This is episode 432 with physiotherapist.
Host of the Run Smarter podcast and author of the book Run Smarter, Brodie Sharp.
Welcome to the Strength Running Podcast.
We surround you with the same experts as pro runners.
So keep listening to hear coaches, physical therapists, strength experts dieticians, sports psychologists and other thought leaders give you the best guidance possible to take your running to the next level.
I'm your host, Coach Jason Fitzgerald.
I'm a former cross country and track athlete for Connecticut College.
I've been coaching runners since 2010, and I'm a former columnist for Trail Runner Magazine.
You can learn more about me and strength running at strengthrunning.com.
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My guest today is a runner, high rocks athlete, running coach physiotherapist, author and host of the Run Smarter podcast, Brody Sharp.
He has certifications from the Running Clinic, the Running Repairs Course, Sports Medicine Australia and Athletics Victoria Run.
Today we're talking about the learning process around running injuries.
And a big thanks to a listener named Tom for asking about this topic and giving me the idea for this episode.
I've always thought of the improvement process and the injury recovery process almost as detective work.
You have to uncover clues about what works for you, what might be causing your injuries, and continuously update your training based on that info, so that you're incorporating everything that you're learning.
And today we're going to dive deep into this process, talking about what you can learn from injuries, what that might mean for when you're healthy, how to update your training to reduce your risk in the future, and a lot more.
Now, if you're an injury-prone runner, I get it.
I had a period of my running career where I had almost every running injury that you possibly can imagine.
Achilles tendinopathy, plantar fasciitis, IT band syndrome.
I had problems with my SI joint, all kinds of different muscle strains.
I always felt like I was either injured or on the verge of an injury.
And thankfully I was able to turn things around and right the ship.
So I've basically not had a real serious injury in quite a few years.
Now you can learn from my mistakes and structure injury prevention strategies directly into your training with our free prevention series that you can sign up for today at strengthrunningcom.
Slash prevention.
I'll also include our complimentary ebook that features the recovery advice of nine elite athletes.
And now, without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with Brody Sharp.
All right, here we go.
Brody Sharp, welcome back to the podcast.
Thanks for having me back on.
I am pumped.
Well, I am pumped because we are doing a listener-generated episode.
I wanted to give one of our listeners a special thank you for... giving us this idea.
Tom emailed me a couple weeks ago and had this question about okay, we recover from an injury, but how do we then learn from it?
What is possible to learn from an injury?
What do we look for?
What does that process look like?
And I wanted to get a not only a running coach, but a physical therapist who has experience both on the training side but then also on the recovery side, to talk about all the different things that we could potentially learn from an injury.
And also what do we do with those learnings after the fact?
So Brody, thanks again for being here.
Maybe we can start with just like, what is even possible to learn from a running injury?
What kind of insights can it potentially give us?
There are a ton of insights.
You know, the goal of most runners is to okay, increase your running performance and keep reducing your risk of injury.
It's like reducing risk of injury is a big, big motivating factor.
And so if we can learn anything, I would say the big number one topic that should be occupying your mind is what caused this in the if retrospectively, we can look at what we've done, any training errors, any sort of changes that may have made in order to you know self-reflect.
What have we done?
What have we done wrong?
Is there something, some sort of mishap that went wrong?
Because people just straightaway dive into rehab without looking at what went wrong in the and become resilient because of this process that's undergone.
Because if people have listened to your podcast and my podcast, we know that most running-related injuries are due to some sort of imbalance between training load and your capacity or your ability to recover and absorb that training load.
If there's a mismatch there, then that's typically where these overuse injuries lie.
And so let's unpack that.
What happened in my training load?
Was it my increase in weekly volume?
Was it my buildup in speed?
Was it my transition in running shoes?
Was it the transition to different terrains?
Was it the hills that may have been too much for my body?
And we want to look back on that just to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistakes.
Because I'm sure you've seen with a lot of injured runners, they repeat the same mistakes over and over, without exactly like we can learn from it, but like identify it in the first place.
And if you're unsure, then let's dive deeper.
It might not be the training loads.
It might be under recovery.
It might be something to do with your nutrition.
It might be something to do with your sleep.
Sleep is really, really important.
And if we know anything from the research, a really nice paper from Richard Johnston, who followed athletes, these endurance athletes, for a year and found that if we track people's sleep, you are.
32 more likely to be injured the following week if you've reported some sort of negative health outcome revolving around sleep and recovery the week prior.
How many of us say, you know what?
I haven't been sleeping well the last few days.
Let me just dial back my training load proactively.
No one does that.
They're like, no, I've got a 10 miler on my schedule.
I'm going to stick to that 10 miler because I need to get the mileage in.
And that's Step one.
If you are injured and you have been dealing with an injury, let's quickly capture that in the moment and say all right, what have I done differently?
What have I increased?
Have I had this same injury in the past?
Maybe the same mistake has popped up.
Let me write this down or solidify it and say, this was my training error.
This is what I can identify.
Let me make sure that I'm more resilient next time around, once I've negotiated this injury, in order to become more resilient moving forward.
Yeah, I love this.
I mean, it's almost like you're.
You have to become a detective and really start.
You know unearthing all the potential clues that might give you a reason why you potentially have this injury.
And, you know, I did this intuitively for something different when I started running.
We did this a lot in with our races.
So after every race there's like this debrief you talk about it as a team.
You would talk to your coach about how the race was executed, what you thought you could do, what actually happened, any mistakes that you thought you could have made.
And so it is this very almost strict learning process that comes along with racing.
And I do feel like that is unfair.
Advantage when you start running is just to be on a team and race frequently and then just Continuously learn from those experiences.
So I've taken that same approach and then applied it to injuries later in my career.
You know it's no secret that I was a pretty injury prone runner during my college career and a big part of my college experience was figuring out why I got the latest injury and what I was doing in training.
Was this a sleep thing?
You know, in hindsight, of course, 2020.
