This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.
New Year's resolution.
Own how you show up online.
It's easy with a domain and matching email from GoDaddy.
Now just 99 cents per month for new customers their first year.
Ring in 2026 with a domain and matching email at godaddy.com slash new year.
That's godaddy.com slash new year to own how you show up online.
Hi, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.
This week I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.
That talking about trauma isn't always great for people.
It's not always the best thing.
About a third of people who are traumatized as kids feel worse when they talk about it get very dysregulated.
Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro.
We were in the car like a rolling stone came on and he said there's a line in there about your mother.
And I said...
What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.
I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.
These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of Family Secrets.
Listen to Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
There's so many different ways that people pray.
For some people it's very spontaneous.
Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their body in a certain position or doing certain actions.
I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state of mind and of being that can allow you to express some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access.
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed.
Today's guest is one of my dearest friends of the last 20 years, but she's also one of the most talented musicians.
She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.
Janavi is a devotional singer, writer and artist whose voice has become a refuge for people searching for peace and spiritual grounding.
Through her performances, recordings and global workshops, Janavi has devoted her life to helping people experience the power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound.
Her work invites us to pause, breathe, and reconnect with our inner life.
And she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy.
If you're part of the Academy, this is my personal request.
Go and vote for her.
I'm so excited to welcome to On Purpose, my dear friend, Janavi Harrison.
Janavi, it's so wonderful to have you here.
I just got a massive confidence boost.
You, I mean, I just want to let people know.
So I've known you now for like 20 years.
And I met you through our temple and spiritual community in London, which is where we first met.
And we would have both been at college or something like that.
Yeah.
And I am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes I post these pictures of me on social media which are like how it started, how it's going.
And all of those, how it started, so many of them were with you.
So me and Janavi for everyone who doesn't know what we would do is, we would do events together where I would speak And Janavi would lead mantra meditation.
And we would like, that was like our duo.
Tag team.
Yeah, exactly.
And we'd travel all over England.
We did events in London.
We did events in Weymouth.
We did events.
Cambridge.
Cambridge.
We did events in maybe Oxford.
We did, we would do events and we've done this for years together.
And.
That's always what we did.
It was always our do.
And then, since I moved to LA, Janavi comes to my house every single year and we do an event where Radhi will organize this beautiful gathering of all of our friends and Janavi will lead a meditation, and people are always so moved and just it's pretty amazing.
Like thinking about being friends for 20 years and seeing our relationship has always been service-based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.
Yeah.
But at the same time, you lived with us during the pandemic.
I did.
For a few months, I think.
Surprisingly, I did.
That was really fun.
Yeah.
So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to sit with someone that I've known for 20 years on the show.
Yeah.
And I'm so excited that you've been nominated for a Grammy.
Thank you.
It's just such a monumental historical occasion for our whole tradition.
Yeah.
And to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual mantra, music to help people and et cetera.
How does it feel?
I mean... It's a huge honor.
And like you said, it feels like an honor not...
You know it's part of our training and I think that the spiritual tradition that I've grown up in, that you know you get an honor and it might have your name attached to it.
But you think about how many people have brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts and minds have all collaborated to.
You know, whether it's creating something or whatever it is, it's such a collective endeavor.
So I feel honored personally, but I feel honored on behalf of everybody.
And yeah, it's incredible.
It's amazing.
I mean you've you know what.
It's really interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know you tour the world.
You do retreats you.
You know you made an album with our dear friend Willow, who you came on the podcast with last time.
It's been amazing to watch, but I almost.
This is really exciting for me because even when you know someone, when I get to sit in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually going to get to know them in a way that I don't before.
So I want to go back to your childhood and I want to ask you what is a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today or embodies who you are today?
Wow.
Well, I know, with these kind of things you're supposed to say the very first thing that comes into your head.
And I'm seeing myself in a field near my house.
You know I grew up outside of London but it's not that far from the city but it's an area that there's a lot of protected farmland and stuff.
So there's a lot of fields and forest and it really feels quite rural.
And these fields were close to my house.
So I used to love walking, cycling there and just being in nature.
And yeah, they would rotate the crops and the things that were grown in the field.
And certain years there would be these incredible events yellow flowers, rapeseed flowers are sometimes called mustard flowers and you could just kind of walk amongst them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers yellow as far as i could see, so i don't know why that came to my head, but yeah, that's.
I guess that's something that's defined.
Um, who i am, connection to nature and just yeah, finding a lot of inspiration in that.
Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?
I try to.
Yeah yeah, I do.
Is it where you are now or when you go back home?
Because I know you don't live in London.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, for the last almost three years, we've been living in the Bay Area.
So that's famous around the world for the incredible nature.
So now we've got the redwood trees and, you know, the incredible California coast.
So, yeah, we try to be out in that environment as much as possible.
But I love to like, you know, I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd.
So wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to learn about what trees are around.
And yeah, it's just something that inspires me a lot.
Yeah, I mean, I obviously know your parents.
Your dad actually was our wedding priest for me and Radhi.
And so he actually did our wedding ceremony.
And I've known your parents for 20 years now as well.
And they've always been just so wonderful.
And they're so loved by our community.
And everyone has such an affinity for them.
Like what... what do you think each of them gave you growing up that you carry with yourself today?
Like what, what was a quality or a value or a belief or even mindset that you think has really stayed with you for all these years?
They're both truth seekers.
That's something that I think brought them together.
I mean they both joined the spiritual community for, I think, around a decade before they got married.
So they came from their respective religious traditions that they were brought up with, and even countries.
You know, my mom's from Canada.
And both of them went on a personal odyssey of a sort searching for truth and meaning purpose in life.
So I think that courage to depart from the script that's being given, which I know a lot of people had in the 60s 70s, a lot of young people felt emboldened to take some unconventional steps.
But not only did they sort of try that on, but they've committed to that life and to deepening, I think, with every year, and to have parents that are so committed to a life of service and devotion and community.
I think both of them in their own way.
My mom's the one, I mean, actually both of them are very people people.
They know a lot of people, they remember people's names, but they really care about people as well.
I think in our community, if they walk from point A to point B like a five minute walk, they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about what's going on in their life at the moment.
So I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.
It's hard to follow in their footsteps.
In my life and I guess in the life of all of us who have grown up with the internet and social media, we have the ability to be connected to so many more people than ever before.
And it's difficult to bring that same quality of presence and attention and care to all of our interactions.
But it's a kind of a gold standard that I have in my mind.
Yeah, so much.
It's hard to measure all the things you've received from your parents.
Did you always know that you wanted to create music?
Did you always know that?
I didn't know that I wanted to create music in a formal way, but I think I was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing.
