Takeaway Chinese, where you can take some Chinese away and experience progress day by day.
Takeaway Chinese, we will promise you a difference.
你好,欢迎收听随行汉语。 Welcome to Takeaway Chinese.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Hello, Steve.
Hi, thanks for having me back again.
As always, a great pleasure having you on the show.
We do multiple shows together and sometimes I think about how destiny is interesting that brought two people together to Beijing together.
You're from Canada, but you lived in Korea for a long time.
But you've always been working in the media industry.
I have.
Well, not always.
My first, I guess, introduction to working in the media came...
In the year 2001, I think.
And I started doing voiceovers for pre-recorded shows at a particular station.
That's how I started.
But before that, I was an English teacher for a good few years.
Really?
Well, being a journalist was complicated. kind of my childhood dream.
And I didn't realize I could actually land on a job in this industry.
But it is my first job and I've been doing it since the very beginning until now.
And it's a fun industry to work in, isn't it?
And it's been about, it's an amazing industry to work in.
And it's been about what, nine years for you now?
Ten.
Ten?
Yeah.
And the thing is, even within the 10 years I've been working here, I've noticed a lot of changes in the media industry, in how people consume our product, in how they consume news and also all sorts of videos and short videos, long ones, live streams, and the changes are also quite amazing in this day and age.
Yeah, the days where i used to turn the knobs on my boom box yes yes, To tune into the fan WFAN 690 in New York City.
Those days are long gone, but still what hasn't changed?
Yeah, the way we consume hasn't changed or has changed, but what hasn't changed is our love of sharing information with people and connecting with people and learning about their lives and sharing pieces of our lives while we share that information.
It's a beautiful industry to work in.
And also it's something that we can all relate to.
No matter which country, which city you live in, you must have the experience of sharing, accepting news, reading news or watching news in different ways.
So I thought it would be a good topic for Takeaway Chinese as well.
Sounds perfect.
We can talk about how we say different things in Chinese in media industry and also how to describe them.
Describe your favorite shows in Chinese.
I thought it would be a great topic.
And for those of you who are interested in Chinese culture and you want to get a grip on the Chinese language, then this is the show for you.
Stick with us for 30 minutes and you soon see the rewards.
And for more fun Chinese learning, follow our Facebook page Learn Chinese to watch many fun videos and live streams.
But now, let's provide you with some free Chinese for takeaway.
You know what's funny?
Even in the opening, we mentioned social media.
We mentioned our Facebook page, Learn Chinese.
And it's becoming from a so-called new media outlet in Chinese to.
I think it's the traditional new media outlet.
We call it social media because it's just not that new anymore.
It's very common.
It's very everyday.
It's easy to access.
Yes. and people enjoy accessing it.
So it's just another way for people like us to connect with the people out there who enjoy our shows.
Yes, and the keyword media in Chinese is 媒体.
媒体.
媒 occurs the meaning of matching.
So 做媒 is like I am becoming someone or I'm doing the matching.
And here we're talking about matchmaking.
Yes, we're talking about bringing people, two people, together and having them date and being engaged in a romantic relationship.
And Mei is bridging something or matching something up.
And 体 is an entity.
So the thing that are bridging you and information is the media.
Right?
It's a fun way to form the word.
The thing that connects the two entities.
Yes.
媒体.
So it's the entity that connects two things together.
Yes, yes.
So we also have words like 媒介.
Jie is something in the middle, but meijie is also talking about bridging two things.
These two words are a little bit.
The meanings are similar to each other, but meiti is definitely directly translated as media.
And if you talk about meiti, you're talking about news, you're talking about TV, radio and just different types of media.
So meiti.
And when it comes to mei ti, I think the very, very traditional one we're thinking about would be bao zhi.
Bao zhi.
Bao zhi is newspaper.
Any kind of newspaper, online and offline?
Online and offline.
You know, my dad, still his preferred way...
To consume the news is the paper.
It's classic.
Like the actual newspaper.
You have a newspaper.
You have your morning coffee.
You have a little bit breakfast.
And you wake up half an hour.
Half an hour might be a bit too rushed.
An hour before and you consume all these together.
It's classic.
That was my first job when I was a kid.
Oh, bringing newspapers?
Delivering newspapers.
My parents wanted me to learn something.
I don't know what the point was.
But anyway, I was in elementary school.
