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Terms apply. Time for another reheat, and it is 4th of July week.
We did a new episode just a few days ago that was very hot dog centric, and we're sticking with that theme this week.
We're visiting two classic family -owned hot dog spots.
The first one, Red Hot's Coney Island in Highland Park, Michigan, was in business for over 100 years, but they closed for good in 2021.
So I'm so glad we have this document of their incredible history.
Owner Rich Harlan, who you'll meet in this episode, told the Detroit Free Press when they closed down, I've been doing this for 55 years.
years. My wife wants to retire.
Well, well -deserved to the whole family.
The second hot dog spot you can hear about in this episode is Rutz Hut in Clifton, New Jersey.
Still going strong, it opens seven days a week, which my parents will be very happy to hear.
That's a classic Pashman family haunt with deep fried hot dogs.
My grandfather went there.
That's how old school that place is.
Anyway, remember that if there's a reheat you want to hear, drop me a line at hello at sporkful .com.
Thanks and enjoy. a few weeks ago i went to a hot dog joint in highland park michigan near detroit it's called red hots they specialize in something called a coney island hot dog here's a customer named doug you just know when you get up you want a coney so like you roll out of bed and you're like i'm gonna red hot today exactly yep when you get in the mood for a coney it's that's the only thing that's gonna cure it and did you grow up eating Eating Coney's?
Oh yeah. What are some of your memories of eating Coney's as a kid?
Oh, my grandfather used to take me out and get Coney's all the time when I was a kid and man, I guess just the messiness of them and with the onions and everything on it, it's just, I don't know if you can get anything better.
There we go. You're welcome.
Thank you. A Coney Island is a hot dog in a hot dog bun layered with a little mustard, chili, and then onions.
This is the owner of Red Hot's, Rich Harlan.
A lot of Coney Islands, they like to put the chili and then the mustard over there and then the onions, and it looks pretty that way.
I'm not here for a pretty hot dog.
I'm here for the taste.
The mustard is only supposed to enhance the chili is all it's for, and so I do it the old -fashioned way where the mustard actually goes on first. first. Red Hots has been in Rich's family since it opened back in 1921.
One time, a while back, the restaurant was short -staffed, so Rich's wife, Carol, came in to help out.
She's still there. That was 18 years ago.
People wonder, you know, like I said, in just a couple of weeks we'll be married almost 39 years, and you know, now we work every day together.
We're with each other every single day, 24 hours a day.
How do you do that?
And what do you say?
I don't pay attention to them.
Rich, is that true?
Oh, boy, is that ever.
That's good, though.
It worked for us. Over on a stool at the counter, Rich's mom keeps an eye on everything.
She's 84. They call her Mean Jean.
She remembers this place back in the day when the auto plant down the street cranked out cars 24 -7.
That grill was full of hot dogs all the time.
Because Forge was right about a block away, and they got out of there for a half hour or whatever they got for lunch, and they'd run in and out.
Boy, that's why those hot dogs would just keep going and going and going.
And they're still going.
Today on The Sporkful, we'll take you to two iconic American hot dog joints that have been in business for a combined total of 183 years.
And they're both still family -owned.
What are the pros and cons of running a business with your family?
The pros and cons? You have a family?
I think it's self -explanatory.
That's the owner of The Other Place.
Coming up, we'll find out what makes these places special.
Plus, Kenji Lopez -Alt schools us on the science of deep -fried hot dogs.
Stick around. From WNYC Studios, this is The Sporkful.
It's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people.
So, let's talk a little about Coney Island hot dogs.
How did a food that's found in the middle of America get named after a beach in Brooklyn?
Well, we get the term hot dog because back in the late 1800s, there were all these rumors that the sausages sold at Coney Island were made from dog meat.
Hot dog. Get it? The Coney Island Chamber of Commerce, they didn't like those rumors.
So in 1913, they banned the use of the term hot dog on all the signs there.
Around that time, a lot of Greek immigrants were coming through New York.
They were fleeing the Balkan Wars.
