You're listening to Roundtable, I'm Neil Hong -lin joined by Steve and Yu Shen.
Coming up! Ever dreamed of being the smartest kid in school?
The one who always knows the answer and outshines everybody else without breaking a sweat?
Well, it turns out there's an easy way to make that dream come true.
Just compete against kids way below your grade on learning apps.
But who's doing this and what happened to the idea of picking on someone your own size?
Let's find out! Think educational apps are just for kids?
Think again. Recently a bizarre new trend.
Adults taking over elementary learning apps and competing with children leaving young learners a little bit frustrated and confused is happening.
What's driving these adults to battle it out with elementary kids?
And what does it mean for education in the digital age?
Let's see what is happening and what exactly which app are we talking about?
Yes, I was also trying to ask, who's doing this?
Who's doing this? Who would do that?
You know, in some learning apps such as Du Linggu, which is the app that you can learn languages, and also in China, there is an app called Xiao Yuan, called Suan, which is a math learning app aimed at elementary school students, has seen a surge in users from higher education levels, which means adults.
But they are not pursuing further study through these apps.
These older students engage in competitive challenges because these apps have a system that you can gain ranking.
So random match with opponents?
Du Linggu is the language app, then there is the math app.
So someone goes into the math app, and elementary school goes into the math app, and goes into a room within that app.
And within that room, there's a series of questions to answer, and it's a competition, so it's you versus a random stranger, or the child versus a random stranger.
The goal, I guess, is to be another child with the similar math level.
And then they answer a series of questions, and there's a winner.
So if you're a winner, then you get what do you get?
You get like an improved ranking within the app?
Yeah, mostly just you can get a kind of a ranking, and you will get like top 10 or top three.
And then people, these kind of people, who we cannot understand, will feel a fulfillment of winning a top three ranking in this ranking that mostly used to be elementary school students.
So the random stranger, this is what's happening, the random stranger that is supposed to be another elementary school student, is maybe some middle -aged man just having fun, or is it high school students or university students?
University students, or just graduated.
This actually really disturbs the system because I've seen this fun comment from a young elementary school kid.
He said that my mom said, if I can win the competition for three times, I get to go out and play with my friends.
But I could not do that.
It was so sad. What is the goal of the, I mean, for the kids, for the elementary school students, they're looking to improve their language skills or their math skills?
Yes. And I guess the tool is to do it through an app, through a fun and fair competition.
But what's the benefit for the adults?
You know, this sounds like the behavior that happens in video games is also known as smurfing.
So it refers to when these high level players deliberately lower their rank or use alternative accounts or just create a new account to compete against lower level players in competitive games.
I've been smurfed. Yeah.
You've been smurfed?
I've been. I know how these young elementary school students are feeling now.
I've been smurfed with online gaming before.
That's why these kind of behavior or these kind of players are mostly looked down upon, looked down upon by most of our players because this is just an unreasonable behavior that you're just taking away all of these experience of these players.
Yeah. But that's for gaming, which doesn't really have any, you know, just having fun.
These are not pro gamers online.
For me, it was chess.
So my feelings were hurt for a short time and then I get over it.
But these are students who are trying to improve themselves through math and language ability.
Is this app, I wonder, it's not connected to their school grades at all?
No, no, no. Okay. That's a good thing, right?
It's a good thing that they're not connected because this could be much more serious than it is.
I'm really confused.
I mean, what motivates these adults to actually compete with children on these apps?
I mean, is it just they're bored or is it a need for validation?
Long subway ride. Or do they need to win that much and also they cannot win in real life?
Some of people saying that they're just bored with their work or this is kind of a way that they are relieving their stress and pressure.
But what has been the reaction from parents, educators, young students, or even the one who created the app, the Learning app from the very first place?
So first of all, of course, the students or the target users of this app and their parents are feeling frustrated by these kind of behavior because they were actually the one that they tried to learn and experience and learn from these apps.
But all of their experience got collapsed because I think the fun is about when you are learning on this app and you gain a bit of credits and you can get a little sense of achievement and fulfillment from these apps.
But at this moment, you finish some of these tasks, but you are not gaining the reward that you're supposed to get.
And then that is how your experience got spoiled.
Yes. This isn't great for the apps either because this can damage their wouldn't damage their reputation in terms of the app did something wrong, but this can put a lot of people off of using the app in the first place, right?