But, you know, here's a tough question for you, Brody.
Is it possible not to learn anything?
Can we actually can we get an injury?
And then you know, go do our best to learn from it and find out.
Maybe there is nothing to learn from this experience.
Is this just one of those crazy random things that happens to athletes sometimes?
They get an injury and there's no clear culprit.
What do you do in that kind of a situation?
I would say it's very, very uncommon.
And I would say, if that is the case, we probably haven't dived deeper enough, or there's just been something that's gone by undetected, that we hadn't necessarily realized.
I mean, like we know, females are more likely to get injured at certain periods of their menstrual cycle just because their changes in estrogen and their ability for the tendon collagen to turn over.
And so they're more like subject to tendon injuries at that certain phase.
But not a lot of people know that.
And they can have good sleep, good nutrition, the exact same training schedule.
But if just knowing that isn't on someone's surface, that could easily go by and be like you know what.
This must've just been a random thing, but maybe there's a lot of things that I don't know, that we haven't uncovered yet.
Maybe you're fighting an illness that just isn't really that symptomatic on the surface yet.
Your immune system's kicked up.
It seems, if your body has undergone an overuse injury, which is most running related injuries, there's some sort of overuse there.
Like there's some sort of balance.
Like I say in the vast vast majority of cases um Sure, maybe it's extensive just to really do a thorough test and go through it.
And you say, you know what?
The big rocks, there's no big obvious change that I can pinpoint.
And I don't really have the resources or know how to really dive extensively.
And I'll just pass this off as just a random occurrence.
You can do that.
But I would say, if you're willing to dive deeper, you're probably likely to find the crucial bits of information.
But we can still learn.
I'll talk for the rest of this episode about other things we can look on.
Before I do, have you had any injuries?
When was your latest injury?
Do you know what might have caused that?
Let's see, Brody.
Well, four days ago.
I don't know if you call this an injury, a specific running injury, but four days ago I turned 42.
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
I celebrated with a trail run, very on brand, and just over a mile into the run, I took such a fall.
I haven't fallen this hard in years, and I have a giant scrape and bruise on my right hip.
Thankfully it doesn't hurt at all and I'm still running on it and I'll be just fine, so I don't really consider this a running injury.
It's not a repetitive stress injury.
I'd say a couple years ago, I tweaked my Achilles, so...
But I know exactly what I did.
I went for a single long run that was dramatically longer than any other long run I had done for the prior two months.
And, you know, I knew I was playing with fire and I got a little burned.
I managed it pretty well.
I had to reduce intensity in long runs, but I was able to run a little bit.
And over the course of two months, it resolved itself.
So that one was a little bit, you know, definitely... a clear training error.
And, you know, you'd think with all I know, Brody, I would not go and do that.
But, you know, sometimes we need to learn these lessons the hard way.
Probably a good time to bring up, like I like to remind runners that we can't get our risk of injury down to zero.
Well, we can.
We can get our risk of running-related injuries to zero if you just stop running.
But we're not going to do that.
Like you want to live life and have fun and do races and push your limits and those sorts of things.
That's a part of being a runner and enjoying life.
And so...
I think like how I like to describe it is we can't get that risk down to zero.
We can put safeguards in place to minimize or mitigate these risks as much as possible.
But in the instances you do start getting injured and you do start noticing symptoms, like our role should be okay.
Injuries are part of running, but let me just catch it as early as I can, make some very minor adjustments so that I can negotiate this injury without losing fitness and still stay pretty fit and active, because losing fitness is one of the major fears about people when they get injured and have to take time off.
But it's often ignored in the early days and they just run through it, run through it, run through it.
Then the injury gets worse and worse and worse.
And then they have to be forced to take a really significant downturn in their training.
And so I like to remind people don't be too hard on yourself if you do get injured, because it is a part of life.
But we can be a bit more rational and a bit more sensible in terms of our response to it, catching it early and then making the necessary adjustments to swiftly negotiate it.
Another thing like you can learn from injuries is like, did I ignore the early signs?
Were there any like early signs coming on that I ignored that then led to the injury?
You know, I've been managing like these really tight calves at the moment and I
It's been going on for the best part of like four weeks, four to six weeks.
And I have been training for high rocks races, which is a lot of like strength based stuff.
And over the past couple of months, I've put on a significant amount of muscle.
I weigh heavier now and my calves are just not handling it.
And I didn't realize that it was that much of an issue until one run, finishing my uphill, which I normally do every run.
My left calf kind of spasmed, tweaked. strained.
And I was feeling it the next day walking around in my calf.
I've strained this and I'm like, okay, what could have caused it?
Oh yeah, I've put on like four or five kilos.
And we know, through running your calves generate about eight to 10 times your body weight in force, every single step that you take.
And so if you're five, six kilos heavier, that's 50 to 60 kilos of force per step.
That's extra on top of the thousands and thousands of.
I probably had some early signs.
I probably had some tightness, and some more tightness than usual after the runs that I just ignored until it came to a strain, which now I've put safeguards in place and been negotiating that, waiting for my calves to adapt.
But that's what we can learn.
We can learn from the early signs.
We can learn about any changes.
My change was my body weight and make sure that these things are at top of mind for the next injury that might happen.
Yeah.
And I'm reminded too that there are different buckets or categories of things that could potentially cause an injury.
And we mentioned training errors.
There's also a lot of just lifestyle issues that could potentially contribute to your injury risk.
And I think, gaining some extra weight, four or five kilos heavier, and then continuing on with your normal training.
And I'm sure that HIROX training has a pretty high intensity component to that.
So that That doesn't surprise me too much that you're feeling that extra stress in your calves.
That one's a little tricky though, because it's almost a combination of two of some training issues here, but also the lifestyle issue of you just gaining some weight and then having your body have to adapt to that.
Let's talk a little bit more about the lifestyle aspect, things that can potentially exist that can contribute to your injury risk.
