J. Cole： The Fall-Off Album Interview at Home in Fayetteville ｜ Apple Music | Apple Music

Yeah.

I can't believe this album actually came out.

What are we now, like a month and some change removed?

Some people told me like yo, they're driving like from New York to Miami and they'll see the Fayetteville exit and they're like, just get off.

You know what I mean?

They come, like, take a picture, they'll sign.

You know what I mean?

Some of these are faded because they've been here for mad long.

So this is actually the beat machine that you got on LayAway?

This is the one.

I don't know if it's the exact one, because somewhere along the line, we had to buy another one.

But it's not because we lost the original.

It's just because like something else we were doing, we needed it.

So somewhere along the way, they might've got shuffled.

So I don't know if this is the one we bought or if it was the original, but that is the same style, at the very least.

It might be the exact same one that I had.

Yeah.

That my mom got.

Like we waited what 10 years for this album and to be able to celebrate it here with you at 2014 Forest Hills Drive.

I feel like I'm in a J. Cole museum.

Hmm.

And you said that you were gonna step out of your comfort zone, which is home, to have some conversations.

But you found the loophole and still invited us into your home.

That's a good point.

Um, and I am out of my comfort zone.

I ain't gonna lie.

Cause I could feel it right now.

I'm like, oh man, I'm nervous.

You know what I mean?

Like strangely enough, but, but I'm nervous.

Cause I'm, you know, like yo, when that last time I did an interview, you know what I mean?

It's been that long because, after all the things you've been through, I'm surprised to hear that sitting down in this space in your childhood home can even make you nervous.

Yeah, i guess i think it just literally has to do with the fact that, like yo, this is not my norm.

Of course, this house if i was just here in this house i actually came the last time i was here was uh, we had did something like this.

There's a trailer we shot that was set up similar to this.

But you know, months after that we were making like a big decision on the album And I had like a big decision to make.

And I was like, you know, a lot of times I get in a space where it's like, yo, I need like clarity.

I'm like overwhelmed and like I got.

Like you know, the weight of the album is on me and all of these decisions that gotta be made.

And at that time I think it was like track list in order.

Cause, as we've been making this album throughout the years, we've had a running living, breathing like track list that, like some things stay, some things fall by the wayside.

New songs come in, old songs go out.

Sometimes old songs come back.

But this was at a point where it was like, oh yo, we're really Like yo, we're really here.

We're mixing.

You know what I mean?

But there was something about the beginning of the album that like wasn't sitting right with me.

And sometimes I just got to go get like some solitude to like get clarity.

And so I was like, yo, I'll just...

Should I go to New York?

Should I post in New York?

I do that a lot.

I'm like, nah, I need to go back to Fayetteville and I need to come.

And as long as I've had this house and as many times I've been in here and been back, I haven't stayed a night here.

And mad long.

So at one point last year, I had to just come and it was like my first time staying a night in here.

Like I literally had to like buy a bed.

You know what I mean?

The bed that they bought, I had, well not me, I didn't buy a bed.

I had someone, yo, can y'all get a bed and throw it in for yourself?

And the bed that they bought, It was like a king size.

That shit don't fit in my room.

You saw my room.

That looks like a twin size face.

That's a twin.

That's a healthy twin.

You might fit a medium in there, but it's like they got a king size.

So it wouldn't fit in my room.

You know what I mean?

So like they put it in my mom's room, my mom and my stepdad's room.

And so like for the first time in a long time, I'm staying the night here.

And for the first time in my life, I'm sleeping in my bedroom parents room in a sense and it was mad weird, but that trip did actually like give me clarity that i was looking for and like i had an aha moment and it was a big like breakthrough.

You know, i called eve, i think did i call you?

Where did he come down to at some point?

But, either way, we figured something out that was like ah, that's it, we'll start it like this, then we'll go here.

So I've been back here and I'm more comfortable in this house, but it's the interview setting where, the beginning of this.

I'm like, oh shit, I kind of feel it.

I feel you.

There's nothing normal about two people sitting here and having a conversation.

We haven't done an interview in at least 15 years and there's a whole crew behind us.

No, it's not normal.

Yeah, you're right.

You're right.

But it's cool.

This is all family here.

For sure.

How y'all doing?

And I think a lot of people here who are really excited to make this moment happen.

You know, it's a celebration of your career and this album, and there's so many reasons why it's perfect to do it here.

Like this was, as we can see behind us, the birth of J Cole, the artist, and also really, Forest Hills Drive, when you released that album.

The success you felt, the success you experienced, the relief you felt and the comfort you felt after is really what birthed the idea for the fall off.

So if that's what you were feeling at that time, comfortable to the point that you were thinking about the fall off?

I'm wondering how you feel now that this album is actually out in the world.

That's a good question.

It's funny.

Cause it's like, yo, what are we now?

Like a month or some change removed.

So it's like if you had, we had this conversation fresh when it dropped, you know, I might've been more clearer in my feelings.

Cause I was in it.

You know what I mean?

I had just got done mixing it.

You know what I mean?

We pressed it out.

We sent it up to vinyl with prayers that it wouldn't leak.

You know what I mean?

And then, um, we pressed the CDs and then we putting the birthday blizzard out and like, I'm in it.

You know what I mean?

And like, I'm, I'm fully in the, in the releasing of this.

And then even when we put it out, we went on the road and I'm in it now a month later.

And it's like, yo, I'm kind of, I'm like, back in my regular schedule program, you know what I mean?

And like, I feel every day I get further away from like being in it.

I listen to it, you know what I mean?

But it's tough for me to answer the question, how am I feeling right now, now that it's out?

And I mean it doesn't have to be today or yesterday, but the general feeling, because I think after each project you've released there's been feelings.

After Sideline's story, it wasn't necessarily a positive time in your life.

You didn't enjoy it.

After Born Sinner, you still felt like, cool, I survived, but you weren't necessarily happy.

You felt the darkness.

And after Forest Hills Drive, that was one of the highest points in your career right made a project you were really happy with.

Yes.

And then culturally it also hit.

So that was a high point.

So I guess I mean on a macro scale.

One was like relief.

You know what I mean?

Like relief, like, like, yo, like, yo, we did it.

Like Putting it out.

I saw some footage the other day, like we have like a bunch of footage from studio sessions and like I was combing through it and I'm looking at all the.

You know I'm in the studio, got T-minus right there Diesel, and it's like the stuff we're working on.

It's the most minute decisions.

You know what i mean.

It's the most like granular level decision making that in the moment.

Of course, it's all important and i'm fully immersed in it.

You know what i mean.

I'm fully like, like yo, this this is the most important decision, the one we're making right now.

And as i'm looking back on the camera, i'm like, or at the footage, i'm like yo, i can't believe this album actually came out because there was so much uh, decision making happening that i feel like, at times, looking back, there were times where t-minus i ain't really asking this, but but but i'm assuming there were times where him and other people that were involved were maybe in their minds like this ain't coming out because there was so much.

This is like that songs that never made the album, music on certain songs that never made the album so like.

I feel like for the past however many years i was carrying the mission, the weight of the mission,

So the overall feeling is when it came out, it was like, yo, relief.

You know what I mean?

It was like, all right, like, I don't have to necessarily carry that no more.

And there was a pride too.

You know what I mean?

There was like a, yo, you did it.

You know what I mean?

There was like a genuine gratitude.

You know what I mean?

That like, you know, that I made something that when I listened to I'm a fan of this.

You know what I mean?

I told somebody the other day, it's like, yo, I feel like I'm listening to my favorite rapper.

At many points in my career, especially early on, I was my favorite rapper.

You know what I mean?

Of course, growing up, Pac was my favorite rapper.

I had a cannabis run where he was my favorite rapper.

I had an Eminem run.

You know what I mean?

Of course, I had a Nas run.

I had all of these runs of people being my favorite rapper.

And at a certain point, when I hit my late teens, early twenties, I started to notice that like, oh wait yo.

Even if I wouldn't say it out loud, it's like yo, I'm my favorite rapper.

How do I know?

Because I'm always listening to myself.

You know what I mean?

I'm listening to myself like how I would listen to Jay-Z.

You know what I mean?

And I'm rapping along with it, boom, boom, with nobody in the car.

That's why when I met E, we were so ill when we started kicking it.

