Hey weirdos, it's Ash here, ready to share a little secret.
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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
And it's a part two of BTK. It is part two, the long-awaited part two of BTK slash Dennis Rader.
Sorry, Elena's pregnant as fuck. I'm super pregnant and baby morbid is like threatening her arrival over and over again.
She's like, I'm coming. No, I'm not. I'm. gonna come no I'm not and I'm here yeah so it's been an interesting week and we really appreciate your patience you guys are Fucking phenomenal.
I love our listeners so much because not only do you understand what's going on, but you make me feel so warm and fuzzy.
Oh, you just do. You guys make me feel that way too.
Yeah. So I love you guys. So thank you for being so awesome through this whole thing.
And for waiting for part two, we'll try to make it as worth it as possible.
Oh, it's going to be worth it, sis. What's making it even more fun is I'll be having contractions throughout it.
Oh my god, I thought you were going to say that you were having one right now because before this she warned me and I was like, okay, just hold up your finger when you're having one so I can time it.
I'm on, like, I'm on labor watch. That's what I keep telling people.
It's true. Ash is, like, our go-to labor, like, take care of our kids, and take over for everything when I go into labor.
Auntie Ash, motherfucker. It's true. So she's vital to our survival right now.
I'm vital to most people's survival. Just kidding.
I don't really know that for a fact. You're vital to all our survival.
You are. So we just have a couple little things we wanted to touch upon.
I'm sure anybody who has social media has seen...
That we added another live show, guys. We sold out our Halloween Eve first show.
Which fucking knocked our socks off. Oh my god, blew our minds.
We had no idea. And so AS220, the main stage gallery where we're having our first show in Providence, Rhode Island...
Let us have another night. So we're going to be doing another live show on November 19, 2019.
It's going to be at 9 p.m. I believe the doors are opening at 830.
And it's going to be awesome. It's not going to be a Halloween Eve show.
It's going to be like a week before Thanksgiving show.
Oh, shit. Should we do like a Thanksgiving murder?
Yeah, a Thanksgiving murder. Tickets are 20 bucks. like the first show and you can get them on Eventbrite if you search Morbid A True Crime Podcast Live or You can go on to our Instagram and I posted a link in our bio to the tickets.
I also posted it on the other social media, so...
Go get your tickets and do it. It's going to be awesome.
You know what else you could do while you're on Instagram?
What else can you do? You could head on over to murderapparel.com. except Murder Apparel Instagram and then click the little URL in their bio if you want to go to the dot com.
Do it. Because they just released a new shirt for us.
And it's amazing. It is like a zombie dude.
I still haven't named him. I know. I want to name him.
Let's name him Murray. murray murray the morbid i like it morbid zombie morbid murray morbid murray okay so anyways if you want to buy the more If you want to buy the Morbid Murray shirt, you can go over to Murder Apparel on Instagram.
Click on the link in their bio. go to their Morbid section on their website, buy all the shirts, do all the things, and then use Morbid for 25% off at checkout.
That's M-O-R-B-I-D for 25% off. Woo! Do it.
We love murder apparel. Do it. You won't.
I think that's really all we had for business.
I know that Mindhunter is on Netflix now.
I haven't binged it yet, so I don't have any insights yet.
I still need to finish season one. I know, that's kind of blaspheming in this house.
I'm busy. I get it. You get it. I got John into it.
It's so good. Which is very exciting because John is very hard to get into shows.
He's very particular with shows. So we're going to start binging it whenever we have any second to ourselves.
I tried to watch it with a certain ex of mine who didn't want to watch it, so...
You can watch it with us. I will. Since I'm like literally the member of this household now.
And BTK is fantastic. I think featured pretty heavily in this season.
Well, shit. I mean, last season he was creeping around.
And you know what's funny? I did not time this with this release of Mindhunter, so...
Things like that just kind of work out for us, I feel like.
I know. It seems like everyone's always like, oh, good timing, guys.
And we're like, yeah, totally. Like for the Kurt Cobain episode, I forget what, I think it was like, Right around the anniversary of his death that we decided to do it, but not on purpose.
No. We are not we are usually not that like, you know, ahead of things, but we're going to pretend we are.
Yeah, so when we finally start talking about Mindhunter, I will have insights.
But I'm really excited about it. That's all I can say is that Cameron Britton is amazing and I can't wait to see him again.
Heyo. So let's dive into Dennis Rader. Part two.
Part two, kid. Alright, so when we left you guys off, we discussed his crazy childhood that was really not that crazy.
I was like, wait. But he made it crazy.
And didn't we talk about Murder Barnes? We talked about Murder Barnes.
We talked about Sparky Big Time. Who could forget that?
Even if they tried really fucking hard to.
I'm sure you all scrubbed your mind's eye to try to get that out of there, but it's never leaving.
Never. And we also examined his evolution into the kind of monster who would murder four members of a family in horrific ways.
We did. We did. Now, I just want to put it out there one more time because the source material for this episode is heavily coming from...
Catherine Ramsland's book, Confessions of a Serial Killer, The Untold Story of the BTK Killer, Dennis Rader.
It's amazing. This is the one I discussed in last episode, just in case you guys want to go get it because it's...
I mean, she goes so far into psychology because she's a criminal psychologist.
She's amazing. I love her. But she goes really deep into like her psychological like impressions of him and stuff.
So it goes way deeper than what I'm even going to give you here.
So definitely go get that book. Do it. And yeah.
So I just wanted to shout her out one more time because I really fucking love that book.
And most of it is written by the BTK killer, by Dennis Rader.
By the BTK killer. BTK killer. The BTK killer, Dennis Rader.
I think he meant the poetic strangler. The grot phantom.
Yikes. Because it was them corresponding through letters for and it's a lot of it is in his words.
So that's the best way to get these things.
So when we left you off we had discussed the Otero murders.
Which was so sad. Really terrible murder.
It was his first foray into murdering people. which is a big bang to start out on.
Big foray. Didn't go exactly how he planned it.
We saw how sloppy that whole thing was. And he left the fucking, what was it, he left the knife outside?
Yeah, he left the knife outside. I mean, like, there was no gas in the car, even though they told him there was no gas in the car, but for some reason he still tried to steal it.
It's just... He was a wreck. He was a bumbling idiot.
And he didn't expect Joseph Sr., the father, to be home that day.
But he happened to be home. Now, unfortunately, Joseph, Julie, Joseph Jr. and Josephine were not discovered by the police.
Who discovered? They were discovered by their other family members.
15. year old Charlie Otero, 14 year old Danny Otero, and 13 year old Carmen Otero.
Oh my god. Yes. The surviving children of Joseph and Julie Otero were the ones who found the family the way that Dennis had left them.
That is the most horrific thing. Yes. Now, the oldest child is Charlie Otero.
At the time, you know, he was a really good kid.
He was a straight-A student. He was super popular.
Like... He was just a good kid. Everything was going well for him.
He had plans after school. He was going to go to Wichita State University.
And he wanted to follow in his beloved father's footsteps because all these children talk about their parents, best parents ever.
Like... They looked up to their father.
That just made my heart hurt. Joseph Otero was a master sergeant in the Air Force at one point.
I believe he was retired at this time. And that's what Charlie wanted to end up doing.
He wanted to go in the Air Force like his dad.
Are you going to tell me something really sad about Charlie?
Charlie had a rough go at it, but that day...
Charlie was actually the last of the three kids to get home.
But he bore a lot of I mean, they all bore the same amount of weight, but being the oldest, I think he bore just a different kind of weight.
He walked up to the home after school and he said he immediately noticed that the garage door was open and his mother's car was missing.
Uh-huh. This was weird to him right off the bat because his mom was that welcome back home from school mom.
She was always there. She wasn't late. She would always be there.
So he was like, what's going on? This is so fucked up.
Yeah. Then he went around to the backyard and he saw their dog, Lucky, was out there alone in the snow.
He's like, who the fuck did that? Exactly.
And remember... I think last episode we discussed how they didn't want to put the dog out in the snow because he didn't do well in snow.