When I was home recently, my mom had some cassette tapes that I used to record myself.
At what age?
Probably seven, eight, nine years old.
And I had one of those keyboards, Casio keyboard, and I would just put on a drum beat and I would just play.
I didn't know how to play keyboard, but I had total lack of, you know, inhibition.
I just record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell a story, make up the story as I went along.
And they were just meant for my sister to hear like bedtime stories and stuff like that.
But when I listen back, I was like, oh, I guess I was kind of making up songs and things like that.
But yeah, it wasn't.
Are you any good now when you listen back?
No, it was embarrassing.
It was really embarrassing.
We need to hear them.
I need to hear this.
I think I'm going to digitize them just so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've come a long way.
But I mean, I love to sing.
You know, I grew up surrounded by music.
My dad and mom both love singing.
My dad was really well known for his voice and singing.
We sung as a family together, so I think it was just always around me.
But I'm quite introverted by nature, so I was never like, I want to be a singer.
What's the difference?
For someone who doesn't know what's the difference between devotional mantra music and popular music or music in general.
How would you differentiate them?
I think there's a few key differences.
One is the most obvious, which is the lyrics.
With mantra music specifically, a mantra is a sacred word or phrase, often containing names that refer to the supreme being.
And it's repeated.
So people's first reaction is like Why are you saying the same thing over and over again?
But the idea is that it's a type of purifying.
I always think of a washing machine.
If you had clothes that were really dirty, you put them in the washing machine a few times, or something like that.
So it's sound vibration that is intended to clarify, purify the heart and mind.
But I think the other key difference is the intention of the music.
So the intention is often, prayer is to connect, like you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space within.
Whereas I think music can have all kinds of intentions.
There can be the intention of the artist just to express something, just to connect with the listener, or just to entertain.
I don't mean just to minimize what that is, but yeah, the quality of it is different.
You can encounter that.
You can feel it.
Yeah, no.
I remember when I first got exposed to it, it was addictive and intoxicating.
In a way, that was something I hadn't experienced before.
I remember my friends and I would love going out to parties and clubs and things like that.
And then when I heard devotional music for the first time, I was like, wait, why do I like this?
But it felt familiar and it felt like it I don't know connected with a part of me that had been buried for some time or not, you know not awakened.
And yeah, it has a really special quality.
And now obviously, years later, it's one of my favorite things to experience, especially when you're chanting.
Did you feel that straight away?
Do you remember if you... Did it take a while to appreciate it or immediately felt it?
On one of the first retreats I went on, like I felt it immediately.
It was.
There was a part of it.
That was just fun because there's so much.
You know there's dancing, there's trying like it's.
It's such a celebration.
It's not always just sitting in meditation.
Exactly.
It's so festive.
Yeah.
So I think there's a part of that, but there were there were certain people and yeah, I'll tell you later of who specifically but like yeah, they were, they were just, they were just specific people.
There were definitely experiences I had very early on that made me very convinced that the practice made sense and it was beautiful and special.
But yeah.
So you were always artistic, as in you were always playing around.
Yeah.
Talk to me about the discovery because so much of our community and our audience.
Yeah. is always in the pursuit of their passion.
And obviously you're doing something you love.
You're doing something that's more niche.
You're also doing extremely successfully.
This is what you do.
It's what you offer to the world.
And I think often we live in a world today where we think, oh well, if I'm not doing something that's really mainstream and if I'm not doing something that has millions of followers, then I can't do it.
And then it can't be successful and it can't take care of me and my family.
And I think there are people like yourself and others I know that have found something you love, that serves other people, makes them happy, is able to get nominated for a Grammy.
Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of this passion or maybe it was always a passion but the discovery of mastery of it.
What did you study at college?
What did you think you, actually, let's go backwards.
What did you think you were going to be when you were like 11 years old?
Because I feel we all get asked that question.
What did you write?
I'm intrigued.
What did you write?
I remember.
So I went to school at the temple in the temple community till I was about 10 years old.
And then I went to, you know, a bigger regular school And what was that transition like?
That was hard.
It was really hard.
Talk to me about the difference.
So I didn't go to a school like that.
I only ever went to public schools and grammar schools in England and never went to a spiritual school.
So talk to me about what that means.
Yeah.
And then the transition from...
Yeah, so the school at the temple, so the place where I went to school, is called Bhaktivedanta Manor.
And it's in many ways an idyllic environment.
It's kind of 80 acres of beautiful country land.
There's cows there.
There's a beautiful lake.
It was a very special environment to grow up in.
The school was very small, so we had very individual attention from the teachers.
There was a lot of singing, drama, art, in addition to the usual things we studied.
And also we would lead the chanting in the temple once a week as a whole school.
Are you still learning the national curriculum?
Yes, we were doing the national curriculum, so we were doing all the regular subjects, but we would also have time where we would study texts like the Bhagavad Gita.
We would learn verses and things, even from four or five years old.
So it's a very unique way to grow up.
For me, it was all I knew.
But there would be schools that would visit the temple as part of their religious education.
Some people might not know in the UK, religious education is compulsory in school.
So you go out to places of worship and see how, you know, how other people live.
So we'd have these kids looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window, looking at us.
And we'd be like, we're not zoo animals.
But they were curious, and we also didn't know what their school experience was like.
But yeah, for me it was normal and I didn't realize when I went out to a more kind of conventional school that most kids don't learn songs in ancient Sanskrit when they're young.
Talk about death and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and things like that.
You know, it kind of makes you a bit weird to other kids.
And I also didn't have that much exposure to pop culture.
You know so, But you only realized that when you went to high school.
You didn't know that until then.
I didn't know that, but it was a bit of a rude awakening.
Tell me about it.
Yeah, I mean, I was...
I was confident in my world, but coming out of my world, I felt extremely vulnerable and shy.
Sometimes people say, oh, when did you give yourself the name Genevieve?
And I'm like.
No, I was given this name when I was born and I chose to keep that as my name when I went to regular school.
Anyone who has an unusual name knows the embarrassment of the teacher pausing when they get to your name and the kids all laugh or whatever those kind of things are.
Even being vegetarian at that time was quite unusual.
I think it's much more common now.
I just wanted to disappear.
I didn't want to be comment worthy in any way.
And yeah, that was really hard because I was trying to erase...
I was trying to erase myself in a way so that no one would have anything to say or make fun of.
Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture?
Different name, yeah.
Why do you have white skin but you say you're Hindu?
Your name is weird, can we just call you something else?
Why do you eat that?
They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but everyone knows kids can be really mean as well.
I didn't even grow up.
I didn't grow up around that many kids.
So suddenly being in a class of 30 kids, it can be quite a sensory overload, also if you're sensitive.
