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Hello. Today, we're excited to share the latest episode from one of our favorite podcasts and another Lemonada show, The Deep Dive with June Diane Raphael and Jessica St. Clair.
I have had the pleasure of being a guest on this show and these two women really know how to make me laugh.
Each week, these comedians and best friends take a deep dive into their real lives and discuss a wide range of issues.
In this episode, Jessica is on the lookout for sharks and June is avoiding crows.
Plus, there's chat about big dinosaurs, white on white cars, oral historians, and Jessica and June's experiences working for the mafia.
Not sure exactly what that means?
Listen now to find out.
Hi, I'm Jessica St. Clair.
And I'm June Diane Rafiel.
and this is the deep dive.
We're about to do what women have done for centuries.
We're crowding around the fire with our generous haunches.
We got babies hanging off our tits and we're going to share with you our fears.
That's right. Our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.
Now Jess, we are heeding a call that no one has made.
Not us all, but you're invited to listen.
Absolutely. Because we make one promise and one promise only.
We will not Google a thing.
Because frankly, we're too damn tired.
Please get ready to go on The Deep Dive.
Hello, Jessica. Hello, June.
I feel like it's, I don't know, time is moving in the strangest of ways.
Is it Christmas? Is it July?
I've been waiting. I've been packing to go on a trip that's not for another month.
So I don't know. I'm in a liminal space right now.
It is very hard to be alive right now.
I feel so assaulted by information.
I feel so overwhelmed and sad sometimes by what's incoming, right, in the news.
However, I want to just be with you and talk about things right now because I'm happy to see you.
I'm so happy to see you too.
And I'm not sure why this is regulating my nervous system, and I don't think it's for everybody, but every June, July, and August, I am on a constant shark attack watch. Really?
I don't know why. I don't know why, but my feed, and I didn't even click on anything this time.
My feed gets flooded with just packing lists for France and shark attack, local shark attacks.
And I find it really comforting to— To know that sharks are attacking?
To read the stories of really 99 % survival.
People fighting back sharks.
That's wonderful. Yeah.
Most of the shark attacks are curiosity bites, which are, you know— Episode title, note to self, okay?
pay. Now how do they know that also?
Like there's some things where, I want to talk to you about crows and I'll talk to you about it in a second, but there are things about animals that people state as facts and sometimes like, now how do you know a shark's curious?
Well, because if they're not curious, they just want to eat you, they will.
So like a man's on his surfboard, it always happens where it's, they're on their surfboard, often right where my brother surfs and they'll They'll feel a bump under their surfboard and then, like a bite, a nibble on their surfboard. But if it wanted to, it could clean bite through a surfboard and his leg.
And then they swim away.
I guess it's not that different from dogs and the sort of warning shots fired, which is just like, I don't know, it's curiosity.
That's more like, I'm going to growl at you so I don't have to bite you, motherfucker.
Well, I don't mean to sit, come in in the opposite way.
I've just done so much research. And I will say that mostly they're trying to see, is this food?
Is this a seal? No, I move on.
Is this edible? It's more like when you taste a little cracker and you think to yourself, I want to eat more.
It's like, I guess what I'm wondering though, is like 99 % so that's implying like they're just biting the surfboards.
Like they haven't broken any skin because if they broke skin, Again, I would assume they'd know this is food, actually.
We're not food to them, though.
We are mostly food.
Oh, say more. Say more.
We don't have enough fat on us.
It's the Ozempic craze.
It's moved us. We don't.
We really don't. And what's so amazing is I always text my brother, like, with everything going on right now, you know, in the world, in our family, like, please, I cannot handle you getting eaten by a shark.
and he is always like, just so you know, like, great white shorts, I misunderstood.
Like, I just, I'm having dinner with one right now.
Like they're very different people.
Like, he's always like, yeah, I just like, I served next to one and we connected.
Like he's always protecting them and their image.
And I really am like, that's exactly the type of person that's going to get chomped by one.
You know, I just am like, I just don't want to wake up to that call because I feel like that could probably be avoided you know but anyway yes of course sometimes they chomp down on your leg or something but they're really they're not gonna eat you they don't want to eat you once they chomp down on that gristle it doesn't feel good to them it's like god if that's not motivation to keep hitting the gym and to keep on upping my weights and stay you know stay in my bones although i'm actually worried i'm creating so much muscle that's gotta taste I don't think it does.
They're looking for fat.
They're looking for fat and blubber.
They're looking for blubber.
Yeah. So anyway, but that's, I don't know why that's right.
But then of course I sent that to Lennon like, oh, back on my shark attack.
And she's like, I'm at a vacation at the beach. Don't send that to me.
Don't send that text to me.
And I also feel like, I think I've been told that climate change is why there seems to be more.
Oh, that's upsetting.
Well, they're juveniles, especially are coming closer to shore.
Because it's warmer.
It's something that I honestly can't take on as a concept.
Like I have to go in the ocean.
I am a water person.
Yeah, of course. It's not stopping me.
I was in the ocean.
Great. Wonderful. And I have to kind of put it away.
I got to put sharks away as an idea.
Or not. I mean, here's the thing.
It so rarely happens.
I was in the beach. I was in the water with Laguna Beach. this weekend and I saw a bunch of very attractive lifeguards.
There's so many attractive young people there in thong bathing suits.
And these were in the red, the signature red Baywatch, but they all started, there was a commotion and they all started running.
And I said, ooh, baby, maybe it's a shark.
Like, I'm excited by it.
