Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Round Table.
Kids are building huge offerings, I mean, followings, and even making money as social media influencers.
But at what cost? Is it becoming a kid influencer?
All fun and games? Or are there real risks when children take the spotlight so young?
And we're on a mission of starting your week with a motivational kick?
Our motivational Monday offerings will get you ready to tackle the week.
Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Round Table.
I'm Hei Young. For today's program, I'm joined by Yu Shun and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
First on today's show.
Have you noticed how kid fluencers are popping up all over social media?
These kids are racking up huge followings and becoming internet celebrities before they can even tie their shoelaces.
But as we celebrate their cuteness and creativity to some extent, let's ask the tough question.
Is it good or bad to put kids in the spotlight so early?
Let's explore the bright and dark sides of child fame.
So what are the popular kid influencers out there?
And this is not particularly a new concept, and we've seen almost a decade of its evolution.
Yes. So what we can see from this name is that kid influencer.
So these are children who have large followings on social media platforms such as YouTube or domestic platforms like Dohin, these kind of short video platforms, which can come from a social media page for the child or the child's family.
And they are essentially child entertainers.
So they're showing a kind of image and videos that giving people a sense of they are being so cute and attracting a lot of fans and followers and also clicks on their videos.
Yeah. These are child entertainers.
When we think of the word child entertainer, you probably think, no, I don't know, a child actor in a movie or a TV show, something like that.
This is exactly the same thing.
It's just a different platform and a different style of media.
But make no mistake about it.
These kids who have a lot of followers, they are entertainers for sure.
And also you can argue that it's the adults behind the kid that are creating the content and kids are basically the actors or the face of it.
And we can get a bit more into the details of what kind of content is popular here on Chinese social media as opposed to elsewhere in the world.
And I can't help but sort of chuckle, but also with a nervous chuckle when I looked at some of these contents.
Let's start with on Chinese social media.
What are the really popular ones these days in terms of kid influencers?
Some of these videos are showing a kind of contrast cuteness.
That means, you know, these kids, they're being more like adults and their parents are being more like a child.
So these parents play the role of being laid back or carefree while the child appears mature and sensible.
And this contrast highlights the children's, you know, qualities and also they may be being the role of even leading or taking the most important part of their lives instead of their parents.
I mean, they are trying to, like, waking up their parents up to get there to work and also start tell their parents to cook.
Yeah, like as if they are the head of the family or something like that.
And don't you find that to be a little strange as an international observer that this is trending on social media?
I think more like, you know, people are showing that, okay, now we are having these young parents and they are maybe in a way of acting like we're just still young.
We're not like that kind of adult adult where we can also be a little bit childish even though we have kids.
Yeah. And many times, I'm not sure about the Chinese content, but many times with reality shows it'll come off as if it's happening almost in real time when in fact many of these scenarios are staged or done again for the effect of the camera.
So maybe that's the case here as well.
You know, waking up dad or mom to make sure they go to work in the morning.
Yeah. Okay. Is that real or is it staged?
I don't know. But again, it's for entertainment value.
Right. I think that's key for people to remember.
And also, I think we've been imbued on social media in this world as well as reality TV as such for so many years.
We should have this awareness every time when I see a video and then, you know, it looks pretty normal and natural, but I'm always wondering, excuse me, why is there, if this is all natural, then why is there a video camera filming?
Yeah. And also it's obvious there are multiple cameras working at the same time and there are edits.
So we should know that.
And there's another thing that's interesting also trending on Chinese social media in terms of kid affluence or content that is showing genius kids doing all these incredible things that you cannot imagine for an average kid at that age, like calligraphy or, you know, just all kinds of like painting
and, you know, just having these exceptional talent that if I have a kid and I know, well, I sort of know what kind of parent I could become, but certainly I don't think I will become the really pushy ones.
But anyway, I would just wonder for an average parent and looking at your kid at the back seat of the car and can he or she ever do that?
I mean, yeah, this is okay.
These are two major categories of the content popular here in China.
What about elsewhere around the world?