And then we can spend a little more time talking about the training related side of things, which I think probably has a bigger impact on your injury risk.
You know, from my perspective as a coach, some of the things that I'm always looking for is number one, like are you eating enough food period?
Are you getting enough calories?
Are you not experiencing low energy availability?
That is not only going to put you at a higher risk of injuries.
It's going to put you at a higher risk of some of the more serious injuries, like potentially stress fractures.
So that's always a lifestyle issue that I look for.
What are some of the things that you look for?
If we're on the diet side of things, I think that's, again, very important.
We want to look at total calories to match your energy output, want input to match output.
Therefore, you're just giving yourself the amount of building blocks.
If we're talking about adapting to your training, we don't get stronger during that run or that workout.
We get stronger after that workout, once we've given the body the necessary recovery and building blocks.
And so the building blocks comes with protein.
So, okay, step one, make sure we've got total calories.
Step two make sure we have the adequate amount of protein to rebuild.
After that workout session that run the exercise that actually breaks down your body, then we need to build up.
And so just making sure we've got that in place.
How much protein you need, what quality protein.
I'm not a dietician.
I'm not really going to advise on that, but consult a dietician.
Make sure your total protein is adequate and that it's the right amount of protein.
If we're looking at other lifestyle things.
I did mention sleep before.
I think that is huge for people.
You could absorb more training load just by getting more sleep, the balance then is there.
Like a lot of people go from training for a half marathon to a full marathon and they patiently get there, they adjust, they follow the right plans, they have the right intensity, the right buildups, but they just get to a limit where they start breaking down, they start getting injured, they're like, maybe I'll just not cut out for marathons.
Well, maybe your current recovery strategy, your stress management and your sleep and your nutrition hits a ceiling, at a certain mileage that you can't just recover from the weekly load that you're putting upon it.
And so that could just be mitigated if you enhance your sleep or monitor your stress and manage that a bit better.
I like to think about it as... You mentioned buckets.
I like to think of it like a cup.
When we do our strength training, our cardio, running all that sort of stuff, we're filling up our cup and the recovery aspect starts to empty our cup.
And we want to try to keep it as low as possible.
The closer we get that cup to the rim is when we start to really increase our risk of injury.
And some people, they go for a run and that fills up their cup, but then they're stressed at work.
They're in a high stress situation.
They're not sleeping that well.
Maybe their nutrition isn't well.
Not only does that not empty the cup, but that actually starts filling the cup.
Like your body's still in a physiological stress state, And so stress continues to build, either be from the running or from the emotional, psychological stress.
And then they go to bed, they don't get a lot of sleep, then they run again the next day.
And that cup just continues to build and build and build until risk of injury increases.
This is why there's a 32 increase in injuries when people report negative sleep patterns the week prior.
And it's just because they're not emptying their cup.
And so yes, lifestyle factors, stress will be a big one.
I would say sleep would be the biggest because that is the best way to empty our cup.
But stress can fill or stop emptying our cup in daily hours that are outside of our running and our workouts.
So yeah, I think there's ways we can be more careful and say okay, this training, this marathon prep, all that sort of stuff's a little bit more holistic than we once thought.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
And I'll just double click on the stress side of things.
I've mentioned before on the podcast in 2022, I got separated, I got a divorce.
It was not fun for me.
And I kept training through that experience.
But I was so limited because of just the personal stress that I was under.
I just couldn't really run roadie.
I would go out for a run, I'd be running a minute slower for my easy pace than I normally would.
I just, I had nothing left like in the tank.
And I think it's just a good, a really good example of of no matter what kind of stress you're experiencing, whether it's the stress of a 5k race that you just ran earlier today, or the stress of some relationship troubles or drama at work, you've got a big presentation coming up.
Your body treats all that very similarly.
Similarly, which is a word I try not to say publicly because I screwed up a lot.
And you're going to have those sky-high levels of cortisol and adrenaline and it wears down on your system.
And I think it's always helpful to think of it like if you are hormonally in that place, you are not gonna be able to recover from physical stress because your body is first trying to recover from that imbalance in hormones.
So if those stress hormones are high, that's the first thing your body's gonna try to deal with, rather than on muscle damage, on other things that are gonna contribute to your fatigue.
So I like that cup analogy of basically like you've gotta empty it with recovery because if it overflows we're gonna really risk that big injury.
So let's see.
We've talked about stress.
We've talked about both overall fueling, but also the protein needs.
I did a really great episode with a registered dietitian, Claire Shorenstein, on the new rules of protein intake that folks can check out.
I think that's really important.
Sleep is probably really high up there.
Is there any other lifestyle issues that you can think of that might impact a runner's injury risk?
I would say, if it's around lifestyle, I would say the last thing I probably think about is like their emotional state.
Cause, just when thinking about, like your, your experiences and your hassles and your like daily things that come up that led to you, um you know, feeling burnt out.
A lot of people are really emotionally wound up in training for races, preparing for races.
Like, especially if they do get an injury, it's like, okay, was it based on like ignorance?
Was it just something that, like I, was just patiently doing, or was I feeling like a sense of competition?
Was I just nervous about posting a really short easy run on Strava that, like my friends will see, and I was just building it up.
Am I competing against myself too much?
Am I like holding myself too accountable to, you know, run faster and improve, improve, improve?
Am, I really just like, emotionally too competitive.
That led to this in the first place, especially with negotiating injuries.
Once you are injured.
I see so often people stay injured because of their fear of losing fitness, because they just like this tension.
I often call it like tensions and reference points.
If someone's injured and they've been injured for like say, two months, there's this tension that really builds up, because they're like okay, this race is approaching and or I'm starting to lose more fitness.
It's been this long since I've done my long run or my fast run.
And that tension that builds up tends to snap as soon as they start noticing some improvements.
They'll notice a 50% improvement.
It's like, all right, I'm back.
That tension snaps.
And then they overdo things.
They run too far, run too fast.