Right. Again, he was immediately like, who put the dog outside in the snow by himself?
Like, what is going on? Right. So again, he's already like, something is strange.
There's alarm bells going off. He went inside and things had a strange vibe right off the bat again.
He said he saw his dad's wallet was opened.
The contents were strewn all over the counter.
His mother's purse was the same way, turned upside down, contents everywhere on the counter.
Oh, God. That's not a good thing to see when you walk in.
That's never a good sign. Because he also said, not only is that a weird thing to see to begin with...
But he also said his mom kept a very tidy kitchen.
Right. And this just wasn't anything that would have happened here.
Like they wouldn't have dumped their shit all over the counter.
So he said this was immediately troubling.
Now if this isn't bad enough, then he hears his two siblings, Danny and Carmen, calling to him from one of the bedrooms.
Oh God. And they said, so they had come home before him.
Yeah. And they said, I think it was Carmen who yelled, come quick. mom and dad are playing a bad joke on us oh god she was only 13
Oh my god. Charlie ran to his parents' room and immediately saw his father lying on the floor by the bed. bound at his wrists and ankles with cord, with a belt around his neck.
And remember, he had bitten through the bag.
His mother was on the bed, also bound at the wrists and ankles with cord, and had clothing line around her neck.
Oh, Jesus. And I mean... At this point, this happened in the morning.
When you strangle someone that is not a, they don't look the same.
So he saw his parents in horrifically grotesque ways.
I can't even fathom it. I really can't. That's so horrible.
They tried to call the police immediately, but the phone lines were cut.
Oh my God. So Danny ran to the neighbor's house and the neighbor called the police.
Now, remember, Joseph Jr. was in another room and Josephine was in the was down in the basement.
Luckily, and I hesitate to say luckily in anything to do with this, luckily they didn't see their siblings.
Well, and because Josephine was in a really rough position.
If they had seen Josephine, I don't know how you come back from that.
To be quite honest. I don't know how you come back from seeing your dead parents, but especially... But Josephine was just... hanging is a very jarring thing to see and he left her in like such a crude way yeah and he i mean yeah exactly that's exactly the way to describe it's just crude and it's awful So apparently when the police showed up, the three kids were just on the front lawn sobbing.
Oh, God. That's like the worst. Which I also am like these police officers.
I can't imagine. First of all, seeing these poor kids.
And then second of all, having to go into that scene.
That's a rough scene. Charlie told the police that they had found their parents.
Yeah. But he said... I don't know where my other siblings are.
They must not be home. Right. So he had no idea.
Oh, my God. Yeah. Obviously, the police ended up finding them in the house, and unfortunately, this experience...
Definitely affected Charlie in an immense way for a while.
What happened? There's actually a ton of television specials and articles and interviews with Charlie that he's given about this whole thing that go like really far into his life and the events that happened after this.
It's like really tragic, but he's also really inspiring because he has been able to work through it and turn himself around from the trauma.
But, like, in particular, there's a really good, like, in-depth... long look at Charlie's life in a, I think it was in Reader's Digest, and it's by a guy named Kenneth Miller.
He did like an in-depth look into Charlie's life.
I think it's like eight pages long. Oh, wow.
And, I mean, he, you know, went to jail.
Oh, really? found himself homeless at one point.
He had a couple of kids, but then he... Didn't have any contact with him for a little while.
It was just... He was living a very, like, just terrified, paranoid life.
Because for a while... How could you not?
You have to remember for a while they didn't know who did this.
Right. So they were just like, is this somebody going to come after me, too?
Like they killed him. They tried to kill my whole family.
So he lived this hard, like, you know, super paranoid life.
Not being able to really like function. And then he ended up just like turning. turning that shit around.
Good for him. He, like, is in contact with his kids.
His kids... Say he's like the greatest father.
It's really like inspiring to read his story.
So if you want to read more about Charlie Otero, I'm telling you go.
You can read that Kenneth Miller in-depth thing in Reader's Digest.
Or I think there's like stuff on Netflix about him.
He's done a ton of stuff. I want to watch something.
Yeah. At the time, he said, Charlie's quoted as saying, quote, I hated God for allowing this to happen to my family.
He was like very active in the church. His family was.
Yeah. And he said, quote, I lost my religion the minute I saw my mother lying there.
I mean, that'll do it. Yeah, if anything's going to do it.
And when he talks about his parents, he said, quote, my father was really outgoing, a jovial kind of guy.
And my mom, a very caring, loving Catholic woman.
She was a mother first, you know. So that just gives you an idea of who Julie and Joseph Otero were.
Now, switching away from the family, after committing the Otero murders, Dennis went...
Into the woods, he burned his sketches he made before the murder, because remember, this little fucker doodles all over the place.
What a weirdo. And he burned his plans because he wrote down all his shit.
And any other evidence like the rope he used, the cord he used, anything he brought back with him, I mean, the gloves, anything.
He burned it all. Now, he did this because he was kind of a savant when it came to serial killers and he had studied so many other serial killers.
Yeah. and their mistakes, that he knew he had to burn the evidence because other killers had kept shit and it led to their discovery.
Right. So he was like, as much as I want to keep all this and reminisce on it, because he is one of those killers too that does like to take trophies.
Right. But he tries to be very specific with the trophies he takes.
Maybe like minimalistic. Yeah, very minimalist.
You know Dennis. Now, he goes from this, where you're like, okay, you're doing your due diligence as a dick.
Yep. But then next he records the entire event in his journal.
Okay, you're a fucking moron. Because Dennis has a moment where he seems brilliant, like burning all the evidence.
And then he immediately turns around and records the event in great detail in a fucking journal.
Like, that wouldn't be evidence. It's like, Dennis.
Like, you just fucked yourself. Dennis. Dennis.
I mean I'm glad. I mean the dumb is very strong with this one.
Very strong. Runs deep. Runs so deep. So in this journal is actually where he started discussing with himself.
Of course. Had to name himself BTK. Shut up.
In the journal, he started being like, you know, I burned them, I tortured them, I killed them.
Maybe I should be called BTK. I don't know.
I need an identity. I'm a serial killer now.
Like, he's like... He's like a loser. A teenage girl, but like in serial killer form.
Oh my God. He's the Regina George of serial killers.
He is. It's like his burn book. Wow. Wow.
Another Mean Girls quote. Another Mean Girls reference.
I don't know if this is a good thing that we're connecting this so much with it, but we're doing it.
I have to. I have to lighten it on myself.
And you know what? The pictures it brought forth, guys, you did not disappoint.
Now I'd like to see Dennis holding the burn book.
Thank you. And goodbye. Now, I love that I just demand sketches.
I'm sorry. That was so rude. I'm like, now give me your best shot.
Give me this. Like, Jesus Christ. But you guys did such a good job.
Those are fucking awesome. You guys are amazing.
So this is also where we're going to get dark for a second, so...
Because we weren't already fucking dark.
We're going jovial for like a second back down to the shit.
You know how it goes over here at Morbid.
Yeah, we go from one end to the other. This is also where he wrote down that he had actually envisioned... enslaving the entire four members of the family.
But you want to do that in the afterlife.
What? Yeah, he was going to enslave them in the afterlife.
And he said... What is that? How? This is just his fantasy.
Like they all go to the afterlife together and he gets to do what he wants with them.
This man is dark. Like, he told police that he said that Joseph Sr. would have been the bodyguard.
Julie would bathe and serve him. And the children would be, trigger warning, his sex toys.
Okay, that's gross. He said, yeah, he's disgusting.
And he also told Catherine Ramsland that Josephine...
She reminded him of Annette Funicello, the Mickey Mouse Club girl.
Oh, shit. Who he was obsessed with. Yeah.
Yeah. So he did, like, connect those two things back, which I'm like, oh, God.
Wow, what a fucked up individual. He's so beyond. that's just that yeah i don't even know what words to describe that and it's like how the Where the fuck are you going from like enslaving a family in the afterlife to being like, she reminded me of Annette Funicello from the Mickey Mouse Club.
What? Where is the parallel? What, sir?