Sure. Well, have you ever heard of Ryan Kaji before?
He's more famous than a lot of adults will ever be in their lives.
I looked it up before the show.
He's a very young child.
He has 38 .1 million subscribers on YouTube.
He hosts his channel called Ryan's World.
And since 2018, I think that's when he started it.
He's been taking the internet by storm.
And according to Guardian, he's around nine, 10, 11, 12 years old, somewhere in that age range.
He's made approximately $30 million per year from his YouTube videos.
$30 million per year.
He's not the only one either.
There's plenty of examples.
Anastasia Radzinskaya, she is a very young child from Russia.
121 million followers.
I just checked before the show, 121 million subscribers on her YouTube channel.
And she does things and Ryan does things like cooking and dancing and songs and toy unboxing and things like that.
Things that kids would enjoy watching.
Just showing their talents and maybe even showing people who will view or browse the YouTube to see that how different.
Is that what people would like to see?
I mean, they are showing quite as I said, contrast kind of cuteness they are showing because normally we'll see a kind of professional people who do these kind of talent things like dancing and singing or just unboxing things.
And they maybe are showing special personality that they have.
What do you think is drawing people to this content?
We as adults, we enjoy watching TV.
We enjoy watching dramas.
We enjoy watching reality shows.
In the past, children watched typically cartoons when they're young.
Saturday morning cartoons as a kid was a big thing for me and in my age group.
But with the advent of the they are also looking for entertainment that applies to them just as we as adults are.
So this is not surprising to me at all.
Parents these days, what do they do when they go on a road trip in the car?
They give the kids the tablet or if they're busy cooking, they give the kids the internet to play with.
This is the type of content that they're consuming.
This is fascinating.
Steve, you're actually opening up a whole can of worms to me right now because I did not think that it's children that are the target audience.
I thought it's family oriented people like adults.
That's what I assumed because when you look at, okay, maybe there's a difference in the content which kind of reflect the different target audiences potentially.
The stuff you mentioned on YouTube, yes.
And especially with unboxing, that's always about selling something.
And if it's kids singing and dancing, yeah, I think it makes sense if it's also kids watching this.
In China, I think we've got similar content to a certain extent.
But the examples that we gave just now about waking dad up when it's still dark outside, when you're being such a responsible kiddo as kids, that's more like, in my humble opinion, appealing to adults or parents or family oriented adults who are possibly viewers.
I mean, it's fascinating, the construction.
I'm sure it's families watching together as well.
Yeah. That's why - As a not married person, this is just really hard to fathom.
That's why I was thinking in this way, because many of my friends or colleagues, some of them are also really enjoying watching these kind of videos because they find the children especially adorable in the way that they appreciate and resonate with the parents' educational approach shown in these videos,
which makes them really like the children's personalities.
Or they're doing these kind of virtual parenting because they're seeing these kids as they're like cloud or virtual kids so that they can treat them because they see them so adorable.
Right. So maybe also trying to get a few parental tips and tricks along the way, learning something there.
And just time spent with your child as well, watching something.
Parents will often watch a Disney movie with their kids.
This is kind of the same thing.
It's just different content.
It's just you're watching another human being.
And also a lot of it is curated, is carefully shot, directed, organized and choreographed.
Can I just make that point again, please?
But yes, kid influencers alongside just so many different other types of social business models that have developed, matured, and there's an industry that's surrounding this kind of social media activity in China for sure.
And we see these incubators or talent agencies that have developed, they're called MCNs or multi -channel network companies.
And what's the role of these companies, sort of like industrial forces behind conjuring up social media kid influencers?
Yeah. So it actually these kind of agencies they, I mean, all of these, I mean, not all of these, some of these accounts on social media platforms that showing these videos or some of these we can see with more or a lot of followers, they all have, I mean, some of these have MCN agency backed.
So these agencies will help them to seek some of the themes on their videos.
They will find what kind of lines you can say and what kind of lines are popular recently.
And they will maybe tell them to, that's kind of tell them the kind of reaction or direction.
Yeah. It's like a management agency, right?