I don't, I would have loved if there was a shark sighting.
I would love you to, I know we keep talking about my best friend, Julie, And she did listen to the podcast, I don't know if it was last week.
Or we did a full like half an hour.
You did, okay, great.
But I don't know if you know this about her, but no one's more scared of sharks than her.
No, it is her greatest fear.
It is her greatest fear in life.
It is her greatest fear in life that she encounter a shark.
Really? Yes. Where did it start?
I think it started with Jaws.
And in fact, when we went to go see Jurassic Park or Jurassic whatever the new one is.
Jurassic World. This weekend.
And there was a preview for, like, it's 50 year anniversary, I think, of Jaws.
Wow. And so there's a re -release to celebrate.
And I was like, Paul, we have to take the kids to see this in the theater.
Yeah. So many good jump scares.
That's all it is. Oh, it's a movie about jump scares.
It's a brilliant, brilliant movie about what we don't see and what lurks beneath and the fear of not being able to see.
It's so fucking well done.
It is. But anyway, and considering that Mechanical Shark broke so many times.
No, knowing what they didn't have in terms of production values, CGI, all of it.
It is a masterpiece.
piece. So I said, we got to go see it.
He's like, I'm not really, I don't really want to unlock that fear in the kids.
And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
And then I remembered Julie and I was like, yeah, it could, it could absolutely trigger a lifelong fear.
You don't, that is the truth.
I say to BB all the time, do not watch a scary movie because you don't know what your Your silence of the lambs is.
That's right. Now, Sam, the other night, he woke up in bed with us and he said, I had a terrible nightmare.
I'm really, really scared.
And I said, of what?
And he said, Megan.
Well, I was just about to bring up Megan.
No. Okay, because Bebe watched half of Megan through the slats on a plane.
Oh, fuck. And she goes, oh, I'm not worried about it.
She goes, I'm not worried about dolls coming to life and killing me because I don't believe in them.
Now, I unfortunately watched Through the Slats, Companion.
Oh, I haven't seen that.
Where he, like, gets a fuck AI doll.
Yeah, no, thank you.
And then she fucking turns on everyone, and they keep shooting her in the face, and it doesn't stop her.
She doesn't go. Well, I— She ends up with the house and the convertible.
She kills the whole—she kills everybody.
everybody and well that i'm interested in actually i do like scary movies but the thing is that so as i said sam i i you didn't see megan and then i realized during jurassic oh jurassic world there was a preview for megan oh this is a fucking kids movie now during jurassic work i held his eyes or maybe it was f1 i don't whatever movie we saw we've been seeing all the summer movies It's been so much fun.
It's a blockbuster summer for the Shears.
It's so fun. It has to be.
We love going to see a movie.
I know you do. We're single -handedly keeping our industry afloat.
Yeah. So I put my hands over his eyes, but even through, talk about the slaps.
The sounds. Even through, yes.
And again, to reference Jaws, it was what he didn't see but heard her voice.
Oh God. It'll haunt you.
Explain. Yeah, and then the next night he said, can I sleep with you?
And I said, why? He goes, I'm thinking about Megan.
I said, yeah, you can.
Yeah, well, you know what your husband did to me once, which was, I'll never forgive, and I'll post it on the Academy, but that motherfucker had me on his early Twitch, you know, back in the days where he was a pioneer of Twitch. Yeah, he was one of the founders, I think.
Truly. He had me on with Rob Hubel, and they said, hey, it wasn't even Halloween.
All right. Oh, I want to do a little game, a guessing game.
I said, oh, okay. I'm game for anything.
And then he showed me pictures of every pinhead, Freddy Krueger, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
He wanted to know, do I know who it is?
And what did they do?
Jess, I'm so sorry.
No, and he thought, and the, you know, even Hubel, even Rob was like, oh, I didn't realize you were so scared.
and he's delighted by it.
He really is. He's delighted about torturing me and, you know.
I know. He gets a sick thrill out of scaring women.
Women that he cares about mainly.
Yeah, he would just go, it's Pinhead.
It's just Pinhead. Like, I still don't know what Pinhead does, but like, he's like, oh, don't worry, it's Pinhead.
Your old pal Pinhead.
He kept saying it. I was like, fuck you.
And I really, people don't get it.
Like, on a How Did This Get Made tour, Or like, Jason started doing that and I was screaming, you know, and then a really nice audience member in the balcony like asked a really thoughtful question, but then ended it with, it rubs a little shit on the back like that.
And I screamed, I'm gonna punch you in the dick, sir.
I'm gonna come up there.
Punch you in the dick.
People don't get it.
So Sam is built like me.
He is not built like Paul.
He cannot handle it.
And Gus is built like Paul because the other, when we were going to see F1, we went to see it at Mann's Theater in Hollywood.
It's so much fun. What a beautiful historic theater.
And as we're getting out of the, like we're walking now on Hollywood Boulevard. When am I ever walking on Hollywood Boulevard?
Is it going through Times Square?
So we get down the stairs and we turn to like walk on Hollywood Boulevard toward our Chinese Men's Theater and fucking the clown Pennywise.
Pennywise is standing there and I know this is an audio medium but everyone just pull your the finger that's next your pointer finger out and turn it around so your palms up everyone do this with me and then just slowly gesture to someone to come closer to you and that's what he did to me okay and I was like Like, nobody look at him, nobody look at him.
And Gus walked over to him and smiled right back.
No, see, that's, and that's, he's built just like Paul.