And then they're back to flaring up that injury.
And then that tension builds up again, builds up again, builds up again.
And They often have these like reference points that I call like, oh, I used to run this far.
I used to run this fast.
I used to prepare for races this way.
And that's not necessarily working for you right now.
And like, in particular, as an online therapist, like most runners that I see are typically having this injury for 12 plus months.
So like by the time they get to me, they've had it for a very, very long time.
And so I often see these like boom bust patterns that they have.
They've had this injury for so long.
As soon as they feel a little bit better, they're jumping straight back into training, and then that boom bust starts again because of, like I say, those tensions and those reference points that they hold in their mind.
And so if I'm looking at lifestyle factors, we've covered a lot.
The last thing I would say is, like, what's your emotional state?
What's your personality traits?
What's like those sorts of things that may lead you to developing an injury or staying injured once you do develop an injury.
We do know that, if someone is sort of like a type A perfectionist, that we've actually got research to link perfectionists to injuries just because they are one to drive themselves a bit more, to take less time off.
And so, yeah, we need to work out.
Sometimes those type A personalities really help when they're feeling good and they're motivated and they're pushing for a marathon goal best.
But sometimes there's some scenarios where it's not serving them.
And so we need to recognize that and say, all right, is this helpful?
Are there ways that I can change my way of thinking, looking back at historically how I've been managing past injuries and those sorts of things?
Do you think social media and sort of the digitization of training has made this issue a little bit worse?
Because certainly, if you are, you know, sort of broadcasting your running journey out on Instagram or you've got a lot of people following what you're doing on Strava.
You know like, I know people who you know don't really include all of their warmup running in their Strava file because they want the Strava file to look as impressive as possible.
Earlier today, you know, I went on Instagram a 15 mile run incredibly slow, but I was going to drop off my ballot because it's election day here.
And I just was like, hey, let me go run the three quarters of a mile over to the ballot drop box.
And I tried to stay in zone one the whole time.
But the whole time I'm thinking, Brody, this is not going to look impressive on Strava.
And so I just wonder if you know, we're shooting ourselves in the foot a little bit by constantly playing this comparison game.
Because I do think it makes it more likely that we will make a decision that isn't in our best interests.
Again, yeah.
Is social media negatively influencing?
I'd say it requires self-reflection. an honest assessment, is this helpful or hindering?
Because sometimes it can be helpful.
Some people can be a bit more motivated.
I know a lot of new runners get on social media and they become a bit more inspired, which makes them more able to keep consistent with their training and enjoy their training and looking forward to it and getting some praise and that sort of stuff.
There's merit to say that could be helpful for some people, but sometimes it can be unhelpful.
And I think with enough self-reflection, some honest self-reflection.
You can kind of find out what is and what isn't helpful for you in these situations, because maybe you don't post all your runs.
I don't know.
Like I made a decision probably 10 years ago just to go off Strava.
So I just, I don't post any of my runs.
But that's because I just get the joy of running.
I don't need that validation or posting anything like that.
This is a decision I made because I'm like okay, I don't To your point.
I don't want to go for every run and think okay, people who are following me on Strava are going to see this.
Because sometimes I like to keep it really, really slow.
Sometimes it's like, okay, I just want to know that it's just me who's doing this.
And I don't really need that accountability.
So yeah, decision that I've made, but could be different for other people.
Yeah, for sure.
And I do like how Strava allows you to hide certain pieces of data so that if you don't want to share, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Like if you want to share, if you want to hide your heart rate, for example, things like that, I think that's a good opportunity to you know, keep some things private so that you're not constantly exposing yourself to that comparison game.
Cause I think it can be destructive.
It's not that it is destructive.
It's that it simply warps our thinking ever so slightly, so that we are just a little bit more likely to to push the pace, so that our average pace is under a certain benchmark, or that.
You know, I want to finish this 10-mile run in under 80 minutes and I just need a 730 final mile to do it.
I am guilty of that myself because I want it to sort of look nice in the training log.
But that's not always what our body needs.
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Let's talk a little bit more about the actual benefits.
Training errors that are probably the most likely cause of most runners running injuries.
Um, you know, i remember very clearly my college cross country coach talking about what he called the three twos, which is something i've started talking about a little bit more.
I recently went back to my old college and we went to his hall of fame induction ceremony.
So i think i've just got my college coach on the brain a little bit more.
But he always warned us about the three twos too much mileage at too fast a pace, too soon, before you're ready for it.
And so it's a way of holding runners back a little bit, of making us be a little bit more conservative or cautious with our training, so that we're not just increasing either the volume or intensity too much.
But then, within that framework, there's almost an unlimited number of training errors that you could potentially make.
And maybe before we get into each one of those errors.
I think this process becomes a lot easier when you keep a training log And Strava is great, but a lot of the times Strava doesn't include the subjective.
And maybe because I've kept a handwritten training log for so many years and I'm a coach, I always want runners to keep a handwritten log and actually write down some subjective feelings about how something went, how a workout was executed, how they felt on a given day.
And I feel like that is some of the best data that you can get, because you can see those trends over time.
So I'd love your thoughts on that.
And then maybe we can start talking about some of the biggest number one reasons for injuries from a training perspective.
I mean, the biggest one would be an increase in mileage.
I would say that's probably the most common.
And we can kind of, if someone really wants to delineate this into like a really simplistic way of looking at it.
I like to take someone's workouts by minutes and then multiply that by the average effort that was done in that session.
And it's typically like an effort out of 10, 10s being like, that was an all out effort.
I gave it my all.
And, you know, your one to twos, twos to threes being like, okay, that was like, you feeling fresh.
How many people go for a run a slow, easy run and actually feel just as fresh as when they started or feeling like they can do it all over again?
Not a lot of people do that, but that would sort of be like your twos and threes.
So I would take the average, not the end of the workout, the average effort throughout that entire duration and multiply that by the amount of minutes that that session was.
