You're listening to Roundtable with myself He Young.
I'm joined by Yuxuan and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Coming up, it used to be that if you wanted to get in touch with someone, you'd call them up and have a good old -fashioned conversation.
But times have changed.
Nowadays, apparently young people are not answering the phone, period.
Why do younger generations seem allergic to answering the phone?
And how is this affecting communication?
And is your name tag just your name in the office?
Boring! Let's talk about how Gen Z is spicing things up with crazy name tags where puns, exaggerated titles, and office humor take center stage.
What would your crazy name tag say?
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast.
You can reach us via email Roundtable Podcast at QQ .com.
And now, let's switch it up and explore another intriguing topic.
If someone knocks on your door, you're likely to answer it.
If someone greets you in the street, perhaps you will reply with a friendly hello or an e -how.
But what if someone calls you on the phone?
Are you likely to answer it?
Maybe, maybe not, right?
It seems these days that Gen Z, born between 1997 and 2012, and millennials, born between 1981 and 1996, are more inclined to just let that phone ring and never pick it up.
So what does this survey say?
Can we trust it? Well, this was done by a company that compares prices, they're called USwitch, it's a website, and they surveyed 2 ,000 people.
And what they found was that a quarter of people aged 18 to 34 never answer the phone.
And the people who responded in the survey, which I guess was not done by telephone, obviously, they said that they ignore the phone ringing and they'll respond via text and they'll search the number online if they don't recognize it.
I want to stop there immediately and just ask you if you do any of these things.
Yushuan, you're a member of Gen Z Azumar.
You say it first, please.
Oh, yeah, first of all, I am so glad that so many topics of ours are so focusing on Gen Z and talking about it.
But I don't think I am the one who will not answer the phone.
I think I'll just pick it up and see, okay, who's calling me and what is so urgent?
Because yeah, maybe that is something that we're going to talk about later.
I'm writing down the word urgent.
Yes, when you're having a phone call, it means something that is urgent to find you.
That's what, jokes aside, that's what a phone call means to you.
Something serious is happening.
Well, I'm a member of the millennial generation and I like answering phones.
I chat with my best friend on the phone to work and I have my phone connected via Bluetooth in my car and it's really nice.
But I don't chat with strangers, obviously.
And often if it's a strange phone number, then I still pick up, but I would think probably spam call.
Okay. I think you will not only answer the phone, you are the one that like to make phone calls or calling people.
If it's somebody that I care about, then yes, I'd love to get that person a phone call.
I'm in neither of the age groups that you previously mentioned and I do not like talking on the phone.
Why not? I really don't like it for different reasons.
The phone gets hot when you hold it in your hand.
How long is the phone call?
That's my point. And then in my opinion, everything can be done through a quick text, right?
So it's more comfortable for me to communicate that way.
Let me ask you that question.
Do you prefer a phone call or a text?
Depends on what the matter is.
In a vacuum. Text. Okay.
I would say phone call because phone call is just clearer and you can give the information and the other one can receive the information more directly.
And then information passed.
No possibility of misunderstanding.
Which can sometimes happen with text messages, particularly if the text message is...
You need to simulate your emotion while you were texting, even give you maybe with some emojis or something like that.
Hence the rise of emoticons, right?
70 % of people who responded in this survey of 18 to 34 years old said that they prefer a text to a telephone call.
70 % of people said they prefer a text.
And the reason for the change, you know, people used to talk on the phone all the time.
If we think back to when cell phones and smartphones became ubiquitous, that was like the late 2000s, early 2010s, I guess.
You know, that's when everybody had to or started to have a smartphone and definitely had a cell phone.
The first iPhone came out in 2007.
The Android operating system came in 2008.
And then that's when smartphones revolutionized the cell phone industry.
But back in 2007, that was the first time in Americans history that they received more texts than phone calls.
So that culture started to build at that time.
And also, it used to be more expensive to make a phone call than send a text message.
Right. So that played into the beginning of this culture of texting instead of calling.
It used to be really expensive to make a phone call back in the day.
But regardless of the high cost, it was just better to text than to call.
Now think about this.
Young people had these cell phones.
This is something that I didn't take into consideration until I was preparing for this conversation.
So young people had these cell phones and it was new for them, right?
But they also lived with their parents at home.
Okay. Now imagine in the evening time, you're a 13 year old, you've got a cell phone and you're on the phone with your friends.
What are your parents going to say if you've been on the phone for two hours?
Get off the phone. So you do.
And then what do you do?
You don't want to stop talking to your friend.
So what do you do? You go online.
You text them. And that began, that gave birth to a generation of texters as opposed to a generation of callers.
And I think that's why we're seeing the numbers now.
