daily news and analysis we keep you informed and inspired this is world today Top leaders of Russia and the United States to meet in Alaska.
Can Europe salvage its influence at the talks?
Chinese navy expels US destroyer intruding territorial waters around Huangyan down. and China to provide interest subsidies on personal consumption loans for a one-year trial.
Welcome to Road Today, a news program with a different perspective.
I'm Ge'Anna in Beijing. To listen to this episode again or to catch up on previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today.
Our top story, White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt. has downplayed expectations for the upcoming meeting between U.S.
President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin calling the meeting a listening exercise for the president.
The goal of this meeting for the president is to walk away with a better understanding of how we can end this war.
And I think the President of the United States getting in the room with the President of Russia, sitting face to face rather than speaking over the telephone will give this president the best indication of how to end this war and where this is headed.
The White House says Trump and Putin will meet one on one in Anchorage, Alaska.
Key issues remain ahead of the talks. Trump says territorial concessions may be needed to resolve the three-year conflict.
But Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says his country's constitution prohibits such a deal. that no decisions can be made without Ukraine's participation in talks.
For more on this, let's have Dr. Zhang Xin, Deputy Director of the Center for Russian Studies.
Thanks for joining us, Professor. Thanks for having me.
Professor, the White House has released more details about the upcoming Trump-Putin meeting. confirming that the two presidents will meet on the 15th in Anchorage, Alaska, Both sides say they expect the summit to go smoothly.
How do you interpret the level of optimism from Washington and Moscow?
I wouldn't read these statements as a sort of absolute message about optimism. from both sides because one can easily see a statement from both sides that point to a slightly different As the announcer just already mentioned, a spokesperson from the White House already called the meeting, the listening exercise, or in a different context, calling it a feel about meeting. which obviously is an attempt to lower the expectation.
So I think at this moment, Both sides want to keep people's hopes up, but not to an extremely high level. particularly from the United States side, because if there is nothing concrete substantial enough from the talk, it will be regarded as somewhat a diplomatic failure, particularly for Trump. which is not something the White House and President Trump is willing to see.
As we mentioned, the White House has also sought to lower expectations, calling the meeting a listening game. exercise for the president.
Where does Washington see the main challenges in these talks?
The main challenge, I think, was, first of all, lies in the feasibility of territorial swap or land swap. as part of the key components of the proposal, at least as we learned from public sources.
The proposal raised by President Trump to its Russian counterparts because Obviously, it's that kind of land swap.
The conditions are not well received by either the Ukrainian state or representative from the European side? and also the specific components of the last walk itself may not be actually completely agreeable for Russia.
So this, I think, is an important technical but also political barrier in or reaching a deal. between the United States and Russia.
I think secondly, also equally important is the negotiate and any particular view that might come out of this meeting is not only about the political settlement, a possible political settlement between Russia and Ukraine. between the United States and Russia, this negotiation and any possibility of coming out of it. is going to be concerned with possible normalization of U.S.-Russia relations. and a set of other possible larger geopolitical deals that may go beyond even recurring Russia or Russia-United States.
But on that, whether there's any consensus already between Russia and the United States, it's very difficult to see.
For example, the conditions Russia is very keen on, is to get rid of all the sanctions, whether that's doable or political feasible from the United States. as part of the deal between U.S. and Russia.
For now, it's difficult to tell. That's also, I think, another major plug or barrier.
Professor, we know Ukraine, a key factor in this equation has been left out of the meeting.
Earlier British media suggested that President Zelensky might be softening his stance potentially agreeing to a ceasefire and making territorial concessions.
But just a day later, Zelenskyy made it clear that Ukraine will reject any Russian proposal to trade a ceasefire for the Donbass region.
How do you interpret Kyiv's recent statements and how might Ukraine respond to this U.S.-Russia summit?
The Ukraine states, including President Zelensky's statement, obviously show hostility. that it stands on political settlement of the military conflict between Russia and Ukraine is highly volatile.