Like, I don't understand. And you know, do you know what?
I don't want to. understand i'm so glad i have no understanding of dennis's world same very glad about that super stoked Now, the next step for Dennis was to wait for all the publicity to come.
Oh, goody. Because that's what he's really excited about.
He's a lust killer, so he is definitely into the murder and torture and sexual aspect of it all.
That's his jam. But he's also a narcissist.
And he loves credit and attention. Great.
Loves it. And another little side note that they mention in the book is that In preparation for his next, you know, trolling and murder, he was like, you know what?
I got to strengthen my hands a little bit.
Because he said strangling people to death is not easy to do.
Yeah. And he was like, I thought it was going to be easy.
You see it on TV. I thought it was going to be super easy.
Yeah, everything's easy. But it was super... It was harder...
It was harder than he thought. And he also didn't want everybody biting through the bags again.
So he was like, I got to make this quicker.
He doesn't, by the way. He doesn't get better for a long time.
I don't know if he even does ever get better.
He kind of bumbles his way into every murder.
So what did he do to strengthen his hands?
Do I want to know? Well, so what he said, and this is in his own words in letters...
I saw in a movie about a minotaur, which is what he calls serial killers, by the way.
That's stupid. toughening up the hands.
I had sports balls at home work in vehicles to practice and exercise my hands.
I do have large hands. Exercise with a handball helped blood circulation and to keep the hands fit.
Who thinks of that? And also, again, just doing what every other serial killer does.
He does nothing unless he's looking at what other serial killers are doing and being like, I need to do that.
He wants to fit in. He is that dude walking up to the lunch table and Ted Bundy yelding, you can't sit with us.
He is Catty Heron. He is. So I just thought that was interesting that he like took the time after this first one to sit there and be like, I need to strengthen my hands.
So he just like squeezed sports balls. I mean, who knows?
That's so strange to me. Like maybe he just had a stress ball and he was like, this will do it.
Right. That's what I'm picturing. I mean, you can strengthen your hands.
You can strengthen anything. yeah that's just like so wild but like like and stupid like who thinks of that Come on, Dennis.
You think that you would just want to strengthen your arms.
You would think. But he's looking at it like, no, it's my hands that I'm using.
And it's like, oh, yes, your arms have nothing to do with this.
Don't worry about it. They're not connected to your hands in any way or.
Yeah. Help them to do anything. You dumb Dennis.
Oh, Dennis. You dumb Dennis. You dumb Dennis.
All right. So many accounts and professional opinions, including that of Ramsland. and also criminal psychologist Eric Hickey, who wrote the book Serial Murderers and Their Victims. say that Dennis likely had paraphilic disorder.
What's that? Now... First of all, it's important to remember that not all paraphilias are illegal or criminal.
Just want to put that out there. Paraphilia.
But paraphilic disorders are basically...
Very, very intense, sexually arousing fantasies that are recurrent.
They're consistent. They happen all the time.
You can't stop them. And they are fantasies that surround...
Kind of, like, really fucked up shit. Oh, great.
Like, strangling... dabbing watching someone die like this isn't like fetish stuff or BDSM or anything like that.
It is very different. I want to be very clear about this.
Paraphilic disorders are when you are a lot of the times they're very extreme where you want to hurt someone to get.
Oh, that's awful. That's, like, really horrible.
Yeah, and to suffer from that, I can't imagine.
Well, and then, so that's one part of it.
One part of it is these... It's these really intense fantasies about very bad things like stabbing someone, watching them die, watching them suffocate.
Can that just happen to anybody? Well, usually, I'll get into that in actually one second, but...
The other side of this involves things that, like, people, they'll fantasize about inanimate objects, like shoes or underwear.
Things like that. Things that aren't really going to do much.
That's fine. You can fantasize about whatever you want as long as it's not...
Yeah, fantasize about a shoe. It's fine.
Fantasize about shoes and underwear. That's fine.
But then it goes into like... Children.
Nope. And other non-consenting adults or humans.
And it just gets, it's like it fluctuates between being it's fine, it's not.
OK. You know, I mean, there's a very dark side of this and a very totally fine side of this.
That's just like whatever. You like shoes.
That's cool. but you want to fantasize about children that's not cool so it's like there's two very potato potato sides about this He obviously had the part.
Actually, he had a little bit of both because he was very into like touching women's underwear, touching things of women's.
But then he also liked to watch people strangle to death and die.
And he liked that part of it. And it always got him off.
This whole thing was about getting Dennis off.
No, it was about sparky big times. It was about sparky big times.
And... This disorder usually begins pretty early in life, and then it just kind of grows and grows as adulthood happens.
So the disorder causes fantasies to become this like overwhelming part of this person's life.
The person who suffers from this disorder has trouble focusing on anything else but these fantasies.
And a lot of times they will get darker and darker if they feed into them.
Mm-hmm. And if they don't feed into them, they'll get darker and darker.
So you're fucked either way. Now, oftentimes, just fantasizing can stimulate... and arouse somebody who suffers from paraphilic disorder enough to satiate them.
Just the fantasy will work. Like you don't have to act on it.
They don't have to actually do anything crazy.
But in the case of Dennis and in another killer... who we'll talk about at some point, Jeremy Brudos, they had very distinct paraphilias. that they couldn't just stop at fantasizing with an inanimate object or something like that.
They had to bring a much darker element into it.
Like Jeremy Brudos had a very serious foot and shoe fetish.
Which is fine. Yeah. And this likely happened when he was a child.
And again, we're going to cover him in depth somewhere time soon, but...
Basically, what happened was when he was very young, he found like a sexy pair of high heels.
And his mother made him dispose of them and kind of humiliated him about it.
And she also kind of fused... sex and shoes bad and shoes like all together and So it just, like, totally fetishized this experience for him.
And it made him end up being... Really fucked up with it.
And he ended up murdering women and keeping their feet.
Oh. I thought you were going to say he kept their shoes.
Yeah, he kept their shoes too, but he also kept feet.
Whoa. So... In the case of Dennis, the same kind of thing happens.
We don't know what happened because Dennis attributes literally every single thing.
To him becoming a serial killer. So it could be any number of little things.
Well, he got kept in for recess, so. And he had an ear infection, so maybe... He stubbed his toe one time.
You just don't know. But you could connect the fact that when he was little, he said he used to like to...
Touched silk a lot and he liked his mother's, you know, silk nightgown.
And then he became very into like women's clothing and all that good stuff, like touching it while he was doing things.
But he could have just stopped there. Right.
But he didn't. Right. So it's just a... I don't know what exactly pushes somebody into not stopping there, but...
That sucks. Now, lust murder, which is called erotophonophilia, is what Dennis is classified as.
He's a lust murderer. Okay. This is when someone's just straight up aroused by murder.
Great. Like, it's not like we're all like, oh, I'm very interested in murder.
Like, no, this is... Like, he literally...
He needs to murder people to jack off. He has a sparky big time when he's watching someone be murdered.
Oh, wow. It's like the it's the whole act.
It's watching the person die, watching them suffer.
All of it. Wow, the human brain is so wild.
And these kind of killers, lust killers...
It's all about fantasy, which goes right along with the paraphilic disorder.
So it's like his whole world is just one big fantasy world.
Right. But not like a fantasy world like I play Dungeons and Dragons and it's great.
Like I have a good active fantasy world.
No. No, it's a lot different. His is real bad.
So, and actually, in his own words, he said, quote, my fantasy dungeon...
This is his fantasy. Okay. Would be a silo next to a barn.
The murder barn. Murder barn. Murder barn.
With different levels of torture chambers.
It would have wooden beams like castles of old.
The person would have straw or hay for a bed.
At the top would be a BTK den. a computer desk, a drawing board, and files.
Now the question, would I have ever designed or built such a monsterly idea?
If I were rich and younger and a lone wolf, maybe.
The fantasy farm was along Highway 50 from Newton to Florence.
Take a castle, Dutch windmill, sawmill, and silo, and you have a BTK dungeon.
In my, quote, retirement, I was going to build my fantasy silo.
