Hey weirdos, I'm Elena.
I'm Ash.
And this is Morbid, the bonus episode!
🎵
It's a bonus.
It's a crazy bonus.
It's a bonus about top model that was crazy in the day.
I've been waiting to talk about this.
I literally am so excited.
I don't know if I already said this on the pod, but I have not stopped going around my house saying how many people were afraid.
And holding your hand up.
And holding my hand up.
How many people were afraid?
And Drew can't stop going, today we're going to learn about acting!
Just please make sure Drew roaming around my home just randomly blurting that out.
Just yelling.
Today we're going to learn about acting.
Also, we're thinking about possibly recording our bonus episodes like on video in the future, just so you know like i was just thinking about it because that that movement would have been really good in the hand.
So just know that that's something we're thinking about.
I think you guys will dig that.
Yeah, these are usually pretty fun and you know, it just means we get lively with these.
It just means we have to get dressed more, which i did today.
So i should have filmed, but you're still swollen, it's fine.
Yeah, you know, you're beautiful still.
Well, thank you, i appreciate that.
It's true, you're beautiful, uh.
So i watched this in one um fell swoop, me too.
But i did it later at night obviously, when the kids went to sleep and john was with me and my mother-in-law was with me oh my god karen, watch this.
They were both horrified to the point where i was almost embarrassed.
Oh no i oh no right, mikey agrees.
Mikey had the same experience with dave, didn't you?
Were you almost embarrassed that you watched the show when dave and i first started dating, he was like oh, i'm gonna show you all my favorite shows.
He's like what's your favorite show?
And i was like oh, i loved, like i love uh, this show and i also love america's next top model.
And he was like wow Well like, cause he we were talking about like reality television shows, because he loves, he is a top chef guy.
Oh, I love top chef too.
But like that, like America's Next Top Model was like my, my jam.
Yeah.
He's like, okay, let's watch it.
And we started watching it and he was like literally like maybe you're not the gentle little lamb that I thought.
So like the actual show top model, I'm dead.
He was like thoroughly, thoroughly horrified.
I was watching this as, like a.
I actually remember when I lived at Ma and Papa's house back when we like when I was little little me and my mom did we would all watch it in the living room, remember.
Which is wild.
Like as I was falling asleep.
So I watched this when I was like five, I think, or maybe like a little bit older.
Which is so not okay.
Then I think it started getting, like, syndicated to, like, it was either MTV or VH1.
And I really watched it a ton in, like, middle school.
Yep.
Which is the worst time to watch it.
Anybody my age who was watching this back then like yeah, that's why we're all fucked up and have body image issues and all this shit.
Oh, yeah.
It's horrible.
Because also...
The women that they were referring to as plus size.
Oh, my God.
I'm sorry.
Can we just start off right there?
Yeah, we sure can.
The women, I am a plus size woman.
The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women.
Yeah.
Size six is not plus size.
No.
That is ridiculous.
Well, not only that, they would refer to them as plus size and make it, like, a huge, like, ugh.
It's going to be hard for you to find work.
And then the girls who were not even considered plus size, but like that they were sitting there being like oh my God, she's getting fat.
Yeah.
Like, she's huge.
Yeah.
We're literally like size two, very like – Normal.
Typical looking girls.
Beautiful bodies.
Like I just – and to have a bunch –.
It was like one thing to have a bunch of other women critique your body, which is already bad enough, but then to have a bunch of men also sit there in front of you on a panel and be like yeah, she's getting fat.
It's like – Yeah.
Fuck you. all y'all like sorry not for nothing like obviously all of these girls were like 18 plus but like 18 nine-year-olds getting fucking criticized by 40 year old men weird very weird weird upsetting very weird and ken mock in that documentary okay yeah let's start off there hold on i have a quote from him comes off in my opinion john literally horribly john was like that man is the villain of the century and he should be like i don't even know he should be like run out of out of town.
Here's a quote to confirm that for you.
The biggest disaster ever is always the best thing.
People have 104 degree temperature.
They're throwing up.
They need IVs.
That's the best news I could ever have.
And I believe that.
He stood 10 toes down on that.
That's verbatim.
Like, sir?
Sure.
Oh, yeah.
When they talk about, we'll get into the shandy of it all.
Dude, the way he handled that, the way that everybody handled that was fucked.
Like, it's that poor woman.
In my opinion, I know everybody...
Is like is thinking that the Jays and Nigel are not as bad.
And, like I here's, the thing I will give them is that they're at least sitting there and being like yeah, I should have done something and I didn't.
I think Jay Manuel at one point said, like, I wish I had a backbone.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I do, too, sir.
Yeah.
Because they're all fucking complicit.
You were all there.
And it's like I don't understand personally, and this is like my own, probably character flaw that has served me well in some circumstances but probably not in others.
Like the last place we worked, it did not serve me well.
No.
Is I don't understand hierarchy systems.
And I don't understand when somebody tells me like...
This person is just this way and they're above you, so you can't... I'm like, nope, no one is.
I don't believe anyone is.
It was so funny just in our personal lives to see how that played out, because I'm so used to that, because I worked in the hair industry.
And when you first get into the hair industry, if you want to work anywhere, that's like... you know, top tier quote unquote, you're an apprentice and you're a fucking peon and you do what you need to do that has absolutely nothing to do with doing hair to get to the top.
Yeah.
So it was so similar.
Like I've been in that power dynamic before.
And I just did not... And I think it's, like, my brain, the way it works.
I just... I logically don't understand hierarchy systems.
