Hello, lovely.
I'm Maria.
And my name is Rory.
We're the hosts of the IELTS Speaking for Success podcast.
The podcast aims to help you improve your speaking skills, as well as your listening skills, along the way.
This is the 30th episode of season three, and we've decided to make it special.
Today, we have an ex-IELTS examiner on our podcast.
And because Rory is a gentleman and said I can do all the hard work, I'm going to interview the ex-IELTS examiner to fish out some secrets about IELTS.
By the way, Rory, I saw these pictures on Instagram of you and Ivan at a studio.
What's it all about?
Why are there three of you?
Oh yeah, we went to a studio and recorded the video content for our first online course, IELTS Speaking for Success.
And there's three of me, because one of me will be Rory band five to six to demonstrate what it's like speaking at lower bands, not just five to six lower bands in general.
And the other one will be Rory band eight to nine to show higher level speaking efforts.
And then we've got the main one. of me to narrate and explain exactly what's happening.
This is amazing and exciting.
So people can prepare for IELTS speaking three times faster now, right?
Kind of.
Obviously it'll depend on how hard they work.
So what's so special about it?
How is it different from other IELTS preparation courses?
Just because there are three of you?
Not quite.
There's other reasons it's special as well.
First of all, you can't prepare for IELTS just by watching videos.
That's just common sense.
You've got to practice.
So our course gives you all of this theory in video format.
And of course, you can ask me questions on the course as well.
But you also get the practice that you need to successfully pass the exam.
It's a four week course that will start on the first day of each month.
The theory part consists of eight pre-recorded videos on all three parts of the exam and the criteria which are used to assess the candidates.
And the videos are going to be totally free for the first month to help people along the way.
Woohoo!
Alright, so if I just want the theory, I can watch the course for free for the first month.
And if I need practice with everything that you've talked about, I sign up for the full version of the course, right?
Yeah, exactly.
In the practical part of the course we'll be doing things like mock tests with feedback, going over case studies, listening to exclusive episodes of the podcast where I'm doing the IELTS speaking test as well.
And then we get to share the experience in the speaking club and even more things.
Actually, we're planning even more in addition to these.
But you can see like you have the free experience with just the videos, and then you have everything else with the full experience.
So where do i find more information about it?
I need to see it with my own eyes.
Well, you've just got to go to successwithieltscom forward slash speaking.
Woo, yes, we have a brand new website.
So check out our website, successwithiles.com.
The link is in the description.
So you can just go there and sign up for the course.
Okay, I better go back to preparing all the material for the course, but good luck with the interview, Maria.
Hopefully it'll be good and help people with their preparation.
Thank you, Rory.
It's going to be awesome.
Here I have Brandon.
Hello!
Brandon is an ex-IELTS examiner, an experienced teacher and a SELTA trainer.
That's right.
Yeah.
And today I'm going to ask Brandon questions about IELTS.
So Brandon, tell us, how long have you been teaching IELTS?
Nearly 20 years now.
I can still remember the first day I taught it, when somebody just gave me a book and said you're teaching IELTS.
20 years?
Nearly 20 years.
Wow.
And you were an IELTS examiner.
I was, yeah.
How long were you an IELTS examiner?
I was an IELTS examiner for nine years in Bangkok and Chiang Mai.
Nine years.
Nine years in Bangkok?
Only Bangkok?
And Chiang Mai.
Chiang Mai.
Okay.
Wow.
Wow.
And were you a speaking examiner or a writing examiner?
Both.
We had to do both, speaking and writing.
As an examiner, as a speaking examiner, right, what do you expect students to do to achieve band 7?
Firstly, most importantly, is not to memorize answers.
It sounds very artificial.
You know, we have a lot of candidates who come in and they memorize whole scripts and often they're off topic.
So in order to raise your band score to seven or above, you really need to be working on vocabulary and natural pronunciation.
You know some band 7?
The grammar is not always perfect, so the vocabulary needs to be well developed, with collocations, phrasal verbs, idiomatic language, etc.
So they can make mistakes and still get band 7.