And in a Canadian winter, I had to deliver the newspaper before school and after school.
But before school was 5.30 a.m.
Ooh.
Yeah.
In cold Canadian winter.
Can you imagine waking up at this?
Poor you.
Oh, but you know, my dad was so sweet.
He knew that's kind of unreasonable.
And my dad was a high school vice principal.
So he had to wake up and get ready to go to school too.
But he would wake up with me and drive me around on the especially cold days.
Aw. to kind of help me out with it.
And then after school I had to repeat the process because the afternoon paper would come out and I would have to do it again.
Oh, your relationship with newspaper is complicated.
It's a bit of a history there.
Yeah.
Well for me.
I remember when I was in primary school as well as middle school, when I traveled to my grandparents' place, we had to take a train, and the train was much, much slower compared to today's transportation system.
And what we did was that at the train station I would purchase one copy of newspaper, but it's not really newspaper.
It's story newspaper.
Stories of what?
I think they're fictional stories, different types of stories and sometimes even ghost related stories.
Yeah, yeah.
And even though the Chinese word 报纸 for newspaper 报 carries the meaning of report and 纸 is paper, so reporting paper.
So technically speaking, 报纸 is supposed to be the newspaper.
But at my time, when I was young, there were a lot of different types of newspapers with different stories fictional, non-fictional.
And because newspapers are cheaper and cheaper, relatively more consumable compared to a magazine.
So I would purchase one copy of the story newspaper, get on the train, finish everything.
And it was just the exact time to be able to take me from my parents' place to the grandparents' place.
One of my favorite things to do when I visit home.
Remember, my hometown is about 1000 people, 902000 people, but they have a local newspaper.
One of my favorite things to do is to read the local newspaper because anything can be news.
And the last time I was home I was laughing so hard because there was a story in the newspaper about about a family's grandson had returned home after a long time not visiting and the family was celebrating by going to the theater and go out to dinner.
That was in the newspaper.
Isn't it lovely, amazing community to know.
Oh, we cover all these.
You know major world news stories all the time.
But yeah tatamagosha, nova scotia, that that makes the front page if a grandkid comes home for a while.
That is so lovely.
Isn't it, though?
And at the same time, when I grow older, I moved on to magazines, because one copy of newspaper is just not enough to kill the time.
I want a bit more.
And we know magazines have more pages and more stories.
How do you say magazine?
杂志 Perfect.
Zà has the meaning of a little bit this, a little bit that.
So a lot of different varieties.
Just like a magazine.
Yes.
And zhì is the noun kind of character in the word.
Zhì is a little book of something.
So zà zhì together is a magazine with all sorts of different stories in it.
Sometimes even, you know, pictures and... Advertisements.
Yes.
Jokes.
Comics.
You remember the... Did you have these in China...
The advertisement like a perfume advertisement, and then you scratch part of the page and then you can smell the page.
I've never seen anything like this.
Yeah.
Sounds cool.
Yeah, it is the first couple of times, and then you're like, whatever.
But it's kind of cool.
So it was quite common with perfume advertisements, because that was their way of showing what their perfume smelled like.
Yes.
I remember for my generation, every boy and girl would have one of their favorite type of magazine.
Some of them are literature.
Some are sci-fi related or just science and technology.
Some people like geography.
Some people enjoy romantic stories.
And these can all be found in magazine.
And one thing you can do is also to 投稿 投稿
To submit.
投 is to throw something in to submit and 搞 is a article.
So you throw the article in the box of the editor to see if they like it.
Oh, okay.
投稿.
投稿.
And if they liked it, they will publish your article and that would be a moment to brag.
That might be the greatest moment of your life at that time.
Yes well, you can do that with 报纸 too.
So together we call it print media in english, and in chinese we call it 纸媒.
纸 is paper 媒, 媒介 媒体, so 纸媒 together is printing print media.
Print media magazines newspapers, comic books, comic books would that count?
I don't think so, because I don't think it's exactly a media.
But I know what you mean.
That's something you'd find in the newspaper.
Yes.
The little comic section.
Yes, yes.
And after that, of course, radio.
We love radio.
We certainly do.
And radio in Chinese is 广播.
广播.
广 is broad.
播 is to broadcast.
Literally broadcast because you cast it.
And if it's broad enough, like, you know, our radio, it's 广播.