I think it's your, like, justice complex.
Yeah, I think it just does not... It never made sense to me.
Yeah.
And I think here there's sometimes where you would see like Tyra or the judges refer to a girl and be like you have authority problems or problems with authority.
And I'm like no, I think they just don't understand this stupid fucking made up hierarchy that you have.
That means nothing.
Like you're not above anybody.
Well, and Tyra would sit there and be like, you're a model.
This is a designer.
And it's like, so are you.
Exactly.
Tyra.
That's the premise of this whole fucking show.
Exactly.
I also have to say I'm actually shocked that Tyra agreed to do this documentary.
I'm very shocked by that.
It was very similar, in my opinion, to the mom that agreed to do the documentary, who was like catfishing her child.
You're like why?
Why did you say yes to this?
That's what you know, that's what uh, my mother-in-law kept asking.
She was like why did she agree to do this?
Because she doesn't come off no in the documentary.
Oh, she comes off awful, and she comes off like very unapologetic.
Ask her about the shandy situation which again we're gonna go into it, and she literally goes i wasn't there, i'm But like
And she's like, I wasn't there.
I wasn't there.
And you're like, wow, you don't give a shit at all.
Yeah.
I think, should we really start with the Shandy situation?
Because honestly, that was the biggest shock for me.
That broke my heart because I remember, and I'm sure you do too.
Everybody does.
Everybody does.
Watching that and sitting there going, oh my god, like I can't believe she cheated on her boyfriend.
Like, fuck Shandi.
Like what I loved Shandi, me too.
I thought she was awesome and I even in that moment, like when I still thought that she cheated on her boyfriend, I was like yeah, you know, like things happen, She didn't cheat.
She was sexually assaulted.
Yeah.
And they filmed the entire thing.
Yeah.
What we saw was such an edited down version of everything that occurred.
I actually have a quote from Shandi.
I didn't even feel sex happening.
I just knew it was happening.
And then I passed out.
And then they made it into a cheating scandal, complete with Tyra meeting with her the next day.
And pretending that she didn't know what happened.
Oh, have you ever cheated?
You know I got cheated on blah blah blah, like acting like friends and just being like.
You know.
And just casually bringing up cheating for no reason.
And telling her like we can't give in to like our carnal desires, you know, like acting like it was a choice.
Yeah.
And then filming her talking to her boyfriend Eric who, like obviously, was upset at the time and didn't know that that's what happened.
Yeah.
But then he like filming her being called a stupid bitch.
Yup.
And being screamed at.
By this guy that she had been talking about.
The whole time she's been on the show and being screamed at and demeaned.
And then not only that the aftermath she said she they tried to work it out.
I'm sure she probably went home and explained to him the actual reality of the situation.
Yeah.
And they would be out in public and people would walk by her and call her like a slut and stuff.
Like she got crazy.
Get it together.
Yeah.
Jesus Christ.
But then she went on the Tyra Banks show after that.
And she told her, I haven't watched it.
I can't watch the scene.
I don't want to.
And you can tell she's sitting there being like, I can't watch it because it's traumatizing.
Of course it is.
Tyra made her fucking watch it.
And then was like, what do you think about that?
Like, let's talk about it.
I was like you're diabolical no, and for someone who's been treated shitty in the industry, and like it says that and you claim that's your whole reason why you created this show, you're treating them the exact same way, if not worse.
Yeah, And that leads us to all the crazy photo shoots that went down.
The fucking photo shoots.
The race swapping ones.
Straight up blackface.
And they sat there and they were like yeah, I think Jay himself in that moment is like I did not want to do that.
And I'm like, but you did.
Exactly.
Which say something then.
They then continued to do similar photo shoots in like the cycles afterwards.
They did some where they had women in like Native American headdresses.
Yes.
They had at least two full on blackface.
Swaps.
Like race swapping.
They were calling them race swaps.
Like photo shoots where they just like went right for it.
Yep.
Those were bad.
And then there was also the crime scene shoots that they did.
Oh, yeah.
Where they were murder victims.
Yep.
And and it wasn't like it was like they this is when they had jail, which like rest in peace jail.
I know.
JL, I thought, was so fucking cool.
I thought she was so cool.
And I thought she was beautiful.
Yep, all of the above.
It's such a bummer.
But she had a friend who died while she was there.
She got the news while she was there.
And her friend had, like, OD'd, I think.
Yep.
And then she is in that photo shoot with murder victims or, like, crime scene victims.
No.
And she had to do... I think that was actually the one where they made her an addict, wasn't it?
No, this is the one where they made her, like, she had died by strangulation.
Oh, is that what it was?
But she still had to do, like, a death scene shoot.
And then that's the same shoot that Dion, which, once again, I fucking loved Dion.
All the girls that they, like, particularly hated on, we were like, I love them.
Dion when they made them make up new names for themselves, and she called herself Hula Hay.
I will never, ever.
I love Dion until the end of time.
Forever.
Deon for life, Hula Hay for life.
I don't even remember that.
They had to come up with like model names and she came up with Hula Hay.
What world?
I love her.
I love her forever.
Absolutely iconic.
Her mom, when she was younger, died or didn't exist.
She was paralyzed, put in a wheelchair because somebody shot her.
And then they made her be a shooting victim and then criticized her about not being dead enough in the in the
It was wild.
She was like, yeah, sorry.
I was just kind of going through it.
Then on top of that, Kaylin from Another Cycle, her friend.
She got, similarly to JL, news that her friend died.