Yeah, do you listen as you see?
Yeah, as long as you understand everything they say.
And many students, they worry about their pronunciation, accents.
Accent is nothing to worry about, but yes, you do need to, you know, pronounce in a way that makes you understood.
And it's not just pronouncing individual words.
It's like, you know, is it pronounced naturally?
Is the intonation natural?
Are there natural pauses?
Things like that.
Yeah.
Do many candidates, students, get band 9?
It's reasonably uncommon.
I have had some get band 9.
Often they are native speakers who, for whatever reason, their jobs require them to do IELTS.
So some of them got 9.
And some.
For example, in Thailand, some of the people who were educated in international schools got nine.
But apart from that, it's reasonably uncommon.
Native speakers should take IELTS.
Yeah, for example, if you're going to live and work in Australia and I think Canada.
Australia, I know, you need to get a band 8.
Wow.
If you're from England?
Yeah.
Wow.
Dear listeners.
Wow.
Shocking news.
Some of them don't get it.
Some of them, some native speakers don't get Van Nuyn.
Wow.
Okay.
Would you say that IELTS is a very difficult exam?
No, I wouldn't.
Certainly for up to band six, I'd say that most people were capable of getting a band six.
After band six, it gets more difficult, but that's about vocabulary more than anything.
And there are certain patterns you can look out for in IELTS that make it easy.
For example, and there's one pattern that's very useful for the speaking exam opinion, because example condition conclusion.
So if students are able to practice with that structure, then it ensures that they give a complete answer.
And interestingly, if you think about it, That's also the same structure for paragraphs.
You give an opinion, you give a reason, example, condition, conclusion.
And further than that, if you look at an IELTS reading text, you'll see the same structure running through it.
So students who learn and practice with these simple structures can do well.
Yeah.
Any more life hacks?
So, in a speaking test, what should you do?
Okay.
Well, firstly, what you should not do.
Yeah, should not do.
Right.
So, for example, if the examiner says to you, Is music important in your culture?
Don't say music is important in my culture because they're not your words.
You're just repeating the exam.
Now what I often tell the students to do and it goes against everything that people tell teachers usually say is just give a one word answer and then elaborate.
So for example, if the examiner says, do you like shopping?
One word answer, absolutely.
And then explain rather than say, yes, I like shopping because it's not natural.
And the other thing with that is the examiner is not expecting that.
The examiner is expecting, yes, I like shopping.
The examiners are very tired.
Right.
When they're examining, they might have to examine 20 people.
So 20 people in a row, non-stop.
Yeah, yeah.
And if you give a confident one-word answer and the examiner will go, oh, wake up.
I say to candidates that your job when you're doing the exam is to wake the examiner up by doing something different.
Wow.
Interesting.
Okay.
Anything else that they shouldn't do?
As I've said, they shouldn't memorize responses and try to prepare for questions, because the questions change all the time.
And certainly they should be, you know, listening very closely to what the examiner is saying.
As an examiner, can you choose the questions you ask them?
Yes, we've got what we call question frames and you have to choose a number from that frame.
But you can't change the questions themselves?
No, we can't.
So if, for example, the examiner asks me, do you like computer games?
And I say no.
And then the next question can be, what kind of computer games do you like?
If the candidate is not giving a full response, the examiner will say why.
Can you give me an example?
And examiners are usually nice people.
So they want you to be successful.
I mean, you know, we're always looking at how we can get, you know, justify giving a higher rather than a lower grade.
Yeah. and examiners can be natives or non-natives anybody can one thing I forgot to mention yes you were asking me about hacks and what to do what not to do okay in part three of the well okay let's say part two right where you're given a topic okay You could talk about Mickey Mouse there because the examiner is not examining you on the content of what you say, but your language ability.
So if you realize that you're off topic, don't panic.
All right.
Describe a wild animal you saw, if I have no idea, Mickey Mouse.
Yeah.
Wow.
I'm not encouraging that, but I'm saying don't panic if you realize that you're going off topic.
And then your score is really hanging in the balance, right?
