Today I'm sitting down with Mitch Matthews, executive coach, keynote speaker and host of the Dream Think Do podcast, where he's gone deep with everyone from bestselling authors to Olympians.
Mitch has spent nearly two decades helping successful professionals build coaching and speaking businesses, not by blowing up their lives, by convincing them to take big, unnecessary risks, but by adding to their lives 15 minutes at a time.
In this conversation we get into why the burn the boats.
Advice might be the most dangerous thing you've ever been told if you really want to start your entrepreneurial journey.
We talk about what neuroscience actually says, about why high performers stall and why the fix is often simpler than you think.
And Mitch lays out the sequence he's used to help people go from hidden expertise to real income without ever sending a resignation letter.
If you've ever felt the itch to do more, more impact, more income and more legacy, This episode's for you.
Let's get into it.
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Let's start off with your journey, Mitch.
I think that'll be great because you're a great case study in this.
And then we can talk about some of the other folks and see how negotiation was sprinkled throughout this journey too.
I love it.
So yeah.
You know, my story, I started in a small town in Iowa.
I was kind of an extreme kid, which meant that I worried a lot.
But I was also wildly creative and my attention got drawn to bicycles at a very young age and we had one bicycle shop in town.
It was Marty Schwinn Cyclery, and it was two blocks off of our kind of hallmark Christmas movie square where we had a courthouse and all these little shops around it.
And Marty Schwinn Cyclery was two blocks Off of that.
It was next to the Goodwill and around the corner from the only strip club in town.
So it was a really exciting place to be for a 12-year-old.
And I basically, I did everything.
I stalked the owner, Marty.
All summer long, I did everything I could to not be arrested for loitering.
I dusted bikes.
I swept the alley behind.
I painted trash cans.
I mowed his lawn without his permission, all of that.
And at the end of that summer, he wound up giving me my dream job.
I was in love with bicycles when I started the job, and that love transferred from bicycles to entrepreneurship.
And I just the entrepreneurial bug bit me at a very young age and I just fell in love with you know, understanding that side of it.
And so basically I had 10 years of a masterclass in entrepreneurship.
And then in college, I started to understand communication.
I knew I was really good at sales and thought maybe someday I could teach people how to sell, how to do this kind of thing.
But I thought I need to have some experience.
So I got into business to business sales for a couple of years.
And then I got into pharmaceutical sales and I got in that industry at a really great time where the company I got in it was a highly technical sale.
It was very relational.
You had to really be good.
You had to work hard and you got you got paid for that.
And I at that time was a.
Rep in Montana.
I had the northern half of the Louisiana purchase.
So I had two thirds of Montana, half of Wyoming and a chunk of Idaho.
And it was fantastic.
And I loved it.
And I had a lot of success there. as a salesperson.
And then I got promoted to Chicago to our home office.
And I got to help run a $2 billion pharmaceutical company's training department.
And that was exciting and amazing.
And then I got promoted into a bad fit job and I couldn't leave it because our life was built on me having this very good but bad fit job.
And so I had to do it on the side.
So I, and I'm, I'm wildly grateful for it.
It was painful at the time but I'm wildly grateful for it, because I don't know about you but I always believe teach.
Teach from your journey, not the destination.
And that woke me up to that entrepreneurial dream that had been planted in that 13 year old.
And and we were in a position where I couldn't just walk away.
I couldn't just quit that bad fit job.
But I knew I had to do something.
And so I started to to coach and speak on the side.
I started to build our own training company on the side.
And I thought it was going to take years to be able to do what we wanted to be able to do and i'm wildly grateful to say a lot of prayer, a lot of hard work, some duct tape and we were able to to launch and be able to do that full time in about five months and we haven't looked back.
That was 2002 and we haven't looked back amazing.
I love so much of this story and i hope the listeners did not miss the fact that you were engaging in free child labor, a hundred percent.
The first six months, i think i was paid in cash because we could By whatever means necessary, right?
I tell you what, he could have paid me in Pepsi and old bike tires, for crying out loud.
It was incredible.
Such a great experience.
Yeah, and we can see that the passion was always there.
You could see it from a young age.
Yeah.
There are so many elements that are cool about your story, but I think one of the things that we will keep coming back to Mitch, is the reality that this is doable.
Yeah, you've created a process and a system to help people do this, and i want to hone in on one of the the most paradigm shifting ways in which you do this, because so many people are like listen, forget your job, leave it, burn the boats, burn down your life right.
Take this big huge, blind leap of faith right.
I don't know about you, but I'm a recovering worrier.
So like big blind leaps of faith.
I know some people think, oh, I've got to make a big blind leap of faith to do this.
And it's like, nah, I'm a big fan of steps of faith over time.
It doesn't have to be a big blind leap of faith.
So to be able to say hey, how do we do this in a way that doesn't burn down your current life, doesn't ruin everything you've already done, but actually builds on what you know and being able to allow you to express and have impact.
And do new and different ways.
And I really think people should be paid well for that, because people tend to honor what they, what they pay for and what they invest in.
Yeah, this is great, because one of the things that we want to do down the road is build thought leaders too, and help people to grow in that.
And I think to your point they don't recognize the value that they have and that there's an option here.
And for me it's one of those things where I don't think people understand how vulnerable the position they are currently in is because, like you said, it feels like a leap of faith.
I'm taking a massive risk, but what you're showing is that you don't need to necessarily leave.
Leave your job and start everything.
You just take these baby steps and you're insulating your career, because we've seen people who are deep in their career.
They're established professionals.
And then all of a sudden, through no fault of their own, the business shifts direction.
Everybody gets laid off.
And now what do what do I do?
Yep.
And those people like we've had those people where you know they had spent three months building this thing.
Nobody knew about it, but they were they were starting to build their authority.
They were building the foundation for a business.
They got downsized and they were able to step out with a smile because they're like, I'm ready.
But most of our folks keep doing what they're doing.
They just add this.
And then, if it gets to that place where they're enjoying it so much and it's replacing their income, they can step out into it full time if they want to.
