Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable. You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Hayoung.
I'm joined by Yushun and Steve Hatherley in the studio.
Coming up, today we're diving into the colorful world of merchandise in intellectual property development and product sales.
Ever wondered why goods or goods have become such a hot topic.
And figurines to key jains, let's explore what makes these items so irresistible and how they're shaping the ACG landscape.
Get ready to geek out with us.
And for all folks out there who rely on food delivery, have you noticed that your food delivery bill has been creeping up?
That's because packaging fees are the latest hot topic in the Chinese food delivery scene.
Are they justified costs?
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Now let's move on to the next topic discussion today.
Have you ever felt the thrill of unboxing a limited edition figure such as a fierce demon slayer statue or the beautifully detailed hot-suni miku happy 17th birthday version?
These collectibles are more than just merchandise.
They're a gateway to reliving epic moments and connecting with beloved characters in the world of animation, comics and games or ACG, licensing and merchandising have become crucial aspects for creators.
It's not just about entertainment anymore, it's about monetizing content and expanding brand presence.
These collectibles now allow fans to bring a piece of their favorite worlds into their everyday lives.
I need you, you shun to do some translation for us here.
Cool. It's huge in the ACG world.
Have you had some? What does it stand for?
Well, I have to say I'm not a big fan of all of these goods, but goods is actually the transliteration of the Japanese word, goods and the English word goods, of course, because we know that the language of Japanese has many borrowed words from other languages.
So in this area, the phrase ni chuku mao do you eat goods or do you eat crops in Chinese?
Isn't actually asking you about the grains, but of course, is asking if you enjoy buying these ACG merchandise.
But what is interesting is that, you know, goods, which literally translates to patty.
So in this way, in the ACG field, common merchandise is generally divided into two types.
So hard merchandise and soft merchandise and hard merchandise mainly includes figurines and models just like wachayan just said, the figurines of hatsune miku.
Like the little action figures.
Yes. Some of them can be here.
Okay, now, okay. Like, like, even sides.
Well soft merchandise includes badges and that's also another interesting way of people call it baji in Chinese, but I think it's also the same reason with goods.
Also shiny laser tickets and acrylic figurines stands, key chains and other types and all of these are called goods, all goods.
I was in a shopping mall in the central business district of Beijing a few days ago.
And I think I wandered into one of these shops that you're talking about.
I didn't know what was going on in there.
There was a lot of figurines.
It was a lot of cards. It was a lot of merch merchandise and t-shirts and figurines and soft plush dolls as well like teddy bear style stuff.
And there were action figures of characters that I personally didn't recognize, but I can tell you this.
That shop was packed. Oh.
Absolutely packed. And I think I figured it out is that fans who are into these characters and these characters I guess can come from different outlets like summer video game characters, some summer cartoon characters.
If they're fans, then they flock to the stores and that's where they get the merchandise.
And I guess why they're buying the merchandise is perhaps another interesting topic.
Is it for investment? Is it for trading?
Is it just their hobby? I guess maybe a little bit of A, B and C there.
The whole bunch of reasons, I suppose.
And there are some really avid collectors out there, super fans.
But also, there are more terms that I need.
You should help me out here.
There's the Sea View Goods and Lake View Goods.
What does that stand for?
And also, if we're talking about Sea View property, that's usually is a better than Lake View property.
Oh yeah, exactly. But also with climate change, maybe Lake View is better.
So back to what you would say in the ACG world.
Yeah, that's why a lot of people like it, of course.
And then there are some characters that are not that popular.
So these could be the Lake View Goods, which are slightly less rare and expensive than Sea View Goods.
So they categorized all of these characters or goods into different terms like Talmen.
In this way, we caught a thing that is very popular as Zhulemon.
That's called Hot. It's hot.
And then they caught the one that is more popular than this is extremely hot, which is Talmen.
And moderately popular is Wimmen, which means moderately hot and cold as unpopular as Lumin.
So also prices can vary very greatly.
And sometimes to get the extremely popular goods, you have to buy the unpopular ones as well.
So is there just like in luxurious industry, right?
Well, what do you mean? If you need to buy a very expensive bag, you need to buy also some accessories.
Oh, you're referring to that brand which comes with in the iconic orange color, which has a really bad rep.
Yeah, because the handbags are so exclusive that they, I think it's probably unsaid, but the underlying role there is basically you need to buy a, consume to a certain amount of rubbish just so that you garner the ticket to buy that exclusive handbag.
Interesting. I've never heard of that before.
But it sounds like this can become a very expensive hobby collecting these figurines.