He is. Now, for some reason, and we still don't know why, and I really wish we'd taken them up on it.
The producers of it wanted to buy our movie about going, traveling back in the olden days and falling in love with an olden days person.
Or time travel. And we went and we were like, that's crazy, why?
And during the meeting, there were so many tiny It dolls peering because there's so much It merch. And so I would be trying to focus on the meeting and then I would see a little It peering behind a trash can and like peering out from the bushes.
And I did ask him, I said, are you ever scared on the set?
And the guy looked at me like, first of all, what are you talking about?
Like, I produce harm.
No. And he said, Jessica, just so you know, when that there's a scene in it, I guess, where the door handle is jiggling, like because it's trying to come in.
He goes, there's a P .A.
behind there munching on flaming hot Cheetos and checking his Instagram and jiggling the door.
That's his job. He's like, so no, I'm not.
I'm not scared. So I'm just going to tell you though that, you know, I don't know if you know this, but Paul got an audition to play the new Pennywise in this past version of it.
Wait, to play Pennywise?
Pennywise. Okay. And he's like, can you read with me?
And this was years ago.
No, no, no. And I was like, oh, yeah, I didn't really understand what we were doing at first. And then I some greet, he prints out the sides for me, prints it out for himself.
And then I'm looking at it and the scene we have to read is motherfucking Pennywise peering out of like the bottom grates of a subway, like lifting up the, like, you know, in New York, there's like this, like, or you can hear the subway.
He's peering out and talking to probably a little girl.
And I get two lines in, and I just said, fuck this.
I ain't doing this shit.
And you're not auditioning for this.
And he was like, come on.
No, and he thought it was fun.
That's the thing. And he's smiling.
Come on, June. I can't do this.
I won't read this with you.
June. You won't audition for it.
It's just Pennywise peering out of a subway grate and talking to a little girl and trying to get her to come down here so she can kill her.
What's wrong, June?
Sick stuff. Tough. Jessica, I have to tell you about the crows.
I can't wait. And I don't know why.
Is it spooky season?
I don't know what's going on.
No, I don't want it to be.
It's summer. It's summer, but this is a very spooky episode.
I got to tell you about the crows that I'm dealing with.
Please. And I'm going to tell you what's going on with them in just one second.
We'll take a quick break.
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How those ahead, stay ahead.
head. So Jess, there are, um, crows in Vancouver.
Okay. That have been, and I know this because my spray tan artist came up to my apartment a few weeks ago, probably a month ago.
And she goes, I was, oh my gosh, I just, have you seen all the attacks down there?
Wait, no, what? I said, what are you talking about?
And she said, oh, the crows are dive bombing people below you.
Why? Why? I said, what the fuck are you talking about?
She said, yeah, they're attacking people's heads.
Why are they? And they're running.
I'm sorry, I don't understand.
And I said, you gotta be mother fuck, I won't leave this apartment again.
It's a fucking series wrap on me.
I'm done. I'm done.
Why are they trying to attack people?
So apparently it's like, I don't know if it's mating season.
I don't know what's going on.
But they're, I think, aggressive at this time of year and are either protecting their, something's happening with them.
and I said the last thing I want to fucking do is interact with a crow no and she's like yeah it was really spooky like some people are walking with umbrellas well I would I wouldn't even I would have somebody like take me in an armored car thank you Jess I don't want to be attacked by a by a and I said I'm never going outside and I'm I'm actually really upset.
It's so fucking beautiful out.
I can't go. I can no longer experience the outdoors.
How could you? Because I won't leave. How could you knowing that at any minute they could attack you?
I said, are they here?
Are they just here?
I hope there's video of it.
I hope there's video of it.
There is. I'll post it on the Academy.
I said, are they just here?
And she said, they're everywhere.
I'm like, oh, my God.
And so then I go to work the next day.
I'm asking the hair and makeup folks.
My friend tells me that he experienced this in another place.
He's like, yeah, I used to run with this other actor in the mornings and there were crow's dive bombing.
And so he would wear, get ready for this.
He would wear his hat backwards so that the rim was in the back and then put a pair of sunglasses in the back.
No, no, no. To create, like, a mask.
No, no, no. So if they were going to attack, they'd attack the back.
I said, what in the fuck are you talking about?
We're living in this world?
We're all— I'm talking about deep state.
Someone's keeping this information down.
Like, I'm going to be eyes up now about these presents.
Thank you. Because there's a lot around here.
And then another one of the makeup artists said, well, you know they remember faces.
Oh, yeah. They can say to each other, look, there's the bearded man.
They can communicate that specifically.
I have to ask, how do we know that sharks are curious?
How do we know that crows remember faces?
I don't know. They've done lots of experiments with crows.
They are obsessed with knowing how smart crows are.
I don't know why. We're not harnessing it for any reason.
But they study constantly how they are like the most smart animal, like, you know, in the world.
I want to make a public service announcement.
I know that a lot of you deep divers are going to start DMing me because you all are so quick on the draw.
You start DMing me information.
Like when I said that blonde men were silly billies, you start DMing me about the blonde men in your life and this and that.
And I know what's going to happen is I'm going to start getting— Are people going to be pro -crow advocates?
I'm going to start getting tons of info about crows.