But I always say that doesn't have to be a goal.
Pay for your kid's college this way.
Pay for amazing vacations a couple times a year this way.
Or, you know, make an entirely new career and replace the old one.
And I think we all, especially in the entrepreneurial world, we have this survivorship bias.
Where the people who survive, they come and they're like, this is how I survived.
I put it all on the line and it worked.
But the people where it didn't work, they don't have a massive audience.
That's exactly right.
And they're loaded.
And there's a lot of those folks.
And I couldn't agree more.
I really believe the best way to build your best side business is to start when you're not dependent on it for income.
And I always find that the people who can do that do that well and learn a sequence that helps them build quickly when they don't have that pressure of immediate need.
They can make the right decisions.
They can be more strategic.
They can do it in a way that's true to them, that's authentic.
And so, yeah, we're really passionate about that.
We've been helping people build coaching and speaking businesses since 2006.
But it's truly a passion.
Now we have something that we call the authority bridge process that helps people true professionals leaders, people who have had success to add coaching and speaking to what they do without burning down their current life.
Amazing.
And let's go deeper into one of the things that you said Mitch, because I don't want the audience to miss this part.
Because, at the end of the day, when we think about negotiation in general, this is at the end of the process of negotiation, whether it's an internal negotiation with yourself or an external negotiation with somebody else.
It's a decision making process.
At the end of the day, we want to make a decision so we can move forward.
See what the future looks like.
But we all know that when it comes to decision making, we like to pretend like it's purely logical.
It can be, but usually it's emotional first.
And if our emotions are in the wrong place, it'll skew our decision making in ways that we might not even perceive.
So there is this lore in entrepreneurship that says you need that desperation, that sink or swim reality which fills you with emotionality, and then you're making decisions based on desperation.
But you approach it from the different perspective.
So help us to understand why that is so important when it comes to building a sustainable business that is built upon a foundation of authenticity.
Yeah, I love this.
So what we did a couple of years ago is we inventoried our best successes.
So, like I said, you know, I started coaching full time in 2002.
Things really started to work, so much so that, in 2006, people just started approaching us saying okay, what are you doing like?
Why is this working it?
It seems to really be clicking for you, and so i did.
I started to teach and then we took all that training online in 2011 and we've been able to help Thousands of coaches and speakers.
But with that, a few years ago, we really inventoried our best cases, our best scenarios, the most successful people, not just from a monetary standpoint but from a satisfaction standpoint, where people were like happy with their lives and things were better with their families, and all of those things.
Right.
And what we did is we started to see a consistency.
And it was just that it was our best case scenarios where people successful people executives entrepreneurs, leaders at all levels that, instead of blowing up their life and burning everything down, they just started to do this on the side and started to build that ability, their own business that helped them to generate more income but also have more impact, truly have a legacy that they wanted that was far outside their current organization.
But a big part of that is, and you're exactly right.
I think a lot of people.
They think, oh my gosh, I would love to do something like that, but I can't quit my day job, or maybe I don't want to quit my day job.
But they still feel that itch.
And it's funny.
I recently I've got a podcast called Dream Think Do.
And I recently interviewed a neuroscientist who really hit this. on its head.
And it really resonated with me and a lot of people that are in our Authority Bridge process.
But her name was Anne-Laure LeCunf.
And I don't know about you, but sometimes when I have guests on where I'm like gosh, I don't even know how I say that name.
When I nail it, I say it as often as I can because I'm really proud of it.
But Ann-Laura is fantastic.
She was this neuroscientist who used to work for Google, and she admits she thought she was burnt out and so she quit.
But as she started to do more research on what she was experiencing, she realized what.
What she had been dealing with was not burnout.
It's what now neuroscientists call bored out.
And she said this is a symptom or it is actually an experience that a lot of high-level leaders have.
And what's interesting is bored out, the symptoms of bored out are very similar to burnout.
You feel fatigued, you're easily frustrated, It's hard to focus all of those things.
But with burnout, it tends to be that you're overworked with bored out.
What it tends to be is that you've learned systems that work.
And part of the reason why you're successful is you do those things over and over again and you start to become bored.
Now you don't necessarily know that at a conscious level, but at a subconscious level you start to feel that.
And what she talked about is that oftentimes people what people will try to do is they'll try to do these big, dramatic shifts in their life.
And what that does is it winds up causing chaos.
And she admitted it.
She was like, that's me.
I quit a great job, a highly paid job at Google because I didn't have this figured out.
And she's like, honestly, I kind of regret it.
But she said, now what I want to do is help more people to address being bored out.
And I said, well, what's the solution?
And she said the good news is, the solution is one thing, and that is the introduction of just small novelty.
And that is the introduction of learning something new, trying something new for 15 minutes a day.
And what we're talking, I'm like, oh my gosh, That's what we do with Authority Bridge.
It's this introduction of new strategy, introduction of business building that you can do in 15 to 30 minutes a day.
That is really doable.
But it is this infusion of a little bit of novelty, something new, that you're able to learn.
Try grow, stretch.
Right.
And you still get to do what you do.
She said that once you understand this, you can actually get even better at the thing that you do over and over again.
It can actually become satisfying again.
The board out starts to drop because the novelty starts to displace that.
She said it makes all the difference.
I love that concept because for our authority bridge people, they're usually busy.
They usually have a full schedule.
They usually have a day job where they're very good at it.
They usually, often will have a family or a busy personal life, so they're not looking for just anything to do.
But this represents an introduction of novelty that can also lead to impact and income.
So it's this perfect mix where you don't have to wait for a crisis.
Instead, you can introduce this in a really helpful way, and it can tend to energize you as well as boost your income and your impact.
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You know what's ironic?
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Truly listening, reading the room, catching what is not being said.
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Mitch, there's so much that I love about this response.
So, again, let me take a moment and speak directly to the listener about you, Mitch.
OK, so I'm talking about you in front of your face.
I love it.
That's fine.
So I'll listen in.
I want you all to pay attention to how Mitch answered this question.