Both existing users may stop using and potential users might not even join at all because this is the type of story that spreads like wildfire through social media.
And that's why in response, this platform implemented several measures to counteract this kind of behavior.
They enhance security protocols to detect automated scripts, which is used by a lot of these university students or just adult.
Is that what they call a Python script?
That's even worse. They are using Python to create a scripted plug in code to make this win easier.
Can you explain that in layman's terms?
Just very simply, how do they use it?
What is a Python script and how do they use that?
You can understand it as a kind of a cheating method.
Then you're using this plug in tool and you're winning these games easier because the tool is helping you to answer the questions.
This platform introduced features that trigger notifications for users who are identified as not being elementary school students.
Of course, they can realize this kind of thing and they're doing actions and prohibiting these kind of behaviors.
I'm telling people this is wrong.
Maybe like an ID sign in.
I'm guessing there can't be any age verification.
You know what's funny about the situation is that for starters, not every university student is evil when they enter the game.
Some of them are just seeing this as a new trend and go dip the water just a little bit.
And really fast. This turns into you mess with my younger brother.
Now I am going against you situation.
Revenge math. The worst type of math.
Actually, in this competition, quote unquote competition in this learning app, gradually we see more and more university students competing against each other, adults competing against each other.
They already know it's on the other side of the screen.
It's another adult competing with them.
Some of them already are already aware of the situation and are doing that.
But for those who are not that vicious when they sense that, right, their opponent is a real elementary school student, they would, you know, cut them some chase and make sure that their experience is not ruined entirely.
But definitely we do need to well, for the sake of the learners on these apps, we do need to still do something to make the situation a little bit better.
So I was wondering for both of you, do you think learning apps can do something more or what are we, what have we learned through this, this bizarre new trend or little new story?
I mean, I'm guessing this is surprising for the apps.
They probably didn't see this as even a possibility of happening.
So like I said, age verification.
I don't know if you could do some sort of level test before you enter into the room to answer the questions.
That wouldn't help, I suppose, but just maybe verifying who's who's who's doing it.
Yeah, who's in there.
This is not a complicated case, I would say.
If you're calling them the actions is a way to relieve their stress.
I don't even think he has to me.
This behavior is nothing more than just senseless mischief with some so many ways available to alleviate your stress.
Why choose methods that easily affect others?
When you are relieving your stress, there's so many ways.
Smash something. We got so many...
You're sure it's advising people to smash something.
There are like game rooms for you to pay to smash a lot of things, actually.
But anyway, this is one of the options that you can choose to relieve your stress but not to affect others.
I think that is the way to resolve this kind of problem.
And on this platform, of course, they need to have the awareness of identifying the age.
Maybe back then we put age limit on kids who are playing these kind of video games.
Maybe in this case we should put age limit on adults to use these kinds of things.
This is kind of a reversal, isn't it?
Because in gaming, it's kind of known that young kids who are very, very, very good at video games will play against a much older opponent who doesn't have the same skill.
And then trash talk the adult.
So this is kind of a reversal of roles here, isn't it?
Are you meaning that they deserve this?
I'm just saying, perhaps.
Oh, they're learning math.
Just a touch of irony.
Perhaps. No, I'm kidding, of course.
I think the story once again demonstrates how immature human can be and how complicated human psychology can be.
I think some of these university students in other aspects of their life, they're good students.
I like to believe they're good people.
They are not bully in real life.
I don't think it makes them a horrible human being.
It's not something.
Think about it. You see this story circulating on social media and you're on the subway and you've got an hour to kill and you go, oh, what's this all about?
So you just open up your dual ego app or you go in and you say, oh, well, I know the answer to that.
Why they're not terrible people at all.
Actually, I don't think so.
It's not all day. Every day.
You know, maybe I am the one that got so many times of smurfed and I just hate these kind of people.
And I need them to know that you are looked down upon.
And sometimes outright hated.
So this is when when you realize that you are doing these kind of things to people who are innocent.
Stop doing this. Then maybe you are not that bad.
But if you realize, OK, I am just smashing these kids using experience and I'm keeping doing this and I'm gaining a sense of fulfillment of winning, then I don't think you're a good one.
Well, for those who are actually doing this and find the pleasure in it to start with, I don't think you're that bad.