And there were no signs to tell them what to call these sausages that they were encountering.
So they called them Coney Islands.
As those immigrants fanned out across the U .S., the Coney Island hot dog was born.
Nowadays, you can find Coney's as far south as Texas.
But Detroit is really the epicenter.
and wherever you go it's pretty much always chili mustard onions now quick disclaimer we're not going to get into which place is best okay I'm sure the internet has opinions on that we wanted to go to Red Hot's because of its history it's got a unique connection to Detroit's auto industry it opened in 1921 still owned by the same family and everything there is still made from scratch nothing from a can as owner Rich Harlan told me he knows he's been working there most of his life I started here in about 67 as a kid and have been going ever since.
How old are you then, if I may ask?
I'm 62. So, okay, now you're making me do math, Richard. 14.
I think I probably started around 14.
I was the Saturday help.
Okay. Washing dishes and stuff like that.
So you started at the bottom.
That's the equivalent of starting in the mailroom, right?
Well, let's put it this way.
I started as a mopper and I'm still mopping.
how have the hot dogs the conies themselves changed over the years really not they haven't changed in all the years we are one of the few conies that still make our chili and I don't have a story on how or who came up with that chili recipe I don't think chili Chili is a Greek recipe.
We're both Greeks, and so I don't know where that came from.
Rich shows me the chopping block where he dices onions every day.
It's probably like three inches thick, but it has a deep indentation in it from so much use over the years.
It looks more like a bowl than a board. But you make the chili yourself every day?
Every day, yes. Seven days a week?
Yes. 360 days a year?
Well, back in its heyday, twice a day.
Wow. And how long have you been the one making the chili?
Oh, probably the last 30 years.
If you lost your eyesight tomorrow, do you think you could still do it?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely, I could still do it.
I do it now, half asleep.
RedHot's is a half a block from the former auto plant where Henry Forg built his famous moving assembly line back in 1913.
This is the factory where they made the Model T.
Back then, years ago, we were open 24 -7.
We never even had a lock on the door.
At 11 o 'clock, a whistle would blow, and you knew within a couple of minutes Ford employees were coming rushing you.
And back then you would put two hot dogs, two coneys in a bag and set them there, and guys would run in, throw the money on the counter, grab a bag and run.
Because they only had such a short time for lunch. And what they would do, they would grab the two bags, bags, shoot to the bar, which is across the street, have a shot and a beer, and then run back to the plant and sit in front of the door and eat their lunch and read the paper.
Everybody years ago carried a paper underneath their arms. That was their form of finding out what was going on.
I got to be honest, if I had a shot and a beer and two Coney's, I don't know that I could go back to making cars.
You would if you wanted to keep a job.
Because I was told many times, if you complained a little bit, they used to walk you over to the window and show you a line, people waiting for a job.
And you would say, I'm sorry, and just go right back to work.
So there was a lot of people were looking for work back then, so you couldn't, you know, you didn't want to ruin it.
As today's lunch crowd trickles in, I talked to a customer named Jerry.
He's been coming to Red Hots for over 40 years, since he was a kid.
His father and grandfather both worked at the Ford plant.
People had rented apartments and houses around here that three guys slept in the bed because each one had an eight -hour shift. at the plant and then they'd had an eight -hour shift in one bed in an apartment.
So that's how jammed it was around here, the population and the demographics back then.
So they would just sleep and work in cycles.
And then you had one eight -hour shift out on the street where you would go to a coffee house or something, then an eight -hour shift in bed and an eight -hour shift in the plant.
Oh, so you had to go and kill time basically because you weren't working but you couldn't sleep.
Yeah, because someone was in your bed.
Oh, wow. Yeah. Those are the stories my dad told me.
Do you have kids? Two boys, and they both come here.
Yeah, even when I'm not with them, they'll come down here to have conies.
Today, that old Ford plant's barely used for anything.
It's been designated a National Historic Landmark.
Rich says when the recession hit in 2008, things got really bleak.
It was terrible. It really was a lot of businesses had closed up around here.