And they had her pose in a grave.
In a grave the next day.
That was like eight feet deep.
Yeah.
Like...
Truly wild.
They also had.
They did a shoot with unhoused and made them dress up as unhoused people, and they had to do it with actual unhoused people in the background.
Yup.
Yup.
Yup.
They also did one model stereotypes where like, I remember Meg, which also I loved Meg.
Meg was like the rock and yes, i loved her.
Yes, i thought she was so awesome.
She had to be a drug addict and her photo was her, with her like a needle hanging out of her arm and her like strung out.
And they had another one, i can't remember.
There was a set of twins.
I think bulimia was one of them.
Bulimia yeah, one of them had to pose with literally like cake all over her face in a in a stall in the bathroom.
It was fucking crazy crazy crazy, just like and we're all watching this at the time like just being like whoa, this is nuts.
Because also, none of those photo shoots were you like.
Their portfolios were not usable because that's not what models.
Because they were so insane like everybody was like and i think like the makeup really wasn't good.
The editing on the photos weren't good.
No, i think danielle, the bad photos they picked bad photos on purpose, like you were saying.
I think it's um during jade.
Yeah, discovered supermodel.
Yeah, they play her commercial.
I think it was like like a cover girl commercial and she's like that's my worst take.
Yeah, and tyra gets pissed and she's like how many of you felt that it was your worst take?
And literally everybody raises their hand and it's like they did it on purpose, not go to show you that that's what was happening there.
I always thought that too.
I'd be like I remember seeing better photos while watching the show, while they're taking the photos.
And then you get the photo at the end and you're like, it's like a blooper.
You're like, why is she sneezing?
But I feel like one, like speaking of Jade, the undiscovered, one of the undiscovered supermodel.
Personally, I fucking love Jade.
Jade was wild.
Jade, if you're out there.
I love you.
Jade, I hope you're discovered, though.
I think Jade was a badass.
I think she was, of course, she had her moments.
Everybody does.
She was young, too.
Remember, she was so mean to Gina, though.
She was really mean to Gina.
But I think, also, they were, like, definitely set against each other.
They were setting that shit up.
Yeah, that was not her best.
Those were the moments I was not Team Jade.
No.
But Team Jade for her confidence.
Yes.
And Team Jade for like, she was pretty fucking funny.
Like when she's talking about being in like, I think they were called like tut-tuts, the car.
Do you remember?
No.
It's when she's sitting there and she's like I didn't, I like she didn't want to be in this, like open car, because they were in like Thailand, I think.
Yeah, I think they were in Thailand.
And the way she says it, she's like in the, in the toot toot, tut tut.
And then she's like hoopty.
She's like, I don't know.
For some reason, that one shot of her made me laugh so hard.
Like, her personality is funny.
And they gave her the villain edit because she was confident.
Yeah, no, they absolutely did.
And they always just were like, Jade, you look like you're 40.
Jade, you look so old.
Meanwhile, Jade had, like, gorgeous skin.
Yeah, she was beautiful.
Gorgeous eyes.
She was gorgeous.
Yeah.
Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.
It was...
Jade was one of the ones that got that edit.
Camille, I think, watch the Camille season again.
Camille gets fucking railroaded.
Camille was just confident.
She was pretty fucking quiet and to herself.
And everyone was just fucking mean as hell to her.
Same thing with Ebony.
Ebony, that drove me.
They called her ashy.
They called her a tyrant.
Tyra called her a fellow black woman.
And she had some of the most beautiful skin I've ever seen.
She had gorgeous skin.
She was a beautiful woman.
They also during the makeover, which the makeovers were literally to personally victimize these women.
They ripped her hair out of her head and were just literally sitting there talking about how awful her hair texture was, how none of them knew how to do it.
And she's sitting there-
While they're talking over her head and like fucking up her hair.
Fucking up her hair.
And she still looked gorgeous.
I was going to say she still looked great, but they ripped her fucking hair out of her head.
The other one was Jasleen.
When she came the first time, she had this big personality and they shit all over her for it.
And then she comes back and kind of tones it down and they're like, where's your crazy personality?
And she's like, what do you want?
Like, what the fuck?
There was another girl.
I can't remember her name, but she went super.
I think it was Jenna.
Remember Jenna?
She had, like, great pictures.
Oh, yeah.
And she went really far and was, like, very talented.
And they were just like, yeah, you're boring.
So they eliminated her.
Molly Sue was the same.
Molly Sue I thought was such a good.
And they were like, we don't know.
We don't get it.
We don't get what you are.
And was it Yaya was another one?
Yaya.
Yeah.
She made a career for herself, honey.
Good for Yaya.
And they were also wildly racist to her.
Oh, yeah.
They had a designer come in and was like, you're just like yelling of your Africanness too much.
And it was this white designer or stylist who was like yeah, like nobody wants to just like be hit over the head with that.
Oh.
And then when she would get like upset and defensive about that because like that's fucked up.
Because you probably shouldn't experience racism.
Well then she would just get the angry black woman thing where they were.
Just like you're being kind of defensive.
And it's like, nope, she's just being a human being.
It was like Tyra.
You're a black woman.
What the fuck are you doing?
Why are you?
Tyra herself says that's part of the reason she set out to do this show in the first place.
She wanted to expose this part of the fashion industry, but change it.
It's like, baby, you just exposed yourself.
Because similarly, Cycle 7, Jada Young...
She had to film with a racist male model.
Oh my God, this drove me crazy.