And then he found out I did music because I found somebody that like, was the biggest of a fan of me as me almost

So like we'd be riding like through Queens or on the way to the city or something.

He'd be like, yo, throwing that come up freestyle or throwing a such and such.

Like he just wanna hear it.

And I'm like, nigga, I'm glad you said it.

Cause I wanted to hear it too.

So there was also a feeling, on top of the relief, and there was a gratitude of like damn, i made it back to a point after all of these years where i was my favorite rapper, because there was a stretch where, you know i, i was.

I can't necessarily say that and not that i was trying to be even my favorite rapper.

I was making whatever was coming out because i just felt like it was that's what i had to do.

But the whole mission of the fall off, in a nutshell, i didn't say it like this 10 years ago, but the mission was to to become again a rapper that like I want to hear.

You know what I mean.

To make the music that I want to hear, to write the verses that I want to hear, to make the album that I want to hear.

So there was a gratitude of like, damn, like even on the way here, I had an hour drive here.

It's like, I'm playing an album and I'm rapping along with this shit.

Like, it's not me.

If you see me rap an Outkast album or a Jay-Z album, like I'm sitting there rapping my own album, like that.

And that hasn't happened for a long time.

Not because I don't Like the music that I put out, I'm not proud of it.

I love that music that I put out, you know what I mean?

But this one was a different mission.

Like it was a different type of return to form that I was trying to get to.

And so to answer your question.

It was like a gratitude that, like damn nigga, like I like this dude right here.

You know what I mean?

Like I like this dude would be my favorite if that wasn't me.

It's nice to hear that because, um yeah, there was clearly a lot of time when you just it seemed like you felt just a lot of pressure, right.

To get the music right, whatever that meant at the time.

And you weren't enjoying it.

Even I was even shocked to hear that after Friday Night Lights, you didn't enjoy the impact that that mixtape had had.

That was huge, but it's cause you were so caught up and always trying to figure out the next move right.

Yes.

So if this album, the idea, was born at least 10 years ago man, that is a long timeline and you are notorious self-admitted song hoarder, right.

You'll try to keep songs for projects, but I know there was some like middle child, maybe false prophets that were intended for this, but you let go of.

So over that 10 years, obviously you dropped multiple albums in between.

How were you working on like KOD or the off season and all of that and still making the actual records that made sense for the fall off?

Yeah.

So I think one it was an understanding that, like yo, this idea for this album called the fall off is a long-term thing.

I didn't think it was 10 years.

I thought it was like, you know, mind you, you gotta put yourself in.

I had just got off tour, Forest Hill Drive tour.

I had just got married.

That's already a life-changing event.

And for the first time, I'm relaxed and comfortable.

You know this story, you've heard it before, but like I recognize in those moments where I was trying to write shit and I'm like this shit kind of ass.

And it wasn't ass, but it wasn't my favorite rapper.

Like if I go back and play these voice notes from that era now, I'm actually like, oh bro, you was bugging.

That shit was dope.

But it wasn't the thing that I was looking for for myself at that time.

And I know just cause I'm like, you know, my mind works in basketball.

It's like, yo, You know, if you lose a skill, you have to work to get it back.

And so I felt like, okay, you've lost a bit of skill in certain areas.

Where you've gained in some areas, you've lost in some areas.

So now you gotta work to get it back.

It'll take time.

So I'm thinking the fall off is like, man, this is maybe a couple year thing.

So I already was thinking long term.

I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to make this album called The Fall Off.

It's going to be done in a year.

I was like, give yourself time to get there because you have to put yourself through drills.

You have to re-motivate yourself, re-inspire yourself.

So I was already thinking long term.

While I was thinking long term, I'm still writing and I'm still creating.

And it just so happens that the things that I was writing and creating were like what ended up becoming for your eyes only like like uh, i'm making these songs.

It wasn't until i actually wrote the song for your eyes only where all of these other songs that i was making made sense.

I'm like oh, i know i've been telling a story that's not necessarily my own and what i've been writing and it's not necessarily my favorite rapper.

I like this rapper, you know me, but it's like it's not the fall off level that i'm looking for, but i'm like i have to follow this feeling.

So That was the first thing.

That kind of like gave me something to do, while the fall off was like a North star.

I'm like, oh, well I need to go finish this album.

I went to New York.

Mind you, I had a baby on the way.

I didn't have a baby on the way, but you know what I mean?

Like I was about to become a father.

And so I'm like, let me go to New York.

This is my last time.

Back to Muhammad's crib, right?

Back to Muhammad's crib.

What's the word?

I'm a sentimental person with my spaces that I've liked in my life, whether it's Fayetteville, whether it's this house, whether it's Muhammad's crib, whether it's the Honda.

It's like, yo, I'm like...

These are like spaces that I love because I love my life.

You know what I mean?

I love my childhood.

I love my teens, my college years.

So I go to New York to finish this album.

And while I'm working on that album, there's some songs where I'm like oh, this could be a fall-off song.

You know what I mean?

There's false prophets.

There's some stuff they didn't even release where I'm like, oh, these are fall-off songs.

I'm going to tuck them while i'm finishing this album.

Um, so that was the first thing that went left field.

Then after not in left field, but like kind of took me off track, so to speak, then after four years only drops.

Then i become a father.

Now that's like a.

It was a beautiful thing, but it's like it is.

It's a life adjustment.

You know what i mean?

I do not care about your schedule.

They don't give a damn what you have going on facts.

You know you got to find your time to get in your creative space, Exactly.

And so I had to figure out how was I going to be creative like within that space.

And you know, I got to motivate myself.

And one of the things I was doing at that time was like I was like making these beats that was like damn near my version of like I'm trying to learn from Southside.

You know what I mean?

I'm trying to learn from like these producers.

Cause it's like you know, I come from a era where the people I looked up to they hold their nose at certain things.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, it's the real hip hop producer and boom, boom.

And it's the, if the drums ain't boom bap, but I didn't really subscribe to that.

You know what they?

I come from a cloth of like hip hop where they might hear back then like all the stuff Southside and them was doing like 808 Mafia.

They might hear them beats and go like man, all them shit sound the same.

They might hear that.

My ear goes like, nah, but I know that's not true.

And if you immersed in the world of future and such and such, you can hear all of the differences and the subtleties in these beats.

You think it's the same.

But that's like white people in the 80s or some being like oh this rap crap sounds the same.

You know what i mean.

It's no different.

They're not immersed in the world, so they can't hear the subtleties or whatever.

So i start like practicing with that and eventually what came out was like meanwhile the soundcloud era was popping at that time.

So in a matter of a few days I start spilling out these songs, not on purpose.

I'm just trying to find my quiet moments in the crib as a dad where I can actually sneak away and like go spend an hour working on some music, which is becoming less and less time now that I'm a father.

And like in one of those moments where I crept away and, like a three day stretch, I did like I don't know, like six to seven joints, which at that time was crazy.

Cause, like I wasn't actively working a recorder and the joints, I'm like yo, he's just got a sound to him.

And they saying something.

They not the fall off thing that I got on my mind still my North star, but I'm like yo, there's something.

You know what I mean.

And then we take a trip for you.

I was only towards about to start.

And I catch another wave in a hotel room and more songs spill out.

And before I know it, I'm like yo.

I got like eight right now in a matter of like four days or something crazy.

And all of that to say that kept happening.

And within a week I had like 12 songs where I'm like, yo, this is something.

And it wasn't on purpose, it was just coming out.

So I just had to have a conversation with myself like, yo, what is this?

Like a project, what is it?

And quick as fuck, the thought was like, oh, KOD, what does KOD mean?

Oh, kids on drugs, can't go with those, kill our demons.

Like the answers was coming to me.

So I'm like, well, shit, I guess I have to follow this now.

I can't disrespect what just came out. it's not what I was aiming for.

My North Star is like, I'm working on this shit called the fall off.

You know what I mean?

But I can't disrespect what's coming out.

You kept it in your mind though, because on the last track on KOD is 1985, right?

The intro to the fall off.

So at least you still try to bring it home.

Yes.

That's me being like, yo, but i'm working on something you know what i mean and even then i think kld was like uh 2018 i'm still thinking in my mind like all right i probably had to fall off out by like 2019 you know what i mean or 2020 at all points i always thought it was right around the corner but uh you know just the creative process like i had a high bar of like what where i was trying to get to personally on a skill level wise and like songwriting wise and and um And it just so happened that while I was chasing that bar, other stuff was coming out that had I ignored them, I feel like I'd be in a position where you didn't hear from me for the past 10 years.

