Discussion keeps the world turning.
You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Feifei, together with Niu Honglin and Steve Haverly on the show.
Coming up.
Hot pot, a dish with dozens of regional forms across China alone, has gotten so big that entire industries have grown up around the stove.
And now we are seeing standards for everything from cooking methods to ingredient growing.
The city of Chongqing just released a fresh set, and today we are digging into what these new rules mean for the broth we all love.
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And now let's dive into the world. of delicious hot pot.
What began as stock workers' survival meal in the 19th century Chongqing has exploded into a 330 billion yuan industry supporting nearly 1 million jobs.
And now the city of Chongqing is trying to enhance that branding of its hot pot.
Starting from May, new regulations officially define what authentic Chongqing hot pot tastes, while also tightening standards on ingredients, traceability and spice levels.
But as hot pots move from these smoky docks to global boardrooms, a question sort of simmers in the background.
Will new flavors, new standards bring in to our pots?
And also, will the people of the city of Chengdu, another city very close to Chongqing, Agree on what authentic means?
I mean, but before we dive into all these questions, we'll check with our hot pot expert, Steve.
You cannot believe this.
I know.
I am the new hot pot expert.
I wanted to start this conversation with what hot pot actually is, because maybe some of our listeners are not familiar with it.
So what it is, is you go to a restaurant and they bring out a giant bowl of broth.
If you're me.
Sure.
And what you do is you check off what you want.
Beef potatoes, noodles what kind of noodles?
What other types of vegetables, green or otherwise, other types of seafood, if you want as well.
So whatever you want, you check it off and then they bring it out to you.
They bring the broth out.
They boil it.
They bring the ingredients out.
And at that point in time, by the way, it felt kind of like a Korean barbecue meal, in the sense that they're bringing a lot of dishes to the table at the same time.
And you kind of cook them yourself.
Kind of cook them yourself.
Yeah.
So you put the ingredients in whenever you want.
Some people will throw them all in together.
Other people will do them, you know, one by one.
In Chongqing, they have the nine divider thing that they stick in the pot.
Sort of a grate?
Yeah, and it's so you can keep track of where everything is.
If you throw everything into the pot together, the ingredients will get lost.
But if you have the dividers in there, then the meat goes in here and the noodles go in here and the potatoes go in here.
So it's a little bit more organized.
Anyway, that's what hot pot is.
It's a very busy meal.
And also very interactive.
Yes, exactly.
And I am.
So It's such a pity that you cannot see Steve when he was introducing Hot Pot, because he is very, very enthusiastic with his hand gesture and talking about the different areas in the pot, in the broth.
But yes, I understand it.
It's the kind of food that makes you feel excited when you think about it.
Yeah.
So what I don't know, though I mean I know that Chengdu and Chongqing are the kind of hot pot rivals.
In China, it's a different style of hot pot than you'll find in other parts of the country.
But I'm not overly or I wasn't overly familiar with the history of hot pot in Chongqing.
Well, it's fair, because if you look at some novels on the Internet, especially when they're in the time travel theme, you would see that all the main character traveled from modern day China to ancient times.
And they got appreciated by local people because they invented hot pot, because it's such a delicious food and people enjoyed it.
Well, it depends on which time period you travel to because, to be honest, the hot pot is thought to have spread through northern China during Tang Dynasty, which is 618 to 907.
So if you travel to any time later than that...
You will not be inventing hot pot.
You would be enjoying it already.
And by Qing Dynasty period, actually, it's already gained national popularity.
And its modern Chongqing form is believed to have emerged in the late 19th century.
It's already quite quite mature.
And when river porters simmered leftover offal with chili oil and herbs, you have the kind of ingredient you need, because I think chili as a major ingredient for Chongqing hot pot.
It's necessary for that style.
And the reason we're talking about different styles is because actually hot pot in different regions in the country have different characteristics.
They focus on different things.
For instance, some hot pot would focus on the freshness of the ingredient when you're cooking.
When you're cooking by yourself.
You cannot throw the ingredient or the meat in the hot pot for more than 10 seconds.
If so, your meat or your beef would not be tender enough.
But for Chongqing hot pot, it depends on different ingredients.
That's not true.
That's not true.
That's why you can throw everything in together.
It's big business in Chongqing as well.
In 2025, the city had...
