Discussion keeps the worldturning.
This is RoundTable. Helloeverybody, welcome to RoundTable.
Coming to you fromBeijing, I'm HeYoung.
Good to have you join us on a day'sshow.
We are venturing into the realm of matri localmarriages, where the husband takes up residence with his wife's family and their children carry on the maternallineage.
This departure from traditional marital arrangements in China begs thequestion, what societal and economic factors are driving thisphenomenon?
And we're all ears for your burning questions and epicstories, grab yoursmartphone, record a voicememo, and let's make radiomagic.
Center thoughts to eZFMarroundtable atFoxMail.com, you might just steal the spotlight in our next Heart toHeart.
For today'sprogram, I'm joined by Li Yi in the studio and Josh Caterlale on the line first on a day'sshow.
In recentyears, in economically advanced provinces such as Jiangsu and Jiangjiang inChina, we've noticed some families starting to move away from traditional marriagecustoms.
They opt for matri localmarriages, where the husband moves in with his wife's family or near the wife's parents and their children inherit the maternal familyname.
Usually the wife's family holds a stronger financial position than thehusbands.
So how are matri local marriages manifested in contemporary Chinatoday?
And we see some pretty high and specific standards to potential live-in sun andlaws.
Sure. I think nowadays when we talk about this matri localmarriage, usually formen, a matri local marriage just provides an opportunity to marry a woman with a strong financialbackground.
Ofcourse, it's just a comparatively more affluent compared to themen.
And ofcourse, the man doesn't have to first buy a house or a car or even pay a betrothal gift to the wife and herfamily, which is something that men are expected to do when getting married in most areas in thiscountry.
And infact, in the matri localmarriage, the man might even receive a betrothalgift.
And if the couple just gets adivorce, he would also receive a considerable share of the family'sassets, as long as he remains faithful to his wife and takes on childcareduties.
Andyes, as yousaid, some families seeking matri local marriages do have high standards for potential sense inlaw, and they would just check his educationbackground, healthcondition, and even financial stability is also an important factor to beconsidered.
While just let's look at the Xiao ShanDistrict, which is quite affluent in Hangzhoucity, the capital of Eastern Zhuojiangprovince, is known to have a long history of matri localmarriages,actually.
And according to a veteran matchmaker who specializes in finding a living sun in law in XiaoShan, women here are moreimportantly, their families really want educated healthy and even faultlessmen.
And as aresult, candidates signing up with his agency need to provide their financialinformation, including creditreports, as well as passive criminal backgroundcheck, and even healthexamination.
And ofcourse, some families would just have some particulardemands, which also expect the men tofulfill.
And especially in thisregard, men with stable administrative jobs in the state sector are the most popular choices in themarket.
And also according to thismatchmaker, it's also a plus if the men regularly donate blood or engages in charitywork.
And ofcourse, there are some like least popularprofessions, such aslawyers,salesmen,bodyguards,models, fitnesstrainers, drivers fordry, tailingapps, andcouriers.
I don't really knowwhy, but it just becomes so competitive for those appliance to become this metric local sun inlaws.
Quiteinteresting. I'm surprised that models don't go high up there on the list ofpreferences, because youknow, supposedly the kid will get really good genes in the sense of physicalappearance.
But what do youthink,Josh?
Imean, does this surprise you atall?
I'm going to ask you for your knee-jerk reaction first before the nextquestion.
Well, my knee-jerk reaction obviously is from quite news fromit.
Great news fromit.Well, my interpretation of it is obviously from a Westernstandpoint, more specifically from a Britishstandpoint, where actually marriage for quite some time hasn't been as patriarchal ormatriarchal.
And so thisphenomenon, the matter of local marriage that we're talking abouttoday, was actually something that I had to read up on a bit before theshow, because it's pretty unusual in the United Kingdom where basically when most couples getmarried, they will support themselves and get their ownhome.
And when it comes to things like financial support from the husband or wife'sfamily, there's really no rules onthis.
Imean, ithappens, but there's no rules set onit.
Definitely not moving in with thatfamily.
That would be considered quiteunusual.
So forme, my knee-jerk reaction was it seems like something that has been driven by more of a greater sociologicalchange, whichis, Ithink, an economicfactor,really, which is that there's an increasing amount of women entering the workforce and achieving financialstability.
So forme, it seems like something likethis.
That's my knee-jerk reaction toit.
But I imagine that in a country likeChina, there's a lot more to say about it given that traditions likedouries, like youmentioned, and things like this have been in existence for such a longtime.
So a shift like this may be more significant than it wouldbe,say, in my owncountry.
It isinteresting. Andalso, since you brought up complexities ofthings, and everythingis, Ithink, just a lot more nuanced in many ways here inChina, just given the vast size of thecountry, as well as very diverse of peoples in differentregions.