You know what I mean?

Like where it's just I just got so in my head because it wasn't the fall off yet where I was, just where you know.

So I'm glad I, you know, I'm glad I got those out and I don't want to disrespect none of them projects because I love them projects.

Like I wouldn't have.

I wouldn't have put them out if I didn't uh, believed that they were like like, that they were great and that that they were the best version of what they were supposed to be.

You know what I mean?

But even when I, even when I was putting those together the North Star was was always trying to get to this point.

And when did the concept of the album start to take shape?

So right, of course we have this one where you're.

You're coming home at 29 and I couldn't tell in the timeline if at this point Forest Hills Drive was already out or it was just at least recorded.

Yeah, in my i mean, it's really like up for interpretation in my mind.

I go back and forth with that.

I'm like it's just the point before i was married, that's how, that's how i gave you.

It's like yo, whether it's.

You can look at it from forest hill drive and it's like i'm back and i'm on top of the world, or you can look at it around that area when i was just still successful at born center.

It's a time when i'm i'm at a, i'm at a crossroads in my life.

You know what i mean.

Like, like.

And i was at a crossroads in my life uh, during the making of Forest Hills Drive.

Because Forest Hills Drive is like, you know, it's a bigger story.

It's a more like wet dreams.

At 03, excuse me, January 28th.

I almost see that like a long distance story from like birth to wherever I was at that time.

Diss 29 is more like a hyper focused story, more detailed story of like oh, this specific trip, that where I, where I maybe got my shit together, or got closer to getting my shit together, because I was at a crossroads in my life and I and I had to really figure out like all right, which way are you going to go?

You know what I mean?

Like, are you going to go left?

Are you going to go right?

Like are you going to so?

So I don't necessarily know that if I had to lean anywhere, I'd probably go after Forest Hill Drive, but it's all interpreted.

It's not like a literal movie.

Yeah, I was just wondering because you know, as you were saying, Forest Hills Drive would have been definitely one of the peaks in your career.

And not just outwardly, but for you, like Jermaine, the person.

But it also seems, if we follow the track list on disc one, that it was also maybe some of the lowest moments for you in terms of this relationship you have with fayetteville.

Right, i believe it's like on um run a train.

There is a line where you say something like you know phenomenon in my heart, but i can start to feel the flame dying.

And for cole fans, like we have been hearing you talk about fayetteville, like villamatic, like everything, for so long that actually hearing that that line really hit me.

Nah, that's real, that's real.

You want me to talk about that line?

Yeah, because I mean it comes to, I would say once we get to disc two it ends on a more positive note some closure.

But I was a little bit surprised to hear that.

No, for sure.

Because at that time, and whether that be after Forest Hills Drive or whether that be before, it's like it doesn't even matter, because the point is the emotion.

It was a real emotion where there was a time where, first of all, i went away to school.

When i, when i left, everyone went to new york.

I love coming home, like it was one of the.

Of course i love new york, it was amazing to be up there, but like i really look forward to getting back home and i was missing home.

So any type of three-day weekend we had like in school was like i'm driving home.

I couldn't wait to come home and just to party at the same parties i was going to.

But i didn't want to miss nothing.

I wanted to at least be be home, and that lasted for throughout my twenties really.

Like, especially when we first like you know, then I'm in college, we coming back.

Then I got a deal, we coming back, and it's more lit in a different level.

You know what I mean?

Cause it's like I'm back in Fayetteville and it's like yo, we got action and activity, and it's like the love is different.

But there was a point where I started coming back home and it felt different to me.

You know what I mean?

And of course it's all internal or whatever, but it just wasn't feeling the same.

I wasn't having the same, it was heavy when I was coming back home.

It was like a burden, whether imaginary or real.

It was like a burden that I felt, and a heaviness and almost a darkness.

And like, whether it's in the form of like, bad news violence.

It also was a time when this shit was getting really, really bad.

You know what I mean?

Like everything you hear is like, yo, this shit is worse now.

It's dangerous now.

And it was like, you know, very sad stories coming out of the city.

On top of that there would be, like you know, At the time this was important to me, but it was like you would hear such and such say such and such about you.

Yo, you ain't hear, why do, why is, you know what I mean?

Like these situations of people around the city that has something to say about me.

You know what I mean?

It was like, at that time, it felt like, man, fuck, like. until we get the energy on, on poor thing.

It's yeah.

The, the sequencing on that is okay.

So let me gather my thoughts here.

It's so interesting.

Like you said, it's this like hyper focused time because on safety, there's a setup, right?

There's a friend writing you from home, right.

Giving you all of the news.

And then towards the end he sets up like yo, why is this guy making songs about you or whatever, which then leads us into poor thing.

And then you also have a reference to drum and bass, which I didn't really catch till like recently, the more I listened to the album which sets up as we go into that song.

So, even as you're on drum and bass and you're having this amazing time out like the nostalgia, then things start to turn left.

So like the story, like if you pay attention, really like you kind of feel the emotions that you were going through at the time.

You know?

For sure.

So those were the emotions, like the emotion of you hearing somebody talking about you And I'm not an outwardly like say what.

You know what I mean?

But internally it's like, First of all, nigga, I don't even fucking know you.

You know what I mean?

And mind you, that's not the specific poor thing story.

Because to me poor thing, mad people hit me like yo.

Who you talking about in the third verse of poor thing?

It's like, bro, that's not even really important.

What's important is the emotion that I'm giving you.

Really, if you really want to know the truth, I combine a bunch of niggas into that last verse.

The punk bitch to give you the emotion that i feel, and that probably a bunch of people feel, when you hear somebody say something about you.

Like it's an instant triggering feeling and and, like you know, i'm not the hardest in the world, far from it, but i'm still a human and i'm still born and bred in this place where pride is like how you survive, damn near.

You know what I mean.

Like you have to carry a sense of like defensiveness and pride just to like make it through the day, maybe unscathed.

You know what I mean.

Or make it through the week unscathed.

But even if you carry that in your person, like when you're in Fayetteville As a fan, I feel like that's the first time I really heard you dial it up like that on a record.

That was one of my favorite songs because I was like, okay, Jermaine, this is like a different side.

That energy is not something we've gotten from you before.

But that's just me trying to give you a glimpse of like, how I feel, like that side does exist now.

And one at 29, it definitely existed more than it did now.

But even at 29, I knew what I know now, which is like, yeah, I might feel like this.

And my gut feeling might be like, Like in the moment, hearing that I was like man.

I wish I could see that nigga right now.

And like, let him say what he just told you in front of my face.

Cause one, he know he lying.

He don't, you know what I mean?

And two, he know he not like that.

This is my gut initial instinct.

Right.

And then there's a part that goes, it's not that serious.

Let him, you know.

Let him it's cool, like a lot, even if he's saying something about you that's untrue.

Like let him, even if he's saying something about you, that's true.

Let him.

You know what i mean.

What?

Like there's a, there's a adult in the room that comes and says, like yo, your initial instinct is not, is not worth it.

You know what i mean?

Because your initial instinct could lead to a movie that you've seen so many times.

Right, you know what i mean.

And on top of that, just on a spiritual level, it's like yo, what's that gonna do?

Like so i'm ramping it up on that verse to just give you insight.

Yeah, you never really got that from me, but it's like just to give you insight into like yo, that's how it feels, and i know people feel that and can relate to that.

Because it's like yo, that's that's.

You know, for better or for worse, that's a knee-jerk reaction to disrespect.

You know what I mean.

It's like a, it's a defensiveness.

Unwarranted disrespect.

You know, I think you pointed out like look, when I was broke and struggling and trying to piece it together, like I was on my own figuring that out, you know.

So for you to then come at me now when I'm doing like something good for myself, it's understandable, it's even as you say that i'm like.

So many instances pop in my mind, you know, from back then and even up to up until recently, where it's like bro, like you know i mean.

But but the the version of me now, the older me, actually knows more than what i knew back then, because now i'm like bro.

You gotta forgive them because look what's happening.

They going through something.

You know what I mean?

They going through something.

You don't know what type of pain and broken dreams and desperation and sadness is fueling whatever lie or whatever criticism or whatever.

You don't know.

I try to put myself in people's shoes.