A lot of restaurant people that I knew had to close their doors.
and you hate to see a guy lose what he's worked hard for.
So it was tough. It really was.
And I cut myself down to one paycheck a month.
And the reason I could keep going is I really owed nobody anything.
All my stuff was all paid for.
If I had a big note to pay, I'd have been in real trouble.
What did keep us going is our regular customers.
They kept us going.
and we have generations of people that come in we have quite a few families that the grandpa's and grandma's have started in the 50s and then as they have gotten married they would bring in their kids and now they are bringing in their kids so we have three and four generations of family that could go to any other place because it's they could be living a half -hour 45 minutes an hour hour away from us, but they decide to come here.
Yeah. It's funny you talk about that because I grew up in New Jersey and there's a famous hot dog place in New Jersey called Rutt's Hut where they do deep fried hot dogs.
Okay. And my grandfather went there.
Like my dad grew up going there.
I mean, I don't get to go there now.
I live pretty far away.
I don't get to go as often as I would like, but like, you know, it's kind of, it was the kind of place like generation after generation, you take your kids to Rutt's Hut.
I mean, after that's where we went, the family we went after my grandfather's funeral oh that's awesome yeah even if it's been a long time since you've been there even if you haven't gone there so many times it's like when you know that it has this history in your family like it's always going to have a special place it's kind of it's almost like when you meet a distant relative even if you didn't really know them that well you still sort of feel like you have this connection with them right right it's kind of the same thing when you go back to a place right and we even we'll get a customer that maybe
grew up in highland park and hasn't been back in 30 years.
And, hey, I see you guys are still here.
I'm going to come in.
And they would take one bite of their coney and go, oh, my gosh, it's just like how I tasted.
As for how it tasted to me, the chili may have been the richest, beefiest chili I've ever eaten in my life.
And Rich hit the nail on the head because it's about the combo of the mustard and the chili.
The mustard, with its acidity, cuts through that rich fattiness of the chili, and he has them in perfect proportion.
And then a little bit of crunch and sharpness from the chopped onions on top.
And then you just get that iconic chili dog bite.
You know, your teeth are coming down through the chili, and it's rich and meaty, and you're hitting the bun, and it's soft. Everything is soft and juicy and tender.
And then you hit the exterior of the hot dog, and then your teeth pierce the hot dog.
and that just releases this torrent of hot dog juice and salt and fat and flavor into the bite, and that is just such a special moment, you know?
It's right up there with the birth of a child.
You know what I'm talking about.
So I ate three of those hot dogs because they were amazing.
As for the business these days, things are getting better.
Rich and Carol got a really big break.
They were on the Food Network show American Diner Revival.
the whole place got a makeover and the day after the show aired Red Hots had their busiest day in 20 years and Carol says they're seeing more new faces.
While I was there a young guy named Jimmy came in with his girlfriend.
My girlfriend works about a half mile down the road and she wanted to go for lunch and my father has talked about this place since I was a kid so we decided to come over here and grab a bite to eat.
You've never been? Nope.
But your dad talked about it?
Yes. Your Your grandfather came here.
We're from Highland Park, and I've somehow just never came, and it's my first time.
And Rich, you recognize this guy's family?
Oh yeah, I know his grandfather, I know his father comes in here, and this is his first time.
So we're hoping to lock him in.
So the family tradition continues for the customers, and also the owners.
Rich and Carol's daughter helps out at the restaurant a lot on the weekends and during the summer.
The rest of the year she teaches special ed.
She set up the restaurant with a Facebook page.
But Rich isn't so sure he wants her to take over the business.
I mean, it's seven days a week, every week, all year.
Last year, not counting major holidays, Rich took three days off.
That's including weekends, three days the whole year.
So how much longer does Rich want to be doing this?