When it gets to part three, that's when the examiner will decide your score.
Part three, not part two?
Well, the examiner will have listened to you, of course, but he will have two scores in his mind when it comes to part three.
Part three will determine which one he gives.
Part three confirms.
Yeah.
Wow, dear listener, do you get it?
Part three confirms your grade.
Right.
So you make the impression.
During part one, part two, you kind of show off your language and then part three confirms it.
Yeah.
Wow, okay.
And if you notice the examiner asking you more difficult questions in part three, that's because he thinks I think this person could be a higher band.
Oh, wow.
Nice.
Nice.
And in part three, can I speak about myself?
Well, no, it's usually, it's an interview anyway, so it's more interactive and it's more abstract.
So, for example if, part two they asked you to describe a place near water, the type of questions that you'd get in part three would be how difficult is it to have clean water supplies in poor countries, right?
But yes, I mean, you can say in my experience and things like that.
But not just always.
For me, I like water.
Right.
More generally.
Okay.
What are some of the most common mistakes students do in a speaking exam?
Ah, there's one very common one, all right?
So, for example, the student doesn't understand what the examiner says.
Now, instead of saying which you can and the examiner can help you, instead of saying could you clarify the question, could you rephrase the question they say?
Could you repeat the question?
Hmm.
If they didn't understand it the first time, they're not going to understand it when the examiner repeats it.
So, be aware, the examiner can help you.
You know, not in part one actually, sorry.
In part three.
They can rephrase the question and make it simpler.
Yeah, if you don't get the question, can you rephrase it exactly?
Could you paraphrase it?
If I understand correctly, you're asking me this.
But you know, don't ask them to repeat if you don't understand, because they'll just say it again and you still don't understand.
Can you ask the examiner questions?
Like, oh, what about you?
What do you think?
Not really.
I mean, actually, it's never happened to me.
That's a funny one.
I don't know.
No, I wouldn't say so because the examiner is, you know, finding out about your ideas.
Okay.
What about writing?
Any mistakes that usually...
Yeah, basically.
I mean, when I'm teaching IELTS, I teach and training IELTS teachers.
I tell them look, you've got 40 minutes for part two.
Task one is toilet paper, because task two is worth double the score.
Now the mistake that students make a couple of mistakes, so they spend 45 minutes on task one, not realizing that they're not going to have time to complete task two.
Another mistake is they start with task two, which I think is a mistake, because if you do that, in the back of your mind you're thinking I haven't done task one yet, I haven't done task one yet and you're not focusing.
And the third thing is they don't spend enough time planning their response.
People often say, If I spend as much time planning as you're telling me, then I can't do it.
Well, I say, if you don't spend time planning it, you're going to be off topic.
And, you know, I can... And I have.
I've trained people to complete uh ielts task 2 40 minutes.
I've trained them to do it in 13 minutes.
So they've got all that extra time to check their work, to clarify it, to add, to edit.
And, as an examiner, do you read the writing once or four times?
Because there are four criteria.
No, I mean, you know, as you become more experienced, you know the first time you just skim it very quickly.
You have a score in your mind and then you might just cross-reference quickly.
But the examiners are very good at marking the writing pretty quickly to get an idea very quickly.
So if I give you an essay, you just spend five minutes and you tell me the score?
Yeah.
And when you check it, you write down four digits, so four band scores.
That's right.
There are four criteria, so four band scores.
And then the system calculates the overall writing score.
That's right.
Lovely.
One of our listeners asks you to give the answer to an IELTS speaking question.
Okay, so let's imagine that you are a candidate.
You are taking the speaking test and the question is about losing things and it's speaking part two.
So describe a situation when you lost something and then got it back.
Yeah, this was about...
About 20 years ago when I first moved to Japan, I was so fascinated with Japan.
I had been there the year before for the World Cup and I thought I want to go back.
And I had an opportunity to go back there and teach.
And I was kind of walking around all the time with my eyes wide open in shock, didn't understand what was going on.
And, you know, consequently, I lost my wallet there one day.
