you're listening to an I Heart Podcast. Hey listeners, we know you're all about making the most of your time.
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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of I Heart Radio.
Good morning, this is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's episode is going to be a longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today, I am delighted to welcome Dr. Emily Anholt to the show.
Emily is a clinical psychologist and the co -founder of COA, which is a gem for mental health.
She is the author of the brand new book, Flex Your Feelings.
So Emily, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so great to be here.
Awesome. Well, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself?
Absolutely. So I am a clinical psychologist. I grew up in Silicon Valley.
I have been studying and practicing clinical psych for about 20 years now.
I had a raging ADHD as a kid, I still do, and so somewhere along the way I realized that it would be helpful for me to understand how my mind works.
And then in high school I had a psychology teacher who helped me understand that when you know a lot about psychology you know a little about everything because the world is spoken in the language of relationships, and psychology is the study of the relationship we have to ourselves and to other people.
So my work in Silicon Valley led me to this interest in the psychology of the high performer, And I wanted to figure out what a more proactive approach to mental health looks like.
And so, a number of years ago I did a big research study where I interviewed a hundred psychologists and entrepreneurs and I asked them How would you know if you were sitting across the table from an emotionally healthy person?
What does that kind of person do?
What do they not do?
what does that feel like?
And out of this research came these seven traits of emotional fitness.
The seven things that emotionally healthy people are working on all the time.
And that is what my book explores, is how to do your emotional pushups, how to do an emotional workout every day so that you become more mentally fit and strong.
Excellent, and I'm sure whenever people hear the tagline about your company, about being a gym for mental health, I'm sure they go, oh, oh, that's interesting because we aren't used to thinking about mental and physical health in the same way.
But maybe you can talk about what the parallels are.
Absolutely, so if you think about physical health, a lot of people like to think that if they are not sick, that that means they're healthy.
But if you speak to someone with good physical fitness, someone who sleeps eight hours a night and eats well and exercises, they'll tell you just because you're not ill does not mean that you are in tip top shape.
And the same is true with our emotions.
There is this idea that you're either mentally ill or mentally healthy.
And the truth is most of us exist somewhere in between where things are mostly going fine, but we could all level up the relationship we have to ourself and other people.
And so emotional fitness is similar to physical fitness in that it's a more proactive and ongoing approach to strengthen your emotional health so that you actually prevent some of the emotional health struggles that may have sent you looking for support down the line.
Yeah, and it's interesting to think about it from this perspective, Because picture people at the gym, they're usually not just there to ward off disaster.
I mean, some of us have had back issues or something, and that's why we're there.
But many other people, it's cause they wanna be jacked up, they wanna look good, they wanna be the best possible, most energetic version of themselves.
And are you saying this is something we can do with our mental health as well?
Absolutely, yeah. I think that people often wait until things are really bad to work on their mental health, but that's a little like waiting until you have early signs of heart disease is to start doing cardio.
So emotional fitness is the idea that if you start right now, you are gonna see so many benefits.
You're gonna see healthier relationships.
You're gonna feel like you're living a more authentic life.
You're going to just be more happy with the choices that you're making because they're based on a more mentally healthy perspective of who you are and your place in the world.
So mental health, positive mental health is something that can be learned?
Absolutely. We all have certain predispositions and certain resources available to us, certain levels of resilience, et cetera.
But yes, it is a muscle you can flex, and if you work on it a little every day, it will get stronger and you will see huge benefits in your life.
Well, let's talk about that.
I mean, what does it mean to be emotionally fit?
Why don't you just do a quick run through of what those seven things are that the clinical psychologist could see with the healthy person across the table from them?
Absolutely. So the seven traits are mindfulness, which I define as becoming more comfortable being uncomfortable.
So just like if you are working out and you're not willing to be a little physically uncomfortable, you're probably not going to get any stronger.
With emotional fitness, you have to be willing to be a little emotionally uncomfortable in order to get stronger.
The second trait is curiosity, which is pursuing growth over defensiveness and continued learning about yourself and other people.
The next is self -awareness.
So understanding your emotional strengths and struggles, triggers, biases, knowing who you are.
Then comes resilience which I define as bouncing forward through setbacks and failures and I say bouncing forward instead of bouncing back because I don't think we ever really go back to being who we were before we went through a hard thing.
