Welcome to the Allie on the Run show.
I'm your host, Allie Feller, and this is where I talk with people who are doing exciting things on the run and beyond.
From professional athletes and celebrity runners to the everyday amateur and back of the pack runner.
We are here to celebrate everyone and anyone who enjoys a life on the run.
Whether you are running towards something big or away from something that's been holding you back, I am here to hold your hand and help you pick up the pace.
Oh my gosh.
Katie Couric is here.
If you know me at all, you know that Katie Couric has been my idol since I was in high school.
I shared this during our conversation, but my little party trick in high school was that I used to pretend I was Katie Couric and I would go around interviewing party goers.
Katie was a major influence in my decision to major in journalism in college.
And I've always said news anchors, especially morning talk show hosts are my A-list celebrities.
Like so many of us, I grew up watching Katie Couric.
In 2014, I met Katie on a street corner on the Upper East Side of New York City and she was so kind, so generous with her time and so fun to talk with.
Having her as a guest on the Allie on the Run show has always been a dream.
Is she a runner?
No, she's not, and we talk about that.
But hey, her two daughters, Carrie and Ellie, are both marathoners, and we talk about that.
I will say this conversation went in every direction I never planned for.
I was prepared for this chat, as you do when you're recording with Katie Couric.
But she took every opportunity to flip the script and ask me questions.
Classic journalist always wanting to be the one in the driver's seat.
I expected we'd talk about her rise in media, her time on the Today Show and her post-Today Show ventures.
I figured we'd touch on what a day in the life looks like these days at the helm of Katie Couric Media, where she publishes a daily newsletter, Wake Up Call and hosts the Next Question with Katie Couric podcast.
And of course, I assumed we'd talk about cancer, including her breast cancer diagnosis in 2022.
We did talk about that.
We also talked about so much more, including plenty of Katie Couric hot takes that had me sweating.
Without further ado, please welcome Katie Couric to the Allie on the Run show.
It is really fun to get to say that.
Katie Couric, welcome to the Allie on the Run show.
How are you doing today?
I'm great, thank you.
I'm a lot better than the marathon runners who were running their hearts out yesterday.
I've watched a lot of them.
You know, gosh, Allie, I was really sore from doing a strength training class and Pilates.
I could never in a million years run a marathon, nor do I have any desire to.
Okay, that was going to be my next question.
When you were watching, was there a little part of you that was like, maybe?
Not a scintilla.
Not one bit. iota not one teeny tiny shred did i think wow i wish i were doing that all right glad we cleared that up right off the bat so let's hear about your day at the new york city marathon you were out spectating i watched your instagram stories it looked like were you on central park south and then in the park no so that's i cheated a little bit ellie okay and now i guess i'm gonna be public about it my friend nicola has an apartment on a high up floor on fifth avenue And I said, Nicola, it's like a drone shot.
Will you send me a couple of videos?
So she did.
I was making my way to her around three in the afternoon.
But it was such a mob scene.
And the sidewalks were packed.
My patience was wearing thin.
And she said, let's call an audible.
Don't come over.
So basically I watched like in the 80s for a little while with my husband and then I walked.
I was on Fifth Avenue watching there because I was going up to the hardware store to find a nut chopper, because I made granola last night.
This is my very exciting life, Allie.
They did not have, much to my chagrin, a nut chopper.
Like what's wrong with these people?
You know those jars and they basically have handles.
And you put the nuts in the jar and then you just pump the handle and it just cuts the nuts all up.
At a hardware store?
Well, where else do you get a nut chopper?
I don't know.
Williams-Sonoma?
Maybe, but I think there's... Which would be even harder to get to on the other day.
Yeah.
So anyway, I was very, very bummed.
I bought a couple of little cocktail napkins so it wasn't all for naught.
But then I was walking down Fifth Avenue and it was a mob scene.
But it is very inspiring.
This year was unusual because I usually know a lot of people who are participating in the marathon and I didn't know that many people this year who were running.
Well, you might have no desire to run it, but running is in your family.
Both of your daughters have run marathons.
Ellie has run LA.
Carrie ran New York.
The girl did her homework.
Yeah.
Yes.
Carrie did New York.
And, uh, and, and Carrie, uh, did the Paris marathon also.
Amazing.
Yeah.
And I think she was going to do one in Savannah, but ended up not doing it.
But yes, both Ellie and Carrie have successfully completed marathons and it's, it's quite an accomplishment.
I mean, when I saw people walking around with those little orange capes, I was like congratulations.
I saw some girls this morning with their medals around their necks.
I mean, it's, it's, it's really something.
Um, And it's just something that I will never experience, Allie, and I'm okay with that.
Yeah, you don't have to, but you have a running background.
I do.
Let's hear about it.
Well, when I was a little girl, I was a really fast runner.
I was very, very much a tomboy.
And I was a really fast sprinter.
So I think when I was in fourth grade...
The gym teacher at Jamestown Elementary in Arlington Virginia, took me out of class to run against the six-rate boys.
So I think I did the 50-yard dash.
It's probably not impressive anymore, but back in the day I did it 6'2, the 50-yard dash, and I was very good at the shuttle run.
All those things that you needed for the President's Council on Physical Fitness test.
I have trauma from that.
Really?
Like the bar hang?
Yeah.
And you had to do the long jump.
I took those very seriously, Allie.
I'd get my hair cut.
I would put... Because I'd want to weigh less.
I'm like, what?
I would put Bengay all over my legs the night before.
Wait, how old were you?
I was like nine.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Yeah.
So then you and I were talking, before we turned the tape recorder on, about girls and sports and puberty.
And I was kind of a living example of that.
Although...
I did run in high school but I became now.
This probably is a scandalous thing to say, but I do think that when I developed in puberty and I became curvier and got breasts and everything, I do think I became less fast.
Or maybe I became less motivated, but I ended up joining the track team in high school.
I was a cheerleader.
I'm so embarrassed.
I was a cheerleader.
No, I wanted to be a cheerleader so bad.
I love cheerleaders.
Why are you embarrassed?
Well, cheerleading requires much more athleticism than it used to.
And no offense, cheerleaders out there who might be listening.
I just feel like if you're going to be active and now it is so much gymnastics.
So I'm not talking about modern day cheerleading, because respect, but But back in the day we didn't do – I mean we jumped a little and you know did – you know danced around two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar and all that stuff.
But it wasn't particularly athletic.
And I just think my time would have been better spent.
My friends were on the gymnastics team.
I was interested in gymnastics when I was little too.
I you know – would do like a cartwheel in the splits in the living room for my sister's boyfriends when they came to pick them up for dates.
I was like the, the dancing monkey in my family.
It was like, Katie, will you sing jolly old St.
Nicholas while I play the piano?
Cause I was the youngest of four.
And of course that was adorable Allie.
So I would perform, I'm kidding, but I would perform for my sister's boyfriends and friends anyway.
Um, so I, getting back to school, I, ended up being on the track team in high school.
And, uh, I did, I was a third leg, the slowest leg of the four 40 relay team.
And we were third in the state, which was good.
And that was, that was a lot of fun.
So I didn't totally give it up.
I kind of got back into it in high school.
So you mentioned earlier, you said Pilates strength training.
So what does fitness wellness health?
What is that part of your life look like these days?
I mean, I try to do as much as I can.
I'm trying to do strength training.
I'm sort of your classic endo, meso, ecto.
Am I a mesomorph?
Is that the muscular one?
Well, ecto and endo, I think that's tall, skinny, and then a little heavier.
I think mesomorph is the kind of middle muscular person, but I'm fairly mesomorphic.
That's a word we've never had on the alley on the run show.
So I love this.
And so I, I, I have muscle memory from when I was little.
Um, so I try to do some weights.
I do Pilates three times a week.
I walk 16,000 miles on Saturday, 16,000 steps, not miles.
I thought you were going to say over the course of the year.
No, 16,000 steps.
Sorry, everyone on Saturday.
Um, so I do try to walk.
Um, You know, I'm trying to stay active.
I'm 68 and it's really important.
