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Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF.
It's been more than fifteen years now and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week.
Sometimes it's Bill Burr.
Sometimes it's Ariana Grande.
And she just looks at me because she's always going like, Dad, it's not that big a deal.
Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper.
I go, I still love you, you know, daddy has issues.
Are you afraid of it of death?
I don't know. I think about it all the time.
How are we here already?
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app, or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription.
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acast .com. Last week, I met this guy at a coffee shop who quit his high -paying job to open a tiny bookstore.
No big investors. no business plan, just him, some shelves and a dream.
I asked him, why would you walk away from something so stable?
He smiled and said, because I was rich in money but bankrupt in purpose.
That hit deep and honestly, he's not alone.
A lot of us feel that quiet question creeping in, what am I even doing with my life?
That's why in today's episode of PodChill, we're diving into the search for purpose, That big, confusing, sometimes terrifying thing that gives life real meaning.
And we'll be diving into it with help from none other than Carl Jung, especially his work, The Red Book, which is basically his personal inner adventure journal.
Let's get into it. Let's start with something we all feel, but don't always know how to say that strange ache in your chest when you ask, Why am I here?
Yeah, like that 2 a .m. moment when you're staring at the ceiling, questioning everything, even why your socks go missing in the laundry.
Carl Jung called this the search for meaning.
He believed humans aren't just driven by pleasure or survival, but by a deep, psychological need to discover their purpose.
And when we don't have that purpose?
We feel lost, like a GPS with no signal.
Or worse, a grab driver with no destination.
Exactly. Jung said that this purpose is like a North Star, a personal compass.
It helps us make sense of our lives, even during chaos.
Like when you know what really matters to you, every decision becomes clearer, even the hard ones.
Right. In the Red Book, Jung wrote that our true purpose isn't about what we gain but about what we're willing to give up.
He used the term voluntary sacrifice—letting go of shallow desires to grow into our true self.
And that self isn't a career title or your follower count.
It's who you're meant to become when you stop pretending and start transforming.
Let me quote Jung directly here.
He wrote, The highest truth is one and the same with the deepest suffering.
The self is born in sacrifice.
Whoa, that hits deep.
No wonder this guy spent years writing in the woods.
But he was on to something.
And today, even modern science agrees.
A 2016 study published in the Journal of Positive Psychology found that people who report having a strong sense of life purpose live longer, are more optimistic, and recover faster from illness.
Well, it also explains why people with no purpose often spiral into anxiety, stress, or that classic, what am I doing with my life?
feeling. Jung would call that the shutdown.
When your soul rebels against a life that feels meaningless, it often shows up as depression, burnout, or even a midlife crisis.
So maybe the real question isn't, what do I want?
But, what am I willing to sacrifice for?
Yes, that's Jung's big idea.
Your purpose is revealed not by what you chase, but by what you chose to let go of.
Ok, time to get real.
Jung says that if you want to find your purpose, you have to sacrifice, and not like, oh no, I missed a sale on Lazada kind of sacrifice, I mean real gut level stuff.
Yes. And this is where it gets deep.
Jung didn't just mean sacrifice in the moral or religious sense.
He believed that purpose is discovered through what we're willing to give up, especially when it's something we value, like comfort, safety, or ego." So you're telling me purpose isn't found in comfort?
Sadly, no. True sacrifice, in Jung's view, involves giving up a part of yourself—or some personal convenience—for something bigger than you.
It could be time, money, me, ambition, even parts of your identity.
Alright, let me nerd out for a second.
In her book GRIT, psychologist Angela Duckworth says that real success comes from deliberate practice.
That basically means do hard stuff, on purpose, for a long time.
So yeah, if you want purpose, you might have to give up relaxing in your pajamas and scrolling through your phone all day.
Exactly. And here's something even deeper.
Jung believed that the sacrifice has to be your own choice.
If someone forces you to let go of something, it creates anger or trauma.
But if you choose it yourself, that's when it becomes powerful.
Like choosing to delete Instagram for a month to write your novel versus your mom changing your password and saying it's for your own good.
One builds growth, the other builds anger and maybe a secret second account.
Your mother must have been helpless with your mischief, Leo.
Anyway, that example is true.
Voluntary sacrifice means you're choosing to aim higher than just feeling good in the moment.
Jung once said, The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely.
And that often involves giving up easy rewards for something that asks more of you.
Okay, but let's be real.
Life already feels full of sacrifices, right?
Like bills, adulting, doing taxes.
are we saying that's purpose?
Not quite. That brings us to the next part, because not all sacrifices are created equal.
So what's this greater thing we're supposed to be sacrificing for?
Is there a list? Can I Google it?
