I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time, taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Welcome to a CNN special event.
Juneteenth, celebrating freedom and legacy.
I'm Victor Blackwell. Behind me is the beautiful national museum of African-American history and culture in Washington, D.C.
This is the perfect setting for our celebration of Juneteenth.
Because like the museum, Juneteenth commemorates the end of slavery here in the United States.
It's also a celebration of black culture and history.
It tells our story of struggle, genius, and beauty.
Tonight we will bring you an exceptional lineup of iconic black musical artists.
You will hear their views on this holiday and its importance.
Our night of inspiring moments and entertainment from some of the best to ever do it starts now.
John Legend is a music superstar.
He's earned Emmys, Grammys, and Oscar and Atonie.
He's also an activist and a philanthropist focusing on criminal justice reform.
Did I read this right? You have a Juneteenth baby.
Yes, Ren. Yeah, he was born on Juneteenth last year, so he is one today.
All right, happy birthday to Ren.
Aside from planning birthday parties, how do you make space for this holiday in your family and celebrate that too?
Well, this is a festive day, I think, for all black Americans.
And for anybody who believes that America is supposed to be the land of the free, we had that promise.
Our founders wrote that as the ideal early on, but we weren't living up to that ideal for such a long time.
And I think part of the story of America is hopefully the continued progress toward meeting that ideal where we truly are the land of the free and the home of the brave.
And I don't think we've accomplished that yet.
It's something we have to continue to work on and be vigilant about.
How has becoming a father shaped your view of the world and the work that we have to do?
Well, I think a lot about all of the love and the resources and investment that we put into our kids.
And we know how fortunate we are to be able to afford all the things that we want to be able to do to make sure our kids have a great childhood and are very well prepared for the future.
Then I realize that a lot of parents don't have those resources.
And I think about politics and about government and about philanthropy as a way of filling in those gaps where parents don't have the resources themselves to do all the things that they need to do.
But hopefully we as a society can come together to make sure that all children have opportunity, have the investment and the resources that they need to flourish in this life.
John, you could sing, release music, and then go home.
Yeah. And not do the work.
What compels you to engage and do the social justice work?
Well, part of it is I've always been inspired by the tradition of particularly black artists over the years realizing that when we have this opportunity, when we have this platform, we want to use it to stand up for what's right, fight for justice, support activists and organizers who are out there doing really important work to secure freedom for all citizens.
I come from a tradition of that, I believe, when I think about my mentors and my heroes like Harry Belafonte and others, they invested in the civil rights movement.
They spent their money, they spent their social capital and they used their platform to try to make the world better.
And I always thought that was what an artist was supposed to do.
So I feel like this is part of my calling as an artist.
Yeah. And my new work focuses on ending mass incarceration, reducing recidivism through the free America campaign.
Are you seeing progress there?
Yeah, we wanted to shine a light on this issue of mass incarceration in America.
We started about 10 years ago and one of the seminal moments for our organization and for me speaking out about this issue was standing on the stage at the Oscars saying we are the most incarcerated country in the world and we need to do something about it.
And if we want to think about the legacy of Dr.
King and imagine what he might be working on now, I think this is one of the issues he would care about.
And so we set about actually doing the work to try to make a difference in ending mass incarceration.
And through our efforts and the efforts of a bunch of other activists and organizers, we've actually reduced incarceration pretty significantly in the country all around the country.
Local, state, federal, incarceration has gone down.
You talk about how this issue has impacted your own life and your own family.
We talk about it on stage.
Yeah, we talk about it. I talk about it on stage because I want people to know that I don't just come to these issues as an observer, as somebody from a 10,000 foot level.
In my own family, we've had plenty of people who've been caught up in the system, people who've been incarcerated.
We've dealt with my mom being incarcerated for a time when she was going through addiction issues.
And so knowing that it's personal to us and to our family, it makes it more real when I get involved in these policy discussions.
And I'm not just coming at it from a distance.
I'm coming at it with real first hand knowledge.
In order to talk about the mass incarceration in the US, we also need to talk about the school to prison pipeline.