But I do find that my joints are sore and I'm creaky and it's, you know, it's hard for me.
And I'm not as flexible as I used to be.
So I think I need to do much more stretching.
Oh, and P.S., I'm a pickleball fanatic.
I know.
I was waiting for that to come up.
I love pickleball.
I've met a whole new group of friends in East Hampton who I play pickleball with.
I don't do it as much in the city.
But it's been so much fun.
And I just love the game.
I play a little tennis.
I've played sporadically my whole life tennis, but never enough to get really good.
And so pickleball is, I think the learning curve isn't as steep.
It's not as strenuous, but you do get a workout and it's just so much fun.
And I have a pickleball court.
Well, I have a tennis court in my backyard and I converted into two pickleball courts.
You can still play tennis on it if you don't mind the annoying blue lines that we've added.
But it's so much fun because people come over and we just play for a couple of hours when I'm out there.
Oh, The dream.
When you're out walking tens of thousands of steps, how much?
Especially in the city, like if you're out walking in Central Park?
How much are you getting?
Hi, Katie.
And how much are people recognizing you?
Are you kind of head down?
What's it like being Katie Couric in New York City?
You know, New Yorkers could not give a rat's ass alley that I am there walking in Central Park.
First of all, you know, it's funny.
My husband makes fun of this, because when I do have makeup on and I like, I don't know I've gone somewhere, I'm going somewhere and I have mascara on and lipstick.
I get recognized much more when I'm like totally makeup free.
And usually like an event like the marathon which brings a lot of out-of-towners into New York, I usually get more hi Katie type thing.
And people are so nice.
I'm, you know, I...
They never bother me.
They're never rude.
They're always really sweet.
I always try to be gracious, because the last thing I would want Allie, is to have someone come home to their family or say oh, I met Katie Couric.
She was such a bitch.
Or she's not that nice in person.
Don't meet your hero.
I would be so mortified, honestly.
So I'm so nice to the point where my husband is like, can you come up with an exit question?
So you know, because I end up like la la um, but in general in new york uh, you know, once in a while i get recognized and someone will say hi, and then sometimes i'm like do i know you?
Do i not know you?
Are you just saying hi because you recognize me, did you?
Or you know, once in the grocery store somebody said hi to me and i was like oh hi, you know, kind of like hi casual, sort of semi-fakey friendliness, And the person was like I went to high school with you and I was so embarrassed.
So you have to kind of really figure out do I actually know this person, or are they just being friendly?
I feel like that's why the good line is always good to see you.
Oh, I always do that too.
Because then even if you're meeting for the first time, it's great to see that person.
I know.
And then they don't feel like I've met you 12 times and you're still saying nice to meet you.
I say, I have that trick too, Allie.
It's very effective.
All right.
Let's talk about some very important stuff.
I saw your Halloween costume.
Oh, the wig was too blonde.
It was more Pamela Anderson.
But for some reason, I ordered that wig.
I don't know what I was thinking.
And my doorman Rene.
I thought we always hand out candy at the front window of our apartment building.
It's such an interesting phenomenon here in New York.
Because when my kids were little, we would actually go apartment to apartment.
And especially in our own building, right?
Mm-hmm.
And now it's really it's all done in the front.
And a friend of mine, my Pilates teacher, said they were invited to go the sixth floor of some apartment.
She goes, isn't that weird?
They invited us to actually knock on the apartment doors.
And I was like, no, actually, that's what we used to do all the time.
Every apartment would pass out candy.
But but we like.
Nowadays, we just go to this window.
A couple of years ago I think, two years in a row Kathy Najimy from Hocus Pocus came and did it with me because she's a friend of mine and so funny and fun.
I didn't invite her this year.
I'm sorry, Kathy.
I'm sure she's a big listener.
She's going to hear this.
She's probably really.
She loves running podcasts.
Huge fan.
Huge fan.
But so I dressed up as Taylor Swift.
My poor assistant was ordering something from Amazon that arrived Friday afternoon, of course, because I'm a master procrastinator.
But I was in the – was it the red era?
Red, yeah.
And Rene, our doorman, who's so cute and nice, we got him a Travis Kelsey T-shirt.
We couldn't – the jerseys were going to get here this week, and they were all from China.
Who knows?
So we got him a T-shirt and he was my – fiance, and so we passed out candy together.
It was really fun.
I love it.
Well no, did you dress up for Halloween?
I didn't, because I was here for the marathon yeah, so you had bigger fish to fry.
I yeah, I mean, I think I was at a party so, wait.
So you weren't with your little girl for Halloween.
She was with her dad.
This oh, so I and Annie is her name.
What did she dress?
Your homework, what did she?
Well, you showed me her picture.
She's so, so cute.
What did she dress that?
She was a leopard?
Oh, cute she.
It's always something in the cat family.
She wants a cat.
So bad.
But my mom is allergic oh, and my mom, my parents come over all the time.
Oh, and i've never had a cat.
Could you get her a hairless cat?
No, that's one of my greatest fears i have.
I'm sorry that i had a full body reaction to that.
Um, i have some weird things that i'm deeply afraid of, and hairless cats is like very high on that list.
Wow yeah, isn't?
Didn't dr evil have a hairless cat?
I don't know the episode of friends where rachel gets the hairless cats can't even watch it.
Oh really yeah, i have to get that funny okay, oh well, that's actually so not.
Is there a way?
I guess there's no way that you could keep the cat in a different part of the house?
I feel your pain, because my daughter ellie, is allergic to cats.
I grew up with cats, i love cats and um, that that's tough.
How about a dog?
If you gotta have a dog, we have a dog.
So we're good.
Oh okay so, and i, i've got my hands full yeah, so what kind of dog do you have?
Uh, she's a total mutt rescue with a huge underbite.
Yeah, she's perfect, she's adorable.
What's her name?
I don't want to tell you.
Go ahead.
Her name's ellie.
Oh, you're kidding, that's so cute.
I always feel bad when people are like that's my kid's name and i'm like that's my dog's name.
That's okay.
Yeah i, It's a great name.
Yeah.
And it was the name, got the dog before I had my daughter.
And so Ellie was always one of the names that I liked.
And I was like, well, whichever I get first.
Oh, okay.
Will be the name.
I like Annie too.
That's a really cute name.
Both good.
All right.
So since you are a Swifty.
Yeah.
You went to the airstrip.
Well, I am kind of a Swifty, but not as much of Swifty as my daughters.
And now I think my youngest daughter is, she wasn't really into this latest album.
I don't get... deeply embroiled in Swiftology, if you will.
But I know people have very strong opinions.
But having said that, I had the opportunity to interview Taylor back in the day.
I think I went shoe shopping with her.
I did a Grammy special when I was at CBS.
And I interviewed Taylor, Katy Perry, and Lil Wayne.
Oh, that's a lineup right there.
Yeah, yeah.
That's when he famously said, I'm a gangsta, Miss Katy.
I'm a gangster miss five words.
Well, I'm Yeah, yeah, five words.
I never that were not on my bingo card.
But anyway, Taylor.
I haven't talked to her in a long time.
But she was so sweet.
And she's so talented.
And yeah, so and I really appreciate so much about her.
I think it's interesting.
She's marrying the football player.
You know sort of like these unrequited childhood dreams of being the cool girl you know and the head cheerleader marrying the captain of the football team.
It's sort of funny and ironic to me.
But if she's happy, I'm happy.
And he seems like he really respects her and supports her and appreciates her art.
And I think they're really cute together.
So I wish them the best.
Yeah, I love it.
And I love that you've You've gotten to interview her in the past.
I was looking at some of those.
Oh, you were?
Gosh, you did a deep dive.
Well, and I mean, I'm always happy to do, whether it's a Katie Couric deep dive or a Taylor Swift one, when my worlds combine.
Are you a big Swifty?
I am a big Swifty.
Oh, yeah.
How about Annie?
Annie is.
Annie loves the new album.
Oh, does she?
She's very into it.
So it's been fun to listen to it with her.
I was watching.
I know off topic a bit, but there's a New York Times opinion columnist named Ross Douthat.
I always say his name wrong.
