You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Niu Honglin, joined by Steve and Yishan.
Coming up soon, what does camping at minus 30 degrees Celsius mean to you?
Survival training?
Daredevil adventure?
Well, today it is becoming a wintertime vacation option.
With self-powered heaters, stove-jack tents and multi-layer insulation systems, extreme cold has been transformed from a barrier into a selling point.
Join Roundtable to find out how to make your next winter camping comfortable, safe and fully under control.
And a hotel bed today serves many roles.
It's a place to sleep, but also where guests read, work, watch TV, or recover from long flights.
Pillows become tools, not just for the head, but for backs, legs, arms, and postures.
Is that why we often get four pillows in a standard hotel room?
What are some other fun hidden facts behind this four pillow rule?
Let's discuss.
But before that, winter is having its main character moment.
Around the world, travelers are ditching crowded summer beaches for snow-covered plains and frozen forests.
Think minus 30 degrees, camping carnivals in northeast China or quiet, pine-heavy wilderness deep in South America.
Winter camping isn't some hardcore endurance test anymore.
It is officially going mainstream.
And here is the twist.
This isn't about suffering for bridging rights.
With high-tech gear like stove jack tents, snow skirts and self-powered heaters.
Extreme cold has been remembered as comfort, calm and even therapy.
There are so many keywords in this paragraph that I don't fully understand or haven't at least experienced for myself.
But definitely we see this new winter travel emerging in places, especially in northern China.
And let's find out how come it's becoming a really popular trend.
So when we speak about winter tourism, the most often mentioned keywords are skiing, skating or, you know, playing around in the ice and snow world.
But apparently now there is a new one winter camping.
That's becoming a new travel phenomenon in china, especially in places like northeastern china with a very low temperature in their snow-covered playing.
So this one in the city of chichi har, the one you mentioned, the winter carnival, that's where it's.
So this is the fourth Northeast Camping Carnival.
And it was held from January the 12th to the 18th.
And it saw over a thousand tents blossoming across the frozen plains.
I saw the picture.
It was so impressive.
Those people.
Blossoming.
Yeah, they were.
Stuck.
I appreciate the colorful language.
That's not true. perhaps not what they feel anymore.
We'll discuss why.
I think I'm expressing that's how I would feel if I were inside one of those.
Especially when you're imagining it to not experiencing it.
We're not turning a very warm and fun travel vibe to a sci-fi or horror movie side, just so to speak.
I mentioned there are over a thousand tents.
That's marking the highest attendance since it was launched three to four years ago.
So What people can do out there is that it's held in this place called Hala Village in the Melissi Dower ethnic district in Xichihar in northeast China's Heilongjiang province.
So one of the highlights locally was for the dower villagers to warmly host a village feast.
And they perform local intangible cultural heritage singing, which I found a clip online too, is very interesting nomadic kind of singing with language that I couldn't understand but still sounds like something that's really quickly emerging into the air and everybody can just share the happy and welcoming vibe throughout the singing and the dancing.
They also offer steaming dumplings and traditional soups to the the travelers there, and it aims to combine camping with the dour folk, custom ice sports and even local culinary traditions and visitors.
They can also walk through the local markets.
There will be people explaining what we grow here and what we produce here, and even buy from them as well.
So that's a whole lot of things to do in just six days.
Yeah, it's a unique experience.
And I think the temperature, as extreme as it sounds, you know, up to minus 30.
Chichihar, is that north of, maybe you don't know, is that north of Harbin?
It's pretty north.
It's got to be up there somewhere if it's minus 30.
But I was going to say I think the temperature actually matches what they're trying to do with the theme of this kind of event, right?
Because if it were just like temperatures that we experience here in Beijing, like maybe down to minus two or three or something like that, it wouldn't feel as Impressive.
Or dramatic.
So I think it kind of goes along nicely.
You get the steaming dumplings cold outside in that frozen temperature, hot soups, local singing and dancing and local markets where you can buy their products as well.
Yeah, I think it makes it all the more romantic in a sense, poetically speaking.
It definitely is.
And if you really think about it, it kind of makes sense for the places that have been enduring the level of coldness that we're talking about constantly, that is, minus 30 degrees Celsius.
They are good at keeping themselves warm.