And it's just.
I think it's about also having the confidence as a young person to speak about.
Why did you grow up in this way?
What are the things that you believe in?
Sometimes you don't have that experience until you're a bit older.
I just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd rather become silent.
So that was really difficult.
I felt like I'd been kicked out of the nest.
You know the baby bird kicked out of the nest and I couldn't get back to the nest.
Because you change through those difficult experiences.
You're no longer...
I remember I did wear a school uniform at the temple school, but it was a different kind of school uniform when I went to the other schools.
And I remember my parents were saying, oh, why don't you come?
You know, there's a worship service at the temple every morning.
And they were saying, why don't we go before school?
You can go in the temple.
And I was like, well, I'll have to wear my uniform.
And they were like, that's okay.
You can just come in your uniform and come for 10 minutes, then we'll go to school.
And I was like, I can't.
And they said, why can't you?
And I
I was trying to describe it, but I was trying to say that when I put that uniform on, I have to become someone else.
It's almost like I felt like I would implode or something if I tried to be that person at the temple.
It was just like two different masks I had to wear or characters, roles that I was playing.
So learning how to integrate and just be yourself in all environments, that was a real...
Journey.
Going back into the world of work was a culture shock.
Yeah.
And it was very, very different.
It was almost easier to go into the monastery than it was to get out, because getting out felt like wait a minute.
I've been practicing all these things for three years and now I have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking event and I don't drink and there's certain things I don't eat anymore and things like that and just having to adjust.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's- It's embarrassing.
Yeah, it's hard.
And I did that as an adult.
So to me, it was hard, but it was somewhat easier.
But to do that as a teenager is super hard.
What actually helped to integrate?
How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite lives that seem to contradict themselves?
What did you do to integrate?
What did that look like?
Yeah, I think in my school, the school school years, like you know, till 18 or so I just really struggled.
It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years, because not that every day was dark, but it just I just didn't feel like I could find that confidence and that self-assurance to feel yeah, grounded in who I am.
And I kind of went back and forth in and out of.
You know, I'd go to a regular school for a year and then I would actually, I mean, several times.
I kind of made myself sick actually with anxiety.
I started developing stomach issues and I get headaches every single day.
I wouldn't eat at school.
I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and eat it on the bus on the way home.
Just like all these behaviors that were not, I don't know why I was doing those things.
So then I'd tell my parents, okay, I want to do like homeschooling for a while.
And I do that.
But then, you know, I could tell myself that It's not like, I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched a bit.
Like when you're in that comfort zone of home or you're just with friends or your parents telling you to do things.
You don't always push yourself.
So I would kind of yearn for that environment again and go back into it and then feel like oh, I don't think I can do this.
And I think things really changed when I started to feel like I could take agency for myself and start to have a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education, which I think maybe for many people comes around university and you're kind of starting to hone in on what you want to do.
But I was going to say, you were saying you know, when you were 11, what did you want to do with your life?
And I remember sitting on the school bus and writing, I remember like three long lists on the page.
And they were just all these different artistic things.
And I would keep going back to the list.
And every time I would learn something more about each of those creative careers.
I might cross one off.
And it was like florist and special effects makeup artist and my, my dad would sometimes take me to like, do you know, work shadowing with different people, just to, just to try and see what it was a what it was all about.
But yeah, I had no idea where my journey would.
Did you ever narrow down to one or no?
No, I never.
No, that's so funny.
I'm still working on that.
Was it hard to go from secondary school or high school to college, like to university?
Was that hard, that transition?
Or was university not that hard?
That was easier.
That was easier because by that time, I think I developed some confidence.
I did my A-levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with older people that I found easier to be around because, I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up around a lot of older people and I found I did really well doing studying independently a lot, and so I think that gave me a lot of confidence, like choosing how I was going to study.
You know, then I finished the A-levels in a year instead of two years it's like a different way of approaching it And then I started to feel like okay, you know, I just yeah, felt different in myself.
I mean, you grow up.
So I think university, college, also people are a lot more open-minded, I found.
You start realizing that it can be cool to be different, rather than just something to be made fun of.
New Year's resolution.
Own how you show up online.
It's easy with a domain and matching email from GoDaddy.
Now just 99 cents per month for new customers their first year.
Ring in 2026 with a domain and matching email at GoDaddy.com slash New Year.
That's GoDaddy.com slash New Year to own how you show up online.
Hi, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.
This week I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.
We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies.
And Anna opens up about her own story what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now.
So when I got attacked, it was very random.
Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me and my friend.
And they broke my jaw and my teeth.
I was unconscious.
Then I woke up and I screamed.
And I screamed because, even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like hold on, wait.
They could kill me, and I'm not going to let that happen.
I'm not going to let that happen.
I'm going to get through this.
And I did.
Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow.
And I'm Thelma, also known as Aunt Rachel.
If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters.
Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters.
Did you know that we're one of the longest running sitcoms with a black cast?
When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled with joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget.
Oh, girl, you got that right.
The look that you all give me is so black.
All black people know about the look.
On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show.
Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea.
Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to make a real difference this giving season?
This December On Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty podcasts, teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of extreme poverty.
We're doing it through GiveDirectly, which sends cash straight to families so they can choose what they need most.
Donate at givedirectly.org forward slash on purpose.
First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact.
Our goal is $1 million by year's end enough to lift 700 families out of poverty.
Join us at givedirectly.org forward slash on purpose.
Did you have any wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through with you that helped you through those tough times?
Or do you feel it was?
You were trying to keep it out so much that it didn't really even have a chance.
Like I've really felt that when I went back into the world of work, the thing that I held onto the most was that really changed my life.
I genuinely mean it was the verse that says when you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you.
And I'm translating dharma as purpose in that regard.
Originally, it's when you protect your dharma, your dharma protects you.
And when I heard that verse, that was just profound to me and I started to want to protect what I believed my dharma was, rather than neglect it and reject it, to move toward what the world was trying to get me to focus on.
And that acted as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure.
Was there anything for you?
I'm just intrigued.
Or was it so like you were, like this is so alien.
I have to keep it separate that you were just trying to avoid it.
That's such a great question.
I don't think I've thought about it in that way before.
I don't remember actually taking strength from the spiritual tradition independently.
I think my parents would try to help me with that.
And I know for sure, I think on an emotional level my mom was trying to care for me in every way possible.
I mean, I really gave my parents a hard time.
I'm also the eldest, so I was the first of the children to go out to school.
What do you mean you gave them a hard time?
I would cry every day.
I would beg not to go to school.
I think they were just, you know, parents are just trying to do the best for you.
They wanted me to have opportunity.
They wanted me to grow intellectually, to do well in studies and everything.