Yeah. And under-resourced, underfunded, under-supported schools, you started the Show Me campaign that's been more than 15 years now.
Yeah. And we talk a lot about, especially now, when we're thinking about mass incarceration, when we think about all the money, all the resources that go into locking people up and inflicting punishment on them, it costs us because not only does it cost us that money, it means we're not spending that money on something else.
And so I always try to illustrate how important it is for us to invest in our communities, invest the resources in education, in health care, in making sure our kids are fed, all those things that will help them grow up and to be contributing citizens, flourishing citizens in this country, and make sure they don't go down the wrong path.
Let's invest in them early on so they don't go down the wrong path and we don't have to clean up our mess later on with incarceration and all those other punishment methods.
We're a few months out from the national election and I've spoken with far too many people and because of the work I do, most of them people of color.
And they're just not enthused by either the major candidates.
And they don't believe they're spoken to and their issues are being taken up.
What do you say to those people who just might sit it out?
Well, first of all, I want people to realize that elections are not just for president, they're not just national elections.
There's so much that is decided in elections and they're local.
When you are voting for your school board, when you're voting for your mayor, when you're voting for your representative, both state and national, when you're voting for your governor, when you're voting for your district attorney, all these people have a role in your life and you may not be enthused about the top of the ticket.
But all of these folks that are on the ticket, up and down the ticket are going to affect the way your life is lived.
They're going to affect your community.
They're going to affect so many things.
And so realize that you have the power to affect some outcomes that are going to be really felt by you and your neighbors.
And so don't sit it out. It's important that you get involved.
You sing in the glory and this is the reason I brought these notes.
You sing, now the war is not over, victory is not won.
And we'll fight to the finish, then when it's all done, we'll cry.
Glory. What does the finish look like?
Well, we'll probably never get there.
That's the thing. And I think part of what the song is, it's aspirational.
It's looking toward a goal, but knowing that you may never actually reach it.
But realizing that the struggle is worth the struggle.
And the finish looks like freedom for everybody.
Equality for everybody, belonging for everybody, flourishing for everybody, well-being for everybody, and that's what we're working toward.
And we'll probably never get there, but I think it's worth the struggle.
I spoke with the legendary Motown artist Smoky Robinson about the day MLK came to Motown and a lot more.
Let's start with Junete.
It's only the fourth year that it's designated as a federal holiday.
Yes. But what does the designation mean that this is now a holiday for the country?
I think that it means progress, man.
It means that we progress to the point where everyone is willing to acknowledge the fact that we do have black people and that they're significant.
And I think it's progress.
Do you think it's just for black people?
No. That's what I said. I think it's progress.
I think it's for everybody.
Everybody should acknowledge it, and everyone should celebrate it.
I almost started that question as, is it an African-American holiday?
But I read somewhere that you don't prefer to be referred to as African-American, that you are a black American or American.
Yes, why? Okay, man. I wrote a poem, and it's called Being a Black American.
Now, in my life, in my career, I've been all over the world.
I have never even been to Africa.
Okay. When they were all from me, dates and stuff in Africa were during apartheid, and I wasn't going to go during apartheid and do that.
There's a passage in the poem that I wrote.
And it says, all the wonderful black Americans who served in all the wars, who served in the armed forces and gave their lives in all the wars, they didn't do that for Timbuk, to a Cape Town, a Kenya.
They'd have a Mississippi and Alabama and Georgia and Louisiana and Texas and Virginia.
Did I continue? And if you're not as dead, if you don't claim that, do you play a right to the hand of the white supremacist and the crookers, Klan, who claim that they own this land?
Now, that's why, because we have cultivated it.
We've built, we've raised the kids.
We've done everything that you could possibly do to contribute to a country.
Okay. So now, for me to come along and say, okay, I'm an African American, that's kind of denouncing my American citizens.
She was kind of now, so in the fact that I'm an American.
I'm proud to be an American American.
Like I said, I've been all over.
This is the greatest country in the world to me.
So I'm proud of that fact.
And I want to be acknowledged as an American.
What am I proudest achievement, or the proudest things in my life, is Motown, man.