At this age that got something to say about me.

When I'm like bro, I get it.

I hope that if I was in that same situation as you, I wouldn't make that decision.

But I can't really judge you for being in that situation and maybe making the weaker choice.

Because life is hard.

You know what I mean?

It's hard to always take the higher road.

Sometimes people just... fuck it, they just crash out, you know what I mean?

And it's like, all right, bro, if I gotta be the one you crash out on, all right, it's cool.

I can handle that and process that, you know what I mean?

And so, yeah.

Have you ever read The Four Agreements?

No, that's one of them.

Books that's like been laying around and people around me that I love have read it, and I've picked it up to read it.

People would tell me like, you seem like you read The Four Agreements.

Yeah, because don't take it personal.

No, no, no, I appreciate it.

That helps so much because like you said, when you get triggered, you get upset you internalize all of that but then when you try to reframe it i'm not saying it works every time right but you know like that's about you that actually has nothing to do with me the way that you're reacting and although you're talking about you know people in your hometown on that song just in a wider lens you've had to deal with that a lot in the industry you know what i mean like you talk about coming up and being this first generation of artists like growing up inside social media and always having to deal with people picking you apart, right?

That can really, really get in your head.

Like at what point do you feel like you got a handle on blocking that out as well?

Forest Hill Drive was my first great, great time of like, escaping.

That first step is like yo.

Just, you know, i had a rule when i was working on an album which is like yo don't, you can't go on social media.

That was the first.

That was a life-saving rule, you know what i mean.

And this next was like yo, everything you make, make it for you like, like don't, because there was a dark period where it was like yo, that for that uh, first album period um, I'm picking my snare drums.

Is this a hit snare drum?

I'm writing my lines.

Like, is this line gonna work in a club or at a show?

It's like, it was the worst.

So I had a rule, no social media and no, and when you make it, it's gotta be from a pure place.

So that was the first time I got it right.

So I've delicately balance that and maintain that there's been times in the past few years where it's like i might lean like, lean back and like poke my head more, and every time it feels disgusting, like it feels nasty, it's like, oh god, like i hate how i feel right now just even reading three minutes of that.

You know what i mean.

So like uh, I just kind of stay away.

The only thing is my most used app is YouTube.

So, like they've turned YouTube into oh no, disrespect to y'all outside of-, This will be on YouTube, don't worry.

All right, cool, cool, cool, cool.

But you know- the only thing is they turn YouTube kind of into like a social media feed.

You know what I mean?

Like I love to watch a good video on YouTube, you know what I mean?

But the way they got you scrolling, you can't escape passing some bullshit that just wants to like call you like some click bait.

You know what I mean?

Like.

So you know, even today it's like yo I do a pretty good job of like ignoring that stuff, which keeps me in like a good place.

But I do notice anytime I like bite or or or, can't resist the urge to like, just click that thing.

It's like, oh god, you always regret it every single time.

Yes, i feel like i know why, you know the phrase.

Like it's not a, it's not a new phrase, but it's definitely a true phrase.

Like comparison is the was it.

Comparison is the thief of joy, and i realize i'm like, oh one, i i know comparison is the thief of joy from my own personal experience, right anytime that i've been uh, in my life, growing up, and comparing myself to anybody else, what somebody else has, what somebody else does boom boom, boom.

It's gonna rob me of my joy instantly.

So like I knew that phrase for that, but I realized the internet is like it's all comparisons, like in the rap space.

I can only imagine like in some of these other space, basketball too, right?

In the sports space, it's all gonna put this person versus this person and we're gonna say which of these people is better and like it's not.

It's not just the thief of like that person's joy that that you might be talking about, it's actually the thief of everyone's joy, because now i have to pick this person, i have to choose.

I have to instantly get like, analyze flaws, or like or defend the person that I point and it's going to rob me of the joy of who that person really might be.

Perfect example, like Michael Jordan, LeBron James is a very simple analogy, but it's like, yo, if I'm a astute Michael Jordan fanatic, you know what I mean?

And I feel the need to defend his greatness with so many people in the sports world.

Sports is very similar to music, like in terms of, like the toxic nature of, like the space online, or the discourse or whatever.

But I feel the need, my identity is like, is kind of glued to like, I'm a Michael Jordan fan.

The instant that I feel the need to defend his value or his greatness against LeBron James.

The only way I can do that is I have to tear LeBron James down in some way.

I got to strike at one of his flaws, boom, boom, boom.

And what it does is mentally off rip.

I'm being robbed of the joy of experiencing watching somebody that's great play basketball, because I have to defend this thing.

And music is the same way.

It's like, yo, I'm going to compare this artist versus this artist.

No, worse, I'm going to compare this album from this artist versus this album from the same artist.

What if I just love both of these fucking albums?

Now you're forcing me just by the nature of the prop that you've given me.

You just slipped inside my head.

Now you're not forcing me, of course, but it's a slippery like way for me to go.

Damn, which of these schoolboy q albums is better?

You know?

I mean instantly i'm like well, what if i just love both them?

I don't need to necessarily like compare, and i feel like the whole internet ecosystem, whether it be music uh, sports or anything else, is driven.

The content is driven and rewarded by pitting thing A versus thing B.

It's exhausting.

It is.

Sometimes it's exhausting working in it, right?

You drop the fall off, what is it, 24 tracks, an hour and 40 minutes?

And by Monday, I should have some thoughts on the album.

And I'm like, damn, this is stressful.

We've been waiting a long time for this album.

It's a lot of music.

I need time to digest it.

But this system is entrenched.

It's like, how do you even separate yourself from it?

Which is why I've been amazed. watching your career over the past few years, right?

So I'm thinking about things in terms of the lens of like how do you know when to?

Here's an example when you were doing Power Trip, right?

So you recorded a version of the hook that you loved.

You felt really attached to that in the moment that you created it, but eventually your team convinced you like this would be dope, with Miguel on it, and it turned out to be a great song, right.

But then there are moments where, like, the BET Awards outfit that you hated.

I went back to, like, Google it.

It's jokes, that outfit.

It was terrible.

Yeah, it's like how do you block out all of the noise and know when to trust yourself and whose opinion to really value?

Because it's really hard sometimes to find the right move there.

Yes, that's a great question.

I think for me would just think about this too similar.

I think uh, for me, if i'm in a good, clear place right, if i'm doing the work, and i'm like staying present and and and staying in the moment, and i'm in a great place spiritually like, like you know, if i'm in that place, I got it.

You know what I mean?

I'm following me.

I'm never putting on that outfit in the first place because I would know that it doesn't resonate.

And I'm so in tune with myself that I know that, like yo, that shit feels I wouldn't even put it on because I could feel it when I take it off the hanger that this shit don't feel like me.

You know what I mean?

But if I'm in a bad place, I might throw that on.

You know what I mean?

Like, and I'm not even really paying attention to how I'm actually feeling.

So if I'm in a good place, You know, I feel like honestly I don't even really need opinions or help.

There are times when I'm maybe not in a great place.

Like and mind you, me being in a great place don't mean I'm fucked up on drugs, but it just might be like yo I'm on my phone too much.

Like, not necessarily social media, but I might be doing this YouTube thing too much.

I might be in my text too much.

I might be in the sports chat too much.

I had to get out the sports chat.

Cause I'm like, yo, it seems small, but it's like, yo bro, you got kids.

Like.

What are you spending your time in the sports chat for arguing about such and such and your kids is right over here.

Or why are you on your phone watching this thing?

So it's like, for me, That's what my version of like, oh, maybe I'm not clear looks like.

It's like, yo, I'm not fully present.

So in those moments when I'm not fully present and I've had enough time of not being fully present that shit gets cloudy.

Then I might lean on someone's advice because I honestly is like, yo, E, bro, what you think? he'll give his insight or whoever will give their insight and then i gotta gauge and be like all right cool i either gotta go do the work and sit with myself and be like and weigh all the options or i gotta trust that god has put people in my life that when i'm leaning a little uh a little too much out of the present moment like He says he can't reach me because my shit is cloudy.

My system is too cloudy for him to come through, be feeling like okay well, maybe he can, maybe he's going coming through somebody else.

You know what i mean.

And a lot of the times, like even today, like like yeah, today i was running late for this.

You know what i mean.

And i'm stressing because the reason why i was running late was the day kind of got ahead of me.

I was like i had some scheduled.