And I don't have any experience with children who had success on social media, but from my adult friends who had success on social media, when they start their channel, they're doing everything by themselves, right?
Everything from the production to the filming, everything.
And then once their channel gets a certain amount of attention, then these agencies will reach out.
And it's at that point that the influencer has to make a decision.
Do I want to continue to do this by myself or do I want the assistance of a management company?
The management company will help with promotion and things like this.
But of course it comes at a cost.
You pay for that agency to help you out.
And it's a decision that influencers need to make, which direction they choose to go.
It's kind of like I equate it to a singer, you know, when they're starting out, all of a sudden they'll get some attention, then a record label wants to sign them.
If the record label signs them, then they start to gain a little bit control over certain amounts of things in the singer's life.
Do you want that or do you not?
It's kind of the same thing, I think, with social media.
So do you see this happening in English speaking?
Oh yes, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as well.
And in China, thanks to the popularity of live streaming, that's like when people, you know, it's a live broadcast in front of a camera, but on social media platforms, but also selling stuff at the same time.
And often there's this really blunt slogan.
So after doing a promotion and then it's like, you know, the link to buying this is right in the common area.
Go click on that link.
Buy now. And, you know, you get the frenzy.
And you just, and apparently children, influencers are not allowed to participate in this kind of live streaming events.
And this is like a more recent way of, in China, how this is being regulated because there was this sort of like a wild explosion of growth for some time.
And, you know, children's wellbeing sometimes is taking the back seat.
Yeah. No rules were set in place for the protection because it's almost like child labor.
You're getting into that gray area there a little bit.
Yes, indeed. And what are the positive and negative influences of being a child influencer on children's wellbeing to get a parent's take?
Here's Karl Kwan, father to a young YouTube star weighing in on the experience from a parent's viewpoint.
My son Ethan started a YouTube channel when he was seven years old.
So he's had it now for about nine years.
And I'd say the biggest advantage to having the YouTube channel and making all these videos is his ability to learn on his own, to figure things out and to make content that he likes, but also that he's thinking, okay, well, how can I help other people to learn something?
And so I think that's been a huge advantage, just being able to do things independently, be confident and know that what he's doing is not only for himself, but he's helping other people as well.
The other advantage, I guess, is that he has something he can show for his college applications.
As far as disadvantages are concerned, I would say that it's really important to remember that your kids are kids.
And so we need to just encourage them because nowadays, with the number of videos that are on YouTube, they might feel like their videos aren't getting seen.
And so they might be discouraged.
So I think that is the only thing that as parents, we need to remember, just encourage our kids, don't tell them how to do it.
As long as they're doing it, they will learn and find their own way.
Maybe they'll stop doing it.
Maybe they'll keep doing it.
Who knows? But the most important thing is to be supportive.
That's a really positive way of looking at supporting your child into a child star on social media.
Yeah. And I think we have to remember that not every child who makes a YouTube channel or an Instagram or a TikTok or a platform here in China, they're not all going to get 130 million followers, right?
And most don't. And most don't.
And I think if we're thinking about the kids who maybe have a few thousand followers or something like that, then that's a really healthy attitude to have.
Let them do it. Let them be the creative director of what they're doing.
Be there to support them.
But if they decide they don't want to do it anymore, then they don't want to do it anymore.
I think the game changes once it becomes a business and once these agencies become involved.
I was watching a news report from the United States from 2021.
I think it was CBS News.
And they were there at a shoot for these two young girls who had their own channel.
And the mom was there and the grandmother was there.
And the mom was saying, yeah, I think it's great.
You know, this is really, really good.
There's a whole TV set there.
It looks like it is actually a professional television set.
There's a crew, there's cameras everywhere.
When I worked on live TV, it was the exact same setting.
Mom was saying, this is fantastic.
The grandmother, they interviewed her in the same report.
She started crying.
And she said, I just worry about the influences that this is going to have on these girls when they get older and their children now.
And I feel like they're losing their childhood.
That's a powerful statement.