On the one hand, you can see very clearly see President Zelensky's insistence on nonviolability of Ukraine's territorial integrity.
So any give up or swap of territory is a non is a no-no deal, as a no-no condition for political settlement.
On the other hand, the political reality on the battlefield on one hand and also the political dynamics as we see from the United States and Russia, a possible political, football reaching a deal is making the upholding these territorial integrity conditions increasingly difficult.
So I think the statements that we see from Mr. Zelensky in the past few days, as well as any similar statements from him or from a representative of... ukraine state in the coming few days very likely will show some volunteer volatility for some back-end force, it's probably a very logical results as a reflection of the volatility as we see in the battlefield as well as we see in the larger political arena involving around the ongoing military conflict.
Professor, from US perspective, why doesn't Washington want to bring Zelenskyy into this summit?
Was Trump administration's strategy in this?
Could Ukraine become a bargaining chip? for Washington, as many European media outlets have accused.
I think the overall picture to me is President Trump lost some of its patience with Ukraine.
He has openly blamed President Zelensky for not playing along with his peace plan or his proposal for ending the military conflict.
And also overall, President Trump sees himself and the United States overall as the unquestionable leader in the mediation of the whole situation and increasingly he sees the solution that any feedable solution will come primarily from, negotiation with President Putin.
So Zelensky himself as well as Ukraine is a somewhat insignificant actor in President Trump's perceived political solution.
So I think that's the larger story. Of course, on and off, President Trump also showed some dissatisfaction and possible lose of patience equally with his Russian counterparts on and off.
But overall, I think on the larger picture, See, fundamentally, this is a negotiation or a bargaining he will conduct with the President put in ideally in a one-on-one setting and set the whole tone for the set the whole tone, set the whole framework for political settlement of the military conflict.
So that's the logic. Sorry. Whether it's a bargaining chip, it's possible, but I don't...
I think that's the main story going on right now.
I think President Trump is playing the whole sort of situation. in evolving around the ukraine as a bargaining chip possible bargaining chip was um The primary was its European allies, not Ukraine in particular.
Professor, let's shift the gear to Europe.
Some EU analysts argue that Europe's exclusion from the Alaska meeting means the continent has been frozen out of discussion. crucial to its own security.
Do you agree with that view? And from Washington's perspective, How seriously does it take European concerns and what role does the US see for Europe? in Russia Ukraine negotiations at this moment.
To a large extent, I agree with the statement in just the readout.
Europe in general has been left out. has been very much marginalized for the possible political settlement that may come out of this Alaska meeting.
I think some of my European colleagues really complaining or lamenting that in history it will have to trace really long time, back to a long time of the 7th century. years ago or even a whole millennium ago, where European countries have been almost completely locked out. in a political, possible political settlement of something that of such immediate concern was the Europeans' own security.
So I think that's an unfortunate reality for most of the European countries.
Now the situation looks like some sort of a Yalta 2.0 is repeating itself. just without a legitimate, appropriate European participant in it.
And that's something also special a lot of the continental European countries are really hesitant to see. if we look at the equation united states really look at uh what's whatever going on in ukraine as more or less a proxy war on behalf of the United States.
Europeans are left out. And those concerns by European countries, the United States so far take it as at most a secondary, if not completely secondary. marginalized.
And when the United States is going to negotiate, for example, the reduction of sanction possible reduction of sanction against Russia as a part of the deal.
I don't think the Trump administration will take a European's concern as the top priority rather than whether any possible deals will lead to a somewhat satisfactory factory results on the battlefield between Ukraine and Russia and also between larger, longer geopolitical balance between Russia and the United States.
So on this scenario, in this scenario, Europeans are Yeah, it's completely marginalized and sidelined.
Thanks, Professor. Appreciate your take on this.
That was Dr. Zhang Xin, Deputy Director of the Center for Russian Studies. at East China Normal University.