Because it was a masterclass in answering.
You included a story.
And, at the same time, you authentically, fluidly and without being salesy, mentioned the authority bridge a number of times in a way that was germane to what we were talking about, and so i just wanted to highlight that because it was so brilliantly done.
And so the other.
So, whoever's listening, if there's something, if you are an entrepreneur, you're doing a side hustle when you are talking to people.
I want you to sound like mitch, because i want you to go back minutes, listen to how he did that because brother, that was Oh, I received that fully.
And I'm going to play this recording over and over for myself.
Anytime I have a down day, I'm just coming back to that section right there.
That was so good.
And then I think for a lot.
I mean, I feel like I should be in that little that chase lounge behind you now.
Hey.
Come on over.
It feels like this became a therapy session.
You're so right when it comes to burnout versus bored out.
This was happening to me in the last fall.
I was doing I was doing a lot.
I had a lot of keynotes.
I was just it was very busy.
So it was objectively a busy time in my life.
But it was a lot of the same kinds of busy and parts of the the.
The job that I enjoy the most it's podcasting.
It is also keynote speaking and coaching.
So those are the things I like the most.
And I was speaking a lot, but I was doing it at such a pace that it wasn't enjoyable and I wasn't getting enough sleep.
But then also I wasn't getting as many podcast reps in.
So these nice, deep conversations where I can be fully present, it wasn't happening.
So I was thinking that I was burnt out.
But then I recognized, oh my goodness, I was talking to one of my friends who was on the podcast and they said what do you do for fun?
And I said, what is fun?
Yeah.
Tell me about this fun concept.
What does it mean?
I want to hear more.
Right.
It seems so foreign.
I was like, man, I got boring.
And so I started to play chess again and I started to chase a little bit of novelty in a healthy way.
So what are some little daily adventures I could do?
When I'm doing these keynote speeches, it's like playing chess go to the airport, go to the hotel, go to the conference center Uber, home.
You're in all of these different cities, but they're all essentially the same.
But I'm like, no, I'm going to treat everything like a vacation.
And that was really helpful.
So this burned out versus bored out, this is going to be paradigm shifting for so many folks.
I love it.
And it is it's what's beautiful about it is I think a lot of people assume to make change.
It means burning everything down and moving to Fiji.
Or it means, you know, quitting your job and and doing something crazy, all of that.
And it doesn't have to like, especially when we dig into the brain science.
It's literally 12 to 15 minutes of intentional novelty.
And it doesn't even have to be seven days a week.
Even three to four days a week of intentional novelty, which means you choose it and you stay focused on it.
That can actually inject that, that sense of purpose.
It can help with endorphins and dopamine, all of those things.
So it's it is.
It's really practical and and one of the things we talk about with the authority bridge is when we get people started.
So I don't know about you, but you know your listeners are probably a lot healthier than I am.
Right.
I'm a recovering worrier and I'm a recovering perfectionist.
So you know, one of the things if you're a recovering perfectionist is you always think more is better.
Right.
Like, oh, you know, sure, I could do it in 30 minutes a day.
But what if I waited until I had the perfect weekend where I had total focus?
Right.
And then the perfect weekend never comes and all of that.
But one of the things we talk about is what if I could get you 60 hours to work on this business?
What if I could just give you 60 hours and people are like i'll take it right, like because the people that come to us they're busy, they have full schedules, they're they're, they're doing a lot.
And what's interesting is if you do the math i'm not a math elite, so i really had to write this down and memorize it and double check it, triple check it but if you do something, 15 minutes a day, focused 15 minutes a day, five days a week, doesn't need to be seven days a week, just five days a week, 15 minutes a day.
That's 62 hours over the course of a year.
So it's one of those things where it doesn't feel like much day to day.
But when you put that together or even expand it out to be able to say well, you want to double that.
It's just 30 minutes a day, five days a week.
If you have that 120 hours of focus time over a year, You can have your business up and running without blowing up your life.
Right.
And a big part of that, though, is having the sequence.
And you're exactly right.
One of the things you said earlier that is so true is you know, any decision that we make is a mix of logic and emotion, right?
And what I always say is logic creates the pathway.
Emotion creates the step.
Yeah.
Right.
So we always with with the authority bridge.
What we do is we say hey, we'll provide you the pathway.
Like we have something we call the six figure sequence that allows people to go OK, I can go from here to here, to here to here.
Right.
So that's the pathway.
That's logic.
Now we're also going to help you with the emotion side, but that's the part you have to bring.
You have to take the step.
But once you take that step, then you can stick with the logic and continue through the sequence.
Right, but logic creates the pathway, emotion creates the step.
Amazing, and Mitch, we got to talk about the authority bridge now.
So let's talk about how you can get somebody from a working professional to somebody who has a thriving side hustle in coaching or speaking.
Our biggest initiative right now it's really important to us and it's also been really resonating with folks is we have been training up coaches and speakers for a number of years.
But we've realized that our specialty, like where we do our best work, is something we call the authority bridge, and it's helping successful professionals uh, to add coaching, speaking or consulting to what they do, not to blow up their life, not to walk away from everything, but to actually increase their impact, kind of scratch that itch but also really generate some nice revenue as well.
And we've just really been able to have some incredible stories of people doing that, you know, staying in their position, but adding speaking, adding coaching to the side.
And for some folks it's just you six figures of side income, which is great.
Not a side hustle, but a side mission.
And then for some it's really expanded their authority even within their organization, where people are seeing them in a different light, that kind of stuff.
So The authority bridge process is something I love talking about.
It's something that's really interesting, kind of eye-opening for people to think about.
I think sometimes they think, oh, that side hustle thing sounds exhausting.
It's like, well, it's not that.
It's actually having strategy to be able to do that.
And to have that, to be able to scratch that itch, that I think a lot of leaders that are established, they're really good at what they do but maybe they're starting to get a little bored.
Nobody knows it.
They're still delivering, but they're just feeling that, that urge, that nudge to do something new without blowing up their life, without walking away, without taking your great big, blind leap of faith.
