, but there's a lot of weird things that go on.

There's potential injury situations.

Tariq Scooble is going to pitch for the U?

S, but he's only going to pitch one start for the U?

S, and the start that he's going to have for the U?

S is not of the tournament against Great Britain.

And then he's going to be going back to the Dodgers, which seems like a waste of Tariq Scooble, but they're very deep in pitching.

You have Paul Skeen.

So I think that what they're doing is just getting a ton of aces, having them pitch one game each and then sending them back to their team.

So that's, I guess, your very quick World Baseball Classic refresher.

Oh, and Shohei Otani, who won the last World Baseball Classic.

In that moment where he pitched against, He pitched against Mike Trout.

It was like, wow, what are we going to do here?

One run game, top of the ninth inning.

Is Trout going to tie it?

Who's going to win?

He ends up striking him out.

It becomes his famous moment.

Japan goes on, wins, beats United States 3-2.

Shohei Otani will not be pitching in the World Baseball Classic.

He will only be hitting for Team Japan.

But, He will be pitching this year for the Dodgers.

So while he's not pitching in games, he needs to be throwing bullpen sessions with the Japanese team to get ready to pitch for the Dodgers once the season starts.

So the World Baseball Classic is kind of, you know, confusing things a little bit.

But it's fun if you kind of can get into it for two weeks.

Otani minus 135 for MVP on Fandle.

Really?

Feels like anytime he's around, even that's just a bet.

Because he's two guys.

How does anyone beat him?

You'd have to have the greatest season of the last 10 years to trump that.

It's his first season.

The Dodgers are actually going to get a full season of the two Ohtanis where he gets the 760 million or whatever it was.

Which, by the way, I get it when it's two players, but giving people 600 million, 500 million, 700 million.

Now we're only playing one position.

I don't get like.

I get that Otani reset the market as to what the annual value is, but he's like one of one where he's two players essentially.

Well, this is why we're going to have a long, ugly labor dispute.

Yeah.

Cause I think the owners are like, what are we doing?

Kyle Tucker just got $240 million.

What are we doing?

Well, that's why he was in What's the West doing?

Kyle Tucker.

I don't understand.

They can't lock out.

Baseball, with the momentum that they have, they need to figure it out.

Because if they get a lockout here... Never underestimate baseball being dumb.

This has been my entire life.

All right, I want to re-award the manager of the year from last year if we can.

Are we allowed to retroactively- To re-litigate it?

Interesting.

I don't know if it's allowed, but let's do it anyway.

Okay, so last year's National League Manager of the Year was Pat Murphy of the Brewers.

Here's something that you can talk about.

I'm starting to think that the National League manager of the year should have been Rob Thompson of the Phillies.

The reason that I think it should have been Rob Thompson of the Phillies is the Phillies were 30 games over 500.

They won the East very easily.

The next closest team was the Mets who had a meltdown. the Phillies the reason I would give him manager of the year now retroactively is the Phillies appear to be in shambles they had Kyle Schwarber who was runner-up for the MVP they re-signed him but outside of that and some you know pieces here and there that they've added Bryce Harper is feuding with Dave Dombrowski who is the president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski at the end of the season said that Bryce Harper's season while he was an all-star was not elite Bryce Harper then got upset by this.

He said, I thought that we were supposed to keep things in house.

Why is he going out?

Why is he saying this publicly?

Bryce Harper, who loves social media now, who does all kinds of things, where he has his weird diet and he cooks all these different things.

Put up something on Twitter in December where he was in the lab, if you will.

He was in the batting cages wearing a shirt that said not elite on it.

So he was clearly taking a shot at Dave Dombrowski.

It has since been resolved allegedly, that where Bryce Harper says that he and Dave Dombrowski have spoken, and it's water under the bridge.

They're going to move on.

But you have one of your highest paid players and superstars here feuding with the president of baseball operations who I also hate, by the way just because again, childhood grudge.

Dave Dombrowski came in.

We win the World Series in 97, 98.

He trades absolutely everyone.

Then he goes, how do you feel about Dave Dombrowski?

He helped you get a World Series.

Do you feel positively?

He did.

He kind of like mortgaged everything, but we did get the World Series.

So he technically did his job and did what he promised he would do.

But I wouldn't say he left the team in great shape.

That's what he does, though.

He kind of leaves like the cupboards barren after he'll win a World Series.

He's like an Adam McKay movie.

It's like the Dave Dabrowski play where he just he has this objective and hopefully you get it.

And if you don't get it, you're screwed afterwards.

I never considered him the Adam McKay of baseball.

Also going on with the Phillies and why Rob Thompson should have won manager of the year.

Nick Castellanos essentially got kicked off of the team.

So he last year got in a disagreement with his manager in a game in June.

He hits a grand slam.

They win a game.

He comes to Miami.

He's from Miami.