If you want it to, meaning there's lots of ways that you can spend a lot of money here, but you don't have to.
You can buy the lake view products and sit by yourself in the cafeteria, I guess, because the sea view kids wouldn't want to hang out with you.
Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but it kind of sounds like the situation here.
Yeah, of course, and when there are different categories or levels of goods, then as you said, people like to collect things.
They always want the rare ones, of course, right?
We can see that this goods circle and the strong purchasing power of its members have shocked those outside of the circle.
So okay, so they go to the shops or wherever, wherever outlet they find to buy their goods, and what's the next step?
They take them home obviously and they put them on display, perhaps.
But then is there a strong online community presence?
Are there meetups I wonder?
Do they meet up for trading purposes?
I know that they do that in Korea because I've seen it with my own two eyes.
Yeah, it is very popular in Korea as well.
It is indeed. Maybe with these figurines, but the example that I'm referencing is K-pop star stuff.
There was a concert one day that was going to take place at 3 p.m.
and I happened to be in the area around 1 p.m.
and the fans had come and set up almost like a little marketplace.
They put their blankets down.
They brought their collectibles and I watched them for a period of time.
What they were doing was they put their stuff down and then one of the members of the group would go around and kind of look at what everyone else had.
If they found something they wanted, then they'd negotiate a trade.
It was like a small functioning economy that they had going on there.
I'm guessing this is part of what's going on here too.
Absolutely. Especially when there are some of these kind of meetings, these fans, well, I think exchange their own goods or in the way that trade.
Also, there are some auctions there.
One of the very famous ones is earlier this year, an auction brought the goods culture into this bottle, a liquid-send majean or a semi-transparent acrylic majean can be auctioned for an astonishing 83,000 yuan.
That's around 11,000 USD.
This auction basically brought up the whole reputation of these goods circle.
I think this can be a really healthy outlet for young people, older people, because it sounds like it's something that people just collect.
That's the positive side of this.
I can see the negative side too, where people could really get addicted to this type of thing, where if they're a member of an online community and their friends or even people that they don't know have these really cool seaside figurines or the more expensive things, they might feel a pressure to spend more money so that they can upgrade their own figurines.
I can see how that would be a slippery slope as well.
That's from the collectors slash consumers and fans point of view.
This is huge for the creators and the companies behind a lot of these very popular intellectual property franchises.
We're seeing that maybe this is a formula that creators in Japan, in the US, in China, as well these days, everybody's playing a game and with a few really popular homegrown video games in this country, they are doing exactly this and it is popular.
That is why more and more people are buying these domestic goods instead of Japanese anime or games.
In recent years, Chinese novels and games, animations and radio dramas have continuously developed, accumulating a large fanbase among young people or among people in China.
For example, the badges or badges from the Chinese game company Miho Yos, Game Genshin Impact, a yuan shan, have sold over 100,000 or even 300,000 units for several products just on its TMA flagship store, which is its official domestic online shop.
With total batch sales exceeding 5 million from a single store and other domestic companies such as Tencent, NetEase, Happy Elements are also increasingly focusing on these physical, peripheral products.
If you think about how much money these characters can make for a company, there must be a tremendous amount that goes into the design of these characters, right?
They know if they hit the jackpot with one of these designs or with the attitude of the character or the way the character talks or whatever the case may be.
If they get it right, this can make a tremendous amount of money for a particular company.
Yeah, just think about the Star Wars franchise, right?
Baby Yoda. Do you know what I'm talking about when I say Baby Yoda?
I'm not a fan. I've never watched Star Wars, but I know Baby Yoda because I've seen it being sold in supermarkets and stuff.
Oh my goodness. Baby Yoda is one of the characters in a show called The Mandalorian and there are articles all over the internet that suggest that when Disney created this character, they absolutely struck gold.
People started watching that TV show just before the reason of how cute Baby Yoda was.
And also it explains why or partially explains why Disney bought this franchise off the creator of Star Wars.
Lucas, George Lucas. Yeah, because now, you know, it's not just the movie, the TV show itself, but it's after a map.
How can you monetize it?
And merchandising and licensing have become such a big part of it.
It's massive and it's almost endless.
I mean, keychains, t-shirts, pillows, backpacks, shoes, socks, you name it, they can make it, right?
Figurines, small figurines, human size, cardboard, cut out, steady bears.
I mean, it's just, it's the options are endless.
Yeah. Yeah, it actually reminded me another point is that the importance of copyright in domestic markets is being more and more aware, right?
Domestic consumers emphasis on these copyright is also making the whole industry more regulated.