This is Ro today. Stay with us. Now turning our attention to the South China Sea, the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy has expelled U.S. destroyer that illegally intruded the territorial waters around the island of Huangyandao.
A spokesperson for the Southern Theater Command says the U.S. military's actions severely violate China's sovereignty and security. under my peace and stability in the South China Sea. and violate international law and the basic norms of international relations.
The spokesperson says the naval forces of the command will remain on high alert to safeguard national sovereignty security, and regional peace and stability.
So to delve into this, let's bring in Dr. Rong Ying, chair professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
Professor, a U.S. destroyer violated China's territorial water near Huangyan Dao shortly after the Philippine Coast Guards appeared in the same area.
So could you please explain the illegality of these actions?
Well, definitely, I think both the Philippines and also, of course, the US Navy, the destroyer, the actions which has illegally intruding into the adjacent waters of the Huangyan Dao. is not only illegal, illegitimate, but also challenges China's sovereignty, security,
And also I think complicating and raising the tension undermining peace and stability of the South China Sea.
I think the statement by the Chinese Coast Guard and also I think the PRA is a southern command. made very clear the United States, the Navy, US Navy destroy entered the adjacent waters and find that without approval, of the Chinese government, which I think is a loud and clear sort of evidence that this is an illegal activities by the US Navy.
What makes the situation even more dangerous is, of course, the United States has always been claiming that its activities aimed at the so-called exilators of the right for the purpose of freedom navigation, which itself has been not only challenged from legal point, but also I think raise a lot of problems, tensions. not only with China, certainly, and also with other climates states in the region and beyond.
So totally illegal, illegitimate, and the dangerous and the perverted move by the United States Navy and in coordination or in collaboration with the Philippines Coast Guard.
Speaking of this, we know the United States frequently stirs trouble in the South China Sea, So how do you assess the impact of recent U.S.-Philippine military interactions on the regional stability?
Yeah, definitely. I think one cannot but thinking about the activities or the incidents. as being a coordinated land provocations against China cause raise the many questions, but most importantly, the tensions in the region.
And as you rightly said that over the past few months, We have seen more and more provocative activities by the Philippine side. on the question on China and also in waters of this disputed territories, Ireland and others with China.
This is definitely a new effort by the United States in collaboration with the Philippines.
And also, I think we have seen that in the past few months, the United States are not only working with the Philippines, but also with its other allies.
The Australians and others are conducting exercises, which again, have been very provocative, raising the tensions. kept complicating the situation in the region.
Professor, as you said, the US has long intervened in the South China Sea under the ally label and frequently conducts military cooperation with the Philippines.
What's the real intention behind the U.S. using the Philippines to contain China?
And how might this utilization affect the Philippines' own interests in the long run?
Clearly, I think the United States has a strategic consideration geopolitical agenda. which of course it's known to all that it wanted to contain suppress China's rise.
And this is, again, not a secret, rather it's an open secret.
The United States has taken China as the primary rival and does not want to see China It is in this regard that, against this background, that we have seen in recent years, particularly, I think, the demonstration, the coming of power demonstration of course, see the growing military alliances as a matter of more on a mutual basis, established by the Philippines. high-tech cutting-edge technologies, military weapons, missiles and so on and so forth.
The Philippine side for its own, I think President Marcos, for its own political and personal agenda, has changed the policies previous administration playing a more active or more more sort of proactive way a role by playing that as a kind of a poem, for US strategy in the region.
That is something I think real cause or the root cause of the recent attentions that has been seen between China and the Philippines on the territorial dispute, but more seriously, regional tensions, particularly related to the South China Sea sort of thing.
Professor, let's dive a bit deeper into the status of Huang Yan Dao himself.
We know it has been China's inherent territory since ancient times.
China was the first to discover and name the island, then include in its national territory and exercise sovereign control.
But after World War II, the Philippines was among the earliest to intrude into the South China Sea. and has long conducted unlawful activities in the area.