You throw it out there like a fishing net.
And see who's in the net.
Exactly.
广播 I think in my day and age, we also call it 收音机.
I want to share this because it's a cute name.
收 means to receive.
音 is sound or voice.
And 机 is a machine.
It's the machine that receives the voice.
And in the word, it forgets about the fact that it also makes the voice.
But the idea is it accepts the wave and then make the sound.
So it's accepting the sound would not be the form of media.
Radio but the actual physical object.
Yes, the radio.
Yes, i love, loved little radio and i listen to all types of entertainment in the radio.
And I remember vividly when I was in primary school, grade one, I took my very first test.
I'm not really sure if you know about Chinese students, Chinese kids.
In my first grade.
Everybody's score of their very first exam was about 98 out of 100.
Mine was around 70 something.
We were learning pinyin and i'm a little bit careless when it comes to details of the pinyin.
I didn't write them perfectly and my punishment from my parents was that they took away my little radio.
That's a severe punishment it is.
They thought it's it was the reason that i didn't study.
Well, I earned it back at the end of the semester, but it was a cute memory.
I remember being amazed.
And again, this is the boombox I had when I listened to that show in New York City.
I used to listen to that station because they talked about my favorite baseball team, the New York Yankees.
And I remember being amazed that I listened to these two people talk.
About something that I enjoyed, but I don't know who they are.
I don't even know where they are.
I mean, which room, you know what I mean?
Which room they're in, what color the walls are, where in New York city, that I have no idea, but yet I can still be.
Miles and miles and miles away and still listen to them.
And they have no idea that I'm out there listening.
I thought this is magical somehow.
And now I love it when we receive messages of people listening in the United States or Australia or Africa.
I mean, it's just mind-blowing to me.
And it makes my heart feel so warm that we hopefully can have an influence on someone having a good day or not.
Maybe just a little part of a good day by sharing information and telling stories.
I continue to have that same mind-blown feeling today that I did when I was a kid.
At the same time, we see the communication started to be both way.
Previously.
It's so hard to talk to your favorite radio host to let them know that you're listening, you're having an opinion about what they're talking about.
But now a simple email would do the job.
And I think that is also the trend in today's Chinese media consumption market.
That is, more and more people started to realize that they have a voice, and it's not that hard for them to make their voice heard.
And when they have an idea about their favorite thing sometimes show hosts, sometimes just live streamer they can say it just that easy.
And people take into consideration about the comments, about the critics, constructive critics and also the when they're sharing their life.
And I think that is the true essence of media.
That is the may is not only doing the one way matching, it's doing it both way.
Oh yeah.
I remember when I was doing a show in Korea, I got a gift once.
My producer told me, Oh, this gift came from you.
One of the listeners sent it for you.
And I said, Oh my gosh, really?
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And it was in this box and I opened it up and it was a book that the listener had sent me.
And the title of the book was How to Be a Better Person.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I died laughing.
This is the best thing ever.
And I obviously never read it, but it was a sweet gesture.
Obviously, it wasn't meant to say, you know, you're a terrible person.
It wasn't that.
I think on one episode we were doing like self-help topics and stuff like that.
And it was just in response to that.
And it was a very, very sweet thing.
But I'll never forget that.
It just made me laugh.
Yeah.
So I took that and I went on air the next show and I said oh, you know this listener, by the way.
Hello, you know, I got your gift and it's amazing.
But is there something specific you would like me to improve?
We had a really good time.
That's very sweet.
Yeah.
And besides radio, of course, TV, you can do the same thing.
You can receive emails and talk to audience.
And television in Chinese is 电视.
电视.
电 is electricity.
And 视 is vision or being able to see.
So electric vision.
It's something.
Yeah, I think it makes sense.
It does.
Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
You've done both radio and television.
Have you done live television?
You've done live streams, right?
Yes, I have.
Which do you prefer?
For me, it depends on the kind of product.
Because when I'm doing radio, I think at least...
90% of my concentration is on the content.
I'd be able to share what I think about the topic.
I'd be able to prepare fully the information and everything.
For TV, I can still do that.
But I think it's because I'm not mature enough.
I would still have to spend at least 20%.
My focus of my concentration, thinking about how do I look, because it's also part of the product and it's also important to the viewer, and that would make it extra hard for me to Deliver to the level that I do on radio.