And I'm going to say right now— They do love to link an article.
they love a link they do and it's always like please share this with June and I'm like you think I'm gonna like actually have any kind of memory to share this with her but they do share a lot of Neanderthal news with me which is great a lot of Neanderthal news comes in like there's a lot and some of it's so fucking wonderful but on this particular subject I am going to ask to stay in the dark about the crow dark about what crows know and what they can do and what they can't do hold on one second Jess I am so sorry Jessica I have just I just took a two second break folks because I had to I had
a smoothie being delivered you love a delivery not to brag you get a little no straw oh god damn it well we'll be hearing about this on the deeper dive, unfortunately.
I had a lot of other topics, but now we're gonna be hearing about no straw.
How am I to drink this viscous liquid?
It's a different - Without - Liquid without a straw.
It's a different experience.
Do I go get a spoon?
This is absurd. Oh, God.
Anyway, what I wanted to tell you about the crows is, so then I was told, again, don't wanna, just gonna share what I know, and I'm very comfortable not knowing anymore.
And I told the hair and makeup team, I said, I'm not going to be interacting with a crow.
I don't want to know about crows.
I'm done. And they told me that something had happened with a crow on a different set in Vancouver, that a crow was killed.
Oh, God. Don't be too upset.
I'm not upset. Oh, wow.
No. They also said that the other crows were out for blood.
Okay, so a crow had been killed by accident on a set, and then the other crows came for - Again, all of this information might be wrong.
Yeah, but it came - Something in that order.
There will be blood.
There will be blood.
I'm at these studios I'm at, so to know I'm both a target at my apartment because there's a whole fucking nesting ground down there, and they're coming after actors?
We have enough problems. The scarcity of roles, the shrinking industry, and now fucking crows want us dead?
Like, I honestly can't.
Like, I can't. I can't take that on.
Oh, my God. The crows were like after them.
I get that. Well, if they're so complex in their relationships and all of this.
And, you know, Bebe and I tried to rescue a baby crow that was on our driveway.
And it was like... Don't just let him go.
And I said... I'm sorry to say it.
But you know us. You know us.
Bibi has jumped out of the car while it's moving to like check to see if a dog is, you know, not lost. So I called because all of the crows were in this tree screaming like that.
So I was like, oh my God, they don't know how to pick this sad crow up.
And I called the ASPCA and they said, that's actually how they teach their young to fly.
They kick it out of the nest and then they scream from the trees, get up.
They're screaming, get up to it.
How do they know that those screams are get up?
I mean, again, I know you're saying they do research. This just seems so specific.
Listen, they're fucking nasty.
Yeah, they're nasty, all right.
Get up, like, that's not nice.
And also, like, in the time that it takes it to learn how to fly, like, it could be eaten very easily by something or run over.
But that's how crows live.
They live by their, like, this code.
It sounds like they're, like, the mafia.
They're the fucking mafia.
They are. They are the mafioso.
And it's like, what did they used to say about the black hand or the...
The black spot? Well, you remember in Treasure Island.
I'm trying to remember in Brooklyn.
It's like if you had...
If there was, like, a print on your house or something, it meant that you were either protected or the mafia was going to come for you.
it's like that level of um i don't know remember when i worked for the mafia this summer i worked for the mafia it was so awesome i you know i also worked for the mafia wait did we we may have told these stories already but my summer i was hot i was looking hot too it was like junior year summer and i like was deeply tanned and i was like i got three weeks before i go back to school like Like, let's see what's up.
And I like submitted myself as a temp and I ended up as a receptionist at a loan shark business that was doing no loans.
And it was me answering the phone.
And then the driver, quote unquote, who was really the bodyguard would sit and we'd chat, you know, chat about different things, this and that, the weather.
And they love me. They loved me.
And I love the women who worked there.
You know, I don't know what they did all day.
Again, they just like went to Pier 1 and like they didn't do anything.
And then at the end of the summer, they said, we really love you to stay on.
We love your energy.
You know, you're a treat to have around the office.
And I said, I'm so sorry.
I have to go back to school.
And then they gave me $5 ,000 in cash, in $100 bills.
And I'd already been paid, you know, whatever it was.
And I don't know to this day, was that hush money?
Was that - I think it was just honestly, like they really felt like I brought a lot to their company, to their organization.
I was just - And I look cute too.
I look cute. They love to have an ex -stubborn cute.
You should have been compensated for that.
Listen, I'm not going to tell the stories.
I already - I know I already told it, but when I worked for a company called Master Furniture, I'm almost positive that Master Furniture was up front.
Not a brand I've heard of.
I was also answering the phone and people were screaming on the phones trying to get in touch with the master himself.
Yeah, yeah. You know, and he was never available and was always telling me to never tell anyone that he was there.
You know, it was all very, very, very strange.
But what did I want to tell you, Jessica?
Just to get back to the crows for a second.
Okay, I just, the mafia crows.
I just want to put the word out that I don't want anymore.
Yeah, and I'm going to be looking over my shoulder because I have seen a lot of them.
And actually, just lately, I said, I don't like how they wait so long before they take off when you're driving towards them.
It's really like a fuck you flex that they do when you're driving because you're like, I don't want to run over this crowd.
And you won't, but they'll take their goddamn time.
time and bb and i had one and i didn't think the crows liked meat meat that's right but when bb was a child there was a crow that would come across to the building across and it would bring it had hidden a couple chicken bones and it would come and you know strip the meat off these chicken bones every morning and we would watch it like it was a nature show and i actually think that's really fucked up.
I don't think they should be eating meat.
I don't know if that's part of their diet but it shouldn't be especially chickens.
Those are birds. Oh God.
Oh God. Okay? Oh God.
It's enough. And he would squirrel it away.
It was like his secret chicken bone stash.
