Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Heung.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yuxian in the studio.
Coming up move over, city walks and coffee dates, young singles are literally hitting to the feels.
Digging for wild veggies is the latest way to break the ice.
offering a fun low pressure first date.
But is this earthy adventure a recipe for romance or just the muddy potentially hazardous mess and TikTok, the international version of Douyin, recently removed a chubby filter after backlash.
But could this trend have been fun if it didn't bring body image issues into the mix?
Should we laugh at body filters or take them more seriously.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple podcast. Got a question that's keeping you curious from social issues to tech and everything in between.
Let us take a stab at it.
Email us at roundtable podcast at cue queue .com.
Now let's move on to the next topic discussion today.
Spring is in the air and so is a new dating trend.
Digging for edible wild vegetables.
More young people are swapping candlelit dinners for casual outings in the wild, spayed in hand.
Is this the ultimate test of compatibility or just a quirky way to save on dating costs?
So what's going on?
I saw that this news originally was reported from Shanghai.
Yes. I think it's more than just in Shanghai but here in well in Shanghai, young people are taking it to a whole new level because many of them are doing it just as a weekend dating or even blind dating activity just you know inviting your crush to the suburb area or a park and use your little spade at hand and dig up some edible wild vegetables it's a little bit hard to imagine for me as someone who is not used to going on chai chai or what we call the wild picking of fruits and vegetables, but.
Foraging? Foraging, yes, that's the word. Yes, and I don't, I didn't quite understand why people would do blind dates based on that, but here for blind dates, I think it makes sense because sometimes knowing the location to dig wild vegetables or knowing what variety grows at where seems to be able to put you on a favorable position during the date and sharing a good location to dig wild vegetables, have also become a secret between lovers or, you know, just crushes who like to keep on seeing each other.
This is a new trend, isn't it?
This is quite the hot topic on the social media platform, xiaohongshu, and we think of foraging, okay, you go out into the forest and find some vegetables, maybe bring them home and make dinner out of it.
We don't necessarily equate this activity with young people looking for love, but that's exactly what's happening here.
And it is a new trend.
They're going out there searching for these wild vegetables that are edible, and they're not going to your typical things like a movie or going to a bar for a cocktail.
No, let's meet up, let's go out, let's do this kind of nature related activity and see how that goes.
And that sounds like a far healthy way than the other options are offered.
Sure, we just talked about marathon running, so if you want to look at it from a health angle then yeah, I suppose so.
But there's got to be some disadvantages to this.
As many, you know, as many advantages as there are, there's got to be disadvantages.
This isn't an activity where you dress up, you know, in like a really nice suit or a nice dress or something.
This is something where you wear casual clothes that you don't mind getting a little bit dirty.
And there's also, perhaps, the safety concerns?
Say more about that.
Well, what are you digging, right?
There's that part of it.
Do you know what you're actually digging up?
Also, are you in a place that's legal for you to be digging?
Make sure you're not in someone's backyard in their garden.
taking their vegetables.
Well, my biggest concern when I first saw this and wondering why this can really become such a dating or if especially blind dating vibe is that is it safe that you are traveling with someone you just met or perhaps had never met before?
Yeah, because this is in a downtown location right?
To a quiet corner, a little forest that's outside of the major city area where there's no cameras and stuff?
Well, actually, these kind of - Sorry.
Some of these - like going out into the suburban areas or, you know, embrace nature, this is a pretty popular dating activity thing that's been going on for years.
Usually, you can team up, meet up on Xiaohongshou or other platforms, and then, they even have some pretty - now, when you look at it, it might be like a bit old -fashioned - just gatherings that you can go on your own or you can you know travel in a coach and then there are some like you know people out there organizing these events.
I think essentially people just want to break away from their everyday sort of social circle and want to meet new people and if you can do something innocent and fun and out enjoying the sunlight then why not.
So this is one of those things.
I remember, in Western culture a long time ago, there was some media coverage about how the typical standard first date dinner in a movie was no longer impressive anymore and people started looking for more exciting things to do, like rock climbing or some sort of experiential activity, and this qualifies, doesn't it?
And the thing that I said was a disadvantage before where, Oh, okay, you might not look like your best self getting all dolled up in your best suit or your best dress or whatever that could easily be an advantage as well because you remove all of that pressure.
This is more of an activity that you would probably do with somebody you know for a long time.
So you might get that vibe of let's just relax, let's have some fun, and let's forget all the typical stress that normally comes from a first date.
You also mention a very important part of it, that is, it's difficult to talk about money but yes, there is the cost issue.
A movie and a dinner date, you know how expensive that is in Beijing and Shanghai?
Yeah, right. But with this wild digging thing, yeah you're just paying for travel expenses and wouldn't cost much right?
I think in some cases it's just invite your date, invite your crush to dig wild vegetables in a park that could only cost several yuan for the subway ride.
So that's comparing with over 1000 yuan dinner and good restaurant booking, watching a film, booking a taxi to send your crush back home, that's totally a lower cost plan for a first date on maybe just among young people who don't really know each other that much yet and don't or probably are not ready to invest in that much money on the first date.