And I was pretty panic stricken because it had all my important stuff in it credit cards cash, all that kind of stuff.
And then I thought, OK, I don't expect to see it again.
It's gone.
One week later, it came back to me in the post.
Nothing missing from it.
Okay.
And I later found out it was, and of course I was relieved.
But I later found out that the Japanese are kind of a very honour bound society and they would never steal or take anything from you.
So it came as a great surprise to me and, you know, a very good surprise.
But yeah, that's one occasion I can remember losing something and later getting it back.
And I had no hope of getting it back.
I'd just completely forgotten about it.
But it arrived, as I said, in the post one week later with a nice letter.
Wow, Brandon, band nine.
If I were an examiner, I'd wake up, you know.
That's a story.
Wow.
Well, another thing I wanted to say about task two.
All right.
Now, task two is very easy.
And the one technique is just to think of five memorable events or stories from your life, right?
Maybe your first day at school, the best book you've read, right?
For example.
So, you know, I can...
And if you keep practicing these stories in your head, practice telling them to each other, you can twist these stories to match anything in task two.
Example.
And I said this one before.
Another common question that I've seen in task two is name a place near water that you like visiting.
So, okay, I'll give you a quick example.
When I was much younger, I was fighting in Germany and I had a very, very bad eye injury.
I got bruised, you know a very bad injury, and it was on an army base in Germany and the doctor couldn't help me because he was not an eye specialist.
So he said when you go back to England, see an eye specialist and I did, and he said it's going to be okay, but you need to just stay at home for two weeks and do nothing, Right?
Now, at the moment, you can't see a connection between that story and the place near water that you enjoy visiting.
But so the doctor told me to stay at home.
But after about three days I was getting very restless and I went out on my bicycle and I went to a place called Alexandra Palace in London where there's a huge lake, so you can see, you can any story that you have in your mind.
You can make it fit anything in part two.
You just have to be a good storyteller and practice practice practice amazing yeah, and you can make the exam the laugh yeah, or cry yeah, or whatever yeah, wake them up yeah, that's your job, to wake the examiner up.
And which is more difficult, do you think for students, writing or speaking?
I think writing, because students are scared of writing and scared of grammar.
But what they've got to understand is grammar is only 25% of their grade.
So I think, yeah, people tend to be more scared about writing.
So that makes it a bit more difficult.
Yeah.
Can you say that you are an IELTS guru?
I have been called an IELTS guru by other people.
I wouldn't describe myself as one.
But yeah.
Well, but you do know many things about IELTS in depth.
Wow.
Amazing.
Yeah.
So thank you very much for your answers.
You're very welcome.
And, dear listeners, if you want some private classes with our super guru, IELTS Brandon, you can write to him.
Brandon, what's your email?
Yeah, it's Mac Brendan.
So that's M-A-C Brendan, B-R-E-N-D-A-N at hotmail.co.uk.
So not hotmail.com, co.uk.
Yes, we will include Brendan's email into the description.
Can people find you on Facebook?
Yeah.
What's your name on Facebook?
Brendan McAvoy.
Yeah, McAvoy.
How do you spell McAvoy?
M-C-E-V-O-Y.
Yeah, so just find Brandon on Facebook.
You're not on Instagram.
I am on Instagram, but I don't know.
Oh, you are?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, so just find Brandon on Facebook for some IELTS classes, for some nice chit-chat.
Okay um, thank you very much for your and also i'd mention, if any teachers are interested in doing some ielts uh training, teacher training, i'm available for that as well.
Yes uh, dear teachers, if you're planning to teach any ielts classes, so we have a super person who can train you up.
And where in the world have you worked?
Well, for many years I was based in Bangkok, but my CELTA training work took me all around the world.
So all around Asia.
And I've also worked in Europe as well.
You are my personal hero.
And now you're based in Petigorsk.
Yeah, Petigorsk, Russia.
Petigorsk, Russia.
Yes, it's the Caucasus.
Yeah.
Yes, close to the mountains.
Dear listeners, thank you very much for listening.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Bye-bye.
Thank you very much.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