Like I would hide you know like I hide some chocolates and stuff you know.
Well I will tell you just to I'm gonna move off birds because I don't like them with one exception and that's a hummingbird. Of course.
Every other bird can go to hell.
I'm dead ass. Every other bird but a hummingbird can go to hell.
In a handbasket. I know, those are strong words.
I don't care if they all go down.
I really don't, Jess.
I think our ecosystem would probably fall apart.
But okay. Okay. I don't care for them.
Okay. They're dinosaurs.
I mean, that's really what's troubling you.
Yes, there's such a, especially after seeing Jurassic World, there's such a close connection to those fucking raptors.
I worked for a bird watching channel.
You know that. Anyway, go on.
Barf. I just want to say, you know, one of the statistics that will always fascinate me.
Yeah. We're sitting down to Jurassic World and I said to Sam, you know, there was a time.
where I could name almost every dinosaur.
Really? You had a dino obsession for a brief time?
In second grade, in second grade.
I knew every dinosaur.
I remember the dinosaur book, big pictures, facts, little like pop -out boxes.
And, oh yeah, and this one and that one and bronchus, I love the long necks.
I wanted to slide down them.
They look so friendly.
Of course I liked the, you know, the ones.
The veggies. The vegetarians, yeah.
The vegetarians, yeah.
But I stared at these things, okay, and when they would put them in pictures with cars and people, and I would stare at the disparity of size, and just I was so fascinated by them.
And he said, do you still know the names?
I said, no, I don't.
I only know Brachiosaurus, T -Rex, and a Raptor.
Yeah, those are the basic features of the dinosaur.
Yeah, I don't know any of the other ones.
Yeah. And we start watching the movie and there's this fact that comes out early on in the film about how many years the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
And it was like humans have been here for, again, all of these statistics are wrong.
So few, comparatively.
Yeah, but Dan, we picked Dan up from anesthesia.
He had to get some procedure done and he was still high on drugs.
And Bebe and I drove him home.
And his whole thing was if they've been around for that long, they really didn't evolve that much. And he just kept saying no dino clothes, no dino cars.
He was so, he was so like almost like disparaging of them.
And I was, but he goes, really?
Like humans have been around for such a short time.
Dinos rule the earth forever.
What did they have to show for it?
He would say, he kept saying.
Jeez. Well, there's a wonderful statement in the movie that says dinosaurs lived on the earth for 165 million years.
Humans have been on the earth for 300 ,000.
It's a tiny fraction, tiny, tiny fraction of that time.
And yes, to Dan's point, we have evolved, created technology, but will we go extinct?
Will we burn our species out ourselves?
Well, we will. If you talk to Dan.
this is the kind of shit he will just be like yeah just like aliens are here and they're in the ocean or whatever he'll just be like yes of course we will our sun will burn out our sun will burn out and we know that but like so it was just fascinating to yeah they were around for so fucking long um but what do they have to show what i what i genuinely i guess i could look it up but It's more just something I like to think about is like, those motherfuckers were so big.
Yeah. And then they went extinct.
All gone. Why didn't other giant animals ever?
Well, they did in the Ice Age.
We had, you know, giant sloths and all of that.
But Jess, they weren't as big.
It's true. I don't know.
No. What was up with the hype?
I'm genuinely asking.
I know there are scientists and, like, really smart people listening to this who are like, you're a fucking idiot.
But I'm like, what's up with the hype?
When I went, when I worked at the Birdwatching Channel and I was fired, I had to do a story on the man who had discovered the skeleton with feathers.
in Mongolia they found a dinosaur that had preserved feathers and that's how they knew that that dinosaurs were most likely covered in feathers at least a lot of them were and that they were closely related to birds and I showed up I really believe drunk I was I went out until Until 3 a .m. to McManus where we used to go after shows.
I had had like 16 greyhounds.
And I rolled in at 7 a .m. to the Museum of Natural History.
And the transcript of the interview is so embarrassing because I didn't do any of the research. It starts out with, quote, and Dan will never let me forget this.
I said, what's up with birds and dinosaurs?
And he goes, what's up?
I go, yeah, what's up with them?
And it's like, it was so embarrassing.
And this guy was showing me, like, here's the bones and telling me all about, you know, bone hunters.
What was up? Yeah. I don't know.
I didn't really pay attention and the piece I did was terrible.
But I have met in my day many fossil hunters.
I also... I did not know you were in for the bird channel.
I spent a good half a day with the woman who found the most intact T -Rex skeleton that exists.
And she was just walking her dogs in the Badlands and she saw what she thought was a rock and it turned out to be a T -Rex skull.
She found it and then they took it from her.
North Dakota said, like, we own it.
And she's like, but I found it.
She's pissed about that.
She was pissed about that.
Now, when you go to...
There's so many dinos in Mongolia.
And this is the stupidest episode and I'm so sorry.
I wish I could like reveal something, you know, vulnerable or connective that you guys could latch onto.
But in Mongolia, there are so many dinos.
And what this dude's deal is, he goes over there for like summers to dig and stuff.
But he's like, there's so many dino bones on the black market that you have to get to the bones before these guys do.
and then often pay a lot of money to steal to buy the bones back yeah there's a bone there's a there's a bone black market we don't know about and i again like the titanic artifacts and like i was supposed and that's all i asked him about i was like so when you're like do you ever get any like fights with these bone hunters and he's like that's not what this piece is about we're about talking about but it really was that to me was fascinating fascinating because often they'll dig it up.
I want to apologize.