So how do you view the Huang Yan Dao issue? from a historical perspective.
Yeah, as you rightly said that Huayen Dao and its adjacent water has always been under the Chinese jurisdiction has always been China's territory.
China has all the as strong as the historical and certainly legal ground to support China's claim.
And again, that evidence, historical ground as can be traced. as long as I think 2000 years, particularly I think the, Yuan dynasty, which I think that was 13th century.
But the China's exercise, administration jurisdiction over that part of the island. the Ming and Qing dynasties.
So very strong historical and legal ground.
And the Philippines has, as a matter of fact, When it achieved independence, I mean, the treaties and other legal documents, that's never I think touched upon that issue.
As a matter of fact, the Philippines started to make its claim on the Huang Yingdao. has not until 1997.
So it's not a new claim. And of course, And it's legal ground in terms of either talking about economics sort of exclusive zone, another argument, not to mention the latest 2016 and the illegal so-called arbitration. has only exposed the illegality and no evidence us to support that claim.
So we are talking about not a kind of disputes that have been very long rather It's a kind of a latest sort of development mostly. has been provoked by the geopolitical factors very much related to the United States, will that be China, and also I think the internal, political dynamics in Philippines as when President Marcos, Bombo Marcos, comes.
Professor, one last question. Looking back at the disputes between China and the Philippines over South China Sea islands, Media analysis described China's approach as resolute yet measured.
How would you assess China's restraint and considerations in handling such incidents with its neighboring countries?
That's a great question. I think the question relating to China's sovereignty, territorial integrity, maritime rights and interests.
China's position has always been rather large, and there's no room, no chance to Having said that, China has always been ready and advocate for a kind of a peaceful diplomatic sort of solutions.
I think China's disputes with Philippines not an exception.
As a matter of fact, as I said before the change, of the positions or the shift of the policy of the Philippines, VW China on the question these maritime territorial disputes.
China and the Philippines has worked together making progress on this regard. by working out various kind of arrangements or agreement, even on the question latest sort of ground of tensions and particularly into the subcontinent. resupply issues.
China has been working sincerely, working with the Philippines.
I think the message as you rightly said is that the measure attitude has to be balanced or have to be taken into account with China.
And the Philippines should not take China's measurement. measure this attitude for granted or as an excuse to provoke to manipulate that for its political gains or geopolitical uh sort of strategies that is a very strong and clear message china wanted sent to the Philippines and the other sort of states, which may have similar agenda by challenging China's or undermine China's.
That was Dr. Rong Ying, Chair Professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
Coming up, China to provide interest subsidies on personal consumption loans for a one-year trial This is the road today.
We'll be back after a short break. You've been listening to World Today with Mika Anna in Beijing.
Let's turn to China's economy. China is providing subsidies on personal loans to spur consumption.
Starting next month, shoppers will receive a 1% interest subsidy on loans up to 50,000 yuan. or 7,000 US dollars.
Eighteen national banks and five online lending platforms including Tencent's WeBank and Alibaba's Alipay are participating.
The policy supports a wide range of spending covering cars, travel, education and health care expenses.
So for more on the new measures, joining us on the line is Professor Liu Baocheng.
Director of the Center for International Business Ethics at University of International Business and Economics.
Thanks for joining us, Professor. It's always been a pleasure.
Professor, this is the first time the central government is offering a one percentage point interest subsidy for personal consumption loans. covering daily spendings as well as key sectors such as automobiles, culture, and tourism.
Why introduce this policy at this particular moment?
Such a subsidy reflects the government reading over the economic growth structure.
For example, in the first half of this year, China registered 5.3%. for its GDP growth.
However, the retail only achieved the 5%, which means the conception is highly subdued despite of some other measures.