And speaking of just first date, I think in a lot of the scenarios, people who go on such blind dates or first dates, they are those that are just not there yet, they're already friends, they already know each other or they've been contacting or texting each other already, they are friends and from that basic they want to perhaps enjoy a little bit of a short trip and still feel like, oh we're doing this together, We're doing something together.
We're doing some fun.
We're trying to get out and be in the nature and experience something.
So that's a good excuse for starting on such a date.
I don't know though.
This feels like more of a third date activity to me, or like a fourth date activity.
It's just, I don't know, maybe it's just my own personality, but as a first, Hu Yung, what do you think?
This feels a little bit odd for a first date.
I think if you're really lucky that you have love at first sight or at least the other person doesn't repel you, then this is a good activity.
But if on the first date and it just happened that you two have no chemistry, do not click at all, and then you're kind of stuck with this person for at least two to three hours in the suburban area of your city, because let's face it, in big cities, we just don't have places for while digging inside the city then yeah gone are three hours of your life that you're never getting back and you're kind of stuck there so I guess I guess at least there's something to talk about you know if you don't hit it off and you're you don't have that natural chemistry where conversation just flows like water
yeah then at least you can say do you want to dig this up Yeah, you're making it sound real fun, but yeah, like I agree with you guys.
I think you both kind of alluded to, um, do you know what you're digging?
And for most young people, we're really not good at, is this biology or is it just botany.
We don't know anything about plants.
Um, I challenge you, dear listener, do you know the difference between Chinese chives and regular grass.
Maybe you do, but He Yan does not.
So, I really don't know what...
it's just like regular grass to me.
You might be digging up someone's lawn thinking you are getting some tasty vegetables.
I was just about to say that this is also a good reason for people to go on such days because if you have that knowledge, it will be a good chance to demonstrate your skills and qualities and knowledge, and just perhaps throwing off a little bit will be okay here that you know where to find what and how to dig which type of.
I don't need to be impressed by someone's digging skills on a first date.
Well if you don't know that and then the other person.
But is that really going to impress you?
Wow you dig super well.
I'm kinda surprised.
For a lot of say online dating tips it's always suggested that it's very important for a couple to go travel together and then decide where that where their relationship is going.
I think this is something that's related to that as well.
I think that is a very good thing to note.
But with the precondition that you've been dating and you like each other for some time.
Remember a while ago, a couple of weeks ago, maybe we talked about floodlighting when you get oversharing.
Yeah, you are like intimate, verbally with the stuff you share too early when the other person isn't really there yet.
I mean, with some of these dating things, if you two are not ready to tangle together and then it's just it's kicking, you know, you don't really like the other person to, you know, you're not in sync yet.
Let's put this to the test, OK?
Let's say, Hyun, that a handsome male suitor, contacts you.
Okay. And says, hey do you want to go out, do you want to hang out?
And you're thinking, yeah, this guy's a good -looking guy, he's got a nice career.
Alright, I'm thinking maybe yeah and he says, yeah I was thinking we could go dig up some some vegetables just outside of Shanghai.
Let's make it Beijing.
Okay, what's your gut, what's your gut reaction immediately to that?
Well depends on how handsome and how everything he is and also he needs to have a great personality to see how great this woman is.
I thought you were going to say a great shovel.
And bulging biceps because I'm not good at the shovel.
Well, yeah, like maybe I'm up for it.
Although originally, I didn't think I would be.
So yeah, I guess you get a yes from me.
Yeah, it's a good chance for, at least I think for a lot of girls, to observe the other party on how capable they are for you know not just digging but managing the whole trip a little bit in detail and see how everything is organized and even chit -chat in that meantime.
So it will be a yes for me too.
See that's really interesting immediately we're kind of assuming that the guy should be doing all that and it's a good chance to sort of observe the guy's behavior.
But also I've been thinking about this if I, and by the way disclaimer, I really know nothing about the nature.
I would literally die in nature for less than a day if I'm there.
But for the woman, let's say if she's really capable with the digging, she knows the plants or whatnot, and then I don't know like how comfortable she would feel to actually exhibit these this knowledge or the skill just not to scare the guy away or make him feel incompetent!
Oh, well, yeah. Well, if it's the...
We're going interesting places.
If it's the later case, then, yeah, it's a good trial.
He's not real. For all the criticisms that I just said, I think I should say this as well, if both people are into it, then it's a really kind of cool, unique way, isn't it?
To get to know each other a little bit better, because, yep, you've got the activity that takes the pressure off of the conversation a little bit, if it doesn't come naturally, but if you're both kind of outdoorsy and this is your thing then it could absolutely be a lot of fun.
Right so before we go on to the next topic I still would really appreciate you guys to give everybody a little bit of a safety alert, because digging in the wild and digging in the wrong place etc these are all problems. Yeah yeah if you're picking edible wild vegetables then it doesn't mean that they are guaranteed to be safe to eat just because it grows naturally in the environment doesn't mean that it's going to be good for your body, and so be careful there.
And also speaking of the environment, a lot of cities have clear regulations in their park management rules that prohibit visitors from collecting or digging plants at all, so please make sure that you're not doing anything illegal when you're out doing it, and also please please be safe with whatever it is that you're foraging.