And also up till today, Yushu, and I think a lot of us, as adults, we've seen the detrimental and super destructive side of social media to adults.
And I just wonder how kids will be able to fare that.
Also, if they're only kids now, they're going to become teenagers.
They're going to grow up one day and all that history is on the internet and there's no turning back.
So how do you feel about this?
Yeah, I think what you said, the clips sound quite positive to these kind of phenomenon that we are seeing.
The thing is that there are some of the differences we can see between two scenarios.
One thing is that these kids, they are being YouTubers or influenced themselves.
They are creating content by themselves.
That's why I think he said they are helping them to have a kind of creative mind and try to figure out what they can do and gain more confidence.
Another part is that what we can see a lot in Chinese social media is that parents are taking videos of their kids just to show some natural reactions that the kids are having to show their cuteness.
So that kind of thing, what I saw is that if there are no proper guidance and these kids are becoming so famous on social media or internet, these children may experience a kind of Truman Show effect, I would say.
They are being seen by the world and they don't actually realize because they're just doing what they're doing.
So, where their words and actions are closely watched and magnified by viewers and potentially it may impact their growth environment because maybe they are getting to primary school period, getting to middle school period and all of their classmates just all know them and that definitely will affect
some of the environment.
That can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing.
Dr. Sue Varma, this was a part of that news report I was talking about as well.
Dr. Sue Varma, she says that when children are in front of the camera like this from a very young age, their self -esteem gets linked to the success or lack thereof of their channel and they become dependent on fame.
And she said that children don't have the coping skills.
Their coping skills are underdeveloped.
There's an addictive element to it and when things don't go right, it can lead to anxiety, it can lead to depression later in life.
She said it can lead to substance abuse later in life.
She was referencing child stars from the film industry.
But there are potentially a lot of things that could go wrong when this gets big.
Carl, and thank you Carl for being a part of Roundtable today.
Carl mentioned the positive sides and there are plenty of positive sides.
His son has a sense of independence from working on that channel by himself, creativity and a sense of helping others.
But when things go wrong, then they can go terribly wrong, at least according to the experts.
Yeah, I think I tend to agree with you that initially when you're just setting this up, when it's still very small size, almost like close community kind of thing.
Yeah, I can see the innocent and bright side of things.
But as even before this thing blows up and take note that only maybe one in a million actually gets the really popular results.
And what's really worrying just as a general observer is that life is not a popularity contest.
And some of us had to learn much older, but for these kids, unless it's only parents that's managing the account, which I doubt, so the kids are going to see like, oh, did I get two followers, three followers, and then you're constantly looking at the numbers.
And just think about what kind of effect that's going to have on a young person's mind.
Yeah, because when it turns into a business, suddenly it's 24 seven, right?
It's 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
And then you start looking at child exploitation.
Then you start looking at policies that should be put in place.
For example, in the film industry, there are rules in place.
In California, in Hollywood, the children have to have at least one hour of recreation time on set.
They have to have at least a half hour meal break.
The total time on location varies by age and it should be very carefully noted.
There are rules put in place, but with this, this is a different ball game.
And when it's a family business and the parents are involved and the children are in front of the camera, yeah, it seems like there should be regulations put in place to protect the kids from burnout or the other potential problems I discussed.
That's what I was thinking.
You know, I said it is quite different because these videos can be so popular and they're popular for a reason.
So some child influencers use their influence to maybe also can spread positive energy and they're showcasing their parenting skills.
And that could be a positive impact.
But the thing is that if they are just all of their content, just scripted and for the aim of business or commercialized, then the idea can be distorted.
So maybe we will see maybe more regulation on this, maybe more supervision to some extent.
And also, is it too much to ask the viewers to take up some responsibility here?
Don't be too harsh on kids.
But also don't be too harsh on the child influencers.
These are young entrepreneurs and they're setting themselves up for a very nice future if they do it correctly.
Or maybe don't watch it.
Or watch it. You know, you have the right to make that decision.
But I still think that the cautionary tales of so many child stars, including Michael Jackson as such, I mean, they offer a good lesson on this.