He literally they're all sitting at dinner because, like some member, they would like go out with the male models, like before or after the shoot.
This one was before.
And he literally looks at her and says like, basically, I don't like black women.
Yeah, he literally said that.
And she's like oh, that's insane that we have to.
I think they literally had to kiss on set the next day.
Yeah, they did.
They absolutely did.
She got eliminated then for that commercial that she shot like you didn't kiss him good enough, which was like yeah, she was uncomfortable because he was a racist fuck.
And she told you guys and everybody was like yeah, the way they would react to that stuff, they were like yeah, i don't know, that's just like stupid.
You have to get through it and it's like you don't.
Oh, my god.
So kenya.
I loved Kenya.
I loved Kenya, too.
I think Kenya is, I thought she was a stunner then.
I think she's a stunner now.
I thought she was A+.
I thought she could have won that.
But I also loved Naima.
I loved Naima.
She was gorgeous.
But Kenya was told constantly that she was fat, which was absolutely insane.
Janice, the amount of times that she was like, she's too fat.
She's too fat.
She's too fat.
I'm like, she's beautiful.
She said she should be.
What was the car thing that she said?
Did she say it about her?
I think it was about Kenya that she said that.
I don't remember what it was.
It was horrible.
Janice said awful things to women.
But they had, so they would call her out for this.
And then they had her during the seven deadly sins be gluttony.
And make her lay in a coffin with garbage food all over her in like a ridiculous getup.
Yeah.
Ridiculous.
Yeah.
And holding a donut in her hand.
And so she looks campy.
Like she did what she could with the styling she was given.
I thought she did a great job.
Yeah.
And they were like, they were shitting all over this, basically saying she looks like a drag queen.
And it was like, okay, shut up.
One that's not an insult.
And also, like, one that's not an insult, and two, you styled her that way.
That's your fault.
She didn't get dressed.
Like, you put her in that.
Right.
And then she's like holding the donut, and Tyra was like after they've told her she's fat and disgusting.
Yep.
And like, they literally were like, you need to watch your weight while you're here.
Like, be careful.
Yeah.
And they were like.
She literally says I would have liked to see the donut hanging out of your mouth.
Why?
So you could have shit on her about that?
That's exactly why she wanted that.
And then they go to Africa and everybody else is a gazelle, a fucking giraffe.
All these beautiful, graceful creatures.
An ostrich.
They make her a fucking elephant.
And don't you dare tell me that that was like, whoops, that just happened.
They made her a goddamn elephant.
And then they shit all over telling her they had to retouch her so much and blah, blah, blah.
And it's like what are you getting out of this?
They also would like zoom in on her stomach and like when she was like in a weird position so it would make her still look like a normal fucking person.
But it wasn't like the greatest angle and she's like they would zoom in.
They edited her, edited her eating a bagel, so it looked like she ate three bagels and she's like that was the same bagel that i was eating.
They just made it seem like i was just pounding bagels to the face.
Yeah it, It's like damn.
Even if she was, who cares?
But why are you doing that?
Well, and on the subject of Kenya, in Africa they did this shoot where they were dancing with like three guys and this one model Bertini, was already fucking all over her shit and making her uncomfortable.
And they're doing this dancing thing and he's touching her and like grinding up on her and he's like grunting and shit in her face, like and she was uncomfortable.
So she did what any woman should be able to do and said pause hey, I'm a little uncomfortable.
Right now he's kind of like groaning up on me.
I'm very uncomfortable.
First of all, they were all aggravated by her stopping.
Like Jay can pretend that he wishes he had done something.
I'm sure he does.
But he needs to own the fact that at the moment he seemed annoyed that she had stopped, and everybody else did too.
Yep.
And they basically were like, yeah, okay.
At one point, Jay had to say, like, don't grab her.
Maybe stop grabbing her ass.
Maybe.
And it's like, so you see that it's a problem.
It's like, take him off set.
If the male model is grabbing the ass.
You take him off.
And she says she's uncomfortable.
Goodbye.
And I will say, Jay said in an interview, he wished she had a backbone during that.
And he wished she had said stop and taken him off set.
And it's like, that's nice that you recognize that now.
But that already happened to her.
Where were you in the moment when she was dealing with it?
And she, literally Kenya, sat there and said during the shoot she was nervous about stopping the shoot because, like as women, you never want to bother anybody or, you know, say something's happening.
And she said to herself, what would Tyra do?
Yeah.
And I think this is how Tyra would handle it.
She would gracefully say, hey, I would like, and they shit all over her for it.
And Tyra herself was like, no.
In judging, they literally were like, so she was like, hey, so this was happening.
First of all, they picked a photo where he was touching her.
Literally grabbing her ass.
Like, literally grabbing her leg.
And she's like, that wasn't a coincidence.
And they basically tell her, like, Nigel's like, well, you need to be in control in that situation.
I'm sorry.
But sometimes I'm not.
And also, I'm sorry, man.
You can't tell a woman I need to be in control there when I'm trying to take control.
That's the thing.
She tried to take control.
And no one's doing anything.
And he's sitting there being like, there's cameras all around.
There's people all around.
Yeah, no one pretend.
That's even worse.
You're all sitting there saying, oh, well, there's so many people around.
Why was she feeling uncomfortable?
Because a whole sea of people were doing nothing to protect her.
That's why she felt uncomfortable.
And then Tyra sits there and says well, you can do it, and say like you know boy, you better like back up off me.
But she's like, but do it in a fun way.
Yeah.
Where it doesn't put static in the air.