But I do have a tip for you.
You know, there are some games that provide these fake servers that you can enter the game and you are the only real human player in this server.
All the other ones are basically fake NPCs, non -people characters.
And but they are they basically pretend that they are real humans.
And whenever you draw a lottery, you can be the one who's winning.
Whenever you try to compete with another player, you are the one who's winning.
So the entire design of the game is to give you the fake yet for you, maybe real sense of satisfaction.
Go play in those games and do not stop messing with little elementary learners.
And conversely, here's a tip.
If you are an adult who is constantly getting smurfed by little kids online.
We're coming back to that, huh?
You can pretend. I saw this one video.
I laughed so hard. This guy, this, he's an online gamer, but he's terrible at it.
So he plays online and when he gets, when he loses, the other person will typically trash talk him, right?
Oh, you're terrible at this game.
You should quit and never play this game.
You're the worst. And he's an adult male, but he he just types.
I'm sorry. I'm just a little boy.
I'm in the third grade.
And then the other person says, oh, no, no, you're really, really good at this.
Don't give up. That's his strategy to protect his ego.
So many different kind of methods.
That's a good one, I think.
Yes, I mean, competition can be fun.
But when it disturbs learning, we need to take a step back and ask what's really important.
And I think our conversation today reminds us that education is a journey, not a race.
Whether it's children mastering math or adults exploring new languages, learning is most rewarding when it's meaningful.
And that's a lesson worth teaching no matter who's on the leaderboard.
Coming up next motivational Monday.
Motivational Mondays.
It's Roundtable with myself, Nioh Honglin, Steve Hatherly and Yuxuan.
Motivational Monday.
We do need some motivation these days.
It's getting into the cold part or period part of the year and people are getting a little bit sluggish.
So Yuxuan, what do you have for us to motivate our week?
People need to get motivated, especially in these cold days.
So as we see the weather has turned cooler and it seems that we are approaching or the winter is slowly approaching than the cold of winter is often associated with some form of challenges and difficulties.
And China has also historically expressed these similar sentiments.
So this is my quote, which is a poem.
It says like this means a sharp sword is forged through honing and the fragrance of plum blossoms comes from the winter cold.
This quote teaches us that just as the sharpness of a sword requires sharpening a lot and the sweet scent of plum blossoms emerges from the harshness of winter and beautiful things often need to go through challenges and hardships.
So it emphasizes that difficulties and struggles are often the necessary processes for achieving greatness or creating something valuable.
Tell that to the elementary school students on the tool, Lingo.
Read that poem. So many hardships.
I was about to say Lotus flowers are very nice and cherry blossoms are nice.
They didn't win through wintertime.
Forget the Lotus flowers.
Of course, all of these trees need to go through wintertime to survive and then embrace the spring and then get.
Yes. So that is how I want to tell our listeners that if you are finding the process of pursuing something particularly difficult or hard, you should know that it's completely normal and common and natural because things that come too easily may not hold as much value.
There's a lot of quotes saying, you know, we can't if we don't have winter, then we can't appreciate spring or summer because if you live in a place where it's always summertime, then you don't appreciate it as much.
I feel like they do appreciate it actually.
But I mean, another well, one thing for me is that what you showed was sharing that quote.
I realize it's something that I have been listening to or I have at least read about when I was in elementary school, when I was little.
But gradually, when you enter different stages in your life, you have different understandings and interpretations of different of these quotes that you have been always listening to and somehow take a step back and re -understand and trying to interpret it again for your life stage would actually give
you even a moment of epiphany, making you understand your current situation better and react to it better.
So thank you, Yuxuan, for that quote.
Nice one. Mine are also winter related.
Do you guys like winter by the way?
No. No, not at all.
What happened to your blossoms and sword poem?
People don't like difficulties though, but you need to suffer that.
You know how many times I've heard, you know, people ask me where are you from, Steve?
And I say, Canada, you know, this always this conversation always happens during this time when it starts to get cold.
Where are you from, Canada?
Oh, it's cold in Canada, right?
So you like winter.
No. No, we don't actually.
We're used to it. But that doesn't mean that we enjoy it when compared to summer temperatures.
All right. I have two.
One, I'm going to turn into a little quiz game or maybe.
And one is not a quiz game instead of two, maybe I'll just choose one.