And that would be your training load, we can call it.
And then we start looking at those units of measurement throughout the week, week by week, and just making sure that we're tracking that measurement because, to your point about the three twos, we're looking at too much and too fast.
Uh, that covers like.
That calculation on its own will generate the amount of minutes, but also generate the intensity or the speed or the effort.
Uh, and why I like that also is because. speed.
Like.
You can look at your pace, but it can have different effects on your body based on your hydration status, how hot it is, how humid it is, how well you slept, what your stress is like.
You can run at a seven minute per mile pace and it feel different on one day to another.
It's more stress on your body from one day to another based on all those elements that I mentioned, but the effort will change.
The effort will be different.
And so that's when you factor that into your calculations and then say all right, let me look at my weekly training load and then see, am I building upon that by 5 or 10?
And let me just see how my body's feeling week by week by week.
That would be a really nice tool if someone's writing down, like you say, if you're encouraging people to write manually, write these training logs, just calculate that number and then just see where we're at.
Are there any big jumps per day?
Have I gone from a 600, week by week by week, to a 800, and then I developed a bit of soreness after that.
Okay, well, maybe my limit's there.
Or week by week, did I increase by 5% and then went to 15%, and then my body started showing signs.
This is how we can start calculating where your limitations are or how long we should wait before we adapt.
For me in particular, a few years ago when I started training for High Rocks, this is the exact method that I used because not exactly always runs it is on the rower it's on the skier it's like doing burpee jumps it's it's a lot of stuff that isn't running that i can calculate my running distance and my speed but i can calculate the duration of that exercise and i can calculate the average effort of that exercise so i accumulated it all and people can do that with their cross training as well factor that in i actually had a actually had two scores at the end i had my accumulated running total training load but I also had my total training load incorporating all my other workouts and all my other cross-training stuff just to see if there's anything that I needed to uncover there.
But I would really factor that in for people in terms of training principles and what to track, just to make sure that at least that training load side of things, not necessarily a little bit to the recovery side, but we're covering most bases.
Just following that simple calculation.
Yeah, I like how it includes two different things, both your volume and your intensity, and you can actually put a numerical value to it.
And so if you get consistent with tracking that you're going to be really good at seeing any changes over time.
And you mentioned this earlier like that's a big reason why runners can expose themselves to higher injury risk is changing something and then not allowing themselves to adjust to it.
And it's not just volume or intensity.
It could be something like shoes.
It could be something like vertical.
You know, all of a sudden you go from living in Kansas in the United States, which is flat as a pancake, and then you come out here and you're my neighbor in Colorado and we're going to run in the.
You're not used to that vertical and that could be an additional training stress.
What are some of those kind of offbeat things that runners may not think about all the time but that nevertheless could potentially be an injury risk if not introduced a little bit more gradually?
Shoes would definitely be up there.
I would say, Maybe someone decides to change their running mechanics as well, for whatever particular reason.
That's a good one.
They might read that a change in foot strike or a change in cadence or just changing how they move through space.
Maybe their running coach has suggested they change something up which may be to their benefit, but also may be changing loads on their body.
Like maybe an increase in cadence is required based on how they're running, which is like the amount of steps that you take per minute, but it shifts load and maybe it shifts load to an area that can't necessarily handle that load right now if done too abruptly and without that sort of adaptation phase to occur.
And so, yeah, I would say shoes is a big one because people change shoes a lot.
They change to super shoes.
They haven't tried them out.
They try zero drop shoes.
They try minimalist shoes.
They try, you know, max cushion shoes.
And some of these can be good.
I would say like they all have their purpose.
But we just need to recognize that if it's a change in your footwear, it is a change in your load to your body.
I like to say, just say someone has knee pain and we want to redirect the load away from the knee.
There is research to show that like the more traditional.
If we go from a more traditional shoe to like a minimalist shoe or like a zero drop shoe yes, it does reduce the load on the knee but it doesn't reduce the overall load on the body.
It redirects that load.
And so that's when the calves and the Achilles and the feet have to absorb a bit more load.
And maybe that calf and Achilles isn't ready for that yet.
Maybe your plantar fascia isn't ready for that yet.
And just a very gradual adjustment is required.
Otherwise we start to get these overuse injuries.
And so just needs to be cognizant of that.
Just need to be conscious of that and not just wait until there is an injury to be like okay, I knew that transition was a bit too much.
Um, there was a really nice study, a very small study I think it was about 15 athletes, but they had them.
They were accustomed to your traditional running shoes and they gave them barefoot shoes, like zero, like 100 on the minimalist index really, really minimalist, as minimalist as you can go and said here are the guidelines to transition safely.
Follow these guidelines and let's just see if we improve your running performance and those sorts of things.
And I think 12 out of the 14 got injured.
And none of them followed the guidelines that were recommended.
And I think a lot of them were actually foot stress fractures.
Some of them were like shin splints and those sorts of things.
But yeah, just so you know, that's like an extreme example of going from traditional shoes to like really extreme minimalist, barefoot type of shoes.
But that's like a 80% chance or like 80% of the field got injured in that particular study.
So do need to recognize that Transitioning gradually into these shoes is warranted, because the risk of injuries can be quite high.
What are your thoughts on trail running in terms of introducing it gradually?
I have some mixed thoughts on this.
I sort of think trails can be somewhat protective from injury and they're really only a risk for injuries if you're on some really gnarly technical trails and you spend a lot of time on them.
But in my experience, most runners, when we talk about trail running, we're really talking about off-road running the dirt path that might be in your neighborhood, running on grass, running in some conservation land which might have some fairly well-manicured trails.
I get a lot of questions from runners who might be a little bit nervous about getting on there because of the injury risk, but I really don't see too much of an injury risk.
And this might just be one area where I'm just much less conservative.
I would say it depends on how much trail experience you have had.
We just don't want abrupt shifts.
We just don't want.