So not only does he have a murder barn, but he has a fantasy silo.
Wow. From early in my teens, I also used our basement for auto asphyxiation by hanging myself to achieve climax.
So that's... So this is where his H.H. Holmes murder barn fantasy... comes to life and honestly like yeah you yeah you could totally build that Like three fucking levels of like torture chambers in a murder barn.
Are you even handy, Dennis? You had to strengthen your hands.
Totally feasible. What he doesn't understand is that Holmes was an unfortunately brilliant scammer and insurance fraud professional.
Who used those skills to build his huge, crazy murder castle.
Right. And he does not have those skills.
It's like, I'm sorry, Dennis. He just sees the top hat and the twirly whirly mustache.
And he's like, that's me. I'm a man about town.
Like, that's what he thinks he's going to be.
He's going to be. I think he. H.H. Holmes.
A man about town. I'm a man about town. And he's twirling his cane and flipping his mustache.
You know all that. So now that word, so again, like we said before, after I got into all the paraphilic discussion, Dennis is looking for publicity.
Right. He killed a family of four. He wants to know that everybody's... Is anyone going to talk about this?
Yeah, he's like, come on, give me attention.
Hello? Now, that word of the Otero murders was starting to get out.
And he started devouring just everything on TV and radio about it.
Then he started collecting newspaper clippings and stuff about it.
And he used this to begin his first, quote, hidey hole file.
No. Yep. He's like, I'm going to put it in the hidey hole.
Like, I don't know if you thought Dennis was going to get cooler.
He's like such a nerd. But he doesn't. Not in like the way that we're nerds.
No, he's an excruciating dork. Yeah. Do you remember Minkus from Boy Meets World?
He's like Minkus if Minkus was a serial killer.
Yeah. Same glasses. Yeah. It's Minkus. He's a homicidal Minkus.
Wow. I mean, we're just blowing the lid off.
Now I gotta watch Boy Meets World. Sorry.
Well, and that's so these hidey hole files were where he kept all his like all the paraphernalia that he collected.
Don't touch my hidey hole. Don't touch my hidey hole.
Like, ew, Dennis. You're a fucking weird man.
And even that sounds like disgustingly dirty.
Yeah, hidey hole. sounds like you're fucking hidey hole like get the fuck out of here so apparently he kept these things because Like he's living in a house with his wife.
Right. It's like where are your hide holes?
Hide holes. Apparently he was keeping them I believe in a shed out in his backyard where his wife just never went.
Now, this whole Otero murder happened in January.
And he claimed that by February or March, he was already like itching for another one.
So he was like, boom, boom, boom. He had the fever.
Right. He said he had a few people that he was looking at as projects.
But, you know, because he liked to call his victims projects, you know, further make them into like these nothings to him.
And so he was following people. He was stalking people.
He was learning about people. You know, just being a fucking creep.
Right. He would legit at this time... He would legit prowl around houses at night and just watch what was happening inside the house.
So you would literally be in your house.
No. And Dennis fucking Rader. was standing in your fucking backyard watching you do everything in your house.
That's so scary. Tell me that's not terrifying.
And what he would do was he wanted to know if there was a male present in the home.
Because especially after the Otero murders...
When he didn't know that Joseph was going to be home, he did not want to be surprised again by a male.
Yeah. Because he was like, of course I can dispatch a male.
But I didn't want to have to. Totally. Of course, I'm this big top guy.
He's like, no, no, you're not. So it was during one of these like. creepy-ass prowling session, so he's just hanging outside people's houses, that he saw Catherine Bright.
Mm-hmm. She was at her home, and he spotted her out at the mailbox.
And he said, quote, she fit my fantasy profile.
Oh, good. A co-ed dishwater blonde in small.
Dishwater blonde? Dishwater blonde. That's so wrong. rude I was just gonna say please hairstylist tell me what dishwater blonde dishwater blonde okay so dishwater blonde is when you leave your toner on for too long and your hair gets that like mucky Like, like almost like grayish color blonde.
So he's like, that's a dick thing to say.
Yeah, no, it's wicked douchey. When he says it, it's like he's trying to say it like it's a nice thing and it's not.
I mean, I would never use the word dishwater to describe something nice.
Like when you say like... Like sunshine blonde.
Darker blonde or like whatever. Sandy blonde.
Golden blonde. Beautiful. not dennis dishwater blonde that's what you're comparing your head to dishwater that's what he's i bet he was i bet dishwater would get him off I was going to say maybe that was one of his things.
He could wash the dishes and be like, oh.
And he was like, dirty dishwater. Gross.
I'm into it. Sparky big time. Now, he ended up peering in her windows and discovering that she had either lived alone or just with another female.
And he didn't see a dog in the house. So he was like, ding, ding, ding.
This looks good. So he immediately locked in on this house and this victim.
He said he drove by a ton of times on various days, just like casing the place.
Gross. And he said he was psyched that it was like kind of set back a little.
And... That it was kind of by itself. And he was just feeling good about this one.
He was starting to get this one going. He was forming a plan.
So he was like, what I'm going to do is once I'm inside her house, I'm going to bring her to a bedroom, which he already knew where it was because he was already watching.
The thought of that is just fucked. Yes.
The thought of this fucking creep thing.
Just knowing every watching your every move for days and days and then knowing where your bedroom is.
Yeah. He said he was planning to tie her naked to the bed and strangle or suffocate her and tie her up by her hands and feet.
No, thank you. And he was like, that's my Saturday night plan.
I'm psyched. Just like an interesting side note.
Dennis really liked the number three and he likes things to be in threes.
I hate that. That's my favorite number. I know.
It's John loves the number three, too. Oh, that makes me angry.
Catherine Bright's street number. both i end her home address both had threes in them so he was super into it because she lived at 2317 east 13th street oh goody April 4th, 1974, 21-year-old Catherine Bright became the fifth victim of Dennis Rader.
I'm so sorry, Catherine. This fucking dork called this murder plan Project Lights Out.
I want to euthanize him. Honestly, I would expect nothing less.
Project Lights Out? Project Lights Out. What was the first one?
Did you name the first one? Project Little Mechs, remember?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was awful. I would expect nothing less from his fucking extra ass.
He had a, quote, hit kit. All prepared.
Because he liked to call his murders hits.
And he had a hit kit. That's not a hit, you idiot.
Because he's so badass and cool. Ew. And apparently he had class that day because he was in college still.
Like he was going to he was taking college classes.
Oh, really? Yeah. We talked about it in the first episode.
But he had class that day, so he went from class and he drove to the Kenmar Shopping Center.
And that's where he changed his clothing into clothes that he had already packed in his car ahead of time.
So it's like, for one thing, Dennis is very organized and prepared.
Yeah. But somehow still ends up being a bumbling fucking fool in the end.
Right. So he changed his clothes. He parked his car near the Wichita State University campus.
And then he walked to Catherine's home. Okay.
Because he was trying to be, you know, he was like, I'm not going to be as crazy as I was the last time.
Now, he was wearing leather golf gloves, one on each hand.
Okay. Because he you know he was like you know this seems like the best thing to use because I was using latex gloves before and they were hard to use.
No, just kidding. He saw a movie with Jack Nicholson acting as a hitman and he thought it was super neat that he wore golf gloves during being a hitman.
No. So he copied him like that. No, no.
Literally saw a movie with Jack Nicholson as a hitman wearing golf gloves.
And he was like, cool. And he went out and stole himself golf clubs.
I saw Cady Heron wearing army pants and flip-flops, so then I went out and bought army pants and flip-flops.
That's literally... Dennis Rader is in Mean Girls, I'm telling you.
We're blowing the lid off of this. Like, I'm alive right now.
Yeah. And that's just like a side note. What a fucking loser.
Sorry. That's just a side note because I was like, I can't.
No, I needed that in my life. So with him, he had a .357 Magnum. a colt woodsman, two knives, a ton of extra bullets, and he had a shoulder holster.
Because he saw that in the movie, too, probably.
Because what a cowboy. Yeehaw. Right? He also had two stocking caps on.