And also on top of that, don't forget with the prevalence of WhatsApp or in China, we use WeChat, then in our minds, texting and calling have both become free, although you're paying for your internet data package, obviously.
But it's really interesting as we're preparing for this show, I've realized I used to think because I'm kind of an old fashioned kind of gal.
So I used to think that yes, I'm all for calling because I love human connection, that kind of thing.
But then I realized no, not completely because on WeChat, you know, there's the calling function as well as sort of like video call slash FaceTime kind of option.
So you've got these two as well as messaging.
And for most of the time, I say 99 percent of the time, I definitely prefer texting because calling, it has to be something it's like the sky's falling down or something huge is happening.
Then you can call me.
Otherwise, it's almost like this person has the audacity to think that he or she demands my attention at this moment.
How inconsiderate is that?
And you shouldn't said the word urgent before, right?
Let's talk about that.
Dr. Elena Toroni is a consultant psychologist and Dr.
Toroni explained and this is connected to what I said before about the birth of a generation of texters as opposed to callers.
Dr. Toroni explained that because young people didn't develop the habit of talking on the phone when they were young and now these people are in their mid 20s, early 30s, right?
Because they didn't do it before.
Now it feels weird.
It feels weird to that group to talk on the phone.
And if they do get a phone call from a friend, something must be wrong.
So it's got to be an urgent thing.
It's got to be a serious thing.
Otherwise, why would you be calling me?
That's kind of the feeling connected with phone calls these days for the Genzis.
Yes, actually, from these results, we can see it's not only happening in England.
It is kind of a global phenomenon.
What we're talking about is kind of an anxiety when you are seeing a phone call is coming.
So this actually is a hashtag on Chinese social media.
Oh, really? Yes. The hashtag, the phone anxiety alone has over 150 ,000 posts on this Chinese social media platforms.
True in China, too, then, isn't it?
And as we've talked about it on TikTok, there are thousands of videos on this topic with hashtags, including phone anxiety, how phone anxiety feels and more are also trending on TikTok.
So what we can see is that a lot of young people, they actually have that kind of anxiety, not only because of, okay, the phone calling is pricey because we are using internet to make phone calls right now.
It's also because they will create anxiety for them as long as they see a phone call is coming.
Yep. Psychotherapist Aloy Skinner said an association with a phone call is a sense of foreboding or dread, dread when your phone rings.
How about this one?
This is another result from the survey.
37 percent of 18 to 34 year olds say voice notes are their preferred way of communication.
So sending each other to these voice messages?
Yeah, because what they took away from the survey is that just because young people don't enjoy speaking on the phone with each other, it doesn't mean that they don't enjoy communicating with each other.
But instead of having that telephone conversation, they like to send voice notes so that, number one, they can still communicate with their friends.
But number two, they can still get to hear their friends voice as well.
And that's an interesting thing because I feel or my gut feeling tells me that in China, people might have different thoughts about this.
Also, it depends on how many voice notes slash voice messages this person is sending.
I used to think that people would have this caution in our minds.
And this is also called communication etiquette in 2024.
That is, if you're sending voice notes, you send less than three if you're maxing the length, no more than that.
Otherwise, you're voice bombing somebody.
Absolutely. I'm really thankful that on WeChat they have this dictation function that because sometimes you're in a meeting or you're in a place that you can't play these voice notes out loud, but it can write it out for you.
I think that's great.
But sometimes, and may I say it's often with the older generation, they send you voice notes and it can bombard you.
It keeps going and going.
Like 20. Like or 10.
10 is 60 second voice.
Nobody's going to listen to that.
You know, folks, we should just let everybody know if you send more than three, nobody's going to listen to it.
Do you know why young people said that they prefer voice notes?
I thought this was really interesting.
This is a quote from a 19 year old student named Susie Jones.
She said, a voice note is just like talking on the phone, but it's better.
You get the benefit of hearing your friend's voice, but it comes with no pressure.
So it's a more polite way of communicating.
Young people feel like there's pressure associated with talking on the phone because it's in real time.
Yes. So that what you say to me, it I'm required through the laws of our communication society to respond to you immediately without careful preparation, but that's why they feel so pressured.
Yeah, that's exactly what I try to say, because I think the core issue of these phone cause or phone anxiety actually lies in the uncertainty and the lack of control associated with real time phone calls, because if you're just texting somebody in written communication, people can carefully craft their
responses and avoid awkward pauses.
I know, I get it. I understand what you're saying, but I still see this as problematic.
Are we getting to a point now where it's awkward and uncomfortable and it gives us anxiety if we have to communicate in real time with another person?
That doesn't seem like we're headed in the right direction, but especially on the phone, you know, they are hitting you a phone call and you are just out of nowhere getting some information.
I need to respond to you like two seconds later.
Yeah, it's called a phone call.