So that's not the goal.
The goal is to learn and grow from the tough things that we go through.
After resilience is empathy, so understanding the emotions of other people, being able to really feel what other people are feeling.
Then communication, being able to put words to your needs and expectations and boundaries, and then finally, the seventh trait is playfulness.
Being a yes, and person, and fostering a space to deepen the connection you have to yourself and other people.
Awesome, and what are the benefits of being emotionally fit?
So if somebody has, you know, high scores on these various different dimensions, or at least some of them, like, what are they able to do?
What are some of the payoffs one might see in life?
One of the complicated things I think about emotional health is it's a little less quantitative than physical fitness.
You know, when you go to the gym, you can measure exactly how much weight you can lift, and it's more than last time, and there's this very data -driven aspect of it.
Whereas with mental health, there's sort of a nebulous feeling to it.
My experience is that people with good emotional fitness just describe their life as feeling more authentic and satisfying, their relationships feel healthier, the voice that they speak to themselves in is kinder and more compassionate, they are able to weather the storm of the difficulties that life throws at them with more grace and ease.
You know, it's all those sort of indescribable things that make life feel more satisfying to live.
All of those things will get better as you strengthen your emotional health.
Excellent. We're gonna take a quick ad break, and then I will be back with more from Emily Ann Halt with her talk of emotional fitness.
Hey, Before Breakfast listeners.
We know you're all about making the most of your time.
So here's a question.
What if your lunch break could actually help you level up?
Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman.
Every Tuesday, Ken sits down with top experts to unpack the real questions that help you thrive.
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How can you ask for the raise you want, and actually get it?
What's the key to finally changing your life?
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She is a clinical psychologist and is sharing all sorts of ways that we can become more emotionally fit.
So one of the things you do in your book is you talk about a lot of different case studies, particularly people in the workplace, managers that you've done reviews with who have various blind spots, maybe not scoring so high on the self -awareness or mindfulness levels of your scale.
I wonder if you could talk us through some of the, a turnaround you've seen.
And somebody who was able to manage their team more effectively after working on their emotional fitness.
Sure thing. So in the book for each trait, I share a clinical example and then I share what I call an emotional pushup, an actionable exercise that you can do in that moment to strengthen your emotional health in that area.
So you wanna hear one of the examples.
So I can share that in the chapter about mindfulness, which is becoming more comfortable, being uncomfortable, I'm speaking about my work with a woman who really had a lot of discomfort with uncertainty.
And what she found was that her inability to tolerate uncertainty was causing all kinds of problems because the things she would do to try to get certainty were more problematic and uncomfortable for her than the uncertainty was in the first place, which is so common. The things we do to avoid our discomfort often end up causing more problems for us than the discomfort itself.
And so through our work she learned how to lean toward her discomfort instead of away from it She learned how to prove to herself that she's more capable of handling these hard feelings than she thought she did Experiments and showed herself.
Oh this thing that I thought would be so intolerable It's actually not as bad as I thought and there's all these benefits on the other side that I really want to keep Maximizing for and over time as she learned to tolerate her discomfort a little bit all of these options started opening up to her So for her specifically she was in sales and the uncertainty of whether a deal was gonna go through would push her to demand answers before people were ready and then they would be frustrated with her and she started to learn how to just breathe through those moments and tolerate those feelings of discomfort
long enough to see how things naturally played out and She saw this ripple through her whole life You know her friends who would be frustrated with her for always needing a plan in every moment and started to feel relieved as she was able to tolerate the uncertainty of what would happen that night, that kind of thing.
And so this is just an example of these little moments, these little opportunities we have to breathe through tough things, show ourselves we're stronger than we think.
And in that we actually strengthen ourselves and become more able to deal with all of the hard things we might face.
Yeah, and you mentioned the emotional pushups, the pushups that we're gonna do.
And many of us are at least vaguely familiar with some of the basic physical fitness ideas, like pushups or situps.
I wonder if you could share just a few basic emotional fitness pushups or situps that are things we could try in the next day or two to maybe make ourselves a little bit more emotionally fit.
Absolutely, so, you know, physical pushup is just this small physical exertion puts you a little outside of your comfort zone so that you can grow stronger.