I didn't know who I was talking to just when I brought up dinosaurs.
I didn't know you so much. I've been in the bowels of the Museum of Natural History.
What you see out there is a fraction of the bones they got going on in the back.
And I was in the back.
I saw the actual dino. That was the link.
I saw it. And I probably touched it when I shouldn't have. I saw it.
I saw what he found.
But he would say, Yeah, we were doing all this work, you know, careful work with the bones.
We go to sleep. We come back.
Bones are gone. We have to hire a security.
I mean, it's a whole thing, because they'll rip those bones right out of, you know.
So there's a lot that goes into it.
Now, that guy, I was fired pretty quickly after that, because it was so embarrassing.
Do you know, I mean, I'm saying, like, a scientist will listen to this.
I guess I'll just ask you.
Do you know why? Do you know why they were so big?
No. No. Because they certainly lasted a long time being that big.
They did. Was it to get?
Because, I mean, there are trees now, and, like, was it to get to trees?
Well, you had bigger trees back then.
They had bigger trees back then.
I guess, obviously, the environment supported it.
Now, something I love about dads in general, if I ask Dan this, he will have an answer that sounds so assured.
Like, well, obviously, like, the environment just supported it.
It won't necessarily be true, but it's comforting.
Well, I'm going to go ahead and ask Chachi PT, and we'll see what she comes up with when we come back from this break.
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Well, you were right.
Jess, it turns out.
Yeah, it says dinosaurs grew so big for several interconnected reasons, all related to their biology, environment, evolution.
Can I just say this?
They had bird -like lungs, very large, with air sacs.
Okay, that kept them well oxygenated and lightweight for their size.
This system supported huge bodies without overheating.
That's fascinating.
They had a high oxygen and CO2 levels that promoted faster plant growth.
Oh, the Earth's atmosphere did, rather, which promoted faster plant growth.
Made it easier for animals to grow large.
They had stable body temperatures.
They had a mix of warm and cold -blooded traits.
That's fascinating.
fascinating they laid lots of eggs that means they didn't need to invest years raising a single offspring like us mammals do so they were just like had more time to grow like it like you you've had more time while you're working you've had more time to go to the gym it's that's exactly right now will i get to be the size of a dinosaur i don't know i'm kind of like you're in prison I'm lifting.
Like you get to keep going to the prison yard and doing your workouts.
Because I did. I said, Dan, God, her muscle tone is just really wonderful.
She's had time. I've had the time.
So this strategy of laying lots of eggs favors fast growth, larger body sizes as a defense against predators.
And there's two reasons.
Oh, because they got to grow fast because they're out, much like a crow, they're kicking them out of the nest. It's not like we're like teaching a brontosaurus how to eat.
You're just like, you're on your own and you better grow fast. It sounds like it.
Two more reasons. And this one's fascinating.
The lack of size limits from mammal -like constraints.
Now, maybe as a Neanderthal, this will resonate a little bit.
What does that mean?
It says, unlike mammals, dinosaurs had lighter bones, bones, many of them hollow, and postures that made carrying large weight more efficient.
Limbs directly under the body rather than splayed out.
That makes a lot of sense.
Now, the last reason that that's, I didn't know we had mammal -like constraints, and now it's all I can think about.
Yeah, I have a lot of constraints.
I have a lot of mammal -like constraints going on here.
The last reason. So fucking dumb, this episode is dumb.
We should just scrub it from the feed.
Nobody cares. Okay, there's such a good...
Okay, sometimes ChatGPD just nails it.
The last reason is the evolutionary arms race.
Large size could be an advantage for both predators to dominate their prey and herbivores to avoid being eaten, creating a feedback loop of bigger and bigger species.
So in short, dinosaurs were big because they could be.
They could be. Well, purred, they could be.
They could be. And I really think something for us to think about is, yes, we have limitations on our heavy bones and our mammal -like traits.
But again, like I said last week, and it's really changed my thing.
What are our limits?
What are our self -limiting beliefs?
how big can we be how strong can we be right i was just thinking about michael patrick king on and just like that the podcast with matt mcconkie which now is part of garbage sesh but i was listening to the interview with michael patrick king about the first episode of season three now i am i wait i wait with bated breath for those episodes i just love i'm now in a a gilded age sex in the city double pop.
Feedback loop. Yeah, you're in the warm Yeah, warm -blooded, cold -blooded.
Warm -blooded, cold -blooded.
Okay? I can do both.
And I just love it.
I love to be with my gals.
And he was saying, you know, it's been fascinating because at 30, so the first series I was confronting at 34 years old what people thought women should be.
Married, got their shit together, not sleeping with people anymore.
Of course that's changed a bit, but that's what I was confronting like these women against these societal constraints.
And now they're in their 50s and there's a whole nother set of societal constraints.
That's right. Women shouldn't be sexually active in this way and like claiming their sexuality and they should be married and they shouldn't be, you know, coming out at that age.
Anyway, so I just thought it's so interesting because we really are, we have so many limitations put on us just by society as women women that how big could we be if we are to lift those up because we are in an environment that is promoting small even when we talk about our weights i know i've been lifting those fucking weights and there is something so So now my feed is flooded with women in their 50s lifting weights and looking fucking hot.
But we're told don't lift those big weights.
You'll get too muscular.
Why is that a problem?
So you could defend yourself, perhaps?
As somebody who, you know, I'm just going to try to show you.
Oh, I know. I'm looking at it.
Yeah. No, I'm looking at it.