A black ski mask and a gray cap with white snowflakes on it.
That seems like too many hats. Well, in the gray one, he said it was in his, I think it was in his coat pocket.
And he also brought with him books because his whole ruse was going to be that he was going to knock on her door. pretend to be a WSU student and he was saying he was doing research and he was looking for a new tutor and is this the right address you know I mean he He was going to be like, oh, am I at my tutor's?
I'm trying to find my tutor. I'd be like, you're like 50 years old.
Why are you on my doorstep? Like, super cool, Dennis.
Was he even that old yet, though? Super cool.
I think he was 29 at this point. Oh, okay.
So she wasn't home when he got there. even her car was in the driveway but she wasn't home so he was like okay well i'm gonna break in anyway and i'll just wait for her oh my god which is a nightmare So he broke the back door into the kitchen and this is when he just kind of walked around her house and tried to figure out where he could hide to surprise her. she came no like fuck you dude and he said and again this is all getting scary and like horrible and then he's just a fucking and it still is but it's like he then he just bumbles it all up why what did he do he said while he was doing this trying to find like the perfect space No.
He heard a car pull in and saw Catherine with a male walking up to the home.
Oh, gosh. He obviously wasn't prepared for this once again.
Right. So he just walked right up to them when they came in the house before they had even closed the door behind them.
What? And stuck a gun in their face. So he just abandoned ship.
Like he was just like, I am losing my mind again.
So he basically used the same ruse he used on the Oteros.
He said he was a wanted man from California.
I want your car. So he just abandoned his whole plan and just went with this.
The male with Catherine was her brother, Kevin.
Oh, God. He brought them back to a back bedroom because he's sticking a gun in their face.
Yeah. And... And he even says himself, he's like, they probably he's like, that was dumb, like of me.
Because they could have just run right out the door.
Right. But they just luckily didn't. I just scared them enough.
And so they, but he brought them back to like, there was a couple of back bedrooms.
He used nylons and scarves from Catherine's drawers and, um, bound them he had kevin tie katherine's hands up and then he tied kevin to a bedpost And he brought Catherine into another room and finished tying her to a chair.
So now they're in two separate bedrooms.
Oh, that's fucking horrible. Yeah. He turned the radio up super loudly.
Oh no, that stresses me out so much. It is always such a terrifying detail to me.
It is. And I don't know if it's like just because I fucking hate loud noises, like loud noises stress me out.
Well, it just adds to the anxiety of everything.
It really does. And he wanted to use it to drown out any sound, obviously.
And then he planned... That he was going to strangle Kevin so that he could get rid of him right away.
And then he was going to be able to take his time with Catherine.
That was his plan. Now he started strangling Kevin, but Kevin broke his bindings and started fighting him.
Dennis pulled one of his handguns out and literally shot Kevin in the head.
At this point, Dennis is like, cool, that's done.
So he casually goes back to Catherine and tries strangling her, but she's now breaking free and fighting back too.
Now, while he's trying to fight with her and trying to strangle her, he hears Kevin moving in the other room.
What? Dude is up and ready to go again.
Yes, Kevin. Kevin grabbed the magnum out of Dennis's stupid ass shoulder holster.
That cool shoulder holster he had to have.
I wish you shot him. Kevin grabbed it and tried to shoot him.
But according to Dennis. Yeah. Dennis stuck his finger in the gun to jam it.
I doubt that. I'm skeptical of that. I think it just jammed itself because when Kevin describes it in a later article...
He says that the gun jammed, but I haven't found him mention that Dennis stuck his finger in the gun. i feel like that's so i yeah i think that's just dennis trying to like make out his chest yeah i stuck my leather covered finger in Yeah, because I'm that cool.
It's like, fuck you. You didn't stick your finger in any guns, dumbass.
No, you're a loser, Dennis. So in Dennis's words, quote, I got away and used the .22 and shot him one more time.
I tried a quick John Wayne Western shot.
No, I didn't aim. I just grabbed it out of my parka pocket. and fired towards his head.
He immediately fell down, which I'm like, you're fucking dumb.
Yeah, fuck right off. i believe i kicked him or tried to see if he was dead i didn't check for life signs i had hit him in the mouth apparently knocking out his teeth There was just a lot of blood and I thought he was down for good that time.
Why I didn't shoot him in the head, I don't know.
Possibly because of all the noise and confusion.
Dennis Rader is like Mr. Bean if Mr. Bean was a homicidal maniac.
I just want to put that out there for this next part.
Yeah. So Catherine is now screaming hysterically.
And in his haste, Dennis just pulls out an eight-inch hunting blade that he brought with him and starts stabbing her.
Oh my god. Which is not part of the plan at all.
No. He said, quote, I never had any intention of stabbing anyone, but it happened because I lost control.
That created a mess of blood everywhere, on my hands, pants, shoes.
I made a vow if I ever again had to confront to kill.
There would be no knife. I would only draw if I needed it to defend myself.
Then he says, quote, I had read in a detective magazine that if you want them to go down, you stab them under the ribs and hit the lungs or heart.
Jesus. Once again, I read in a magazine that they said to do that.
One time. Like, I fucking hate you, Dennis.
You're so stupid. everything he says he's like he's talking about this brutal awful thing and then he's like I read it in a magazine once that they said you should do this like I hate you This is a woman's life, you fucking shit flower.
So while this is all going on, this horrible chaos...
Kevin ran out the front door. Kev. Kevin.
Kev. This dodo bird Dennis let one of two victims run out the front door after he had already shot him in the head and mouth.
Multiple times. Like... Whoa. Wow. Whoa.
Whoa. Dennis is literally fucking Mr. Bean if Mr. Bean was a homicidal maniac.
He really is. Like, this is bonkers. Yeah.
It's ridiculous. So Dennis panics. Because everything's going according to plan, right?
And then Kev's gone. Kevin just ran out the fucking door.
And so Dennis panics, he cleans what he can clean, and he leaves Catherine very much alive. moaning and bleeding.
Before he left, he stole her license. That was stupid.
Because he was like, I want to put this in my hidey hole.
You're stupid. And he tried to steal one of their cars because her car was there and his truck was there.
He tried to steal one of the, I think it was the truck he tried to steal.
He took the wrong fucking keys. Oh my god.
Just makes sense for him. He took the wrong fucking keys.
So he tries and on his way out the door, he cut his leg on glass on the way out.
So he's bleeding everywhere. He left DNA and he just took the wrong keys and is trying to start a truck with the wrong keys.
Wow. Oh, and he left his gray stocking cap there.
Oh, shit. Fucking Mr. Bean. Wow. Now. Not smart, then. nope so he runs to his car because he's like i gotta get out of here so he just runs to his car And he gets home before his wife gets back.
He cleans himself up. He puts all the clothing and evidence in a bag.
And he hid it somewhere on his parents. I think like in his parents like shed or something.
That's fucked up. Yeah. He says, quote, in this interim, like after the Oteros, I destroyed a lot of magazines from my hidey hole stash.
Ew. and rid the house of all bondage paraphernalia.
I also moved my Otero hidey hole items. To my folks' home, my trophy items were now in a green tackle box with a good lock.
I often used my folks' place to hide items and also do big-time bondage when they were gone on vacations.
Wow, what a shitbag. And he literally calls it Big Time Bondage.
Like, capital letters. Big Time Bondage.
Big Time Bondage with Dennis Rader. Gross.
And he said he used to do bondage as a teenager in his parents' basement.
So it just like felt right. You know, memories.
Now, if you remember, Kevin ran out the fucking front door after getting shot in the head and the mouth.
What a bad bitch. He called the police when he escaped, and the police showed up to Catherine Bright's house right away.
Were they able to save her? She was still alive.
She managed to give them a bit of info, like she said what her name was.
She said she had been stabbed and she kept and unfortunately she kept telling them I can't breathe.
Please help me. Then she passed out. The officer that was on scene said that there were nylon stockings tied to her wrists. and around her ankles and a blue scarf and thin cord were tied around her neck.
When the officers searched the rest of the house, obviously the radio was blasting.