And if you only do one, you're probably not going to get much stronger, But if you do a few every day not only will you be able to do more push -ups But you'll also be able to do more in other areas of life, like carry heavier groceries pick up your kid that kind of thing so emotional push -up is anything that puts you a little outside of your emotional comfort zone so you can grow and what's outside of my Emotional comfort zone might not be outside of yours So part of this is thinking about what makes you a little uncomfortable and figuring out how you can lean toward it So some examples of emotional
push -ups would be, if you're someone who says yes to everything that's asked of you, and then you end up feeling really overwhelmed and resentful of people, an emotional push -up for you might be just saying one kind but firm no to a small request that's made of you today.
Whereas if you tend to focus more on yourself, an emotional push -up might be to offer someone else help with a small task.
Other emotional push -ups are apologize for a mistake or meditate for five minutes in the morning, or celebrate a win instead of rushing right past it, or maybe pause before you pour yourself a drink in the evening to ask what feelings you might be trying to move away from, or an emotional push -up could just be put your phone away after 8 p .m. and not have your phone be the thing that you look at until the very last minute of your day.
So, one of my favorite emotional push -ups to suggest if everyone wanted to do one right now would be to ask for feedback.
It's a really powerful thing to get a sense of how other people feel about us So take out your phone and send a text to someone in your life that says something like hey I'm working on my emotional fitness.
I am hoping you can share some feedback with me What is one thing that I am doing well as a friend a colleague a sibling a parent whatever it might be And what is one thing that I could do 10 % better and send that text out and see what comes back You're going to be working on your curiosity, your self -awareness, your communication, and all of these things affect each other.
So as you work on any of the seven traits, the others will naturally improve.
I love the 10 % better idea because it's not just like, okay, what am I terrible at?
You want me to do, you know, that I'm really failing at left and right as a spouse, you know, friend, a parent, whatever else.
But just what could be a little bit better because most people have at least something that they could be 10 % better in.
And even if the person is generally happy, like it coaxes out a little something.
For sure. And it's easier to give 10 % better feedback too, because it feels a little like you're just giving a person a little suggestion, a small improvement.
And so I've found that that kind of removes the barrier to entry for people to write back honest feedback.
And I bet a lot of people doing this though, even if it is only a 10 % improvement, realize that they are not very high on the defensiveness score, that they get more defensive instead of approaching things with a sense of curiosity.
For sure, and what's interesting is a lot of people are defensive against the positive feedback.
So this also helps you learn how to take in the beautiful things that people think about you and fold them into your ideas of yourself so that you're not only focusing on the negative things.
I do wonder about that defensiveness though, versus approaching things with a spirit of curiosity.
Is there anything we can do in particular on that dimension to improve?
Cause I imagine that would be very impactful, particularly in a workplace environment.
For sure. One of the things that I recommend is giving yourself a little bit of space between your defensive feelings and the action that you take.
Often when someone gives us a piece of constructive feedback, the first thing we feel is defensive, and so the first thing we do is we become overly apologetic or we deny what they're talking about or we tell them why they're wrong or we give them a piece of feedback right back.
And if instead we just said, all right give me five minutes to think about that before I respond, and in those five minutes, you just sat quietly with yourself and wrote down what you were feeling and wrote down what you were worried about or what you think this feedback means about you and what actually might they be trying to do to help you and improve with this feedback, that kind of thing.
In that space, our defenses tend to come down a bit and then you're going to be able to speak from a less defensive place.
So, just create that little bit of space.
Just tell someone, hey, I thank you for this feedback.
Give me a few minutes to think about it.
And then let's talk about it.
And on the other side of that, you talk in the book about complaining without blame and what this might look like in a conversation.
What are some ways we can adopt this mindset of complaining without blame?
So still trying to get across that there's something that you might not be happy with, but without telling the other person that they are terrible as a result.
Yeah, I love this phrase.
The idea here is if you want to enlist someone to help you with a problem, without them feeling like you're blaming them for the problem, you can say, hey, can I complain without blame for a second?
So for example let's say you and your romantic partner have kind of just been sitting around the house a lot lately not really going on any dates and you'd like to change that but you want to prevent them from feeling like you're saying you aren't taking me on any dates this is a you problem.