And as the fact that when we first started Motown, we were fledgling.
We were just in Detroit and Ann Arbor and Flint, Michigan, okay.
And there are areas in Detroit.
I grew up in Detroit, I was born there.
There are areas in Detroit where as if you were black and you were in one of those areas, you better be working for somebody.
Or you better have someone you just says you work for Miss Sons, that's why you, in that neighborhood, if released caught you there.
You might get your butt whipped or be put out whatever it was, but there were areas in Detroit like that.
So we have been in business for maybe a year.
And we were getting letters from the white kids in those areas.
I regret the fact that we didn't think.
Because we were just young people making music, don't want it.
But we loved, you know. And I regret the fact that nobody thought to save those letters.
They would be invaluable at this point.
So Dr. Martin Luther King came from Motown, he said, I want to do my, I have a dream speech here with you guys.
Because you're doing with music, what I'm trying to do with legislation.
You know what I didn't know until I started preparing to talk to you.
Was that there was another imprint that was black for them, where there were the recordings of Langston Hughes and Elaine Brown and other speeches.
I'd never heard of that in the decades since that era.
Talk about the importance for not just you, but Barry Gordy and everyone at Motown to tell those stories and bring those voices to.
I think it was very important, man.
Because it enlightened people as to people who didn't know about black people or black culture or black creativity or black talents or things.
You mentioned Langston Hughes.
Fortunately, I grew from the hood in Detroit, man.
So the elementary school I went to, one of the first ports that we learned about was Langston Hughes.
So I think it's a great thing for people to know about all that, to know about the contributions that black people have made to this country.
And that puts a light on it.
Let me ask you about the dynasty of Motown.
You are one of the obviously most well-known artists at Motown, but then came Brandy and Neo and Erica Baidu.
And now there's City Girls and Quavo.
What do you think about some of the newer artists in the music you hear now?
I think we've got some wonderful new artists in music business.
See, I'm not one of those people who says, well, you know, the kids are so, then the music is negative and not, it's progress.
Every musical genre has its era, you know?
So we're in a new era now.
We're in an era where these young people, other people who are attracting the most attention, but it goes on and on and on and on.
And I think music is in good hands.
How long you've been touring?
Oh, man. I did my first really professional date at the Apollo Theater in 1958.
And I'm getting ready to go now and play the Apollo again.
They're going to shut the Apollo down for two or three years for renovation.
And I will always play at the Apollo Man.
So my group and I were going back to play at the Apollo because it's tradition.
The first time I ever walked into the Apollo in my life with America was that there was a mural on the lobby wall.
And everybody that I loved was up there.
My number one singing idol at that point was Jackie Wilson.
He's up there. Sam Cook, Rachel, Ella Fitzgerald, Louis Armstrong.
I mean, just all the black acts that you could, from way back when.
Ella Fitzgerald started at the Apollo.
She won the talent show at the Apollo.
That's how she got started.
So the Apollo is black tradition musically.
And I will always play it.
I don't care if they tear everything else on 123D down.
I hope they keep the Apollo.
Let me bring it back to where we started here and about progress.
What's next? What next in this country?
Do we as black Americans have to fight for, accomplish, achieve?
What do you think? Voting.
That's one of the most important things we can do.
And especially now. Especially now.
Okay. Get out and vote. Don't let anybody stop you.
There are a lot of states where we have people who are in power who are trying to prevent that.
Trying to prevent the black vote.
Because they know how powerful it is.
So my suggestion is, get out and vote.
Let's put some people in there that we want and that we trust.
Because I'm really screaming right now.
You. You. Artists like Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin.
And of course, Patty LeBelle.
They pushed the boundaries and broke the ceiling for black women artists.
Miss Patty, sitting here with you, I realized that I've had your music with me all my life.
I hope that's okay to say.
You better say it. Are you serious?
When I was a kid, my mom would play your albums on Saturdays.
And I remember that night bird album.
And having that with me.
Yes. Yes. So tell me, when you see the new artist, the younger artist out, what do you think?
I'm very happy for all of those girls because they're really doing their job well.