The rise of any of these kind of trends is often accompanied by rapid proliferation of pirated goods.
And which have a terrifyingly strong ability to penetrate markets.
But as public awareness of these law improves along with emergence of related legal cases, consumers awareness of copyright is also strengthening and making the whole market promising.
Hmm. And I think you point to something really essential here.
That is, you need this really appealing, attractive, long-lasting of appeal of the intellectual property franchise to start with.
And then I think the comforting thing here is that, you know, with more of this legal protection and awareness of the consumers, then those who bear the brainchild, who put in all the effort in creating these stories and characters, and then maybe they can truly benefit more from it as opposed to, well, you know, maybe it's one time buyout and then they don't really sort of benefit more from what they've created.
Yeah. I think that's the business point of view.
And I think on the consumer point of view, this can be a really important hobby to people.
What I mean is it means a lot to them.
A former coworker of mine, not talking about these specific figurines, but there's a doll that's famous in Japan.
Now she's not from Japan.
She's from the United States.
I won't mention the name of the doll.
But anyway, this brand of doll, it is insanely popular.
They have a conference once a year, no joke in the dolls, the in Tokyo, where the owners of the dolls travel together with their dolls to this conference and then they share their stories about them.
There's a massive social media site where they become friends with each other and they share the stories of their dolls and things like that.
This is bigger than I think we realize and I think to a lot of people, this is their number one hobby.
And if done healthily, I think it's kind of a good thing for people.
Right. And this used to be a pretty niche culture or subculture when I was growing up.
But now it seems like there's maybe a wider acceptance to doing this.
And it's not seen as just some kids from elementary school and teenagers might be collecting these figurines and all kinds of like cars, key chains and other kinds of merch.
But it could be adults and some high achievers contributing members of society, they've even proudly sort of flown their nerd flags on this.
And that's great. One example is Gu Tia-Lua.
He's a great actor from Hong Kong.
And he apparently has a warehouse of statue, real human being size figurines of like the Marvel universe and all kinds of other stuff.
And he's shared some of these photos online.
And of course, you know, the ACG fans were, I suppose, very jealous of him.
Yeah, going crazy. And he probably got a bunch of new fans on that day, I guess.
Also of course, many companies have seen, you know, the profit in this area and collaborating a lot of these ACG game companies or anime companies.
A lot of these companies viewed the commercialization as a crucial part of, you know, their brand development.
And you're listening to Roundtable coming up.
If you're a fan of ordering in, you might have spotted a new line item on your bill, watching these, that's the latest trend in the Chinese food delivery world has everyone talking.
Are they a necessary evil for sustainable packaging or just a sneaky way to boost profits?
Stay tuned. It's the hour of Roundtable with myself, young.
I'm joined by Yushun and Steve Hatherley in the studio.
In the fast paced food delivery business in China, there's new buzz that's hotter than your morning latte.
Packaging fees. From your favorite local eateries to the big name global chains, everyone seems to be adding a little extra to your bill.
For these nephew takeout containers and bags, are these fees a fair trade off for eco-friendly packaging or just a sneaky way to hike prices?
This seems all of a sudden packaging fees are being added to the bill of some big global chains and big companies in food delivery in China.
So tell us about all this buzz.
Yeah, recently Chinese food delivery market sees more brands decide to charge their packaging fees or have been doing so.
The list of brands goes from global food giants such as Starbucks and KFC to local established brands such as the Milk Tea brand Chaji or Ba Wang Chaji.
So basically their packaging fees can range from one, one, two, maybe three, one for each package and this may vary from different ways of counting it.
For example, maybe they may charge for each item or they may change for this single order of your delivery.
So I think also that is one of the reasons why consumers are complaining about it.
There is no standards of charging packaging fees.
It's just up to the individual companies.
So you mentioned the coffee company and then the chicken company.
Those two companies independently made up their own mind about increasing their packaging fees or introducing this new cost.
This is not a policy that was introduced to Beijing or the rest of the country.
This is just an independent decision from the business.
This seems to be the case and previously there are other companies a lot less well known.
They've been charging packaging fees but now I suppose the bigger the brand and all of a sudden when you're charging extra fees then people are talking about it.
And with the coffee brand actually it came out to explain that they're not blatantly adding new fees in the sense that yes, there's this charge of packaging fees but it's going to be offset in its delivery fees that they're reducing the amount, the equal amount in the delivery fees.
So the price doesn't actually change in that one particular case.
Exactly. Because they're really trying to calm the internet users' complaints, says of us.