You might say hey can I complain without blame for a second?
We haven't really been going out lately.
Can we change that?
And now the other person is going to be able to let their defenses down and see it as a problem that you're working on together, it's sort of us versus the problem, instead of me versus you.
And they might say, yeah, you're right.
We haven't really been going out.
What if we have a daily, or a weekly date night from now on, and every Tuesday we go out no matter what, that kind of thing.
So it's just a way to help people lower their defenses when you're gonna give them a piece of feedback as well.
And let's talk about playfulness, because this might be sort of a more unexpected one, that mentally healthy, emotionally fit people and feel have a spirit of playfulness.
But what does this wind up looking like in sort of our day -to -day interactions?
Yeah, playfulness was the one that surprised me until I realized how kind of obvious it is because play is such an undervalued and important part of life.
I read a study once that showed that people who play regularly live longer by a significant number of years than people who don't play regularly.
I love the improv definition of play, which is saying, yes and.
It's the idea that when people come to you with an idea, you expand on that idea and together you get somewhere that neither of you could have gotten alone.
So brainstorming is a type of play or taking a joke way too far with a friend is a type of play.
And so my hope is that people start feeling the permission and encouragement to infuse more play into their daily interactions in their life.
Maybe you start your meetings with an icebreaker game or an icebreaker question or maybe you just try to say yes and to a few more ideas that come to you today.
All right, well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and then we'll be back with more about flexing our feelings.
Hey, Before Breakfast listeners, we know you're all about making the most of your time.
So here's the question, what if your lunch break could actually help you level up?
Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Kollman.
Every Tuesday, Ken sits down with top experts to unpack the real questions that help you thrive at work, at home, and in your own head.
We're talking questions like, what are the 10 best foods for your memory?
How can you ask for the raise you want and actually get it?
What's the key to finally changing your life?
If you love thoughtful advice and practical strategies, just like you get here, Front Row Seat will give you the clarity and confidence to get better, move up and lead well, personally and professionally.
So take a smart step forward today.
Search front row seat with Ken Coleman and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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I also like the flush balm for cheeks.
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So I am back with Dr. Emily Anhalt who is talking about how we can become more emotionally fit, all the way we can do our pushups and sit ups in our daily life in order to interact better with our friends, our colleagues, our family members from a place of emotional resilience and strength.
So Emily, we always talk about people's routines.
I wonder if you have any daily routines in your life that help you be more productive.
Sure, so I mentioned I have ADHD and I feel like I've developed a lot of structure in my life to counteract that.
So I do have a lot of routines because routines kind of keep me doing what I need to be doing.
So for example, in the morning, I have a whole morning routine.
I wake up. I resist the urge to look at my phone as much as I want to.
I make myself a cup of tea.
I meditate for exactly five minutes because that's all my ADHD brain can handle.
I do a quick workout just to get my body moving.
I eat some kind of healthy breakfast, and then I write just one line in a journal.
I have a line a day journal, so I'm not the kind of person who could write for, you know, a half hour every day.
So, I challenge myself just to write a single line about how I'm feeling that day or what I'm grateful for that day or whatever it might be.
And I've been doing this for so many years that now I have an idea of how I have felt on this day for the last five or six years, just really cool way to see patterns, that kind of thing.
And then once I've done that, then I dive into my emails and get started in my actual day.
And this has just been a really lovely way to make sure that I'm setting the tone for my own life instead of letting my phone decide in the morning how I'm gonna feel that day.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we love morning routines here on a show called Before Breakfast. I also wonder how you tend to structure your work day, because I guess you have lots of different projects that you're dealing with.
I don't have a very clear structure of my work day because every day is different.
Some days I see clients, some days I'm teaching, some days I'm writing, some days I'm just trying to manage all of the odds and ends, that kind of thing.
But in general, I did my doctoral research on ADHD and success and a lot of what I found is the power of shifting your work environment to match your work needs instead of the other way around.
And so, I learned at some point what I need in order to get work done.
I need to be in a comfortable chair, I need to have a snack nearby, it needs to be a certain time of day.
You know, I don't do my best work super early in the morning or super late at night.
And so my workday is a lot of me setting up conditions to allow myself to optimize for how my mind works best and then leaning in.