So if I had to do really deep analysis of things, I would prefer radio.
You think so?
Yeah, TV is kind of an odd thing because when you watch a television show, For example, if you're watching a news broadcast, it gives the appearance that it's a huge studio right.
A huge wide space.
When in fact, a TV set is oftentimes a little small corner of a room.
Yes.
But the magic of the camera makes it look like so much more.
And then from the presenter's side it's kind of an odd thing, because they're staring at a black circle which is the camera itself.
And oftentimes there's a prompter, sometimes there's not.
But you know, you're reading off the prompter.
Oh, and by the way, here's a little hint for you.
Next time you're watching a news broadcast, Watch the anchor's eyes go left right left, right left, very subtly.
Very subtly, but you can see it if you're looking for it.
So that's the challenge for a great presenter is to break down that barrier and make the audience feel like you're speaking directly to them.
But I think there are perks of both media types because from the presenter's point of view How do you say presenter in Chinese?
Chinese.
Oh, so many different ways.
主持人 主持人 主 is the main.
And 持 is to hold something, to carry something.
And 人 is a person.
So you're the person who's presenting most of the stuff.
You are carrying most of the information.
So you are the presenter.
But you can also say 主播 播 is to cast.
You know that already.
主 is the main cast.
So it's the anchor, the main person who's talking.
And you can also say 播音源, so 播 is cast, 音 is voice, 源, we know it's 服务员的源, someone.
So for radio presenter or anchor, you are mainly reading out the news information.
Of course, you're asking questions or commenting, but...
Making the sound that you prepared in advance is your job.
So 播音员 is the one who is casting.
So different ways to say it, you can use it in different scenarios.
And what I wanted to say was both media types because, for presenters, of course, you would want to concentrate more on the content, but you cannot be everything.
For example, the graphics, the video footage from the on-site video.
They are all very important for viewers.
And sometimes for certain shows, viewers would like to keep them as companion.
They do things, they commute, and they exercise when they consume the information.
And at the same time, when there's something that got them really interested, they want to turn on the picture and have a look and see some figures and maybe write down some notes.
So I think all different types of media have their meaning, their significance in life.
Oh, absolutely.
And I think what you're talking about is the quality of the production there.
And especially these days, with a lot of people streaming and a lot of people doing their own thing on social media.
By the way, social media, 社交媒体.
She jiao mei ti.
She jiao is literally social.
So she is she hui, society.
Jiao is jiao wang, engagement.
So she jiao is engaging the society, social.
Mei ti, media.
She jiao mei ti.
She jiao mei ti.
The quality of the visual has gotten so good now.
That you can't this.
Maybe this is just my opinion, I'm not sure, but you can't get away with putting out a visual product that doesn't look incredible to the human eye, because now we're spoiled, because we've seen what top quality looks like and now so many people putting out media now are putting out top quality and visuals that it's become of the utmost importance to the viewer.
But also it's kind of raised the bar of what's expected now.
And it's the same for radio or podcasting.
It's the audio side of things.
You can't put out a product that doesn't sound perfect.
That doesn't sound perfect sure, because that the bar, the bar has been raised.
And one thing funny about these days is that when I was little, when I was a little girl well,
Me personally didn't remember the moment, but a lot of us, for a lot of us, TV was newly introduced to our homes.
So it can be quite astonishing to see someone on TV.
To start with.
Being on TV, or what we called 上电视 上 is literally on, and 电视 is TV, so be on TV is quite something significant.
And at the same time, when you see someone appear in reality and at the same time they're in the TV, you're kind of amazed by the phenomenon.
Yet recently I watched a video of a, I think, three or four year old saying that well, the mom tried to ask him whether or not it's something that made him feel better.
Quite astonishing as well to see his dad being on TV, but also appear at home.
And he was so indifferent in the sense that he doesn't think it's a amazing or magical thing.
He said, because you go record it, and then you edit it, and then you published it.
So now you can see it.
A four-year-old, that's how common social media, new media, self-media is in today's world.
When I was a kid, we had those rabbit ears on the television.
And I was just happy if the screen would show what was on television instead of the... Yes.
Again, the bar has been raised.
The bar has been raised and the native of digital technology.
In these days, their consumption or their understanding of media is totally, completely different.
And what they want, is that the right way to say it?