It's it's not a weird thing.
May I offer maybe different case scenarios and people have different responses and feelings.
For example, if I'm talking to my best friend and if let's say you have a great relationship with your mom and when they call you, you're like, yeah, I want to talk.
Yeah, we can go on forever.
And I'm not worrying about your response or my response because we're close like this.
And you know that your mom is not going to think of you any less if you said something wrong or your pause is too long and you know your bestie will understand.
But if it's your boss calling you and I saw this on Chinese social media, apparently young people hate the most when the phone call is about work and they far rather prefer to be texted work related stuff.
And for what reason?
Number one, if it's formulated via text, via writing, then it's clearer, more logical.
So you get what exactly what it wants you to do.
And also, apparently, people would rather have a slightly more detached feeling association towards work in everyday life.
So just send me a text or email.
People don't really email in China.
But anyway, so with technology, you know, like you're setting a kind of buffering area in a way, but also it's very convenient.
And the problem is sometimes not always your boss is of a different generation or your colleague is of a different generation.
And we'll call you as is the case with James Holton, who is a 64 year old business owner.
And James Holton has had to adjust on the fly because he says his younger employees rarely respond to phone calls.
They don't want to answer the phone when their boss calls.
He says he'll get either a default message that says they're busy or they put his number on to a diverted call.
So the call never goes through.
And then he said they always use the same excuse.
Oh, do you want to take a guess at this excuse, by the way, before I give it?
Oh, I have diarrhea.
Oh, my gosh. No, that is not the excuse given.
I mean, I'm eating.
No, the excuse given always is, ah, sorry, my phone was on silent and I didn't see that you called.
That's the number one go to excuse.
But what he said, you know, he's not angry about it because he knows that his younger employees are more comfortable communicating in a different way than he grew up communicating and he's perfectly OK with them.
And I wonder if you guys have some thoughts about the implications of technology on the way we communicate.
Do you think that we're going to lose or have reduced interpersonal skills or, you know, I think we're seeing that now.
I think what Covid did to young people was really quite damaging.
And this is just my personal opinion.
You know, that's a time of life when people are learning how to interact with others socially, how to get along with others well, how to fight with others, how to date, how to break up and Covid stopped all of that life stopped for a couple of years.
And I think that was a growth opportunity for those two years that young people lost.
And I think now, you know, combined with what I said before about young people back in 2007, 2010, where they were, you know, get off the phone, send a text message instead that combined with living alone essentially for a couple of years has set them back.
Is that too harsh to say?
But it seems like, you know, when we're talking about people are getting like a panic attack or feeling super anxious when your phone rings, I think we should be dealing with this if we can.
But I was thinking still the reason why they're feeling so anxious about these phone calls.
One thing that I would think of is a lot of times they need to make decisions on that phone call.
But a lot of times when you are just answering that call simultaneously while making a decision, it's not rational.
And that moment you are making a decision, maybe just come out of your mind and maybe, especially when, you know, there is a phone call, OK, maybe you have a package that you need to order.
Do you like that? OK, at that moment, nothing is wrong with that package.
Maybe I should order that.
But maybe after five to 10 minutes of thinking about it, I should not buy that.
Yeah, right. And that's a very fair point.
That's a very fair point.
Yeah. But does that mean people don't communicate?
No, I'm not going to text you in the office anymore.
I'm just going to call you every single time I need to talk to you.
And Steve, I'm going to level up.
You know what? I'm not going to even reach for my phone.
I'm going to walk towards your desk.
Nobody does that anymore either.
Instead, right behind you.
Hi, Steve, tap on the shoulder.
So there it is. Your phone, ironically, has become a thing that we use for everything but calling people.
But I think one takeaway from all of this is if you are dealing with someone from a different generation, when it comes to phone calls, just remember that they may have a different preference in the way they communicate.
So maybe try a little to understand them.
And that applies to older and younger people.
You're listening to Roundtable coming up, seeing the crazy name tag trend blowing up on Xiaohongshu, China's Instagram.
These tags aren't just names.
They're full of personality humor and a bit of workplace sass.
If you could create your own, what would it be?
Stay tuned. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's the Hour of Roundtable.
For myself He Young, I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shen.
On Xiaohongshu, China's Instagram, a new office trend called crazy name tags is taking off.
Unlike the usual name tags that display a person's name and job title, these feature playful, often outrageous phrases that capture the quirks and frustrations of modern work life.
It's become a fun way for young professionals to bring personality into the office.
So how crazy are these name tags?
OK, so traditionally, when we're thinking about name tags, they're just in some professional settings display a person's name and job title and maybe sometimes a photo on it.
But these crazy name tags actually deviate from this norm by featuring some playful and humorous or expressive phrases with a lot of these wordplay or pun based on their surnames and exaggerated job titles.