His fans or family in the crowd watching the game.

They pull him from the game, give him a scheduled day off.

And he decides to come back with a beer into the dugout.

I like that.

Where he's then gonna go and he's gonna call out Rob and he's gonna give him a piece of his mind.

Now, other Phillies teammates say, what are you doing?

They take the beer away from him.

They sent him back.

He's then benched the next game.

No one hears.

Any of this went on until about a week ago, when they mysteriously released Nick Castellanos.

They owed him $20 million.

He ends up signing with the Padres for the league minimum.

You're wondering what exactly happened here.

Nick Castellanos puts out a post on Instagram where it's a handwritten note explaining what happened.

And then he like, labeled it the Miami incident, which the majority of people had no clue even happened.

So he outed himself on the Miami incident.

Then all the players are asked about this.

This Rob Thompson somehow has his president of baseball operations feuding with one of their biggest stars.

He has a player getting benched in the middle of a game, coming in with a beer, fighting with him, kept that under wraps for six months until they could quietly release him.

And then he apologized on his own about the situation, I guess fearing that he was going to be outed.

This guy did an incredible job.

Because all of this while they finished 30 games over 500 and easily won their division and had to deal with all the crazy Philly fans and people like the bundle and shield and Chris Ryan just bitching about their team every every day.

I hate Phillies fans.

That's another one.

We don't need to get into that today, though, I suppose.

I don't even think Philly fans like Philly fans, though.

I have a theory, and I wonder how you feel this.

I feel like if you actually love your team, you have to hate your team, right?

But no one else can hate your team.

You should be able to pick apart your team and get frustrated and just absolutely hate them.

You hate your star play, you hate everyone.

But if someone else comes in like oh, your team sucks, like my team doesn't suck, what are you talking about?

And then you go after them yeah, but to actually love your team i feel like you can't actually be happy.

You just described every single nba team reddit page where they bitch about their team constantly.

But then if a national person comes in and says something, it's like how dare he?

Well, how dare you made that brandon ingram comment.

That's the theory behind Dave Dombrowski is he was just saying this and being critical of his guys to try to light a fire under him, which I don't buy.

Dave Dombrowski sucks.

That guy's the worst.

All right.

Give us, give us a last thing and then we're going to go.

All right.

Last thing.

And this is something that if you say out there, people are going to kind of hold on to.

We'll, we'll burn through the others.

You don't need to get them.

Last thing.

Watch out for the pirates.

The Pirates finished last season 71 and 91.

So this is a team that seemingly, you know, with the Brewers in their division, with the Cubs in their division, they're not going to go on a serious run.

But they added a first baseman and Ryan O'Hearn from the Padres.

They added a second baseman and Brandon Lowe with 30 home runs last season.

Oh, I had him on my keeper team.

Are you keeping him for next year?

But not because he's in the National League.

We lost him.

He crossed over into the other portal.

We're out.

How do you handle that?

It's just out.

It's gone.

You don't get like a compensatory pick or something?

It's like he got wiped out in the war.

He's just done.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's sad.

It's sad.

Are you going to miss him?

Yeah.

Not really.

All right.

So they got Brandon Lowe.

They got Marcelo Zuna who hits home runs.

They got Jake Mangum who's a power hitter.

Last year, they only had pitching, but they didn't really have any hitting.

So you had a situation where Paul Skeens had horrible run support.

He had a horrible wins-loss record because he was never getting any runs to support him.

This year, they upgraded the offense.

They have the top prospect in baseball in Connor Griffin.

Shortstop.

Last year he hit 333 over 900 OPS, 21 home runs across different levels in minor league baseball, 65 stolen bases.

This is one of those where, honestly...

I didn't want to tell you about him.

And I don't know if you're the same way where I feel like I find someone that certain people know about.

I'm worried that people in my league might see this and then say you know what?

We need to go after this?

Connor Griffin.

And then they might get him.

Also, didn't mention him earlier because I was saving him until the end.

Connor Griffin also leads Major League Baseball in spring training home runs.

He has two home runs this season already.

He's cranking it.

Keep an eye on Connor Griffin.

Paul Skeens is there.

Mitch Keller's there.

He signed an extension.

Jared Jones is coming back from Tommy John surgery.

The rotation is going to look good.

They also have arguably the best pitching prospect in baseball Bubba Chandler, who had a 31 to four strikeout to walk ratio in 31 innings last season.

And his name's Bubba, which is a great baseball name.

So huge win.

Keep an eye on these pirates.

I'm telling you, they're going to be pesky.

I'm not 80 plus wins on Fando plus one 12.

You can get frisky and go 90 plus wins at plus five 20 or take them for the division at plus six 50.

See, I like having the one random team in the national league to root for every year.

I usually bet on one team because I don't, otherwise I wouldn't follow the national league at all.