And they are really good in the sense that if you're out there for five seconds, you can just, you know turn yourself into a human popsicle.
Yet, if you're indoor, you do not have to wear too many layers anymore.
You can wear a t-shirt because the indoor area is really cozy.
So it would be appreciating the winter view from the window, yet also enjoying the summer level of temperature indoor.
What's the coldest temperature you've ever felt?
Do you know the answer to that question?
For me, it was minus 33, and that was in Canada, which is...
It's horrifically cold.
But if you are dressed appropriately which if you're from Canada or if you're from Chichihara I'm sure you have the proper clothing.
If you have the right clothing, even though it's minus 30 outside, it really it doesn't feel that bad.
The only things that you'll notice are when you breathe in through your nose, your nostrils will stick together and also yeah seriously, tiny little flakes on your your, your own eyelash.
If you blink for too long they might stick a little bit a little yes, but the point is, if you have the right clothing, then you're totally fine, and that's for outside.
Inside, if you've got the right gear, then you're going to be okay as well.
And the gear is really improving these days.
They've got stoves that can charge your phone.
They have specialized fabrics that are designed to keep you nice and warm and dry on the inside as well.
I looked up one of these phone charging stoves earlier today because I had never seen one before.
It's a self-powered diesel heater.
And it's a little tiny thing.
And on one side of it, that's where the flame will come out.
And then in the front of it, totally separate from that, is where you have your charging station.
I had the wrong image in my mind.
I thought like putting your phone on top of the stove.
Don't do that.
Don't.
Yeah, right.
Don't do that.
I was wrong.
But yeah, all these cool little gadgets help to make the experience more enjoyable too.
And one experience or one journey is with all these different types of labels.
It's in extreme cold, yet you do not have to suffer from that cold.
You can stay indoor in the indoor area even, especially if you're from the southern part of China.
The indoor would be much warmer than your own home, because in your own home, if you're not turning the AC on, it's still quite relatively cold in winter days, even if you live in the relatively southern part of the country.
And also you can enjoy local culture, you can enjoy some intangible cultural heritage item.
And also, if you are interested, you can also step out of the tent and enjoy some winter sports-related fun.
And all that combined is the precise reason that attracts so many people now this winter to enjoy this kind of winter camping.
Some people are coming from really far away.
There were people who reportedly drove from as far as 3,000 kilometers south.
They came from Guangdong way down south and drove all that way, all the way up to Chichihar, just for the experience, because this person, i believe, is reported by many media as a very, if not extreme, example of just how camping enthusiasts love to experience different things under different climates.
So yeah, this person apparently got a very happy result because he said he has tried all kinds of camping scenarios back home in Guangdong but the snow is something that they just simply don't have because of the subtropical climate down south in China.
So yeah, he drove six days just to experience the nomadic culture in the snow-covered plain so far away from home.
Yeah, I saw that guy. using an in-tent furnace.
Can you imagine?
They have a furnace, a fireplace, literally a wood-burning furnace with a pipeline leading the smoke outside.
That's so cool.
It does sound very romantic.
So are we seeing the trend only in China, or other countries are embracing this winter camping as well?
Well, I know in Canada people do it.
My university roommate, shout out to Teddy, one of my good friends.
He still does it these days.
He's from Labrador.
Look that up on a map if you don't know where that is.
It's north of Quebec in Canada.
Really, really cold winters there.
You'll be shocked.
Sometimes it's rare, but sometimes minus 70.
Yeah.
No, it's not suitable for human living.
I've told him to move repeatedly, but he really likes it there.
Anyway, he, um, in the winter time, which is only a few months a year, they do have summer as well.
Uh, in the winter time he he likes to go ice fishing on his cabin and it's.
It's everything you've basically just described stove inside and things like that, except it's a little mini cabin on the ice instead of a tent.
So the feeling is that, yes, the environment is extreme, yet I am enjoying a happy indoor life.
Yeah, you're nice and warm.
I mean, he loves it.
He does it every single year.
People really enjoy this type of thing.
And I guess in North America too.
According to Camp Grounds of America that's a website KOA they did a research back in September 2023 which found out that 38 of campers stated a definite intention of winter camping, compared to 17 in 2022.