And we always talk about you're swimming in a in water of brilliance.
You just don't realize it like a fish is totally unaware of the water they're swimming in.
These people, they're swimming in brilliance, but because it's what they see every day, it's what they talk about every day, it's easy to assume that everybody knows this stuff and they don't.
It's interesting.
We we, our focus is on coaching and speaking.
But our coaching, we have a coach certification that's called the scientific method and our coach certification is called the coach mindset.
And so you can take that and a branch of that.
You can also then move into what we call coaching consultation.
So you're a consultant, but you take a coaching approach.
So a lot of folks will wind up kind of doing a little bit of both there.
Amazing.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
How does it work?
Yeah, I love it.
So one of the things where we start is, I think you know, and it's something you and I were talking about before
One of the first things we do is like, hey, let's inventory your brilliance.
There are things that you do, just even how you start your day, or how do you run a meeting, or how do you look at something perspective.
You know, you you faced a challenge.
You had to negotiate a difficult conversation.
How did you do that?
Right.
Let's inventory your brilliance.
But then what we do is we actually take them through the process, as we're helping them build the foundation of their business.
We also help them to start experiment in teaching some of this brilliance without needing to make some big announcement.
Hey, guys, I'm a coach.
Hey, guys, I'm a speaker.
We take them through a process that allows them to start what we call value based promotion.
So you don't have to make some grand opening gesture.
What you can do is start to teach on a regular basis um, and we do believe in doing it consistently, not as a hey guys, i'm a coach, i'm a speaker, as you teach from the journey.
Teach from the journey, not the destination.
So, instead of starting by making some big announcement, you start just by saying hey guys.
You may or may not know this, But I'm passionate about this subject, whether it's leadership negotiation, difficult conversations, building trust, whatever it might be.
Every week, i'm just going to teach a little bit of what i'm learning, not as an expert, not like i'm saying i've got it all figured out but boy, i'm a student of this, and so i'm going to teach what i'm learning, and sometimes it's going to because it'll be because i had a success, and sometimes it'll also because i had a huge you know, a blow up mistake.
And I want to teach from that as well.
So I'm teaching from the journey.
If you want to join me in that, please do.
And you just start to do that.
You start to teach.
Now there's, there's some strategies to that that makes that even more effective.
But what's beautiful is especially for our authority bridge people is they start to realize like, Oh man, All right.
Whether I call it brilliance or not, that is something that's helpful.
And oftentimes they'll downgrade it just because it's normal for them.
But when they start to teach on it and people start to react like oh my gosh, I needed that today.
Or oh my gosh, I've never thought of it that way.
Or I've.
I've even had a conversation like we had somebody recently that they posted one of their ideas And somebody commented and said hey, you've told me that before and I totally forgot it, but I needed it today.
Thank you so much for posting it.
You know, and it's those kinds of things.
And what's beautiful about that approach is you get to walk this out.
You get to start teaching from your perspective.
You get to experiment with your brilliance.
Without needing to name it, without needing to make some big announcement of your coaching or speaking, whatever.
But it allows you to start working that content muscle in a way that's really satisfying.
And what it does is it starts to build your authority without necessarily having to have a label on it yet.
And what's beautiful about that is that really allows people to feel that impact, that ripple effect of what they're doing, before they ever need to make any kind of announcement.
And there's really been some really positive things.
I mean, we've had people start that process.
It's a really specific thing that we recommend people do.
But within that we've had people and we say there's a money line, there's.
There's a money line that usually you have to do some things to set yourself up to receive clients and things like that, but the money line happens before it needs to be public.
So we've had people take on coaching clients.
Speaking clients get opportunities before they've even announced that they're coaching or speaking or before they have a website.
But my favorite recent story is I have somebody that's really effective in their job, mid-level leader, really outstanding practitioner in their industry, all of those things.
And he started to take this approach.
He started to teach on leadership and a specific aspect of leadership.
And what's interesting is that there was a board of directors seat that's opening up in his organization.
And he People let him know that his name has been tossed around for a board position because they've started to see him in a different light.
They've started to see him as a thought leader and a leader.
He hasn't even made an announcement that he's coaching, speaking or consulting.
It's just that example of authority growing in a way that's true to who you are.
Wow.
Wow, wow, wow.
And I love so much about this because I'm looking at the notes and thinking about the inventory of brilliance.
This is one of the things that happens so frequently.
I think about some of my friends.
Oh, I'll give you an example.
Whitney, my wife.
There you go.
You married up.
I did too.
Man, well done.
I love it.
We definitely did.
Definitely.
And I said, and so when Whitney wants to get a new job, she just kind of picks it.
She's like, I'm going to work there.
And she says, or I'm going to work as one of these three, whichever gives me the best offer.
I'll take interviews and everything.
And I said, hey, wait, do you realize that's not how normal people operate?
They don't just pick it.
You know, there's some questions.
That's exactly right.
That's confidence right there.
I love it.
And so I showed her the stats.
And sometimes you need a good friend to tell you what it is that you bring to the table, because it's so obvious to you that you think everybody's doing it.
And it might seem strange that your brilliance is not obvious.
You might not recognize it, but that is exactly, to your point, what makes it brilliant.
So I think when you do this, when you experiment with teaching, you get the reps, which gets you better at teaching.
But you also get the confidence because you get that feedback where people are just blown away by that which you think is everyday knowledge.
And then you say, oh, wait a second.
There is something here.
Right.
And there is going back to being bored out.
Uh, one of the things that we see starting to happen.
You know, of course, the part of the goal is to build your authority right to bridge to a new type of authority, but it really like to see some of our, our leaders that come in that are are probably close to being burnout as well as bored out.
And you see that fire, you know that's that started to flicker, maybe even start to go out.
I know for me, when I was in that bad fit job, that was my wife's biggest concern.
She's like, your fire is going out.
And I see that and I felt that.
But what we do is we see people when they're starting to, to actually step into this and recognize some of their brilliance.
Right.
And to be able to step out and have impact. you see that light come back on.
