You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Ha Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushan in the studio.
Coming up, learning doesn't have to cost you a dime.
With skill exchange, people share what they know and gain new abilities in return.
Yoga for poetry? photography for dance, something like that.
Beyond skills, it's about connection, trust and discovery.
Can this mutual learning trend really satisfy our need to grow?
And Need a boost to crush the week?
Our special segment.
Motivational Monday is your ultimate adrenaline shot to kick things off strong.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts got a question that's keeping you curious, from social issues to tech and everything in between.
Let us take a stab at it.
Email us at roundtablepodcast qqcom.
Emails are fine, but voice memos are always a tad better because we get to share your voice with the world on roundtable.
Now let's move on to the next topic discussion today.
Picture this you want to learn something new, but classes are expensive and you're tired of doing it alone.
Enter a growing social trend that's flipping traditional learning on its head.
It's called skill swapping.
Instead of paying, people are trading skills teaching poetry in exchange for a yoga lesson, or exchanging coding tips for tennis drills.
It's not about earning certificates.
It's about stepping out of the daily grind and forming real connections.
But can this pay it forward?
Approach truly rival conventional ways of learning and, in a world where we're used to buying what we want, could trading time and talent be the key to meeting a deeper human need?
As bizarre as it might sound, what is trading skills?
Well, in simpler terms, it's simply a non-monetary and equal skill transaction that's purely based on interest.
And demand.
So skill exchange or skill swapping is a model where individuals they use their expertise, their best, say skills, to acquire new skills.
Someone might teach traditional Chinese painting and calligraphy in exchange for skateboarding lessons.
Or say, a jazz dancer might want to learn basic photography and in exchange teach the photographer how to dance jazz dances, I suppose.
Yeah.
It could be anything.
You can say anything on the A side and anything on the B side.
And it doesn't really matter as long as the two people are interested in sharing those skills with each other.
It's quite popular.
There was a report from Guangming Daily came out in August earlier.
And it had...
Topics that were related talked about the fact that it had garnered 32 million views online.
So on the local social media sites like Xiaohongshu or Red Note, the platform now there are 160000 posts about skill swapping.
People are getting into it.
I love the idea.
I mean, it's cost effective right, you don't have to pay for it.
Um, you get to learn something new.
You can um Hopefully, find someone whose skill level matches your skill level, so that I guess that's one of the potential problems.
Right.
So that people don't feel like they're being slighted a little bit.
But as long as everything works out.
You get that advantage and you could make a new friend.
Right.
It's another it's another cool way to socialize, too.
Yeah, it's just a cool way of interacting, as it sounds to me, because the very reason why I kind of specify on the fact that it's non monetary is because it's not a course that you're buying off from say, a educational facility or something.
It's just exchanging of hobbies, let's say.
I would say it's one reason why young people are so drawn to it nowadays.
Well, hobby or not, I mean, even if you do something professionally, as long as the other person wants to learn it from you, then cool.
And I love the fact that it can be absolutely anything at all.
You just have to go online and find out who your match is.
Well, tell us what platforms, where can you conduct this work activity?
Social, social platforms right, people post about their skills, so what they do well, and then they talk about the skill that they want to learn from someone else.
There was one who posted on a social platform saying I teach writing and And I want to learn pottery and yoga.
So cool if we match and completely flexible time which, by the way, is another great advantage of this.
Yeah, and apart from say, social platforms, there are also online groups that you can join, where participants can just be together in one skill exchange group and just chat about which say skills you have and just meet someone with a similar interest within that group.
That's very convenient in so many ways.
And also there are say, online communication and skill assessments, that after finding potential partners, there's A simple online communication and skill assessment between the two partners to just confirm the compatibility and just how to arrange the follow up exchanges, how to make it practically happen in real life.
So practically happen in real life means you have to meet up in person more often than not.
Yeah, so they have their online interactions in the beginning and then that moves to offline events, right?
Shanghai, for example, they host what they call skill exchange labs.
That's pretty cool.
Beijing expands to include idle, item exchange and story sharing, which is another kind of twist on this gathering of strangers.
Shenzhen, they have skill exchange conferences.
That sounds like a really big organized event.
And they have other social gatherings too.
And all of these things, they just bring people, young people together.
It doesn't have to be young people.
It can be anybody.
But young people are really into this.
They come from various industries.
They've got diverse skill sets.
And they come together for for this exchange.
Yeah.
It's all about getting down to face to face interactions eventually.
Right.
Yeah.
And why is it so popular these days?
I think one leading reason, coming back to my first point, is that it's not monetary included and it's kind of have this low entry background there that you can just go and learn something, meet up with people and cultivate new hobbies or improve yourself at a relatively low or even zero cost.
But don't get me wrong here.
It's not really about how young people don't want to spend money on say, cultivating genuine hobbies, but rather that we refuse to say pay for the premium.
Premium?
So yeah, it's kind of like decommercializing this interaction, bring just very little say, pressure between such interactions and just learn something and have fun about just merely learning, without worrying about oh, how practical I need to get on this, how some certificate I need to get after this course, but rather just focus on the fun part of learning itself.