And he went on a tirade about how Taylor's new album sort of, what was he?
It was capturing MAGA in a moment where it was sort of vulgar with that song Wood which I think, like everyone, getting carried away.
Could she have kept out the thighs thing?
I kind of think so, like I'd like the whole knock on wood and I, but I guess she has to evolve.
But I still think of all these little girls listening to her.
And I do think she has a bit of a responsibility to those, those little girls who make such a big part of her fan base.
Um, but his whole point.
And then I guess, this other song she did about a picket fence or a house in the neighborhood blah blah, blah.
What song is that?
Um, wishlist.
Yeah.
And then there was one other song, uh, But his, oh, about being in a committed relationship.
What song was that?
Like staying true to her vows or something.
Anyway, it doesn't matter.
So his argument was she, the album was kind of MAGA.
And I wrote in the comments, I don't know why I do this.
Because I'm like, why am I putting myself out there?
But once in a while.
And I said, just because somebody wants to be in a committed relationship and live in a nice house and, kind of you know, raise a child in a nice place, doesn't mean they're MAGA.
Like you don't have a corner on that market.
So I don't know why I told you that, but I just thought it was interesting how people interpret her music and interpret sort of where she is and kind of saying she's now a trad wife.
I just, I think that's a bunch of malarkey.
I like that you're wading into the comments section on the New York Times.
Are you commenting as Katie Couric or do you have an alias?
It's you.
Do people respond realizing it's you?
I haven't checked.
I haven't checked because, you know.
You don't want to go back to the comments.
Well, I'd be interested in hearing especially what he has to say about it.
But once in a while I do kind of I give my two cents about certain things if I feel strongly about them.
I feel strongly about Taylor Swift, so I get it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So, as I was starting to tell some friends this weekend that we were recording together today, because they all know that I was very excited.
Every single person that I talked to, and this runs the gamut of the types of people and how I know them and and our connection.
Everyone has a Katie Couric story.
Oh, no.
Every single person.
I hope they're good ones.
Yes, everyone.
I mean, half of them are like, oh, tell her I say hi.
I saw her at a cafe once.
Or my friend Erin met you in a dressing room at a Madewell and you told her that the dress was good, but she needed a different bra with it.
Dina Castor, Olympic bronze medalist, has a Katie Couric story.
Can you believe that I do stuff like that?
Well, first of all, we need more honesty in women's dressing rooms.
Then I said that I tell her to get a new bra.
Well, I think that's helpful.
I know.
I mean, I try to be.
She loved it.
I actually really like, I have so many dreams that are unfulfilled.
Like I wish I worked in retail, because I love helping people find cute clothes that they feel good about and that they like.
And usually, I don't know, I'm just very outgoing and friendly.
And so if I'm in a dressing room and somebody comes out, I like to kind of weigh in and I'd like to hear what they say about what I'm wearing.
Yeah.
I love that person in a dressing room, especially if I'm shopping alone.
Yeah.
I'm.
I kind of always I'll just like linger in front of the mirror hoping that the sales person is going to come over, but they're usually going to tell you it looks good.
Yeah.
I want you to be deeply honest.
Yeah.
Cut me with your words right now.
Tell me what this needs.
Tell me how this can be better.
I need that.
Yeah.
And people have done that for me too and said, no, that's, that dress doesn't look good on you.
And I, and I know it.
Because I'm pretty, at this point, know what looks good and what looks bad on my body.
You know at this point.
But I appreciate it when people are honest with me, too.
I thought it was just so fun that everyone has a Katie Couric story.
As I'm telling different people, they're all chiming in.
Tom Carleo, who is the, I should know his exact title, but he's very important at New Balance.
And he had a Katie Couric story at dinner last night.
So I wanted to tell you, if I may, my Katie Couric story.
Yes, please.
And I have two.
And this first one probably shouldn't even be on the record, but it's fine.
It's my show.
It's my rules.
Yeah.
So when I was in high school...
And would go to parties.
And maybe we would be drinking at these parties.
And that's the part that I probably shouldn't admit.
But my parents know.
So it's fine.
So we would go to parties.
And so this was in.
You know.
The early 2000s.
And.
We didn't have iPhones.
We just.
We had like. or digital cameras.
Isn't that so funny?
And my party trick every weekend was I would take a bottle of whatever I was drinking and carry it around the party as my microphone.
And I would say, I'm Katie Couric reporting live from this party.
And I would interview all my drunk friends and make them record me as Katie Couric.
So you didn't know it, but you were my drunk alter ego.
I don't know if that feels like a compliment, but I hope you know what it is.
I am so touched.
And would you record these sessions or you would just do it for fun?
No, they exist somewhere.
Oh, my God.
That is so funny.
I know exactly who recorded them, too.
I don't think she would know where they are at this point, but I will reach out and be like hey, this would be helpful footage.
And what would be your bottle of choice?
Was it a long neck beer bottle?
Was it bourbon?
Was it vodka?
What was it?
Probably flavored vodka of some kind, like Smirnoff.
And you'd have like the whole bottle, big bottle.
I think that's what I would do impressive, and I would just walk around interviewing people as you so well.
I'm glad I inspired you.
Yes, and then my other uh, my other Katie Couric story is I used to live on the Upper East Side when I lived in the city and I had been sick for a really long time.
I have Crohn's disease.
It had been flaring really badly and I was not able to run through that time and once I finally got back on the run, which was in 2014, I went.
I went for like a really long run in Central Park and I was so excited and I was like I'm back and on my way back to my apartment, I'm just beside myself.
I'm so happy.
It's the best day of my life because i'm running again and i feel healthy.
And then i am outside a bakery on i think it was like 95th and madison.
And who is sitting on the bench?
You're a katie kirk.
No, i and i went to look it up.
It doesn't still exist.
Oh okay, it might have been like a corner bakery.
Oh maybe maybe maybe yeah, and i went in to treat myself to a chocolate croissant and you were sitting on the bench outside.
Did we speak we?
I, Katie?
I'm going to show you a picture because, of course, of course, I asked to take a picture.
You were with your dogs.
Um, and what I loved was that fed up had just come out and I had just watched it.
Oh my God.
That is on May 17th, 2014 on a little bench outside the bakery.
You look so cute.
What the hell am I wearing?
Um, Oh my God, they look like pajamas.
I remember those pants.
Good Lord.
Well, this is one of my no makeup days, Allie.
So I'm glad you recognize me.
It was like a Sunday morning and you were so gracious.
I told you I had just watched Fed Up and you said what did you?
Instead of just saying thank you, you said what did you think?
And you were asking me all kinds of questions about it.
And we had a long chat about it.
Oh, that's so funny.
And I don't think I worked up the courage to say like, Hey, I've always really looked up to you.
And when I chose to go to journalism school, what you have done in your career was a huge reason for me saying I want to be a journalist.
And inspired me to talk into flavored vodka bottles at drunk parties.
That was also, yes.
I would have liked that actually.
You should have told me.
So where did you go to college?
I went to Quinnipiac University.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
I was a print journalism major, which I don't think exists anymore.
Well, there's a print specificity.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there is still print.
It just isn't physically in your hand.
It's on in your phone.
But and and.
Then you moved to New York and you worked your way up from a reporter at a dance magazine to an editor.
So tell me how dancing and you're turning the tables.
Well, I'm curious how because I know you're a runner, right?
Yeah.
But how you went from dancing to running or running to dancing and then running.
How did that happen?
Yeah.
Okay.
We're flipping things around.
Do your listeners know all this?
Yeah, some of them do.
Okay.
Sorry, listeners, for the redundancy.
They're a lovely bunch.
They're happy to listen.
So I grew up dancing, was a competitive dancer, danced in college.
What kind of dancing?
Tap jazz, ballet.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
The classics.
But I knew I was never going to be a professional dancer.
That wasn't the goal.
I wasn't good enough for that there.
That wasn't happening.
I wanted to be a writer and so when I moved to New York City, I was like oh, I'm eating dollar slices around the clock.
I'm not dancing six hours a day.
I need to find something in the means of exercise.