You see that fire start to relight and it's like, Oh, there they are.
There's there.
That's who they are authentically.
And, and the beauty of it is as you start to build your business, some people, That's all they do.
It's it's a it's something that goes alongside what they do.
And, like I said, they get to pay for some really nice vacations or they get to pay off the house or they get to pay for their kids college.
That way,
And that's great.
That's all they want to do.
But some people it becomes their full-time gig or it becomes the way like one of our folks, he basically got to retire about 10 years earlier than he planned because this side income kind of replaced what he thought he was going to have to kind of drudge out for the last 10 years of a career that he wasn't passionate about anymore.
So it's really a beautiful thing and it allows people to take those first steps to figure out what's next.
You know, something I just realized Mitch, is that you are the first person that I've heard talk about a side hustle or building your career in this type of way, even if it's pre-revenue.
Using that as leverage, even unintentionally, like the story that you gave for promotions at work, because we always think about a side hustle as a bridge to an exit, which it potentially could be, but it doesn't have to be.
And I think giving people the recognition that you have the opportunity to choose what path works best for you is really empowering.
But I've never heard somebody talk about how this side hustle, or the early stages of a side hustle, could be leveraged within what it is that you're actually doing now for more status, more prestige, more revenue or a better position.
I am honored that you would would notice that speak that that that means the world to me.
But it also brings up a really important step is that negotiation is a core part of this.
Yes.
Yes.
Because when you're doing this and doing this right, if people are on the authority bridge, you can definitely do your experiments in.
You know, value driven promotion, putting good content out, but at some point, in order for it to grow you also.
There's at least one negotiation conversation in there where the person needs to say hey, I'm going to go to either my direct supervisor or the right leader within their organization to let them know their intentions.
And the negotiation aspect of that is, if you go in equipped, it is truly something that can allow, like your authority outside but your authority inside, to grow.
And you're exactly right.
Yep, this is incredibly powerful.
And there are so many people, because I hear this a lot.
When it comes to negotiating for a higher salary or a promotion, people feel stuck in so many cases.
They say I like my job, I don't want to leave, but for whatever reason, there's no upward mobility here.
So what do I do?
And now we've given them another path where we could either help the employer recognize hey, you might lose me completely
Or there is actually a something that is truly value adding, that I could do, that you haven't considered.
That can position me for more revenue or a promotion.
And so, for those people who are feeling really stuck, this gives you what you need to really have a lot of swag at the negotiation table, which is options.
Because if you come to the negotiation table and you say, hey, can I have a raise or else what?
Or else I'm just going to sit here and take it, boss.
That's what I'm going to do.
Like nothing at all.
That's not a great negotiation strategy.
Exactly right.
And it's one of those things of being able to say, when you're able to walk in, being authentically, you right.
And to be able to look somebody in the eye and know that you have options.
But you were still like if you still want to be there to be able to say Hey listen, I'm still going to deliver.
I'm going to do what I, my job calls me to do.
And then some.
And I'm going to do this thing because I think it's going to help me to be a better leader.
I think it's going to help me to be a better operator, a salesperson to be able to say.
It's going to allow me to be excited, fired up.
If you're ready for that conversation, it's.
It's amazing how many times the leader they're talking to either says
Tell me more or take me with you when you go.
Like, oh my gosh.
Right.
Like that's literally what my manager in the pharmaceutical world told me in the end was I think I'm going to work for you someday.
Take me with you when you go.
And I was like, hey, I'm not going anywhere yet, right?
But he's like, this is amazing.
I love that you're doing it.
You're scratching an itch.
You're doing something.
And for me, I had to find a way to honor my day job.
I had to honor the schedule.
I had to hit my numbers.
I still had to deliver on everything I committed to.
But when I could do that and you know for me in that pharmaceutical job, what I wound up doing was I landed on a client, that a type of client where I was helping them change careers.
And so I couldn't coach during the day because I was in pharmaceuticals.
I needed to be at my job all day.
So what I did was I coached on Tuesday nights and Saturday mornings.
And I didn't have to say, by the way, I have a full time job.
I just had to say, hey, I help people.
I coach people through career change.
You don't want to have that conversation at work.
So, being a good coach, I offer times that will allow you to have this conversation from the safety of your own home or a place where you don't have to worry about your boss overhearing.
Right.
It worked for my schedule.
It worked for my client schedule and it allowed me to present it to my manager saying see, when I operate It's not during the hours I've committed to you.
And that's the key.
And that's also part of the beauty of the structure, right?
Not only is it a pathway that allows us to see how it's possible, but it also is a pathway in your potential negotiations to be able to say We're good.
We're clear.
I'm not violating anything.
I'm not hurting our business.
I'm not taking away from what I've committed to do in my job, but to be able to say listen, it's still structure.
It's still a business and it's exciting.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
And let's talk about the money line because this is challenging.
I remember when I was Starting off, all of this was a side hustle.
Started off as something on the side and we slowly incrementally built it to where it is today.
And I remember.
Which is a machine, by the way.
You guys are killing it.
Thank you.
You are having massive impact.
I love what you guys are doing.
It's amazing.
So hats off to you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Brick by brick.
Year by year.
That's exactly.
That's how it does it.
That's how we do.
Yeah.
And the one of the most awkward parts of the transition was when I was practicing law.
So people knew me more as a lawyer than anything else.
And I was doing negotiation trainings to really drum up business for the law firm, getting more entrepreneurial clients.
And then I fell in love with that aspect of the business.
I said, oh, I want to do more of this.
This is really exciting.
But then I had to eventually transition to the point where hey, those gigs that I was doing all around the city for free, now we have to pay.
And that can be really, really awkward.
And so before I tell any stories, I want to give you the floor here.
How do we cross that line?
Because that can be really awkward for people who are transitioning from the more hobbyist to the entrepreneur.
Yep.
Yep, exactly.
The hobby, the jobby, and then the career, right?
Like, And and I think what I what I love you, you've tapped into here is something really important.