I think the flexibility is a huge advantage too, right?
If you sign up for a class, evening classes have become really popular, right?
We talked about that, where people from communities are going to institutions in the evening time to take a class in something.
But when and that's great.
Those are wonderful.
Just like at the gym, if you sign up for a trainer or whatever, or if you take any other type of organized class, you're on a schedule.
Right.
And life is busy and you never know what's going to happen.
Things pop up from time to time.
If that's the case, you can organize the time with your partner, with your skill partner, and arrange a time that's perfect for you both.
That completely takes the pressure off, right?
I think a lot of times I don't have stats on that, but I think a lot of times people will sign up for stuff online for classes for like a month or something and then you get some big project and work and they miss four classes and then they think, oh no, I've already missed four, I'm just not gonna go yeah, at all.
Right this, this kind of eliminates that possibility, especially for online courses.
It happens all the time, like it for my case.
I try to learn how to use PS, the Photoshop software, and I started to miss like more and more classes and just kills the confidence of me thinking that I can master it eventually, so I just gave it up.
But with skill exchanging.
For example, if I can teach someone to use Audition, which is a say, audio processing software, and in exchange I get to learn about Photoshop, I think that's perhaps going to be less of a barrier or less of a psychological pressure for me to try to maintain it as a long-term hobby.
They do this.
I think this is in the States actually, where they have this on-demand skill exchange platform.
They do it a little bit differently though.
So what you do there is you go online and you create your profile, right?
So you detail like who you are and your skills and your expertise.
And then you also list the types of things that you're looking for in return.
So that sounds pretty similar to the way things are happening here in China, right?
But this is where it gets different.
So they have what is called a skill wallet.
So the users of the platform accumulate skill credits that can be used to request services from others.
So if I go on there and I complete a task completing a task would mean meeting with someone and exchanging my skill I will get a credit.
And when I get that credit, I can take that credit and spend it somewhere else, right?
And that's how the economy of that kind of works.
And then you get reviewed.
The pressure is on now.
It's kind of like Yelp.
I don't know how the negative review system works there, but you'll get a review like oh yeah, this person was great, great teacher, had a great time with them.
I would happily recommend them to hang out with.
So it's a little similar but a little bit different too.
And this is a huge social aspect embedded in it.
I think, Steve, you were very spot on in recognizing that.
And these days Also just in big cities, everywhere it feels like people really want to expand their social circles and build deep connections.
It's like we're all so used to living on the internet thanks to our smartphone and, on the one hand, you see online communication rise and keeps rising, that kind of thing, but on the other hand or maybe the flip side of it is that No human is a lonely island and we still want offline connection and this is one of the ways to build that.
It's starting to feel like to me, people are starting to come out of their shell again, right?
COVID, things shut down.
People got used to being alone.
People got used to the internet being their best friend.
But now humans need humans, right?
It's human nature.
We know that.
So now people seem seems like they're they're getting to that socializing factor again.
It's just how do now how do we want to socialize?
I don't want to walk up to somebody in the street and say hello, so I need a good excuse, right?
I need some sort of reason to hang out with somebody new.
This provides the perfect reason.
And also it's such a big thing that i just came to realize that you think you know a skill so well, but it's totally another thing when you're trying to teach it.
I think as a teacher steve, you probably knows that better than all of us.
When you try to teach a language let's say, For example, when I'm trying to introduce basic Chinese terms to my English-speaking friends it's so hard.
I speak Chinese all the time, but it's so hard to make sense to them what it means to us.
Because they don't speak Chinese all the time.
But you bring up a really good point there.
You might be a great student.
This is an exchange.
So if you're on the receiving end and you're loving it, but you're a terrible teacher, there's a potential problem there.
Yes, and that's definitely a problem.
But what about...
Other problems.
Okay, I think the one thing I can think of is it's kind of a a bet.
You know that, because actually meeting somebody offline it sounds like a lot of work these days.
And, you know, you're you're meeting up with this person, right?
And there could be some potential issues that arise from that.
For example, I would say that for these kind of Swapping, I would expect to get an entry level introductory, say conversation on a skill, instead of just expecting that I can be a professional, say photoshop, just within one week of learning with this person that I'm swapping skills with.
So there's this balance you have to maintain, like how much of an anticipation you're bearing for your partner.
Oh, I didn't think about that.
Yeah, different expectations, right?
Mm-hmm.
I was more worried about meeting a weirdo.
I think for a lot of women, yeah, we, and also like meet up in a public space.
I don't think it's, Just don't invite a stranger to your home.
Oh, one million percent do not do that.
Yeah, because this is like one-on-one.
I'm not familiar with the platform, but maybe there are group options as well.
But it sounds like it's one-on-one.
So, you know, daytime...
Public space.
Yeah, yeah.
Try to know as much about the person you're meeting beforehand.
Yeah, and tell a friend, your family, oh, I'm meeting up with this stranger.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a world driven by transactions, trading time and talent highlights a simple truth.