And I think they were really confused about like how can we make her be happy and just embrace this with confidence and not just be kind of yeah, stressed and anxious all the time.
So yeah, i feel i feel really sorry for what you know putting them through that um, but they were definitely really trying to help also from a spiritual perspective always and, you know, in in simple and digestible ways.
But i think yeah, it was.
It was difficult for me to really integrate that at the time.
Did you so many kids who grew up in religious and spiritual communities yeah, end up leaving?
Did you ever consider it?
Not at the time.
Not at the time.
And people would always ask me that.
And it was like a very common question, especially from people outside of the tradition.
They'd always be like, so did you ever want to just rebel and just leave?
And I would always very confidently say, no, no, I never really had that inclination.
One of the reasons I think with that is that my parents have been always very broad-minded, very open to talking about anything.
And I would have a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about...
Any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would come to my mind.
We would always talk about it.
And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions, so he'll always have some great insight to offer.
So I didn't feel that pull, but I think what I didn't know was that doubt and crisis of faith, or looking at your tradition from a different lens.
It doesn't necessarily always happen in those formative teen times.
Sometimes it can come later on or sometimes comes multiple times through your life.
So it's not that I ever felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went through some difficult times at a later phase.
I think when I really started to Yeah, it's almost like with every step further out into the wider world, it kind of demands of me to go deeper in what I practice and believe, because it's being kind of butted up against just these intense currents of everything that's going on in the world.
Yeah, I often think about that because, you know, when Radhi and I talk about like thinking about having children or whatever it is, and like how we want to raise them where they have good spiritual values but at the same time, they have choice,
And it's always hard because you're kind of like I always think.
I always believe that people who choose what they follow and someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that opportunity as they get older to keep choosing.
And I always feel like when you choose what you follow it, you're more confident about it.
It generally has more power, generally speaking.
Yeah.
But when you're raised in something, you have to choose as you get older, because you choose whether this value is still yours.
And the interesting thing about that is that also just applies to anyone who grew up in the normal system, because you grow up with certain beliefs your parents have.
And then at one point you pause and you go, wait, do I even believe this?
So your parents might have believed that you shouldn't work that hard, or you should marry a man who works hard, or your parents may have had the belief that you should always do what you love, or you should never do what you love.
You should do what is safe and is reliable.
And I think we all go through our twenties and thirties and have reflection points where we say well yeah, my parents believed that, but I didn't.
And so it applies to all of life but obviously very specifically aligns to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition, in a specific path.
When did music go from being passion, exploration, curiosity to mastery?
Because I think this is such an important part.
I think I hear a lot of people who say, follow your passion.
And I think that's okay, you know, but if you're going to turn it into something you do professionally, the passion at one point has to turn in to proficiency and mastery.
When did you start to actually master your art and craft?
What did that look like?
I don't identify with the word master in any way.
And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way.
Yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching the surface.
But I think that it happened very organically.
When I was 18, I started to develop more of an independent interest in my own tradition and really engage with the mantra meditation practice, kirtan.
And also I'd been studying the violin since I was about 10 years old, and that was always something I did basically in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher.
I never really used my instrument in a public place.
I did one day in an orchestra and I got bullied and then I was like, I'm not going back.
So it was very like, I got to a point and I was like, why am I even learning this instrument?
So it was only when I started playing it at the temple, in the kirtan, and trying to improvise, I realized that, aside from just participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer, something I can develop and refine.
And initially that was my connection through the violin world.
That was my voice.
I was too shy to sing.
But I think everything actually stemmed from there because, through the violin, I ended up joining a mantra music group that was forming at the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree.
And I did not know what I was going to do next.
I studied English and creative writing, linguistics.
It was very interesting to me, but I had no idea what to do with it.
And this opportunity came a month before my graduation to tour all over America and all around the world.
It ended up being
So it was a no-brainer.
I was like, yeah, I want to do that.
And I thought that it would just be...
I still felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job.
I didn't know what that was.
I actually then I did get a job as a magazine editor, but I got the job.
And then right when I was meant to go back and take it, I was doing this touring beforehand.
And then I just wrote to them.
I said, I'm sorry, I can't.
I think I need to keep doing what I'm doing.
It was, yeah, speaking to my soul, I guess.
So it's been very organic.
I think I have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way, because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself, have a livelihood with that activity.
And so it's a real act of, I think, faith and courage to sort of just keep going with it year upon year.
And so I was many times constantly questioning myself okay, so is now the point when I should get a quote-unquote regular job or something that's more yeah, predictable and stable.
Yeah.
Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and make music in a way that you don't access through any other practice?
I would say yes.
Yeah, I do.
I think it's an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound.
Sound, being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool, just your own voice, and it just requires presence and it's it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience it also, like we have ears to hear, you know a voice to use and um Yeah, I remember first starting to become aware of that around.
I mean, I had many incredible moments when I was a child.
You know, sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories of Kirtan and there's so many incredible times.
Like there was a festival that would happen every year.
We would walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park, and there would be a festival, many tents there till late at night and the kirtan would be going all afternoon into the evening.
And i just remember feeling so joyful, so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience.
Um, i think i started to really notice that wow this, there's something really special here around 16 17 18, and feel like i want to come back to this.
You know how you feel when you I guess there's so many things you could liken that to but you just yeah, you want to keep doing it.
What have you found when people are?
Because I think singing out loud can feel so nervous for people, because it's this call and response where you're chanting and people are responding back, especially when you're live.
Yeah.
What have you seen like the transformation people have had?
Where they start off because you do retreats et cetera, where they start off really nervous and anxious in their report?
Yeah, yeah.
And then what have you seen that turn into?
Even for people who think like I can't sing to save my life or I don't like the sound of your voice or whatever it may be my singing voice, I'm very confident speaking, but
I've heard you sing.
I think you can sing.
I think you can sing.
Now I know you're lying for sure.
Now I have proof that last night when we were talking about that thing, you were lying.
But what, yeah, what is that for you?
Like, What have you seen?
I'm intrigued for people.
Anyone who's listening right now.
Anyone who's listening right now I hope you're going to go to Spotify or you know Apple and type in Genevieve Harrison.
And, you know, I'm looking, you've got like 134,000 monthly listeners right now.
And if someone was to listen to this music or they were going to come and see you live and you'd say Hey, everyone sing along with me, which is very common at these events.
Yeah, if someone's nervous in the beginning or doesn't quite get it.
How have you seen people transform over time through retreats and events?
Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous.
I think many people, or even I would say most people, have some level of insecurity about singing out loud.
I think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing with other people.
There's no demand that you even sing really loud.
You can sing very quietly but feeling that togetherness.