Good question. For Jung the greater thing is usually a value, a belief, another person or something that benefits the larger world.
it connects you to something beyond just yourself.
Like family, justice, creativity, helping others, that sort of thing?
Exactly. It might be serving your community, living in line with your truth, or building something that matters.
And here's what's cool, those things usually last longer than we do.
They're timeless. Purpose without sacrifice is like buying a fancy gym membership, but never actually working out.
You've got the gear, but no gains." True.
Jung warned about this, too.
If you don't choose something worth struggling for, you can end up stuck in a life full of shallow habits and quiet boredom.
It's like watching just one more episode every night, and before you know it, the whole week's gone.
So relatable. Ah, in the Red Book, Jung writes that the soul suffers not because life is tough, but because we avoid the tough parts that help us grow?
Wow. That's deep, but real.
If you don't pick your pain, life just hands you random pain anyway.
So might as well pick a pain that leads somewhere awesome.
And that somewhere awesome usually starts with this question.
What am I willing to be uncomfortable for?
What's worth losing sleep, money, or ego over?
That reminds me of this TEDx talk by Emily S.
Fajani -Smith. She said one of the four pillars of a meaningful life is belonging and service to others.
That's sacrifice too, and it leaves a mark.
Beautifully put. Because if your purpose doesn't require anything from you, it's not a purpose, it's just a wish list. Oh, so purpose isn't about what you collect, it's about what you let go of.
To be part of something bigger.
And that bigger thing is what gives your pain, your struggles, and yes, your sacrifice's meaning.
You know what's weird, Gwen?
I used to think sacrifice meant losing stuff.
But now I get it. It's actually the gateway to meaning.
That's a powerful shift, Leo.
Yeah. Don't get too used to me being deep.
I feel a dumb joke coming on in the next segment.
Haha, let's continue.
When Jung talks about sacrifice, he often points to people who gave up everything for something they truly believed in.
Take Socrates. He could have escaped his death sentence, but he chose to stay and drink the poison.
Why? Because to him, truth and justice were more important than life itself.
It sounds wild, but his choice has inspired people for centuries, right?
Yep. He showed that staying true to your values no matter the cost, can be more powerful than surviving.
Another one. Jesus.
Whether or not you're religious, his story is one of the most famous sacrifices ever.
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He could have avoided the pain, but he chose to go through it for something greater, love, forgiveness, and faith.
In Jung's red book, Jesus represents a deep inner transformation.
His sacrifice shows that sometimes meaning comes through suffering and not running away from it.
OK, let's bring it closer to home.
Not all heroes wear togas.
Some wear sweatpants and carry baby bottles.
Like moms. They give up sleep, free time, and even career dreams to raise their kids.
But many say it's the most meaningful thing they've ever done.
Yeah, my mom used to work late nights and still packed my lunch with cute notes.
I didn't get it then.
But now, total superhero.
And that's the point.
Their sacrifice builds the next generation.
They might lose something personal, but they gain purpose through love and care.
Also shout out to firefighters, police officers, anyone who runs toward danger when the rest of us run away.
That takes guts. Exactly, they risk their own safety to protect others.
That kind of sacrifice brings a powerful sense of purpose.
So purpose doesn't always come with comfort.
It often shows up with chaos and maybe a fire hose.
So here's the deal.
Jung says sacrifice only matters if you choose it.
Absolutely. If you're forced to give something up like losing a job or being dumped, it often just leaves pain, not meaning.
Kinda like the time I was forced to give up the last slice of pizza.
I'm still not over it.
But really, a 2018 Harvard Business Review study showed that people who voluntarily take on difficult tasks or make sacrifices are more likely to grow in leadership and purpose.
So if I choose the hard thing, like learning something new or helping others, that's not suffering, that's growth.
Yes. When you make the choice, you gain control, and that control turns sacrifice into something valuable.
So, if someone forces me to eat broccoli, I'll fight back.
But if I choose it, boom, I become the broccoli warrior of wellness.
Watch out world, he's green and powerful.
I'll take it as a compliment.
Let's move on to the next thing.
Here's where it gets personal.
Ask yourself, what am I willing to sacrifice for?
And don't stress if your answer changes over time.
Stanford's Dr. William Daemon calls it a developing commitment.
Meaning your purpose doesn't just appear one day?
Yeah, it grows. You might start by wanting to be a writer and later realize you want to help others find their voice.
So, don't wait for a big neon sign that says, This is your life purpose.
Just notice what you're willing to give time and energy to.
Especially the hard stuff you choose to do, even when no one's watching.
That's where your real purpose lives, like me, waking up at 6 a .m. to hit the gym.
Are you sure it's for the gym or just for filming TikToks?
It's community engagement, very important.