If your body isn't used to it, then just transition gradually, because trails can be a wide spectrum of what we're actually talking about, like you suggested.
It can be a bit more forgiving in terms of ground reaction forces or changing things up.
One thing we like about trail running is that there's... a bit more variability in your step.
There's a bit more variability in like you're going uphill, downhill.
You're positioning your feet slightly differently, you're changing directions, you're sort of swerving a little bit.
And that can vary the load on the body as opposed to like one consistent planting my foot.
The exact same way, the exact same load, the exact same ground reaction force, the exact same sort of pavement.
And that can sort of like that lack of variation can load up certain part of the body more consistently.
So that variation can be very helpful.
But yeah, I would say, if someone's never done trails before and they want to start doing trails, just do it like do it once a week.
Maybe just make sure it's just short and easy to start with and see how your body feels afterwards, and then just slowly introduce it.
Because if there is hills then yes, it will put a lot more work on your calf and your Achilles and like those things that require a lot of push off.
But if there's a lot of downhills, there's pretty steep link between running downhill and itb friction syndrome, for example, and so uh, we just want to make sure your body just says oh, that was different, let me adapt to that.
I can see what you want me to adapt to.
Let me have some time to absorb this training load to, to absorb this particular stimulus that you've given me, and i'll bounce back better and stronger than next time, and then next time you just do a little bit more and we just same that.
We same way we would transition shoes.
We just want to be sensible about it.
Uh, but Eventually, once you've adapted to it similar, if you've adapted to multiple shoes, you are now more resilient and you can vary things up a lot more and you're a bit more unshakable the more times you subject your body successfully to different stimuli.
And so, yeah, I'd say trails can be great.
If you've never done it before, just don't go overboard your first exposure to it and just let your body adapt.
Yeah, probably the biggest risk is, you know, falling on your face like i did last weekend and, you know, scraping yourself up and getting a good bruise.
Yeah um, i i want to share another potential risk for injuries and get your thoughts on it, and that's in the density of your intensity.
So this is an issue that i get with with a lot of, you know, type a runners, like we talked about.
Um they, they love their two workouts, hard workouts a week um.
Sometimes though, when they're reshuffling their schedule around, I find that a lot of runners condense a lot of their hard work for the week into just a few days.
And I'm always very cognizant of being just very mindful of having enough easy days in between a workout and another workout or a long run.
Because if you're doing a workout on Wednesday, a workout on Friday and then a long run on Saturday boy, that makes me a little bit nervous because there are three.
Hardest days are in this pretty short block of time.
And I, just as a coach, I like to spread things out a little bit more.
Give you enough recovery in between your key sessions.
And usually that means if you're doing a long run in a workout, it's two to three days in between those two key sessions.
It gets a little dicier if you're doing two hard workouts in a long run, but we basically want to have a little bit of time in between those key sessions.
Because really condensing that hard work, whether it's intensity, and then you layer on the demands of a long run, that can really spike your risk too.
Definitely agree.
That's definitely safeguards to put into place.
I guess my easy answer would be, it is what your body's capable of recovering from.
It's not...
Often, and I'd say it's very, very rare, but some people can do a really hard session, have a really good night's sleep eat, drink really well.
Maybe they're super young as well because people bounce back harder when they're super young.
And maybe they can bounce back and condense those hard sessions into three days or four days.
But like I say, it's not common.
You just listen to your body and say, have I really absorbed that?
Am I waking up feeling quite fresh?
Or, after doing like a hard workout rest day, hard workout the day after that?
Am i negotiating it?
Um, because most people, once they're practiced, intuitively listening to their body, they can sort of recognize it.
Um, but i would say for most, definitely for most, having your safeguards in place is like spreading out those hard workouts can be a really nice kind of guide to follow, like we like guides we like.
So the 10 rule isn't really that evidence-based, but it's a nice guide for people to to follow, to gradually increase their weekly mileage by 10, week by week.
Like definitely has its limitations, definitely very, very um.
A rule that's like okay, let's follow it as a template for most, then maybe make some slight adjustments here and there based on the individual and their response um, but the other generic rule that we have is the rule of intensity distribution, which you're familiar with.
I don't know how you feel about it, but I know it's a pretty good rule to follow for most, where 80 of your weekly training load should be at a very, very low intensity.
We're looking at like zone two or just like conversational pace sort of stuff.
Not a lot of people run at that intensity.
They don't run slow enough on their slow days.
They think that they're running at low intensity when they really aren't.
But then that leaves 20 for people to feel fresh and go pretty hard and successfully tolerate those hard workouts.
So yeah, we want those safeguards in place, whether that's making sure your intensity distribution is well balanced, making sure your hard effort weekly structure is well balanced.
And then every four or five weeks, putting in a deload week there.
Just dial things down and let your body absorb things, Because I know, you know I'm preaching to the choir here.
You were actually on my podcast talking about deload weeks.
We had what I mentioned earlier that, like, people don't get stronger during their runs.
They get stronger after their runs once they've given themselves enough recovery time, the adequate necessary recovery time.
Most people can grasp that, you know, day by day by day by day.
But not many people grasp it month by month, by month by month.
Like you can have this four-week build where you're slightly stimulating your, your training load or pushing slightly above your training capacity so that you're just allowing your body, you're overreaching just slightly.
But then it's followed by a week of really absorbing everything that you encountered in the last four weeks.
And, like I say, it depends on people's recovery, how often that actually is in or how hard you're actually working.
So there's some individual variability that comes into that.
These are just general training principles just to make sure we're keeping that load versus capacity balance in check to mitigate these risks of injuries or reduce these risks of injuries.
Right.
We can't bring that risk down to zero, but we can certainly mitigate it as best as we can.
Let's try to put some of these learnings into practice.
You know okay, someone gets injured, they're depressed, this happens.
But they're looking through their log and they're They're trying to figure out what happened.
How would you then advise a runner to restructure the next season or the rest of their season once they come back?