We all can experience that if we go to a concert or, I don't know, football match.
Everyone's singing the same thing together.
It's empowering and it's connecting in a way that few things are of that nature.
So I would even say that some people that lead this type of music are more strident or commanding and like come on, everyone sing.
I think I being a more shy nature, I really empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous.
I don't expect people to push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.
I always tell people, if you want to sing internally um, because you have, we have an internal voice as well, you can sing back in in your heart.
I do that on the plane.
If i'm stressed, i listen to something and then i sing back with my inner voice.
But um, It's incredibly freeing.
And I've seen people relax and become free in a way that they didn't expect, by letting go and letting their voice out.
Everything that feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense of achievement afterwards as well.
Yeah, yeah.
What do you think people turn to your music for, when you're finding people discovering your music who are not from the tradition, who aren't familiar with it?
You are Radhi's, I think, number one artist on Spotify rap this year.
She's playing in the house all the time.
What are people seeking?
What have you found?
I can say what people tell me, which is, I think people say that they find a sense of peace, a sense of shelter and comfort.
A lot of people tell me that they listen to my music in difficult times.
So many people say...
I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell, someone in my family was dying or I was getting ready to get married, and then I played your music on my wedding day as I was coming in.
These kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life.
A lot of people talk about playing my music first thing in the morning or last thing at night, when they want to connect to a place of deep prayer or a sacred space.
Yeah, I think that's what people find and I'm always blown away by people's stories.
And ultimately, you as a person or I speak for myself we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and everything that we bring to you know, we bring all of it to every endeavor.
Yeah.
So it's really incredible for me that I can do something that allows someone to enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected, because I know that that's not it's me, because I'm allowing myself to be used in that way.
But I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.
Yeah.
Every time I mean every time I'm in one of your sessions, I'm like just at the back trying to hold back my tears.
I've seen that.
It's, it's, it's strange though, because you can't really explain it.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's so hard to put into words where you just got to be in one.
And I've had like, my team has come to sessions.
Obviously we have friends here who've come to events at our home.
And it's amazing how you don't need to know the language.
You don't really, you don't even need to know to some degree.
I know you always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't know what it means, it's so interesting.
How and sound has that potential?
I think you know, if you look at even music right now, like Latin music is, you know, so global now.
Yeah.
You know, you've got Bad Bunny, who's Puerto Rican, and that style of music has taken over and you've got and that's what's so beautiful about music in general is that it's so beyond language and so beyond where you grew up.
Yeah, it transmits.
It transmits, yeah.
The meaning, you really feel it.
Yeah, which is so special and I definitely feel that in, you know, in mantra music, in an unexpected way.
Yeah.
Although I would say you know I've started to also experiment with Or not experiment, but part of my creative journey in the last few years has been to write original songs also and incorporate that into, Especially when I do concerts.
You know I kind of distinguish certain settings for certain offerings.
I think you know there's a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with kirtan in a very traditional sense and it has a very, it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people are.
They know what to do, you know they're ready, but in a more maybe I don't know if theatrical setting is the right word to use but in an auditorium where there may be people who have never done this before.
I've started to weave together these traditional chants with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only just a tool for making a connection point for someone else with a language of prayer, but for me also.
I've found it to be something that brings a certain vulnerability and personalism too, which I think in some ways, growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo, because the practice of kirtan is very much not about you putting yourself there.
It's really being a vessel, being a channel to just give this pure sound um, but i think that there's some value as well in sharing um yeah personal, a personal prayer, personal reflection on, on just being someone trying to go through life and be connected to to, to truth and and faith and beauty.
Yeah, if someone was to start with one of your albums yeah, where would you like them to start like.
If someone was like i want to check this out, i don't really know much about it.
Yeah, what would you recommend?
I think, if someone's curious in just mostly the traditional songs and mantras.
My first album, Like a River to the Sea, is a great one.
But I think a lot of people connect with the album that I did with Willow called Rise.
And then my recent album Into the Forest.
I think Rise and Into the Forest are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and some original lyrics.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, for anyone who's starting out their journey of wanting to move into devotional music and have never had the experience of it.
Or they should check out Radhi's playlist.
So many people tell me oh, i found your music through radhi's playlist.
She's got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists.
Yeah, i love that.
I love that.
What's what's a misconception you think people have about spiritual people?
I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual people that they're like you're so divine and you're like You must float around your house all day spouting wisdom quotes.
That's exactly what I do.
I've seen you in your robes.
Yeah, I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts, don't have material desires, don't make mistakes.
Well, all of those things obviously are true. or that spiritual people have all the answers.
I think to try to pursue a life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there is a level of faith that's required where there's not always a hard answer.
There's very good answers, but you also still have to be very open-hearted and constantly open to learning and surrender, which is very, very difficult.
Such a great answer.
Not what I expected, but yeah, such a great answer.
Yeah, everyone's human and everyone's trying and everyone's failing and everyone's making mistakes.
And I think the problem is, when you think that a spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally because you don't feel like you've reached what other people have reached or what you should have reached.
And that can actually deter you from the path, because you think, oh well, I'm not like that and they have it all together and therefore I must not be spiritual.
Not realizing that we all already are inherently.
And perfection may be the goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is far more incremental and step-by-step than it is this enlightened day.
I think that's a misconception.
I always think is people are always like what was the day you've realized?
I have not had that.
No, the light came down from the clouds again it's how media has portrayed it where it feels like you have this day of enlightenment.
It's like yeah, I've had really special meditations, I've had really special experiences, but it's three steps forward, one step back, two steps pause.
Three steps forward.
Sometimes 10 steps back.
Totally.
And you're like, what am I doing wrong?
And that's what it's meant to be.
Yeah, yeah.
I do find that I encountered that the more that I became publicly known for doing mantra, meditation and sacred music, I would start to encounter more and more people coming to me like with shining eyes.
I could feel and sometimes it's very obvious by the words they say, that they are for want of a better phrase putting me on a pedestal or thinking that there's some kind of perfection happening, which I know is not true.
And I think part of that is anyone that's kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice or experience.
We may associate that person with the feeling and the very real experience that we get.
But I think yeah, I think, as you get older, especially just accepting both your own, being patient with your own flaws.
I've definitely had to learn to be very patient with myself.
Because yeah, I mean, we're blessed to have as well, you know, we're blessed to know so many people who truly are exemplary in their life and their actions.
And yeah, I mean I identify with that looking at someone thinking God, you know, I'm never going to be, I'm never going to be spiritual.
What's something that you used to believe to be true spiritually and now you don't agree with it?
I think, growing up in a particular spiritual tradition, you're surrounded by constant affirmation and validation of that tradition.