It's up to you. I can't manage your schedule anyway.
Okay, so here's a tough truth, pain is part of life, like Mondays.
You lose someone, you fail a test, your heart breaks.
And sometimes it just hurts without a clear reason.
Carl Jung believed we shouldn't run away from pain.
We should face it. And not just to survive, but to learn from it.
When we avoid suffering by pretending it's not there, or distracting ourselves, we stay stuck.
But if we accept it, even gently, we start to take back our power.
Think of people who face terrible challenges.
Cancer survivors, war refugees, people who grew up in poverty.
Many of them go on to help others in the same situation.
That's how pain turns into purpose.
I once read about a woman who lost her son to illness.
Years later, she started a support group for grieving parents.
She said, I couldn't save my son, but I can walk beside someone else.
That's meaning. Ask what it's asking of you.
Maybe it's calling you to be stronger, kinder, more awake.
And among us, there will be questions like, what are we willing to sacrifice for?
It's okay if you don't know right away.
This isn't a one -time answer.
It's a question you carry with you through seasons of your life.
When you're in school, when you get your first job, when you lose your way, This question is like a compass.
Even if you're lost, it points to something true.
Start with small reflections.
What have you already sacrificed for?
Time, sleep, pride, what made it feel worth it?
I once stayed up all night editing a friend's short film.
I had work the next day.
I was tired, but I was happy.
That told me something about what I care about.
Listen to your instincts.
Often your gut knows what your purpose is before your brain catches up.
And write it down. Journaling isn't just for poets and teenagers with crushes.
It helps you hear yourself.
Eventually you may notice a pattern.
Something that keeps pulling you in.
Something that feels like it matters.
Even when it's hard. That's your spark.
It might be helping people, building things, teaching, healing, creating.
And when that spark meets the world's need, that's your purpose.
The sweet spot is where your talents, your passions, and what the world needs all come together.
And don't worry, it doesn't have to be huge.
You don't need to start a movement.
Maybe your purpose is to raise kind children or to write stories that help people feel seen.
If it gets you out of bed with a full heart or keeps you up with excitement, it's worth listening to.
Just don't ignore it.
Because when you do, life starts to feel off, like wearing shoes on the wrong feet.
You can walk, but it hurts.
All right, Gwen, before we let everyone go, journal their hearts out, let's highlight some important words from today's episode.
Perfect. These five will stick with you, especially if you're on your own journey to purpose.
First one, purpose.
It's your reason for doing something.
What gives your life direction?
Example. She volunteers every weekend because helping others gives her purpose.
Next is sacrifice. That's when you give up something valuable for something more meaningful.
Example. He sacrificed free time to take care of his Here's a good one.
Voluntary. It means you choose to do it not because someone made you.
She made a voluntary decision to leave her job and start teaching.
Word number four, transform.
To change into something stronger, deeper or better.
Example. Struggles can transform you if you learn from them.
Last one. Meaning. It's the deep reason behind what matters in your life.
Example, he found meaning in mentoring younger students.
All right, now it's time to reflect a little.
Don't worry, we'll go first. Question one, what's one sacrifice you've made that brought you closer to your purpose?
For me, it was turning down a safe job to work in education.
It felt scary, but now I help people grow every day.
Mine was giving up social media for a while.
I used that time to write and that's when I started discovering what I really wanted to say.
Question two, what's something you'd be willing to give up for something bigger than yourself?
I think comfort. I'd give up the easy path if it means I can make people feel less alone through this podcast. For me, maybe control.
I'd let go of having all the answers if it means working with others to build something meaningful.
And now it's your turn.
What's one thing you've willingly given up or would be willing to?
Drop it in the comments.
Your journey might inspire someone else.
And remember, purpose doesn't start big.
It starts real. So let's bring it all together.
Young believed meaning doesn't just happen.
It comes when we choose what's worth giving ourselves to.
Forced sacrifice can break us.
But chosen sacrifice, that can build us.
Like building a house.
You feel trapped if it's not your choice.
But if it's your creation, it feels like home.
Once you find your why, even pain starts to make sense.
So ask yourself, what would I willingly sacrifice for?
And keep asking. Your answer will grow with you.
You don't need a perfect plan, just a direction.
Thanks for spending your time with us.
It means more than you know.
Until next time, take care of your mind, your heart, and your weird, beautiful journey.
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That's a u r a dot com slash safety terms apply check the site for details Acast powers the world's best podcast. Here's the show that we recommend Hey guys We have an exciting announcement about our podcast for the past seven years The Holderness family podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.
We love getting to talk to experts We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us and we also love hearing from you But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh.
A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We're excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all about aging together better and also being able to laugh about getting older.
We hope you'll join us.
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