Yeah, that's true, and sometimes just one little extra on top of what Steve shared, just now, sometimes it's illegal to dig up a certain variety of vegetables, because collecting wild vegetables, especially in areas clearly marked as off -limits and designated as habitats for well, national protected plants or just damaging plants, listed in the national key protected while plans list during the process even though you didn't mean it at all could cause trouble.
So yeah, be careful where you're digging as well.
Oh, please keep that in mind.
Coming up next, chubby filters.
A playful way to see yourself with a little extra weight have sparked a debate.
Are they innocent fun or do they send the wrong message about self -esteem.
Stay tuned. You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Filters, those magic tools on your phone that let you improve your appearance with just a tap.
Want to look slimmer, younger or more glamorous?
There's a filter for that.
But what about a filter that makes you look chubbier or even older?
Well, let's talk about the chubby filter first. This quirky feature alters your selfie by adding a few extra pounds or many extra pounds to your face or body, giving you a version of yourself that's heavier than the real deal.
Now here's a twist. Whether the filter makes you look better or worse is totally subjective, Some people might see that this is a fun way to play with your image, while others would view it as a negative representation of body size.
And the chubby filter started as a playful way to experiment with appearance, but things quickly took a turn when it sparked controversy especially on TikTok.
Yeah, TikTok was where this all went down and videos using the Chubby filter, which began with an unedited image of whoever was doing it right, and they were usually a slim person and then the filter was applied and that made their body appear larger and this got a lot of negative backlash from users and from experts, too.
And when TikTok received that feedback and when they saw the media attention, they took really swift action, they removed the filter, and they decided that it wasn't a good thing for them to have on their platform anymore.
They're committed to removing any content that violates its community guidelines, and that includes videos that promote bullying or harassment.
And in this case, the chubby filter, it was deemed inappropriate for users.
And let me just add one footnote, that is the TikTok is the international version of Douyin and on the Chinese app Douyin, there is the same filter, but it's not being removed and nor is there even noise about this filter.
Yeah, the TikTok users though, they saw it as promoting harmful stereotypes that equate being thin with being attractive and being chubby with something that was either undesirable or unattractive or even humorous and that's why everybody got so upset about this I mean it's totally understandable right because filters when we look at it it's more for entertaining use by twisting your face to a funny shape in a way a lot of the times it triggers you to laugh so it under that context if we We're talking about making someone look fatter, as in it's a filter.
Of course, the before and after contrast, the quote -unquote slimmer version, and the what about the bigger size version of yourself, that whole process of course is going to stir up a big argument and a lot of people feeling that they are being body shamed, because hey, you are making fun of your own image of a bigger size, but in other people's case, that's my body.
That is my body size that you are feeling hilarious about.
So I would find that understandable.
Yeah this is from the BBC.
This is from Dr. Emma Beckett who talked about that the filter promoted false stereotypes, and it suggested that people with larger bodies are flawed somehow, or lazy somehow.
But maybe even more importantly, that this could contribute to the rise of toxic diet culture.
There was a report from CNN that surveyed 270 -plus women who were aged 18 to 28.
They did that back in 2021.
And they found that women who spend time on TikTok are more likely to develop negative feelings about their body image.
Some experiencing dissatisfaction only after just 10 minutes of viewing content.
And I think that's why this is such an important issue because more kids, this is from Fox News and this is from 2013, which is a while ago, but still important, more children than ever before were dealing with eating disorders.
And this problem is showing up earlier in young people's lives too.
There was a study from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality that showed that children under 12 in America who were hospitalized for an eating disorder increased by 119 % between 1999 and 2006.
And it's not just girls, by the way, there was a study published at the Canadian Medical Association Journal that found that 15 to 10 % of males that suffer from eating disorders as well.
And eating disorders are something that usually show up in young people during puberty or early adulthood between the ages of around 18 and 20.
So the intent of the Chubby Filter or from the people who were posting these videos, I don't think the intent was to hurt other people.
But when you can have a serious impact on how someone else feels about their body, your ha ha moment is a real, oh, this is what I actually look like moment for someone else, maybe I'll skip my next meal.
Right. See, that's why this is potentially dangerous.
And I don't think removing a filter is going to change this deep rooted problem in Western culture.
But certainly having it there is not helping.
That's my opinion. Well, all the figures you cited just now, if it were the TikTok's spokesperson would argue that that was all because of social media in general is hardly one platform that's promoting unhealthy body images or let's just say unattainable, extremely quote -unquote beautiful beauty standards.
And we see that all over Chinese social media.
Like, it's difficult to find someone that looks similar to a regular person but also there are popular social media influencers who excel in this particular area, but overall what you see in terms of beauty standards it's, with one tap of the regular filter, it's impossible for an average person to even get close to that, and I think that is the first step of awareness and we don't need to succumb to it.
We don't have to. There are listening to Roundtable.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
You can find us on Apple podcast at Roundtable China, and thank you, Steve Hatherly and Yuxian for joining the discussion.
I'm Ha Yeung. We will see you next time.