Nearly 20,000 hot pot businesses and close to 40,000 hot pot restaurants.
That's from the Chongqing Hot Pot Association.
They have their own hot pot association.
Of course.
In their business.
They really do.
And of the more than 500000 hot pot restaurants which are around the entire country, about 160000 of those are from Chongqing.
And Chongqing hot pot also has expanded to more than 50 countries around the world in 200 regions worldwide.
It's a huge part of their food culture.
It's a huge part of their city culture.
And now they are expanding to other parts of the globe.
It's a huge part of their GDP.
If you take a look at it, the industry's total output accounts for more than 11 of the city's GDP and providing jobs for about 1 million people.
So it is significant.
And I think that's kind.
Kind of why we want it to grow into an even faster way of development in the hot pot industry.
Yeah, and that's also somewhat understanding when we're talking about setting up standards for hot pots.
It can be sounding surprising for people that are not familiar with the culture and the local brand of the city of Chongqing.
So let's dive into this new regulation officially hit the books on May 1st in the city of Chongqing.
And what is that about?
What is the hotpot capital trying to do with that hotpot business?
Yeah, so the goal here for the city is to transform Chongqing into the hotpot capital of the world.
Chengdu citizens are saying, excuse me.
Anyway, they want the industry to grow to an amount of 500 billion yuan.
The goal is to do that by 2027.
Now, to get to that goal, there are a few areas that the new regulations are looking to upgrade.
Number one is that there will be a definition for for the dish, and this is a first for Chongqing hot pot to actually have a legal definition.
So if you want to use that name, Chongqing hot pot, then you have to follow specific techniques and you have to achieve that classic, numbing and spicy and fresh and fragrant flavor profile that the dish.
And that means you have standardization.
That means there will be legal oversight.
And that means that other practices or other practical steps would be under supervision when you're starting or opening a business in the name of Chongqing Hot Pot.
Yeah, so like ingredients.
Ingredients, techniques, cooking techniques, levels of spiciness, the intensity of the spiciness.
I think people would have different understanding or attitude towards it.
Some people would say well, no matter how standardized you go, I still think different restaurants would be in different level of deliciousness.
I just would prefer certain restaurants a bit more.
Even when it's standardized.
But in this digital age, we have already talked about cooking robots here in China.
And previously we would think the cooking robots cannot do a good job as good a job as a really high class chef.
But that is not true, because standardization would lay the ground for the possibility of having really up to standard good hot pot.
I'm not really sure, sorry.
Yeah, I think we're going to agree here.
Go ahead.
When it comes to standardizing numbing, spicy, fresh, and frequent, how do you define numbing?
Okay, yeah, right, because it's going to be different for every person.
Yeah, so that's my question is, you know, what kind of changes will...
I think it's not about the most delicious restaurants.
It's about those not good enough restaurants being brought to the standard.
And it's also not about each chef in the kitchen.
The legal oversights are going to extend to the supply chain too.
So there are 28 new measures that are going to cover the entire industry chain.
So what that means is they're going to have strict or stricter standards for everything from how the ingredients are grown even going back that far and then how to process the food when it's served in the restaurant.
Different ratio of ingredients in the broth.
And that brings to another question.
We know the rivalry between Chongqing and Chengdu when it comes to their hot pots.
To me, they are somewhat the same.
They're all very hot, very spicy, very numbing.
But when Chongqing is trying to build itself as the hot pot capital and also legalize the term of Chongqing hot pot.
I'm just wondering about the big differences.
Steve, you've just been to both cities.
I'm going to save my answer to that for a couple of minutes from now.
Or if you want, I can do it now.
I wrote a love letter to Hot Pot.
No.
Because I recently, my wife and I went to Chengdu and Chongqing recently.
So after coming back, I feel that I can offer an opinion on the two different experiences.
But I want to hear your love letter first of all.
Then can I have my romantic music please?
Dear Hot Pot, I want to begin with an apology.
I had only tried you in Beijing, and only at one or two restaurants.
I had heard a million times that hot pot was delicious, but my experiences in Beijing left me disappointed.
What happened, I wondered?
Was it the restaurant?
Was it you?
Or was it me?
Maybe I was to blame.
Maybe I just wasn't a hot pot lover.
But then I decided to go to your hometowns, Chengdu and Chongqing.