And second reason is that the subsidy to businesses in order to lower the price has occurred some of the fraudulent behaviors So the direct subsidy to those home households is there to reduce such sort of misuse of this type of subsidy. and also expected, more importantly, to shore up the confidence in the household conception. and particularly for those service-oriented areas. this will be able to help to rebound the Chinese consumption drive And by lowering such a cost for daily spending, like automobiles, culture, tourism.
It may help to unlock the pent-up demand. to support the target industries and boost the market confidence So, but right now I think a more decisive one is really how they can really trim off the existing debt of individual households.
So that may help quite a great deal instead of simply trial for one year.
Professor, help us understand how much real impact can a 1% point subsidy have in boosting consumer willingness to spend and reducing the cost of consumption.
I think it shows the government firm commitment to shift the growth structure in the Chinese economy by continually boosting consumption, such sort of reduction in the borrowing cost is expected to meaningfully improve the affordability for large ticket items and help those consumers to proceed financing, as less burdensome, particularly in those interest sensitive segments like automobiles, tourist packages as mentioned before, and the psychological effect cannot be ignored when government support is there to be continued to channel the direct financial savings especially if they are accompanied by campaigns from the banks and retailers.
So that may really shore up the consumers' spending momentum. however the ultimate boost will have to depend on the consumer's income expectations and their job security. and also on the government commitment to increase the social welfare support to alleviate the burdens of future spendings for those consumers.
Professor, earlier you mentioned the service sector businesses.
For them, the loans subsidies focuses on eight key areas, including catering and elderly care.
With its broad coverage and low-threshold approach, how will this help ease operational pressures? on small and micro service enterprises and improve the quality of consumption supply.
Well, given the Chinese demographic structure, catering and elderly care is a big market with large potential that needs to be tapped. a lot more of the small and micro businesses are targeting to this market to unleash such sort of demand.
And given that they are also facing the tight cash flow and limited access, to the affordable credit.
So such sort of policy will be able to lower the application threshold and provide large eligibility and convenience for those businesses to benefit from it.
It theoretically will help them to ease their operation cost and reducing the burden of rent, utilities and payrolls, So this type of financial space provided there to help those enterprises to maintain their service quality invest in their continuous improvement in the conception environment, and also innovate. they're offering.
So in the midterms, stronger and more resilient service providers can really deliver high quality and more diverse conception experience.
But we have to be aware of the fact that this, area is highly competitive and those businesses We'll have to really have a more holistic strategy to be able to win out instead of simply relying on such sort of support from the government.
Professor, earlier you mentioned China's economy posted a strong 5.3% growth rate in the first half of the year.
As consumption becomes an increasingly critical driver of China's economic growth, How far along is China in shifting its growth model from investment-led to consumption-driven?
Well, this is a very broad question because Chinese people, in terms of population, takes a little more than 17% of the whole world population, but are all manufactured. you know, contributes more than 30%.
So there's quite a level of disproportion in the reflection of such a sort of economic structure So the trend is very clear that a conception will have to be able to move up as the disposable income is there to be further increase the momentum of the individual households and now this measure will be able to help those households to be able to spend more.
Right now in the Chinese, the consumption contribution is Roughly 53%, that is still far lower then the average of those developed world, which is roughly at eighty percent so there is also a large gap that requires a very decisive move to shift the Chinese growth driver and also reduce those redundant capacity by also providing more of the social welfare to those people.
And also, more policy should be targeted to even off the wealth polarization among the haves and have nots.
And lastly, I think too, narrow the gap between the rural area versus the urban area in terms of their income, in terms of their mobility, and also spending patterns, is also something that's more effective.
Thanks professor for the clarity and the depth of your analysis.
That was Professor Liu Baocheng, Director of the Center for International Business Ethics. at University of International Business and Economics.
Chinese auto companies exported nearly 600,000 units in July. an increase of around 23 percent from last year.
New energy vehicles were driving the growth, Data from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers shows the exports of new energy vehicles added 10% compared to the previous months. and more than doubled yearly.
Since the start of the year, China has exported nearly 3.7 million vehicles up almost 14%.