I'm looking at it. I just showed Jessica my...
Your guns. My guns.
I am a woman who is preparing, I guess, for battle?
Yeah, for the Hunger Games?
Something. Yeah. And I can't say enough about lifting.
It's strange how much...
Don't call me a stranger.
It's strange. I will say my TikTok feed is flooded with like women talking about how they were diagnosed with early Alzheimer's.
And I'm like, oh, they're so fucking panicked.
I'm like, oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God.
And then the first comments, so many women are posting in the first comments of these videos.
This is also the number one sign of perimenopause.
Oh, good. I'm telling you.
And I'm like, oh, thank God.
And it's so funny. And then under that comment, there's a million other comments like, oh, thank God.
I was really scared.
And I'm like, oh, we're all.
I am. I yeah, I don't know what to tell you.
Like, I don't remember.
I don't remember the last week's episode.
I, I find it charming.
Glad you do. It's just, I'm just monitoring everybody.
You know, it's like everybody in my life doesn't remember anything.
So I just have to like be just on it, you know?
you know and it's so interesting that you are sort of the village kind of his story i am i hold all of jason manzuka his memories from college yeah i tell his own life to him like he's watching a movie this isn't a joke i don't know why he doesn't have any cd -rom like i am like remember that special time we had and jessica i really appreciate it because i'm also looking to you to Well, to know what happened last week, obviously.
Yeah. But also, just in general, to hold, you are the village elder who's holding our oral history.
Like, we really need you.
I am. Like, I'm the one that's going to remember.
I remember so many details about my friends.
Like, that, like, I remember that when Danielle, we were talking, I got to see Danielle two days in a row.
one day we had like a two and a half hour lunch where I got to look at every single picture of her European vacation every single one I love one thing about me is I love looking at people's pictures of their vacations and I wish that wonderful quality I wish we had the time back where people would come home and do a slideshow for their neighbors like I I, I'm not joking.
I'm like, please send me pictures.
Where are you? You know, when Gus went on his field trip, his field trip, his fifth grade, like big trip away, we did have a slideshow for my, my sister and her husband.
And like, just went through all of his pictures.
That is, I love it.
How else am I going to know that, you know, she took a water taxi at night through Venice.
That's how it started, you know?
So anyway, I got to see her then.
That's a wonderful idea.
Yeah, and then the next day, because her daughter's at camp, she said, I'm just going to be around the corner.
And I was like, oh my God.
And I ran in and that was just—and Dan said, if you've just seen a friend for two and a half hours, you have another hour and a half to two hours in you?
I said— Oh, of course.
Are you kidding me?
What? Literally, he was like, what do you mean you're going to see her?
I said Dan if I could see my friends for three hours every day I would I would and I would never stop talking I never would run out so much has happened I was trying to also explain to him like so much has happened internally for me from 3 p .m yesterday till 11 a .m today like it's a life survive I have so much to say yeah of course but like what's what what I love about old friends is like she'll just be like well that was you know and of course that was back when I worked at city crab and I remember not only working at city crab but also I remember her that she was like one of the first person to
wear Javiana's like she wore cutoffs and Javiana's through the streets and I I even know that her boyfriend didn't like her wearing Havianas because her feet were so gross.
So she had to wash her feet every day.
I remember those type of details about my parents.
God bless you. Again, you are the village elder.
And it's not a role I would have necessarily cashed you in.
No, nobody saw it coming.
Nobody saw it coming.
Nobody saw it coming.
You are holding on to the stories.
And we will look to you.
And I honestly, if this podcast serves any purpose, it's probably to just hold our stories to put them down.
You know, we used to write them on the walls when we were— I said to Bebe, I was like, Bebe, you know, when you're older, you'll have all these stories of Amas.
And she goes, I'm never going to listen to this.
What are you talking about?
I'm never listening to these podcasts.
No way. That's not true.
She'll love it. Or she won't.
Or she won't. Or she will.
Who knows? Who knows?
Yes, who could say, actually?
I have no idea. Well, there are a couple facts about Danielle Schneider that we know and identify her with, but one is, of course, that she grew up in Florida, wore, like, fluorescent string bikinis.
Went to spring break when she was 16.
Yeah, like, there are certain things about her that are just her.
But one of, like, the defining characteristics of Danielle is that she worked at City Crab.
Now, I've never been to City Crab.
I don't even, I have a vague idea of where it is I don't know if it's in there.
I know exactly where it is.
Union Square. Okay.
It is such an important detail.
Paul references it a few times.
Like, oh, yeah, well, she was working at City Crab.
It's like, she worked there for a fucking decade?
Like, what? And it was such a cool job.
We all know about her.
It was so cool. The rest of us had terrible, awful jobs doing whatever.
But she would go to City Crab.
And then yesterday she was like, you know, if you work at City Crab, you'll never eat oysters again.
And because she was so horrified to found out I did 24 oysters, shot them before my surgery.
And she was like, you were playing with fire.
You were. She said things would happen in the City Crab bathroom that she said were just absolutely horrific.
And you will never—and that's a place you would think, if you're going to get oysters, do it in a place like City Crab.
But it's a chain, isn't it?
I don't know, but she said you've got to be careful.
But there was, what people don't really understand is that in the early days of all of our friendships, we saw each other from across crowded rooms. We were not, I just knew of Danielle's job at City Crab, and I built a life for her around that.
Of course. I mean, it's the same way that like, I remember when Casey and I took you out for a drink and you told us the story and you were on a, you said you were on an elliptical machine at the gym that morning or something like that.