Stop sexual harassment in a fun way.
Well, we don't want to make the sexual harasser uncomfortable.
Keep it light.
We don't want to do that.
We don't want to make the man who's touching you without your permission to be uncomfortable with the situation.
No.
Yes, we do.
Like, take him off set.
And there's so many times during this where it was like you are peons and you should endure this behavior.
And also it's like, you're wanting people to sign up for this?
Yeah, like, fuck that.
And this is the way you're treating them?
Fuck that shit.
And you're sitting here, like, again, saying you want to expose the industry.
Yeah.
You're being the industry right now.
So...
And also the amount of dangerous runways they put these women on.
Runways and photo shoots.
Yeah.
The runways, though.
Like the pendulum one.
The pendulum one could have killed a woman.
That's insane.
There was also one where they had to walk on, like, docks on the water.
Yep.
The runway was on the water, and one of them had her hands, like, there was, like, no...
Like, wait for them to be apart.
Yeah, like the arms of her hand.
It was like a straitjacket almost in front of her.
So if she fell, she's drowning.
Like, what the fuck?
Mikey pointed out my favorite photo shoot, I do have to say.
But the one where... Who was it?
Melrose and... Oh, yes.
Carrie D, Carrie D And they're All.
The lights go off and they're like running through the fashion show as the brides
I loved that.
Which also...
Melrose.
Melrose.
She got a bad rap.
Melrose is another one.
Yeah.
And I think Melrose should have won.
I actually do too.
I liked Carrie D. I really did.
But I think Melrose was, I think she was robbed.
And I think she was given such a villain edit that whole season.
I remember you and I were talking about it.
When we originally watched it, I was like, Melrose is such a bitch.
And now I watch it and I'm like, what the hell was I thinking?
You're like, it goes from Melrose is such a bitch to Melrose is that bitch.
She is that bitch.
Yeah.
Because then we go for like that same season, Carrie D, Like when they did that photo shoot in the pool and she got legitimate hypothermia.
The fact that a woman literally got hypothermia.
And they were like annoyed.
And the whole, I think the whole premise of that photo shoot was like we're gonna subject you to extreme temperatures because that's being a model.
Yeah.
Get in this freezing cold pool.
And then they blamed her at judging when she was like, yeah, I got hypothermia.
Isn't that crazy?
They were like, you really need to know your limits.
Yeah.
And she was like, but I thought you would get mad at me if I stopped.
And I think she did try to stop or like pause at least.
And they were like, oh, okay, you're being frustrating.
And then they're like, know your limits.
She's like, I tried to tell you my limits and you were mad.
Like, excuse me?
And the same thing with Cara Dee.
That always annoyed me was it was during the thing where they had to pretend to be like matadors.
Oh, my God.
When she told Nigel to take the stick out of his ass.
That's one of my favorite scenes.
All she said during that was, oh, did you take that out of your ass since last panel?
That was hilarious.
Get over yourself.
That's a funny joke.
They lit her up.
Yeah.
She almost got eliminated over that.
Oh, yeah.
And like they lit her up over that.
I was like, I thought that we could take a joke.
I thought that was a funny joke.
I thought that was hilarious.
It's because it's a man.
That's true.
He was not happy.
Fun fact, I once saw Nigel at the airport.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't say hi to him.
I forgot about that.
I feel like he, I don't know Nigel, but I didn't feel like I wanted to be like, oh my God.
You're like, I don't know.
Hi.
You're like, don't say anything to me, please.
Yeah, but I saw him in a restaurant.
Yeah, I thought that joke was supposed to be lighthearted and funny.
It was.
I will say maybe Nigel handled it even, I'll say, a little better than they did at panel.
I don't even remember.
Because he kind of took her aside and was like, you don't really know me, so don't make that joke.
But then a panel they like really shot all because then they turned it into.
He turned it into like hey, you just don't know me.
Yeah.
Like making that joke is weird to make when you don't know me.
Yeah.
Which is fair.
I can get on board for that panel.
They were like, he's a photographer and you're a little bitch and you're not allowed to do that.
And it's like, can we not turn it into that and just make it like, hey, you don't know me.
So don't make that joke.
Everything became a hierarchy, though.
Yeah.
It was, I mean, remember Brooke?
Who was like just, she was literally, and they sent her home the day she was graduating high school.
That was the, okay, not only that, by the way, they didn't send these girls home.
I remember, and obviously all of us watching were like, oh my God, like now they're on a plane and going home and that's so sad.
Nope.
Nope.
They got sequestered.
So they literally just moved out of the model house and into like hotel rooms.
Yeah.
So they had to film packing their bags.
And then they just had to sit in hotel rooms for the rest of the season, so that they like didn't tell anybody else what had happened.
Like couldn't go home.
Couldn't.
And couldn't call anybody or anything like that.
That's fucking crazy.
So like your dreams as like an 18 to like early 20 something girl just got absolutely crushed.
And now you're just sitting alone in a hotel room.
Yeah.
After they've probably promoted that like you should have an eating disorder.
Yeah.
Like that's good.
That's great.
That's awesome.
That's very cool.
Was there any mental health people on set?
No.
No.
Of course not.
No.
And it's like I feel like they would do that shit on purpose.
Like Brooke getting sent home on the day she was graduating high school.
Absolutely.
That's not a fucking coincidence.
And then I think Tyra was like, you graduated.
You just didn't walk.
I'm like, you're an asshole.
And also for, I think she was eliminated for a photo shoot that they had to do with Fabio.