I know there's a long list of items to actually reflect this creator's work experience or attitude or their frustrations and quirks of their modern work life.
Question. Sorry to interrupt.
Do people in the office in Chinese companies typically wear name tags?
Not to my knowledge, but there must be some companies that do.
Yeah, most of the companies have their ID cards of their job, but I don't think they are required to wear them.
Yeah, right. So the reason I ask that is this is purely meant for fun, right?
I think so. Some of them are put on the desk of their office and then to show people like this is kind of a label that I'm creating.
I got it. Yes. And I was wondering, I think I have a pretty standard name.
I couldn't really think of a crazy name tag for myself.
I would like it to be crazily talented, beautiful, outstanding with great hair.
Sounds like you put a.
Are you sure? It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this already.
Yes. Yeah. So to be honest, I actually we can't call her that.
I actually before the show created a name tag for you guys.
Oh, OK. So I'm Steve.
All right. So what do we want to hear yours or mine first?
Well, I'll be the humble.
I'll wait. OK, so Steve, your full name is Stephen Hatherly, right?
Stephen Hatherly. So I created this Steve Phenomeno for you.
Steve Phenomeno. Yeah.
How's it? What does that mean?
Stephen and Phenomenal.
Oh, the combination of Phenomenal.
Is that hard? All right.
That's really good.
Phenomenal. OK, I'm really jealous.
Do I have one, too?
Of course. Oh, so what's mine?
So you've got a young forever, which means a young and young forever.
Oh, oh, I love that.
I love that. So I think I am trying to use these examples also complimenting each of you to show our listeners that how this works, they are trying to use this puns of these words and integrating their surnames or names into it to make people feel like, OK, this is such a good pun that you're using
this word and also your name into it.
Oh, now I feel bad.
I don't have an awesome one for Yuxuan.
You should be Feng, Feng Piao Yuxuan, great guy.
Good try. What are some examples of some of the names that are going viral just so we can get an idea of what's going on here?
Yeah, so mostly they're using some of these self mocking humorous ways to use this.
One example is Ling Shi Gong.
The pronunciation Ling can refer to the word Ling, which means woods, but we actually don't need to translate it into Chinese because this is actually a surname of this guy.
But Ling Shi Gong means an intern or a temporary worker.
So in this way, they're trying to say, OK, I am just working temporarily here and I can leave whenever I'm here for a short time.
Yes, I'm here for a good time, not a long time.
Yes. But actually integrating his surname and also another one, Zhu Duiyou.
This here, I think the surname is Zhu.
It is a common surname in Chinese.
But Zhu can also be translated as pig in Chinese.
So maybe in this way, they're trying to say I am being the dumb one and being the piggy teammate that you will have because Duiyou means teammate.
So I am also teammate Zhu or teammate Pig.
So in this way, try to self mock himself.
A pigmate. That could be kind of cute in a strange way.
So basically, this is playing with the words, a linguistic phenomenon called homophony.
It refers to words that sound the same but have different meanings.
And in Chinese poetry, while here in everyday life, as an example, people use it all the time.
I get why this has gone viral on social media.
This is really cute.
Should we start to try this trend in our office?
I wonder if it would take off or not.
Only if you can think of a good one like Steve Phenomenal and the Guoyang forever.
Why do you think this is happening in Chinese offices?
Does it capture a subtle sentiment that people are trying to say something without actually saying it?
I wouldn't know. What do you think, Yuxia?
Of course, they are trying to, first of all, express themselves.
And most of these name tags are reflecting some emotions that I am the one who is working so much.
And I am trying to use a kind of self mocking way to express themselves.
And this often resonates well on social media and can lead to laughter.
When integrated into the workplace, it feels more relatable and enjoyable for everyone because they think, yes, I am feeling the same as maybe the supervisors are always calling me or a teammate pig.
But actually, I am using this way humorously and trying to say it by myself so that it's not that awkward.
Yeah. There's two aspects here.
I said I wouldn't know because I haven't worked for many Chinese companies in a lot of different offices here.
But if I had to guess, I would say, number one, it's a bit of self -deprecating humor, which means making fun of yourself first, which is always popular in standup comedy.
So it makes sense that it would be popular here.
And then I think, too, if you work in an office in China or Japan or France or South Africa or wherever, it can get a little boring, perhaps, from time to time.
So the teammates just try to come up with a fun idea to make each other laugh.
I think that's happening here, too.
Crazy name tags. Try that.
Or maybe not. Depends on your office culture, too.
You should never leave this company.
Never say never. Well, that sounded like a threat, not a compliment.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Thank you, Steve Hatherly, and you should, for joining the discussion.
I'm He Young. We'll see you next time.