How do you actually incorporate some of these learnings into the training process, so that you kind of just don't go back to the same bad habits?
So, for example, if you realize oh, I increased my volume too quickly, I guess you could just not increase your volume as quickly future.
But how can we make that a little bit more tangible for the listener?
How do you actually use this to become a better runner, so that you're not actually making the same training errors season after season?
They're not always straightforward, but they can be just as straightforward of like, okay to say, for your Achilles, my long run was too long.
I jumped it up by 30%.
And Let's just put that as a rule that I never increase my long run by more than 30%.
Let me plan out my long runs.
Let me make sure they're scheduled and on paper and executed, rather than just running to feel like why did I run too far?
Was it because I got lost and I couldn't find my car and I have to run back?
Or was I running with a friend who does a lot, longer of a run and I just want to stay with them.
I was trying to impress a girl, Brody, but that's neither here nor there.
Let's move on.
I'm sure there are plenty of other ways you can impress a girl, but we need to look at these things.
What caused the injury in the first place?
Most people can just say, okay, let me just put a rule in place.
We've talked about the intensity distribution.
We talked about the weekly mileage.
We talked about the effort out of 10 multiplied by the duration of the minutes of that session.
Let's uncover these things.
Was it sleep?
Do I need to improve my sleep?
I think, like we said, we're learning from every injury.
We can learn from these.
And I guess the strategic advice is based on the individual themselves.
But I think it's most of the time pretty obvious.
And if they're unsure how to execute it for the next season, then I'd say enlisting help such as yourself to say you know, what you haven't, you don't put in deload weeks.
Let's maybe put in a deload week and let's see how fresh you start feeling.
But the other thing that you can look at, which we haven't really yet discussed, if we're looking at making the next season better is do I have any weak links?
Like this is where like a physical therapist or a running coach may identify.
It's like hey, you've had three injuries in the last 12 months and they've all been like your calf Achilles foot.
Like what's going on there?
It's all always on the same side, always that same area.
Like, maybe there's some weak links here that we need to address.
Is it like, do we need to work on calf strength?
Do we need to work on, you know, wearing less minimalist shoes and like offsetting it with something?
Do we need to do less hills?
Do we need to just like just get that part of your chain stronger so you are a bit more resilient and you are a bit more fortified for the next training season?
Um, I've been subject to, like high hamstring tendinopathies in the past.
So I make sure that I mitigate those risks by doing really heavy strength training and strengthening out my hamstrings as much as possible, making sure any speed work is introduced really, really gradually.
These are like conscious decisions just because that has reoccurred multiple times in my, my past.
And so it might require some professional help to identify where those weak links actually are.
Uh, then you can just lay that into next season's training.
Okay, when I have my strength training, I am going to work on this because that is my weak link.
And what better way to become more resilient than to strengthen up your weak links?
Have that weak link that was once your weak link, your strongest link in the chain now and then see what's the next thing that might identify the next weak link in your chain, if you do so happen to push the limits.
So again depends on.
There's a lot of.
There's thousands of examples we can come up with where we need to make adjustments for the next season, but at least that gets people thinking.
Brody, you beat me to it.
I was going to talk about weak lengths right after this, because I think it's like the next kind of evolution of this conversation, which is you're probably going to find out that when you do either get injured or even in the very beginning of an injury, something starts becoming a niggle.
You just start feeling a little bit of discomfort, right?
Most runners will find that they have one or two areas that they are just more susceptible to.
You know, for me personally, probably my number one weak link is my left IT band and then my left Achilles tendon.
And I have never really hurt my knee in any meaningful way.
My knees are no problem whatsoever but I've had pretty much every other running injury that exists really susceptible to those IT band and Achilles issues.
So for me it's like yes, I'm not going to do some of the poor training decisions that we've talked about in this episode.
But in the case of my IT band, I'm also going to do a whole bunch of things to focus directly on that weak link.
So yes, I'm going to strengthen my hips and my glutes, going to do a lot of exercise around that.
I'm going to do a lot of self-massage just to impact my range of motion.
I just want to feel more supple.
I know if I don't do that, I feel like my range of motion is a little bit more restricted.
Certain things trigger my IT band syndrome that are not poor training decisions.
So, for example, I can run on the left side of the road facing traffic with no problem whatsoever because of the camber.
The camber actually makes my left IT band feel better.
But if I go on the right side of the road, the camber exacerbates that issue.
And I just, I can't even run like a mile on the right side of the road.
I've got to move over.
And it's just like these weird little things that you learn about yourself over time.
And that's where I think having the training log really getting to know yourself, your body, how you respond to training, you know, kind of spending time in the subjective and writing notes about how things felt, how things impacted you over time is almost like the secret unlock to allowing yourself to really understand your body and the training process so that you can engineer a training program for yourself that has all these little things in it that, like you know, no coach who doesn't know you is gonna tell you to avoid the right side of the road.
Because I don't know, that's not really... a big injury risk, but for an individual, it might be.
And I think there's real value in understanding not just the big global training errors that lead to most injuries, but also you know more specifically to you how those impact your unique weak links.
I think that's really well said.
And we want to be scientists in a way.
We sort of want to, every year, be not necessarily faster and stronger, but just like smarter, based on all the experiences that we've gone through, based on the successes and the failures and the injuries and the PBs and all those sorts of things.
Like when someone runs a marathon, we want to be self-reflecting.
What went well?
What didn't go so well?
What am I changing?
Because self-improvement is part of life and enjoyment, those sorts of things.
And so yeah, you've made those decisions because of this conscious thoughts and all your past experiences and what's worked well, what hasn't worked well.
Like we should always treat these injuries and just general training like running little experiments.
What can I get away with?
How far can I run?
What should I, when I do my deload weeks, how much should I be dialing it back?
Is it 50% volume or 50% intensity or less or more?
Like all these sorts of things will ultimately lead to a very tailored and effective training plan for yourself.