For more on this, my colleague Zhao Yang spoke with Yan Liang, professor of economics at Willamette University.
So first of all, China's auto exports hit 575,000 units in July, up more than 22%.
So yeah, how do you interpret this growth, especially under the current global trade uncertainties?
And where are the main markets for China's auto exports?
Right, so I think what that demonstrates is really that China's automobile especially the new energy vehicles or NEVs are really competitive.
They really benefit from very durable industrial supply chain advantage. as well as new models, new features in the cars, and also really competitive pricing.
And all of this I think helped to boost China's auto exports.
And if you look at other industries in China's exports, In the first half of this year, lithium batteries, EVs, ships, electronic integrated circuits, all of these are really among China's top exports.
And so that very clearly demonstrate that as trying to climb the value added chain, These products that require technologies, require capital, require skills, and also large manufacturing capacities, are the ones that China finds itself really competitive in.
And so those are the products, just like automobiles are really marked China's export growth in the first half of this year. as well as in the recent trends in June and July.
Now, when it comes to the export markets, the major export markets for automobiles are Mexico, and UAE, Russia, Brazil, and Belgium Those are the top five destinations for China's automobile exports in the first half of this year.
And specifically for NEVs, Belgium, Brazil, UK, Mexico, and Australia, are among the top five.
So as you can see, European countries and also many global South countries are really the destination and that really welcome China's exports of automobiles and NEVs.
And as you mentioned, the new energy vehicles or NEV exports more than doubled in July.
So what is driving the strong overseas demand for Chinese NEVs?
Well, I think, as I mentioned earlier, the Chinese NEVs really have a lot of advantages.
So as you know, we know that China There are many competitive NEV companies that wrote out many models. that have very different price ranges going from the very affordable ones to the more high end ones.
They're also featured with enhanced safety, durable battery lives. and also many intelligent, I would say, features in the cars because All these EVs are not only with the renewable energies, but also they are really having a lot of intelligent features in the cars. like autonomous driving and also like many other features that really help to enhance the safetiness of driving, but also driver experiences.
So I think all of these are the reasons to really put China's NEV exports at a very advantageous position. especially in the global south countries that are transitioning into the green energy transportation system.
They see the Chinese EVs as reliable, as competitive and also with good quality.
And so I think all of these made China's NEVs very competitive and welcomed. in overseas markets, despite many of these tariffs various.
And with NEVs making up almost half of China's domestic car sales, are we seeing permanent shift in consumer preference?
I believe so. I think again, the very competitive models, the new models, that are the features of the NEVs and also declining prices that really help to improve market acceptance. especially when you look at China's price parity between the gasoline cars and electric cars. really helped motivate Chinese drivers in overseas markets many times, like in American markets.
The ICEs still have relatively price advantages compared to the NEVs.
But in China, that's not the case. So and then I think, you know, with a lot of charging facilities with many incentives as well, for example, the trade-in programs, I think all of this provide really strong impetus for the consumers to accept EVs.
And I think that's definitely a great not only because it's environmentally friendly, But also, again, all these NEVs, they are intelligent cars.
They allow drivers to gain a lot more you know, enjoyable experiences and safety-ness when they drive the cars around.
So I think this would also provide extra demand for these cars because people are when they have the ICEs, they now are changing to the new cars or they're starting to buy their first cars, they're attracted by the great price and also great features of these NEVs.
So I think all of this will help to boost demand from the consumers and also cultivate the stronger preferences for these kinds of new generation of vehicles.
For the industry we know that chinese automaker byd continued consolidating its lead in the nev manufacturing while more brands are joining the 10,000 units a month club.
So what do you make of that? Do you think the market concentration is likely to increase or Do you think there will be enough room for more NEV makers on the market?
Well, I think for automobiles, it does rely on the scale economy. meaning that the larger scale you're able to achieve, the lower the cost is going to be, And also with more sales, more revenues that would help to accumulate more capital to be invested in technologies and R&Ds.