And And my roommate, who I found on Craigslist she had all these medals hanging on her wall.
I like shiny things.
I was like, how do I get those?
And she explained to me that you can run races and everyone gets one.
You don't have to win.
Everyone gets a medal for running the race.
And so I... went out in my little jazz sneakers that I wore for dance.
And I tried to run on, uh, the East river along the FDR on that nice East river path.
And I ran four lampposts worth and was like, I'm a runner.
I did it.
And I just from there it's.
You know I got.
So you just kept getting and working, and working, and then you ultimately ran marathons.
Yeah.
How many marathons have you run?
I've run seven marathons.
Wow.
Three New Yorks.
New York's the best one.
Yeah.
Uh, so yeah, eventually dance went.
Dance was.
You know I loved working in dance but I loved running on the side, started a running blog, as one does.
And then I found, I was like, I'm thinking about running all the time.
And my passions were just kind of shifting.
I mean, I still love, love the arts.
Uh, and you were still at the time writing or editing or running this dance magazine.
Yeah.
I was writing my blog posts on my phone on the subway in the morning, hitting publish when I got to the office and then working all day.
And so what is the name of the dance magazine?
Dance Spirit Magazine.
It does not exist in print anymore.
No, but is it online now?
It is.
And it covers all kinds of dancing?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a teen dance magazine.
Oh, teen dance.
Which is also very, very fun.
The company also owned Dance Magazine, Point Magazine, so we kind of had the market cornered, which was nice.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah.
And so...
Point, I guess, would do more like the ballet stuff.
Yeah, and Point was one of our magazines.
You could have interviewed Misty Copeland.
Yeah, and I mean we used to go part of the.
One of the best perk of the job was we got endless tickets.
And so we were always at Broadway shows.
We were always at the ballet.
I saw that you were at her final performance.
It was such a treat.
I've watched the video of her curtain call like 12 times.
Wasn't it so moving?
And her son being there.
Her little boy.
Yeah.
I didn't know she dated Pharrell.
Ashley, my Pilates teacher, who gives me all the scoop on everything, told me at one point because I think she and Misty are about the same age.
She said when they were in their 20s, it was so cool that Misty Copeland was dating Pharrell.
Talk about a power couple, right?
That's very cool.
And a gorgeous couple.
Yeah.
And now she has a nice tall husband and a little boy who looks to be about three or four.
Yeah, I think he's three.
Yeah, he came out with flowers.
It was so sweet.
I mean, my friend Don Porter is working on a documentary about Misty.
And they were backstage together.
At the ABT, at her final performance.
And yeah, she's a really spectacular dancer.
And what I thought was so interesting.
I interviewed her once when I was doing a stupid daytime talk show.
And I had some, anyway, it was a bit of a disaster, but we don't have to get into that.
But anyway, I forgot, she's only 5'2".
She's tiny.
She is a tiny little thing.
Huge present, but tiny thing.
And as someone who myself is around 5'2 1⁄2 to 5'3", but recently shrunk an inch somehow.
Oh, no.
Very upsetting.
Very upsetting, Allie.
I was like, go Misty.
Go short people.
Go short people.
A win for the little ones.
Yeah, exactly.
Thank you, Misty.
But she's phenomenal.
Yeah.
So another thing that you and I have in common is Um.
As I was walking here, this was especially top of mind.
I was sitting at Angelina right on the corner.
I was sitting there on May 19th.
So, almost however many years later, after meeting on the Upper East Side.
Uh, just two days later, I was sitting there, May 19th 2023, with my friend Mary and was.
I had just gotten some testing done and was checking the portal online, and I was sitting right on your corner when I got a breast cancer diagnosis in 2023, which you are no stranger to.
You have done so much to raise awareness and to raise funds and to support research for cancer.
And then you end up getting your own diagnosis in 2022.
Well, I think it's so um, It's so commonplace now and so many people.
And one thing I'm particularly concerned about Allie, you're how old?
40.
40.
Is so many younger women and, in the case of colon cancer, so many young women and men are being diagnosed in their late 20s and 30s and early 40s with these specific cancers.
I don't know if you'd call them adenoma cancers or glandular cancers or whatever.
But yes, it's really, really upsetting.
And I was diagnosed in 2022.
I have a great breast radiologist.
And ever since my husband Jay died, he was 42.
And that was in 1998.
I've tried to be super vigilant about my health.
And I get both a mammogram and a sonogram because I have dense breasts, like 42 of women 40 and over.
And it's very hard to determine what's happening if your breasts are dense.
As my radiologist says, it's like trying to find a snowball against a backdrop of snow.
So mammography sometimes isn't sufficient.
So yes, I had... a breast ultrasound sonogram.
And she saw something in the mammogram she didn't like.
And they did a biopsy.
And sure enough, it was estrogen receptor or hormone receptor positive breast cancer stage 1B.
I had a lumpectomy and radiation and felt very fortunate that it was caught at this early stage.
What kind of breast cancer were you diagnosed with?
In 2023, I was diagnosed with stage 1 invasive ductal carcinoma.
I did four rounds of chemo.
So when you say a stage one invasive ductal, is that because of the location of where the breast cancer was?
So mine was bilateral.
So I had two lumps on the left side, one on the right.
The right one, I didn't feel on my own.
The two on the left, I did, which is why I went in and got checked.
We then learned that I have the BRCA2 gene, which I didn't know that I had.
My whole family has since gotten tested.
And does anyone else in your family have it?
My dad has it, so...
My dad has it, my uncle has it, I have it.
And we think that one of my male cousins he has not gotten tested, but just by knowing that it's a 50-50 chance and breaking down the math in the family his dad has it, his sister doesn't.
So yeah, so it is in the family.
It was probably always going to show up at some point, but we found that out after.
And then this May...
I was having chest pain, which I thought was costochondritis, because Dr Google helped me think of that.
And this was after I had done chemo.
I had a double mastectomy, reconstruction, a year of immunotherapy.
And then eight months after ringing the bell, came back, spread to the bones.
So it's now stage four.
Yeah.
So I'm in chemo.
I have chemo tomorrow.
You have chemo.
And how about immunotherapy?
Are there any immunotherapeutic options for you?
So right now we're starting with this chemo that is very new and very it's called in HER2 and it is great for exactly what I have, which is HER2 positive low.
Oh, you have HER2.
I get HER2 as well.
So Denny Slayman, who was one of the original people for Stand Up To Cancer, discovered HER2.
Yeah.
And so your, your tumor is, is HER2 positive, right?
Okay.
Yes.
And so you're getting, and is this a new iteration of Herceptin?
The Herceptin?
I'm not sure.
Okay.
But it sounds like it, which is the chemo is very new and literally was presented at a conference two days before I started chemo.
So we hadn't even decided.
We knew I was starting chemo but hadn't decided which kind and the data was so good on this drug.
And so I did, I'm tomorrow will be my eighth round.
And how, how are the side effects?
Uh, well, we're getting, I think to a sweeter spot in figuring out the meds.
The first couple rounds took me out.
Like I, after round two, I was so sick that I told my doctors I was done.
I was like, I can't, this is not a quality of life I can live with.
I had a really bad reaction to the nausea meds.
Uh, what's that called?
So it begins with the Z. Zofran.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was Zofran, Compazine and Dexamethasone.
I was on all three and I think I kind of overdosed on nausea meds.
Right.
Got really sick.
And so we're figuring it out now.
We're constantly tweaking things.
And so the past couple rounds have been great.
I mean, there's side effects I don't love.
Your hair.
Lost a lot of hair.
Yeah.
And anything else?
Lost a lot of hair.
Gained a lot of weight.
My face is puffy.
Honestly, well, you look great.
Thank you.
I would never know that.
Yeah.
So it's just, you know, it's that stuff.
I don't feel good for a couple days after.
And then I usually bounce back and...
So are you being treated in New York or in New Hampshire?
You're at Dartmouth.
Okay.
At Dartmouth.
Yeah.
And they have got a great cancer center, I imagine.
So you're close to Dartmouth?
An hour.
An hour.
Yeah.