And I say if people are listening to this and it's going all a bit over their head and they feel like they do need to enlist some help, I mean, that's where we're perfect for those sorts of things.
We can help identify those and run those experiments.
I'm very, very systematic with my training programs and getting people to listen to their symptoms and their feedback and how much they're recovering and how well they're sleeping and all those sorts of things.
It's crucial.
Like I say, this is a holistic endeavor, but it's also for just general wellness.
We feel better.
It's not just about running performance.
It's about longevity and wellness and just a holistic approach healthy lifestyle?
Yeah, these days I'm much more focused on feeling good day to day.
You know I will.
I will slow down, I will take a day off if I need to, and performance isn't my number one goal.
I think it just becomes hard with a performance oriented runner.
Because you know whether, whether this person's type A or not, there's that that need to drive forward and to keep the ball rolling and to keep the fitness growing and you know to to follow the training plan.
And, and, you know, maybe, maybe we can wrap with some really good advice.
I heard a while back, which was you know you should very much listen to your body, not the training plan.
And I say that as a coach who writes a lot of training plans and helps runners with those programs.
You know the plan is written in pencil and I would much rather see a runner uh, listening to their body and not listening to a training plan.
Because, you know, I think I heard a line something like the best workout that you could potentially do today is whatever workout your body is ready for and is able to absorb.
And that's not necessarily what is on your training plan.
And that could be because of lifestyle issues.
It could be because the plan is a little bit more aggressive or conservative, based on your adaptation rate and recovery rate.
There's so many things going on.
So I would certainly encourage runners to listen to their body more than their training plan.
And, like you said Brody, I think talking to a coach, talking to a physical therapist, talking to someone who really understands this stuff, even for one consult, could potentially be game-changing for your running, because you can just learn a lot more about yourself.
And, at the end of the day, I think this conversation is really focused on learning as much about you and how your body reacts to training.
And that's probably the number one way to learn from any running injury.
Cause it's really just about learning about yourself.
Yeah.
Really good final takeaways there because, like when we build training programs, it should just be a template, because we can't know six weeks from now if you are going to have a fight with your partner or if you are going to get sick, or if you are going to travel and, you know, find it really hard to fit into the schedule.
Change in weather, change in humidity, like development of an injury, like all those sorts of things we are unable to anticipate.
And the training plan definitely should be adjusted based on sleep and stress and lifestyle factors, as we've mentioned already in this earlier in this podcast.
And so make the adjustments.
The training plan is a template with some nice safeguards in place but, like you say, it requires listening to your body and making the necessary adjustments, because the there are things outside of our control.
There are unexpected circumstances that happen.
And what I'll finish with is you're kind of alluding to this before, but if we can learn anything from an injury, if we can learn anything else from an injury is to appreciate the moments when you're not injured, because a lot of runners are really hard on themselves.
And when they're injured, they're like, Oh my God, I wish I can just run pain-free.
That's like my number one thing.
I just want to run pain-free.
And so I say, great, we get them back.
And they're all of a sudden they're running pain-free.
I'm like, How good is this?
And they're like, yeah, but it's short.
It's not back to where I was before.
And I'm like, all right.
So we slowly build it up.
And then they're like, yeah, we're back to where we were before, but it's not as fast as I was.
I'm like, let's just celebrate.
Let's just practice gratitude and appreciation and not just be so hard on yourself, because it's always going to be this next thing that us running personality traits are going to be like drive drive, drive.
As you said, let's just enjoy, let's embrace running slow, just being healthy, being well, breathing in some fresh air, listening to the birds, like getting out in nature, like all those sorts of things, having the social element of running.
Like some, people love that social element of getting with their run group or races and those sorts of things.
Like embrace that because that's going to be the things that you miss when you are injured.
You can be like, oh, I just wish I could do that.
Take yourself back to the last time you were injured and think about how grateful you'd be in this moment.
And practice that.
That's what we can learn from an injury.
We can learn that when we're uninjured, how good life is.
And so I think that would be my last key takeaway.
I love it, Brody.
And as someone who used to get injured all the time, I had to learn that one the hard way too, like many other running lessons.
And if you can just embrace that, you're going to have a much better mindset about running.
So thank you for that.
Brody, you are such a resource for the running community.
Where can folks learn more about you, your work?
You have such an incredible podcast.
You have a book.
Why don't you tell the folks where to find all that?
Yeah, sure.
So Run Smarter is the book that I wrote, and it's containing all these universal principles to reduce your risk of injury, increase your running performance.
If people are interested in that, they can just buy it on Amazon.
I do have the Run Smarter podcast, which looks at the latest running research and how you can train smarter.
I think the last episode of every month, I skim through what the latest research has shown.
I pick about four or five papers that I find interesting.
That's like okay, this is what the research has come out in the last month about how you can help increase your running performance or reduce your risk of injury.
Or if you are injured, how you can rehab it effectively.
Most people are finding that really, really useful at this stage.
And so if you're interested in those resources, you can go check them out.
And you have a clinic in Australia.
For the off chance that some of our listeners are in your area, where's your clinic?
Well, as of about three or four years ago, I switched to 100% online.
And so I used to have a clinic at my facility, but I've since sold all the beds and all the equipment and just training online.
So if people are interested in that, runsmarter.online is my website to learn about my services.
Look at that, the evolution of Brody Sharp.
I love it.
Brody, thanks so much for your time, your expertise.
I hope folks check it out because you have a really good head on your shoulders when it comes to training theory and the science behind running.
And I think it's a real gift to the running community.
This was a lot of fun.
Thanks for having me on.
What an episode.
Thank you so much for listening and being part of our community here.
If you're getting value from the Strength Running Podcast, if the show has helped your running or made you rethink how you approach your training please please, consider leaving a review or a rating in Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen.
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If you have questions about your running, feel free to email me at support at strengthrunningcom, or you can search our website at strengthrunningcom.
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We'll be in touch.