And so that would allow the industry or the specific companies to thrive.
And so I think the tendency is for the market to be more concentrated And when you look at currently the Chinese market, the top five, BYD, Geely, SAIC, Chang'an and Tesla, They account for 60.9% of the NEV markets.
And the top four, they're all Chinese brands, of course, and they come for over half of the markets.
So I think that's likely to be the trend, that there are some companies, that there are some models of cars that would have more market shares.
Now that said, I think this is not necessarily a bad thing because we know that with many of the car makers in the market right now, there's very strong competition and a lot of the competitions are also manifested into declining prices. which on the one hand is good for consumers, but on the other hand, it also reduce the opportunities for some of these companies to make profits and to sustain in the business.
So I think the market trend is that companies will compete and try to survive in that market competition.
And I think more and more the competition will come from features of the cars, the quality of the cars, the intelligence of the cars, rather than a pure price competition. that is likely to be the trend going forward.
And that's why you're seeing companies are really trying to ramp up their R&D spendings.
They're trying to add new features to their cars.
They're trying to explore more markets, both domestically and overseas.
And so that would really help them to sustain the market share.
And so you're likely to see certain markets, certain brands and certain companies will probably really stay well in the market where the rest may have to find their own market niches.
But yeah, I think the trend is towards more market concentration. and also I would say more standardized and also healthier competition that does not rely on cut-throat price competition.
What do you think can foreign automakers learn from China's integrated NEV supply chain advantages?
What kind of cooperation could they have with the Chinese and EV makers?
Well, I think that's a great question. I think you're right, these Chinese NAV makers, they really have integrated the supply chain.
Meaning, for example, the most important component of NEVs, those are the lithium batteries.
Many of companies like the BYD and others, they have their own integrated supply chain, for those batteries to the softwares and to the car models and so on and so forth.
And they're also advancing very rapidly in the technologies.
For example, The whole car mold, they're also manufactured using, you know, very cutting edge technologies and so on and so forth.
And we also see that China makes strides in the battery technologies and that has been decades of efforts in the making.
So I think all of this would basically mean that China has already made a lot of headways and make a lot of progress in this NEV technologies.
And they are leading in many of these technologies as well as their market shares.
So I think that means other companies and other markets, the best way is not to try to protect them against the Chinese competition.
Rather, I think to embrace the competition, and try to cooperate with the Chinese and indie makers, I think that is really the way to go.
That was Yan Liang, professor of economics at Willamette University.
This is World Today. Stay tuned. Let's talk about how robots are getting smarter and looking more like us. humanoid machines that walk, talk, and even think a little like humans are now learning and adapting faster than ever. thanks to leaps in AI.
Take OpenAI for example, the chat GPT maker has unveiled GPT-5 claiming it can provide PhD-level expertise.
The OpenAI founder and CEO says the new model is significantly better than its predecessors.
Now that GPT-5 is in the hands of users, what kind of ripple effect could it have on the AI industry and how well you shape the way companies compete or collaborate on the future of artificial intelligence.
To unpack these questions, Tian Wei spoke with Xue Lan, Director of Institute for AI International Governance, at Tsinghua University.
Now let me ask you about your response to the latest development AI applications such as ChatGPT-5 and how they are comparing to some of the other models.
I think people are still testing, you know, testing how you know how to compare to others.
But I think it's great to see that there are always new versions of various models coming up.
And I think that's sort of fun to see. This seems to be an indication of some a strategic change at OpenAI.
I think we know that actually open source or closed source I think at the micro level, it's more of a company strategy.
Now, we're getting to the stage of where probably white application is going to happen.
So I think open source may have the advantage.
It gets easier to be diffused, to spread.
So I think that company may think about price, about what their strategy should be.
We have seen some rhetorical changes over the past few months when it comes to AI. for example, between China and the United States.