38%, yeah.
That's not bad.
I mean, it's 62% that said no thanks.
But still, the number... I guess what they're trying to say is there's a growth.
The number is growing, yeah.
People are getting more into it.
That's where i'm going.
Even we're saying yes, it's becoming a trend.
Yes, we have people from all over the country seeing this as a new option that they can take.
Still, it's still relatively a niche thing that we're doing, in the sense that it's still growing and it's still gaining its momentum, and we see that data shows in 2024, the core market size of china's camping economy reached 130 billion yuan and, Because of the popularity we see, summer campsites are becoming incredibly hard to book since recent years.
That is also partly making the winter camping on contrast another choice, another entertainment option that you can take.
That makes a lot of sense, right?
You love camping, but it's hard to find a place to go in the summertime.
So you just go in the wintertime where it's easier to book.
Yes.
So, with all the gears being smarter and with more choices, and make your experience happier and more comfortable, making sure that, even if you're scared of the cold, you can still go.
Enjoy all this.
What if this trend really, really... take off?
And what will it do to, for example, different industries?
Maybe, can it really change the landscape of tourism?
Totally, because it already helps bring in new vitality to local economy.
And this is according to the director of the Cultural and Tourism Bureau of that carnival.
We just mentioned the Melisi Daur Ethnic District.
So the director said that this vast winter tourism market market potential already give us confidence because it allows rural areas like ours to upgrade infrastructure, improve villagers livelihoods and ensure that our countryside remains vibrant and sustainable throughout the winter season.
Back a few years ago, even who would have thought to travel all the way north in chichi har in a local village to to camp there in winter time?
I would doubt if any of those were available even.
But nowadays it's becoming new.
I would think that it's industry locally for revitalizing local economy and tourism.
And this is making sure that local people are being benefited as well.
I think the tense, you know, talking about a specific type of product.
The gear is a little bit different for summer and winter time.
So you'll find some crossover equipment too, but the tents are quite different.
I think in the winter time, the tents need to have a certain level of wind resistance.
For example, they'll be a little bit more stable and to help people stay warm inside.
So you'll see, my point is, you'll see a different boom in products, camping products, specifically for wintertime.
And these camping brands, they also show up in events such as the carnival.
They chat with people, they listen to feedbacks and, based on what they hear from people and in real time experimenting on how those fabrics and those gears really stand out in the snow and in the wintertime, they can even make adjustments based on the true comments.
So why not?
It's good for business, is promising for local people and yeah, it's definitely growing in china.
All that being said yeah, all that being said to start with, if you are truly thinking about this, please do enough research, because we're talking about extreme, extreme weather.
We're talking about minus 30 degree or, in extreme cases if you're friend of steve's friend, 70 degree.
Minus 70 degrees celsius was really, really cold.
So there are a lot of things that might be going on.
For example, we talk about cold knife effect.
There's the sweat trap, the silent danger.
Look up all those keywords.
They're all dangerous things that might happen to you.
If we're talking about extreme cold weather, especially diy, winter camping instead of relying on the campsite, and if you're choosing your equipment, make sure you do enough research, make sure you choose the size, especially if it's your first time.
Stop thinking about diy, try it for the first time and then start diy in your extreme winter day campaign.
Yeah, maybe go for an overnight.
Yeah, as opposed to booking a week, just in case you know, you find out if you like it or not.
People assume i like this kind of thing because i'm canadian, Do you?
That is not true.
Just because we are used to the cold doesn't mean that we like it.
If somebody goes to prison, you wouldn't say, oh, you really liked prison, right?
Well, you were there.
You must have liked it.
Not the right comparison, I'm thinking.
Did I just compare Canada to prison?
I didn't mean to do that.
Here's a real conversation I spotted between Honglin and Steve one day.
Why are you wearing so many jackets?
Steve said because i'm cold.
And honan said but you're canadian.
Everybody says that i assume.
And steve answered i'm not a polar bear.
Yeah yeah, exactly.
So we're saying it's a fun trend that you can try but do your homework and then you'll be able to enjoy your very first winter camping.
You're listening to round table coming up.
Next let's discuss how come hotels always give you four pillows.
Stay tuned.
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This is roundtable with me steve, hatherly and yushan.