It went a little over boom boom, i got the flight tonight.

I'm thinking about all of this stuff.

I'm thinking about you.

I'm like, oh my god, the deska came all the way to the veil.

Like like I'm late, I'm mad late at this point.

Like I've got to pick a fit real quick.

Like, oh shit, let me grab a hoodie, boom, boom.

And I'm just thinking about how late I am.

And I'm also like, yo, I haven't done an interview in mad long.

I'm fucking kind of nervous about that.

So I'm telling my wife this, You picking a fit, by the way, is jokes because... I know.

It's like, what do I end up doing?

Sweatpants or shorts, whatever you're talking about.

It's so simple and easy.

But in the moment when I'm already stressing, it's like, ah, shit, is it this hoodie?

Is it these shorts or those shorts?

You know what I mean?

So she tells me, she's like, yo, she knows, one, I want to get to Fayetteville to do the interview.

I told her like, yo, I also need to meditate because I feel nuts right now.

Like I got a lot of shit coming up that she knows why I'm like kind of stressing about it.

Like, oh shit, I got a lot going on.

So I'm like, I got to get the favor.

I'm already late.

You know what I mean?

I'm throwing on this fucking fit and I want to do my meditation so I can at least be somewhat clear when I go down there.

She's like, And mind you what I'm probably going to do in that moment, had I not talked to her, I'm probably going to say fuck it.

I'm going to jump in the car, just drive, spend an hour driving, probably stressing.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, shit, I'm late.

You know what I mean?

But what she says is she's like, yo, you're already late.

You know what I mean?

You're already late.

It's cool.

Just go do your meditation.

You'll be late 20 more minutes.

You know what I mean?

Like go do your meditation.

You know what I mean?

And then you're late.

You know what I mean?

Like it's cool.

You don't wanna make it worse going down there stressed.

So in that moment, In a moment, a very simple moment, where it's like I wasn't even asking her for clarity or for an answer, but I feel like that's God speaking through her.

You know what I mean?

That's where you married her.

There you go.

Just be like, yo, bro, chill.

And it was just like, oh yeah, you're right.

And I did it and I felt way better.

I'm like, oh yeah, you're right.

Cool.

Did Eve not tell you, I said, it's all good.

We got your Krispy Kreme.

Like we can wait a few more minutes.

I saw that text after my meditation.

But by then I already felt amazing.

So I was like, all right, cool.

It just added to it.

Yeah, hearing you talk about meditation, I've wanted to like really try it, but I have not gotten there.

But I'm glad you have clarity because it feels like, especially with the fall off, You make decisions for you and maybe just for OG Cole fans.

Because dropping an album in 2026 with 24 songs an hour and 40 minutes, very few people would be brave enough to do that.

I think when you recorded Forest Hills Drive, there was a version that was a double disc.

You played it and you're like, this is too long.

So once it got to the fall off, you were just like, no, I'm going to go for it.

No, it actually happened the reverse.

Like it happened, like you know, like you said, Four Seals Drive was like a double disc at one point.

And then right, you know, towards the end, I'm like, oh, I'm bugging.

Like this shit is way too long.

You know what I mean?

And then we cut it down.

On this one.

At a certain point, You know, I was just like oh shit, I have all the.

I was trying, I was the opposite.

I was cutting too many songs that I've loved and felt passionate about.

I'm like, yo, nah, this shit don't make sense.

Like that's the fall off too though.

Like that is, that reaches the bar.

Like that's gotta be there.

And eventually I was just like yo.

I think this is.

I think there's two stories being told and I think this is a double disc project.

And I see it.

Because I think you asked earlier when that concept for Dis 29 when this was a single, when this was a 15 song album, the concept was more aligned was always in line with Dis 29's concept, which was like yo, it was a trip back home at the height of fame and i'm dealing with x, y and z, but it was not as microscopic, super hyper focused.

It was more interpretive, like how forest hill drive is, like i see the story of forest hill drive, like i see what's happening.

I don't know if anybody else does and i don't even give a, but i see like the movie in my mind and it's, but it's interpretive, it's not like, it's not like you listening to a step by step and then this happens and then this happens.

It's more like you know me, it's more like open for interpretation.

This, this 29, is like no, you can see it.

Just like you said, you see my homeboys sending the message, boom, boom.

The next thing you know, I'm back home for the funeral.

Then you see like, oh, he told me about such and such making a song.

So then poor thing comes on.

You hear me respond to that.

And you see me sending the text to the girl that like I've been knowing for a while.

And like, every time I come here, we got a little thing going on.

That's legacy, boom, boom.

Then you see me linking with my homeboys and you see us going to the club and you see us in the club.

You see the visual progression of this album up to the let out, this big climax moment, or whatever.

So the original non-double disc version was the same story, but a much more interpretive version.

It wasn't like, oh, then this happens, then this happens, then this happens.

It was like- So you wanted that space to be able to like really zero in on the story.

The more I started to work.

This is after Kendrick Dre Dreamville Fest.

I basically had to just gather myself first of all had to recover.

That shit was a big whirlwind of emotions at that time.

Did you have to meditate how you moved through that space?

Because that was one of the loudest experiences I've ever had in hip hop like just the fallout, all the conversation around it.

And I always wondered, What was going through your mind?

My part in it specifically.

Yeah, you were just watching like, because you had come off, you had this dope feature run.

You clearly had Might Delete later already ready to go.

We were building up to the fall off.

Cole fans were like, you can't tell us nothing right now.

We're outside.

And then, so you're on the stage at Dreamville Fest.

And I always wondered what was going through your mind in the five seconds before you made the apology, the five minutes, the five hours before.

Was it something that you had really thought of and planned?

Or did you get on the stage and felt like, I need to do this?

No, it hit me an hour before.

Okay.

But before that I was stressing the fuck out.

But in the moment that the idea came to me, like via God, it's like, oh man, I lifted and I got light and I got excited.

I got so excited because you know to tell you that two or three days before that it was, it was like, oh no, this is terrible, because i felt like i misrepresented myself, you know.

I mean it's like all of a sudden, i'm giving life to division into a negative comp, to negative uh storylines or negative perceptions on somebody that i with and got love for.

You know, i mean somebody that i like, care about, and it's like oh, in my mind, of course i mean i could take you back to you.

We know why that happened in the first place, but just to answer your question, that shit had me feeling terrible.

Cause I'm like, oh my God, like, This shit is nasty.

This shit don't feel right.

And of course, leading up to it, when I was doing it, it made sense.

Actually, I can't really say it made sense.

But in a moment where I wasn't clear, like we were just talking about, I chose to do something that didn't align.

It's like putting on the fucking outfit, the Versace sweater or whatever.

In a moment where I wasn't clear, I chose to... go this way for reasons that I could tell you about.

But all you need to know right now is like, yo, I was, I felt miserable about it.

Like literally, like my...

My whole demeanor, my whole shit, my wife could tell.

And so I'm like, oh my God, I got to go on the stage and like come out here and pretend almost.

Like people think that I'm representing.

Mike Delete Later had just dropped.

It's the biggest news.

Not saying Mike Delete Later is, but just the drama of all of this is the biggest news happening.

And I'm coming out as a representative of what the fuck they just heard.

It's like, ah, nah.

So an hour before it was like aha, like yo, in a, in a, in a very loud manner, you know, on a very public forum, on your album, you said some you didn't believe in.

Now you got the opportunity to go into a, a bigger form, you know.

I mean a bigger stage is being live stream, live stream and say something that you believe in.

And in that moment i'm like oh, thank you god.

Like i told my wife she's the only one, i told i ain't telling nobody else, i like yo, this one about to go dude, she start crying because she know, she know how I feel about him.

You know what I mean?

Like she knows.

And she saw how it was weighing on me the two, three days before that.

She could see in my whole energy.

And she would even ask me, and I'm just like, yeah, I got a lot going on right now.

So when I go and do it, I felt even better than I felt knowing I was gonna do it.

I felt like, if you'd have seen me that night, man, mind you, the demeanor of everybody around me.

I was just gonna say.

No.

Like, damn nigga.

Like like uh, my man Barry, from since the eighties, you know he he, he uh, earth gang, earth gang.

Yeah.

He'll always keep it real with you.

A hundred percent.

That's my nigga.

Like he he uh, but he just sitting there like he, like you're a good dude man, but he's almost disgusted about it.