Andalso, I just feellike, youknow, within the bounds ofBeijing, you don't feel like you know that much about people's preferencesor, youknow, the inclinations that drive theirbehavior.
I think just making that as adisclaimer, andalso, if you'd like to figure out more on the complexities and intricacies of the betrothal gifts we've had a deep dive of a discussion a couple of monthsago, I wouldthink.
Andalso, I still don't agree that this is mostly accepted or prevalent in all of ourcountry.
I still think that there are a lot of people or a significant number of people who don't really go by thiscustom, but it is widely accepted by other regions and peoples as itseems.
So it's a complicated matter when we talk about suchissues.
Andalso, I would like to highlightthat, youknow, with these matrilocalmarriages, they might exist in a more formal fashion in the more affluent regions or some of the families within theseregions, because I don't necessarily see this as something that's like widely talkedabout, let'ssay, inBeijing.
But in the affluent district of Xiao Shan inJiangjiang, this seems to be something that people don't raise an eyebrow about and also over there in Xiao Shandistrict,apparently, because it is a well-off place overall and then kudos to the good people in Jiangjiang who are known as shrewd entrepreneurs in thiscountry.
A lot ofthem, or let's say just a fair number of thesefamilies, they have their own companies and factories and they have built up a certain level of wealth and when they have an onlydaughter, often they feel like they want to pamperher.
They don't want her to leavehome, go too far away orwhatnot.
And then sometimes they'relike,okay, we would really prefer a nice young man who loves my daughter and can contribute to herfamily, ourfamily, to come tous.
So there's actually in a way thoughtful consideration of the parents in this and it's an interesting also family dynamics that drive this kind ofphenomenon.
Yeah,actually, youknow, when I do research about this matrilocalmarriage, I'm just a surprise to find that it is not really a new trend here inChina, although it is not really so wet spread trend in contemporaryChina.
But according to some historyexperts, as already as 2007 yearsago, youknow, some wealthy families would really look for a Jewish shoe or a matrilocalson-in-law.
And even like over 1000 years ago during time and so ondynasty, people were said to be even more tolerant about this marriagepatterns.
Ofcourse, I'm not really an expert onthis, but I'm just trying to say that this matrilocal marriage is not really a produce or a product of moderntimes.
But I agree with you and Joshthat, youknow, this kind of marriage pattern is closely related to financial stabilitybecause, youknow, when we talk aboutmarriage, it is so different from romance relationships andwhat, Imean, one primary factor that people wouldconsider, youknow, whether or not to tie the knot with one person is economicstability.
And ofcourse, children and love are also important factors formarriage.
But, youknow, when you look at the wholehistory, Imean, the evolution history ofmarriage, this socialsystem, it has really been closely related to financial stability in the waythat, Imean, in the earliest times marriage actually didn't really serve forromance.
It simply served for a financial political and socialstability.
And that's why we sawsome, youknow, operaclasses, so-called opera classes in Westerncountries.
They werejust, youknow, the marriage would just be arranged by parents in the familiesto, youknow, maintain or even improve their financial or socialstatus.
And for commonpeople, I believe it's also the case because they are just looking for the other person who can just share this production responsibility and even household responsibilitytogether.
And one that comesto,like, Imean, different genderroles.
In traditional Chineseconcept, we havethis,like, Nanzhou-Wai or NiuZhu-Nai, meaning that men are mainly the bright winners and the women are themainly, Imean, caregivers ornurturers.
Basically, it's because we havebeen,like, lived with these traditional narratives that menare,like, more powerful andmore, ofcourse, having more advantages in terms of making money because of this education or economic differences or disparities between men andwomen.
But nowthis, Imean, with the increasing rate of education among femaleand, ofcourse, and they can just enjoy more economicopportunities.
So that's why for girls and their families with strong financialbackgrounds, they can really have a say to decide what kind of men they're lookingfor, theirdaughter, as they're sending alaw, and if they just don't really place this economic factor as to primaryone, ofcourse, they can look for some other criteria as long as theirgirl, their baby girl is happy enough in thismarriage.
Also, I think the occupations that you mentioned earlier on waspopular, was not popular and the most popular one beingstable, but actually not all that well-earning of a state civil servantjob, then I think that's something pretty conspicuous about theirpreferences.
Thatis, they're not looking for some overachiever who makes a lot ofmoney.
They're looking forstability.
They're looking for some guy that can take care of thefamily, that can take up child rearing duties and can really care for the wife aswell.
So reallyfascinating.
And,Josh, in what ways do you think this emerging trend towards macro-local marriages inChina, parallels or diverges from marriage trends in theUS,UK, among othercountries, and particularly regarding men's roles and economic expectations inmarriages?
I think there is a strong contrast with some Western countries to us and to the first part of yourquestion.
Certainly, the idea of macro-localmarriage, it's not common and it's not predominant in most Westerncountries, like my own country in theUK, most Europeannations, also in the US aswell.