But it's better than the drive into Boston which I said would take years off my life, driving in that traffic every three weeks.
Well, I'm so glad that you're getting treated at Dartmouth.
Are there other clinical trials that are going on or is this like...
I always like with Jay and my sister Emily, and I have a friend with glioblastoma right now that I'm trying to help her kind of find out what's happening in the landscape.
Are there other exciting things for your specific cancer that they're starting to develop?
Because it is a really exciting time for new development, even though You know so much, medical research funding has been pulled from NIH and NCI and all the research universities.
Yeah, which is endlessly frustrating, as you know.
So maddening.
So well, it makes no sense.
Disgusting and infuriating.
But yeah, I mean, the chemo that I'm on is one of them.
And we did scans after 12 weeks after being diagnosed and the scans were bad, gorgeous oh that's so great.
Oncologists even called them sexy oh.
So we were loving the results.
Yeah, i was like it is one of my best pictures.
Thank you so much.
Um, i actually said i was like these scans are not flattering.
When they sent them to me i was like it's not a, it's not a good angle, uh.
But yeah, i mean it showed massive reduction.
Oh, that's so wonderful.
We're very encouraged and that did make it easier after those rough few rounds to stay in it right like oh, it's working.
And do you get a?
You get a break between like sessions every three weeks, every Every three weeks.
Yep.
So every three weeks.
So it's not like every week and then a break.
Nope.
It's every three weeks.
Every three weeks for a couple of years.
Yeah.
It is a long term, which is hard to wrap my head around.
I know, but thank gosh they have this.
Yeah.
And it's one goodness.
I'm so happy to hear that honestly.
And I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Yeah.
It's been, it's been a rough couple of years.
How with your diagnosis, how much is that on your mind now?
Is it just when it's, or is it something you think about more often?
I mean, I think I have sometimes a false sense of security because it was early that my breast surgeon, who I love, Lisa Newman, who's really become a friend, felt like she was able to get it.
The radiation, I guess, is sort of insurance.
And my Oncotype.
You know, all I kept thinking Allie, during my treatment, was I am so lucky that I have access to this kind of quality care, because so many people don't.
They don't have access to screening.
They perhaps don't have the information or education to know how often when they need to get mammograms.
And if they do, they don't have insurance or, you know, they don't have enough for the copay, or they don't live in a place where the best and the brightest and the most you know top drawer technology exists.
And the whole time I was thinking, I'm so lucky and I felt so bad for people who don't have access.
And it's just criminal to me that, when it comes to health care in this country, it's really a caste system.
And your health care should not be dependent on your zip code.
So I guess for me, I feel grateful.
And also I had the experience of dealing with my husband and my sister's situations when they were diagnosed it was it was.
It was a much tougher situation.
So with early detection i i have been feeling very fortunate and you know i'm on aromatase inhibitors which i need to take more regularly.
To be honest with you, don't tell my doctor, but they know uh, you know they have side effects.
I mean, i'm already the sahara alley at this point because i'm menopause is so in my rearview mirror, But I have, like my skin is super dry.
My joints, as I mentioned, really hurt.
And I'm creaky.
And these aromatase inhibitors, which basically suppress any tiny morsel of estrogen that might still be surging around your body and just like kills it.
So I love estrogen.
Estrogen is my favorite hormone.
And I miss my estrogen.
I was on the patch for quite a while.
Um, and I love, I love the patch.
Uh, and I had to stop using it once I was diagnosed.
So I guess, I guess long story short, I don't think it doesn't weigh on my mind.
Um, I had to get another breast biopsy with after my last mammogram and that was like very stressful.
But I think when you get to be older, you're sort of your breast tissue and sort of characteristics in your breast kind of change, and they, they realized it was, it wasn't anything to worry about.
But you know i i i'm, i'm sort of a cancer clearinghouse for so many people, just because i have learned so much and i have access to a lot of scientists and through you know, i was one of the founders of stand up to cancer and So I am very, very plugged in.
And I think it's really sweet, Allie.
I think because of what happened with Jay and the fact that I did things like a colonoscopy on the Today Show and I have continued with my advocacy work for not only colon cancer.
Did you see my Sydney Sweeney thing?
Oh, yeah.
The jeans.
Of course.
I'm going to her movie tonight and I'm going to meet her.
What are you going to wear?
I thought I'd wear a silver number without a bra.
What do you think?
Hell yeah.
Let's go.
I'm kidding.
No, I support it.
Did you see what she wore?
Yeah.
It's a tribute to her.
I'm curious how you feel as a younger person.
I have mixed feelings.
I can't quite figure out Sidney Sweeney because, on the one hand, you know I was thinking about this today as I was in the shower where I do my post deep thinking and You know, is it the ultimate feminist act to use your sexuality and exploit it?
Or is it kind of everything that, as a more, as an older person, an older feminist, I keep talking about being older and I'm not hung up on it?
So I don't want you all listening to think I am.
But I'm just saying generationally, you know, I'm in a different place.
And it feels wrong to me on so many levels.
Uh, and I'm, how do you feel like when Sydney Sweeney goes to a power of women event in LA?
And basically I thought that would be a funny Halloween costume, by the way, if somebody could get like fake boobs and wear like a silver dress.
Oh, I'm sure people did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But anyway, what do you, what do you think about it?
I think and this is I've not thought a whole lot about this, but so this is my off the cuff thinking is that her body, her choice, that she should be able to.
Obviously, there are certain events that are going to have dress codes.
Sure.
If you're going to a wedding, that's black tie adhere to the dress code.
But generally speaking, I say she should get to wear what she wants.
And I think the conversation is is maybe less about what she's wearing and it's more everyone's reaction to it.
Right.
Like why do we get to decide what she should do with her body?
Right.
If it's making us uncomfortable, that's an us problem, not a her problem.
Yeah.
That's my immediate thought.
Right.
Well, I might be wrong.
No, no, no.
But I think probably that is one way of looking at it.
Right.
But, you know, and I, I guess I'm a little prudish too.
Um, like these see-through dresses and, um, You know, I sound like I'm suddenly like, what is it?
What's that show, reality show, Going Amish or something?
Oh, haven't seen it.
Anyway, so I just, I'm torn about it.
Yeah.
And I have to interrogate my own feelings, my own cultural conditioning about how I received that.
Because part of me was like, really?
At a Power of Women thing?
And that's all anybody was talking about.
Sidney Sweeney's breasts.
And I don't know.
I don't know how I feel about it.
But I'm going to be interested in meeting her and seeing what I think of her.
Not that we're going to have any long conversation or anything.
But the character she plays is this badass Christy, this boxer, right?
Fighter?
I don't know what kind of fighter she is.
I don't know.
But yeah, it'll be interesting.
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I was invited to this A-Rod documentary tonight too.
And I was interviewed for that because I had kind of a semi probably fake friendship, but it was a little bit of a friendship with A-Rod back in the day.
And they interviewed me.
At what point in his career?
It was when he was at the Yankees and I was anchoring the evening news on CBS.
And I can tell you the story.
I think it's going to be on HBO Max this Thursday.
I haven't seen it yet.
But at one point he became, what can I say, Ali?
He became a little fascinated with me.
Oh.
Not romantically.
Say more.
Not romantically.
Just sort of in a very strange thing.
Like I was at a Yankees game and he saw me in the crowd and he had his like security guy bring up two signed bats and all these signed baseballs to where I was sitting and And it was so weird.
I felt like, oh, am I going close in the natural suddenly?
Did you ever see that movie?
Okay, don't worry.
Anyway, and then, and I always thought that was kind of weird, but sort of funny.
And then he was always trying to get me to go on a double date with him and his wife.
And at the time I was dating this guy who was much younger than I was.
This was this, I don't know what I was thinking.
He's a very sweet guy.
But anyway, he called me and he said, I don't know whether I should leave the Yankees.
And I'm like, what?
Why are you asking me this?
I'm like, baseball, that's the thing with the bases, right?
I'm kidding.
But I was sort of like, it was just weird.
What did you tell him?
What does your heart say?
I mean, I don't know what to say to A-Rod.