And I was like, she's like a baby.
Yeah.
And this is like a romance shoot with Fabio.
I forgot about the Fabio shoot.
Like, are we really... That's where we're sending her home?
Yeah.
She couldn't get that into it with Fabio?
Yeah.
And she's a literal child?
Well, that was the other thing.
Can we take it down a notch, everybody?
That was the other thing, too.
They would... It would be like...
If you were like too into it, they were like, well, this reads porno.
Oh, yeah.
And then if you weren't into it, they were like, well, this looks like shit.
Yep.
And they were like it was very hard to find the middle ground of where you were supposed to be, like sexy enough, but like not too sexy or not too little.
Some girls.
They would literally be like she has zero sex appeal, which I was like whoa.
And then it's weird to be talking about like freshly out of high school uh, young girls in those terms, where they would like.
There was one um the season with um like marjorie and samantha.
She's like tall blonde just out of high school.
Literally months earlier they did a jeremy scott runway show And they were blindfolded.
Jeremy with his mullet bangs.
Mullet ass.
The way he talked to this girl, I was like, shame.
Shame.
Because, seeing a panel of adults sit there and allow these young women girls, to be talked to and humiliated like this, they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
And again, I don't get the hierarchy here at all.
No, it's weird.
Because they did the runway show.
Apparently, everything was fine.
She gets in there blindfolded in the runway because, of course, that's real.
Obviously.
Obviously.
And she gets to the end and she puts her hands on her hips and she kind of like moves her hips back and forth.
And it was a short dress so it slightly rode up, not even like crazy.
But mind you, he said, show me your personality.
Show me your personality.
At the panel, he sits there.
This girl is fresh out of high school, months out of high school.
He berates her, tells her it's not her show, she's not a rock star.
And then he goes, I don't know, did you see a pole at the end of the runway?
Oh, I'm sorry, are you saying that to a freshly 18-year-old, you fucking piece of shit?
Yeah, that's just fucking too far.
That's the weirdest shit to say to someone.
First of all, to say that to any woman, fuck you.
Yep.
Fuck you.
And then two, to say that to a young girl, check yourself.
And the other thing that you were saying earlier.
And he said it several times.
He did.
It was fucked up.
He said that she was a combination of a truck driver and a stripper.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
You were saying it too.
She had met him before and she really admired him.
Like she liked his designs.
He said they had a great conversation.
And they had a great combo.
And then she turns and does the, and like just fucking humiliates her on national television.
Yep.
Speaking of humiliating people on national television, we would be absolutely remiss to not mention the Tiffany of it all.
Which, by the way, they touch on it in the documentary series.
So much of that flip out that tyra had was edited down yeah, and they literally said that.
I think it was.
Um, mr j said that lawyers were on oh yeah, next day, they all.
And there's been a couple models that have come out since the documentary aired and said, like you would not believe some of the things that were said, which i'm like what the fuck was?
And i i don't know if they had to sign, like ndas or something like.
It seems serious.
And here's the problem, Tiffany.
So she got eliminated.
She walked over to the girls.
She was kind of joking with them being like, it's okay.
It's okay.
She was, they're teaching these girls.
One of the things they're trying to teach them is to take rejection, because they're going to face it a lot.
So she's handling the rejection.
She's saying, you know what?
It's okay.
It's fine.
Like just be in chill.
Not only that also, by the way, Tiffany had done so.
Tiffany had literally completed anger management courses because, like she was struggling with her anger
And she came back for a second time and killed it.
And killed it, got eliminated, and handled it really well.
Yeah.
Like, that should have been, like, actually...
She should have pulled, to be honest.
Should have pulled her back up there and been like Tiffany.
I'm really fucking proud of you for how you handled this.
Right, like you've come so far.
This shows me that you're going to go far, because you have taken what you have learned and you just applied it here.
Like, good on you.
But that's what it should have been.
Instead, Tyra's pissed that she didn't break into a thousand pieces in front of her.
And so she decided, well, I'm going to make her break into a thousand pieces in front of her.
And she fucking did rails into her.
I mean, I've never in my life yelled at a girl like this.
That's where the we were rooting for you, we were all rooting for you.
How dare you comes from.
She also sits there and like humiliates her family.
She's like your grandmother got her lights turned off for this, for you to be in this competition yeah, like.
And you don't take it to a place.
You don't take it to that level, no matter what.
And you don't, in the middle of that, take it to a place of talking about her family situation.
No, that's none of your fucking business.
And she is.
She handled the rejection humbly.
She did.
I loved Tiffany.
I thought she was hilarious.
I really liked her.
And I just I could not.
That stressed me out when I watched it when it was on, and it stresses me out now when I watch it.
I can't.
That's so humiliating and demeaning, yeah.
And then for tyra to just kind of be like like she really she sat there in her.
Everyone was saying her inspector gadget fucking trench coat that was.
She gave up nothing.
She gave up nothing really.
At one point she says you know what, you're all gonna have to face some shit sometime, and i hope you do it with like grace, essentially being like I didn't come up with a show about young models, subjecting them to crazy ass hair makeovers and cold pools and shit.
Like, babe, I'm not going to get called out for this.
I wasn't sitting there calling all these girls fat, while saying that you wanted to change the industry.
And sitting there saying, I'm like, I hope you all have to answer, Tyra.
You didn't answer for anything.
You answered for nothing.
You passed the buck.
Well, it was of the time.
It was... Production was there.
I wasn't.
Yeah, it wasn't me.
I don't know.
It was just real shitty.