And so I built a story.
New York Sports Club.
New York Sports Club.
I built a story of you like going every morning to an elliptical machine and like living this.
Yeah, like a wellness life, like adult life.
Yes, where I was like, wow.
Wow. Yeah, what you didn't know is, like, I had been moving so slow, it turned off, shut off six times.
I probably just, like, spaced out and disassociated, like, in the gym, in the locker room.
Yeah, like, but we built these stories about each other.
It's part of your lore.
Now, unfortunately, and we do have to wrap it up, but unfortunately, Danielle, I'm realizing, texted me the other day and was, like, asking me if I leased my car and how many miles per year were on it.
And you never wrote her back.
sadly no i wrote her back but i sadly said i don't know i don't know either i in fact i didn't write her i told her i would check my odometer but i'm not somebody miles are on my lease she's clearly trying to get this information and i'm like i did i she didn't write me back after that it wasn't like oh thanks anyway it was just like well now you've been you've been rendered somebody who is not worthy and i then broke the news about your car white on white what'd she say die.
It hasn't arrived yet.
Honestly, to be honest, she looked horrified.
She said, how? She couldn't, just like when I told her that I did 24 oysters and then was drunk when I showed up for my surgery, she was, looked equally horrified.
Like, how could you do that to yourself?
For those of you who don't know, because it happened on the deeper dive, but I shared that I was getting a new car, white exterior, white interior, and it sent shock Rock waves?
People don't, still don't know what to do.
I know. Is it really happening to me?
I don't believe it will happen.
I've also like been kind of looking at cars and trying to see other examples in the wild.
I've never seen it.
It's a unicorn. And I don't see it out there.
So it's like, I can't even really look at it.
But I've had several moments where I'm like, like change the fucking.
No. Because I had to do the build.
No. And I'm like, just change it.
But there's something in my body that's like, no, I want to see.
I want to see it. I want to see what it requires.
Limits. Talk about limitations.
Dinosaurs were huge because they could be.
What will this white car unleash in you?
I am actually scared because you said it announced last week you're going to become more judgmental.
And that's already – we're already starting a base level of judgment.
I'm remembering that, Jess.
Yes, I forgot it. And now we're getting into a white car with white, a white on white.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know what that is.
You know who would drive a white on white is Seema from In Just Like That.
Absolutely. She gets driven, but if she were to drive.
You've got Seema energy for sure.
Wow, thanks. You do.
Again, I don't know.
I don't have it yet.
God, you have Seema energy.
Believe me, once I get it, I will be reporting.
But live into it. Don't get the white on white thinking, oh, I'm going to ruin it.
What if you become one of those people that caretakes your car?
Well, a lot of self -help life coach gurus say the way you keep your car is the way you keep your life.
And my car is so bad that I had to put down a towel for my friend Molly to sit on the driver's seat to drive to Laguna.
It was, like, embarrassing.
I have grown into keeping my car, you know, nice.
I like a nice, of course, who doesn't?
But, like, I will get it washed and I will, there's an expense.
Honestly, the biggest concern I have is it's all electric.
And I'm like, am I going to keep it charged?
that feels like the biggest hurdle.
You can do it. The car I'm in now is half and half, so I can always get gas if I need to.
But stop limiting yourself.
But that feels, yeah.
So it's like the money I'm saving on gas, though, I seem to be putting back into the car to just keeping it at a baseline of sort of cleanliness.
We'll see, Jess. This is, you know, this is a sort of soft launch. We will be hard launching the white -on -white car very soon.
And I will be sharing my journey.
I'm really curious about this year being the year of no limits.
A limitless. Unlimited.
Yes. Also, why the fuck not?
Why the fuck not? Let's end with, you know, just like thinking about how big those dinosaurs were.
Yeah. because they could be because they could be.
And I wanna really think about that.
And of course, next week, you'll remind me that we talked about that this week.
Yeah. And I'm the keeper of her story that is yours.
Apparently. Love you guys.
I love you guys. And of course, Jess and I are not done with the day.
We are heading onto the deeper dive.
Yep. So for all of you deep divers who have had, want to take some curiosity bites out of the Deep Dive Academy, we are offering a special summer treat for you.
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It's so much fun. We are having the time of our lives and we'd love you all to join us with code SUMMER for 50 % off your first month at the Deep Dive Academy.
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Jessica, I love you.
We'll see you all next week.
All right, bye guys.
Let's go on a deep dive Let's go diving deep Let's go on a deep dive No secrets will we keep It's June and December Going deep How deep can you go Oh, really deep Let's go on a deep dive Let's go diving deep The Deep Dive is produced by Lemonada Media, Jessica St. Clair, and June Diane Raphael.
Special thanks to Ann Geddes for our cover art and Lennon Parham for her sweet, sweet vocals.
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from the onward project if you're like us you love discovering habits and systems that make life better that's why we're excited to share this opportunity it's perfect for anyone trying to design a career that works for them, not against them.
Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, is expanding its world -class network of tax and bookkeeping experts.
As an Intuit expert, you get to work virtually, select your hours, and be part of a mission -driven culture focused on helping customers prosper.
Plus, you're supported by a team of experienced tax professionals who are there to help you succeed.
They also offer Intuit Academy, a free and self -paced training program through which you can advance your tax and bookkeeping career.
So if you're looking to design your future with a flexible and supportive tax career, visit Intuit .com slash expert to learn more or apply.
That's I -N -T -U -I -T dot com slash expert.