If you're immersed in a community, you're surrounded by people who believe in that path, in those practices.
And I think the more that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks of life who've had all different kinds of experiences.
I don't know if it's so much something that I don't believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around me was saying yes, yes.
And I really value that.
I feel that's necessary.
But it's not always easy because...
Sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer to conflicting worldviews and opinions about things.
That's something that I've encountered a lot on on my journey.
Sometimes it's even people that are within the same broad category of a of a religion or a faith tradition.
But you know different strands of of specific beliefs.
Um, there's so much nuance and yeah, I think I've found it harder to to be like.
This is the answer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, I agree.
I think it's a healthy thing.
And it's also, the brain just doesn't like it for simplicity's sake.
It's just easier for the brain to have its set of beliefs and move with them, even if they're not helpful.
And so when you allow yourself to be in a paradox, it's challenging.
And that's why we avoid it.
That's why we prefer left or right or black or white or binary thinking.
And so I find that in my own self, I try and live it like that.
I try and live in the middle of the Venn diagram always, like trying not to be binary.
But it's hard because it's so much easier to pick a place to live and say yeah, I'm going to go all in and believe this is the truth, or?
I'm going to refute it.
And it's like, well, no, there's things that make sense and there's things that don't make sense.
I was just saying to someone this morning.
I was like it's funny how we've always talked about how, whether the glass is half full or half empty,
And I'm like, it's both.
Like, it's always both.
That's just a stupid question.
Because- Could you see it through, like, could one eye have one lens and the other have the other?
Totally, and it's like- Both things at the same time.
Yeah, and both things are true.
If a glass is half full- it is therefore half empty.
And so therefore the right answer is I see both.
And if you see both, it means I can fill the glass up.
And it also means I have more to drink.
And so this idea of, do you see the glass is half full or half empty?
The answer is both, but it's the brain doesn't want that answer.
The brain just wants to choose one or the other.
So we either become positive or negative you know, evangelists of our beliefs or we become negative and pessimists of that belief and we don't recognize that most things have lots of good in them and lots of things that they could improve and yeah, and grow.
But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers one or the other and Yeah.
And sometimes it's hard to feel.
You know it's difficult because you also don't want to be.
Sometimes you have to choose a specific direction or you know there is specificity to the choices we make and sometimes
For integrity, you need to kind of define things.
Is it this or is it that?
But anyway, it's very context-based as well, I find.
But I don't know if it's because of me also trying to connect with that space, but I know a lot of people have told me that Now there's so many people who have grown up in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy judgment or trauma, even.
It seems more common than not.
Sometimes, or at least maybe, I just encounter people who speak about that.
And I've felt encouraged that people have said when they've come to my events or gatherings that they feel it's a safe space to be in a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them.
And I feel happy about that, you know.
I want to try to hold that tension.
I don't know if it's tension, but it's like walking a path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.
Get started at GoDaddy.com with GoDaddy Aero.
I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.
How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again?
And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.
And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke.
And he got down, and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power.
Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism.
We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time.
Being more able to look people in the eye.
Not always hide behind a microphone.
Listen to Heavyweight on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish.
This is David Eagleman from the Inner Cosmos podcast, and this week we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future.
Lab-grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination.
It invites us to question why we draw lines exactly where we do, and whether those lines are drawn in ink or in pencil.
And what does this have to do with sanctity, brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories, flesh copyrights, and the future of personhood?
What is the table we're going to set for ourselves?
What does this question uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality?
Listen to Inner Cosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've gone through in life, that you feel your faith has been integral to moving through?
I don't think there's been a life event like you know, some of the huge things that happen, or you know, losing a loved one, things like that that are often the cause of a you know, a deep um grief and sorrow that sometimes leads to a spiritual search.
But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which required faith.
That's good yeah yeah um which yeah, took me by surprise.
You know, i think the experience especially if you're used to being someone who who, that's something that you do feel sure of and then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel like rug is pulled out from under your feet and i i felt like i'm i'm not quite sure who i am.
You know, you're like like uh, like in a coloring book.
You know you've got the lines and that's like the defined color within the lines.
But imagine if the lines just disappeared and you just color like, who am I without that?
Um, I have experienced that a couple of times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's yeah, it's.
It's an interesting answer because yeah, it's like how I hosted the variety faith in spirituality on his last week.
Yeah.
And I was talking about how the people who are being awarded and honored they've showed different types of faith.
And I was saying it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith.
And that's what makes it so real, where I think faith-based content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note where, like this is who you are.
Or like, this is the kind of person you should be.
Yeah, gotta believe.
Yeah, yeah.
And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of what faith can look like and spirituality can look like.
And it's just so much more real.
Yeah, relatable.
Yeah, relatable and grounded and accessible.
And yeah, just truly transparent, because that's what it can look like.
And I think, if anyone is a person of, how did faith help you re-find faith when there was a crisis of faith?
I think there was a period of time and it wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt it felt a lot longer than it was, I think of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated.
And it feels like a type of darkness, because something that had previously given you a lot of light and internal support and nourishment just seems to disappear, or it seems like vapor.
Was that actually real?
And I think, faith almost.
It felt like it seeped in, almost like through a pinhole where you get light that just comes through a tiny crack and it gradually grows.
But initially...
There had to be a speck of faith for me to think that faith could even return in a way.
I had to be open to that.
And I found through that experience I connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally, versus more ritual type of worship or a set practice or routine.
More spontaneously, more expressively in English
And it's funny because I grew up completely steeped in prayer throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in.
I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up.
There was always bells ringing, and in my tradition, we blow this conch shell.
There's these kind of spiritual sounds around And ancient mantras.
Sanskrit was a very familiar language for me.
But what I didn't have confidence and ease with was praying in the language that I speak and actually being that personal to just be alone and speak those words whatever was coming up.
And I think that was a really transformative experience and time for me and actually led to some of the songs that I've recorded, because
And eventually I thought you know you don't always think that I should record this because it's so personal and specific.
But I did feel that I bet there are others who go through these times or who feel these emotions.
It may enable them to express words that they can't find the words to say.
Do you think we all need to talk to God more?
100%.
100%.
Yeah, I was thinking about this ahead of our chat because I was thinking about how much you know in the last I don't know if it's the last decade, but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard so much.
Meditation has become something that is so in many ways integrated into you.
Know, it's not that everyone does it, but if you say it, no one's going to probably look at you funny.
You might see people doing it in an ad, or you know.
I always remember walking into I think it was Gap or something you know on a high street and there were these mannequins sitting like this in the lotus position.
And I was like, oh, interesting.
This is like filtering into just everyday, you know, culture and fashion.