Or the... What was the... Was it the Tiffany thing?
No, it was the Shandy thing that she said she didn't want to talk about.
Or was it the Tiffany thing?
Well, she literally goes... She was like... Yeah, I kind of remember what happened with Shandy.
Like, wow.
And it's like...
And then... It was the J thing she didn't want to talk about.
The J thing she didn't want to talk about.
The thing that I just thought was the absolute funniest thing throughout the entire documentary was at the end, when Tyra was like and like when you get called out blah blah blah, blah.
And then the screen was like, and Danielle was like, that's a bunch of bullshit.
I love...
I love Danielle.
And Danielle, I thought she was a queen then.
I thought she was a queen now.
She is stunning.
Stunning.
I was so happy when they I was so pissed off that they were trying to get her to close her gap and that she sat there and she stood her ground.
She was like, no, I love my gap.
My gap makes me me.
Tyra was so mad.
She was.
Seeing this woman sit there confidently saying I like my gap, this is who I am, I'm going to get there with this, pissed her off so much.
You could see it.
Yeah, well, she just wouldn't.
She was relentless.
She would be like you really think.
And at one point remember, she stuck her finger in between her teeth and she goes you really beautiful cover girl, you really think you're going to be like that.
And I was like...
Fuck you.
Like, you are such a bitch.
Meanwhile, does anybody get the London look?
Yeah.
Hello?
With the giant gap?
It's gorgeous.
A gorgeous girl.
And then, like, I don't even know if it was, like, the next season or if it was a couple later.
They opened a girl's gap.
They gave a girl a huge ass gap.
Which shows you exactly what it was all about.
It was wild.
And then while we're talking about dental procedures.
Joanie.
Joanie's dental procedure.
She literally has dental issues with her bite and, like, God only knows what else to this day.
Yeah.
However many years later, they fucked her mouth up.
They forced veneers onto her teeth.
Oh, my God.
Which are so like that.
You have to continuously get that fixed.
Do you remember her when they had already shaved her teeth down and they had to send her home for a wait?
And she's like, and these are our teeth now.
She's like, look at my teeth.
Oh, my God, Joni.
Girl.
And just having her endure that... And then just pose for a photo shoot the next day?
They also And back to Danielle really quick.
What really pissed me off?
Oh, I know exactly where you're going.
Was how Tyra harped on her fucking accent and was so mean about it, like so offensive, super offensive, and would like and she would like mock her and be like you really think you're gonna get a contract like this?
And i was like oh like, i was like that's where she comes from, like fuck you, i love her accent.
Yeah, i love danielle.
I loved her the whole way through and when she got, she had to go to uh, the hospital in thailand.
She had to go to the hospital in thailand because she had food poisoning, dehydration and exhaustion and nigel said you're kind of high maintenance, aren't you?
No, I was just sick bro.
And also, if you remember, she left the hospital early like, I'm pretty sure, against medical advice, because she didn't want to get eliminated.
Yeah.
Like, hello?
It was just like, guys.
And then the thing that actually I think the biggest thing for me I think this really was the biggest was Danielle, like she won right.
She was one of the winners?
Yeah.
And then she went on and she lived in this model house.
Oh, yeah.
And she's sitting there month after month, day after day, not really getting any jobs.
And all these other girls are getting jobs.
And finally, one of the girls that she was close with was like, told her, like i talked to an agent and i asked why doesn't danielle ever get booked on jobs?
And it's like, because her portfolio doesn't work, none of these things work, and like we have to treat them differently.
Because they were on reality tv.
And danielle said she later had a conversation with tyra and tyra admitted i knew that there was going to be certain doors that just wouldn't open for you guys because you were on reality tv and i didn't do anything about it.
Yeah, it's like, why did you?
Why continue just to do this?
Yeah, for however many cycles, like what is there?
Like 24 cycles total?
Yeah, like what the fuck?
You knew what you were doing.
This was never a shit.
That the biggest takeaway from this documentary is that this was never a show for young, aspiring models.
This was a show to humiliate women and just subject them to like national quality.
It really was like one more one that i was just thinking about takara.
Yep, i loved takara, i love takara.
She was another one that they beat the personality out of yep.
She had this amazing personality and then they just beat her down she, and then shit all over her about being beat down, yep.
And and i remember she was at a photo shoot and they didn't have any clothes for her and the stylist was like you think i can get a rack like this for you?
And i was like oh, Fuck you.
Like I was, like I can't.
And then they put her in like this big orange fucking valet button-up shirt and khakis.
And she, quote-unquote, didn't sell it.
Yeah, and judged her based on that.
I was like, come on.
It's like nobody was going to make that look good.
And she still looked good.
And also...
Hey, dumbasses, we all know you knew she was coming.
That's the other thing.
You can absolutely get clothes.
That's on you guys.
That's not on Takara.
Yeah, but they put it all on her.
Such bullshit.
And then they shit all over her for getting beaten down.
Yep, it just.
Oh, it always made me so mad.
Yeah, there was just that documentary was wild oh.
And then um recently, somebody i don't know if it was somebody at upn or if it was cw, because part of the documentary was like tyra said she had to fire the two jays and nigel.
It recently came out that she was allegedly never told that she had to fire them, allegedly.
That's what one person who works there said.
You know what i'm interested in?
Because i think we need to do another part of this when the other documentary comes out.
The other one's coming out next week, next month.
Oh, is it next month?
Yeah, i think it's march something 16, so it's like really like a few weeks.