I wanted to know the truth because, upon telling a very smart foodie friend of mine that I thought Hot Pot and I were just never meant to be together, he replied like this Steve, if you haven't had the dish in the place that it's famous from, then it's hardly fair to declare that you don't like it.
I agreed and booked our tickets from Beijing.
Our first stop was Chengdu, at the Fuchin Night Market.
I ordered the hot pot, but my expectations were in check because remember, I didn't like hot pot.
Well, of that dinner, I will say this.
There are certain meals in your life that you will never forget, and that was one of them.
The soft and tender beef, the fresh vegetables, the noodles that seemed to melt off your chopsticks as you were picking them out of the broth.
The enjoyment that I got from watching my wife enjoy her favorite food.
The heat danced on my tongue like a tiny campfire, but was still balanced enough to let me talk and laugh and breathe.
It was magical.
When the meal was finished, I told the owner of that restaurant that was one of the most enjoyable food experiences I had ever had in my life.
And then we packed our bags to Chongqing.
This is Chengdu Hot Pot's angry cousin.
Before my trip, my colleagues warned me, you should be able to handle Chengdu Hot Pot, Steve, but Chongqing, be careful.
So I decided to completely ignore that advice, and I ordered the hottest level possible.
I wanted to eat what the locals eat.
Oh, and eat it I did.
The same quality ingredients were there.
The same soft, tender beef was there.
But the heat?
The tiny campfire that danced on my tongue in Chengdu was replaced with an active volcano.
I completely lost feeling in my face about 15 minutes into the meal.
The laughing and talking and breathing from Chengdu had turned into sweating and gasping for breath, while saying nothing more than Oh, my god, and I loved it.
In fact, I loved it so much that we went back to the very same restaurant the very next night.
I told the owner of that restaurant that was one of the most enjoyable food experiences I had ever had, and I wasn't even lying.
So Chengdu, Chongqing, hot pot, how do I pick a winner?
The truth is, I can't.
And I promise I'm not being diplomatic.
Chongqing is hotter, Chengdu is more balanced, and both are absolutely stunning.
So I learned my lesson.
When you try a new food, don't be so quick to judge, because you, Chengdu and Chongqing hotpot have now climbed near the top of my list of my favorite dishes in the world.
And for that, I'm forever grateful.
With love, Steve.
Oh, that's very romantic.
But also reminds me that Steve is sort of trying to double dipping both of them.
You have to make your choice.
I can't make a choice.
No, I don't think so.
I don't think you have to make your choice.
Even we have this really serious discussion about which hot pot is the hot pot.
Yeah.
And we have talked about standardization, about the culinary industry.
We talked about making Chongqing the hot pot capital.
It's all moves from the industry, from the city.
They try to boost the development of their industry.
It has nothing to do with us as diners.
We can choose any kind of hot pot we want.
But I will say this.
Sorry, Beijing.
Chongqing and Chengdu hot pot is amazing.
Oh, come on.
That's my problem.
That's my favorite hot pot in the world.
Beijing?
Yeah, the clear water, sliced mutton.
That's originated from Inner Mongolia.
Sesame sauce.
Yeah, and then you dip into that rich sesame sauce, very salty.
The peanut sauce.
Sort of a mixture of peanut and sesame sauce.
And then you sort of dive into that.
I'm not saying that Chongqing and Chengdu hot pot is not good.
I'm just saying that in China, we have like dozens of different forms of hot pots out there.
Yeah, I have a big heart.
I have my love for the Xizang yak style hot pot. where you put a lot of Tibetan-style ingredient in.
I have my love for Yunnan sour soap style, where you can have a lot of different mushrooms and also the Hainan coconut chicken.
Coconut and chicken together, really nice.
So yes, hot pot in China, something you must try.
And also they have like local flavors.
The Hainan coconut chicken is also one of the best.
You have to try that.
It's on my list now.
And then write another love letter.
Yeah, right.
Next week.
Some other day.
Yes.
But anyhow, this is the center, the star of our dinner table, the hot pot.
And also when you're thinking about the weather.
Today, it's drizzling outside in Beijing and also, I believe, in many cities in China as well.
The perfect weather for hot pots.
So enjoy your meal, enjoy your hot pot and also enjoy your day and weekend.