Years ago, I was wondering, we used to have an old, they were all old men, but i had one that was worth probably over a million he worked here just two three days a week because he was in his 80s and i said chris can i ask you something he said what do you want kid i says i know financially you're okay how come you're still working he says i'm gonna tell you this once and i want you to listen to me good and i says okay he says it's better to wear out than rust out and don't you ever forget that when I think of him I keep grinding away that's what keeps me going I really want to thank Rich, Carol
and me and Gene there at Red Hots in Highland Park, Michigan Michigan, the hot dogs were outstanding and they were so warm and hospitable.
It was great to be there.
If you're nearby, it's worth a visit.
Coming up, you heard when I was talking to Carol, I told her about the famous New Jersey hot dog joint, the deep fried hot dogs where my family went all the time.
After the break, that's where we're headed.
And I'm bringing my parents.
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Welcome back to a Sporkful Reheat.
I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, if you're not already following the Sporkful in your podcasting app, what are you waiting for?
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It's the best way to ensure you'll never miss an episode, and it's good for our show.
So please go ahead and do it right now while you're listening.
Thanks. So, back to hot dogs.
Rutz Hut in Clifton, New Jersey is just across the Hudson River from New York City.
But you went there, let me tell you, you wouldn't feel like you were anywhere near Manhattan, okay?
Rutz has been there since 1928, and it's famous for its deep fried hot dogs.
More on them in a minute.
Now, I grew up in New Jersey.
My father and my grandfather grew up in New Jersey.
In fact, I have a photo of my grandfather in the parking lot of Rutz Hut in 1936 or 37.
I'll post it on sporkful .com.
He was a judge, so we called him Judgy, as you'll hear when we talk about him.
And so Rutz Hut has always been a special place for my family.
But my parents and I haven't been there in years, because I live way out on Long Island, they live in New England.
But a few weeks ago, when they were in town, we all made the pilgrimage.
You know, when you go back to a place like that, it brings up a lot of memories.
Like this story my mom told about the time she and my dad came to Rutz after she had been in the hospital.
And we stopped here afterwards for a hot dog because it was sort of like a treat.
Like some people stop for an ice cream cone.
We went into this stand.
Wait, when was this?
This is before you were born.
Okay. So we went into the stand and I started eating my hot dog and I didn't feel right.
i thought it was going to pass out so dad walked me to the car and told me to put my head and i put my head down and i'm waiting and i think he's going to come around to the other side of the car and get in i'm waiting i'm waiting finally i look up he's not there he went back in to finish my hot you couldn't believe it i thought at least he would put it in the bag for me Dad, your comment?
What, I wasn't going to leave it?
My cousin Andy joined us too.
He works nearby. He's older than me, so he has more memories of coming to Rutz as a kid.
This started out being a Sunday family place where one of the places we would meet was here on Sunday.
And we could meet at a very fancy place like Gene Boyle's on Paseca Ave, or we could meet here on a Sunday evening.
And by we, who's in that crowd?
Our family. So it would be my mom, my dad, Scott, your mom, your dad, even before your mom was around, and Judgey and Gammy, my grandmother and my grandfather.
And this was one of the regular rotation spots on Sunday.
So it was unusual for me to start coming here with my kids.
The way I started coming with my kids was whenever we'd go to the circus or Disney on Ice or something like that, my kids got turned on to this place.
I've got to say, I don't really remember those Sunday dinners that Andy talked about.
I asked my mom if maybe I was there but I was just too young to remember I have to figure out the math, how young you might have been I'm in here I'm just trying to think how old you were when Judgey died That's how you're going to do the math?
Why don't you start with when I was born?
76 I was born in 77 That's what I'm saying You're going to edit all this right?
Oh it's going to sound great in the end don't worry That means no know now let's skip ahead to the ordering of the hot dogs see mom i told you we'd edit this but wait before we get to the ordering we got to talk about your options at ruts hut and to do that we have to talk about what happens to a hot dog when you deep fry it at ruts like at other places famous for deep fried hot dogs the dogs are not battered you just take a hot dog and throw it in hot oil i asked food science guru and friend of the show kenji lopez alt to explain what happens next?
So the first thing is that if the hot dog has a casing, what happens is that the meat inside starts to expand, and eventually it expands so much that it rips that casing apart.