Her purse was strewn out, just like the Otero home.
That was like his thing. Yeah. And they also found two of Kevin's teeth on the floor.
Holy shit. Yeah, so he literally was shot in the mouth.
I don't like teeth. Yeah, I don't either.
There was blood everywhere. There was blood in the truck outside because Dennis tried to get in the fucking truck.
And... I can't imagine being... a police officer and like stumbling upon a scene like this it would just be pandemonium it truly would so they're i mean they're seeing all this chaos the blood on the truck outside blood on the everywhere it's just because he stabbed her blood on the everywhere blood on the everywhere guys blood on the everywhere Now, Catherine was rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately, she passed away during surgery.
Oh. She had 11 stab wounds. Wow. With an eight-inch hunting knife.
Ooh. Yeah. Most of them to her torso. I'm so sad that she passed away.
I know. Now, Kevin, her brother, was 19 years old.
Are you kidding me? Yeah. Like, for some reason, I pictured this guy to be like a middle-aged dude.
But 19 years old and he survived. He survived being shot in the head and shot in the face where the bullet tore. tore through his mouth, and took out two of his teeth.
Can you imagine, though, like you lost your... sister oh my god like survivor's guilt i can't imagine and knowing how hard you fought to try to save her yeah But like, you know what, Kevin?
You fought. You fucking fought. And she's proud of you.
He spent two weeks in the hospital and then was released like a fucking badass.
Because fucking Kevin, man. Because fucking Kevin, man.
Fucking Kevin, man. He gave a pretty good description of Dennis to the police.
He said he was white, maybe 25, 5'11". A big fucking loser.
He said he was kind of stocky, maybe somewhere around like 180 pounds.
And he had dark hair and a mustache. And he said he had worn gloves and had been, quote, sweating profusely.
Which Dennis later says, like, yes, I was sweating.
I was a sweaty beast. And it's like, yeah, because you are literally just a fucking bumbling idiot.
He was a fucking sweaty little bitch. Dennis said he was nervous immediately knowing that Kevin lived.
Yeah. And he said he thought about he said he found out where Kevin's family lived.
Shut up. And he thought about killing them and him.
But he didn't. And instead wrote a detailed description of it in his diary.
What? What? Like what? That's so creepy.
And he also took, you know, newspaper clippings and shit of this crime as well.
Uh huh. And put it in his hidey hole. Ew, stop saying that.
And wrote a little fanfic thing about Catherine in his hidey hole, too.
I'm busy that day. I can't listen. Because this dude is just like fantasy time USA.
Ew. So he started prowling again, broke into some homes, but nothing was really fitting.
And again, if you look at these two murders... mess hot mess express huge mess i mean he he planned these out they did not go as planned no So, so far, he's a fucking mess.
It's just not working out. So now he's trying to be a little more, like... particular with things.
And he's really over any males being present in these homes.
So he's trying to really make sure that there's no males.
Soon after this murder, these random dudes went to the police and started telling the police that they knew who killed the Oteros.
Because, you know, when shit like this happens, you always get these assholes who go to the police and are like, I know who did it or I did it.
You know, false confessions. And basically these guys were setting themselves up to become suspects.
This pissed Dennis off. really because he was scared they were going to get his credit he wanted his fucking credit Like, that's how crazy this dude is.
He wanted his credit. This is why Catherine Ramsland, who's the author of this book, this is why she's so fucking brilliant.
Because when she wrote him to get these like insane insights that she got from him for the book, She knew that catering to that side of him, that he needs the credit and he needs you to, like...
He needs to hear from you that, like, you need this from him.
You need this information from him. And she knew if she catered to that that he would just sell.
She could get anything. And he did. And this same thing can be said for the insights that this podcast Another profiler, Scott Bond, got for his book, Why We Love Serial Killers, The Curious Appeal of the World's Most Savage Killers.
Another good book. he knew that when he wrote Dennis, he had to appeal to his ego too, and he did.
Mm-hmm. And he literally made it seem to Dennis like he needed to gain something from him.
Like he was like, I need something from you.
No thanks. I don't need shit from you. Like, I need to gain knowledge from you.
That's what he was basically saying. Like, you need to share your knowledge with me.
Ew. That's what... No, that's what he was saying to Dennis to get this from him.
And it worked like a charm. Now, Bond says that one aspect of Dennis's psyche is that his narcissism, it's so blatant. that he's not even happy to call himself a serial killer.
He wants to be more than that. He actually says, I would kill men, women, and children without hesitation.
Most serial killers have a specific victim they target.
So he's trying to make himself like I'm more than a serial killer.
I don't even stop at one victim. Do you want a cookie or a medal, Dennis?
He wants something. And so he thinks he is more of an outlier or a legendary figure because...
He doesn't have any fucking scruples. Well, he's not.
I'll kill anyone. Like, I just kill, so I'm more than that.
So on October 22nd, 1974, after he found out that these guys were going to the police trying to get the credit, Rader called Don Granger, who was a member of the editorial board for the Wichita Eagle,
Little side note, for this whole series, I signed myself up for the Wichita Eagle online account. count did you really because I needed more articles and they like do the you know how you have to like sign up for it yeah but It's only 99 cents a month, kids, and it's a good newspaper.
I'm screaming. So if you want to read The Wichita Eagle, it's worth it.
And it's only 99 cents a month. Only 99 cents a month for an online access.
For the low price of 99 cents, it can be all yours.
They're not even sponsoring us. I just think they have great articles. if they sponsored us.
Wichita Eagle, do it. So when he called this guy Don Granger, he changed his voice and he told him...
If he went to the public library, there was going to be a letter that was inside a book called Applied Engineering Mechanics, and he said this letter would detail the Otero murders.
And it would prove that the guys that were saying that they did it did not do it.
Now, of course, Don Granger immediately called the police and was like, hey.
Some dude just called and said there's going to be a letter here.
Maybe you want to go check it out. Yeah.
So the police went and checked it out. In that book, they did find a letter.
Oh, shit. Are you going to read it to me?
The letter said... Those three dude you have in cut.
Now there's a lot of. He literally said dude.
Those three dude you have in custody are just talking to get publicity.
They know nothing at all. I did it by myself and with no one's help.
And that's all one word, one's help. So then he goes on to describe the Otero murders in pretty graphic detail.
Uh-huh. He tells them about like where he left the bodies, what conditions he left the bodies in, and he like gives things that only he would know.
Right. I'm sorry this happened to the society.
It hard to control myself. You probably call me psychotic with sexual perversion hang up.
Where this monster enter my brain, I will never know, but it here to stay.
How does one cure himself? If you ask for help that you have killed four people, they will laugh or hit the panic button and call the cops.
I can't stop it, so the monster goes on.
And hurt me as well as society. Society can be thankful that there are ways for people like me to relieve myself at time by daydreams of some victim being torture and being mine.
It is big, complicated game, my friend, of the monster play putting victims number down.
Follow them, checking up on them. Waiting in the dark, waiting, waiting.
The pressure is great, and sometimes he run the game to his liking.
Maybe you can stop him. I can't. He has already chosen his next victim or victims.
I don't know who they are yet. The next day after I read the paper, I will know, but it too late.
Good luck hunting, yours truly, guiltily.
P.S. Since sex criminals do not change their M.O. or by nature cannot do so, I will not change mine.
The code words for me will be bind them, torture them, kill them.
B-T-K. You see, he added again, they will be on the next victim.
He's so fucking lame that I literally almost like threw up and rolled down the stairs and then called the police to help me with the lameness.
Was he trying to sound stupid on purpose?
No, I think he just... To, like, throw them off?
I have no idea. Like, did he take an Ambien before writing that?
But... it's so bad i don't understand it's so bad he seemed tired He seemed tired.
He did. He seemed tired while writing that.
You know what, Dennis? That wasn't your best outing.
He's like trying to, like he's not using any plural words when he needs to.
I think he was also using a typewriter when he did it.
So maybe he just sucked at typing on a typewriter.
Wow. So this was when he said... This was his first public being like...
I'm BTK. Hey, guys. You can call me BTK.