But I was thinking about how meditation can bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection.
But what am I meditating on?
And the difference between just coming to a place of groundedness stillness, calming the mind and prayer, to me is quite distinct.
That's my personal take on it.
Someone may use those terms differently and describe it differently, but I feel like if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or even if it is something that's familiar, that you did grow up with, I feel like sometimes they say oh, just try doing something with your left hand or your non-dominant hand, because it will reveal something to you.
Or you'll feel a different way of looking at something and doing something.
I think yeah, it might be something that listeners would like to try to either approach it for the first time or approach it through a different pathway.
Yeah.
I like that as an example.
It's like a new neural pathway almost.
Yeah, yeah.
Just why not try?
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it involves, you know, there's so many different ways that people pray.
For some people it's very spontaneous.
Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their body in a certain position or doing certain actions.
And I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state of mind and of being that can allow you to express some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access in a natural way.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, i mean for me, like i find i love talking to god when i'm driving, i do that, i do, that's my favorite.
Yeah, in one of the hardest times i experienced, that was the time you just reminded me of that i, i would just talk yeah, driving by myself cry yeah speak, sing.
I i find driving to be so therapeutic yeah, a place to share streams of thoughts.
Yeah, and I always love it.
I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty scene where he's like asking God for a sign yeah, God keeps sending him loads of signs and he keeps ignoring them and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever it is, and I'm like yeah, I'm always looking around for signs when I'm driving and connecting billboards to to God's message to me, and it's just like this fun idea that that there's some, you know, there's some power in what I'm reading and seeing.
So I love that.
Last question before the final five.
What's a question you ask yourself when you feel lost?
Hmm.
Am I connected with my, am I, am I being of service?
Hmm.
Am I actually connected with service in this moment?
Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then you'll have found where you belong.
Yeah, I feel like it's a state of being which is protective, because it's protective of the experience of being totally lost, because you're focusing on giving.
It's hard being... embodied human.
It's so easy to feel lost for so many different reasons.
But when you're thinking about how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like, I find that that really helps me.
It's such a great answer.
And I couldn't agree more.
And I think it's one of the biggest losses of modern education and modern space, where everything to solve you is all about you and not about anyone else.
And there's been studies on this too.
Like if you have depression and you help people who have depression, your depression goes down.
And so even in a really difficult state, the act of service can still be helpful to yourself.
What to speak of when things are not that bad.
And yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think oh, if I have more than I'll be able to give more.
But actually, wherever you are just now, you already may have a little more than someone else.
And if you can help and support in whatever way time energy, money if that is your way of helping.
Yeah.
I love that answer.
Such a good answer.
It's something I've been trying to say, this prayer every day, and it's a traditional Sanskrit prayer.
I won't say all the words, but it ends with the phrase Das Anudas, and that means servant of the servant.
And it's funny when I was growing up and this is one of those things that in a religious community a certain thing becomes a way that people do things which from the outside can seem a bit weird.
Yeah.
So everybody would sign a letter or a message, your servant.
And I can't remember when it happened, but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something.
But I just saw that through a different lens and I thought that must sound so funny, because the idea of being a servant is not something that we would regard very highly in a sort of regular world.
But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you always looking for ways to contribute and give.
So yeah, I find that really helps me a lot.
Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I think the misconception of that is when we think oh, that means I have to stay small.
Yeah, or that means I'm going to be exploited.
Correct, correct.
And it's almost like there's been the servant leadership movement.
Yeah.
And even the idea of, oh, you could be the CEO of a company and see yourself in service of others.
Yeah.
Like it's not based on your position in society.
Yeah.
It's based on the mood and intention that you do that act with.
So someone could be the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world and see themselves as serving their team.
Yeah.
And someone could be the best player in the world and see themselves as serving their team.
Mm-hmm.
Or you could be all those things and think you're the best thing in the world and no one else is important.
And so it's got nothing to do with your external position.
And I think the problem we think is, oh, my external position has to match that.
So therefore I won't- I've got to be small.
Yeah, I've got to be small and play small and it doesn't make any sense because- Yeah.
I'd like to understand and grasp that more deeply because I think I still struggle with that.
In our friendship, you've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and be unafraid to...
I guess, grow and broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger as a service.
But it's so difficult, when you're more visible or more in a position of leadership, to continue to kind of yeah, harmonize that idea that I'm serving but also have to kind of have the things that go along with being more in a leadership position.
I don't know for me.
I find it, I find it challenging.
Yeah no, I don't disagree.
I think that the more closer you get to your unique service, the less you see it as big and small and the more you see it as just yours and so there is no.
It kind of fades away because it's so clearly what you were meant to do.
Yeah, that then you don't see it as big or expansive, or small or not.
It's just is.
And therefore I find that people who know their purpose and their dharma are less envious and less comparative and less all of those things, because they just found their thing.
Yeah.
You know you can't be or do what someone else is doing, because you know yourself so well and you feel aligned in what you're doing.
I guess I'm coming to that.
I'm coming to that now.
I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing and this is who I am.
It's taken a long time.
Yeah, well, God in the universe had to nominate you for a Grammy to get you to understand that.
I mean, he knows that I need a big push, you know?
Yeah, I love it.
Janet, it's been so nice getting to know you this way.
Thank you.
Like, I know we've had so many conversations.
I mean, whenever you're over at the house and you come over, we're all, like you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours and hours.
We you know i love having these conversations, but i feel i'm so glad i get to share you with the community and i know you've been on before a few years, back now.
That was 2020 20, was it 2020?
Yeah, it was in your old place.
Yeah yeah, so amazing to have you back on.
Thank you, and i'm a fan of the podcast, so this is like very cool for me.
It's awesome to have you here.
And we end every episode, as you know, as a fan of the podcast with a final five.
Yeah.
These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
Wow.
Everyone does one sentence.
No one else.
Okay.
Okay.
So Jana V. Harrison, these are your final five.
Thank you.
Question one.
What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
Don't be afraid.
We told you that.
Do you remember?
I've heard it from many different people, but I think my parents, mentors.
Yeah.
And it's there in the Bhagavad Gita.
Don't be afraid to have trust and courage and keep keep walking forward.
Yes.
Purpose.
Yes.
Question number two.
What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received, anything related to, to what are?
What will other people think?
Definitely, definitely.
It's when you say you want to do something and goes what will they say?
What will yeah yeah yeah, it's a good answer, uh.
Question number three uh, is there a decision you made that didn't make any logical sense but was the right one for you?
The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane home to take up this job as a magazine editor.
I'm always like a real rule follower.
And the fact that I had a flight booked And that I intentionally missed it and just said I'm going to drop that.