This is actually done intentionally in some places.
I mean, I know they call them rippers at Rutzhut and a couple other places.
If you try and deep fry a hot dog with no casing, on the other hand, which some places do, they don't rip open.
So that's one reason why you might want a casing because you get that sort of textural contrast. It ends up with sort of craggy nooks and crannies inside and those can crisp up nicely.
Kenji says some hot dogs are better for deep frying than others.
Beef fat is much firmer than pork fat is.
Pork fat has a lower melting temperature.
So that means that when you drop a hot dog into a deep fryer, a beef hot dog, there's going to be less of a textural contrast between that crispy outside and sort of the softer interior.
A beef and pork hot dog, on the other hand, you will get sort of an almost creamy texture on the inside, the part that isn't directly exposed to the oil.
Rutz Hut, I believe, uses Thumens brand hot dogs, which are a German -style pork and beef sausage with a natural casing.
And that's why, you know, they burst open as they cook and they have that sort of textural contrast between crisp and creamy.
Yes, yes, yes. And when you order at Rutz Hut, you have to tell them how crispy you want it.
The standard, if you just say, I want a hot dog, you'll get what's called a ripper, like Kenji said.
That's sort of like medium rare on the spectrum.
that's the default.
I asked Bill Chrisofinus, whose family owns Rutz, to lay out the other options.
We have what we call an in and outer, and the other extreme would be a cremator, which is essentially a petrified hot dog.
That's what the extremes are.
And what are the options in the middle?
Well, then you have medium, you have a weller, which is more well done, and there's different variations within that, you know?
Now I'm kind of a weller guy.
Right. Where do you fall on the spectrum?
I'm more of a weller guy as well, you know?
yeah but the cremator like to me is just a little bit you lose a little bit of the meat i feel like there's no a true cremator has no meat substance right you know it's that's why i bang the counter so they know that's what they're getting right you know but there's people that come here that get that regularly you know somebody that walks off the street for the first time and says i want to cream it it's not a true interpretation of what the dog is it's the extreme you don't go you know jumping off a cliff your first shot right we'll have more with bill in a minute but back at the table with my
parents and my cousin Andy, it was time to order.
I got two Wellers. They each had a regular Ripper.
My mom insisted on onion rings.
Then my dad reached way back into his childhood for his drink order.
And you want a Marvis?
Yes, I want a Marvis.
What's a Marvis again?
Yoo -hoo. You're going to have a Yoo -hoo?
It's a Yoo -hoo, which was Yogi Berra and Phil Rizzuto.
Wow. When's the last time you had a Yoo -hoo, Dad?
Oh, goodness. I've had one since I've been here, but it's still been a long time.
At Rutz Hut, they call Yoo -Hoo Marvis or Mavis because apparently that was the name of a similar local chocolate drink way back in the day.
They also call orange soda a Howdy after Howdy Doody, who had orange hair.
If you're too young to know Howdy Doody, let's just say it was on TV so long ago that Doody didn't mean Doody yet.
Anyway, pretty soon after we ordered, the food arrived.
All right, I'll have a sip of Yoo -Hoo.
Oh, my God, that is really good.
I forgot how good Yoo -Hoo is.
Your brother's on top of it.
All right, thank you.
Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
Thank you. Rutt's is also famous for their homemade relish.
It's a sweet yellow relish with chopped onions, no pickles, and it is the perfect complement to mustard. Oh, these are so good.
Let's go around the table.
First of all, what do you think of the hot dogs tonight?
Hot dogs are excellent.
The one thing they are here is consistent.
It's never any different.
It always tastes like what you expect it to taste.
Mom? Delicious. It's been so long.
Dad? I disagree with Andy.
It's delicious, but the memory is always better.
So you're a little older now, and the hot dogs aren't quite as amazing.
No, they're still great, but in memory, they'll never be as good.
Oh, I disagree. Mom, response?
I disagree. I think they're better because I love the relish.