One of the things people ask us all the time is like hey, you know what are the predictors of success with authority bridge, with coaching, with speaking?
And some of the predictors are are you are you already doing some form? of this?
Like is there any part of your job where you're speaking or looking for those opportunities to speak?
Or are you mentoring people just because you love to help people, right?
Like what are you already doing?
That hints at what, what you're passionate about, like what, what you're excited about, what you're designed to do.
Right.
And it doesn't have to be those things, but when those exist, those are predictors for success.
So your story is a great example.
Like you found speaking and we're like, Oh yeah, I love this.
Now I just need to find something that I'm passionate enough about to be able to say hey, how could I deliver on this in a way where I get paid and paid well?
Right.
And so that's a part of it.
Now this is why, you know, when we talk about that sequence, all of this matters, and why we talk about promotion, skills driven or, excuse me, value driven promotion and doing those posts where you start to build your authority without selling anything at first.
Right.
Because where a lot of people stumble is they decide they want to coach, they decide they want to speak.
And so what they do is they do some big grand opening on a website or on their coaching website.
Nobody knows it.
Nobody sees it coming.
And so it just feels like this hard right turn where everybody's shocked.
And that doesn't tend to set up a lot of trust.
That doesn't tend to set up a lot of buy in.
But when we do this in a way where it's intentional, where you've been delivering value, you've been building your authority.
Then, when you take that next step of being able to say hey, I'm going to coach, but to know who you coach and to actually have specific packages for those people,
That's one of those things that really helps people to be able to say oh, he's not coaching everybody.
She's not coaching everybody.
She's coaching this person and it looks this way.
Like, oh, they're a professional.
I'll never forget when I was first getting started.
I didn't understand any of this.
And I was floundering like hardcore lost.
And I met with one of my mentors who was a longtime entrepreneur.
And, you know, this is back in my pharmaceutical days.
Right.
So you know I'd sold a lot of drugs legally and you know I'd done a lot of training and all that stuff.
But I really didn't know how to sell coaching and I didn't know how to sell speaking.
And so I reached out to this mentor saying, hey, I'm frustrated.
Nothing seems to be working, all those things.
And he's like, hey, meet me at this coffee shop.
And this was in the early 2000s.
So there weren't that many coffee shops around at this time.
Right.
And I met him there and we sat down.
And I immediately just started to complain, like nothing is working and I suck and the world sucks and all this stuff.
And he's like, well, tell me about your sequence.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
And he goes, tell me about your sequence.
And I'm like, I don't, I don't know what you mean.
And you just asked me the same question.
Like, what do you mean?
And he's like, well, it, would you say this coffee shop is successful?
And I looked around and it was busy.
It was bustling.
There was a line.
Um, you know, all the tables were filled.
I was like, yeah.
And he goes, tell me what their sequence is.
I'm like, what do you, what do you mean?
He goes, Walk me through what you did when you got here.
And I said, well, I walked in the door.
I looked at the menu.
I figured out where the cash register was.
I walked up to the cash register.
I ordered.
Then I stood over there.
I waited for my coffee.
And then I came over to the table and sat with you.
And he goes, interesting.
That's a sequence.
What's your sequence?
I'm like, well, what do you mean?
He goes, let's not even worry about how people find you.
Once somebody finds you, what do they do?
Is there a menu?
Do they know where to order?
Do they know where to stand?
I'm like, no.
He goes, work on your sequence.
And so that's one of the things that we do, is we help people to figure out what makes clear onboarding, so that your ideal client goes oh my gosh, every part of this sequence makes sense.
Every part of the sequence doesn't feel awkward and weird.
Every part of the sequence helps me to know I'm with the right person.
So it's not just getting clear on your ideal client, but that is part of it.
It's not just getting clear on your coaching packages, but that's part of it.
It's not just your onboarding calls, but that's part of it.
It's all a sequence.
And each part of that, we always say, should attract your ideal client and repel A bad fit client.
And there's a lot of freedom in both of those things, right?
Like I know who I do my best work with.
I tend to work with fun, successful people.
I tend to annoy the shiznits out of grumpy people.
They don't tend to be the best coaching clients.
They don't tend to spend money on coaching.
Right.
So I don't care if I offend them.
Heck, that's part of the reason why my podcast is called Dream Think Do.
It annoys the shiznits out of grumpy people.
Right.
Like, oh, come on.
Right.
But my ideal client goes, what's that?
I want to know more about that, right?
So the sequence, as my mentor said, the sequence makes all the difference.
And once you see it, you can't unsee it.
But it's not obvious until you look.
Right, right.
One of the things that's interesting about being a coach especially when you're starting off, you don't have a salesperson selling for you.
You are selling yourself.
And in those situations, it can be really tough to bring those two parts of yourself sometimes.
So when it comes to these negotiations, you have to be able to advocate.
You need to set boundaries and protect your value.
And, at the same time, you need to do it in a way where you still respect and maintain the relationship with the person, because you're going to be working with them very closely, especially coaching.
And they're going to pay you like that's a part of the process, right?
They're going to pay you and probably pay you a lot.
What's wild about that, as you well know, is the more people pay, the more invested they are, not just monetarily, but from a commitment standpoint.
It's like I'm expensive now, just like you are.
I'm expensive as a coach and my people I know.
Part of the reason why they're wildly successful is often because they had to pay a lot to work with me.
So they're all freaking in.
They're all in.
Right.
And that's a big part of it.
Right.
So you're exactly right.
And I will say when.
When you understand the sequence.
The onboarding call is is a sales opportunity, but first it's a coaching opportunity.
And, and so part of that is to be able to say, like, I am a good salesperson.
Like I went to my first sales workshop uh, you know, uh seminar when I was 14.
Like It didn't make me like really attractive to girls, but it did make me a lot of money, right.
Like I fell in love with sales at a very young age, so I know how to sell.
But what we realize, especially for coaching, is that it needs to be a coaching opportunity first.
You need to be clear.
What's your intent with that conversation?
How do you bring value in that conversation?
How do you shoot straight with them to say if I don't think we're a good fit, I'll be the first one to tell you.