Earlier, after Deep Seek was born, the US administration official suggesting that has a wake-up call, quote unquote, against the competition on China.
And then a few months later, we have seen both the The Vice President of the United States suggesting, quote, fewer restrictions around the development deployment of AI and suggested earlier approach as to risk aversa.
So now we also see that the track tool dialogue between China and the United States, in which you personally participate, along with former Chinese Ambassador Cui Tiankai and a few others from the Chinese side, with your American counterparts.
So what exactly to you is the nature of this intertwined relations on artificial intelligence between China and the United States.
Yeah, I think here I think indeed, you know, I think, of course, we all talked about, you know, how AI can generate huge benefits for the human society.
But also we should not forget that I think there is also the potential risks that AI might bring in various aspects.
I think the Yash Banjo, the international task force, generally the report on AI safety.
And I think there are three kinds of AI safety As AI risks, one is more of the harm, you know, the intentional The harms are generated by intentional use of AI to produce problems.
And the second is more of a malfunction.
And the third is systemic risks. I think on the second one, there's potential challenge that if someday the AI is getting more powerful and getting out of control, And that's something that we are all concerned about.
So I think it's safety. despite the geopolitical competition, rivalry, whatever you call it, between the US and China.
But the AI system out of control, that's a common threat. we're facing as a humanity.
Bolsheviks in China back in the year 2023 already signed what they call the a Bletchley Declaration in which both countries have claimed that they are going to work together to deal with some of the earlier unexpected consequences you suggested, Professor Xue, about the future development of AI.
Now, can you tell us I mean, almost two years.
What do we see besides track two and also the UN advisory Commission, which has been established by the United Nations, any specific credible platform for real policy consultation to deal with now already widespread innovation that is coming every day, it seems, in the media.
First of all, I think there's not a wide consensus on the potential risks we are facing.
So even among the leading experts, that there are indeed people who strongly believe that we are getting very close. potential look at AGI and that might bring huge potential risks and there are people who don't necessarily believe in that.
So the doomsayers and the non-doomsayers in a way.
But I think in the national community, I think, Theo, this is something that we need to worry about.
And that's why the UN has this So I think various mechanisms trying to guard against potential risks and trying to see whether there's a potential a platform a certain especially you know a conference summit that um you know i think i can say tremendous progress and then now that we've already had the three summits And so it's a very active part of that, and so we see that.
But also, in addition to those global efforts, They're also bilateral between US and China.
US and China, there's an official Dialogue, you know, last May in 2024 in Geneva, there's an official talk on a safety issue, And as you said, track two dialogue has been ongoing.
And so I think all of those efforts, focusing on how actually there could be specific mechanisms being established to guard against potential risks.
There's one, I think, tangible effort in pushing that, which is grow out of the Bletchley Conference.
That is the AI Safety Research Institute's network.
And that part, I think it's potentially, there could be sort of technical efforts trying to establish some safety standards, testing methods, and implementation mechanisms.
But I think that is actually one possible way.
Congratulations on what has been achieved, but one has to ask that ultimate question, is the speed of developing the governance structure and consensus really catching up with the latest developments of technologies and coming up, churning out of apps. all over the world, applications all over the world.
I think certainly technology moves much faster than regulatory and then the governance systems.
I think there's no systems. I think there's no doubt.
So that's why I think for people who are working on the government side, working on the safety side, people are really really worried about and you don't want to you know to have a car without a brake getting on the road.
And that's what I think many of the people are talking about.
I think the AI safety research network Well, that's a very potentially useful platform.
But at the moment, China is not part of that.
And so China is hoping to be able to join that platform so that we actually can jointly develop those potentially standards and testing methods.
As a Shanghai the World AI Conference, China also proposed to have a new platform we have an international AI operation organization.
That was Jue Lan, Director of the Institute for AI International Governance at Tsinghua University.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today.
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I'm Ge'Anna in Beijing. Thank you so much for listening until next time.