My name is... What? My name is... So... These two... So they found that.
Yeah, which must have been truly something to find.
And they're like... Cool. So now we know we have somebody out there that obviously did commit this murder.
Right. Because he has, you know... information that somebody that's only at the crime scene would have.
Yeah. So between the Otero murders and Catherine Bright's murder, people in Wichita were...
Starting to fucking freak out. I would think so.
And so sales for home security systems started going crazy.
So Dennis got a job installing home security systems for ADT in 1974.
And he would like mess them up on purpose.
Like I'll give him this. That's terrifying and brilliant.
It allowed him, I mean, unprecedented access into all homes.
Yeah. He probably also got like a super gross thrill at the idea that these people were taking refuge in the idea that...
They were going the extra mile to protect themselves and possibly their families.
And here he is. the monster they are trying to be safe from, installing the system, knowing it inside out, and getting into their homes as well.
That would have made him the poetic strangler.
That would have. And that probably got him just going.
Every day of work was probably a great sparky big time day.
Sparks will fly. Now his coworkers apparently thought he was lame as fuck.
I believe it. Because one of his fellow ADT employees told the Wichita Eagle that, quote, none of us liked him.
He wasn't the kind of guy you wanted to get a beer with after work.
Which to that I'm like, yeah, probably. I love that.
So at this time, Dennis was 29 years old and his wife Paula was 26.
So they were still young. That's super young.
Their oldest son, Brian, was born July 26, 1975.
Mm-hmm. In 1976, he immediately started looking for hit number six. oh awesome so his wife was pregnant again at this point with their second child and And he was trolling because what else do you do while your wife grows a human?
I mean, anything else. What else? Go get her SpaghettiOs like John has done for you.
Yes. Shout out to John, man. For making me SpaghettiOs and buying me SpaghettiOs.
You make gourmet meals, but also SpaghettiOs.
Yeah, because for some reason I've really wanted SpaghettiOs while pregnant.
That's weird. I know. I ate them with you.
You did. I was going to say you participated.
Oh, hell yeah, I did. So Dennis didn't make anything happen in 1976 as far as we know.
But in 1977 was when he did find victim number six.
Wow. March 17th, 1977, Shirley Vian would be victim number six.
So he had actually had another victim in mind, but she wasn't home.
So Shirley had the misfortune of being completely random.
Oh, okay. After not getting into the first house, he was pissed.
Oh, good. So he was real pissed. He was all worked up.
He said, quote... But while I was walking away from the intended house and down hydraulic, which is a street, I saw a young boy coming back from Dylan's.
What a douchebag. So I used it to pretend I was looking for them.
I asked him if he had seen them. I knew he wouldn't know them.
He told me he didn't, but I watched where he went.
Now I wished I hadn't used that family picture.
And then he said, quote, what will they think if they read about it or hear it?
So he's more concerned, like, so he's having a brief moment of like, what if my wife and my child... know now that i used their picture in a ruse that's interesting that like he's like even What will they think of me?
Like, they'll think I'm gross. I bet they'll think that you're gross anyway.
And it's like Dennis. That's just the cherry on top of the gross sundae.
You... you used their picture to go brutally murder someone.
Right. that's gross that's a gross sunday i don't think it's just gonna be the picture thing i don't think so no So he went to knock on the door.
He had watched this little boy go to a home.
Sad. And he knocked on the door of the home.
And the boy and his brother answered. And Dennis said he was a private detective.
And he said he also was carrying a briefcase that had his hit kit in there.
Yeah. So he looked very official. And he immediately forced himself in.
Oh, no. On these two little kids. Shirley Vian, their mother, comes out because she's hearing this nonsense.
She was wearing a robe and a nightgown, according to Dennis, because she was homesick.
Aww. Now this is a really rough one guys.
I don't like this one. It makes me sad. I just want to put that out.
No kids are going to die in this. But they're there.
Yeah, that's really fucked up. That's like a whole new level of fucked up.
This is part of the reason why I fucking hate Dennis Rader.
I don't know how you couldn't. So in his words quote I told her I had a problem with sexual fantasies and I was going to tie her up.
I pulled down the blinds yeah like just no big deal I pulled the blinds and turned off the TV I said that I would tie up the kids first They would be okay if she would cooperate with me.
She was extremely nervous. I think she even smoked a cigarette.
Oh my god. The kids, who were six and eight years old, got real upset.
I said, this is not going to work. I was frustrated.
I decided to put the kids in the bathroom and shut the door we put toys and blankets in there for them Later, it was discovered, by the way, that there was a younger female child as well.
So younger than six. Oh my God. Who was also put in that bathroom.
So there was three kids, three of her kids in that bathroom.
Uh-huh. Mrs. Vianne helped me. She told the kids to do whatever I said.
I tied the door shut. The kids were still yelling.
She helped me to shove the bed against the door.
Then I proceeded to tie her up. He said at this point she vomited.
And he said, I think my being there had made her worse.
Yeah. You're probably right, Dennis. I'm sure it did.
You being there, imprisoning her young children in a bathroom while you attempt to tie her up and murder her, probably made her feel a little sick.
You're right. Your skills of observation are...
So she was part, he says, quote, she was partially tied when I got her a glass of water and comforted her a bit.
Oh, you fucking gentleman. And then he says, get ready.
This compassion runs in most of my crimes, and I see that in cold blood. as Smith, I believe, reties Mr. Clutter, asking him if he is cold, and then later on kills him without mercy.
In the Otero's house, I laid a coat or parka down for Mr. Otero, because he had been in a car accident and his ribs were still sore.
I originally had taped and tied all of them up, and when they complained about it being too tight, I re-tied them.
When I placed the bag over Junior's head, Mrs. Otero was completely upset more for him than her husband.
So I removed it to think things over. With Shirley Vian, I place the kids in the bathroom with blankets, toys, and books to try to comfort them.
Now why would I be so nice and then turn to murder?
I guess I use the victim's comfort zone to gain control and trust, and above all else, their ease.
So he's literally like, you know, it's funny because I can be super nice and like offer a glass of water or like put a pillow under them when I feel like, oh, they're uncomfortable. why do i do that and you think he's gonna be like maybe i have some compassion he's like no it just makes it easier to murder them because then they think that i'm a nice guy wow that's fucked up like that's like a roller coaster right there because at first i'm like what are you getting at like are you saying you have some kind of weird humanity no I thought that's where you were going with that.
I did too. When I first read it, I was like, are you going to sit there and try to tell me you have humanity?
No, he's not. He's like, this just makes things easier on me.
He's like, no, I just gain their trust and their comfort.
And then I can murder them better. It's like, cool.
That's even scarier. It's horrifying. It's horrifying.
To be like, okay, maybe this dude is just like going to do this and then go.
Because it would make you for a brief moment think like, can I get out of this if I just appeal to that?
No. No matter what you do to appeal to that, you're not getting out of it.
Oh shit. So then he apparently taped her hands behind her back and he said this was very exciting to him.
Okay, we get it, Dennis. And he tied her legs to the bedpost and he, I think he like roped all the way up her legs.
And then he said, what was left, I looped around her neck.
I put a bag over her head and I strangled her.
Jesus Christ. he also said that the kids were banging on the door screaming for him to leave their mother alone oh my god And he screamed back at them that he was going to shoot them if he didn't shut up.
If they didn't shut up. Oh my god. This is why I fucking hate Dennis Rader.
It's like, not only is he this disgusting piece of shit that murders innocent women...
He, like, involves kids. Yeah, I don't... He has, like, no... I mean, I'm not saying a lot of serial killers have standards, but, like, his are null and void.
Yeah. He said at one point he said that he fucking considered hanging those kids like Josephine.
Oh my God. But he said he didn't have time.
He's a fucking monster. He didn't have time.
Like what? Yeah. So he took her underwear and left.
And left her three kids motherless. Yep.
So and he and he goes into a big thing about how he liked to keep the victims underwear.
That was one of his things. and he would hide it at home.
That's where he would have his fantasies.
He would wear them to pictures of himself.