But if I have a team, I'm like, all right, I'll adopt this team this year.

So maybe that'll be my team, the pirates, but you get skeins.

Yeah.

I used to do that with the AL just cause I'm an NL guy.

So I used to say like, I could, I could root for, you know, this team.

And it was like if I was in that city that year, like if I went to a game in Baltimore.

I'm like ah, I'm going to root for the Orioles this year.

You know, I'm going to root for the A's cause I like Seth, but it's also keep an eye on the A's.

We don't have time, but keep an eye on the A's.

No, the A's, the A's are loaded.

Yeah.

And they have a bunch of young dudes.

They have a lot of young guys.

I just wonder.

The thing is, is that the part that they play in that minor league park?

It's great for their hitters, but horrendous for their pitchers, because the ball just flies out of there.

Yeah, they're over under for wins is 75 and a half.

What were they doing, by the way?

We don't need to get into this today, but they moved out of Oakland to move to Las Vegas, where they don't have a stadium in place yet.

They're in Sacramento just in purgatory.

Why?

Why did they do this?

Why are we here?

There's things that happen in baseball and it's been going on my whole life that there's just no explanation for.

It's like they basically didn't want to take shit for being in Oakland anymore when they were going to leave.

So they're like, we'll just go over here.

It's like a divorced dad moving out and just grabbing any apartment just to get away from the house for two years.

Very strange.

But they're stuck in it.

They're stuck in this house.

They don't have a new house.

Yeah.

I'm also dubious of baseball in Vegas, but that's a story for another time.

Yeah.

A positive thing.

I know that it's going to be indoors.

It's not going to be outdoors with people baking, but I'm just not positive.

Baseball in Vegas makes sense.

The tourists are going to come after, like the pool parties, and after this year to go watch the A's play.

I don't.

And I don't think it's like the NBA where it's like Anthony Edwards is in town.

Wemby's in town.

I don't think baseball works that way in the same kind of thing.

You know, a lot of times it's like it's the Royals and it's a Wednesday.

Well, also, if they're in town, they're in town for like three games.

Like, oh, we'll go to like the third game.

Then like, ah, something came up.

Like, I'm not going to do that.

I'm dubious to this.

And you're going to come back for the start of the season.

We'll do some sort of preview.

So this is another thing with baseball.

I never know when the season starts anymore.

Now it's like March 25th range.

So yeah, it's like last week of march.

I know the thing is they also have like a weird thing i need to see because i'm not sure if they have the international game that they start on that.

They have some seasons where it's like here's an international game in japan, and then they come back and then those same teams go and play like two more spring training games yeah, after games that actually counted, and then the season really starts.

But it's like last march 25th, yankees san francisco Taking place in San Francisco.

Okay.

Yeah.

There you go.

That's on Netflix, right?

That was one of the things.

Baseball's on Netflix this year.

It's on Peacock.

It's all over the place.

It's like every sport now.

Part of the fun of following the sport is trying to figure out what channel it's on for the first five minutes.

Yeah.

I'm just figuring out the NBA in mid-February, end of February.

It's like, oh, it's Monday.

It's a peacock day.

It's just starting to set my head.

All right, Billy Gil.

It's Prime Fridays.

Billy Gil, great to see you.

Thanks.

Thanks for having me.

All right.

That's it for the podcast.

Don't forget, uh, rewatchables.

We did crazy, stupid love me, Mina and van.

If you missed it, if you didn't see that, that one's up there for this podcast.

Thanks to Kyle and Tate.

Thanks to Billy.

Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well.

And I'm going to be back here on Thursday with one more episode.

See you then.

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[The NBA Draft Dilemma and MLB Spring Training Outlook]-[A Loaded NBA Draft Debate, Wemby’s Finals Shadow, and Fun MLB Story Lines With Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Billy Gil]

📋 Summary

The NBA Draft Conundrum: Analyzing the Top Prospects

The Mystery of Darren Peterson

AJ DeBansa: The "Sure Thing"

Cam Boozer and the Depth of the Class

MLB Spring Training and the "New Body" Watch

The Dodgers Monolith and Front Office Chaos

The "New Body" and Rule Changes

The Clint Hurdle Phenomenon

Final Outlook: The Pirates and the A’s

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[The NBA Draft Dilemma and MLB Spring Training Outlook]-[A Loaded NBA Draft Debate, Wemby’s Finals Shadow, and Fun MLB Story Lines With Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Billy Gil]

📋 Summary

The NBA Draft Conundrum: Analyzing the Top Prospects

The Mystery of Darren Peterson

AJ DeBansa: The "Sure Thing"

Cam Boozer and the Depth of the Class

MLB Spring Training and the "New Body" Watch

The Dodgers Monolith and Front Office Chaos

The "New Body" and Rule Changes

The Clint Hurdle Phenomenon

Final Outlook: The Pirates and the A’s

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