Like, he's almost like, he's almost heard about it.

And if you would've saw me, I'm just like bro, like I feel amazing because now the world knows how I really actually feel.

But this is what is mind blowing to me right reaction that everybody had and we'll talk more like later.

Especially now, a couple years removed, people are still excited for the fall off.

It's like shocking that that even happened the place where we're at now.

But i'm amazed that you felt so good after doing that man.

You looked around and you're like i don't care.

I was so light and like and and, because i knew at the end of the day He heard me and the world heard me.

You know what I mean?

It's like, yo, if I never say another word on this again, like y'all see where I stand.

And it's like, yo, I made a, in my mind, I made a wrong or right in the best way that I could.

Yo, you did wrong.

You were in the wrong.

I put myself in the wrong.

Now mind you, in my mind, I had like justifications and how I thought it would go and boom, boom.

But in reality, when it actually played out, I was like, oh God, that was fucking stupid.

And now how do you make a wrong a right?

And that was, it just came to me like an hour before.

I gotta give you props for that.

You're a brave person.

It's like you said, yo, hip hop is, I love this culture, but it is scary.

You know what I mean?

The way people will come for you, like personally attack you for things.

Oh yes, the things people said after that were were you really just hanging out at a beach minding your business after this?

No, no, no.

But it was funny because I was actually at a beach just for like a couple of days.

I went to this little beach spot.

And so.

But mind you, I didn't know that the I guess a meme or whatever was going around saying that.

So people showing me like, bro, this is crazy. you're actually at a beach.

But it wasn't but mind you, to let you know though, because it kind of goes to what we were saying earlier.

But I didn't finish my thought where it's like I did what I did and I felt light free, like I had did the right thing for me.

You know what I mean?

I had made a wrong right.

However, like you know the world, they don't give a about that and they me up, like in terms of, like you know, they me up basically, like my name reputation boom, boom.

And so that was although, like you know the, the lightness that i felt made it easier to deal with over time.

I don't know how long that lasted.

It felt like a very long time, but it was like, over time, i had to process that and i had to, i had to get right because know, of course, at the time it felt like like the right move, and it always felt like the right move.

But there were times where the thoughts of like damn, you're done right now.

You know what i mean, like that's what the world is saying, it's over.

You know what i mean.

Like that that, not that it like uh, it wasn't dominant, but it was in my mind and it was like it brought up emotions and fears that i had to like, sit with and fight, and so a part of my reaction to that was Oh man, I'm leaving out a critical part of the story.

But you got some of your thoughts out on Port Antonio.

That was later that year?

Yes, but I'm leaving out a critical part of the story for you, in a sense that, like you said, I had Mike Delaney later and I had the fall off ready to go.

Yeah.

And the plan was dropping Mike Dilley later.

That shit was all, Mike Dilley later was always dropping at the spot that it dropped.

That was the date it was gonna drop, right before Dreamville Fest.

Of course that song, 7 Minutes Real wasn't on it.

It was the whole album minus that song.

And then I had the fall off coming like eight weeks later, mind you.

So it was like, you know, I had the fall off coming probably like two months after that, right?

Here's the asterisk next to I had the fall off coming.

I was finishing the album.

I was on tour with Drake and if you would've heard me talk about the fall off, probably for the four or five months prior to almost releasing the album, what you would've heard is me and E both this is my man you would've heard us talk about the fall off like this man, let's get this shit the fuck out and be done with this shit.

Come on, bro.

We had been working on it for eight years at that point.

So we were exhausted and the music was fire, but we were damn near over it.

You know what I mean?

Where it's like, yo, this shit is taking a long time.

It's like, let's put this shit out.

And I genuinely thought that I was like done.

Like how I feel now, like hella inspired.

Like I was not at that point.

I was like exhausted.

I had gave everything in my mind.

You know what I mean?

From the feature run to the off season, the mic delete later to everything that I had done.

My God, that was such a great.

That was an amazing time.

Just sorry to interrupt, to just be a J Cole fan.

Like you have to know like, sorry, continue.

No, I appreciate it.

I mean, I had the same amount of fun.

You know what I mean?

Like I enjoyed it that much too.

But they hit a stretch right before we were gonna put the album out where I was exhausted.

And I talked about the album negatively, like no lie, if you would have heard us you see me on stage with drake.

I think i used to do this part in the show.

I'd be like yeah, i've been working on this album.

It's almost done, but i'm like i've been working on something so long you can hear the pain, damn near my voice.

But i really genuinely was over it and i thought i was truly done because i couldn't write.

It was like three months stretch where i was like i couldn't write a verse and nothing worth, nothing worthwhile, and i had prayed And I was like God, let me know when it's time.

I had did that many times.

Like, yo, let me know when it's time.

Like when it's really time for this album to come out and it's really time for me to be done.

Let me know.

And I thought he was showing me that it was time because I was over it.

I couldn't write shit.

I thought like, yo, I guess I've said everything that I have to say.

And here it is, the fall off, and here go mic delete later, and I'm done.

So mind you, what happens, happens.

The world is fucking me up.

And in my mind, I'm like, I'm like, yo, they shitting on you right now.

Like, like everything you've built, you know what I mean?

Like, like everything you think you've built is like, yo, they just fucking you up.

You catching these hands from the world basically.

And, and how do you feel about that?

I mean, I'm in a good place, so it's not fucking with me too much, but damn, I am hearing it.

Might as well.

Not because I'm seeing it, I could tell, because at this point I had to even get off my YouTube because every other motherfucking video I just want to watch them documentaries and like but every other video that I see is like some shit, like about me, damn near.

So I had to get off that.

But I knew it was getting bad because people were calling to check on me and texting me to check on me.

Like, are you good, bro?

I would have done the same thing if I could have, yeah.

We were worried.

So mind you, mind you, I am good.

But I'm thinking in my mind like oh, they must be tearing me the fuck up because people are checking on me, like you know, as if they think I'm in a bad place.

You know what I mean.

False check.

So I'm asking myself, yo, how do you feel about this?

They fucking you up.

How do you feel about that?

I mean, obviously it don't feel good, but like...

But, you know, can you control any of that?

What's happening right now?

Nah, I can't control none of that.

No.

Did you ever come down here to this fucking beat machine right here?

Make a beat, write a song so that people that you never met in your life, or even if you met them in your life, would say great things about you at all times.

Is that why you actually came down here and did that?

And it was like, you know, I'm talking to myself.

It's like, nah, that's not why I did this.

Okay, why did you start doing this shit in the first place?

Why did you walk down those steps right there?

Thank God my parents let me, like, play this shit loud.

I used to have these speakers loud as fuck.

Make a beat on this beat machine.

Why did you do that?

And why did you sit here and write your first songs and your first raps?

Me and my man, Say, used to sit right in this room and write on Friday nights.

We'd just come down here and just write.

Why did you do that?

I did it because I loved it.

Like I genuinely like fell in love with doing it.

I was so excited about it.

Boom, boom.

Aha.

Next question.

This is a conversation I'm having with myself.

Maybe in a meditation, maybe after a meditation or whatever.

The next question is, aha, you did that because you loved it.

Do you currently love this shit right now?

Do you currently love it right now?

Mind you, that world is fucking me up.

Know what i mean.

I may be on that beach on that day, but i'm not on that beach like oh, i'm on that beach soul searching.

Yeah, you know what i mean.

Like yo, why did you ever do this in the first place?

Oh, because you, because you loved it.

Do you love it right now?

And i had, i had to, like sit there for a second and go like oh oh, my god like no, like mean i, i love it, but it's like yeah, you love it.

You say, but what are you doing that actively shows any love for this thing that you fell in love with you?

Don't listen to this, no more.

You don't even, you don't even want to do this, no more.

Like you talking about this album you've been working on for eight years.

Listen to how you talking about your own album man, let's get this the out man, and just be done man, and just go right off into the sunset bro, and just you know what i mean.

Like that's how you want to put out your last album.

Like I say all that to say, like that I didn't mention I should have led with this.

But when that shit happened and I did what I did on the dream real stage and the world was fucking me up, it was the biggest blessing I could have received.

No bullshit.

Because it led me to this conversation with myself right here where I was like, oh shit.

Like, nigga, that's how you want to go out?

Like you want to drop the fall off.

You've been working on this bitch eight years.