And then to be honest about that, right?
It's an amazing thing to be able to deliver value.
And for the right people.
It just makes sense to talk about what it is to work together and what your next steps are.
And it doesn't have to feel salesy.
It doesn't have to feel there's no manipulation to it.
If you understand that sequence for the right person.
It just makes sense.
It's just the natural conclusion of this process.
Yes.
Yes.
This is great.
And Mitch, this is the time in the episode where I will bring in Simone to ask a question.
He's always listening intently.
Dude, I can tell there's just so much brilliance in there just working away.
I love it.
Mitch, I want to keep talking about the sequence for a couple of minutes, or maybe hours or days, because I love it.
I am really excited about that because I've seen many people saying okay, I have 100000 views on maybe YouTube.
Okay, what are you doing with this?
100000 views, so maybe they don't have the sequence.
So i want you to share a couple of your secrets yeah, with us about how, maybe with an example or a story that you have about how to build uh, how to build a sequence, So starting from the end towards the beginning, or how can we build a sequence?
I love it.
I love it.
So and this is a great example because there's a lot of folks, especially that are, you know, I know you've got rock star listeners.
These are people that are out there that are making impact. that are doing the work.
They might even be doing some experiments in value-driven promotion, where they're putting out great content.
Maybe it's just because they're driven by curiosity or they really want to kind of figure out how do I help people right.
And there's a lot of folks, as you guys well know, there's a lot of folks on YouTube.
There's a lot of folks on Instagram.
There's a lot of people with podcasts that are doing great work, but they're not making any money.
And it was interesting.
I had somebody come to me and he was a retired executive, had a good podcast.
He asked me to be on it, which was an honor.
And afterwards, I was like, how is it going?
And he goes, well, I'm really trying to find sponsors for the podcast.
And I'm like, why?
And he goes, well, I'd like for it to generate some revenue.
And I'm like, well, what do you do?
And he goes, well, I'm wanting to do more coaching.
I'm wanting to do more speaking.
And I was like, I want to make a suggestion.
Are you open to it?
And he's like, of course.
And I said, be the sponsor.
Don't find sponsors.
Be the sponsor.
Tell them what you do and allow it to deliver value.
But be very clear with who you help and how you help them.
And just be the sponsor.
I said I'm guessing with the price point that you want to offer and what you want to deliver.
You don't need that many clients in order for the podcast to become very lucrative, right.
And he's like, oh, my gosh, I haven't been doing that.
And I said, a big part of that is clarity throughout.
Right.
It's that it's that pathway.
So our sequence really starts with a very specific way to get clear on who you want to help.
That's where it starts.
Actually, above that.
It starts with a little bit of time management.
That's specific to building something on the side with intentionality.
Then we move into coaching confidence.
So we have our coach training and certification that we offer that step two.
And a lot of the folks that come to us have gone through coaching other coach trainings that just don't have any business training, because 85 or more of the coach trainings that are out there don't have any business training at all.
And so a lot of the folks that come to us have, in some cases, multiple coach trainings.
And that's, and I say, Hey, if you're already a confident coach, you can skip to step three.
That's fine.
But if you want more confidence, stick around, get a certification, all those kinds of things.
But then we move into ideal client And we really take people through a very unique process that helps them get that clarity, but in a compelling way and an exciting way.
Then we move into packaging so people people can understand actually what they're delivering, how they deliver it, why they're excited about it, how it makes impact, all of those things.
One of the things we talk about is only about 10 of the people out there that call themselves coaches have defined compelling coaching packages only about 10.
There's a lot of people and some people will say that sometimes like I'd love to be a coach, but it just seems like there's a lot of people out there that call themselves coaches.
And we'll say that all the time.
But I'll say other coaches are not your competition.
No way, no matter how many coaches are out there.
Your competition, not other coaches, because a lot of coaches don't have actual businesses.
They just have a title.
But I said, even with that, your competition, not other coaches, your competition is the couch.
Your competition is comfort.
And a big part of what we're going to do is we're going to inspire people to say hey, I want to make a change.
I want to make the kind of change you're talking about.
And it looks like you have the pathway to help me do it.
And so how do we make that connection and that onboarding as smooth and as authentic as as possible.
And that's where we go next is client onboarding and we guide them through that process.
Now I know some people, it's funny, I do masterminds.
You probably do a lot of masterminds, too.
And there are a lot of masterminds that are like, hey, don't tell anybody about the sequence.
People get overwhelmed by more than two steps.
All this stuff, people, people will try to take it and run with it.
And I'm the first one to say, hey, listen.
I want to only attract the people who they're willing to work.
They want to work smart.
They want to know the sequence, but they're willing to work.
So I'm more than happy to scare away anybody that's not wanting to work.
The people that are wanting Maseratis and mansions by Friday more than happy to scare those people away.
Right.
But to be able to say, once you understand the sequence and then the nuances to that sequence, and if you want to go faster and further, then let's work together.
If not, no problem, no harm, no foul.
My hope is there are more people out there delivering their brilliance in a way that helps the world and helps them feel good about themselves.
That's great.
But I also love the idea of being able to deliver that in a way that also allows you to have more impact, more legacy and more income.
Brilliant.
Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, such a good answer.
Such a good answer.
Yes.
And here's, I think, what a lot of people are wondering.
So I just want to help people as we wrap up, help them to understand number one, how doable this is, and number two, in a palpable way, how their life changes.
Because when people come through your program about what percentage of them, get to the point where they do that number one experiment where they are actually adding real, tangible value even though there's no money.
And number two, get to the point where they are generating some level of income in your program.
What would that look like?
Well, I can tell you, you know it's, it's funny, those kinds of questions.
You know, the first thing you have to say is well, it depends.
Right.
But one of the things is it's crazy with our program is we offer a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee to be able to say get into the program.
See if it's what I'm talking about.
I don't want somebody to get in there and realize it's something different than what I said it was, and all of that.
In our industry, refund rates are 35 to 40%.