That didn't make any sense at the time.
And the next morning when I woke up, I was like, what did I do?
But I think I was trying to follow a deeper intuition.
And it turned out to lead me to this and many other moments.
But it took a long time for me to realize.
I had to have confidence in that decision along the way.
Yeah, I'm so glad you did that.
Question number four, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?
I think I used to put a lot more value on other people's opinions.
And that doesn't mean that I don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because I've realized how damaging it can be to place that much weight and concern on what other people are thinking and saying.
But I don't know if I could have come to that point any earlier.
Yeah, it's part of growing up, for sure.
So yeah, it's the biggest one it's.
It's a weird one.
You want to.
It's almost like you want to choose which opinions you listen to from which people.
Yeah, because we all have to listen to some like.
Yeah, and you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has to be some sense of authority.
The challenge is when you give everyone an authority.
Yeah, All of a sudden now you listen to everyone with equal attention, despite their lack of authority or competence or character.
And give weight to that.
Give weight when it doesn't have any value.
That's what I think is the issue.
We all have to listen to someone, but we give too much weight and value to people who don't know anything about that or us.
Yeah, I think I used to do that to the extreme, probably because of also growing up in an environment where you're expected to respectfully hear from anyone who's older than you or knows more than you.
But yeah, I'm a work in progress, for sure.
I came up with the system when I wrote Think Like a Monk to make it easier, because I struggled with that so much.
In spiritual circles, for sure, but in general and...
I came up with something that I call the four Cs, which is character care, consistency and competence.
And so I think about the problem that I have, and then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on one of those four.
So if it's a morality question, I have to ask the person of high character, Because if I just ask the person who cares about me, they may bend morality in my favor.
Or if I am worried about my health, I've got to talk to the person who cares about me but is also competent.
Whereas the person who might have, who might consistently be around me, they may not have the best insight and advice.
Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom, she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I take care of myself than do something good for work.
And so- So do they all four have to be there or it's different things for different circumstances?
I believe no one has all four.
Oh.
And-
There are different things for different decisions.
And they just care about you.
So their advice is skewed, but their opinion is also.
One of my favorite quotes says don't take directions from someone who's never been to where you're going.
And we all do that.
We all take someone's opinion and they've not even been there.
They've never reached that or achieved that.
And we're sitting here taking their word as gospel.
And so, yeah, those four Cs have kind of really helped me.
That is really helpful.
It's a tough one to learn, because you may have people that are very close to you and you assume that by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply, that they will have all, or at least most, of those.
But yeah, it's not necessarily the case.
Yeah, like even even my mom.
Like, my mom has a very good character, she cares about me, she's consistent, but she's not competent in every area.
She's competent in some areas.
There's some things my mom has great insight on yeah, but she's not competent in every area of my life.
And therefore it's not, you know, but anyway, all right.
Fifth and final question.
We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show.
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
I would love everyone to. to talk to God more.
I feel like a lot of, you know, like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift.
And I know it sounds like a cliche but to truly have this mood of being in service to others, to each other.
Imagine if that was like a compulsory thing just to be a citizen of the world.
I think it would be a beautiful world.
It's a great answer.
How do you know if you're talking to God or talking to yourself?
You know.
It's intention.
It's intention.
It might look like you're talking to yourself, but I think it's purely about your intention.
If you address God I mean if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition most will agree that God is everywhere, in everything.
Everything is coming from him, her.
And so there's so many different ways to do that.
And yeah, you can do it in your own way or you can get guidance on how to do it.
But I think if you've not experienced it before, it's so worth it.
It's not worth missing out on what you may find through that experience to leave it aside.
Everyone, the album is called Into the Forest.
Jennifer Harrison just got nominated for a Grammy.
I'm so excited.
I'll be at the Grammy next year.
Thank you.
Fingers crossed, hoping.
See you in two months.
Hoping for the win.
Yeah.
For any of you who don't already, please follow Janavi Harrison on Instagram.
You can subscribe to her music on Spotify and listen along to the album she's mentioned today.
And Janavi, thank you so much for being such a dear friend for doing this interview and so proud of you, so excited for this, this really big moment in your amazing career and just you doing something based on service and devotion and it being recognized at this level.
It's so exciting.
Thank you.
I want to say thank you to you because you've been such an encouraging friend, but also, I think so many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have been somehow connected to you through Serving Together.
I've learned so much and I recognize that a lot of significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement.
I really feel that.
So I share the Grammy nomination with you.
Well, I'll add that to my bio.
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's really a privilege.
I'm so grateful to be here.
No, you're so kind.
And honestly, it's been such a joy.
Like, it's fun looking back at those pictures of the last 20 years.
Did you mention Weymouth at the beginning?
I did, I did.
Yeah, I did, yeah.
Do you know what the funny thing about that picture is?
I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you can't even see me in it.
But it's like, yeah, we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how far that is from London.
I think it was about three hours.
Three hours.
We stayed the night.
We did an event.
It was like 10 people came.
Yeah.
It was a beautiful event.
It was a beautiful event.
But that's the kind of you know it's fun talking about these things because it's easy to sit here now and you know you're nominated for a Grammy and all the rest of it.
But it's like, no, it's like we used to drive three hours.
And I would do a talk and you would chant and lead meditations.
And we would do that for free, uh, just wanting to do our service.
And we do it all the time.
We did it at universities.
We did it and it was just for free all the time together.
And it's fun looking back and, and you know we, we both still do so many things for the community and here and there, but It's just so.
Yeah, it's fun looking back.
Yeah.
And how to channel and hold on to that same spirit, even though the form, the vessel of it may change.
It may have more kind of image of material success, but the intention that yes, I want to be there and I want to show up with everything that I can give.
How to kind of hold on to that?
There was a magic about those times.
Yeah.
I remember doing these meditation sessions at SOAS University.
I remember running from the tube station across Russell Square and it would be like three students would be there and we'd do that for an hour.
But yeah, just precious times.
Anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.
If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain.
You know I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons and over a hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.
New Year's resolution.
Own how you show up online.
It's easy with a domain and matching email from GoDaddy.
Now just 99 cents per month for new customers their first year.
Ring in 2026 with a domain and matching email at GoDaddy.com slash New Year.
That's GoDaddy.com slash New Year to own how you show up online.
What are the cycles fathers pass down that sons are left to heal?
What if being a man wasn't about holding it all together, but learning how to let go?
This is a space where men speak truth and find the power to heal and transform.
I'm Mike Della Rocha.
Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
Listen to Sacred Lessons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Cal Penn and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again.
We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask why does history keep repeating itself?
Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lilly Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics.
Put another way, are you high?
Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now.
But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future.
Listen and subscribe to.
Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