There's something about that sweet relish and the crunchy hot dog and the onion rings.
It's special. Dad, response?
No response. butt. Yeah, it was pretty great.
While I was there, like I said, I wanted to talk to Bill Chrysophanes, whose family owns Rutt's.
They bought the place back in 1974.
But part of the deal was that they had to work there and train under Mr. Rutt.
He wouldn't turn the place over to Bill's family until he was sure they could make the hot dogs just like he made them.
Eventually, Mr. Rutt was satisfied.
And so were the customers.
The beauty of the establishment is you have a lot of nostalgia.
People of multiple generations like yourself, you know, coming here, bringing their kids.
The kids are bringing their kids, you know, four or five generations.
You know, everyone always points to that kid counter in the back there and says, Oh, I used to eat there when I was a kid.
You know, now they're with their grandkids.
I mean, it's a very homey feeling for people when they come here.
You know, and the beauty is that when they walk in, even if you haven't been here for 50 years, you bite into that ripper, man.
It takes you back 50 years.
I see it in their eyes.
It's like, wow, nothing changed.
You come here, 20 years from now, it's going to be the same.
If it's taken care of the right way, like we take care of it now, all children will be here working if they want to.
Do you have kids? Yes, one boy.
And does he come here and help out sometimes?
He's 11 years old, but when they come here, they grab a towel and they wipe the counters.
I tell them all the time, I was 13 years old bussing tables over here when my father bought the place, working with waitresses that were here 50 years.
Are you looking forward to your son working here more?
No, I'm indifferent to that.
I mean, I wouldn't deter my child from it.
You know, our parents wanted us to go to school, get education, stay out of the business because they came from, you know, Greece with nothing, and they worked their asses off to get to where they are.
So they wanted it to be, you know, a better life for us would be go to school, wear a shirt and a tie, and work, you know, five days instead of seven days or six days or you know.
So knowing that that's what your parents hoped for you how does it feel that?
Well we all went to school got our education but somehow some way twist of faith we wound up in the business.
I worked on Wall Street but you know what I came back to this.
What'd you do on Wall Street?
I was a stockbroker.
I didn't care for that.
Yeah. Called my father said I'm done.
Why? What do you like about this better?
I you know being a stockbroker you have to sit and talk to people that you know don't believe 90 % of the stuff that's coming out of your mouth.
working on this counter here.
No matter what I tell somebody, they know it's the God's honest truth.
I'm not a salesman.
I would never want to be a salesman.
I made that commitment 20 years ago when I said I'm not being a stockbroker.
So I'm going to sell something that I believe in and I believe in the product.
And that's the truth.
Thanks to Bill and everyone at Rutts Hut and to my parents and my cousin Andy That trip reminded me that I gotta get my kids to Rutts Hut.
My older daughter was there in utero, but I gotta get both of them there for real, because they love them some hot dogs Also, thanks to our friend Kenji Lopez -Alt, he writes the Food Lab column at serious eats he's also the author of the excellent cookbook the food lab better home cooking through science two quick reminders first send us your questions about etiquette relating to summer eating and drinking maybe it's barbecues beach food festival wherever you're at you got issues of etiquette email them to me dan at sporkful .com also sporkful live at the taste of chicago saturday july 9th 1 p
.m at the podcast tent free show open to everyone all ages see you there.
This show is a production of WNYC Studios and The Sporkful.
It's produced by me and Anne Sanney.
We get editing help from Shoshana Gold, engineering help from Chase Copen, music help from Black Label Music.
Special thanks to Paula Schumann.
Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
And I'm Susan Morville from Ann Arbor, Michigan.
And I'm Brittany from Rahway, New Jersey, reminding you to eat more, eat better, eat more better.
This reheat was produced by Kiana Palmer.
The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern, and senior producer Andres O 'Hara.
Our engineer is Jared O 'Connell.
The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher Studios.
Our executive producer is Camille Stanley.
And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app?
Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad -free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage.
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It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one.
And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXM .com slash Sporkful.
Till next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
Thank you.