Their preferred style of consuming... Social media has just changed everything.
People call it doom-scrolling.
And if you're going to put out short videos on social media, you got to have a hook within the first.
What do they say?
What do the experts say?
Three seconds.
Under three seconds.
Because if you don't, they're gone.
And I watch my wife sometimes, like just from a few feet away.
She doesn't realize I'm watching her, but I'm watching her scroll.
And I'm like, wait...
What was the last one about?
You didn't even give it a second.
And I said, go back to that.
And then I watch it for like five seconds.
I'm like, okay, now go to the next one.
But do you know what I realized?
It's like flipping channels on a television.
It's exactly the same.
Because when we used to flip channels on a television late at night, if you were up watching TV, you would do the same thing.
You'd flip and you would know immediately whether it was something you were interested in or not.
And if not... onto the next channel.
It's exactly the same, except you're doing it with your thumb on the screen of your phone.
So I guess it's not that different after all.
So the conclusion to our conversation is nothing's changed.
Well, a lot has changed.
Yet a lot has changed.
And we have that expression in English.
I know this is takeaway Chinese, but we say the more things change, the more they stay the same.
We have 已不變應萬變。 using what's not changed to deal with the challenges that's changing quite a lot, the problems that are always changing.
So 以 is with, 不变 is no change, 应 is to deal with, to work with.
Wanbian is 10,000 types of changes.
And I think this works in media industry as well.
Because of course, we think about the kind of trend.
We're looking at more short videos.
We do not like longer ones.
We love live streams, especially those that allow you to engage with your audience in real time.
You answer the questions on spot.
Yet, At the same time, we also know that content is always the king.
In Chinese, we say content is the king.
If you have good content, no matter if it's in a newspaper article or a TV program or a video online.
If it's real gold, it's definitely going to be popular.
Which is why I don't like to listen to things at double speed.
I lied.
I do like to listen to things at double speed.
Sorry, not double, 1.5 or 1.25.
But even though I like it, I refuse to do it.
And this is all new information for me, because on Roundtable, another show that we do together, a listener from I forget where, but he said he listened via Cuba said He said that his fiance or his partner listens to things at 15 or double speed.
And he couldn't figure out why she enjoyed that.
And that was our topic for the show that day.
And then I said, I never do that.
I had never done that.
And then I did it because I listened to a lot of podcasts.
I did it.
And I realized.
It's hard to go back.
Well, I didn't enjoy it per se, because I want to listen to them talk in the way that humans actually speak to each other and the way, the time that it takes them to reply.
But yes, when I went back, when I went back to normal speed, I felt like, oh my God, we'll just hurry up.
Yeah.
But I realized, oh, do you know what this is exactly like?
It's like when you use a tablet for like eight hours and then you pick up your smartphone.
Your smartphone screen looks so small.
You're like, how can I see anything on this little dot?
And then you get used to it again.
And I think human society is changing the way we produce and consume food, information and, at the same time, all these are changing us as well.
We're very costumed to some people, 15 speed or 125, that's you right?
Yes, i do.
And some people are costumed with the algorithm that are keep pushing the information in front of their faces and they enjoy that because the algorithms are doing a good job.
They are in their, in their circle, in their level, in their little information cocoon, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way, and one thing we can do is to always watch out for the trend and take advantage of them and remember or be aware of the existence of these trends so that when they start to hurt us, maybe at least we're aware of it, so that we can do something about it.
I just had a thought, and I wonder if this is related.
I speak relatively slowly, but you speak relatively quickly.
I never listen to things at 1.25 or 1.5 speed, but you always do.
Yes.
I'm serious.
I wonder if that has an impact on how quickly people speak in their daily lives.
Maybe it's a personality thing.
Maybe, maybe not, right?
But I can definitely see it having an impact because if you're constantly hearing people speak at an increased speed and you get used to that and your ears get used to it and you get good at processing the information faster, then maybe you start delivering the information faster.
Maybe.
Let us know.
Let us know what's your take on all the trends that are changing you, how you cope with it.
What are some things that you enjoy, that you like?
At the same time as reporters.
No matter what are the media outlets, no matter what are the media type.
What we are striving for here is to bring you the authentic stories, the fun ones, the ones that we dig into to have more enough good details about, so that you can consume your information the way you like.
And it is our pleasure to try to do that for you.
Thanks.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