Society has more traditionally followed more of a patriarchal or neo-localpattern, which basically means that the couple will establish a new household separate from both sets ofparents.
Andalso, it's similar in a lot of Middle Eastern and North African countries aswell.
Material local marriages not common in many of thesecultures, and the same in a lot of Eastern European countries aswell.
So from what I'veread, it's prettyrare,actually.
Yeah.So, what do you think are the most salient factors that contribute to this emergingphenomenon, despite the fact that we can see that in history it's not like this is something that's not happenedbefore?
Well, I still think economic prosperity is the majorreason, because traditionally when you look at thosevery, very primary and traditional family patterns where male are thebread, winners and women are thenurturers, wherecaregivers, so that just to make women more dependent on her husbandfinancially.
So which also leads to thisvery, verytraditional, patriarchal marriage where women tend to live with the husband's family or nearby the husband'sfamily.
But now here inChina, ofcourse, the overall improvement of living standards and with this accumulation of familywealth, I think for those families who are opting for this matrilocal marriagearrangements, because they know they can really support and provide for the newly married couple with very strong financial background without really placing this financial strain on eitherside.
So that's why this just gives the girl and the families this very strong base to have this freeoption.
And also when you look at women's social and educationalstatus, ofcourse, more women have received higher education here in China compared with decadesago, which could just lead to more economic opportunities forthem.
Women can be more financially independent and empowered to make decisions about what kind of marriage they want and what kind of living arrangements theywant.
And also I think there's this changing socialnorms, especially among youngergenerations.
They really place other factors rather than the two size salaries or financial background as the main factor to be considered when it comes tomarriage.
Maybe they're looking for more equal emotional devotion or more equal household responsibilities or they're just looking for some similar values shared between the two young people rather than solely on financialconsiderations.
So these are all factors that promote this emergence of matrilocal marriages because people don't really think there's really a more superior or inferior side when it comes to marriage based on this financialbackground.
That's a really goodpoint.
But one might wonderthough, let's say for those guys who are visiting the matchmaking agency in XiaoShan, HangzhouCity, you mentionedearlier, LiYi, could these guys be coming to the matchmaker with theintention, with the economic motivation that they want to find a wife that comes with a big house and a big bank account with supportingparents.
And because that's essentially what it is if this guy comes to this occasion with theintention, then do you think his peers or society would look at this without anystigma?
I think traditionally probably the answer isyes.
I'm sure that things are changing right now and evidently it is the case and I think that we will get used to traditions likethis.
But or rather changes in tradition I guess I shouldsay, but I do think that historically matrilocal marriage has obviously been unusual and I think that usually insocieties, men have traditionally held significant economic power and I think that that power can be represented in one of the main things isproperty.
So if the man is physically moving into the property of thefemale, then I guess it could be looked down upon to somedegree.
But again in my own society I don't think this would necessarily be seen as unusualanymore.
I think the more unusual thing or the thing that maybe peoplewould, I wouldn't say look down on but maybe would seem unusual would be moving in with a family atall,right?
Would be moving in withgrandparents.
This is something that's slightly more unusual for our culture I think in the West at least is that maybe the grandparents would play a role in themarriage, presumably in helping to raise the children right but the fact that they'd be physically in the building with this newly marriedcouple, that would be the strange part about it rather than the economic side of things Ithink.
I think also we can think about this phenomenon from the oppositeside.
I mean if traditionally a woman is looking for more powerful financial background from her husband would society really judgeher?
I don't really think so because I mean it's somehow like a natural or traditional perception that the husband and his family should really provide more financial asset to the marriage rather than the women or herfamilies.
And I think of course there are so many different reasons that have lead to this very traditional perception but one is very closely related to the birth and caregivinglabor.
It is because people think that it is usually the women that would take the responsibility of giving birth to a child and also even raising and taking care of this child and even the whole familymembers.
So that's why people would just think that okay as the husband as a man then you should really offer something and in both cases that would just be the financialasset.
But now I think in the modern society people do really have a new understanding of how women and men should share this responsibility within households or withinfamilies.
Theyvalue, they'revalidates, recognize the value of giving birth to a child and also the exhausting responsibilities of taking care of the family and that's why we see more they at home dead and we see more men are also taking the responsibility withinhouseholds.
That's why I think people would just have fewer or less judgment about either men or women are looking for financial stability when it comes to looking for apartner.
Well, also if it's a dual career household youwork, I work too and therefore I think financial stability is something that we both can provide but then of course you know there's also in China the thought of marriages of two families to some extent and then therefore where the background you come from kind of sometimes is being considered as well but for the perspective wives of matrilocal marriages I don't necessarily think that sure she has some choice but I don't think she has all that many choices and just hear me out because traditionally the dating and marriage paradigm usually goes as women are looking for hypergamy that is the tendency to date up and across but if this lady we're still talking in financial terms if she's already up there then who can she lookfor?