But anyway.
So I'm in this movie telling these stories and i did a 60 minutes profile on him too.
But he's a very interesting contradiction because he's like the ultimate macho man, but he's deeply, i think deeply insecure and unsure of himself and uh, i don't, i think his dad left his mom when he was a little boy and um anyway i i, i was going to go to that, but i decided i was interested in the sydney sweeney movie.
Tough calls to make, I hate when I have, you know, multiple Hollywood events and I have to decide which one to go to, but that's what keeps me up at night.
You are so and this is my impression, so correct me if I'm wrong but so unafraid to share stories like that and like I would be so scared that someone who knows A-Rod is going to hear that and be like Katie Couric said that he's a contradictory man, that he's insecure, like I'm so nervous right now.
Really, you don't have that fear at all.
Well, I already said it in the movie and I don't say it in a mean way, just in my own sort of observational experience way.
You know, not really.
I mean, I also feel like there's so much stuff out there now that you know, I think back in the day when media was so different and there were just fewer outlets and everything kind of became exaggerated and made headlines, and then it was covered in other publications or other shows.
Now there's just so much out there.
And I also think, because I'm not on television every day, and at the time I did it, I think morning shows were such cultural touchstones.
I think they're still relevant, but a little less so than they used to be, just because there's so much media out there.
I think I'd be more careful.
But I also think you know, because of that I'm just more comfortable speaking my mind and giving my opinion if it comes up.
And, you know, I think the older you get... There I go again.
The older you get, the less kind of you care.
And my governor has become a lot less kind of um restrictive.
I I, I don't have a very good seven second delay anymore, just like, which is sort of nice and freeing, and I kind of feel like I've earned the right to to give my perspective on certain things.
Well, and that's what's fun, you know, when it comes to following you and consuming the media you're putting out there is, you're not, you're not impartial.
I mean, most people know exactly where you stand on a lot of issues.
You're not trying to please both sides or be in the middle, which I appreciate.
Well, I think it's really hard to do that in this day and age.
I think a lot of people miss, I like your shoes.
Thank you.
Those are cool.
Their New Balance 327.
Her New Balance thing has like leopards on it.
Your daughter probably loves those.
Oh, yeah, she loves it.
Loves a cheetah print, a leopard print.
Yeah, I don't know the difference, but she probably does.
But, you know, I feel very strongly about certain things.
I feel very strongly about reproductive rights.
I think they are so intrinsically linked to equality for women.
And we've seen so many of those rights taken away.
I really believe deeply in LGBTQ rights and I did a whole documentary on called gender revolution, talking about transgender people.
And I think they have been demonized and weaponized and it's heartbreaking to me.
I mean and I think misrepresented I think the disinformation that's out there about kids and you know, puberty and puberty blockers and hormone therapy.
It's just.
I think there's a lot of false information out there.
But I care deeply about that.
I care about gun violence and reducing gun violence.
And I care about democracy and institutions and norms.
I care about, listen, I think there was an immigration crisis.
But as I pointed out in the comments section, oh, there you are again.
For somebody, God, what feed was this?
You know, there was comprehensive immigration reform that had been worked on in a bipartisan way for months.
That came up in 2024.
But Donald Trump discouraged any Republicans from voting on it because he wanted to continue to use it as a campaign issue.
So, you know, I feel like I want people to know the truth.
Last night, when Nora O'Donnell interviewed him, he said ICE agents weren't being brutal enough, or something along those lines.
And I just feel like... I don't know.
I just feel like when I see injustice and I feel like at this point in my life I have to call it out.
And...
I think most people who follow me agree with me.
I think those who don't, I try to have conversations that aren't too confrontational.
I still try to listen to what other people have to say, but I think the problem is we're all in very specific media bubbles and our algorithm is feeding us stuff that is affirmation instead of information.
You know I understand.
If you're listening to Fox News 24-7 or Newsmax or One American News or all those super right-wing things or right-wing podcasts, you start to agree with what you're hearing.
And you think that a lot of that stuff is factual when it's just not.
And so, yeah, I am...
I am less impartial than I once was.
But I think desperate times call for desperate measures.
And I think it's not like covering George Herbert Walker Bush or George W. Bush or Mitt Romney.
People who, I think, respected the rule of law, things like due process And the 22nd Amendment, all these important.
The First Amendment the press.
I mean what they're doing to the press at the Pentagon, as a former Pentagon reporter Ali, is infuriating.
Kicking them out of the building because they won't sign a pledge that makes them get approval for their reports.
I mean, that is insanity to me.
Opposite of freedom of the press.
Yes.
Yes.
And now they're limiting movement for White House reporters.
They're berating people for asking questions.
Caitlin Collins, God bless her, what she has to put up with all the time.
It's just gone too far.
And if I didn't speak out and my grandson, little Jay, didn't know that his go-go, my grandmother name, didn't speak out against this stuff, I would be so mortified, more mortified than if people came back and said oh, she's such a bitch in person.
I feel like I have a responsibility to take a stand on certain issues.
And if people listening don't agree with me, I'd love to have a conversation with them and talk to them about it and understand where they're coming from.
Because I also think you know Bryan Stevenson, who's my role model and My hero.
He started the Equal Justice Initiative.
He is a civil rights lawyer in Montgomery, Alabama.
He wrote Just Mercy.
He talks about the need to be proximate.
And I think he's talking about physically proximate, but also kind of emotionally proximate.
And we just don't, first of all, we don't, we're so in our, like, here I am on the Upper East Side.
Do I really witness and see people who are struggling?
Not enough because I am not with people like that enough.
And so it's not only being impervious to people's pain because you don't see it, but it's also about not being around people who may disagree with you politically.
And that could be in a virtual sense or in a physical sense.
And so I wish we could get to the point where we could all talk about these things, because I do think most people are good.
I really do.
I think most people are good and fair and want other people to have opportunities.
And I understand that sometimes the pendulum swings too far one way or another.
You know, I do think we have much more in common than the current environment would have us believe.
And I don't know why I'm getting on my soapbox and talking about this stuff to you.
I think I need to talk.
People are going to come meet you in the comments and we're going to have a productive dialogue and it's going to be lovely.
And we're going to prove that we can get out of our echo chambers and have real conversations.
Wouldn't that be great?
I, I, I believe that it can happen.
I try to believe that it can happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So tell me a little more about, tell me about you, Allie.
So, um, have you been enjoying this podcast and who, who do you have on your show?
Like what kind of people?
Yeah, I have the best job in the world.
It's so fun.
I get to talk to people that I think are interesting, whether it's Sydney McLaughlin Leveroni, the uh many time world record holder, Olympic medalist, world championship medalist,
And then you did that this weekend, by the way.
Yeah.
Now I'm here with you.
Like, it's just such a fun.
And then I interview.
You know, I've interviewed the winners of the New York city marathon and I've interviewed the final finisher of the New York city marathon.
So I bet there, I bet like I, I'm so glad you're covering that, because that's just that's a whole microcosm of humanity.
Oh, it's the best in one city on one day.
And the stories of the people running it must be so fascinating.
I was reading that it was a real photo finish this year.
Yeah, it was 0.03 seconds.
It was the closest finish ever at the New York City Marathon.
Because the guy raised his arms and he didn't realize somebody was right nipping at his heels.
Yeah, it was crazy.
And it was, I mean, it was a perfect day yesterday.
And there were.
You know the reason that I do this is because at any given race on any given day yesterday, there were 59000 finishers at the New York city marathon, largest marathon ever.
Wow.
And there was a 90 year old who ran it.
I saw.
And that's 59,000 reasons to run that race.
59,000 different paths to the start line and to the finish.
And I'm just, I'm super fascinated by those.
So it's really fun.
I am sure you get this all the time, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
And maybe less so now that we're into season four.
But how often are you getting asked if you watch the morning show?
I used to get asked that a lot.
And it was fun a little too close to home with the Matt Lauer stuff at the beginning, which was upsetting disappointing, heartbreaking and really frustrating that all of that was happening unbeknownst to me.
Uh, and you know um a lot of people, I think.