Growth is richest when it's mutual and the exchange of skills isn't just practical.
It's a small but meaningful way to satisfy our deeper need to belong and contribute if done.
Can I give one more warning?
Go ahead.
Don't suck at what you say you're going to do, right?
Like, if you say this is one of your strongest skills, make sure it's a strong skill, because otherwise you're probably going to get a lot of complaints from people.
Be honest about yourself.
Might not get so many customers.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday.
Motivational Monday.
Steve, take it away.
Yeah, I don't know if Henry Ford actually said this or not, but he is the person they say who said this.
So I like this quote, and it's connected to learning, right?
We just talked about learning.
Anyone who stops learning is old.
Whether at 20 or 80, anyone who keeps learning stays young.
I really like this.
I look to my parents for inspiration on being active in writing.
Old age.
My parents are in their mid-80s, and my mom still has her clothing shop.
She goes to work every day.
My dad still putters here and there around the beach house and things like that.
They are constantly active.
They never stop moving.
And they are the two most youthful kids, mid 80s people I know.
They're also the only mid 80s people I know, but still I see that as a key to longevity.
Keep learning.
Keep working.
Keep active.
Keep using your brain.
Because in life, there aren't too many things that are within your control.
But learning new things is within your control.
So why not do it?
Oh, and it's true.
Curiosity keeps us young.
Staying curious, seeking new skills like you mentioned or like we talked about and embracing change keeps our perspectives fresh, no matter our age.
And for all Chinese people out there, we know this saying by Confucius.
Among any three people, there's always something to learn.
Some teach you, some challenge you, and some inspire you if you're willing to pay attention.
That's why This is a callback to today's second topic.
Exchanging skills with others isn't just about learning.
It's about connecting, growing together, and discovering new perspectives.
I'm really grateful for all the people I've known at work And in life.
Some showed me the way, and even the really difficult ones taught me how not to be sharpening my vision for my own path forward.
So yeah, that's what I want to share with you.
And now Yushan, your turn.
I'm going to share a story quite briefly that happened kind of recently.
So just a couple of weeks ago, my colleagues, they came across a tiny six-month-old kitten that's wandering in the neighborhood nearby.
And you know how much of a cat person I am and we are in some way.
And after asking around we realized that this kitten he had most likely been abandoned into the neighborhood and at first we kind of hesitated because maybe his owner was still looking for him or perhaps someone else with better conditions will be there that's better suited to take him inside.
But one evening, do you guys remember like how big of a rainstorm we encountered one week ago?
During that very evening, in that heavy rainstorm, my colleague who spotted this kitten in the first place, she just stopped debating and she just scooped the kitten up, gave him a warm shower and welcomed him into her already crowded home where four other cats live.
That she also rescued?
Three of them are.
Yeah, that's very kind of her to have decided on that.
But the space was tight.
Just very luckily that in the last part of a couple of days, let's say, one of her family members eventually offered to take the kitten to a bigger home and giving him the safe, permanent place that he deserves.
So one takeaway from this A very recent experience of us, of me, of my colleague would be that I think keeping a pet is far more than just having something to accompany you after you get back home.
It's a promise.
It's a promise that every pet keeper Whoever deems yourself as a pet keeper should be keeping.
It's about caring, protecting and respecting another life form as equally as how you treat other human beings.
And for cats and dogs, and any other animals that we call pets, loyalty is simple for them.
They just wait there in the same spot where they were left, hoping that you'll return or hoping that their quote unquote owners are going to invite them back home sometime later, but never get to see them anytime soon.
So that's why, if you choose to bring a pet into your life, just Be careful and honor that commitment.
And if you're not ready for such a responsibility, don't easily invite a pet in door, thinking that you're capable of offering a life that they deserve.
Yeah, if you abandon your pet, you're a horrible person.
It's as simple as that.
And yes, circumstances do arise, unexpected circumstances.
But if that happens, then do things in a responsible manner, in a mature responsible, humanistic manner.
I know that cat, by the way.
I know that cat.
Yeah, that cat is hung out around here sometimes.
And I kind of became friends with him.
And I don't like cats.
I'm not really a cat person.
I'm a dog person.
But this cat, you know, sometimes people say, oh, that cat acts like a dog.
Those are the cats that I like, and this cat is super friendly.
Yeah.
And this cat acts like a dog.
Like, when he sees you, he's like, oh, hey, comes over.
He says, oh, hey.
Yeah, in my mind, he does.
But really, really friendly.
And then he disappeared and I wondered what happened to him, and then I'm glad that Our co-worker was able to find him a home.
That's good news.
Pets aren't accessories.
Disposable.
Let's say, yeah.
They're something that deserves our humble treatment and also respect in my accord.
They're our friends, they're family.
So if you choose to invite a family member, you don't just simply throw them on the street.
Yeah, and always adopting rather than buying when it comes to pets.
Also, Yushan, you can hear from her voice how passionate she feels about little animals.
And I think that is something that many of us share.
And thank you so much for sharing.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you, Steve and Yushan, for joining the discussion.
I'm He Yang.
We'll see you next time.