So do you want the quiz one or do you want the other one?
I must do the quiz one.
See, people like to win.
It's only natural that people like to play games and wins.
Don't use a Python script.
No Python scripts to answer this.
OK, this is from author Jared Kintz, and I'll ask you to fill in the blank at the end.
What do you think is the end of this quote?
He says, when I was young, I loved summer and hated winter.
When I got older, I loved winter and hated summer.
Now that I'm even older and wiser, I blank.
What do you think? Hate them both.
No, it's not motivational quotes.
I love them both. Oh, that's a wise choice.
Then I will say I don't care anymore.
The answer is, when I was young, I loved summer and hated winter.
When I got older, I loved winter and hated summer.
Now that I'm even older and wiser, I hate them both.
Hey, you are correct.
I work. All right. Why is this motivational?
Well, don't feel like you have to say, yeah, winter's great because of the beautiful snowflakes.
And I can have a chance to reflect on a year end.
And what else? No, it's terrible.
It's freezing cold.
You don't have to lie about it.
And my motivational point here is express your true, honest opinion about the season.
Just like author Jared Kintz did.
That is actually a good point.
And also during wintertime, I think though we cannot, not everyone has the pair of eyes.
You can find the beauty in winter days.
You can definitely create something that you can enjoy.
What I was saying, I don't like winter times.
I actually do like cradling in the bed with the cover with a very furry kind of cover that I can be inside and enjoying a little bit of hot water or even hot beverage.
I watch milk, coffee and watch one of my favorite, you know, winter day designated TV shows and series and makes everything much, much better.
I agree with that to the extent that when it's freezing cold outside...
And it was a hot pot by the way.
When it's freezing cold and the air is a little hot pot in bed?
No, not in bed. In winter days.
Oh, when it's freezing cold and maybe the sky is a little bit dreary, it's just a good excuse to not go out, right?
So yeah, I get what you're saying about curling up with a nice hot pot under the covers.
And also I think that is the reason why most of the kids, they would say I love four seasons because they can always think of the good part of four seasons.
OK, for the winter, they are not thinking about the coldness, they're thinking about the snowflakes, building a snowman, having hot pot or for the summer, they can thinking of is the popsicles and ice cream.
So always something to look forward to.
Yes, they are always motivated.
And I think that is the part that we should learn from them.
Yeah, when we're grown up, we do not have to accept the things or like the things that everybody else like.
But we can definitely create something that we like.
We have the power in our hands to make our lives beautiful.
And I feel like today is a really winter themed motivational Monday day.
So, Steve, how about you share your other quote?
Oh, sure. This one was kind of a real motivational point from Gary Zukav.
He says, we cannot stop the winter or the summer from coming.
We cannot stop the spring or the fall or make them either disappear.
They are gifts from the universe and we cannot refuse.
What we can choose is how we will contribute to life when each arrives, meaning winter is going to come whether we like it or not.
Spring to summer to fall to.
So rather than complain about it during the four month period, why not just embrace it and see what you can do with your own life that might be a little bit different than what you would do with your life in the spring or the summer or the fall like winter sports or winter activities, things like that.
Yes, that's actually also quite true and beautiful.
And for those of you who feel like you're a bit down, a bit sluggish in winter days, it might really just be the weather because the weather condition, the temperature, the length of sun shining time during the day.
The thing I really hate the most about the winter time is that the sun disappears so early.
Is it maybe 4 .35 PM, 5 .30, somewhere around there, right?
Yeah, some people would find that, oh, maybe it's me.
No, it's the weather.
It actually affects your perception of the world.
It affects your emotion.
Seasonal depression.
Yes, it's real. So having the awareness actually will make you feel better.
And you understand it's not you.
It's the world. Then create something that will make you feel better.
Create a little, well, have a little date appointment with yourself after work, having something to look forward to after work, then you would feel much better in the cold winter days.
Just do not have hot pot in bed.
That's not suggested, but you can still definitely find something to pamper yourself with a little bit.
And that would help you enjoy the beautiful winter time.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
We would love to hear your thoughts on today's topics.
Leave us a comment or send us email to RoundtablePodcast at qq .com.
Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.
I'm Yeohong Lin with Steve and Yuxun.
Thanks for listening.
Bye. Bye, everyone.