In any coaching program, refund rates are about 35 to 40%, which is kind of startling.
It's probably cautionary for anybody that's thinking about offering something like this.
Our refund rate is 2%.
Wow.
Now the reason why I bring that up when you ask that question is to be able to say one of the things we always say is run with this.
Do this thing.
And if it's not working for you, ask for a refund.
Get out.
Right.
But if it is working, then then stay with it.
So let's talk numbers.
Let's talk numbers.
Yes.
So just want to give people an idea of what they could realistically expect.
Yeah, this is such an important conversation because I think to your point.
I think it's easy to just assume ah, it's just a few people that can be successful at this, or they already have to have a huge following, or they all already have to have authority.
Most of our folks don't have much social media presence at all.
They don't have an email list, but they're willing to start and they're willing to step out into that sequence and follow it.
And it's a beautiful thing.
And many of our folks a vast majority of our folks are able to cover their investment with just one paying client.
And that's often the case over and over again.
But I think for us, one of the big things that I love is I love people being able to not only start strong, but to stay strong.
Um, people stay with it.
They understand it.
They start to walk out that sequence.
It finally makes sense.
And I know for a lot of our folks.
A lot of our folks have been through other programs so they've seen stuff not work.
And so for this, it's so often we hear like, Oh, This is why it wasn't working before.
Or for folks that have never been in a program before.
We'll often hear like thank you for saving me so much time right.
And that's what we love is to be able to see people making impact.
But you know we have people selling and and i i don't want to hype it, i'm not one of the mansions of maseratis by friday kind of guys, right.
But when you can see somebody that's a working mom That has been bored out either by being in the classroom or being in the boardroom and they're able to sell 20000 worth of coaching,
And all of a sudden you see them see themselves in a different way.
One of my favorite examples of this, we have a.
A college professor who is amazing in the classroom, loves her students, but she was getting bored out.
And, as you can imagine, in education there's a lot of changes, a lot of additional restrictions and expectations and all those things.
And she was starting to lose that fire for being able to see that impact.
And so she went through our authority bridge process, and what was beautiful was she started to realize all the brilliance that she was swimming in.
Right.
And she almost immediately sold about twenty thousand dollars worth of coaching in her first two months.
That's not a promise that everybody will do that, but that's something that can happen.
And what's what's incredible is to see that fire come back on.
And and she has been able to negotiate the ability to be able to do this on the side of what she's doing.
She's staying in the classroom.
Her authority on her campus has actually grown.
She's gotten some new opportunities to teach faculty, some of the things she's coaching on, all those things.
Um, but you could see herself see, you could see her, see herself in a new light.
But one of the things that I love the most is she has two kids and they're watching her build her business.
She said, my kids are thinking like entrepreneurs.
We're having conversations at the dinner table of why I'm choosing to do one thing or why I'm not choosing to do something else, right?
Negotiating life.
And she said, my kids are starting to look at the world differently, too.
And that's that's what I love.
There is a ripple effect when you start to do this, that not only can you have more impact, not only can you generate more income, but you start to touch those lives around you in ways you never thought possible.
Perfect.
That is exactly what we're looking for.
This is great.
And I tell you, if you're able to make this step, your world opens so much and you start to look at money and time very, very differently.
Because once this starts to work, you will recognize, wait, wait a second.
I worked for an hour and I got paid how much?
And then you start to like those, those math memes where the math agents are.
Exactly right.
One of our authority bridge people just sent me a text.
She's like, I just sold my first $15,000 keynote.
This is insane.
Right?
And it's one of those things where she's getting paid fifteen thousand dollars for an hour and, as you well know, she put, she put time in to this, like she has built her business, all those things is not just the hour.
At the same time, she's getting 15 grand for an hour, so she's like this is pretty great.
So um, i love that.
I love that when it, when it starts to happen yeah yep yep, because you start to do that math, you're like wait a second.
So i do like This math man.
I like this math.
Yeah, it doesn't take much to replace your salary with that.
That's great.
That's right.
So listen, Mitch, this is probably going to be the hardest question.
So bear with me.
It's a challenging one.
Let's say there's somebody who is out there.
They're dreaming.
They're thinking they want to do something.
Is there a podcast or show that you might recommend for them or program?
I think in a courtroom, do they call this leading the witness?
I will take it.
You want to serve it up like that?
I will take it.
Yes, there is one that comes to mind.
I don't know why, but there is a podcast called Dream Think Do.
I would love for people to come over and take a listen.
I will love to have you come over and join me in Dream Think Do in an upcoming episode.
I'm very much looking forward to that.
With Dream Think Do.
I've just gotten to talk to a lot of different people.
You know bestselling authors like Brendan Burchard and Lewis Howes.
We've had Michael Hyatt on.
We've also had Oscar winners.
We've had Olympians.
We've had extreme athletes.
And it just helped to get in their head to say, what allows you to dream bigger?
What allows you to think better?
What allows you to do more of what you're put on the planet to do?
And we have these real raw conversations about how to make that happen.
And so absolutely.
Come on over, spend some time with us.
And I'm excited to keep this conversation going.
Amazing.
Mitch, this was brilliant.
Really appreciate you, brother.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
And I do want to say we've got a special gift for your audience.
We put together, we have a training called Making Time for Your Next Chapter.
Because one of the things we found with a lot of the folks that are a good fit for Authority Bridge is they're busy.
Their schedules are full already.
So the thought of adding something to the side might feel a little impossible.
And so we have this training called making time for your next chapter, which really does help you to figure out how this might in fact be possible.
And then we, we talk about, you know some strategies for being able to manage your time, to add something, add some novelty, add something new.
And then we also talk about the authority bridge program, just a little bit so we can find out hey, is that right for me or not?
We charge $97 for it, but for your audience, we wanted to make it free.
So people can go to MitchMatthewscom backslash time and then they can use the coupon code negotiate.
And that will get them the workshop for free.
Amazing.
Thank you for your generosity.
Really appreciate it.
Oh, happy to do it.
Thank you for this opportunity.
You're amazing.
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