So i think we should also do another one when that one comes out, because i think that's gonna have more of the contestants on it and i'm interested to see apparently, that one's also gonna have janice.
Yeah, that's gonna be wild.
Which Janice was fucking horrible.
She was.
She was really mean to those girls.
I think she was also like really struggling with mental health and addiction back then.
So maybe she is going to look back and say that she regrets some of that behavior.
I hope so.
Because it's no excuse to treat people like shit.
Exactly.
So I hope it's a...
I hope it's something she regrets.
I hope so.
If you guys haven't watched the documentary, I thought the parts where the contestants were speaking.
Yeah, I wanted more of that.
...were really good.
I think the... Tyra really just didn't give a lot, in my opinion.
Tyra gave nothing.
I think she gave nothing.
It was just passing the buck and making faces.
Yeah.
Jay and Nigel and Miss J, which also, like, I feel so bad about what happened to Miss J. I do, too.
I loved Miss J. I really liked Miss J. The other thing is, I think Miss J wasn't really there.
Like, Miss J was, like, the walking coach.
Yeah, which also Miss J had some moments where they were not...
They were not great.
Yeah.
So it's like they were all part of this.
Yeah.
There was no no doubt about that.
And it's like but they all acknowledge at least the three of them are acknowledging that it was bad.
I will give them that.
But I do think like you got to take some responsibility.
Yeah.
Take a little more accountability.
But that Miss J suffered a stroke.
Yeah.
And, like, obviously, like, they all worked together for years and years and years.
Yeah.
And Tyra never went to visit Miss J. Yeah.
Which was wild.
And still hasn't called Miss J. Yeah.
According to Miss J. According to the doc, as of the doc.
That was really sad.
Yeah, that was because also like, miss jay literally taught tyra how to walk.
Yeah, it was wild, i know, and that's and the fact that miss jay is now having to relearn how to walk like killed me.
I thought i think she will again.
I absolutely think so.
Yeah when, when jay manual uh, mr jay, when he, he wanted to leave because he was being like yeah, i'm good with this, you could tell too and he says it too like when you look at his face when he's presenting certain photo shoots, you can tell it's like because it got to.
Like he, I think he was the creative director in the beginning, but then he he wasn't the creative director after a while, like who, who knows who was coming up with the shoots, he was just presenting them yeah, and that was after he tried to leave yeah, And I think he talked to her.
He sent this big long thought out thing and she had responded just, I'm disappointed.
I am disappointed.
And then she iced him out and would not speak to him.
Yeah.
Like, and actually made it such a, which makes it a horrible working environment.
Yeah, it's a toxic work environment.
And then fired him yes and however, however many seasons after.
But the other thing is, if you watch uh, and they show little clips of it in the documentary, i think this season that he comes back like, comes back after, like he basically just like wasn't allowed to leave yeah, is the cruise ship one, and she's like joking with him on the panel and you can see on his face that he's like What the fuck?
That he's, like, confused?
Like, why are you joking with me?
Because, like, clearly you're being, like, just, like, completely ignoring me off camera.
And then on camera, you're like, LOL, best friends.
Yeah.
It's a wild documentary.
It is.
And it's just like this is all the stuff that has come out.
Yeah.
Imagine the stuff that just like hasn't hit the surface yet.
And I think when we hear more from the contestants in this next documentary that's coming out, I think we're going to get even more.
Yeah.
I think so too.
I'm interested to hear it.
And we can do another one of these to like kind of go over what happens in that one, because I'm sure there's going to be new shit that comes out.
Yeah.
Definitely.
But... yeah it's definitely it's eye-opening it's worth the watch for sure yeah i would say so but it's it's really disturbing it is disturbing drew said he fell asleep like on the last uh episode and he said he had really weird dreams yeah that john i didn't like it john literally was like i'm he couldn't finish it he was like disturbed by it yeah like couldn't imagine he was like this is awful it's probably weird for like men to see what women are subjected to on a pretty regular basis it's probably weird for them to be like what the fuck wait what you guys just have to deal with that yeah so yeah i mean i think i think we pretty much had everything that we wanted to yeah but i'm like you said i'm excited to hit more when the new one comes out but let us know what like your favorite moments of the or not favorite moments but just like jaw-dropping yeah shocking moments were in the comments yeah um i know there's probably stuff that we didn't even touch upon because there's so much yeah so let's chat let's yeah let's Let's really work through this.
Let's work through this, guys.
Let's heal together.
Millennials, let's work together.
All right, guys.
Thank you for tuning in to our little bonus episode for February.
We'll be back next month with our March bonus and that is going to have a special guest.
We're going to be reading Postmortem by Patricia Cornwell.
So if you haven't read that, definitely read it.
If you have read it and it's been a while brush up on it, because that's what we're going to be talking about.
It is so good.
Elena's read it like a million times.
I have.
I love it.
I'm reading it for the first time right now and it's really, really good.
Trust me.
And we are going to have Chef Riley on the pod for that.
I'm so excited.
I've followed Chef Riley forever.
He's the best.
And it makes sense because he himself has a book coming out in March.
It's called A Little Bit Extra.
So definitely go follow him on Instagram at Chef Riley Meehan.
You won't be disappointed.
You will not be disappointed.
And our bonus episode is actually coming out March 31st, which is the day that Chef Riley's book drops.
So definitely go pre-order that.
Woo!
And tune into the episode.
Do it.
And I think that's it.
It's going to be fun.
Okay, we love you guys so much.
We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird.
But not so weird as Tyra Banks, bye.