Yeah. and he said quote i would relive the day or start a new fantasy i would don the victim's underwear slips panties hosiery sexy housecoats Ew.
Yeah. And those are the pictures I'm talking about where he would like literally take pictures of himself dressed in like these negligees with wigs on and masks on and makeup and like bags on his head and shit.
That is dark. So dark. That is the darkest.
Well, the two sons of Shirley's, the six and the eight-year-olds, had broken out of the bathroom.
They broke a window, and they ran to the neighbors who called the police.
When they found Shirley, she was nude, face down on the bed.
Black electrical tape was wrapped over her arms and ankles. and a white cord was holding her hands behind her back.
Oh, God. Another white cord was wrapped around her neck four times and that's the one that ran all the way down her body oh my god yeah Now, unfortunately, when this whole thing came out, Dennis was worried.
He was like, those kids saw me. They don't know what I look like.
They couldn't really help with the description.
They were too young and they weren't... And they were too scared.
And I think they were too... Yeah, they were too... fucking traumatized right like beyond how did they fucking come back from that now Now, Dennis wasn't happy about this one because, again, it was messy.
It did not go the way it was planned. So he wrote a poem about it.
No, no, no. Because. All right. I got to hear it.
Because he's Dennis. Are you ready? A poem about Shirley.
Shirley locks, Shirley locks, wilt thou be mine?
Thou shalt not scream, not yet feel the line, but lay on a cushion and think of me and death, and now it is going to be.
That was the dumbest fucking poem I've ever heard.
It had minimal effort. I would give it a D minus.
I would give that like an F minus. That didn't even make sense.
That's a Z minus. And it was a ripoff of Goldilocks.
Yeah, Shirley Locks. Which, like, really, Dennis.
So, with that poem... We're gonna leave you for part three.
I have to be honest. I can't wait for this bullshit to be over.
I don't like him. I don't like this case.
I think he's a stupid idiot. I am disgusted.
I'm not even like... I'm horrified, but not in Toy Box Killer way.
I'm just like... No, that was a whole different... I'm horrified in like a... okay Dennis like you suck kind of way Dennis is just a whole ball of That's just wrapped with like excruciating dorkiness.
Just over... Just try-hardness. Yeah. But also evil fucking just depths of hell shit. weird but he's such a loser I can't there's just so much and when it comes to like the kids yeah That I just have no fucking patience for.
It's like he's already murdered kids ruthlessly.
And then these ones he was ready to. He was going to string them up.
I don't want to say that it's like worse that he didn't, but like, But he left them with this.
It's on almost like the same level either way.
You know what I mean? It really is. It's the same level of fucked up.
Like think about what he just left them with for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, like you will never, ever, ever be the same.
It's like they were literally. That's soul murder.
That is soul murder. That's straight up soul murder.
But you know what? I hope those kids are like thriving now.
I hope so too. I bet they are. and they can put up a middle finger and be like fuck you Dennis both of their middle fingers all of their middle fingers every single one all of them So we are on victim number six of 10.
I have four left. Four left. We're going to cover them all in part three.
Don't worry. We're going to wrap this up in part three.
And we're going to get into, so we'll get into his last four murders.
We'll talk about those. And we will also talk about the giant lull that he took between his last murder and reappearing.
Which is crazy. And... The amazing way he got caught.
So stay tuned because the third installment is going to be just like chefs kissed.
At the end. I mean, it's going to be rough up until then.
But once he's got got, it's amazing. You're going to get got got.
So stay tuned for part three. And hopefully that will be coming out next week. which will happen as long as Baby Morbid does not decide to make a grand appearance in the next week or so.
We said that maybe we'll record at the hospital but I don't think that's allowed.
I don't think that's allowed. And I think... your hospital nurse would not send you home with a child yeah I don't think they'd be like you know what CPS what's up we need to talk to you real quick yeah But there will be my mini morbid coming out in the next couple of days or a few days to what day is it?
I don't even know. it's like the eighth day I don't know yeah so next week My Mini Morbid will come out too as well as part three of btk as long as everything goes to plan with baby morbid so we will keep you updated on that Right now we'd like to thank some Patreons.
Yeah, because we didn't get to last time.
You have to come up with the fucking responses to their names.
Oh, man, with baby brain? All right, let's do this.
So first I'd like to thank Whitney Blair.
Whitney Blair, your last name has the Blair Witch Project's first word in it.
Wow. Your last name. fucking good job whitney thanks whitney i wrote your name down first because we were watching the hills there you go this thank you describes me and elena as humans yes Thank you, Whitney.
Thanks. Next is Mini Lesbatron. Ooh, Mini Lesbatron.
Thank you so much. I don't think I have to say anything about your name.
Your name is just, it just speaks for itself.
It's phenomenal. And I love you. And I appreciate you.
I feel the exact same way. Thank you, Mini Lesbatron.
Love you. Then we have Beverlocks. Beverlocks.
Get out of here with yourself. It's like Goldilocks.
Oh, my God. Beverlocks. Beverlocks. Wow.
You just tied this all together. Wow. things thank you for doing that beverlocks we love you then we have claire white claire white I love your name.
It's pretty. I love it. It's beautiful. It's just, it feels good.
It's pure. So thanks, Claire. I like it.
Thank you, Claire. We then have Katie Montefinesse.
Ooh, Katie Montefinesse. I'm going to finesse you a Patreon present this month.
I just wanted to say. And I'm tripping in Venice.
Exactly. So thank you, Katie. Thanks, Katie.
Then we have, I'm so fucking sorry if I butcher this, Evelyn Batista Gutierrez.
Ooh, I love that. Evelyn, you have a long, beautiful...
And just buttery name. You're vivacious.
You're everything. You're alive. You know what, Evelyn?
Thank you. Thanks, Evelyn. Thanks, Evelyn.
Then we have Emily Hayman's cook. Emily Hayman's cook.
I'll cook you dinner anytime, Emily, because you are great.
Do you think that it's like the chef of Emily Heyman that donated?
Yes. I think so. That's what I think. Thanks, Emily.
So thank you, Emily. And then I'd like to thank Kimberly Rodriguez.
Kimberly Rodriguez. You are probably someone who does great things.
I bet you are. You did a great thing by donating to us.
Exactly. That's what I'm basing it off of.
Thank you. You know what? Thank you so much, Kimberly.
Now I have a question. Do you think that says Jackie or Jacques?
That could be either. So Jacques slash Jackie Burris.
You know what? That's just a really pretty name.
It's beautiful. Either way we go with it.
I love it. And I want to thank you, Jackie or Jacques.
Thanks. Thank you so much. And the last person I would like to thank is...
Cat. Cat. So hot right now. With a K. Like Kit Kat, which are really yummy.
Do you know that I ate a frozen Kit Kat today?
It's like kismet. Kismet. So you know what, Kat?
Thank you so much. Thank you, Kat, and thank you to all of our other Patronuses.
We will get around to thanking all of you someday.
You are all beautiful. We are hammering away, and we love you.
And you'll be getting another bonus episode soon.
And keep your eye out because we're going to start putting together some... packages for you we are i just got new stickers in the mail for you and the new stickers are fucking dope Elena designed them, guys.
I did. Like, what doesn't she do? So if you want to donate to our Patreon, you can go ahead and do so at Patreon.com slash Morbid Podcast.
After you do that, hit us up on Instagram at Morbid Podcast.
Once you've done that, you can follow us on Twitter at... Amorbid Podcast.
And then you can send us an email all about it at... morbidpodcasts at gmail.com and after you've contacted us in every way shape or form you could try again in the facebook group morbid colon a true crime podcast and i'm telling you that group is the tips i love it After you have joined every group and tweeted everything and favorited every picture and blah blah blah blah blah You can go to our website and check it out because Alina designed that too.
And you can type in. morbidpodcast.com and have a nifty old time so we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you're btk yeah not so weird That you are Dennis.
That's so weird that you fucking wear gloves to a place of murder.
Because Jack Nicholson did it. Yeah, fuck.
Bye. Bye Dennis. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
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