And I appreciate it. And I know all of them, you know, so they're all like my little girls I teach.
Because they always ask me questions about how it was back in the day.
A lot of young kids call me their auntie.
I have a lot of children that call me mother or mother.
Yes. So it's an honor to be called anything they decide, as long as you don't call me a bad name.
Yeah. Yeah. It's Pride Month.
And you embraced your LGBTQ fans before there was an acronym, right?
Before everybody reached out.
Why? What led you to do that?
I never know why my gay following are attracted to me.
Because always say I'm the original drag queen.
And I love my gay following.
I mean, I think they really made Patty Lapelle.
Yeah. When you look at how our country has changed, some things have not changed over the time you've been a performer.
What is the work that still needs to be done?
There's a whole lot that needs to be done.
People need to open their minds and realize when you see ugly and bad.
And you say that it's not ugly, it's not bad.
That just brings us back even more.
So this is Juneteenth. It's a new holiday nationally.
We're still trying to figure out how to celebrate this as a country.
Is there anything special that you do on Juneteenth?
I party. Yes. On Juneteenth, yes.
I mean, it's reflection.
We think about what we've been through.
And now how much better it is.
And the kids, some kids don't even know about Juneteenth.
And I want my grandkids to know that there was some stuff back in the day that wasn't so pleasant.
And now we can celebrate Juneteenth.
So I talk to them about everything.
And they're going to learn our history.
How much do you tell them?
Because it seems as if there's some things that maybe you don't want to talk about because they were difficult.
Do you tell your grandchildren those stories?
I have to. I mean, because they have to know what we did back in the day, what we've been through way back in the day.
Because if you don't tell them, they won't have a clue.
Do you have a very diverse audience?
Yes. What is it about your music?
What do you think it's about what you do on stage that brings so many people together?
I don't have a clue, but it brings joy to my heart.
Well, you bring joy to our hearts.
Thank you. Thank you, honey.
Thank you. I'll call you honey.
I'll take it. I'm at the slavery and freedom exhibit here at the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
Now, this exhibit traces the brutal history of slavery and the constant fight for freedom.
At the center of this exhibit is a small handheld copy of the Emancipation Proclamation Sign in 1863.
It was not enforced in Texas until June 19th, 1865.
That date is now known as June 15th.
Some black folks have celebrated for a century.
I have the honor of speaking with Miss Opholese.
She's known as the grandmother of Juneteenth for her tireless efforts to make this a federal holiday.
Happy Juneteenth? Hello.
How does that feel? This is the fourth year that it is a national holiday.
How does it feel? Well, I'm humble, but I really am.
Juneteenth is for everybody.
For not just a text thing and not just a black thing.
It's freedom for all of us.
When did the dream of making it a national holiday begin?
Well, I'm saying, if I walked the 1400 miles from Fort Worth to Washington, the fact that we've had Juneteenth over, I don't know how many years.
And there's a fourth of July, which freed the land.
And I felt like Juneteenth would free the people.
I also felt like a familiar lady in tennis shoes was walking.
Somebody would take notice.
Were you always certain that the holiday would come, that nationally it would be recognized?
No, but I felt like if you work, you get something, and enough people will notice.
And you got guard in the plan, it's got to help them come here with our water.
In 2021, it happened. Congress overwhelmingly voted to support it.
President Biden signed the Juneteenth National Independence Day Act, and handed that pen to you.
And what did that feel like?
Oh, I was humble. I didn't know what to think.
I was so proud. And happy I could have done the holy day.
It's interesting that you say that you've not done any more than any other person would do.
There are some people who watch this or look at the other icons of progress, freedom, civil rights, and say, what can I do?
With my little community, my little space, what do you tell them?
I tell them, hey, you have so much going for you, let it out.
Let somebody else know.
Share the things that will help us to be a better and stronger nation.
So when I get with people, they're not my age, they're always younger.
I suggest that maybe you little group of women at your church talk to them.
Or tell your husband some things that he can share with the men.
And on the job, if we would only realize that we are one people, we are Americans, not African Americans or Italian Americans, we are Americans, and we need to embrace that.
I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
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