So when you enter a hotel room, often more often than usual you will see four pillows lying on the bed.
You will right, and why is that?
It's kind of a universal thing depending on the bed.
So if it's a single bed, you're going to get two pillows.
If it's a double bed, you'll get four pillows.
And for me personally, you know, when we found this story to discuss it on the show, it never even occurred to me before.
But then I thought about the image of a double bed in a hotel room only having two pillows on it.
It just wouldn't look right.
It wouldn't seem right.
Is it because you are already accustomed to the four pillow bed?
I think that's what it is.
But one of the reasons that hotels do this is because...
They recognize that more and more customers have different and different needs.
So, therefore, not everyone will use them for just their head, right?
Some people will use it for back support or foot support.
And then they'll offer different types of pillows.
Some will be stiff.
Some will be softer.
And the data shows that people when they have a good sleep at a hotel, it really does increase the chances that they will come back.
Guests who felt that their bedding was uncomfortable were 263 times more likely to report poor sleep quality, and those who found the pillows uncomfortable were 249 times more likely to have poor sleep quality.
And that adds up to less revenue for the hotels.
And when you talk about the visual role of pillows yes, I do sometimes feel like it's because I'm accustomed to the four pillow bed.
But we do have research telling that more pillows would create a subtle sense of being well cared for.
Which can, you know, quietly raise a guest's perception of the perception of the room's value?
Which is exactly what the hotel liaise knows.
Is that the right word?
The linen suppliers they've talked about this openly that increasing the number of pillows is actually one of the most cost-effective ways that they can boost overall guest satisfaction.
You know, if you think about comparing that with replacing a mattress or upgrading room categories or other amenities, pillows are pretty cheap relatively speaking, but they do have a noticeable impact on the room itself.
Yeah, depending on how you use those pillows, because nowadays we see people, especially when they're living in a hotel.
It's unlike staying back home.
We use pillows for all kinds of purposes, like If I just want to sit up in the bed and want to play with my phone or watch the TV, then pillows are no longer just for the neck anymore.
It's for support of all different gestures.
And if you think about the customer satisfaction and if you have only one type of pillow, right?
Let's say you have a stiff one um, and there's only two on the bed, but your customer doesn't like stiff pillows.
Well, they're going to leave a negative review.
So having more pillows there, more comfort options for them, is just good business sense.
Ah, that's smart.
So when you have two relatively fluffy ones soft but fluffy and two relatively firmer and stiff, the customers can make their own choices.
They can team them up and they do not have to bother those who are working, the working staff in the hotel anymore, which would reduce cost as well.
Yeah, and you can't guarantee a good night's sleep for everyone, but you can try to cover as many different preferences as possible, doing so in a cheaper way.
And here in China I think some high-end hotels would even provide the kind of pillows that are so good that after one night use you would ask to take a fresh, a new one home buy, purchase a pillow from a hotel.
That happened in my family.
My husband does that.
When he was on a business trip in a hotel, he really appreciated that pillow and that leads to first taking the pillow home because the hotel did the research and they believe their pillows are really good pillows.
And apparently he was not the only person who had that request.
So the hotel has the service of mailing a pillow to your home as long as you like it and you purchase.
And second of all yes, He booked that hotel so many times just because it guarantees a good sleeping experience.
Yeah, exactly.
Pillow does matter.
You want to know another little trick they do in hotel rooms?
Yes.
The sheets are always white, right?
Right.
Almost always white.
Makes you feel like they're cleaner.
Well, yep.
That's the reason that they're white.
Yes.
But then they put a bed runner at the bottom like that.
It can be silk or another type of fabric that goes.
I don't know what those are for.
I never use them.
Well, partly for decoration because the sheets are always white.
But also, people will sit at the foot of the bed.
They'll sit on the bed with their clothes on.
Oh.
So their pants or shorts or whatever swimsuit might be a little bit dirty.
That bed runner is meant to protect those white sheets and keep them cleaner.
One thing.
Name one thing that you hope you have in the hotel room.
Massager.
Jacuzzi.
A table that I can work.
Oh, my God.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Make a vacation, please.
Thank you.
This is Niu Honglin with Steve and Yuxuan.
Thank you for listening.
We'll see you next time.