You want to go out feeling like, oh man, just get the shit out and just ride off.

Like that's, I don't give a fuck how fire the album is.

That's how you want to feel about it.

You want to feel tapped out and you can't write another verse.

And I was like, fuck no, I don't want to feel like that.

I was like, well, how do you want to feel?

Well, shit.

When I put out the fall off, I want to feel fucking inspired.

Like I can go do three more albums.

Like I don't want to, I hate how I feel right now.

Like this shit whack.

Like I don't want to be like talking about the album like this or like feeling like I ain't got shit to say.

All right then.

So can you control that?

Oh yeah, I can control that.

Oh, you've been here many times before, right?

Yeah, I have been in a space many times where I've had to like light my flame back and fall back in love with this shit.

All right, so you know what to do.

Yeah, I do know what to do.

But this time you gotta do it a little different.

Like don't do exactly what you did before.

So that conversation was such a realization for me, and it set me on a mission of like falling back in love with this shit.

And so too, I know I'm answering like four questions ago, cause I was-

Taking a roundabout way to get here.

But the reason why it became a double album is because I fell back in love with this shit and my pen got on fire over the course of the next few months.

I just became obsessed with this shit.

I felt like I was 16 years old.

And really what it came down to was spending time with this thing that I love listening to, this thing that I love listening to artists.

I would do this back in the days.

Like, if I get in a little funk, of course you gonna go play Reasonable Doubt, nigga, of course.

Like, you done been there mad time.

Of course you gonna go play Equimini, of course.

You gonna play Illmatic.

You gonna boom, boom.

Yeah, nigga, we know.

Man, I was listening to shit that I overlooked or never looked at, or lifted my nose up to or just never even heard about.

You know what I mean.

Or heard about, but vaguely checked out.

And this is all hip hop?

All hip hop, for sure.

And it was like, yo, when you was down here, you have to be in love with that shit.

What were you doing?

Man, I was listening.

I was immersed.

And once I had kids, it's like, yo, I'm not personally comfortable.

I'm very grateful.

I grew up in this house with my mom and eventually my stepfather, who had no regard for what the fuck I heard or watched.

You know what I mean?

Like I got a stepfather who put me on the pot at six, seven years old.

Thank God I can't do that.

Like, like I can't play you know what i mean.

Like i can't play that for my kids.

And, by the way, pop was maybe one of the best he played.

It was like you know yeah, iced tea albums, you know what i mean cube albums.

It was straight gangster rap.

And i'm grateful though, because i got i'm riding to school with pour out a little liquor, playing like every day.

I'm 10 years old.

I started young kicking dust man living rough.

You watch your mouth around my mama.

You couldn't cuss man.

I had, like i had that experience.

I I'm not comfortable yet and I don't know if it's right or wrong.

I'm not judging myself or anybody else for what they do, but I'm not comfortable playing my favorite songs around my kids yet because the content you know what I mean.

It's sexual, it's violent, it's boom, boom.

I'm the same.

That's why it's so hard when albums drop on Friday and I have to have an opinion Monday.

When am I supposed to do that with two little kids running around?

There you go.

It's stressful.

So I found myself not to cut you off, but I found myself in a place where I hadn't been, music hadn't been an active part of my daily life, like it was before I had kids.

I heard that and I love her again.

There you go.

That's, that was my life.

You know what I mean?

Like I didn't realize that like, yo, I was so distant from it.

And once I came back to it intentionally and I started taking these, like you know, four day trips to get some solitude because that's another thing I learned in that experience is like oh shit, I should know this by now because I've been doing it so long.

But I realized, like yo,

I'm lethal and at my best when I have solitude.

When I can wake up, I go to sleep making a beat, flipping a sample, chopping a sample.

I go to sleep and if I'm in a hotel room by myself or in an apartment by myself, I'll get tired.

I'll just close the laptop with the beat right where it was go to sleep, wake up in seven or eight hours on the dot, open my eyes, open the laptop, back up and press play and start working on a beat.

This is the shit that I was doing when I was a kid.

And you learned that after a sideline story, right?

Didn't you realize you recording in that space is what you needed, and not being forced to go to the studio and be around people and try to figure it all out?

Yes.

It's funny how we have to learn the same lessons sometimes over and over.

For them to stick.

You know what I mean?

Because I didn't have kids at that point.

So it's like I had to relearn that lesson with kids.

It's like yo.

It's probably more productive for you to take a two-day, three-day trip where you could be alone and write.

But all of that to say in that stretch of that summer and that fall and just since then, I've been so in love with this shit and so inspired.

And that's why the album became a double album, because songs like I Love Her Again, or What If?

Or Quick Stop or 39 Intro were born from this re-ignition of my pen.

So then it became like, yo, How the fuck could I leave these off?

How could I shed this down?

That would be untrue.

That'd be like Stevie Wonder making songs in the key of life.

I would, man, thank God that shit didn't drop today.

Can you imagine if songs in the key of life dropped a double disc and people had to like spend a Friday night at 12 o'clock listening to all of these songs, just to be like how does shit feel long?

It's songs in the key of life.

Like was he supposed to city have picked the best?

All of them hits?

No, but they all valid.

They all got you this classic.

You know what i mean.

Like and of course you you take the ones you want and you put them in your pocket.

But that doesn't diminish the, the greatness and the effort in the zone he hit when he was making that album that birthed those songs.

But we live in a generation where it's like first of all, i hate the album drop at 12 o'clock.

Why the album?

You wouldn't disrespect a movie like that.

Imagine if you had to go see a movie but you could only see it at 12 midnight.

If you wanted to be first to see it, you had to go 12 midnight on a Friday night.

Like, niggas is tired by 12.

Like yo, I'm grateful anybody to listen to my shit 24 songs on the first night at 12 o'clock and made it through.

Thank you.

Like, and if you didn't, I don't even blame you.

It's 12 o'clock at night.

You know what I mean?

So like that shit bothers me.

I'm doing a lot of rambling.

You know what I mean?

Like I said, it might be another 15 years till we talk again.

So we got to, but I'm glad you didn't cut.

This too, because a lot of my favorite songs are on this too.

39 Intro.

Okay, there's no way I was wondering.

I was like, he must have recorded this after all of that happened.

The line about, you know, they're trying to put my neck in a noose.

It's not happening.

But also that song is so funny because I turned it on.

I was like, okay.

Okay, Cole's on his apparently right now.

We're singing, we're singing.

Where is this going?

I thought the whole song was going to be like that.

I was like, this guy is like funny.

He's just going for it.

You do not care at this point.

And then the beat switches and I was like, oh, this is one of my favorite Cole songs of all time.

It's like, this shit is just so effortless.

It feels like you were sitting in this chair the way you are right now, kind of slouched down, just rapping the second half of that song.

And like the flow is crazy.

That's one of the songs that unlocked the album for me.

You know, like certain songs just hit and you're like oh, now I can like go back and start from the top again.

Amazing.

I appreciate that.

The first half of that song has existed for a while.

And it's one that like was the intro at one point.

That was how I was starting.

The entire album at one point was with with Magnus.

We just called it Magnus.

Magnus had a second half with a beat.

When we were making it we got some footage too.

I seen the other day of us making it, and while we were making it I'm like oh, this would be hard if uh if, right at this point we and we got some hard-ass beat boom, and for a while that, the hard-ass beat that we had there, I ain't like it was too generic to me, like it was too, was it was hard, but it was like too current, damn near, you know what i mean.

And and so eventually magnus, because i didn't like the second half, it kind of fell by the wayside.

Sadly though, it's one of those songs i'm like i wish i could have a home for it.

And then in the, in the, when my pen was ignited on one of these trips i did, I wrote 39 Intro.

Matter of fact, I wrote it.

One of these conversations with E where we were structuring the album and trying to figure out, like maybe, what could start this 39.

He was like, yo, it could be maybe Magnus.

But he was like, yo, I just feel like we need like a harder second half.

Like, cause I know you don't like that other second half.

I'm like, yo, I did write this shit the other day.

Let me like...

Let me play it for you.

I think I had a voice note or something that I recorded.

And I played it for him.

Mind you, I almost never even played this for him.

You know what I mean?

No lie.

I'm so glad that these conversations happened.

This be God.

Like I promise you, so many moments of the album were like this, where it's like oh, if you didn't have that conversation or if you didn't wait an extra week to do this, you would have missed out on that song.