So when you're talking about having to pay for packaging fees, okay, so let's use an example of a coffee company.
If you get a coffee delivered to our radio studio, does that mean that you're paying for the paper bag that it comes in and the cardboard thing that they stick it in so it doesn't spill and the cup and the plastic lid, all of that.
That's what you're being charged for.
Yes, of course. And also the delivery fee.
Okay. I'll play devil's advocate.
Why not? Why shouldn't we pay for that?
I was thinking is that because some of these companies they used to charge actually a big amount of delivery fee.
And I have always been thinking that is all included, no matter it's the delivery fee or the package fee.
And in that way, if they are charging extra money for, they're saying the package, I'm not the one who accepted.
I will just go to the store.
Yeah. I understand your point.
And I understand how netizens feel about this as well.
The only point I was trying to make is if we go to a sit-down restaurant, right, a brick and mortar.
And we sit down and we order some rice.
Well, that rice will come out on a plate.
We don't have to pay for the plate because that plate can be reused.
It can be washed and used again by the restaurant.
When we get takeout or when we get delivery, that restaurant ordered and paid for those takeout containers.
So if that cost is being passed on to us, is that something we should really be complaining about?
I think the problem is they're doing this now, but all of a sudden.
And for consumers, it's very confusing.
Why now? Why all of a sudden?
There's no policy. You're just making a decision.
You must be trying to save money and you are charging me for it.
I think that's probably the biggest reaction.
Yes, the consistency, I think, is also one of the reasons that these consumers are complaining because maybe, back then, people will think that all of your no matter is a packaging fee are included in the price that I paid for.
Right. And now, you're not saying anything that we're having new policies, but you're just charging it for no reason.
And the consistency is not consecutive enough for consumers to accept it.
And if you're going to charge me for the packaging, then shouldn't you be reducing the food cost to me by the same amounts so that I shouldn't be paying anymore to be a loyal customer at your business?
Is that not worth anything to you?
I get that argument, too.
I totally do. Right. There are also some reviews talking about in different Chinese cities.
New regulation have been rolled out about stricter rules and let's say sorting out trash in some of this sort of the emanaging waste.
And therefore, these companies are kind of responding to local regulations as well that at least it gives them some reason to think about the environmental cost of deliveries and all these excessive packaging waste that we've talked about for years in this country.
And in the past, the discussion often has been revolving around why over-package all these foods and drinks that are being delivered to us.
The reason is that it's just so much easier for the restaurants and cafes to over-package than deal with your complaints and sending stuff back to you again.
Absolutely. It's like when you go to the supermarket and you buy three bananas, right?
You'll find those bananas sometimes wrapped in a Styrofoam pack.
Then you'll have the plastic wrap on top of that and then the Styrofoam container.
When all you're going to do is immediately take off all of that plastic in Styrofoam and put it in the recycling, right?
So what's the point? Well, the point is they have to keep things in perfect conditions for their customers, the food, because if they don't, just like you said, oh boy, look out.
The complaints would cost them a whole lot more than those containers do.
So what do you think is likely going to be the impact of this in the future?
Are we going to see more folks who are going to turn up in the storefront and then just buy your drinks and meals there instead of sitting on your couch and waiting for the delivery?
Well, how much is the average increase in price?
How much are people paying for the packaging fee?
It depends on the company.
Sometimes it's one yuan, sometimes maybe three yuan, basically within that range.
But for price sensitive young people or price sensitive consumers, when I'm only, quote unquote, only paying 10 or 20 yuan for an order, that amount is a lot, a huge proportion actually.
Particularly if you order food three times a week, you know, over the course of a month, it's going to add up, isn't it?
So you're right for people who are sensitive to that.
And that's by the way, that's not a criticism if you're sensitive to that.
That means you're smart.
But I think there are a lot of people who just don't pay attention to that, perhaps that type of small extra cost.
So overall to answer your question, will there be a big change?
My guess would be this will be news for a period of time and then it'll disappear.
And hopefully there will be a clear pricing standards for at least most of these companies to set up and let consumers see that how much of their packaging fees is going to be in every store.
Well, this discussion around packaging fees challenges us to rethink our values and priorities.
In a world where convenience often comes at a hidden cost, it's crucial to consider the broader impact of our decisions.
Are we supporting practices that align with our principles of fairness and sustainability?
Are we inadvertently contributing to a cycle of waste and dissatisfaction?
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Thank you Yushun and Steve Hatherley in the studio.
And thank you for tuning in.
You can find us on Apple Podcast at Roundtable China.
I'm Hayoung. See you next time.