But do you generally like plan your life in weeks?
Like these are the days that I generally will do X and Y or like these are the days I'm not seeing clients.
And so that's when I'm gonna organize these projects.
I'm just curious how you plan it out.
I actually plan my life in half hour segments.
You would really laugh if you saw my calendar.
It's very specific.
But yes, there are certain days that I see clients, there are certain days that I focus more on getting emails, all of that kind of thing done.
and there's chaos and structure at the same time.
I'd say that really defines my work style.
Yeah, exactly. Because we have talked a little bit about neurodivergent personalities on this show.
We've had a couple of guests who have also talked about their experience with ADHD and the like.
I'm curious how you feel about ADHD and productivity.
I think a lot of people are coming to new realizations that these two things are not completely at odds as we might've thought in the past. Yeah I mean my research really showed that ADHD is just a different way of being in the world a different way of working in our systems we're not necessarily created with that way of being in mind and so you have to be willing to restructure your environment a little bit if you can.
So for example there's a whole lot out there about how procrastination is really a bad thing and you should be fighting your urge to procrastinate and I have found that I need to procrastinate because the anxiety of an impending deadline is what allows me to kick into gear and get things done.
And so instead of trying to get myself not to be a procrastinator, instead I worked on learning how to procrastinate effectively.
Figuring out how long something's actually gonna take and not waiting so long that I can't get it done in time, that kind of thing.
Okay. Well, so one thing we always talk about on this show is what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Oh, I love that question.
Can I share three things that come to mind?
We'll take three! Okay.
So the first one is I have this thing called the gratitude trio, which is that every day I try to very quickly think of three things I'm grateful for.
One thing I'm grateful for about myself, like, oh, my body is working, it allows me to move.
One thing I'm grateful for about someone else in my life, like, oh, this friend reached out to me who I haven't spoken to in a while and it really made my day.
And one thing I'm grateful for about the world in general, like, oh, it's about to be stone fruit season and that's exciting and I'm going to get to eat all my favorite fruit.
So doing a Gratitude Trio everyday really takes it from great to awesome.
The second one sounds really simple but just taking a moment to revel in the fact that you are alive, I think sometimes we take for granted how incredible it is that we've won this cosmic lottery and we get to exist and it's this beautiful profound truth so sometimes I'll just take a really slow breath and think, holy sh**, I'm alive, what an incredible thing.
And then finally, my third one is send a text to someone in your life letting them know that you're thinking about them.
There's something so nice about just maintaining those connections.
It will make people's day, it will spark conversations.
And it reminds me, you know, wow, I have community.
I have love in my life.
There are other people going about their days right now.
I'm not really into anything alone here.
And that also takes things from great to awesome for me.
I love it. Yeah, the cosmic part is fun for me.
I have these random obsessions and lately I've been obsessed with this, it'd be a little detour here, but the post the end -Permian extinction 252 million years ago, 90 % of species on the earth were wiped out.
You know, people are more familiar with the extinction that ended the dinosaurs 66 million years ago, but there were numerous extinctions through earth history.
And I was just like, wow, 90 %!
Like, isn't it nice that we came back, right?
Like, you know, it could have been 100 % or maybe the 90%, the 10 % that lasted could have been 10 % that led somewhere else other than to eventually, primates that developed the ability to use fire and walk upright and listen to the Time Management Podcast and all those sorts of wonderful things.
Really though, our existence is such a miracle.
And I think there's something really lovely about taking a second to appreciate it.
All right, we made it through, our ancestors made it through the post -Permian extinction.
So it's good to know, it's good to know.
So Emily, where can people find you?
Absolutely find me on socials.
I'm on all the platforms. My handle is at dremilyannhalt.
My website is dremilyannhalt .com.
And I would love to stay in touch about and hear about everyone's emotional fitness journeys.
And grab a copy of my book, flex your feelings on anywhere that you would find books.
Excellent. Well, please do that.
Thank you Emily for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback, we know that feedback is important and I will take your feedback.
you can tell me how to improve by 10 % or 50 % or whatever else you want to let me improve by.
But if you have feedback for me about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at lauraatlauravandercam .com.
And in the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, You can reach me at laura at lauravandercam .com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media.
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Hey, listeners. We know you're all about making the most of your time.
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