So I just thought about when he said that.

I'm like, oh, yo, I did do this shit the other day over this vinyl beat.

Like, let me play it for you.

I played him a voice note.

And he was like, nigga, what?

You know what I mean?

He was like, nigga, you just had that?

I'm like, yeah, I just did it when I went to New York.

Like I was working with vinyl.

I wrote this shit.

He was like, nah, bro, that's it.

Like, so I went and recorded it.

Um, and, and then, and I'm like, at that point, I'm like, please work.

You know what I mean?

In my mind, I'm feeling like it's going to work.

I'm feeling like it's the missing piece that we've been waiting on for that back half of Magnus.

But you never know until you play it.

And we listened to the full Magnus and it went to .

And it was like, oh my, you know, so that's, that's how that came.

That almost never happened.

That's so crazy.

You know, even before you dropped the fall off on like Birthday Blizzard, you did mention so, like you said.

Getting back to this point where you felt like passionate again, you mentioned like look, I felt like that apology dropped me out of the top three, but the sentiment was now it gives me space to kind of climb back up again on my own terms.

Basically, it feels the opposite of what you were going through after Forest Hills Drive, where you were like man.

I'm feeling so comfortable.

Wow.

That's right.

I could just get stuck here and now you're in the opposite spot here.

Yes, that's real.

I absolutely felt like that.

I was grateful.

Like I told you, like once I realize that like, oh wait, you're not in love with this shit no more.

You about to leave this shit, put out an album in a real whack ass place.

And once I caught that and like, did something about it and like fell back in love, like actively, I was always grateful.

Cause I felt like there was a lesson in it somewhere.

I just had to find it.

And once I found a lesson and like actually did the work, I was actually grateful for that.

Like, oh man, this gives me like a mountain to climb.

You know what I mean?

It was a point, honestly, doing them, me and Eve used to talk about that.

It was a point doing them features that feature run when I'm just smoking shit and my pen was just on fire.

It was a point doing that shit where it didn't even feel too cool because it was like yo people that are normally like haters.

They didn't have much to say.

It was almost like they and that felt honestly.

It felt disingenuous a little bit.

Like it almost felt like like that's not the plan.

I like to be like up against a wall.

You know what i mean.

Like i like to be like my my, my comfortable position is like climbing up a hill.

I like being doubted.

You know what i mean.

Like you got what you asked for.

I didn't ask for it, though i didn't ask for it wasn't until like, We weren't talking about it at the time, but it wasn't until I got doubted again did I realize how much I appreciated being doubted.

Cause it gave me something to like climb up to, you know what I mean?

So that line is like, you know, that was really how I was feeling.

I'm like, oh nah, this is cool.

Like this gives me something to jump and try to reach.

And, mind you, this shit just be happening in my head, but it's the type of stuff that like, I think about.

I mean, is that still on your mind now with the fall off?

Like out this big three.

It's like you've had your relationships with Kendrick and Drake stretched back years.

You know what I mean?

I don't know what it is.

It's like with you guys now.

I mean, first of all, those is dudes that I admire these dudes.

I got genuine love for these dudes.

Like I hate to see the world. shit on either one of them in defense of the other.

You know what I mean?

It's like, bro, that shit is, even saying it out loud is a little silly.

Well, at the end of the day, I'm glad you made the decision that was right for you.

Appreciate it.

You know what I mean?

That you feel good and you could sleep well at night.

And then you make an album that you love and you're proud of and has so many dope full circle moments, like Erykah Badu being on The Villas when you sampled her on 2D for the intro.

That's a moment.

Even at the end of Four Souls.

Drive you going on your little rant about sampling.

I'm going to take you all to the Supreme Court.

And now, in the fall off, You sampled some amazing classic 90s hip hop songs.

I feel like you got it off.

Yes.

And thank you to James Taylor.

Thank you to everybody that approved the sample, but really James Taylor for that intro, because I was scared and nervous that that might not happen.

Because that's the most left field one.

And I want to shout him out because I had to like...

Sent him a text, he was really nice.

You know what I mean?

And I didn't hear back after a while.

So I was nervous like, damn, maybe this shit won't happen.

So shout out to James Taylor for that.

Shout out to everybody that approved.

Andre 3000, big boy, they approved that hook.

That was a big moment.

He got to hop on FaceTime or some Zoom call with Andre.

He said he was like, I don't know where the fuck he was, Germany or something.

Playing the flute somewhere.

Yeah, probably with a flute, and got to play him the song because everybody got to approve their parts.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot of Devin the Dude.

Shout out to Devin the Dude.

These are people that had to approve their parts, and I'm appreciative for that.

Yeah, I'm glad you got the production off and you got to come outside and, you know, do the trunk sale.

Like that started way back with like the come up.

It's nice because I know you're a little bit of a hermit that you got to also like come out and interact with fans like that.

That must've been a dope way to wrap up this chapter of J. Cole.

Yes, that was cool.

It was more than cool.

Only because I'm what is it?

Three, four weeks removed from it, would I even respond as calmly as I just did and say, oh yeah, that was cool.

No, that was amazing.

You know what I mean?

If I really put myself back to being in it.

Like it's me and my actual homeboys that used to ride in this actual car riding around seeing people in person.

I can't imagine had I dropped this album and just do what I've done on the last however many, which is like yo I just dropped these albums and I just go live my life.

And it's like, yo, I don't really do much.

And I can't imagine if I would have did this the same way because I would have missed the real life.

There's a clip that we got in Atlanta.

I'm glad we caught it on camera.

But it was like a dude that just pulled up to the, he was on Bankhead.

And a dude just pulled up to the store and he was just playing safety out of his car.

And that happened so many times that we didn't even catch it on camera.

Where it was like, yo, we just really in the world.

I'm in the wild.

You know what I mean?

The album just dropped me like you catching people playing it.

And those are experiences that I wouldn't have got just staying at the house.

And I might have had zero gauge on how people feel about this shit.

Cause how would I have?

I'm in the house.

Other than YouTube, you know what I mean?

Like a YouTube headline.

It's like, I wouldn't have had nothing.

So I'm grateful I got to do that.

And you know, thank you to the people for the love.

Thank you to you for letting us close out this chapter of J Cole.

If this is really officially the end of it, as you say, I'm sure you're still gonna release music.

Yeah.

And we know you had that project.

It's a boy.

You've talked about wanting to rerelease the sideline story with like songs that you recorded that time that you didn't really.

There's a lot of things that you could give us if you so desire.

Yeah.

You reminded me of stuff that I have to go do and then I gotta go finish.

But, but yeah, I don't know what it is.

I ain't gonna lie.

Like, um, I'm inspired.

I'm in an inspired place, but not necessarily to make an album.

You know what I mean?

I want to produce.

If my pen is inspired.

Still, I would love to do a verse here and there, but I definitely don't feel like I felt two years ago, where I was like man, let's get this shit out and be over with.

I feel the opposite of that.

I wish I had more time to dive in and work, basically.

You know what I mean?

It's like I'm kind of in a life mode right now where I'm back on my my normal life schedule, but I'm looking forward to those moments of diving back in.

And I don't know what'll come out, you know what I mean?

No pressure from us.

You just gave us 24 tracks.

We can sit with this.

You got a world tour coming up.

So, you know, thank you for getting out of the house and letting us in your house.

You just reminded me right now.

Got six more tours.

But no, thank you for coming all this way.

Appreciate y'all.

Appreciate you.

[J. Cole: Returning Home, Finding Clarity, and the Mission of 'The Fall Off']-[J. Cole： The Fall-Off Album Interview at Home in Fayetteville ｜ Apple Music]

📋 Summary

The Journey to 'The Fall Off': A Return to Creative Clarity

The Quest for Creative Solitude

Navigating Public Scrutiny and Personal Growth

The Philosophy of 'The Fall Off'

Looking Toward the Future

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[J. Cole: Returning Home, Finding Clarity, and the Mission of 'The Fall Off']-[J. Cole： The Fall-Off Album Interview at Home in Fayetteville ｜ Apple Music]

📋 Summary

The Journey to 'The Fall Off': A Return to Creative Clarity

The Quest for Creative Solitude

Navigating Public Scrutiny and Personal Growth

The Philosophy of 'The Fall Off'

Looking Toward the Future

Deep Learning with ListenLeap

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

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