Think that Jennifer Aniston is based on me, but she has said repeatedly it's Diane Sawyer.
So I don't know.
I think it may be as a composite.
Um, and I hadn't been on the today show since 2006.
Right.
So I, I do watch it and I have a confession to make.
Oh, I'm losing interest.
Oh yeah.
Season four is off the rails.
Season one was very compelling.
Yeah.
Season two was like, eh, then a lot.
I mean it's also hard to watch when they're doing things like stories about reading the Capitol and COVID.
Like, I'm like, I don't want to watch that right now.
I want an escape from that.
And I know that they have to do it because it's that type of.
Yeah.
And I mean, yeah.
I actually.
So I've had the opposite feeling because, as somebody who covers the news, and I've really appreciated how they have responded to the news
Like there was a storyline about AI.
Uh, so you're still watching.
I, I I haven't watched for a couple of weeks and which shows like I haven't watched for a couple of weeks and will I watch it?
I watched the JFK junior documentary last night cause I was interested in that and I knew him a little bit and had a mad crush on him, like everyone else.
But anyway, I appreciate like that.
They, that are, they're taking sort of issues like the podcaster, sort of the manosphere.
Um, it all feels unrealistic in a way because it's not being written by journalists who really kind of understand it.
Everything is kind of over overly dramatic and, you know, but it's an entertaining show.
So I get it.
But I did think there was an episode where the black anchor who'd been an athlete, Chris.
Yes.
Oh, so you're, you're very caught up.
Okay.
I thought that was really moving when she talked about performance enhancing drugs and the circumstances, because I don't know.
I I, I was very moved by that scene when she told her story, and So the response from the running community to that has been the opposite.
Oh really?
Has been like, no doping is black or white.
You did it.
You knew you did it.
You should lose those medals and there's not sympathy.
So it's really interesting.
Oh, that is within running or athletics or, you know, specific to sports.
I think a lot of people are the opposite.
That is interesting.
I think hadn't she lost, her child.
Yeah.
And it is very sad.
I think that's why that's the story, because they want you to feel conflicted and and look at something that that should be black and white, but is it?
And so yeah, I don't, I don't, I guess for me, because of um the circumstances and because I've done a fair amount of reporting on maternal mortality and subpar care, um that black women get.
I think it resonated with me for that reason in a way, but that is, that's fascinating.
Yeah.
Okay.
Knowing that we will wrap up soon.
I, I can't not talk about some today show stuff for so many people.
That was when we started to know and fall in love with Katie Couric.
And I think you will forever be, I know you will forever be Katie Couric from the Today Show.
You've done so many other things.
Yeah, I think because I did it for 15 years.
And, as I said, it was before sort of the death of monoculture, if you will, where there were fewer options to get your news, information and your morning companionship, I guess.
Yes, you were in our living rooms.
So not just specific to the Today Show, but just looking at your career, proudest moments.
What makes the highlight real?
A few.
9-11.
Because it was the hardest, hardest day.
And I was able to keep my composure.
How?
I felt so much responsibility to the audience.
And that's why it was so important for me to really just deliver any new information that was coming in.
So I would say 9-11 and the days after.
I think getting a colonoscopy because it actually saved lives.
Screen queen.
I think maybe some of the school shootings I've covered, whether it was Sandy Hook or Columbine.
I think up there is the Sarah Palin interview because I think it was very revelatory and exposed her as someone who just was out of her depth and wasn't ready to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Yeah, I think those would be probably the highlight reel.
Interview you wish you could redo.
I'm trying to think if there's something.
I mean, I'm the kind of person that after every interview I'm like wait, I should have asked them that.
I should have followed up with that.
A redo.
I can't think of one.
Can I get back to you?
Yeah.
I like that something doesn't immediately come to mind.
That's good.
That's good.
Interview that you had the least amount of prep time for.
Did you ever feel that you were just totally thrown to the wolves?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, and I still have nightmares like that.
I'm not ready for an interview or a test.
You know those anxiety dreams.
But a lot of times it's like I'm late to the Today Show or I'm not prepared to do an interview.
And two times when it was really, really stressful, one was Virginia Tech, the shooting there.
I landed and had no support, no producer, no teleprompter, no nothing.
And That was really scary.
And I had to do the evening news from from Blacksburg, Virginia.
Then it was when George Herbert Walker Bush showed up.
I don't know if you watch this.
You probably were too little.
He came.
I was getting a tour of the White House from Barbara Bush and President Bush walked in and I had no expectation he was going to be there.
So I interviewed him for like 23 minutes on Iran-Contra and all this other stuff.
My executive producer was in my ear helping me.
But it was, I had to really fly by the seat of my pants.
That's in the book, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember that.
Hardest interview?
Or most challenging?
Gosh.
I would say like I would interview a lot of people who had suffered loss and who had been involved in some kind of tragedy.
And I think... those are always really hard to be sympathetic and yet to try to solicit information.
Those are always really hard and I've done so many of those.
I interviewed David Duke and I wrote about that in the book too, and that was.
That was a hard interview because I really had to pin him down and I was channeling my inner Tim Russert by using his quotes against him.
That was really hard. gosh, I haven't thought about all these interviews.
Sorry, I'm bringing up trauma.
No, no, no, no.
It's just that my quote unquote body of work is so extensive and I've done so many interviews.
Like, it's sometimes hard for me to pull things up at a moment's notice, but those are some of the things that come to mind.
What is your advice for someone who is fun and bubbly, but also wants to be taken seriously?
I mean, it's in the work.
I think we do still try to typecast people.
You know, and somehow if you're outgoing and you like people and you talk, tell them they need a different bra with their dress in the dressing room that somehow that you lack depth or that you're not serious or you're not smart.
And I think that is so limiting, both for the person and for the people who are labeling them as such.
So I think it's it's.
I would say don't give up that personality, that thing that draws people to you, that you're drawn to people for.
Um, but it's all about the work.
Like, if you're producing good work, if you're doing good interviews, if you're, you know, if you're producing thing, stuff that's meaningful and important and helps people understand something, and then I don't think you have to give up either side of who you are.
You have to embrace both of them.
But it really hard.
And in my career it was hard because, you know, sometimes people are like oh, she was on the Today Show.
And I'm like I would challenge them to go back and look at my work on the Today Show and some of the really important interviews I did with presidents and prime ministers and dictators and say you know,
Just because you see me as a one-dimensional person, it doesn't discount all the important work I've done.
And I always say, as Walt Whitman says, we contain multitudes, Allie.
And I think the more we're willing to embrace it ourselves and have other people embrace it, the better off we will be.
Because who wants the world to be inhabited by a bunch of one-dimensional people?
No, thank you.
And that was obviously a personal question.
I wanted that pep talk, so thank you.
Yeah well, you know, you're curious, you're smart, you're prepared, which is really important when you're doing an interview.
She just gestured to my notebook filled with notes.
Yeah, no, obviously you put the time in, which I'm really appreciative of.
But you can have fun.
Life is fun.
Yeah.
And you need to enjoy it and find joy and happiness.
And you know the lighter side of things, but that doesn't mean you're not capable of doing the serious work which clearly you are.
Yes, is there a today show, former anchor group chat group text.
Well, it got pretty pretty, pretty sticky uh, with the matt stuff.
So there was one.
There really wasn't one, but we had, i think, a lot of affection towards each other and you know i still talk to al occasionally, but you know, for you know, there is a season for everything.
And, you know, I look back, I'm very fond of everyone with whom I worked.
Matt and I don't have a relationship anymore, which is sad.
Bryant Gumbel and I don't really, I mean, we weren't really that compatible as people.
Even though I have a ton of respect for his talent and ability and intelligence.
We were very different um, but so i guess the short answer is no hard pass.
All right, can i put you through our sprint to the finish round, rapid fire questions.
Okay, i used to pretend to be you at parties.
If you were to pretend to be someone at a party tonight, who would it be?
Who's the alter ego that might come out?
Oh god, do people know the answers to these questions?
This is the first time i've ever asked this, but this is okay.
This is just specific to katie.
The rest are generic questions.
Uh, Hillary Clinton, because she's so smart.
I saw her yesterday.
Oh, you did?
Chelsea ran and Hillary and Bill were at the finish.
Oh, that's so great.
Chelsea ran.
That's impressive.
Yeah.
This was her third year in a row running.
Wow.
She might have run a personal best.
She's very smart.
Wow.
Good for her.
I met her daughter, Charlotte, and she was so cute.
She had glasses.
I saw her at the ballet.
Oh, yeah.
Love this.
See, we're all hanging in the same space as you and the Clintons and me somehow.
I'm in there.
Last meal on earth.
What would it be?
Oh, New York strip, medium rare, baked potato with everything.
Maybe cream spinach just because I have to have some vegetables in there.
And, oh, I don't know.
Maybe ice cream or cheese.
I don't know.
I love food.
I love that answer.
And steak cooked, medium rare.
Good answer.
Anything else is incorrect.
Favorite TV show?
Now or ever?
Ooh, ever.
Favorite TV show.
Oh, well, can I say now?
Sure.
I am obsessed.
Love, love, love the pit.
Oh, I haven't started it.
I haven't gotten into it yet.
It is so good.
But people, I mean, if you're going through medical stuff, you may not love it.
It is so well done.
And I, I'm in love with Noah Wiley again.
And it just I, just the humanity, and I have so much respect for doctors just because of everything I've been through in my life with people I love.
So I, I absolutely love the pit.
It's hard to watch.
I watch a lot of it with my eyes closed.
Do you have a favorite movie?
A favorite movie?
I do like the Shawshank Redemption.
Classic answer.
What is the most used emoji on your phone?
Oh, either the one with the, like, yikes.
The cringe face?
The cringe face, the teeth.
The ones with the eyes that are like, what?
Swirls?
Yeah.
Or the or the eyes like bugging out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I use that one or or the laughing one.
But I know that's that's kind of gotten passe.
Yeah.
Apparently we're not supposed to do that anymore.
But I know I still use it.
I'm great.
I don't care.
Do you have any tattoos?
What is 67 mean, by the way?
Six, seven.
What is six, seven?
It's someone's height, right?
It's a basketball player's height, but it really just kind of means nothing.
It means like meh.
Like sick.
That's, I don't know how to use it.
I think the kids just say it, but now that we're all asking what it is, they don't want to say it.
They don't want to say it anymore.
Okay.
So it's working.
So meanwhile, I'm like, what is 67?
Uh, do you have any tattoos?
No, I am not a tattoo person.
My daughters both have tattoos here.
My daughter has, it's very erudite, has a Joan Didion quote.
Oh, that's really cool.
She's really cool.
Yeah, she is cool.
My other one has a uh Like, I think, her wedding date and a little sand dollar, but I think they're fading.
That's cute.
What reality show would you go on if you had to be on a reality show?
Well, okay.
I don't really like reality shows.
I'm coming dancing with the stars, dancing with the stars.
Have they ever asked you?
They have asked me.
Okay.
Well then why have you said no?
Uh, I don't know.
Cause I, I think I couldn't remember the routines and I would, it's so trendy right now.
I know.
I know.
I know it is.
Oh my gosh.
Do it next season.
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm too creaky, but go on.
So I couldn't convince you to run a marathon.
Haven't convinced you to go on dancing with the stars.
What is the most visited website in your browser?
I guess just Google.
Yeah.
Is that, is that boring?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Biggest pet peeve.
Uh, people who make a lot of noise when they chew their food.
Common one.
What is your favorite, Pasta shape.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, that's why I went to journalism school.
I'll have to say linguine.
Classic.
Or I like that bucatini.
Bucatini is really good.
Yeah, I like bucatini too.
What's your go-to karaoke song?
Crazy by Patsy Cline.
Or Band of Gold by Frida Payne.
Ooh, nice.
My daughter has a beautiful voice.
I can't really sing.
And Band of Gold is hard to sing.
It's too high for me.
All right, we're fresh off Halloween.
What was your all-time favorite and least favorite Today Show Halloween costume?
Okay, my favorite was probably Peter Pan, because I got to fly across the plaza and that was fun and I hit some poor guy in the head with my boot.
And my least favorite, Donald Trump.
Good answer.
Have you interviewed him?
Not recently.
What would your first question be?
What has happened to you?
I love that.
And then he would say that you're a bad journalist.
Oh, he's already called me a has-been.
He has.
Do you care when you see stuff like that?
I mean, not really.
Not really.
I'm a member of a not very exclusive club.
I don't really care.
Do you know what your love language is?
I don't know.
It's like there's words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, quality time and physical touch.
Maybe I like to cook for people.
Acts of service.
Yeah.
I think I'm an act. service person.
Okay, the last thing.
I always ask everyone on the show and I know that you are not jazzed about running, but I always ask to give everyone listening a reason to go for a run.
Oh, well, first of all, when you're running, you can't be on your phone.
Oh, yeah, I like that.
And I think being on your phone is completely effing up our brains, our emotions and our lives.
I'm interviewing Scott Galloway this afternoon about his book on boys and men, which should be really interesting.
So I think, and and because nothing is as healing and restorative as nature and when you run, I even think it's kind of nice to to pay attention to things you're seeing and to not even listen to anything and to actually, if you're in the park, at least kind of look around and really enjoy the view.
Yeah, there's nothing better.
This has been so wonderful.
I have loved chatting with you.
Oh, it's been so fun to meet you and please stay in touch.
And if I can be helpful in any way and hang in there.
I know this is a really, really difficult, but we need you Allie, and your little Annie needs you and your mom and dad, and I think we should also mention that people really should get genetic testing and not to be afraid of it.
And all it does.
It helps you figure out how you can be monitored and how you can be tested for things.
Because the earlier you get things, the better off you are.
And I think everyone needs to get genetic testing.
And it's not hard.
It's not that expensive, I don't think, anymore.
I think they just do swaps in the inside of your mouth.
And definitely people need to know if they have any kind of the known genes that put you at a higher risk.
So I think, I hope you'll talk to your listeners about that more.
And I'm sure you already do.
Yep.
Thank you so much for doing this.
If A-Rod reaches out and he doesn't like the part where you said you think he's insecure, I'm just going to forward that to your team.
Okay.
Don't you worry.
It's all good.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So nice to meet you.
You as well.
Thank you so much for being here for this episode of the Allie on the Run show with my guest, Katie Couric.
Like I said, went in all kinds of directions I did not expect.
Thank you, of course, to Katie, to Alyssa, to her entire team, for making this happen, for welcoming us to her home, where we recorded this, and for being so generous with all of your time.
I really appreciate it so much.
And this was really exciting for me.
Thank you, of course, to Lagoon for supporting this episode.
Remember, their Black Friday sale is going on now.
It's nice and early, so get that out of the way.
Do your shopping.
Check it off your list. lagoon sleep.com.
We'll get you access to all of those discounts I mentioned earlier.
No code needed.
I am Allie on the run one on Instagram.
My newsletter is Allie on the run.substack.com.
And as always, I appreciate having you here.
I love you so very much.
And one final thank you, Christine Burke.
Uh, you know, Christine Mary, my entire team of friends and supporters.
Uh, but Christine Burke was the one who ultimately helped make this conversation happen.
Her and Mary have been in my corner wanting this to happen for a long time.
And, Christine was the one that sent the email that stuck and helped facilitate this.
And to get to do this on the Monday after the New York City Marathon was really awesome for me, as if I wasn't already riding such a high.
We got to continue it well into Monday.
And I think I mentioned this in the New York City Marathon recap episode.
But as soon as we finished recording, Mary Wittenberg was waiting by my car and had flowers for me and snacks for my drive home.
And I just, yeah.
I know I say this all the time, but I feel loved and supported and my best advice in this life.
I don't tend to give much advice, but choose your friends wisely and keep them close when you find the good ones.
Keep them close.
So thank you for being here.
You are all my best running friends.
I appreciate you.
I love you as always.
You've got this.
You are doing great.
And thank you for joining me on the run.
